Hey, it is your favorite host in all of pod custom. Now, for the rest of the year, I'm gonna be asking you to join us by becoming a member of reveal reveal is all about going deep, pulling on threads telling stories that matter for more than three years now reveal has been fighting a lawsuit. That's been jeopardizing our very existence of restoring. We about an organization called planet aid. Our story raises serious questions about whether international aid was actually reaching the people. It was intended to help and what's more, our story was truthful and we stand by it. We believe it's our duty to fight attacks like this, but fighting a lawsuit comes at a huge costs, are legal fees alone totalled more than seven million dollars? Luckily, we have pro bono legal support to help our in house counsel, but it still takes significant resources, resources that should be used to do more public service journalists, this kind of investigative-

it takes time and it cost money. If you believe in the work, we do the absolute best way to support us is by becoming a member of reveal to do it just text. The word reveal two hundred and forty seven, four thousand seven hundred and forty seven standard data rates apply and you can text stop or cancel at any time. Also all new members who donate at least five dollars a month. We get our facts, t shirt again just text. The word reveal two hundred and forty seven, four thousand seven hundred and forty seven, and all you who already support our work. I would offer a deep sincere thanks. We can't do this work without being willing afforded twenty twenty. We have big things plan. So, let's go to some good work together. From the centre for investigative reporting in or ex this is reveal a lesson in today, We re airing shell from twenty seventeen because, unfortunately, its more, relevant than ever. Remember this.

Down jobs, gaping radical islamic terrorism has presented its also been his justification for it people from majority muslim countries, The data provided by the Department of Justice, majority of individuals convicted of tears and terrorism related offence said Nine eleven came here from outside of our country, there's only one problem with that statement. Just draw Lee, astonishingly wrong. That's David network reporter profit news organization, the invite The gate to fund the vast majority of tourists, cases committed in the United States headed american citizens like dealing with black churchgoers, South Carolina Start. A race walked back and twenty fifteen then the following year or more.

Team shooting up in Orlando Night Club in the name of ice and in October, rubber bowers, opening fire murdering eleven people in Pittsburgh Synagogue, but also many many more, that I just can't believe, ignored since nine eleven. Virtually every terrorist attack in the United States has been cooked up in the United States from two thousand and eight to two thousand sixteen David and his team at the investigative fun kept track of these domestic terror incidents. There were sixty three cases with a terrorist crimes, they acted in the name of Islam. In the same period, we have nearly a hundred and twenty cases of right wing extremists, terrorism. We should note, though, right wing terrorism killed slightly fewer people overall and here's how many acts of terrorism were committed in that same time, period by people born in the countries covered by president trumps, travel ban: three: that's three

out of two hundred and seven. The Trump administration pointed to one of those three to make its case for the travel ban it the somali refugee. Who came here when used three years old reveal Stan Airport, has been looking into that incident from twenty ten. He join me now so laid out for me stand what happened Oh in downtown, Portland, Oregon? There's this plaza in front of the courthouse and every year. The day after Thanksgiving it house, this holiday celebration, That was me that same atoms

mayor back and twenty ten. He was on stage. Is there and see? There's music and the crowd is shoulder to shoulder and its party atmosphere. Santa Claus comes out and Bates counting down to the moment permitting a foot. This oversight switch and turn on all the lights on seventy five foot Christmas tree and then and then The tree lighter everybody. Start singing white Christmas by half that SAM Adams gets into his car and he gets a text from his police chief said, call me right away urgent,

I called him and He said, I need you, you come in for a briefing right away, drives straight to police headquarters where officials brief him on. What's about to be national news? Terror plot started its tracks. F B, I can say a Somali born. U S. Citizen was arrested Friday night after attempting to blow up a bomb in Portland Oregon during the city's Christmas tree lighting ceremony, the vestibule fear that this had been months even perhaps years in the making that team telling police that he chose Portland. It sounds like a really close call yeah at first. It really did, but then more of the facts came out. Here, SAM Adams. Again there is a lot of soda clouds around this particular case.

And I guess I wonder, as a person who was responsible for the city of Portland, do think that this case made the people of Portland safer. I am not entirely certain Why would he say that I mean the have to stop the terrorists blood before it happens, so I mean sounds like the definition of making people safer yeah if there really stopping a terrorist bombs, but what? If the FBI was creating the plot and the terrorist creating them? How well so, if you go back to a year before the Christmas tree Lighting, the teenage they arrested was a freshman at Oregon State University, his name's Mohammed Osman, Mohune mood I talk to one of his friends there. My name is illustrating her and I was roommates with Mohammed in college for about a year and a half,

Alyssa, says freshman year that room was supposed to be for three people, but this overlapping group of best friends and boyfriends and girlfriends met their often six. Yes, we had to Indians. Asian. I wanna say he was korean and someone from El Salvador who is catholic, myself, white Christian and then Mohammed Mohammed was a tall skinny kid who Alyssa says was the life of the party at frat parties, football games. We just had a blast together and even go to each other's classes, sometimes through that close wake. Just for you just sit through a math class just absolutely yet Nothing was mostly english, because those are a little bit easier, but yeah. We would, in all this The eye was seen to agents were videotaping him in the cafeteria. They were reading as emails and his text messages.

We were all. Why were they do, and all that I mean he just sounds like a typical casket. Essentially because of what he did on the internet in high school. What happened was when it was fifteen Mohammed went through what his dad called an identity crisis. His parents were splitting up and he started going to a more conservative mosque and got into what you might call the jihadi internet. That's where he met the guy who started this magazine called Jihad. Recollections actually have a copy of it and, if you flip to, I want to say it's like its twenty two. I think you'll find his his article. I don't you want to. I read the title of an area getting in shape without weights, and it has a pitcher of three guys looks like the practicing karate or something building your legs is the most important part of your body to prepare. You heard it almost seems like something you'd reading the onion

I mean really does like its work out for terrorists. I've been thinking about as pilates for jihadi gal. I get is police for jihadi I should say, though, Mohammed wrote more serious articles to, for instance, he wrote about why, Europe is a more deserving target for attacks than the United States. Now, by the time he got the college, he stopped one thousand and recollections, but the governments, at these articles were one of the main reasons he was targeted? There were it was more than just words that he was waiting to take action. This is really the question at the heart of this case. How do you distinguish someone who's? All talk from someone who's waiting to act solely one clue you so forced return. Hutch. There was understanding that it's very easy to get weapons in this country. That's my german!

former FBI agent, who investigated and infiltrated domestic terrorist groups- and he says there are hundreds of thousands of people who are talking about doing horrible things. If you want to find them, you can just visit and internet message board. But if you want to stop a bomb plot, he says you need to look for people who are trying to build bombs. It's very easy to obtain firearms. It's very easy to me manufacture small explosives? These aren't activities that involve a lot of training or a lot of resources, so this person can be very dangerous if they ve never actually attempted to obtain weapons on their own or engage in applaud on their own. In Mohammed's case. Not only did the F B, I find no end and saw him trying to buy weapons or engage in a terrorist plot in emails and trial, testimony John said Mohammed seem to have left behind his radical thinking. They saw

manipulable conflicted kid, but they still decided detest him first with ease. From a fictional Muslim guy in Idaho, asking how to help with the occupiers from Palestine, and then, when Mohammed didn't take that made the f B. I did something more drastic. They intervened in his real life. When did you notice something change? it was probably towards the end of our freshman year. That's Alyssa again her boyfriend The catholic salvadoran roommate was Mohammed's best friend and he arranged for Mohammed to come with him to Alaska for the summer to work in a cannery her on a fishing boat. He was poor, so he was really excited to be able to not struggle so much, but then he got to the airport. He was all packed and my understanding he just couldn't go Mohammed had been placed on the no fly list,

So, instead of making money in Alaska with his best friend, he was left behind in Portland, where the FBI would contact him again, said, a mighty goma by them, a hamburger you should use of- is an FBI agent, posing as an all kind of recruiter, I'd like to eat up with you for your honor, no quick conversation that first conversation was not recorded. Fbi agents claim they ran out of batteries, but the FBI. Says Useth ask Mohammed what he wanted to do and when he didn't answer gave him some choices. He could pray study money overseas, martyr himself or become operational? Mohammed chose operational and when use, if asked what that meant Mohammed said he was interested in a car bombing. So all of this is alleged by the FBI, because we have noted,

to corroborate what they're saying that's right, they didn't recorded and not only that the agent who wrote the report about it destroyed his notes, but we do have greeny video recordings of the next meeting. You seven Mohammed, are sitting on the floor of a hotel room opening bags of take out food. The camera seem to be on a desk on the other side of the room, so that audio, not great here, is your yourself. Yes, we must set up of this meeting. Is that uses and Mohammed need to convince the third guy in the room whose also an undercover agents to give them explosives by your dream? ass, if to Mohammed, describes a dreamy had where he was leading, eleven thousand fighters to conquer Jerusalem, let us do that

Making fun of me crazy, streamers mountains fifteen minute in the conversation turns from dreams. These two reality. So when you all Mohammed asks for a truck with explosives. After that the FBI takes over. They give Mohammed Homework, yes to rent, a storage shed by some doubly batteries and a possible switch radio Shack, but its FBI agents who get the Van and to build a fake bomb in it out of plywood and plastic barrels, its agents who drive and park that Van near the Christmas tree lighting with Mohammed in the passenger seat leave tell Mohammed the phone number to dial one. That's supposed to detonate the bomb darlin. Just before he's arrested

but in the meetings leading up to that day over and over the under our agents give Mohammed what they called out. The government said these were opportunities for Mohammed to back out that show him choosing violence. Instead, Mohammed's attorneys said these phony choices that show in trying to live up to expectations and his adolescent dreams. One of the most dramatic out happens in that first meeting Saunders after Mohammed casually suggests he could low himself up in the van Mohammed is still sitting on the floor and he keeps looking down at his food while he talks, while Youssef towers over him gesturing with his hands yeah well You knew how even the lovers let me just hours soon, scissors

How do I order something for this? Video played a critical role at Muhammad's trial. I talked with juror Alicia Thompson and she was on the fence until she re watched it That's what made me finally decide to say he was guilty and what was it about that clip that help to make that decision, because he said he was thinking about it, it was fifteen he's been thinking about it. He acted on it and what do you think that it is to kill Americans

after a thirteen day trial. They found him guilty of attempted use a weapon of mass destruction in less than seven hours. The question I still have is an alarming did. All of this makes feel safer. That depends on what you think Mohammed would have done without the FBI leading him along, but it also depends on what you think those FBI agents could have done that something former agent MIKE German pointed out to me. That's the flip side of this that these under cover operations are very high resource. Investigations. So this means you're not doing something else and there's plenty of crime out there. The government shouldn't be in that position,

granting it, and how often does it happen like? How often do we put resources into taking somebody who is susceptible but not actually doing anything and put them away? Well, a lot more often, if your Muslim in our domestic terrorism database, nearly half of those cases, involve stings compared to twelve percent of right wing cases, also prosecutors charge Mohammed with attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction. That's a terrorism charge and they added to that. A terrorism sentencing enhancement, terrorism, charges bring with them substantially higher penalties. Longer

answers, then yeah harsher terms. That's rapporteur, David Nyjord, again, and for good reason. You know they cause greater harm than your ordinary underlying crimes. Mohammed got thirty years in prison, followed by a lifetime of supervised release when he gets out of prison. He'll have to ask a probation officer before uses a computer was caused charges and sentences em and prosecutions very common. Among isn't whereas with lower mainstream. Is Sir there's a lot. I think there's a lot of arrest slapping that goes on. In fact, prick terms, for a right wing. Terrorists are less than half as long as sentences for terrorist. Who say that acting in the name of Islam case in point, something that,

the night after Mohammed's arrest and breaking news, though even following this morning, fire occurs responded to an arson fire at a mosque and core values around two fifteen. This morning it happened at the Solomon Owl for reason, what seem to be retaliation for the Christmas tree bomb plot, someone had broken a window and started a fire in the core values mosque whereby Mohammed sometimes prayed okay. So what happened with the Christmas tree? Bomb plot was just that it was a plot, did never actually turned into a terrorist attack, but would have and here this mosque, that's a terrorist attack right, absolutely its ideological violence to intimidate a group by the FBI's definition, that's terrorism, but it wasn't treated like terrorism. How was it treated that part of the story when we come back

This is reveal from the centre for investigative reporting and p r eggs From the for investigative reporting in p r eggs, this is reveal analysis before the break. We heard about back to back terrorist incidents in organ in an FBI. Sting operation, a nightmare. Somalia, American, nay, Mohammed Bosman, more mood got thirty years in prison for trying to set off a fake but the night after imply, there was an arson and Mohammed Mosque reveals stand. Our court has been looking into the arsonists story, so who did what happen

well. He was a white christian. Twenty four year olds named Cody sat Crawford. He pleaded no contest in twenty. Sixteen and David Nigh word of the investigative fund was in the courtroom for the sentencing, and it was really strikingly different from what you see in a difficult terrorism case he says, even though Cody insisted he was innocent and didn't show any remorse. The judge smiling at him ass. She imposed her verdict, five years probation, no prison time, so Mohammed gets prison time for fake bomb, but Cody God, no prison term for real fire.

How does it happen? It fits with a larger pattern. We know from that domestic terrorism database we put together with the investigative fund prison terms for terrorists to target Muslims, tend to be about half as long as for terrorists targeting the general public. In this arson case, I called the prosecutor and he told me Cody got off so lightly because at the time of the sentencing he was an organ state hospital, the mental hospital where one flew over the cuckoos nest found what happened was after the arson. Cody had a series of episodes involving alcohol and what a psychiatrist diagnosed as brief reactive psychosis. One found him. Gas station ranting at the customers that he was a christian warrior and telling a police officer you are going to burn in Hell, like the other Muslims, the one that bind the dim in the mental hospital started. It is moms house

here. He videotaped himself holding up a giant ranch in front of a little upright piano prayer and an smashing it down in a video he shot later that night he delivered. Monologue and his moms back yard, with shards of the piano burning. On fire behind him dead, Berlin Love, but I did not very stupid as well. You know those Islamic sent thing a burden.

FR. I care because I do due to them. While the piano burned his mom called the police officer. Casey Gibson was the first on the scene. You got to the door and was able to just lock the door as I was given the door handle and he yelled from inside the house that he had again. He was gonna shoot me so case. He pulls out his done and at this point officer Todd thank shows up. I see Coty leaning out the window and he's got a flashlight one hand me bring. His other hand up in what looked to me like I'm, like a shooting position, so I dropped my knees behind the engine block of my police car and at that point, I realize you didn't have a gun in San he's: gotta slingshot, both officers. Cody came very close to being shot that night coding.

Ultimately charged with unlawful use of a weapon, a felony and found guilty, except for insanity, which is how you- and then in the mental hospital Then there are nearly two years he was finally sentenced for the mosque arson ok, so I'm driving over to the core values. Moscow with Moscow. Far warmly. I wanted to talk to Mozart because the prosecution memo about the lenient sentence named one other factor. In addition,

Dakotas mental illness. It said they picked the verdict with great deference to the leaders of the mosque. Most safari is one of those leaders sigh wonder what role he had in that sense, most of our comes out of the mosque wearing a catchy fast with too many pockets he's got a trim, white beard and little round glasses. You act like a grandfather, the knight of the fire he showed up Three I am while it was still burning yeah, I saw death, it's a black and fire inside and the wind do this window twice a brook to Mozart, said the prosecution kept the mosque leaders informed, but as far as consulting them about the sentence telling them we're not and seek to put him in prison nor nano they didn't. He did it

but has one of the things I said and from that some do whatever you want. You feel that's right, we'll accepted we are with you, but I will said the people they will. They would feel that's not fair between what's happened with Mohammed murmured and what's happened with him, then I told most of our something he didn't know a few months after Coty was sentenced for the mosque arson medical panel at the mental hospital. Decided he didn't, have bipolar disorder. After all, they diagnosed him with personality disorder and substance, abuse, disorder and the way I interpret the lot. They couldn't hold them for that, so they released him even though they concluded there was evidence he was substantially dangerous and the. That they said that he is dangerous, and yet I don't think they did a good job. If he's it damages and let him free, I don't think that's right,

I drove straight from talking to those afar, the mosque to Meeting Cody outside of it. He's wiring with agreeing red Beard- and I had I sweatshirt and from the moment I meet him, he's talking nonstop about video. She's, made visiting his mom and hospital me all about the homemade Mikey Road here on battery. Thirty, six, both as recently as last year, all the components of chinese it takes more than a day before I can sit him down in a quiet place and ask me about the things I want to talk about the mosque arson, which he still deny starting despite dna evidence and what he said about Muslim stirring Psychotic episodes may quote you saying, watch out for your red as that's how you know you're standing front of so like I said, one flew over cuviers nest.

Are you saying those aimed at a crazy I wanted a middle ground where I got convicted, but I didn't have to do a lot of years in prison. I didn't have to pay any money or I didn't have to say I did it. I can sit or what happened in my case, a total victory for me It does seem like you, I wrote you liked the federal government's ass in court. Either way you look at it with what I started with whether I It or not. But later I press him on the details. The police say talk to your sister and she had said that. Your sister, your mother, why you always say like that? Just amid that I actually am I not case, and I go back on social security and be a leech on society order. Pick myself up by the big straps,

tell everybody allied through my teeth, look cool by James Nicholson. Maybe people think I'm guilty anyway. It's much more employable to be thought of as a crook liar then, as a bipolar, crazy guy. Lose you take on my take is that it's really hard to tell what Cody actually believes verses? What he wants you to think people, if you know, because one minute I'd be talking to amend it a Muslims are amazing people. I have friends at her muslin and then the next minute he'd say something like this is another religion that just calls for your death: under so many different circumstances. If you aren't on their side since you released when the mental hospital he hasn't been convicted of anything like the mosque arson, but he drunkenly drive over a mail box an offence and then for the police he wrecked moms.

Are while driving on a suspended licence and more recently he spat on an officer, but he just keeps getting second chances. Last, I checked he's not in jail. Meanwhile, for the Christmas tree Blob Mohammed more mood is in a medium security, federal prison, yeah and Cody is very conscious of how they are. Two cases are intertwined at first. He said he didn't think Mohammed should, let's get out of prison? But then he also said this: there is never mental health stuff mixed in the Mohammed case, I know there are there has to be there because they can be that angry upset. I, like everybody unless they're deeply deeply disturbed, If anything, there should have been a role reversal in polish. I gotta go to the hospital and gotten help

Mohammed, is projected to get out of prison in twenty thirty seven. When he'll be forty. Five years old, there was reveals still airport the difference in how the government treats cases like Kutuzov, Crawford's and Mohammed Horseman was a is deeper than just prison sentences. Dozens of FBI agents were to set up a hermit in their fate burning clad, but by putting so many resources, The sting operations like that work is law enforcement missing the threat from right wing extremists. Even when it's right in front of their eyes on direct me. Aren't you around our people that story next on reveal.

From the seller for investigative reporting and p r eggs, this is reveal a mallet they were re airing show about domestic terrorism are partners at the nonprofit newsroom. The investigative fun looked at domestic terrorism from two thousand and eight to two thousand. Sixteen. They found the federal government focused almost all of its sources on terrorist proclaimed. They were fighting in the name of Islam. Most of those plants were foiled, but when it the right wing terrorist authorities were successful. Most of those plants were carried out that part of the white male. About twenty, five or thirty. Why female that's about the same age? There is the key

my arm, the suspects are married couple. The husband had a habit of between his views. Any chance he got online or even on tv reveals, gathers gasket joys. We now hey gather higher okay, so who deal with? Can you start with the husband, his name's Jared Miller, and he spent a lot of time recording himself ass? Well ass, my video! That's! How we're gonna get to known terrorists are set about civil bow wow So you're was the kind of guy like to chill out get high and talks back about football yeah than in a lot of these online videos he's mouthing off about guns, drug laws. The police state see Jared was this thirty something high school dropout and he dealt pot and in the summer of twenty third, in he was living with his wife Amanda in Lafayette Indiana by then he had a pretty

long, wrapped she'd be broken, arrested every stinking day tomorrow on the four pillars and other kinds of drugs, because their software, himself. He shot this in his low ran apartment under the spinning ceiling fan. He was on house arrest. You are these fashionable ankle bracelets. Very uncomfortable thing. Are you see of men in dental? My foot Jared saw himself as the victim of an illegitimate system. Here's what he saw when he looked outside. Here's my front window here, that is the core house. You have to go down to the big monument to tyranny and submit crawling grovelling on his hands and knees. Oh give me permission to do this. Give me permission to do that sounds a little

Maxie, Germany, me or maybe communist Russia eventually Jared fail. That house arrest I M Lord evicted him in Amanda for not paying their rent, so he had to serve out the rest of his term in jail. He told his wife how he felt about that in another video, your husband, I love you so much weaker. This thorny issue, Jarrett felony connections made it hard for him to find a job and legal for him to own a firearm. He didn't believe in these laws online He found kindred spirits in something called the sovereign citizen. Movement are partners. A nonprofit newsroom. The investigative fund have reported on its followers. Here's journey

David Nigh were people who declare themselves serving citizens that belong to an organisation. They belong to a belief system. David says they tend to see the police. This way, as oppressive force of the conspiratorial new world order, which is trying to enslave all of mankind and fair very revolutionary in their Alex David found that sovereign citizens pose a big threat. Enforcement. In nine years. They killed nine police officers and injured another twelve. That movement appealed to them Worst back in Indiana were things work. Going very well after house arrest the eviction and jeered stint in jail They were looking for where to go, and here is the sky out and Vera who was running for governor touting the same ideology that they were. His name was David Lorry Vanderbilt

a lot of people are going and law enforcement, as they did Nazi Germany because it validates their worst trade. As I say, this right now to fight to the death for your freedom, I'm ready. Now to go to jail for the rest of my life, for your freedom What are you willing to do for your own freedom, Americans, the title This video is, if Obama sends police to take your guns execute them. There was, in fact, a video that inspired chaired shortly after the moved out to better today working on his campaign. Here's your in Amanda high tailing, it out of Indiana That's one of the few recordings we have with Amandas Voice in it too, but her social media suggests that she was on board with Jerry

views. The Miller's had barely made it into a batter when Jared gotten trouble again, almost five hundred and twenty five all cricket forgotten under part, in this bone call he complained to the Indiana Bureau of Motor vehicles. Do you know that the whole month ran? I can't get a job as as as a personal view. We can you tell me how many laws are on the both concerning drivers. Unfortunately, no I can't tell you like an exact number right here is where Jerry goes from cranky citizen, hassling government employee, to something else. I will monitor court down here and rooted cricket and if they come to arrest me for non compliance whatever I was people Word of that call reach the LAS Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, detectives paid the there's a visit and concluded the cup. Didn't pose a threat

David says: it's not uncommon for police to react to swear. They seem like sort of hopeless losers, a sort of minimize the threat that they pose. Sometimes the Miller's posed in costumes along the strap four tenths Amanda worked at hobby lobby like she had back home in Indiana and a candidate who drew them to Vegas David Vander, big. He introduce them to another politician. They crashed my companionship, that's Gordon Martinez. He was campaigning for sheriff on the idea that the vaguest police department was corrupt, he'd, been at it, Active in that department. It didn't take him along to feel nervous about the Miller's Jared started out by the same jeez I wanna help. I want to be part of your campaign for sheriff and then he began explaining his criminal record in his opinion.

Really didn't mount to a whole lot. He decline Jared Offer of help ages, wasn't gettin it, and now I just had to say I you can't be anywhere near me, and I can't be anywhere near you, but the Miller's didn't fade. Quietly away, Gordon kept spotting them at political events around town there they are there they are in, and I was I was always kind of expecting some type of acting out. There's just a low voice in the back of my mind, said: keep your eye and this guide because he's a he's, a weirdo another place. Jeered in Amanda turned up the funding ranch where they would find even bigger stage, for their radical views about overturned, stand off between a vat, a rapture and arms supporters on one side and the federal government on the other. This was an April twenty fourteen Reenter Clive in Burundi escalated a decades long dispute with the federal government over his refuse.

The pay fees for grazing his cattle on public lands, his arms supporters, gathered at the ranch outside LAS Vegas on social media. They called it a range war with each passing day. More and more protesters arrived to support the Bundy's one of them carrying in eighteen, forty, seven, the Miller's where, among them, Jerry gave interviews to news crews for this one with Al Jazeera America jeered, tricked out for armed resistance against the new world order, full camouflage and a black tactical vest packing a rifle and a handgun afraid of death, I'm afraid of being slave, I'm afraid of living under two

the Jared said to a tv news crew while heavily armed that he was willing to die for his beliefs. The Miller's believed that they were oppressed by a tyrannical police state, but the law still wasn't watching them after he threatened violence in a phone call, detectives gave them a pass and his sovereign citizen beliefs didn't raise eyebrows at the Bundy Ranch. Remember it was illegal for him, a former felons, even possess the weapon. That would have been reason enough to arrest him in another interview at the ranch with NBC Affiliate CARE, Envy Jared said, I feel sorry for any federal agents. I want to come in here and try to push us around or anything like that. I really dont want violence toward them, but if they're gonna come bring violence to us, well, if that's language they want to speak, will learn. It sounds kind of like it missing statement. I have to tell you, but it wasn't violence that ended their stay at the Bundy Ranch David nitrate says it was the button,

They realise that he was this trouble and asked him to leave A couple was at the ranch: Amanda lost her job at hobby lobby, the Miller's we're broke and can pay their run. A neighbor they'd befriended took them in until Sunday to eight too. Thousand fourteen that's the day Vegas emergency dispatchers field, a blizzard phone calls eleven twenty two and forty seconds to fully restore gardeners yard. You call a nagging one shot. The boy you better outside the anxiety the need to learn. I forgot my throne for the suspects on foot Jared. Amanda

The white male about twenty five or thirty female, that's about the same age. Very. My arm officers converge on the pizza place. You change your jurisdiction, firing. One more unit inside there's a horrific, see, theses. Now here's what happened! Officers Alan back and eager soda were. Lunch, CC's pizza, Amanda and jeered shot them point blank. The ambush lasted less than a minute. Cheered and and make off with the officers, weapons and ammunition they leave a dont tread on me flag with a rattlesnake on it, along with the swastika pin and no they aren't done yet. He sat down on now. Lord jeered Watson.

The nearby Walmart with a man, the foam region. George art, is our job. As guy came and yelling that there's a revolution coming to get out of Walmart that the police are coming and send that they will shoot out. Then you started shooting in the we ran out the back door on one call. A guy who fled Walmart says Other man with a handgun is still inside trying to stop the shooters you're. An advocate of dark Batman Joseph Wilcox, is following Jared and aims at him a nearby she fires her gun and kills Joseph with one shot inside the store, some costs

let's take cover with employees, Amanda and jeered exchange gunfire with officers. More involved are every hole in the end and the under takes her own life. A police officers bullet kills chair, it David Nigh, where it says german Amanda died. Trying to kill more police officers came to believe that the only proper response to police repression was gunfire em. They hack it on. Following the believes, the sovereign citizen movement. The Miller is headed to the shopping centre that day hell. Bent on resistance. They left the apartment they were living at earlier that morning, having told their room

but they were leaving that day with the express purpose of murdering police officers. That's research analysed Zoe Thorwaldsen there. Roommate didn't tell anyone by the way, because she didn't think they were serious. Zoe studied the attack for report that the Justice Department commissioned focusing on the police's tactical response security. Camera footage shows the Miller's loitering near the site of their attack for almost two and a half hours before they fired the first shot. So there is evidence that the Miller's were essentially waiting. That area for the opportunity to strike out against police? The officers died simply because they were in uniform, but what we found

that the two officers that lower ambush there's nothing in the decisions that they made. That could have been changed to prevent this incident, I must have had at least eight ten phone calls immediately. That's Gordon Martinez the Canada for LAS Vegas Sheriff. So what is your reaction when you first found out who the killers were that it was Jared in Amanda like why? Couldn't I have just listened to little voice and may be warm somebody as news reports identified the attackers. There was a reason: Gordon's phone rang off the hook in an interview at the Bundy Ranch Jarrett, had worn a certain t, shirt campaign to shoot a gourd Martinez for sheriff. Now people linked his campaign to two cop killers. He too this volunteers to stop wearing that shirt. I mean the Miller's left kind of a lot of bread crumbs before they did these horrible acts. All I know

no idea that did it would go this this far, usually what you how's somebody like that, just all mouth usually, but let's try a thought: expense. What if Jared and Amanda had been Muslim? Here's David again clearly Ben Muslim and talking about jihad. I think the approach to them would have been substantially different. The couple is Will the carry out a murderous plot, because no one they believed them. The feds sure didn't that's, despite the fact that the Overwhelming majority of attacks against police are by right wing extremists, not terrorist, claiming to act in the name of Islam. The investigative fun database makes that clear. So why do you think the danger that someone like the moors posed is treated so differently? The why

complex hateful rhetoric on the far right has become so commonplace. Many people ignore it David says: there's a reason. Isis related threats grab Morton a lot of it as a result of institutionalized steam racism because there they were white kids from Indiana who were just talking about shooting police. Nobody took a very seriously the fatal. Of officers, Alan back in eager solo, hit the vaguest police department, hard officer, Tyler tied used to patrol with officer sold out. Do you have a feeling like that could have been you absolute daddy de she she's Peter that they were eating it and when I had gone their several times, Zack same scenario knew no. We want the clock back. Malta to different could have been him in either Tyler's late

Colleagues left behind his wife and an infant son Use Brewing Gaia, policing. He was soon go role for people. It is, but. Knew what he was doing and actually teach another guy is new things could he was always always looking always learning is dismissed. That's why it aches for him to consider what everyone missed about the mill. Its frustrating and painful, to know how this transpired in. But if you sit learning about us, you're not gonna help. Anyway, That attack happened in twenty forty, so would be don't stop right wing tears today do Johnson

used to run in office the track those threats in the Department of Homeland Security. He says he was pushed out of his job after he released the it sounded the alarm about a resurgence of right wing extremists later that office was shut down. He now runs his own firm, Dt Analytics Darrell thanks for join me. I don't Well, when you warned about the rise of right wing extremism, Two thousand nine to the driver forces were an economic downturn and the election, the first black president, but right now the economy is doing. Ok, it's growing fast and Donald Trump is the president. So why haven't we move back from the precipice? Why do we keep going forward towards it? So why it's different this time? Is we have a president who who has mainstreamed extremists messages that I once heard on white nationalist message. Britain websites, you ten fifteen years ago. He

This is these terminology that almost service dog whistles to the extremists fringe. You know using terms such as nationalist to describe himself and his views using term like invaders to describe the immigrant caravan coming up through sent America to the? U S southern border. When extreme is here the word nationalist. They hear the word White Nationalist In it resonate with them when they hear that invader they hear threat from immigrants, and so you see Yo militia groups, mobilizing to go down and support the: U S, troops to monitor the southern border in thinking that they have the right to do this. Have you seen anything from the White House to curb this rising tide under the Trump administration. I've. Being virtually zero. We have countering by on extremism programme that was stood up under President Obama in today

seventeen there was a group called life after hate was the very first time where we had non government organizations that was applying for a federal grant to actually reach out two white nationalists and try to get them out of the movement. Try to help them become less radicalized enough funding was pulled under the Trump Administration So you have. The present has really done much too to stem this problem and in fact Is you know when we had Charlottesville? Last year he tried to cast blue. Aim on both the anti for extremists, as well as the all round extremist one way. Hate spreads is through social media robber, Bowers, put up an anti semitic post before he shot and killed. Eleven people at the tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh. He used in extreme is friendly cycle gap because companies like Twitter and Facebook are starting to police. Their platforms. Darrell says that can have unintended consequences.

Whenever you you attempt to ban these people who are making this hateful rhetoric? we website. All you do is scattering the rats to we'll go to another location and exploit that. So I thought passive monitoring, is a better solution, because that way you allow the extremists to vent in and share their hatred or what have you and you have an opportunity to actually not only identify these people but monitor their speech in their activities. If it crosses that line or shows an escalation like mobilization towards violence, and that was what we were yo hatred or what have you and you have an opportunity to actually not only a den of five these people, but mom There are threatening rhetoric and actually converted into violent action. Nobody at the federal government doing that anymore, Dale jars. Thank you so much for talking to me today. I appreciated

thank you they'll Johnson, Wednesday, analytics located. Outside Washington DC thanks violent action. There's nobody at the when we first read the show homeland Security sent us a statement in it. They rejected the criticism there overly focused on any particular group or element in the fight against terrorist. They say they concentrate on all threats to the homely and worked closely with state local in federal law enforcement today show was produced by Catherine, Miss Gower, ski and lead producer. Stand outward show devolves are editor thanks to our partners at the investigator fun incur being editor Esther Kaplan reporter David Network and researcher dare in Ankara? You can see the entire domestic terrorism database at reveal news dot, Org thanks our data team for their work on that, including the Jennifer for the floor and reporters got fan backtracking from Harry

Rowan and a manual Martinez production, men, when they gonna hawser are sound design team is the dynamic dual J Breezy, Mr Jim data team for their work. On that, including editor Jennifer the floor. No clear, Merlin, Caitlin, bins, r C Oscars Sharpsburg, our senior supervising editors talk, you tell it needs our executive producers Kevin Solid support. Reveals provided by the Raven David Logan Foundation, the John D, and can T Macarthur Foundation the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation beforehand, nation, the Housing Simons Foundation and ethics and excellence in journalism foundation reveal Our executor producers, Kevin Solid support for veal, is provided by the Raven David Loading Foundation, the John D and Kevin Team, Macarthur Foundation, the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation before Foundation, the hiding Simons Foundation and ethics in exile.

These are last few shows of the year, and let me tell you in twenty twenty we are bringing the fire launching some of our most ambitious projects we ve ever done. I can wait for you to hear them reveal is all about going deep, pulling on threads telling stories that matter and this kind of investigative journalism. Well, it takes time and it costs money. These are the final weeks end of the year membership campaign. We depend on listeners like you to help make this work possible to support us just takes. The word reveal to four seven four, seven, four seven standard data rates apply and you can take stop or cancel at any time again. Just takes a word ravine I'll do for seven, four, seven, four, seven! Let's go! Do some good work together.