Hey it is your favorite host in all of pod custom. Now for the rest of the year, I'm gonna be asking you to join us by becoming a member of reveal reveal is all about going deep, pulling on threads telling stories that matter for more than three years now reveal has been fighting a lawsuit. That's been jeopardizing, our very existence of restoring did about an organization called planet aid. Our story raises serious questions about whether international aid was actually reaching the people. It was intended to help and what's more, our story was truthful and we stand by it. We believe it is our duty to fight attacks like this. The fighting a lawsuit comes at a huge costs are legal fees alone totalled more than seven million dollars. Luckily, we have pro bono legal support to help our in house counsel, but it still takes significant resources, resources that should be used to do more public service journalists. This kind of investigative

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Skeletons in the closet and Emily was and a figure it all out. Guy who is in no Alaska way out the Bering Sea Coast and you can only get there by airplane to be the new director of the radio station. There can aware- and it has this super cheesy endearing sound ass. I love that our biggest Jesus, it's perfect barometer, the J Breezy about changing the real theme song. So anyway, what did you do up there? I spent most of my time reporting on things like subsistence hunting for bearded seal the anew, Pierre people, there call it hook and, of course, that one thousand miles led dog race, the idea or on the finish line is unknown. Northerly headwind, blue between thirty and forty miles per hour and scoured the baron

Andrew along the Bering Sea Coast as Brent says, used his scheme pole to help his dog team glow. And across the icy trial to clap yard. And I didn't stop kick in her sleep, honour or Neil. I guess I've been on a dogs laid in Alaska in February was so called out thrilling, but you know I'm a flood of wearing like to think about. It certainly will what does This have to do with the skeletons in the closet. Okay, so it all had to do with this guy who founded Canna when it's a catholic radio station in it. Started by a Jesuit priest, James Pool back in nineteen, seventy one he used the station as a studio pulpit You know it's not a disgrace to make mistakes, men and women, old and young just that.

After just a later and fry. That is a mistake. Rise start over this time naked. I heard about zones pools mischance. While I was working upon alarm, but I was mother, given any details a year after I left no. My saw this social media post one day and mention something about where the church was hiding. Him not kicked off my search through records about as a missions in Alaska. First, I knew to learn more about the Jesuit order. So I called this guy Patrick Wall. They become a Jesuit, so very rigorous process, sometimes are referred to as the your storm troopers of the roman Catholic Church, they answer only to the Pope and they have the most rigorous training programme. So it sounds like Patrick knows, a lot about the catholic church. He dies in its from first hand, experience

used to be a benedictine monk and an ordained priest he's no longer with the church. He knows how to navigate his way through piles of records. Some in Latin, it's really surprising to me, how meticulous they are about keeping it's an dating their signatures and all you have to do a little groundwork. Nonsense now rocket science Emily did a lot of great work. She spent a year and a half digging through church records in court documents she tracked down priests and peep who knew them all to find those skeletons in the closet and what de uncovered is a new chapter in the catholic church is continuing story of sexual abuse. It takes to some of the most isolated corners of the country. Communities in Alaska and the north West?

given the accused and from the judge with leaders who moved them around along the way Emily discovers have a church used. A college camp is too high priests, including father pool in plain sight, I have only seen photos of James Pool and in all of them he has a broad, constant smile and dark rimmed glasses people. Remember him as handsome and stuff Can a worm was his life street The radio station is a ministry also an educational vehicle to try to bring us the people, ideas that will help them helped themselves to move forward in what is so pretty difficult situation appear of one culture that has been overtaken and kind of swamped by another culture, so in their trying to help him hold again Tiana? When is a cosy place? It looks like a house and its always Mormon side, which

It's a lot in the winter and nome you can spot the station. I'm almost anywhere in town because of a giant electric star attached to the antenna that reaches above the roof a friend of mine who also worked there said if I wanted to learn the real story of James Pool. I should talk to a woman named Elsie. Boo drew a few weeks later. Elsie told me she. Happy to talk, I knew on some level like I was waiting for you to come because there are still more of a story to tell arrives us waiting for I don't know how to say it long before either They can tell Em James Pool was the priest were Elsie grew up. Saint marries is tiny native village near the Yukon River.

Jesuits built a boarding school near by and an orphanage in the early nineteen hundreds and the church was part of everyday life for kids like Elsie. So you have to understand that I grew up Catholic and I loved everything. About being Catholic, I was a devout catholic. I went to a catholic, high school conflict college and I grew up. Believing almost like, I was more catholic than I was you pick and on they had a lot of power and our village and which is true for a lot of the villages in Alaska. When Elsie was a cage travel to NOME in the summer to stay with her sister Florence, whose seventeen years older Elsie would babies, but her niece a nephew and volunteer at ten a m. I remember we're doing that show a father pool

What do you remember about that? I remember being in the end came to, and there was no one else in the building let's just him and I on Saturdays Kim's. He was easily alone, that's Elsie sister Florence Bush, She also worked at the station and hosted the request, show and Elsie says for a kid like her working at? Can a lamb was a big deal, so I was able to say something on the radio which covers really cool pop up, but you know, but then lake, when songs or playing, You know he would kiss me and we would kiss stuff so Can we go now. Eleven twelve. I asked Florence

she knew anything about that. No, I mean I saw it. He did the same thing with me like he would kiss and huge furtive try to kiss a road. Dislike like what the heck are you trying to do. You know? That's not that's not supposed to be in their at all and he would stop but see I knew him since I was six years old, for a long time. Elsie was too ashamed to talk about what James Pool did tour decades later she file the civil I'll sued against him and the regional Jesuit order, she accused of molesting and fondling her. She couldn't press criminal charges because the statute, of limitations in Alaska at the time wouldn't allow for it

Father you knew was wrong for other people to be doing The types of sexual- actually, you were doing with the young woman, correct, Elsie's lawyer interview, James Pool and this deposition tape from toothache. On five. Why didn't you think it was wrong for you, pure delusion? Ok, you said that What do you mean by that out? Tell me how that manifested itself. That short of intercourse was ok honey. What was a theological justification your mind, for it was a secular justification. What are some sort of process you went? They re thus provided, however, that work. I thought, I was bringing love until the life of persons, engaging in sexual acts with her by being intimate,

What's your definition of intimacy in short of intercourse he was such a scary guy. This is drug wall again he's a former catholic priests, we met earlier. He was in the room when James Poor gave is deposition. It was like sitting down with a major felon. With a Malta felony murdered thing going on and when we all got done, we were just so we- all went mad, a martini afterwards it was just the most out of body. Experience way. I mean what was scary about it. He declared himself the greatest lover of the world. Naturally, the priesthood because of stories like AL seas for years he says the church used him as a fixture

send of sexual abuse parishes after a priest was removed because of credible accusations of sexual abuse, smooth things were mostly in the MID west in his job was to smooth things over with victims and families. Or when the families come in? That is so painful your eyes, just hugely dinner pleads in talking about that. As I go back to remove you, I mean I can feel being there what it happened they gather new, younger priest who they think gets it, who they think that then give them some kind of past roll on human response and that paint soul palpable. At that point, it's just its oozing out of them breaking down right in front of you after years of being a fixture Patrick, quit the church in disgust and switch sides.

Now he works for a law firm in California as an advocate for victims of clergy, sex abuse, that's how he knows. Elsie and Elsie isn't fond, pools only victim, there are at least twenty others. According to her lawyer, James Pool were admitted to having sex with anyone. But another Alaska native woman says he got her pregnant when she was a teenager according to church door. Governments and other records pool convinced her to have an abortion cord documents. All The show he convinced his victim to accuse her own father of rape, her father went to prison and All wasn't. The only Jesuit priest accused of molesting native kids in young women in western Alaska villages are basically isolated for months on end of the year before. Modern interpretation. Those kids had nowhere to go. That's why

see a wholesale slaughter. Of generations, by the Jesuits in, alas, that's really strong language wholesale. Slaughter of children at the hands of the catholic church. Is incredibly strong language. That's what the data supports? L These village, Saint marries only house about five hundred people, but between nine one thousand eight hundred and twenty seven and one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight at least fifteen priests accused of sexual abuse served their Patrick's as ice. Lady native communities, in Alaska, an indian reservations in the northwest were used as dumping grounds for problem Jesuits. We found accused Jesuits in more than a hundred of those communities. Remarks. British, both you Brigida bearskins,

extremely welcoming, and that is a weakness that a perpetrator can exploit really easily because There are going to trust that person there is warning from the Jesuit provincials. There was no warning from the Jesuit bishops of fur banks. There was none or any warning into them. Some Jesuits didn't seem too you native people as fully human. I found a letter from a judge. The leader that describes alaskan natives as simple minded and another utter says, they are people not advanced enough to give impartial and true testimony Elsie Boot, RO sees the sexual abuse as part of the churches attempt to erase native culture her spirituality, the whole premise behind the cat, The church in their mission with native people with indigenous people, was just Rick them over their identity and so sexual abuse

This was one way. I think its intentional, when you have an inch the two shin that is aware of problem priests, perpetrator, priest, and move them to places where I believe that people are less then They believe the people there would not speak out like I can forgive you know one perpetrator right, but to move to an understanding that it was the institution the Catholic Church had operated in a way that deal our you'd. Are you pick people indigenous people, that's unforgivable, Elsie was the first alaskan native victim to go public with their identity and the aid. Kennedy of her abuser in two thousand and five

She said with a lawsuit against Jesuits four million dollars, Emily found does it show church officials receive complaints about James pools behaviour? At least eight years before Elsie Bhutto was even more when we come back how the church responded to those complaints. Emily follows a paper trail. The shows how James Pool and other juice, priest or shuffled around for decades- that's next reveal from the centre for investigating reporting and p r eggs.

From the centre for investigative reporting in p r eggs. This is reveal a reality they show is about a topic that is not appropriate for everyone. It's a story of jest, would priests accused of sexual abuse and how the catholic church shuffled them around before the break. Emily swing with Northwest NEWS network introduced us to Elsie. Who draw in Alaska Native, whose abused when she was a child by priest named James Pool, he admitted it under oath Emily. What happened James for while the short story is not much, he wasn't tried in a criminal court need didn't have to register as a sex. Offender decades of church correspondence show very little response to concerns about his conduct while he was serving in Alaska native communities. So it sounds like what you're saying

Is people in leadership knew about James Pool? Yes, one of the first letters about pool is from nineteen sixty. That's when another Jesuit priest Segundo Llorente raised questions about how pool was behaving with girls at the school outside Saint marries, village. That's where Elsie S from part. Llorente job was to watch over what was happening at Saint marries. So he writes this letter to the priest in charge of finances for the Jesuits Alaska missions and here's what it says. Some people have come to the conclusion that Father Pool has a fixation on thanks an obsession, some sort of mental aberration that makes them see sex everywhere. Some think that maybe he's projecting outwardly what's eating him inwardly, so Zella Segundo really had James Full pegged. He did and many more letters tell the same story, and this is where it gets more graphic. The letter say James Pools,

our sitting in his room alone with young girls asking them about sex and masturbation. One letter details how he went into the girls dormitory and move their beds around in his own arrangements and Segundo, Lorenz it was writing these letters to hire ups and the church, eventually The information in those letters made it to the superior general in Rome, the man in charge of the entire Jesuit order, because it was such a big do well tells us that knowledge of what James Poor was doing when all the way to the top to Rome, but there is also something truly bizarre about all of this correspondence: What's that Segundo Llorente, he was also accused of sexual abuse, and so was the priest in Alaska. He sent that first letter to. I found lots of cases of whistleblower letters exchanged between Jesuits, who were also accused themselves.

So then what happened? All these guys? Well, these same Jesuit letters gave me a few clues. I collected at least a hundred a memo from nineteen forty eight that said Jesuits who committed Sexual acts should be removed or resign. But that's not what happens other letter so pray. Scott move from one native community to another. It's almost like the Jesuit, version of a merry go round after people Elsie's started complaining about James Pool, he was sent to an all boys high school in Portland Oregon, but a year after that, she went right back. Another far removed native community in Alaska- and this happened over an over again the Jesuit priests for decades, and did they ever get off the murderer well that's what I wanted to find out too

do that. I went to a library to flip through an official catholic directory. It's this giant marooned book bigger than a shoe box and a lot heavier it list. Every priest in the United States I'd been tipped off about where James Pool might be. So I. And to a page in Washington. State Spokane ranges community any hand trash without all the names who lives there. When I discovered, is that when the merry go round finally stopped James Pool wound up at a prominent Jesuit University with the well known law school and an even better known, basketball team can Zaga University in downtown Spokane Washington? Why would the church put a priest?

he used of sexually abusing young women so close to students. I went back to that two thousand five deposition tape from Elsie Boutros Civil case. Her lawyer had the same question her father poor. So you can use facilities on the campus without problems right labour and you go by yourself when Father Paul was sent again Zaga in two thousand, for he was supposed to be constantly supervised and chaperoned owned. Let's, according to the rules, the Jesuits came up with to deal with priests accused of sexual abuse, but that constant monitoring didn't happen? Have you been interviewed by any students for doing research Unalaska, since you gotta reaches one and who is that the slightest idea ok, a man or a woman woman and students can Zaga.

Then who was present when she interviewed you, nobody risen up front living. I started taking a closer look at this house where Father Poor was living. It's called the Cardinal Bayer House, also known as the Regis community, it's a home for retired priests. I went back to what I found in the official Catholic Directory and cross reference date with lists of predator priests from a national data base. Father pool wasn't the only one who lived at this house. Nineteen other priests accused of sexual abuse lived there going back as far as nineteen eighty six most of them had previously worked in native communities

Look he's open. What you say is: twenty priests were moved away and stashed at this retirement community with other Jesuits and it's in the middle of a college, campuses, yeah and so as a cab digging. I started to notice a pattern after these Jesuits got to all for the church to shuffle them around, they'd send them to live. Their days at this retirement home and their final assignment praying for the church and society, earlier. You said the Jesuits who had a rule in place that these priests were supposed to be under constant supervision, Father Pool wasn't, but what about the others, yet they weren't either. I found a police report from two thousand nine that says residence at this home didn't have to sign in or out that same year, students profile the house as part of a class project, and they

viewed, another Jesuit James Jacobson and both legal documents and a deposition Jacobson admits to using church funds to solicit sex from prostitutes in Alaska and the nineteen seventies and eighties, and Dna testing shows you Father children with several Alaska native women, so the Jesuits knew about these priests. But what about Zagat University will? What did So that is the million dollar question and I tried to ask and Zagging University President Pain Mccullough, but he turned Oh my request for an interview three times. Instead Ginsburg as spokesmen point in me to a memo Mccullough sent to faculty and staff. This fall. It says we must continue. It work at educating ourselves on each other about the various expressions of bias, harassment and abuse and hold those who are found to avoid related our commitments accountable. Both. Jesuit order and Ginza have argued that the homes not on camp Ass, the properties, Oneb,

the Jesuits, not the university and Ginsburg. It doesn't make decisions about who lives there, but it's on the official campus map and its listed in the campus directory so Emily you're saying these priests have been accused of raping and abuse. Kids in young women, were sent to live on a college. Is surrounded by young people than is exactly What I am telling you how they went to basketball games, they use the library and they had healthcare services at the Cardinal Bay, a house? Now I should say that I haven't found evidence that the accused priests offended or abused anyone after they moved into the home. Still I wanted to check it out So I went there one day with reveals data editor, Michael Corey he had been here. Mimi dig into those records. I mention ring the bell.

As we wait to steady stream of students walks right in front this building its pretty nondescript red brick Ec Square Windows and it's not really a house. It's more like a small office building ring the bell again. Finally, to priests. Father actual Leiva and Father Jim Torrents answer the door. I can. I met with a warm welcome copier, I'm fine thing, Before the offer, though,. Inside a long hallway gives way to an expansive living room. The same one where James Pool Seti was interviewed by a female good Zaga University students, fathers LISA and Torrents- invite Michael and me to sit on a well worn, couch and easy chairs with floral upholstery Another Jesuit Father, Frank case seems curious, so he joins conversation at first only for a moment, but he stays standing. A more than an hour Michael ask sparks

It's about the alleged abusers who lived here over the years. Do you, an opinion as to why these things happen and in the charter in order to let others of the scandal was, the lives of people were covering up the coming up. The abuse which people can live. People in charge, like the bishops, the bishops and the, and one of the reasons that I think for that is, that would be an all day, would if a guy was having trouble for sexual addiction are like alcohol addiction. Are they they get, that they send them after one of these rehab programmes. Then they would come back with a good housekeeping seal of approval. From some psychologist saying that he is ready to be We have signed a ministry and in all the bishops are not psychological experts still to be a Jesuit, is to join

brother. One of the things I do. I want to want to reach out to the perpetrator, to the person and say you're still our brother. We want to support you as a brother Jesuit for as long as we can You know they didn't know there. They ve done wrong, so you don't have to preach greeted Father Elisa chimes in. I think we also would pray for the victims. We do then. This is whoever they are yeah. Let me mention that was, and I ask you: why do you think that they get the same kind of support that a jesuit like he seldom like you,

And they're, so your brother went get the job I dont know because it depends on their own families. You should the provincial will make contact with them and end and try to be supported and get them. Psychological help is needed. Father case told ass. He knew James Pool the priest to molested Elsie Boo drown. He also told us he used to be the provincial here. He was in charge of the Jesuits it's in Alaska and the northwest. What he didn't tell us is that, while he was provincial in nineteen eighty nine, he wrote a letter endorsing James Pool case called him, a Jesuit priest in very good standing. This was right after pool left Alaska, because too many accusations had piled up against egg spokesperson, told us case didn't know about the accusation.

Against pool when he wrote that letter. I also found out father case used to serve in high ranking rules for the Jesuit order in Rome. Today he has deep connections at Ginza he's vice president of the university any sits on the benches, the chaplain of the bull dogs Ginsburg, his beloved basketball team, in short, he's a- big deal. I now know how the Jesuits treated accused priests, even priests, who admitted to sexual abuse, but I wanted to find out how Jesuit higher ups treated Elsie Boo drove after she decided to speak up about what happen to her at the radio station in NOME. We were like the sheep and there the shepherd and they're not responding to their flock in a responsible way. I became like a liability to them.

She wrote a letter to the Bishop in Alaska more than twenty years after James Pool abused her. She says the Bishop invite It turned to a meeting it took like an hour and a half to even get him to understand what it was like for me to come forward, not to be a victim, but what it was like for me to come forward. He didn't get it, and it became very clear to me that he, did not care about what happened to me. He didn't understand the effects of the abuse. He didn't acknowledge that little girl that hurt and say I'm sorry this happen to you, what can I do?

we don't know of any accused priests that, with it are no bay, a house any more some removed again. This to a retirement home in California. That is more services for the elderly. As further most of them are found, journeys poor he's on the wall. He is here, ain't there is Mike and I stand in the middle of a Jesuit cemetery on a hillside about twenty minutes outside Spokane, it's a patch of grass dotted by simple white, marble, headstones and a wall filled with earns James all is buried here and you, Sir rounded, by his Jesuit brothers. I'm just gonna look here to convey a priest assignments farrago. I pull out my phone to find our list of prey in our research Michael, I found ninety to accuse Jesuits who worked in the Oregon province John P Leary, who is it

Former president of conveying Macneil he's he's on our list: Bernard Ash Macneil. Co when Doyle Dominic Doyle here is not a good do Frances Duffy. Yeah, it's interesting when you what you can see on the less, but then you start walking through the cemetery and they all sort of behind the same yeah they're. All here my can. I figured out that fifty five of the nearly six hundred fifty Jesuits buried here were accused of sexual abuse. That's eight per cent like you just spend all day here being like check check check after James Pool, was sent again Zagat. He was assigned a job reserve for priests who get in serious trouble tending the cemetery. This varies monetary and it's a lonely spot

almost silent except around noon, You can hear the sound of children playing so if you go through iron gate, and you just go on that road. The trees. There I mean you can see the top of the school through the trees. That's it I mean that's okay for twelve and you can walk right up to it. And that's exactly what MIKE and I decided to do as a woman and a full habit watching these kids play soccer And now all in their plan c, It's a navy, blue sweaters, beautiful fault,

and a little boys have little sweater vests where he says best glasses, obey the Jesuits buried in the cemetery were accused of abusing hundreds of native children Emily and MIKE found that eighty percent of Accuse Jesuits in Alaska and the North West worked in native american communities at some point in their careers, but father pool all of these general. Shuffled around and protected by the church Emily. Wants to know why. So she does straight to the top and her surprise. Jesuit leadership agrees to talk.

This is not a distraction from our work. This is our work in this generation is to reconcile. The scenes of our past. That's next on reveal, Therefore, investigative reporting, MP or x from the centre for investigative reporting in p r ex this is reveal a militant I'm backwards Emily swing of Northwest NEWS network she spent more than a year and a half piecing together, a story of how the Jesuits an order of the catholic church covered up decades of sexual abuse and indigenous communities all over Alaska and the North West. This is the only part of the country were Jesuit: priests were abusing young people as well. We looked into that and in what the Jesuits used to call the Oregon province, Washington.

Or again Montana Idaho went Alaska in this region there are more than three times the number of accuse Jesuit priests compared to the average for other parts of the. U S, three times many? Why are these numbers so high and the Oregon province? You know we're still looking into that. I can tell you Hundreds of civil law suits claiming sexual abuse against priests were filed against the Jesuits and the province and the early two thousands, the vast. Priority of those cases were settled and there were so many of them- that in two thousand nine, the entire Oregon province filed for bankruptcy, it's the third just settlement and catholic church history and altogether they paid out a hundred sixty six million dollars. So Emily do you know what the

it have to say about all this? While I wanted to talk to the provincial he's, the priest who is in charge of the Oregon province during this crucial time in the early two, thousands that's when hundreds of lawsuits were filed for crimes that have been committed decades before at his office in downtown Seattle? John Whitney welcomes meet with a handshake and a wide smile sure that great Father these now. The parish priest at Saint Josephs perish his office is on the second floor of a creed the old building in the heart of a hectic neighbourhood. It smells like incense, holy water and dust in his shells are crammed with philosophy books. He cons Hegel, Deckard Aristotle's,

physical Plato and there's a model of the last supper made out of way go breaks on. One of the shells are my guy look. Jesus is holding back at Whitney was wait until we, the Oregon province in two thousand, to only a year after he taken final vows as a Jesuit he's in his late fifties, now the nature becoming a provincial as they throw you in the deep into the pool and so I just wish to swim. There's a lot of things finances things it had necessarily been prepared for one of them First, the law suits Whitney had to deal with was Elsie Boo, drowse long before he was. Provincial Whitney went to Alaska in the late as a volunteer nature and time and Saint marries, the same village were Elsie, grew up and were father. James Pool was first accused of sexual abuse. Whitney said

He didn't know about any of that. Until decades later he says he signed paperwork to place up to a dozen accused priests. In but no barrier House Atkins Egg University to live alongside James Poor weak. Kept him in the Jesuits intentionally he's my belief was even at his age, which was in the eighties. At that point has been an apartment spoken. He would still have offended someone, but why put him. On or next year, depending on who you ask a college campuses that was it the only place that we had to put him. That was that I thought he could. Monitored safely. Did you notifying in Zagging University about James Pool and He will be living in the cardinal by a house,

we did, but I dont know I am not certain of that particular notification, one about the police Department, Spokane Police Department. I know he did. I appreciate and do that. I don't think we did that again. There wasn't the registration of a sex offender cuz. He wasn't he'd ever been convicted of a sex offense. So I don't think we did that. I. You are convinced that he did commit crimes, I I know we did a pressure. We can do that. I don't think we did. I began there. Wasn't the registration of the sex offender cause? He wasn't he'd never been convicted of a sex offence. So I don't think we did that, but you are convinced that he did commit crimes. I am convinced it. So if he committed crimes, why not tell the police department We were in new territory and I was looking for answers to how to restrict him, and I honestly did not think that the

this would have a role map that they would be You know now, and I thank him in hindsight, Perhaps it would have been a wise thing to do. Games pool is deposed, and two thousand five as part of Elsie Boutros CASE and attorney asks him quote. Has anybody from your? order, looked at you and said Father pool what you're doing was a mortal sin. It was wrong. You inflict a tremendous pain, an arm you destroyed lives and you hurt those women and girls, James Paul, said yes and then, when they asked him who said that to him, he said that it was you so, did we ever so that their who went further when he said that? Is that true? I believe, like I don't know, if those were the exact words. But yes, I did a quote link that, doesn't

lead me to believe that there is a whole lot of love lost between the two of you. My mission is Provincial is to love the men as a person as individual and honestly in my own and my own sinfulness, I found in kind of creepy still father when you signed off on allowing men like pool to go back to native communities, one Jesuit Henry hard. Reeves ministered to native people throughout Western Alaska, starting in the nineteen fifty's. Thousand nine? He was accused of raping boys as young as sinks multiple times for decades. I ask Father Whitney whether native american villages were dumping grounds for predator priests. He says no, but I still can't under

and why would have sent a man like Henry Hargreaves to say Mass, on indian reservations in Washington state after he was removed from Alaska? So it's almost like he was put back into the same environment in a different place, and so May We, while you're saying these weren't dumping grounds the attic A evidence shows that it could have perhaps been that way. The switch eleven ready a long pause. I really honesty, I what happened and this in some of these accusations. What was the reality that the event I think with sometimes minimized and not understood wait, I'm hearing you say, as you did not have. Feeling like well, there

indian community, so it doesn't matter, oh no, not at all. Oh no, I mean I'm not at all. It was not at all. It was and this is one of the things I know- that that priests, bishops and serious struggle with his eye. If you need somebody, you need a priest and we don't have any and if goes in, is monitored and comes back any what were his and that's. That's enough just to go up and say mass and just come back that kind of thing not to live there. So our data. No, I know it's just hired. You know like it's horrible. Looking at it again I feel like you're having an excuse, my language, I feel like you're having an ocean moment not just nor even a little bit, but it's it's one of those like yeah, I mean I I I was.

I was always try my best, and I know there were times I miss something there. I know there are times I miss something at times Father Whitney drops his head, about his eyes and pinches the bridge of his nose. Do you think that poor went to Hell. I really feel first unqualified answer and second of my life, I'm not sure. Anybody go to Hell. What I believe is purgatory, but I believe purgatory to is that we all have to be part of the things we hold onto. I feel at least the last time I saw at last time? I saw gene pool that I'm not if we let go in the sense of owning up to what he had done, and I think he can't

be in the presence of God to still not willing to know the suffering that he caused. I pray that he did that does that at times serve relative when you're dead So I don't I don't. I don't want to send anybody to Hell. That's where things I like about the catholic church is we made it clear people in Heaven, but we don't declare anybody in Hell. Did the Jesuits creed eight their own version of purgatory on earth, after all they shuffled accused priest from one community to another for decades and how's them under supervision until they died quietly, they never lived fully free, but they didn't face prison either. I think some of the people deserve jail. We know we can put them in jail. I felt responsibility to watch over them and that's what

we tried to do now sometimes the jailers overly and overly kind I don't know it's hard to be a jailer. It's hard to believe. Somebody A few days after James Pull died back in March, Elsie Boutros sent me a text message. It was short high, Emily, so full died on the thanks that ninety four years old, a few months, later. I met with Elsie and her sister Florence. I think it almost felt like He was somewhat key on my back. You know and now that monkeys gone and I still every now and then he comes into my dreams and it's really awful it's awful, because Florence once consider James,

Fool part of her family. She says at first. She didn't want to believe he molested her younger sister through tears, Florence tells me she was a terrible sister to Elsie. I feel bad. Portugal right away but see you know, this is not a justification, but my life had more days was poorer than I did what they are sick. You know. Do you really think that she said terrible system. Now no- and I ve gotten to the point where I think you know I hope someday you'll be more gentle on yourself and understand that Europe The action- and I totally understand it- it's you operate an out of denial because you didn't want to believe it.

These days, Elsie as a social worker and runs her own nonprofit to help victims of sexual abuse in Alaska, starting in two thousand and two or three a hundred children child clergy. Sexual abuse. Survivors in Alaska came forward this. All Elsie stood before hundreds of Alaska native people, although leadership from the Alaska Federation of natives, to recognise the impact of clergy sex abuse in their communities? We know that this is connected to our historical trauma and continues to our people today. They affect. Of this abuse has life long implications, those implications involved, a loss of culture for decades. Church, wouldn't allow native people to speak their own languages, sing their trade

general songs or practice, their spirituality as well. These stands and speaks into a microphone in front of Newgate If elders and friends, her sister Florence, her The Nancy Andrew and two other women surround her later. I still see about that. We don't he'll alone and healing as possible like I'm no longer on that iceberg by myself and my it's a sad reason holding our truth up connects us in a way that makes us stronger together, Elsie is not the only victim of clergy, sex abuse and her family she's? The youngest of seven, and she says two of her other older siblings were also abused in Saint Marries, village and her cousin, Nancy. They all grew up together,

or in Saint marries a Nancy says the Jesuits abused two of her brothers, my brother Tom. He had a great sense of humour, very kind, hearted person, and I really miss him and he in the end alcohol did take his life because he did soft medicate. He was one that didn't come forward. You know against the church. My elder brother did so you know I know he prayed every day, and even though this happened to our people,

are you know. We have a connection to spirituality and I know he's in a better place. Now Florence suggested a most beautiful thing. You just wiped the anti terror from her cheek he's cats thank you, Elsie whispers, cousin Nancy, and then We all just stand there, there's not much left to say thanks wish wing from Northwest, whose network for the story. If you'd like to cease.

The churches secret letters that show how leadership covered up sexual abuse by Jesuits go or website veal news that work early producer for this week show is Catherine, Miss Gower Doc. You tell It is edited the show thanks to reveals Michael Corey, Aaron, sank in and not as a keener and to safety, Babbitt's, Phyllis Fletcher and the North West NEWS network thanks also to Bishop accountability. Dot org our production Manders Moyne Day in a host of original score. Sound design and engineering was from the dynamic dual J Breeze Jimmy. If Fernando my man, Yo Aruba, that help this week from Caitlin Vans, achieve a meaning foresee This crisis are from birth or executive producers, Kevin Sullivan. A theme easy is by comrade of lightning support for it: He was provided by the Raven David Logan Foundation, the John D and Catherine Team Macarthur Foundation, the janitor

We can fairly foundation the Fort Foundation, the using Simons Foundation and the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation reveal is a cop adoption of the centre for investigative reporting and p R. Ex I'm a lesson and member. There is always more to the story, I. These are last few shows of the year, and let me tell you in twenty twenty we are bringing the fire launching some of our most ambitious projects we ve ever done. I can wait for you to hear them reveal is all about going deep, pulling on threads

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