There’s been a lot of conversation about whether Donald Trump has inspired a new wave of hate in America.
Reveal reporter Will Carless set out to understand the president’s role in hundreds of hate incidents across the country, with help from the Documenting Hate project led by ProPublica. He found a striking pattern that extended across races, religions and sexual orientation. We also examine what’s going on inside the government agency that’s supposed to be fighting discrimination, the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division. And we ask what it takes for bystanders in hate speech incidents to become allies.
Don’t miss the next big story. Get the Weekly Reveal newsletter today.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I grew up in the south and as a black man, I don't remember a time I haven't heard racial slurs. Now it didn't happen every day, but every now and then that ugliness
pop up and would remind me of where I was out on me
the south, I mean America, we liked it
as a society. We ve come a long way and we have, but lately that ugliness than many thought we left behind seems to be popping up with more frequency before we get started,
morning. Some of the speech in the following story gets really ugly
over the past
eighteen months. The people we ve spoken with have reported hearing stuff like that.
And then he said ass. She is money by people as they want in the back thirty Muslims ere. He, then, why? Don't you go back to China, where you came from your that's your country, all you,
advocacy group's report, rising incidence of Islamophobia, Anti Semitism violence and intolerance against the algae Bt Q community
to dive into the numbers reveals collaborating on a project called documenting hate last year than
private newsroom pro publicly started. Collecting accounts of hate speech and hate crimes across the country reveals hate. An extreme is more poor. Will Carlos Dover the more than four thousand of those incidents, as he sifted one word surfaced early and forceful tramp tramp tramp tramp tramp tramp tramp tramp tramp more than three hundred people reported
that they directly experienced or witness verbal attacks explicitly in the name of the president will followed up with more than a hundred and fifty those from thirty nine states, either by speaking with victims or witnesses or by matching the incidents with news reports or other documentation is more what will found out the forty fifth President, Donald J Trump launched his political career by challenging the citizens.
And legitimacy of the forty. Fourth president, Barack Obama, people are trying to figure out. Why isn't he giving his present Africa is not a birth certificate, then, as he announced his camp,
pain for the White House. He stereotyped mexican immigrants,
bringing drugs they bring
crime there rapist
and some, I assume, are good people. The first part of that message, resonated with
sense of Trump space after he became president. The New York Times reported Trump saying the fifteen thousand,
patient immigrants who receive visas for the United States all have aids. Cbs news reported trumps remark
the Nigerian to emigrate to the: U S: only do
by leaving huts behind participants in a way
house meeting on immigration say they heard the president using obscenity to describe caribbean and african nations terms denied all of these states
But here's how we criticise the lottery for? U S, visas from people from developing countries that are giving it a best names. Common sense means they're, not giving it a vast names they giving you people that they don't want. The american politics have been full of rationalized dope.
Songs, democratic and republican candidates have defended state sovereignty to maintain sex
education and to fend off federal civil rights. Those appealing
the so called silent Majority White Americans, wary of federal efforts to address racial inequality, helped Republican Richard Nixon win the presidency in nineteen sixty eight
other candidates of hopped on undeserving welfare queens and raise the spectre of Hoddan.
Criminals, release from prison to rape and murder. Unlike earlier politicians, Trump doesn't bother with coding his language and like plays, and twisted game
telephone, his followers of ain't, similar language of people. They say: don't belong in this country and that's when he out that me fucking never go back to Africa. A slave ship is floating trot, specifically yelled out
trot with his arm out the air in San Diego Melissa Johnson tells me how she just emerged from a trader Jos, grocery store
when a stranger driving a new looking Bmw slowed down and shouted. I think complete shock militias, almost forty she's dealt with by us pretty much your entire life
But the signals used to be subtle security guards, keeping a close watch on her ignored.
Drums. An elderly woman in the elevator clutching a hand back a little bit tighter EDA. These people, like I said, were hidden under rocks hiding in caves. They weren't they they may were keeping to themselves and their garages. You know saluting to their flags or whatever
These days there statements in public on social media striker, like hatred with a presidential seal of approval.
Now that they have a leader in office. Now now there are able to do whatever they want, and that's exactly how I feel is that Trump has given these people so much power that they feel as though there also running the country. That's what change is that these horrible ugly people now have a voice, and I'm so tired of hearing it, because I've heard of my entire life,
It was whispers before now, they're young. She says the words from the Bmw drivers stung. He was I
is the immediate bags? What happened next was almost worse tat people, at least twenty people standing around outside just staring, and I say
anything not defending me? Nothing really! One dozen does not go back to my car and I sat in my card. I cried. I cried
I reported this story. One thing became very clear when the most
powerful man on earth, Donald
a drum makes a statement was called,
for a total and complete shutdown of muslim
entering the United States, a jail
countries representatives can figure out what
hell is going on
His followers are willing to echo it out in the open
terrorist one line,
the ban on a bigger one thought of something like that. You become a very hard and you look like you know. Some concrete, though you are you're like the country, has been over there you're doing everything.
Concrete, you very bad Mohammed caress. She is a manager at Washington, DC area marry her tell. He says that before, during and after the election, he faced
so many anti muslim taunts. He briefly changed his name tag from whom it to John, because my whole with my country, I can do anything for my country about one company conveyed you're you're in the glare Bianca go back, but that mark that, like let us make me like in tears out looking to you a couple time. Mohammed places the blame squarely on the new president sent from big campaigns. Eleven April over here could have coming out now argue the mob, as I call more than eighty people from California to Maine,
They said they also believed that torment is felt embolden, empowered granted impunity. I had this from Muslims and Jews from game
an Lesbians and Latinos Asian Americans, even from a couple of white people who said that
thought harasses singled amount just because I dont curly head. Why shouldn't matter if people ashore
nasty things at each other in Saint trumps name when they do it well, beyond the lamps and common Kersey, woods do hurt and scare people
I spoke with many who, like militia, felt deeply upset and unsafe after unprovoked confrontations with name coins is also strongly
the lowest slinging hateful words more people acting on hateful intentions in the name of Trump
Remember, for example, how a protest it was killed and dozens more people were hurt.
Right wing rally. Last August and Charlottesville Virginia camps, words and trams. Targets have had a real world effect in terms of crime. Heidi bear its heads, the intelligence project of the southern Poverty LAW centre. There are many instances in that data where the person committing the crime. The hate crime was specifically inspired by truck they.
Better use transcend. They have trump on their social media feeds. Their are indications that the connection is exact, funded and fifty cases ice.
Studied included several violent incidents like one last
very when a man on a scooter ran a gay couple off the road and far off the screaming. You live in Trump country now or a case in point,
CS, wear white man yelling. This is for Trump beat up a latino man
Heidi says nor, for major sees collects such inconsistent data on hate crimes. We simply don't know how many take place. The FBI only reports about six thousand a year of the Bureau of Justice Statistics has been clear that there are about two hundred and fifty thousand hate crimes year in the: U S that research
with a federal justice Department, concedes that people also tend to under report these crimes. The department describes these axes: physical harm and criminal threats based on race, color, national origin, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability. White supremacist, like Rigid Spencer, David Dude rejoiced at the result of the last presidential election to them Trump clean
embodied their world view that for America to return to greatness white people would need to maintain their social, economic and political power over people of other races,
For the first time, we really saw a successful candidate, coalesce extreme white Nationalists
to a real, tangible, socio political movement, Brian Levin, who heads the centre for the study of hate and extremism, a cow State University, San Bernardino spent decades studying tray
in hate. He has a theory about why so many people who fear a changing America consider the forty fifth president, an ally, thirty six percent of Americans say White are under attack. Fourteen percent say whites are under attack and people of color aren't because of demographic.
Political conditions, terrorism, immigration and-
when they had an outspoken
unusual iconoclastic leader they found it and Donald Trump. I am not saying this will be for the stories debate about the President's own state, the own feelings, but what I can tell you is they ve been interpreted by
and he coalescing force for legions of white nationalists who had been
organizing in ways that we haven't seen in decades
for this story. I left several phone and email messages with the White House and got no response. Some of the present support is pledged to act on their interpretations of what he said, including
an extreme the idea that America is a white country created by and for white people held from hell our people.
EL victory in various forms, that message is even made its way into the classrooms of kids as young as elementary school. This is Tom swore ten year old, Coolio Stevens Rosanna tells me how, just after the election, a kitten is class stacked, building blocks into walls, so it could separate
the white students from their black latino schoolmates in Denver, suburb of Alvardo, Colorado, colleagues, parents, jury, Stevens and Tar Rosa adopted cleanest
two siblings about seven years ago. Back then, this couple felt pretty hopeful about raising three black kids in a town. That's one percent
african American. You know they had an amazing example of a president and how
should behave and that president looked like them and he was educated and he took care of all people. The most recent election changed the social equation for all.
Stevens, raising the kids colleagues, thirteen year old sister, our Leah describes what a classmate told her shortly after Trump became president
he said, ashes money back people as they want in the back. Then this happened to the middle child eleven year old. Chris, these kid they thought it was funny.
Be saying, wreck the inward and worded may start saying around me, and so the like other families. I've talked with the Stevens Righteousness say what happened at their kids. Schools reflects an atmosphere. They called toxic Torah whose Korean American was adopted into a white family. She how wife and kids like to visit her
since at their house about fifteen minutes away. Yes, somebody in our family wanted to hang the confederate flaccid we're not coming over.
Can better reflect not wallets hanging, but never again and Nay said, but it's it's a symbol and is it correct the symbol of hatred,
jury says the resurgence of symbols and language. They objective requires a lot of energy to fight each day. You just need to push harder and you need to make it better for your children because they need
be able to live comfortably in the skin therein everywhere that they go because in the present atmosphere, hate crimes can follow hate speech the feed
Air borne from that hate may be impossible to measure, but it's enough to keep ten year old, collegial Stevens rose nor awake and worried
like a nice tom, I think about what could happen is totally did.
Did succeed in what he was planning to do
She hopefully white, but would you
think Trump wants to do. I'm scared
he's. Trying to create a white world reveals we'll call has brought us a story
special thanks to our partners on the story, but public it put to you.
An animated video you can see on our Facebook or twitter feed. When we come back, we hear from a Trump true believers who help pages way to the White House politics. It has always been brutal in the United States. Americans love fight.
You're, listening to reveal from the centre for investigative reporting can p r eggs from the centre for investigative reporting in p r. Ex this is reveal a reality
the break we heard from we'll Carla's on how some of president trumps supporters feel inspired to spread hateful messages, we'll try to reach the present for comment, but the White House did respond to his calls and emails. But last summer I spoke to someone pretty familiar with the ins and outs of the president's approach to politics. Former Trump campaign adviser register
where's your first meet MR trouble? I met him in nineteen. Seventy nine. When I was sent to New York to organise Governor Reagan's campaigning for president. What made you think he could be a politician.
As a certain charisma, certain
tourism, although its greater than that the Wall Street Journal ports that
actual investigator, Robert Mahler is investigating any links between stone and wiki leaks foundered. Julian Assange, Wiki leaks release their trove of democratic National Committee emails before the choice. Sixteen election, while stone is criticized tramp, he told us, he council
as a your finger on stone, also told magnetic it's really hard working with former presidents politics here
told me what you learn by working with former presidents politics. It has always been brutal in the United States is the way we like it. People like the conflict, they like a fight. Americans love a fight, so you didn't start the dirty tricks. You just
continued the legacy of oh, I just took them into the internet age. I guess no. Politics has always been rough and tumble one man's dirty tricksters another.
Its freedom fighter stone, describes himself as a dirty trickster learned his trade from a master. When you bore the voters, they look elsewhere to someone or candidate who is more interesting. You have an office, its fill with Nixon memorabilia
you have a huge said to have Nixon. Oh you back use, Nixon signature, two hands up meeting, clearly he's a really big influence on your life. Here he is, I think, now, with the benefit of retrospect.
He's one of the greatest president's we ve ever had. So there was a campaign stretch
you that Nixon use called the southern strategy which use race as a wedge issue on matters such as segregation and buzzing to appeal to white Southerners
and two thousand five kinmen ahead of the currency apologize for it, but in the two thousand
sixteen election trump and by virtue use
to use the same strategy, but you expand it to include Muslims Latinos immigrants. Is that a dirty trick question? I reject your analysis of Nixon's campaign strategy, one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight
Koreans. Look back at what happened during the Nixon campaign and they tagged it as the southern strategies. A lot worries store. Historians are by and large liberals.
And that is a biased view,
Nixon's, southern two thousand and five speaks only for the head of the that apologized for specifically for the
southern strategy Zander Mail that speaks only for himself. I think at that time you speaking for the currency, while that that may be maybe there's some calculation there. I don't think when it comes to civil rights, Richard Nixon
anything to apologize for to bring it forward and to say that we should freeze immigration from certain
countries until we have a better way of vetting
and revealing those who apply to come to this country? That's not bigoted or racist, that's common sense. Both Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter did so in specific into
Susan Carter's case blocking all immigration from IRAN during the iranian hostage crisis ceiling our borders permanently from immigrants from those countries. That would be bigoted, but that's not what the president has proposed. The president's third attempt at a travel ban on six majority muslim countries is in effect now, but sixteen states are fighting it and the Supreme Court is expected to rule on the case this June. The president's is the ban is necessary to protect the country, but all these states are calling a discrimination, so I stole the president just wants to keep
muslim people? Out of? U S, I I don't know. I just don't agree with that that with that interpretation, I think this is. My interpretation is specifically what like Trump persuasion. Let would you like to? Would you let two hundred thousand immigrants from Syria in without knowing who each one of them are despicable
The young men, by the way, is there some possibility that some of them could be criminals or terrorist. Is that possible? I think it's likely actual. I think that is a possibility that if you get any group or feeble together, they're gonna be people in that group that have bad intentions. Absolutely I did and
a view with a counter terrorism expert who said the number one terrorists in America are white.
And who were going out and stabbing people on trains who were not set them where the crime statistics on that give me can examples. Sorry, that's nonsense! Luck this! This is really really simple. We
seen a pattern of illegals killing people in this country. We ve seen a pattern of everyday Americans killing people, I'm saying like in any population. You're gonna have better
There's no offense advice about one illegal immigrant kills one american citizen. Then the system has failed. If one white supremacy,
there are no rights and promises. My friend, this is a tiny. This is a tiny microcosm of the United States. The cook Klux clean today is funded by the federal guard.
Those are all hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on. Let's lives, rewind a little bit less rewind. This both of us take a deep breath.
They would have. I got an argument which I can't let you just say things that our true so go ahead. You just said that there are no white supremacist are
virtually none the whole. No, since, if there's some giant constituency of white supremacist in the country is a joke, I have interviewed white supremacist
and I can tell you that they are there. There are white supremacist organizations,
you can go online and find federal government. If you went to a clan meeting today, most of the people there are government informants. This is a tiny group of freaks. This is a tiny group of misfits and we can we focus a little bit. I'm totally focused
Ok, so so explain this to me, then, because I want to what you
and for you to explain how limit? Let me tell you what I don't understand. Ok, I think we re here we're going to do
agree about whether there are white supremacist in this country. We can disagree about that. I think that what I don't understand is you said most of the white supremacist that you see at a coup plus clan rally are working for the government. Explain that to me. Yes, the government continues to pay people, as in
foremans- and this is kind of propped up that movement- I'm not going say there are no white supremacist. That would be ridiculous
I would say that or killed me correct myself. There are virtual going on sorry. Are you going to tell me that more people were killed in this country by white supremacist than illegal immigrants? Are you going to claim that cause? That's false! That's just not try! That's Jai right! I would say you can look at the history of this country and you can trace how
white supremacist have terrorize people who are different in this country. Minorities have terrorize, black people have terrorized, Latinos have terrorized indigenous people in this country is a part of our history,
We can't deny in eighteen ninety I really think you're seeing a tremendous, a problem that doesn't ring.
They exist in a wholesale basis. First, while I denounce white supremacist, I have nothing in common with them, but I I have
can all over the country, and I've been many. Many many conservative meetings
I've never seen the people you're talking about. I think they are.
Minority and I dont know that
counter terrorism expert interviewed, so I can't speak to his credentials. Emmy. Let me explain this to you
Emma african american men, who grew up in the south- and I can tell you that I have seen white supremacist- I can tell you
that there is a large contingency of of them in the south. I can tell you that they may
I wish they may not burn
us on your laws, but they are there and I can.
I you them as a white man who lives in Harlem. I am threatened all the time all the time on the streets. So us not pretend that that problem, doesn't it
This is a minority in both extremes. Okay, so it's! So let's do this. Let's do this! All right race in America is a complicated issue. Yes, it's a very complicated issue.
And I live my life in one lands and you lived in another and we see the world differently. But let me ask you this. I went and looked at your twitter feed and I saw some of the trees that you have put out there, and some of those tweets could be categorized as racists
in some. I'm curious, like you say you have nothing in common with white supremacist, but yet you tweet it role in Martin, saying who is this stupid, negro Roller, Martin, buffoon or token before I've actually apologized for that particular tweet,
just to point this out is a lot of no desire was marching with reverent sharpen against New York States, racist drug laws. The so called Rockford
Drug laws fifteen years ago, so
Should I have supported so much everyone, gay marriage initiative in the state of Florida, where I'm a resident, so don't call me a racist or a big it cause. I am neither based on one tweet that was probably other less Ambrose lids lids list again
let's breathe a little bit and get on the same level. I am asking about things that you tried that you asked about women s wheel. I've got like five us and in a mask and us and we could go through them. I've been asked this a hundred times
the same answer. I gave another hundred times. Yes, I'm sorry these statements sound like racism. I say, as you have you never said anything.
I did in your long career on your short short amr they're. Not I I can't I egg. Yes, I have absolutely said plenty
things that ever Grannie ten and I'm challenges for, and I apologise for that- it was intemperate, it was. It was an error in error. Roger stones
He may have made more than one error. A couple years ago, he claimed a pro tromp. Russians were behind emails, that wiki leaks released during the twenty. Sixteen democratic national convention
That's why special council robber Mahler is looking into stone as a part of his investigation into Trump in Russia? Why should we believe you
One of stones rules is didn't. I didn't I didn't I
so if that's what you're rules were, unless you have some evidence to the contrary, you don't
to believe me. You don't even have to have me on your radio program. You know I put it out there if, if you have some proof, I'd like this,
those former Trump adviser, Roger Stone, dear my full, and
be with him check out our biogas.
Earlier. This episode with
but how Americans, echoing the president's words, have scared many people in this country. Some people work under Trop feel that way too. We found ourselves
a sort of whistling past the graveyard trying to talk ourselves into feeling like it won't. It won't be,
as bad as we feared that it might be sure Miguel.
Was a senior turning at the Justice Department, civil rights division when Trump entered the White House and appointed Jeff sessions, as attorney general, given some of the things that both men have said
and Sharon was worried about everything from eligibility rights to whether the government would abandon efforts to deal with police violence, since in Jeff Sessions has overseen some big changes. Em around the department has plummeted, reveals errand sank in has been looking at. How all this could affect civil rights in America, AIR Hale, so the civil rights Division has investigated these
destinations of Martin Luther King Jr, MEG, reverence and police departments for violating the rights of minorities like Ferguson Missouri. What's the difference under President Trump, an attorney general sessions to recently a document leaked out the Justice Department and it showed sessions five year plan for the agent
Previous plans, like under the Obama administration, listed protecting civil rights as a top priority, but under sessions going after
I commented immigrants in pursuing leakers inside the government or are closer to the top of the list. Justice still prosecutes individual hate crimes to be sure and
and sessions is very loud about those efforts, but that apartment hasn't
lotta ways really backed off from attacking systematic issues like reforming, problematic police departments and working to combat algae BT discrimination in the workplace.
You started looking into. What's going on with the civil rights of vision, but senior officials won't talk, so he spoke to former officials, including people were there after Donald Trump entered the White House. Tell me about them.
Well, let's go back to share in Mcgowan. Do we heard from a moment ago
She was a senior attorney in the appellate section and she prosecuted police brutality cases and she worked to get the Obama administration to stop defending the defence of Marriage ACT which
the federal government from recognising same sex marriages now she's in a same sex marriage herself with a partner in two kids. So when Trump was a
did? She was really worried. My second daughter was actually born
months previously, she was born in September of twenty sixteen, and I remember my first instinct after the election in a results were announced. Is that my wife and I needed to get our second daughter for Passport immediately
because I was concerned that, under a Trump Pence administration, the state depart
may no longer think that its appropriate for a child to have to same sex parents, so they were lit.
We in that moment there was a very personal visceral sense of threat. Share says that the threat didn't stop at her family life. It extended into her work as a civil rights attorney.
For those first few weeks after the election, I really walked around
Think, with a very dark cloud of doom
cast over my shoulders and then in one Jeff sessions was nominated. I think there was almost like a second blow that the folks in this
rights, division experience, because we all knew how serious that decision had been to nominate Jeff sessions. So what specifically about Joseph
his words or so much sessions has a long history of opposing algae BT rights as a lawmaker, he said
boarded a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage and he voted against expanding the definition of hate crimes to include attacks on people based on their gender or sexual identity.
Obviously there are concerns about his record on race right. Those concerns have dog sessions throughout his long career and government. They
caused him to lose out on a nomination to become a federal judge back in the nineteen eighties. So it's understandable that Sharon was worried. Knowing is it of that? There is such a set of broad antipathy in his record to civil rights
I knew then in particular, I would be really in the hot seat, with respect to this new administering
agenda and in particular Jeff sessions, anti civil rights agenda. So what to shared said do well
He laughed she joined Lambda Legal, which is a non profit. That's challenging trump over algae BT rights, but the decision it was really tough on her
share and even got a little
emotional telling me about the day she told her supervisor. She was resigning funny that it's almost
and a half later and I'm getting choked up so sorry about that. But that night it was interesting because I
his home, and I was watching one of the tv news programmes and that night was when
the attorney general sallies inform the president that the Justice Department would not defend the Muslim been dramatic, whether to department attorneys
the question whether the immigration band was consistent with this institution. Solemn
nation to our wasted justice and stand for what is right- and I remember thinking in it- that's my
does department? Maybe maybe I jumped ship too soon like there are good people that are left at the Justice Department, who won't just hand over the key
then let it all go to pots, and then, of course, we all came back from commercial break and found that celebrates had been fired,
Sally AIDS Corner of the White House has betrayed the department of Justice by refusing to enforce a legal, and I felt in some ways like it was the year
first trying to reassure me that
I hadn't jumped ship too soon that I wasn't overreacting, that my concerns were well pleased, so cells. I share and made the right decision for her, but I'm curious are their people still working in the Justice Department? That field
she does now. You know how I was wondering that myself, so I file the Freedom of Information ACT request to get the results of these opinion. Surveys taken by all Justice Department
There were questions about how they liked their jobs or their perceptions of their bosses. You know just basic work stuff and I started comparing the results for people in the civil rights division between twenty sixteen under Obama and twenty seventeen under Trump. The difference was striking
so for the question. My organization, senior leaders maintain high standards of honesty and integrity. The percentage of people answering yes drop from about seventy percent. To just forty two percent for the question. I have a high
The level of respect for my organization, senior leaders, positive responses experienced almost an identical drop and again this all happened within the span of a single year yeah, but I mean come on administrations change and especially, if there's a switch,
parties. You know I can imagine that there's always little tension in the transition was different about this situation. So yeah the White House does change hands from party the party and different parties do have different ideologies, and all of that does have a real effect on the
justice department actually spoke about this with a guy named Jerry, Hubert. Now Jerry works, the camping legal center, but before that he worked in the civil rights division under five different president's. He actually started under Richard next
in which from how he tells it seems like a bit of an adventure- oh boy them,
I was quite high. We were really the civil rights division,
really rolling along for several months and then within
Few months after I started, we had the famous Saturday night massacre. He remember your history. The Saturday night massacre was when Nixon, basically decapitated, the Justice Department. He did it by firing the top leadership as part of an effort,
two became bury the Watergate investigation. He fired the special prosecutor to the whole Justice Department was in an uproar and frankly,
it took a few years for the Justice Department to kind of fun get back on its feet:
things were pretty crazy.
Connection, but Jerry says
There is nothing he's ever seen that compares to what's happening under Trump sure. I felt that some administration
more vigorously wanted to enforce this,
but none of the administrations that I mentioned
really wanted to undermine
they running the civil rights Division, who really don't believe in the law, and so it isn't that they just aren't gonna win force it. They are actually going to try to take steps to undermine
political appointees, temporarily running the civil rights Division, who really
Can you give me some specific about what he saw him about here? One of Jerry's big concerns here is about voting. First, there is the way the Trump administration reversed. The government's position in a whole bunch of important a voting rights cases does also the fact that truck its putting forward these allegations of massive widespread voter fraud like just a few weeks ago, he repeated these claims that millions of people, including a whole bunch of undocumented immigrants, had voted illegally and,
forward. These allegations of massive widespread voter fraud like just a few weeks ago. He repeated these claims that millions of people, including a whole bunch of undocumented immigrants, had voted
done that really damages the democracy as an institution and our country is that comments like
about that. There was like to say that's a conspiracy theory, not a conspiracy theory. Folks, millions and millions of people
done, that really damages the democracy
as an institution and our country is that comments like
millions of illegals, voting, the false claims of voter fraud and the rest. They re
He served to undermine the legitimacy of the government and our election system, and just for the record here there
no evidence at all that there is massive, widespread voter fraud
happening in America at that scale. None. So we see what these surveys have to say that respect and leadership has really gone down, but
what's Jerry and share in hearing from their contacts within the agency. They both say that there's a lot of fear in there
Karen says sometimes it sort of feels like people are living in the cold war. I recently had coffee with a couple friends- and I described it to someone later as feeling like they were.
The EAST Berlin side of checkpoint charlie- and I was on the West Berlin side, and I was calling over the wall the sort of innocent. Let them know do not give up that. We haven't forgotten about them because there is, as is tremendously
of of demoralization, and I think every lawyer in this avoids division is probably going through that weighing process every day of. Do I stay? Do I go while Sharon did quit, she says she's supporting the people.
Staying put in Jerry's doing the same thing, encouraging people to stick around and fight the good fight. I have encouraged
people who are in the summer rights vision today not to leave, but what I've also encouraged him to do is to talk to people about.
What is going on inside the civil rights
vision. I'm in many of them are afraid and will not talk to the press.
You have will not talk to people like me over the phone, because they
he'll their phones or go to be tapped, but ultimately I think that
They should be doing that. It does take a certain amount of courage to stand up for what you believe in and if you're not gonna, do that, then you just really taken
space, which is not necessarily a bad thing, because the space you're taken up could be taken by somebody who would really do bad things. But you know with all that said: people keep leaving the civil rights division and still
no one has been appointed to run it on a permanent basis. For such an important part of the federal government were really in uncharted territory. Here, that's reveals Aaron thinking he and we'll Carl
right the weekly hate report on our website errand, thanks for coming at any time when we come back, what does it mean and what does it take to respond effectively to?
speech here, listening to reveal centre for investigative reporting, p r,
from the centre for investigative reporting in p r ex this is reveal I'm Alison. Imagine you, in a public place on the sidewalk
or a shopping centre or in a subway.
A person with in you shall start shouting at somebody else doesn't look like the
sound, familiar like and not too distant him
get the hell out of here. Will you please
about the show.
Close enough for you to see echoing those words, I was coming home on the seven line which goes from it
on Manhattan and queens and fairly
gentlemen, that was being loud and disruptive
and he was on rant pretty epic grant the House how Donald Trump was
to get all of the dirty immigrants out of the country. What would you do when you and other people,
So we see and hear this guy Elizabeth Kin, sick,
an actor musician with a day. Job and Tec is right. There, the tension grow
as he goes on and on she said.
And the man seemed to see
and narrow in his focus on whoever he found on that train car. That was different and it happened to be two women
we're sitting across for me, too, were asian loose with, as a safety can honour jacket to sing
She doesn't go for Rachel name. Calling I heard about this safety pen idea, which was too
visibly where a statement on your clothing. That said that you were a safe person to come to. If there was a threat or a conflict,
and I thought it was a cool idea and I happen to have it
safety pen like footing my person just kind of through it on me.
Genes jacket I just wanted to
Visually represent that trump.
My fault, which is such a look,
old lady thing to say:
on the subway. She makes up her mind to do something I can
looked around to see what other people were reacting to what they were saying, and I met eyes with a guy that was down the way who also happens to be wearing a safety. Then I kind of motion like I was gonna stand up and he stood up to and we just put ourselves between the sky was ranting, and these two women- and
our backs to em? Nobody would,
or did Elizabeth experience on subway all over
you too, though, people have posted footage of other transit passengers speaking up
slurs and protecting their turns. Looking in my mind, is now we're all in this together woman and run it. That's why you are you running? The guy was ranting.
Does this train car finally left? But all these standoffs don't in the same way as ever,
last may and allay real station in Portland Oregon. But we say this man verbally
tat, a muslim woman on a train and that, when good Samaritans, Kay
for the help he stabbed them to death,
turning to hate can get you killed along with Elizabeth
say to fit where activists Marisa Johnson joining the studio to talk about what it means to act like an ally. In these times, people disagree about the most effective ways to do that. The safety pin has been criticised as inadequate empty response to a systemic problem.
Mercer, and business farther clad back dead symbol with what they call the safety pin Box each month. Subscribers pay up to a hundred dollars for science, from people of color about how to resist structural inequality. There's a whole lot of allies
It doesn't have any me behind it, no teeth right, but it soon.
To me that way,
was going on on the eve of the subway was a little bit different because you know Elizabeth was actually putting herself in the line of danger. There's this illusion that if you face one,
You know even moment out of danger that, like it's like, let's give you like a badge, Mr Right, and you know you look at all this great things that you did and the real
it is our lives are on the line all the time, and so, if you're going to enter into this work with as a has to be with us, there's no white saviours has to be informed by us and be it needs to be strategic so that you actually don't put as more and harm yeah. I hear that I would say on that train incident, which it seems
lifetime ago. Now it was not a decision that I made with a plan you're right about that Mercer I saw somebody who is in distress while to women who are in distress who were fighting to not cry in the face of this bully and dumb
I got up? I made eye contact I mouth to them. Are you ok? They said yes, I said
I'm gonna stand here, and they said yes, I mean
are we going to stand up and act as a barrier, but I think it gave other people courage too.
Not ignore what was going on Elizabeth said. She would have acted whether or not she was wearing a safety. Then
the close of our conversation almost of handily she mentioned that she doesnt weird anymore. If I really search my heart about that, it's because I got such slapped back
here. Nobody wants to be misunderstood for their intentions and that car
are with the safety
Then, and just being a flippant,
display of involvement was
What I wanted to portray,
The recent wasn't thrilled with the way the subway incident played out
You know what Elizabeth described is as that you, no more people as she put it, are doing something and that's a good thing and that's not true,
I wanted to know more about why she said that, because well, Elizabeth was trying to help so Morrison. I talked a second time
For the last conversation it felt like
The only way that someone can be in our ship is to do it strictly. The way that you kind of lay out so can you tell me like what
your philosophy or would sure you thought about how our ship she work. White people have been continually asking us throughout this black lives matter movement. What can we do? What can we do? I dont know what to do.
And yet I don't know that there really ready for the answer. You know it can't be a gesture that you dont, think about that you just throw on if you are actually committed to
yourself in your children, are communities living in a different world. That's a lifestyle,
Ellen you have to make a lifestyle change and it has to be accountable to
meaning that you say that you want to serve Marisa basis or business model of the idea of accountability. In the last year she says the safety PIN Box has distributed over two hundred thousand dollars to black women activists without apology risk and her business partner call what they're doing a form of reparations and away.
Monetize white killed. We live in a country where everybody is paid for their work are supposed to be, but was,
historically. An issue is that black, when
I have been at the forefront of every single black revolutionary movement and all of these
women that you know, Ella Baker, Fanny Lou Hammer died destitute. This work is not a game you're supposed to do this work that puts your life on the line that prevents you from from getting other work. That has even scenarios were way
Two premises are doc, seeing and putting your family's information online, and we just don't believe that the solution
two problems that arose out of slavery, is doing
another form of slavery. So let say
Imagine a world, I'm a white person. I see
somebody acting really races towards another person of color and I feel like. I need to do something, and maybe I don't do anything
in my regular life to change anything. But but this thing like really makes me uncomfortable and I feel like I need to step up and do something. What would you say to that person? While I would say to the core,
the goal, I hope, and that is to ensure the safety of whoever is being harmed in the situation
in part of how you want to do that. As to de escalate, the situation you ve got to emulate. Yo the sea has had a horrible game, or did you watch that Super bowl or you know? What do you think of this movie? There's always different ways that you can. You know tried to distract this person right that work,
I wish the same goal. It felt like in the previous conversation that you were saying that people should not get involved in those six,
patients unless they understand specifically how to be.
A good ally. I think when people say I gotta do something: it's not necessarily driven
I and their actual capabilities to help de escalate. The situation is driven by their discomfort of being faced. Face to face with
this person being belligerent embraces the thing is about being equipped right,
I'm. I'm always gonna, hope that, before you jump out of a plain that you had some training on how to release Europe areas, you re the safety penance boast a signal that you're gonna be an interventionist of some sort, and the thing is: if you think that you might ever be in that position, ever take some precautions and thinks of the process to make sure the victim safety and well being always matters. Most bristle also hoped would be allies who say they want to.
Big stand, will think about what they ve been willing to accept up until now and similar to the reaction that people have a trap. Re like people that tramples kind of funny
Are you ok or whatever, but now, for the reason why you see people kind of fallen back a little bit is because now its undeniable it's in your face and why people are really uncomfortable at that. Even
they're, ok, with racism. On the day to day, I have you're, not
already doing work in your life? That's not something that's important to you! Then you're! Ok, with
society that maintains white supremacy, you're, ok with a society that creates these people and allows them to flourish, but what you're? Not ok with it, is being confronted on the subway with
we need to see it with having the here with having to be uncomfortable activists, Marisa jobs and his co, founder of the safe to pin box thanks to her and Elizabeth cancer for their willingness to talk.
Through this tough subject,
Michael, Montgomery, catch, ethnic and Amy Waters produces weeks episode showed of all
Georgia thanks to reveals.
Any Donoghue and John O Leary for their help this week, special thanks crow public.
For running the document in a project and for creating jobs
I shall enemy to video for this project. You can see it on
either about twitter or Facebook accounts,
Our production manages windy and also our sound design team is the dynamic. Do a J, breezy, Mister Jimmy Briggs and Fernando my man, Yo Aruba, Christophe, hamburgers,
accuracy. Eel Amy, Pasok, editor in chief executive producers, Kevin Solvent. I see music is by Colorado, lightning support for
feels provided by the Raven David Logan Foundation, the John D and can T Macarthur Foundation the janitor Logan.
We Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the Housing Simons Foundation and the ethics and excellence in journalism. Foundation review is a co production at the center.
Investigative reporting and r ex I'm Alison and remember. There is always more.
These are last few shows of the year, and let me tell you in twenty twenty we are bringing the fire launching some of our most ambitious projects we ve ever done. I can wait for you to hear them reveal is all about going deep, pulling on threads
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Transcript generated on 2019-12-20.