We're back in Atlanta - this week with jaunts to Jamaica, Kenya, court-side NBA games, and a deep dive into fine art forgery. Plus, Malcolm finally gets his big break in the advertising industry. LISTENER NOTE: No editors were involved with the writing of this episode of Revisionist History. Proceed at your own risk. Happy Holidays, everyone!
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pushed it welcomed. The bonus
A special Atlanta seemed edition of revision. Is history part to a word before we begin
there is no overarching seem to what follows: no
getting no middle, no end, no single compelling through line my editor, Julia,
who is normally lovely, actually got all grumpy about doing this episode. So grumpy, in fact that I thought
should let her put in her two cents before we get going,
I thought about it. Some more.
Happy Holidays, Malcolm from here on
you're on your own
all right, all right, all right, here's my feeling. If theories
anything in the world that unites my fellow revisionist historians. It is our endless appetite for wandering down empty corridors,
and poking through the cobwebs of the half baked and marginal. But like do you haven't invented it later? Nor do I I ve been cooped up in my house for nine months, removing my mind dreaming of good land, sir.
just go to answer a few more random questions from you. My listeners, Lucas Nicholson asks on Twitter. What's your favorite memory of your father,
As you know, my dad comes up on the show. Every now and again I like to refer to him as the patron saint of revisions history, because, among other things, Graham Blubber was a deeply
Jesus man in a way that we strive every day to emulate here, Pushkin, oh, I should point out: why do we call Pushkin Pushkin now,
because we have some pretentious intellectual connection to the famous russian poet well kind of half of the other
missus. Graham global named our families. First are growing up, Pushkin Floppy Heerd Shepherd LAB mix and have always
of the name, my dad also named his garden rota, tiller Alexander after Alexander the great and his garden card, Rufus,
after the english King king, William, the second otherwise known as William Rufus. He really like to name things. My dad was English in the nineteen fifties. He meets my mother. They get married in a few years later. They move back to Jamaica, where my mother's from and my father teaches mathematics at the University of the West Indies Huey as it's called in Kingston Jimmy
parent therapy while he's there who does he meat and try to encourage to take mathematics, Donald Hairs, father of future, vice president calmly Harris?
world anyone someone
That is working on some crazily complex, Biddeth Math, and this is before the internet. Of course, if you needed
to read some crucial bit of scholarship had to go to
actual library, and he realizes closest library
has the books he needs. Is it George a tap lead, so he writes the chair of the Math Department.
Georgia tat, can I come in use your library stay on campus, Rob
Well, I do my research. They say course is two planets trim boat from Kingston to Miami, thus from Miami to Georgia. This is nineteen fifth
Nine George Attack is still a segregated institution, and the aid
illustration realises that the head of the Math Department has just extended an invitation to a profession.
from the University of the West Indies, a place chock full of black panic sweeps,
to judge attack. They start calling around other math departments. Does anyone know a Graham Gladwin? No one does because my daddy
twenty five years old, his nobody? Finally, just before my dad is about
to make they manage to reach him by phone. Professor Gladwell, I have an important question for you: are you white? My father says why
Yes, I have and the Georgia TAT Guy says: oh thank God. No, I didn't say anything.
time, because that's the way he was a poker fits, but when he finally gets to Atlanta a bunch of people,
the university take him out to dinner and he announced to the group gentlemen. I've just got married. I want
to see a picture of a lovely bride and passes a photo of choice, global system around him. I think you can see why he's the patron saint of revision
history. It's funny. I hadn't thought about that story for a long time
but Lucas Nicholson's question. Inspired me to do a follow up. So a few weeks ago I called up the dean of computer science at Georgia, tech and artificial intelligence researcher named Charles Isbell. I'm going to warn you. This is a tangent. What is Hyman Roth said to Michael Corleone tangents.
other business we ve chosen. Yeah, tell me all about your owner. Are you? Are you from Atlanta? Yes? Well,
as you can tell by my accent, I'm from Chattanooga Tennessee, but my early
memory is arriving in Atlanta moving shock at the age of three, so I think of myself as being from India
you gotta, do your undergrad adjudge attack a democratic order taken. I did my masters and Phd at MIT Icy, so we put you are
You consider yourself unit linen yes through improved through
Spell then told me the following story
started. The first on my masses of science, a computer science from a largely university. Give you
the scale of that we had zero students and as of this pass semester, we have about eleven thousand
So we went from zero to eleven thousand and in less than six years for around sixty
thousand dollars. You can
I'll get a masters of computer science from Georgia, tech online, as opposed to the forty six thousand dollars. It will cost you on campus same professors same course, materials. So
academic standards, so once you accept this larger idea, you start asking yourself: ok! Well, if we want to educate everyone, if we want to truly be accessible on, live up to this idea than where can we go? Who can we talk too? So I took a trip,
for someone unrelated reasons to Kenya and
visited tenure. Another visit Nigeria and in view of other countries in Sub Saharan Africa and started meeting with people there and I came to
conclusion that this is a population
where you have a law
the amount of untapped talent, people who are real,
interested in figuring out how to get free.
Well education and in computing and in computer science is bill and his
legs began travelling to Africa all the time. Their goal is to make George attack the world's number one edge,
Peter of eighty talent in Sub Saharan Africa,
Make a difference if you're, an african American, when you, when you're making this case for George Attack in Africa, I think those certainly
The conversations I've had made me think that it does. I think
that there's someone over here who wants that to have those conversations, then I told his bell
about my dad. You like there's something
Personally, I have been so happy to hear about what's happening now, George Attack, but does this wonderful?
only about how, in the space of sixty years,
petition is gone from turning its back on people, even if they suspect them are being black to like opening up its doors to subsidy.
In Africa, I think that's I don't know.
I was moved
I am glad to say that it's actually a remarkable thing in particular when you put it like that today, Judge Attack is one of them
largest producers of black engineers, hispanic engineers and age,
engineers in the country it has more black undergrad who go on to Dupe,
each these in computer science than
any other american University
of these. I talk to people all the time and unite. They asked me
I love story in the things that have gone through positive and negative in and have this conversation with some of the other day and you
was telling about interactions have had with the police in my younger days that didn't
Very well and and things people had said
me over the years and- and I started talking about but
hoping was gonna happen for the future and and
said to me releasing very optimistic and hopeful- and I thought about it
I thought you know it's true. In the end, I am optimistic and hopeful. I do like idea that
within a generation and it certainly a place like Lana. The reasoning.
Of the city,
and I saw
on your website that you do
You still do it
opera views at this I mean this- is
most Lana thing? I've ever heard my life, the a I professor, George Attack, does hip hop stuff on the site. Yes, I have been a bit a huge volume of jobs. At the very beginning,
certainly the motto about errors, is very beginning. We I did. I am an online hip, hop award shell for about eight years
for a while. There are the four
online black history database at nice
on your lap page. Everyone gets a people,
Thank you. Everyone gets a piece of paper being, of course, the nickname of parliament fidelity the law
in dairy fund Ben started by George Clinton
one is bells laboratory website. It reads the p in.
the funk stands for probabilistic. As for the funk, it stands
for many things as well? It should specific
two are left as an exercise for the reader. Your atomic dog. You would have to
Of course, I'm atomic got little, there's no other assets
What do I love it when
Roger nation. Twenty four asks on Twitter.
Have you never made an episode about Congo West his career trajectory seems like the perfect fit fear podcast
very, very good question regulation, twenty four: let's put it this way, it's not for lack of trying.
because no one likes a celebrity. Hang more than me. I once but David Hassle, half in Sweden, of all places, gotta selfie with him, and if you look at the photo, I have this big stupid.
Guinan. My face like on the happiest I've ever been in my life for the Hoff, but if the better story
which also and you're not gonna, believe this involves my
Every city at land
set up a couple years ago when Kevin Durant was still with the golden state warriors. They came to Atlanta to put the hawks and after the game, Quavo of the great hip hop group. Migos comes up to Duran and Duran, who is like seven feet, tall leans down and takes off his jersey and gives it to quavo,
one of the greatest basketball players in the world comes to town and pays homage to the king of Atlantic Hip Hop Perfectos viral.
it's a sensation. In fact, you should look it up for yourself image: Google, Kwairyo and Kevin Durrant, epic pop culture defining moment right.
who are you read it looked to the right
you'll see a bunch of people standing in the background you might have to zoom in a bit. There's a skinny guy wearing a page jacket, glasses, big head of curly hair.
who does tat? Look like oh yeah baby?
we'll be right back after were from our sponsor.
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with more of your excellent questions.
Once from Zoe Radice at the conclusion of each
business history episode, Mr Global says
general scoring by the next two could be
Louis Scevra Louis
Sierra Lou with scarecrow or some
combo I haven't thought of yet. I would like to get in touch with his person, as I think their talents are need.
and as an aspiring score rudder myself. I hope the
make sure some info with me about how they came to be in this role. Thank you. So much sewing Zoe. I am
me to tell you his name is Luis Gara Gee, you ye.
Our aim is a musical genius, as should be apparent. If you listen to any episode of the Show- and I will let him-
Sir, the rest of your questions himself. Once I get our double take to hear Markham Gladwell and put
physical genius. What, by my name in the same sentence, is a little bit of a flat, so I mean that's with dad said
My name is Louis Guerra. You could also say Luis Gara, totally fine to ethnic identities. Go in here, so I
composed music for a living on pushing into my thirtieth year is like a fool.
I'm musicians, I started really young in my life. I grew up in a family where all of US kids there's four of us. We,
encouraged in required too plain and a musical instrument, and I sort of jumped around the most. So I
start out on drums, went to piano, played a low, guitar and then ended up plain base and for whatever reason stuck with the base. It wasn't really something that I wanted to do for a career,
here. They was more about. This is a great way to escape.
things going on in my life and so then, in a long story.
short. I moved to Austin Texas in the early nineties am
it is musician. Whatever creative person, you didn't need a lot of money to pay your rent in your bills, okay, so as a young person that was a great place actually like just jump
was seen in. I also was a short order line cook in those two things sort of
merged at later on in my life, because I started realizing that as people would come up and ask for their food to be made, they would also sometimes come and asked for me to make a piece of music and you,
either one eyed, this would do it
podcasting? I wasn't like that
I think a whole lot of it honestly, and it was just something that, like I would, you know occasionally listen to a podcast when I go run or something. But when this came up, I knew that this is going to be a very a serious project, and so I was like heck yeah that sounds awesome. The podcast would its things overlooked and misunderstood and I think there's room to explore musical
and so I'm I'm feeling like there's that sort of the top level down. I want to take stereotypical
ideas, sort of that where there are predictable and start inverting them in, like not
ray mixing them, you know, but
She like really plane with that. Maybe there's three things that come to my entire approach: it one I wanted to
Is it to be transparent? I dont want to stand out so that it
Stu shadowing right in like overtaking, unlike wow. That's really great piece of music. That's a really great sound, but then you forget, whatever the topic was the other one is wanted to support.
involving the interesting so that, if you actually do find yourself thinking about the means,
Well, what is it what's? The sound what's goin on and in the other is like. I want to be flexible
I do you imagine this music could be performed life got.
About revisions history at this team of Producers- is like a band. We ve been in this ban for five years. He now and sometimes the ban gets bigger and more producers step then, and there like we're all supporting Malcolm who's, the brunt man. So how do
I shaped the music to sound to match Malcolm's voice on revisionist history.
Well, it's a little trick
composing for media, but every speaker has some
tonality to their voice. So if I can find
then I can actually make things sound more harmonious, but if I wanted to create tension than I can actually like creative right in a key to
be sort of juxtapose Artic to clash specifically with the voiceover Malcolm's voice there.
centres that I do if you
provisions, history, music. There
tunnel centres that I pick frequently that really I feel I support his voice.
So there is a mysterious element to this right. I want to pull from
crochet that I'm reference
but I also wanted to be done in a revisionist history, sort of way toys
this situation, there's marimba right, but a marimba to me, with a certain amount of delay in reverb, is going to put the listener.
into this zone
and if they don't not, they're gonna meet feel like what's going on here,
you know, and so that its a device, if you will- and I think that's what composers do every day
the new adventure at studio. I can mean it's up to its a
I think of worse things to be different.
Thank you Louis for five years and making me sound fantastic
a back to listener mailbag, and I have to warn you. You know how like a fleeting
men can inspire a whole novel that takes years
to complete this? One is kind of like that. Jonathan Wall fits asks on twitter.
What do you do when you feel, like you reached a dead end in a story? Very very good question. Jonathan is actually happened to us
Last season, when we were in the middle of doing the episode about the tangled provenance of Van Gogh's Vas with carnations here's a little piece of that story in nineteen thirty.
six Kirk Douglas started a movie about Dango called lost her life.
Few people know the real story of this intense wrong willed man. Now
the motor was career is revealed for the first time with frankness, and it was with all that lesson from it
at the corner of the movie poster for less for life there it is fast carnations, but by then get
sold it. He didn't hang onto his Van Gogh the way he did his other treasures, it wasn't for him, the pay,
in past the heirs to the Kmart fortune, Catherine Cresty, who, among other things
was once married to a swedish baron
He convinced him to leave London and calmly,
with her in her native Detroit, perhaps
his parents order for Miss Gretzky did not survive
the move to Michigan when
crazy died and ninety ninety she will fall of carnations to the Detroit. Instead of arts, she gave it without restriction
meaning the dossier as its known could do with,
what they wanted, salad traded. He didn't have to make it part of their permanent collection
Does geek really didn't care anymore for the painting than get stood and neither did the dia they put it in a basement for twenty years.
Vincent Van Gogh painted many remarkable canvasses. This is not one of them.
While we were reporting this episode, we had to solve a problem which was waiting
no whether the Van Gogh was a fake. So I said,
my producer Elvis led. Can we find out thinking foolishly, it would be easy
Ellie starts with a curator at the Detroit instead of arts named George, who went on
I could years ago to say that he thought Basel Carnations was a fake
call his home in Man
the message I call again, his wife picks up
I tell her what I'm asking about and she says they're going on a trip and if I call back, they won't be there
This was the beginning of the pandemic April
EL, the and I had started having these zoom calls where we shared our frustrations, hats
we have that number one
he's retired is learning a name, isn't even talk about updating, daddy.
neither light, no. That was real next loans neck. What happened next
then always tries a prominent art. Journalist could written extensively about penguins
ass soon, ass. She mentions Basel carnations. The guy disappears, then
just starts calling a big name, dango experts, one after another, the same thing.
I told him I was thinking about this.
carnations and used up the buying.
And then I followed up two weeks later, because someone had recommended, I talked to him and
he said that he would speak to me this morning and
Then, when I colleges,
office. They said he was there and then
email to him and he never respond at understand this.
not the Mona LISA we're talking about vote,
with carnations is a third rate. Maybe then go it spent much of its life over the past few decades in the basement of the Detroit instead of arts, and also understand
that were doing this reporting, while the entire world is at home. You know how
easy. It is to get people to talk during lockdown. It's been the most fantastic stretch of reporting,
in my thirty five years in journalism, I could get the Pope on the phone. If I wanted,
because he's sitting in his palazzo like everyone else,
doing nothing, but watching italian networks? Everyone was available except art, people.
talk to the law on the other side of the controversy,
and he says in society has to be on background and then
Since it is long email, you should tell
We obviously have got enough Wikipedia and says you
the news apollonian background is this random painting, which isn't any good witch,
without mistake for years and years and years, and all
what does want to talk about it. Not even
a little known ass.
yeah. Who knows what I mean I can understand why, unless must we're just be partner? We think that
just alone and
quarantined and becoming paranoid our sun. Finally,
always finds of NGO expert named David Brooks, who spell it out for us
Everybody kind of walks on eggshells when it comes to the the fakes topic in and rightfully so, I'm I dont release say much about it
and the Van Gogh Museum is always very careful. For example,
I'll even say to my friend my contacted the Van Museum such and such work. I mean people have questioned it. What do you think?
and my friend I say we have no opinion. We, we simply cannot express an opinion unless there,
officially called on to do it.
Instigation and to properly study the work there
which will they just remain neutral.
and that's a smart move it.
makes life easier for them
why why is it such a visa,
You called it a firecracker topic, it is it's a firecracker topic and
again, one that I have avoided over the years, because I just dont need the grief. The our world is a collection of people.
With a great deal of knowledge about art who, on the question of fakes, whither knowledge
might be useful
declined to use their knowledge.
didn't want to be the one who reins on someone's parade by telling them that their
eyes, then go was actually painted by like some dude in Cleveland in the nineteen seventies. This is like doctors,
We happy to tell you that your healthy, but would rather not break the news to you that you're sick.
So finally, Louise tracks down a data scientist at a university in HOLLAND named Eric Postman
I was working on in the old days of computer vision before the time of deep learning. There was this
challenge to recognise visual texture,
And I was I had visited the Franco regime that was lacking was impressionist, paintings exceeded
and then I had idea to create a dataset from paintings because they all have these different visual textures. Basically, postmark trains is a program to match the pattern.
Of authenticated then goes against unverified Van
so elegies sends him an image of us
carnations and a few weeks later, he calls with the results
very concrete? I take blocks of two and fifty six by two fifty six pixels, and I look
each block, India and the image and abandoned and try to classified it s real from go on olive ago.
And what I see in many paintings yet I know are from goes. I always see. Ok, it's about. Seventy to eighty percent of the surface is past fighters from go, but in this particular case it's fifty fifty his really fifty fifty
I replicated that several times I changed the dataset. Normally. I would like to have
multiple copies of rapid elections but
This suggests to me that is not clear from go and its Uppsala clearly unknown from your awaits it something in between which is not very helpful. Of course,
it's the first time that I have such a vehicle where it, where it's rebalanced? It's really fifty slash. Fifty I mean how perfect is that fifty slash fifty then post but comes back to us and says
Actually, upon re analysis, I think the flowers are real, but maybe the background is not we
spared you all this in the original episode, because we
and a better story to tell, but it
you know how I came to the conclusion that I did, which is the art world, is not the only proof
who would actually discussed the authenticity of OZ wasn't so
when, in the art world,
The data scientist, for goodness sake,
cider uses a to analyze, pixels and poor. Eric postman is left.
Bending his days dealing with crazy our world types clutching
would be masterpieces there or
and people that wants to put their painting in my computer literally. What do you mean that fizzled out
colonies. I my painting, can I put it in your computer, said yes,
What do you mean
can bring it to you, you is there an opening, a new computer that I can put it in three people were french people pretty sure,
will be my last episode on the world.
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with more of your insightful listener questions
in clansmen Kundera asks loved
You're more about your running obsession smiley face: what's U routine got some good, chew recommendations.
Ok, I'll just choose track Smith. Gear
my favorite thing in the world is group track work out, but sadly, since covered my only
partner has been a thirteen year old son of my friends who is super speedy and completely play
make pretends he's all exhausted and then destroys me. The final interval speaking a track
You may have heard some of their ads and revisions history. I'm huge fan of their stuff cleared all the time. In a few weeks ago, the founder of Track Psmith asked
Could he convinced me to write the copy for an ad they were making? I said sure, because if you know this, but my
mission coming of college was to be a copyright applied to twenty.
Add agencies got twenty eight projection. Letters which have put
the wall of my dorm room, so I'm a frustrated at guided down. That's my core identity, which is why I sometimes go
a little crazy on the do for emissions history. Dear
were Horace throbbed bottom of the law from Throb Bottom frog bottom and try bottom. That was a character I caught up with night producer, Jacob Psmith position.
really, and where do you work now
I just started on my partner at thrive, bottom enthroned, bottom
Was my man that's drink to your future changes
If your horse Cabot trod bottom, the first
easy to figure out who d ire
but if your last name isn't throb bottom, you need zip recruiter pudding.
the head of some little start up, who makes my favorite running stuff
comes to me and says: do you want to help out? Of course, I'm gonna say yes. So here is the video. This
a couple of runners, including the great Mary came running through darkened lonely streets.
You could always stay in bed
pull up the covers poor stiff drink ordering worry. You could always let someone else take on the world actress playing heroes, pounding soundtrack that thing where they take on great risks,
it's all made up, but then, who would you be?
or you could say that the world I have all I need. I have movement breath bans daydreams
I have running
running as a gift.
It's so emotional psych the emu
Malcolm Gladwell, as anyone still listening.
At harsher shroud asks higher percentage
mild time earlier age group or your l set score. There are actually a bunch of questions like that
add production, labs rights, hello.
from Germany. What did you say
or on the EL set in the puzzle. Rush episode. I get this question over time now, back
season. For my then assistant, Camille, Baptista and I took the else said not to become lawyers, know just to see whether a young brainy whipper snapper, like Camille, was a match for a savage grizzled veteran like me, and at the end of two episode are
with so much ridiculous. Build up. I refuse to reveal what our scores were, which apparently left many in the revisionist history universe up in arms, but wait. The whole point
The episode was standardized tests like the EL set, don't tell us,
anything meaningful. If
Tell someone your score: your complicit
the scam, don't ask detail, but we did get one very charming email on the subject from Joan Riddle, Stoneman, who teaches choir at paradigm high school
in SALT Lake City, Simon, wrote a whole song inspired by our l, set episodes. I'm not kidding
It's called a scan. China day keep.
All learning at bay
She was coming to New York with her choir and could they perform it, for us is what Europe we twenty four singers.
four parent, chaperones myself and our school principle would
to sing to him and me we can
meet him outside a coffee shop or anywhere
and sing a song I Capella, sadly, because
covered. The meeting never happened so
play the Son B C do say say they say
Captains and stuff
can trot today is part of diamonds musical solved for ex, but you can check out had solved for Ex musical Dhaka
you wanna, get I'm a good sign. Read me songs, Jones Diamond. You are a genius proof.
That sometimes good things happen outside of a ten.
That's all, ladies and gentlemen, stay safe
have a wonderful holiday and see.
Four seasons: six
of revisions. History in twenty twenty one
History is produced by mere Labelle and leaning, astute with Jacob Psmith, elevates Lytton Copy Guilford and on an eye,
Our editor is Julia Barton, original
scoring by the great we scare. You are
a mastering by flown Williams. Special thanks to
Pushkin crew had a thing
colleagues, we, my caning
Taylor Eric Sandra Jason, can brow,
team Gonzales and, of course, how happy Jacob Whisper
put your pencils down. Now
to sing little feet, but I've forgotten- and I realise that what I thought with the lyrics little feet were not
excellent. I thought was owed land. I hear you calling it's not.
you know the sun choice,
Do you guys know the sun? What what's
what's the matter. Are you serious
You know it caught gallop
I said oh Atlanta,
At last I come back to this later
I said Lana
Atlanta. I got to get back to.
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Transcript generated on 2020-12-17.