« Revisionist History

Bonus: Return to the 404


We're back in Atlanta - this week with jaunts to Jamaica, Kenya, court-side NBA games, and a deep dive into fine art forgery. Plus, Malcolm finally gets his big break in the advertising industry. LISTENER NOTE: No editors were involved with the writing of this episode of Revisionist History. Proceed at your own risk. Happy Holidays, everyone! 

Text Malcolm: 917-423-6439. Get Revisionist History updates first by signing up for our newsletter at pushkin.fm.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pushed it welcomed. The bonus A special Atlanta seemed edition of revision. Is history part to a word before we begin there is no overarching seem to what follows: no getting no middle, no end, no single compelling through line my editor, Julia, who is normally lovely, actually got all grumpy about doing this episode. So grumpy, in fact that I thought should let her put in her two cents before we get going, I thought about it. Some more. Happy Holidays, Malcolm from here on you're on your own all right, all right, all right, here's my feeling. If theories
anything in the world that unites my fellow revisionist historians. It is our endless appetite for wandering down empty corridors, and poking through the cobwebs of the half baked and marginal. But like do you haven't invented it later? Nor do I I ve been cooped up in my house for nine months, removing my mind dreaming of good land, sir.
just go to answer a few more random questions from you. My listeners, Lucas Nicholson asks on Twitter. What's your favorite memory of your father, As you know, my dad comes up on the show. Every now and again I like to refer to him as the patron saint of revisions history, because, among other things, Graham Blubber was a deeply Jesus man in a way that we strive every day to emulate here, Pushkin, oh, I should point out: why do we call Pushkin Pushkin now, because we have some pretentious intellectual connection to the famous russian poet well kind of half of the other missus. Graham global named our families. First are growing up, Pushkin Floppy Heerd Shepherd LAB mix and have always of the name, my dad also named his garden rota, tiller Alexander after Alexander the great and his garden card, Rufus,
after the english King king, William, the second otherwise known as William Rufus. He really like to name things. My dad was English in the nineteen fifties. He meets my mother. They get married in a few years later. They move back to Jamaica, where my mother's from and my father teaches mathematics at the University of the West Indies Huey as it's called in Kingston Jimmy parent therapy while he's there who does he meat and try to encourage to take mathematics, Donald Hairs, father of future, vice president calmly Harris? world anyone someone That is working on some crazily complex, Biddeth Math, and this is before the internet. Of course, if you needed to read some crucial bit of scholarship had to go to actual library, and he realizes closest library has the books he needs. Is it George a tap lead, so he writes the chair of the Math Department.
Georgia tat, can I come in use your library stay on campus, Rob Well, I do my research. They say course is two planets trim boat from Kingston to Miami, thus from Miami to Georgia. This is nineteen fifth Nine George Attack is still a segregated institution, and the aid illustration realises that the head of the Math Department has just extended an invitation to a profession. from the University of the West Indies, a place chock full of black panic sweeps, to judge attack. They start calling around other math departments. Does anyone know a Graham Gladwin? No one does because my daddy twenty five years old, his nobody? Finally, just before my dad is about to make they manage to reach him by phone. Professor Gladwell, I have an important question for you: are you white? My father says why
Yes, I have and the Georgia TAT Guy says: oh thank God. No, I didn't say anything. time, because that's the way he was a poker fits, but when he finally gets to Atlanta a bunch of people, the university take him out to dinner and he announced to the group gentlemen. I've just got married. I want to see a picture of a lovely bride and passes a photo of choice, global system around him. I think you can see why he's the patron saint of revision history. It's funny. I hadn't thought about that story for a long time
but Lucas Nicholson's question. Inspired me to do a follow up. So a few weeks ago I called up the dean of computer science at Georgia, tech and artificial intelligence researcher named Charles Isbell. I'm going to warn you. This is a tangent. What is Hyman Roth said to Michael Corleone tangents. other business we ve chosen. Yeah, tell me all about your owner. Are you? Are you from Atlanta? Yes? Well, as you can tell by my accent, I'm from Chattanooga Tennessee, but my early memory is arriving in Atlanta moving shock at the age of three, so I think of myself as being from India you gotta, do your undergrad adjudge attack a democratic order taken. I did my masters and Phd at MIT Icy, so we put you are You consider yourself unit linen yes through improved through Spell then told me the following story started. The first on my masses of science, a computer science from a largely university. Give you
the scale of that we had zero students and as of this pass semester, we have about eleven thousand So we went from zero to eleven thousand and in less than six years for around sixty thousand dollars. You can I'll get a masters of computer science from Georgia, tech online, as opposed to the forty six thousand dollars. It will cost you on campus same professors same course, materials. So academic standards, so once you accept this larger idea, you start asking yourself: ok! Well, if we want to educate everyone, if we want to truly be accessible on, live up to this idea than where can we go? Who can we talk too? So I took a trip, for someone unrelated reasons to Kenya and visited tenure. Another visit Nigeria and in view of other countries in Sub Saharan Africa and started meeting with people there and I came to conclusion that this is a population where you have a law the amount of untapped talent, people who are real, interested in figuring out how to get free.
Well education and in computing and in computer science is bill and his legs began travelling to Africa all the time. Their goal is to make George attack the world's number one edge, Peter of eighty talent in Sub Saharan Africa, Make a difference if you're, an african American, when you, when you're making this case for George Attack in Africa, I think those certainly The conversations I've had made me think that it does. I think more excited that there's someone over here who wants that to have those conversations, then I told his bell about my dad. You like there's something Personally, I have been so happy to hear about what's happening now, George Attack, but does this wonderful? only about how, in the space of sixty years, petition is gone from turning its back on people, even if they suspect them are being black to like opening up its doors to subsidy. In Africa, I think that's I don't know.
I was moved I am glad to say that it's actually a remarkable thing in particular when you put it like that today, Judge Attack is one of them largest producers of black engineers, hispanic engineers and age, engineers in the country it has more black undergrad who go on to Dupe, each these in computer science than any other american University of these. I talk to people all the time and unite. They asked me I love story in the things that have gone through positive and negative in and have this conversation with some of the other day and you was telling about interactions have had with the police in my younger days that didn't Very well and and things people had said me over the years and- and I started talking about but hoping was gonna happen for the future and and said to me releasing very optimistic and hopeful- and I thought about it I thought you know it's true. In the end, I am optimistic and hopeful. I do like idea that within a generation and it certainly a place like Lana. The reasoning. Of the city,
and I saw on your website that you do You still do it opera views at this I mean this- is most Lana thing? I've ever heard my life, the a I professor, George Attack, does hip hop stuff on the site. Yes, I have been a bit a huge volume of jobs. At the very beginning, certainly the motto about errors, is very beginning. We I did. I am an online hip, hop award shell for about eight years for a while. There are the four online black history database at nice on your lap page. Everyone gets a people, Thank you. Everyone gets a piece of paper being, of course, the nickname of parliament fidelity the law in dairy fund Ben started by George Clinton one is bells laboratory website. It reads the p in. the funk stands for probabilistic. As for the funk, it stands for many things as well? It should specific
two are left as an exercise for the reader. Your atomic dog. You would have to Of course, I'm atomic got little, there's no other assets What do I love it when Roger nation. Twenty four asks on Twitter. Have you never made an episode about Congo West his career trajectory seems like the perfect fit fear podcast very, very good question regulation, twenty four: let's put it this way, it's not for lack of trying. because no one likes a celebrity. Hang more than me. I once but David Hassle, half in Sweden, of all places, gotta selfie with him, and if you look at the photo, I have this big stupid. Guinan. My face like on the happiest I've ever been in my life for the Hoff, but if the better story which also and you're not gonna, believe this involves my Every city at land
set up a couple years ago when Kevin Durant was still with the golden state warriors. They came to Atlanta to put the hawks and after the game, Quavo of the great hip hop group. Migos comes up to Duran and Duran, who is like seven feet, tall leans down and takes off his jersey and gives it to quavo, one of the greatest basketball players in the world comes to town and pays homage to the king of Atlantic Hip Hop Perfectos viral. it's a sensation. In fact, you should look it up for yourself image: Google, Kwairyo and Kevin Durrant, epic pop culture defining moment right. who are you read it looked to the right you'll see a bunch of people standing in the background you might have to zoom in a bit. There's a skinny guy wearing a page jacket, glasses, big head of curly hair.
who does tat? Look like oh yeah baby? we'll be right back after were from our sponsor. this episode is made remarkable by makers mark. You know the red wax tipped bottle, but there's more beneath the surface of naked smarter than you may realise, bourbon born of personal touches makers, marks to go beyond the obvious to create. Think surely remarks We invite you to pull yourself. Do everything you do each yourself to some makers marked and raise a glass to the incredible musicians who continue to create something new market. Remember makers mark crafts, their bourbon carefully, and they ask that you enjoy TAT way too.
support for this pod cast comes from the first one, Dj Coward and new pie, cast only available on Amazon music with Serbia. This dj cabot- and this is the first one we're from all the Alias movie stars like J bowed and Nazi We will about saw that didn't change the game, but changed and life. It's almost like, sometimes you even get an industries like you set up to fail So many moments where you can win and the winning is great, but is so many things that you go through to get to the wind is so much more each other stories about the forces that took on to them ex level changed alive overlooked to being overbooked, one was recording the song I'll renewal, there's gonna be a global here and I'm not joking Margie. I really felt that inside May, I like can't wait to see a number one for me every Thursday, with the first one draft only
Amazon, music, less skull. We're with more of your excellent questions. Once from Zoe Radice at the conclusion of each business history episode, Mr Global says general scoring by the next two could be Louis Scevra Louis Sierra Lou with scarecrow or some combo I haven't thought of yet. I would like to get in touch with his person, as I think their talents are need. and as an aspiring score rudder myself. I hope the make sure some info with me about how they came to be in this role. Thank you. So much sewing Zoe. I am me to tell you his name is Luis Gara Gee, you ye. Our aim is a musical genius, as should be apparent. If you listen to any episode of the Show- and I will let him-
Sir, the rest of your questions himself. Once I get our double take to hear Markham Gladwell and put physical genius. What, by my name in the same sentence, is a little bit of a flat, so I mean that's with dad said My name is Louis Guerra. You could also say Luis Gara, totally fine to ethnic identities. Go in here, so I composed music for a living on pushing into my thirtieth year is like a fool. I'm musicians, I started really young in my life. I grew up in a family where all of US kids there's four of us. We, encouraged in required too plain and a musical instrument, and I sort of jumped around the most. So I start out on drums, went to piano, played a low, guitar and then ended up plain base and for whatever reason stuck with the base. It wasn't really something that I wanted to do for a career, here. They was more about. This is a great way to escape.
things going on in my life and so then, in a long story. short. I moved to Austin Texas in the early nineties am it is musician. Whatever creative person, you didn't need a lot of money to pay your rent in your bills, okay, so as a young person that was a great place actually like just jump was seen in. I also was a short order line cook in those two things sort of merged at later on in my life, because I started realizing that as people would come up and ask for their food to be made, they would also sometimes come and asked for me to make a piece of music and you, either one eyed, this would do it yeah podcasting? I wasn't like that
I think a whole lot of it honestly, and it was just something that, like I would, you know occasionally listen to a podcast when I go run or something. But when this came up, I knew that this is going to be a very a serious project, and so I was like heck yeah that sounds awesome. The podcast would its things overlooked and misunderstood and I think there's room to explore musical and so I'm I'm feeling like there's that sort of the top level down. I want to take stereotypical ideas, sort of that where there are predictable and start inverting them in, like not ray mixing them, you know, but She like really plane with that. Maybe there's three things that come to my entire approach: it one I wanted to Is it to be transparent? I dont want to stand out so that it Stu shadowing right in like overtaking, unlike wow. That's really great piece of music. That's a really great sound, but then you forget, whatever the topic was the other one is wanted to support.
involving the interesting so that, if you actually do find yourself thinking about the means, Well, what is it what's? The sound what's goin on and in the other is like. I want to be flexible I do you imagine this music could be performed life got. About revisions history at this team of Producers- is like a band. We ve been in this ban for five years. He now and sometimes the ban gets bigger and more producers step then, and there like we're all supporting Malcolm who's, the brunt man. So how do I shaped the music to sound to match Malcolm's voice on revisionist history. Well, it's a little trick composing for media, but every speaker has some tonality to their voice. So if I can find then I can actually make things sound more harmonious, but if I wanted to create tension than I can actually like creative right in a key to
be sort of juxtapose Artic to clash specifically with the voiceover Malcolm's voice there. few tone centres that I do if you so too, provisions, history, music. There tunnel centres that I pick frequently that really I feel I support his voice. So there is a mysterious element to this right. I want to pull from crochet that I'm reference but I also wanted to be done in a revisionist history, sort of way toys this situation, there's marimba right, but a marimba to me, with a certain amount of delay in reverb, is going to put the listener. into this zone and if they don't not, they're gonna meet feel like what's going on here, you know, and so that its a device, if you will- and I think that's what composers do every day the new adventure at studio. I can mean it's up to its a I think of worse things to be different.
Thank you Louis for five years and making me sound fantastic a back to listener mailbag, and I have to warn you. You know how like a fleeting men can inspire a whole novel that takes years to complete this? One is kind of like that. Jonathan Wall fits asks on twitter. What do you do when you feel, like you reached a dead end in a story? Very very good question. Jonathan is actually happened to us Last season, when we were in the middle of doing the episode about the tangled provenance of Van Gogh's Vas with carnations here's a little piece of that story in nineteen thirty. six Kirk Douglas started a movie about Dango called lost her life. Few people know the real story of this intense wrong willed man. Now
the motor was career is revealed for the first time with frankness, and it was with all that lesson from it at the corner of the movie poster for less for life there it is fast carnations, but by then get sold it. He didn't hang onto his Van Gogh the way he did his other treasures, it wasn't for him, the pay, in past the heirs to the Kmart fortune, Catherine Cresty, who, among other things was once married to a swedish baron He convinced him to leave London and calmly, with her in her native Detroit, perhaps Unsurprisingly, this his parents order for Miss Gretzky did not survive the move to Michigan when crazy died and ninety ninety she will fall of carnations to the Detroit. Instead of arts, she gave it without restriction meaning the dossier as its known could do with, what they wanted, salad traded. He didn't have to make it part of their permanent collection
Does geek really didn't care anymore for the painting than get stood and neither did the dia they put it in a basement for twenty years. Vincent Van Gogh painted many remarkable canvasses. This is not one of them. While we were reporting this episode, we had to solve a problem which was waiting no whether the Van Gogh was a fake. So I said, my producer Elvis led. Can we find out thinking foolishly, it would be easy Ellie starts with a curator at the Detroit instead of arts named George, who went on I could years ago to say that he thought Basel Carnations was a fake call his home in Man doesn't answer the message I call again, his wife picks up I tell her what I'm asking about and she says they're going on a trip and if I call back, they won't be there
This was the beginning of the pandemic April EL, the and I had started having these zoom calls where we shared our frustrations, hats one. Little we have that number one he's retired is learning a name, isn't even talk about updating, daddy. neither light, no. That was real next loans neck. What happened next then always tries a prominent art. Journalist could written extensively about penguins ass soon, ass. She mentions Basel carnations. The guy disappears, then just starts calling a big name, dango experts, one after another, the same thing. I told him I was thinking about this. carnations and used up the buying. And then I followed up two weeks later, because someone had recommended, I talked to him and he said that he would speak to me this morning and Then, when I colleges, office. They said he was there and then
email to him and he never respond at understand this. not the Mona LISA we're talking about vote, with carnations is a third rate. Maybe then go it spent much of its life over the past few decades in the basement of the Detroit instead of arts, and also understand that were doing this reporting, while the entire world is at home. You know how easy. It is to get people to talk during lockdown. It's been the most fantastic stretch of reporting, in my thirty five years in journalism, I could get the Pope on the phone. If I wanted, because he's sitting in his palazzo like everyone else, doing nothing, but watching italian networks? Everyone was available except art, people. talk to the law on the other side of the controversy, and he says in society has to be on background and then Since it is long email, you should tell such as
We obviously have got enough Wikipedia and says you the news apollonian background is this random painting, which isn't any good witch, without mistake for years and years and years, and all what does want to talk about it. Not even a little known ass. yeah. Who knows what I mean I can understand why, unless must we're just be partner? We think that just alone and quarantined and becoming paranoid our sun. Finally, always finds of NGO expert named David Brooks, who spell it out for us Everybody kind of walks on eggshells when it comes to the the fakes topic in and rightfully so, I'm I dont release say much about it and the Van Gogh Museum is always very careful. For example, I'll even say to my friend my contacted the Van Museum such and such work. I mean people have questioned it. What do you think?
and my friend I say we have no opinion. We, we simply cannot express an opinion unless there, officially called on to do it. Instigation and to properly study the work there which will they just remain neutral. and that's a smart move it. makes life easier for them why why is it such a visa, You called it a firecracker topic, it is it's a firecracker topic and again, one that I have avoided over the years, because I just dont need the grief. The our world is a collection of people. With a great deal of knowledge about art who, on the question of fakes, whither knowledge might be useful declined to use their knowledge. didn't want to be the one who reins on someone's parade by telling them that their eyes, then go was actually painted by like some dude in Cleveland in the nineteen seventies. This is like doctors,
We happy to tell you that your healthy, but would rather not break the news to you that you're sick. So finally, Louise tracks down a data scientist at a university in HOLLAND named Eric Postman I was working on in the old days of computer vision before the time of deep learning. There was this challenge to recognise visual texture, And I was I had visited the Franco regime that was lacking was impressionist, paintings exceeded and then I had idea to create a dataset from paintings because they all have these different visual textures. Basically, postmark trains is a program to match the pattern. Of authenticated then goes against unverified Van so elegies sends him an image of us carnations and a few weeks later, he calls with the results very concrete? I take blocks of two and fifty six by two fifty six pixels, and I look
each block, India and the image and abandoned and try to classified it s real from go on olive ago. And what I see in many paintings yet I know are from goes. I always see. Ok, it's about. Seventy to eighty percent of the surface is past fighters from go, but in this particular case it's fifty fifty his really fifty fifty I replicated that several times I changed the dataset. Normally. I would like to have multiple copies of rapid elections but This suggests to me that is not clear from go and its Uppsala clearly unknown from your awaits it something in between which is not very helpful. Of course, it's the first time that I have such a vehicle where it, where it's rebalanced? It's really fifty slash. Fifty I mean how perfect is that fifty slash fifty then post but comes back to us and says
Actually, upon re analysis, I think the flowers are real, but maybe the background is not we spared you all this in the original episode, because we and a better story to tell, but it you know how I came to the conclusion that I did, which is the art world, is not the only proof who would actually discussed the authenticity of OZ wasn't so when, in the art world, The data scientist, for goodness sake, cider uses a to analyze, pixels and poor. Eric postman is left. Bending his days dealing with crazy our world types clutching would be masterpieces there or and people that wants to put their painting in my computer literally. What do you mean that fizzled out colonies. I my painting, can I put it in your computer, said yes, What do you mean can bring it to you, you is there an opening, a new computer that I can put it in three people were french people pretty sure,
will be my last episode on the world. support for this punk has comes from progressive. What would you do it? extra eight hundred dollars by a plane, ticket pay down. Yours loan treat yourself to those shoes you been with progressive. You can find out. drivers who switch and save save an average of seven hundred? Ninety six dollars on car insurance. Get your online at progressive dot com and see how much you can be saving national. Rich annual car insurance savings by new customer surveyed who saved with progressive in twenty nineteen support for this podcast comes from food woody investments introducing a new. And if return on investment fidelity rewards, plus a programme with exclusive benefits for eligible wealth management clients once enrolled, you can earn up to three percent: unlimited cash back on credit card purchases, access to three layers of advanced identity protection and me
we see the fullest, have benefits and learn about no cost enrollment at fidelity. Dot com, slash, rewards, fidelity, rewards plus offers eight years of membership with benefits increasing as eligible assets increase in order to receive three percent cash back card. Members must qualify for the highest here. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. You could lose money by investing in a money. Market fund, Fidelity brokered Services LLC, member n Y Essie as Ipc whereby with more of your insightful listener questions in clansmen Kundera asks loved You're more about your running obsession smiley face: what's U routine got some good, chew recommendations. Ok, I'll just choose track Smith. Gear my favorite thing in the world is group track work out, but sadly, since covered my only partner has been a thirteen year old son of my friends who is super speedy and completely play
make pretends he's all exhausted and then destroys me. The final interval speaking a track You may have heard some of their ads and revisions history. I'm huge fan of their stuff cleared all the time. In a few weeks ago, the founder of Track Psmith asked Could he convinced me to write the copy for an ad they were making? I said sure, because if you know this, but my mission coming of college was to be a copyright applied to twenty. Add agencies got twenty eight projection. Letters which have put the wall of my dorm room, so I'm a frustrated at guided down. That's my core identity, which is why I sometimes go a little crazy on the do for emissions history. Dear were Horace throbbed bottom of the law from Throb Bottom frog bottom and try bottom. That was a character I caught up with night producer, Jacob Psmith position. really, and where do you work now
I just started on my partner at thrive, bottom enthroned, bottom Was my man that's drink to your future changes If your horse Cabot trod bottom, the first easy to figure out who d ire but if your last name isn't throb bottom, you need zip recruiter pudding. the head of some little start up, who makes my favorite running stuff comes to me and says: do you want to help out? Of course, I'm gonna say yes. So here is the video. This a couple of runners, including the great Mary came running through darkened lonely streets. You could always stay in bed
pull up the covers poor stiff drink ordering worry. You could always let someone else take on the world actress playing heroes, pounding soundtrack that thing where they take on great risks, it's all made up, but then, who would you be? or you could say that the world I have all I need. I have movement breath bans daydreams I have running running as a gift. It's so emotional psych the emu
Malcolm Gladwell, as anyone still listening. At harsher shroud asks higher percentage mild time earlier age group or your l set score. There are actually a bunch of questions like that add production, labs rights, hello. from Germany. What did you say or on the EL set in the puzzle. Rush episode. I get this question over time now, back season. For my then assistant, Camille, Baptista and I took the else said not to become lawyers, know just to see whether a young brainy whipper snapper, like Camille, was a match for a savage grizzled veteran like me, and at the end of two episode are with so much ridiculous. Build up. I refuse to reveal what our scores were, which apparently left many in the revisionist history universe up in arms, but wait. The whole point
The episode was standardized tests like the EL set, don't tell us, anything meaningful. If Tell someone your score: your complicit the scam, don't ask detail, but we did get one very charming email on the subject from Joan Riddle, Stoneman, who teaches choir at paradigm high school in SALT Lake City, Simon, wrote a whole song inspired by our l, set episodes. I'm not kidding It's called a scan. China day keep. All learning at bay She was coming to New York with her choir and could they perform it, for us is what Europe we twenty four singers. four parent, chaperones myself and our school principle would to sing to him and me we can meet him outside a coffee shop or anywhere and sing a song I Capella, sadly, because covered. The meeting never happened so
play the Son B C do say say they say as much. me too. Captains and stuff can trot today is part of diamonds musical solved for ex, but you can check out had solved for Ex musical Dhaka you wanna, get I'm a good sign. Read me songs, Jones Diamond. You are a genius proof. That sometimes good things happen outside of a ten. That's all, ladies and gentlemen, stay safe have a wonderful holiday and see.
Four seasons: six of revisions. History in twenty twenty one History is produced by mere Labelle and leaning, astute with Jacob Psmith, elevates Lytton Copy Guilford and on an eye, Our editor is Julia Barton, original scoring by the great we scare. You are a mastering by flown Williams. Special thanks to Pushkin crew had a thing colleagues, we, my caning Taylor Eric Sandra Jason, can brow, team Gonzales and, of course, how happy Jacob Whisper
put your pencils down. Now to sing little feet, but I've forgotten- and I realise that what I thought with the lyrics little feet were not excellent. I thought was owed land. I hear you calling it's not. you know the sun choice, Do you guys know the sun? What what's what's the matter. Are you serious You know it caught gallop I said oh Atlanta, At last I come back to this later I said Lana
Atlanta. I got to get back to. This episode is supported by we keep the dead close. the haunting true crime book that Ranchero now cause a stunning achievement. The is one nineteen sixty nine, the height of the counterculture movement. the winter that Harvard University would begin the tumultuous process of merging, with its all female Sister School Radcliffe in the EU, that Jane Britain, an ambitious too through you old graduate student and Harvard Anthropology Department, would be found bludgeoned to death in Cambridge upon Forty years later, here Harvard Undergrad, Becky Cooper will hear the first whispers of Jane story. Not yet no one should spend the next ten years of her life, bringing Jaynes case in her compulsion to rewrite the stories of female victims to lie. The boss,
glow graves. We keep the dead. Close is a powerful searching book. On sale. Now, whoever books are sold.
Transcript generated on 2020-12-17.