The presenting sponsor of rice is the procurator Zapruder this modest way to hire. I Rachel Hollis and I've felt a multi million dollar media company with a high school diploma and the free information I found on the internet in the fifteen years that I've been building and scaling my company, I have become deeply passionate about helping other entrepreneurs to do the same so each week I'll be sharing tangible and tactical advice and inspiring interviews with the same intention. Bees are the tool

to change your life and your business. This is the rice. Podcast tend to not prepare for these things, because I always think it's more interesting when you go on, but I think there's something super interests, heroes, Guenaud thinking about, we can't you today in your someone that I have admired for so long and a mentor and a teacher they have had for so many years, even though you dont know right, and so I thought I was going go look at a note, but that I had Fran back in the day. And I didn't remember the day I had gotten to go- see you and rob down at Wanderlust an alarming oh, that was such a great. Day. Wow, that's a good day. I was such a good day and I haven't

dig in kind of sea where I at that point, in kind of what are notes rates have- and I dont believe in quince then says anymore. Instead of looking to the universe, to tell me something by the meant happened on May twenty six. Two thousand sixteen yogurt court, my guide, twenty two: it sounds like you're. All that I don't know. I just thought that that was so special. It takes me very much back to that. That was a very heightened. The moment in my life as well like that that was a month after Rio was diagnosed with terminal cancer. It was like I was about like next week, I was I was gonna, be leaving. My marriage can be with her. I can remember it's one of those when you're super alert and super awake moments.

The profound but also very much alive. So I'm glad you were there and yeah. That was a great man, you and in the midst of relief, single magic or had already come out. I feel like it it had already come out and it was about to go into paper back in a month from now. So long, tat, yeah. It was already in the world so for I would love to talk about that book. That book has been, Oh incredibly impact for If I had a dollar for every person, I've told you read that I will when an animal Rachel that I have a dollar for every person, you ve thought about it. I thought of these works. It's been digging through my notes that day and so much a good few like that conversation was, bout. What this idea inside of Crete!

Kennedy and Enchantment and following that, I'm calling inside yourself, so I would love to start there because they think So many of the listeners are creators and dreamers, unwanted, build different things and this kind of going back to the past, but I am still print very much present in my imagination. So let's do it. So the specific things that I have from that day is first off a conversation about fear fear of em. What it means to have this thing inside of yourself. So I have my audience. Predominantly women and I tend to it a lot as well who are mothers, who have kind of found themselves in a narrative, and maybe four first time ever stepping back and going well well. How did I get here and what is this?

and what do I want to build an oh, my gosh, I M a grown up and actually have the opportunity to build this thing and make it a lot Second, I y yeah and wish that comes to fear the fear of what other people think of disappointing other. So could you speak to your thoughts on that yeah for sure I'm? So the first thing that I would say is that one thing I can tell you for certain after years and years Here's a creative work and also living a life where I've made a lot of scary choices. Is that all of us who create anything in the world whether it's on the huge scale or whether it's on the small intimate scale? We always begin at the same exact point. So everybody begins at the moment. Of integration and which is a sacred moment and a wholly moment an exciting moment, and it, it's a moment when you feel as though your imagination has been captivated by an idea

you know I like to think and its purely speculation cause. I don't know how the universe works any better than anyone else does budgets. For the purposes of how I live, I like to think that ideas have consciousness and they have will and bay. They love to interactive humans because we have the antenna to hear them feel them, and then we also have the labour and the creativity bring them for us. So I think of creativity, as he is a really mysterious union between human beings, labour and the mistress of inspiration and the mistress inspiration. We will never quite know what that is what we all experience: the same weight right, the Harris COP in the back of your neck, you, you feel a little sick,

to your stomach a little, not just the little thrilled you, you can't sleep, you get shit, you know you just get this x, it's like falling in love. You get this excitement of the moment of inspiration and that's, I always think of as the moment of invitation win. An idea comes to you and says: do you want to work with me? Do you want to work with me and should we make something together? Neither mystery I knew the human and it You say now that conversation and very quickly and the idea- and that's fine like I've, said no lots of times. I'm two ideas, because I was doing something else. It wasn't the right time suits, saying no is completely reject, but it closes off. And by and then the idea will go to find somebody else and another keep going until it find somebody who will manifesto right. But if you say yes very, very next sensation that your experience is terror, and that is going to be true, whether it's the first time you ve ever such ass to integration

your writing your twentieth book or starting your fifteenth company or whatever or or marking on any relationship. Whatever this thing is that you're saying yes to the very next thing you can set your clock to it. It is a law of nature that next thing that you're going to use the earth, and the reason for that is that our creativity lives in a very recent part of our evolutionary brain and it's still something that were learning how to use its only about a hundred thousand years old, maybe a little bit. But your fear is like the deepest evolutionary cortex of your brain, and it has one job and its one job is your life is to keep you alive and specifically to keep you alive by preventing you from doing new things, because

your fear, if it doesnt know what something is, then it has an immediate caught. Toggle switch, but like sounds the clocks on horns. Like my mama, that's like shut it down because- and this is your fear talking- I don't know what that thing is, and I dont know what the outcome of that thing is going to be, and in order to keep you safe, I have to make sure that you never do anything where I fear cannot perceive what the outcome going to me and creativity is around where you will never know what the outcome is going to pay, and so, if you're gonna live a creative like you will be in a constant dance with fear, because your fear will always be like shut it down. This is gonna end in your death like this. Definitely going to end in your writing. Poetry. Now this will end in our death because I dont even know about it. You know for me in my whole, life of creativity has been about establishing

killing, loving synaptic conversation between my creative minds and my fearful mind and not trying to throw your way or kick it out or show it whose boss or do anything to stop at our culture. Teachers are unfair because it doesnt work any time. I've ever tried to prove your way. It comes back twice the strong because

then it gets a signal that there is real trouble right. So I just talked to a brain lovingly end and constantly and throughout the entire creative process is not something in two once or twice or ten times. It's in everyday thing, where I have to say to fear: I understand and respect completely why you're acting like this, because you don't know how this is gonna end, but I've written a few palms before and so far no one has died from then so I'm just you just speaking, is really reassuring poison. You explained to it what you're doing and that you are going to continue doing it and that you allowed at the fear, gets to be there. Since I think what happens is that we have this misunderstanding that you're gonna get to some point. Your life for you gonna, be fearless, and I think that the only fearless people in the world

are either fully enlightened guru, masters of whom there are few am or sociopaths, of whom there are an end, and the rest of us are just gonna have to learn how to feel that and to work with it and a rounded and through it, but never never without it. So I guess I guess what I want. I just want to normalize. Did your experience and tell you that I go through it constantly? I expect that I will always go through it. I dont want to be a fearless person because I I don't think that's from your full person and in less you know, as I say so there were two fallen white men which case I'll, let you know, but until then I'm just resigned myself and accepted the fact that it is part of the human, psychological landscape and it's going to be with me and its prove rob dollar friend rabbi would say the fear, the butterfly and your stomachs and verify your stomach is proof that you ve got skin in the game and announced

that's all. It is here so that day what I had gone to, For those we really see what to see less speak out was imagine gosh. I don't know. Two hundred people in a room at the youngest duty, her and you- percent of leading us through these thoughts you and rob, and one of the exercises that you how to do, which was so powerful and I think, would be really powerful for people who are listening is to write a letter from her to ourselves from ours

fear so into remember that exercising can you talk than I've taught it a bunch of times. I mean it's incredibly simple but good, but it's more about the spirit that I try to get people into when they receive that letter and that whole workshop. But I did that day is essentially like a truth and reconciliation and peace accord. Hearing that you're gonna have within your psyche between you and all these divergent voices within yourself, so that you can all be integrated and be in get along with each other rather than being at war with each other. So I always say to people even at the first letter, the day has to be the letter from fear, because it's the first thing you're gonna, feel like we have to deal with it. It's the first thing in the room and in its quite simple I mean if it were you writing a letter. The prompt would be that I will give you the first two lines of the letter and in the first ones, have been generated,

Oh, I am your ear and this is what I want to tell you and then you just allow your fear to speak and as far as I'm concerned, every single sentence can begin with the phrase. I am afraid I'm afraid that, or I am afraid of, I am afraid that I am afraid of, and you just listen. This is not fancy writing, MRS just really and the way that I I teach people to receive. It is to imagine that say, imagine if you can, but you come from a dysfunctional family, I know you didn't even know each by me, yeah I read about them in books. You ve seen it in movies. Imagine that you can prove a family doesn't know how to communicate well emotion, and imagine that you are the first member of the family to have ever gotten well emotionally, while an emotionally healthy and imagine that you'd

not going back to the family, and you want to make peace with every member of the family and you're having a superior to the reconciliation, and I seek like it's a family of everyone's tired. Everyone is shredded, but there is one person who is kind Oh and is able to listen and all your job is to do when you write that letter from fear is to not interrupt it to not try to correct it, to not try to override it, but to just allow it to speak and to respect for we none violently, listen, and I give people of five or six minutes and they write the letter, and then I tell them how to sign it. Sincerely yours here and that's it and what's what what I find remarkable about it is is feared

governs and guides and terrifies so much for our lives. But the reality is very few people are able to fill the five minutes like once. You actually sit back and say: ok, let's hear what you have to safe here and you don't interrupt it. Doesn't it doesn't usually have that much to say and the things its afraid of, are few specific and maybe reasonable. You know I'm afraid to run out of money, I'm afraid my family is gonna die, I'm afraid this isn't it can be a success and you just let it speak. And then and then that's it once it's gonna learn to speak. He said, thank you so much for sharing, and then we can actually move on with heading toward creativity, because I think more than anything fear like all of us just wants to be like its being respect, boy heard and once its respectfully heard, If find that you tends to quiet down. If your employer, you probably know how challenging it is to higher. But right now you face,

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another letter that you had its right from persistence and I talked about that time. I wrote about it and one of my books, but I didn't remember this letter from fear and when I find that is crazy Is I'm writing a letter as someone who who was an offer of fiction who wanted right and a new category, and was, terrified of that, and I don't even remember having these fears, but I'm I read this letter saying I got chelles because I'm wanting to write a book that would become the biggest book. I've ever done and I'd even remember being so terrified of doing this thing and knocked thing and leaning into a new direction. So am I, It's amazing. I love when you sort of sea these when you see the patterns of your life should have come together again of like oh, I didn't remember that this was it.

And so I want to encourage listener so much that even I mean I'm in any around three I'm in a cheaper. I'm like all. I want to check all the boxes, and don't even know that I consciously would have allowed myself at that time to hold my fear and went to hold space, four atoms, and so I would just say to people were listening. If you don't feel like this I don't have any there's nothing. Really it's worth God. It's worth ten minutes to just see where this leads. You big it's so powerful? If only so, you can go back and look at it for years later and believe wow. Look what I was so terrified of back that yes yet end and look what has come to pass. Ire you know the fear is really like the guardian of the bridge

says meet, you know, none shall pass here like that. You buy an and really all at once it is to tell its tail light. So if you're there on the journey for creativity and you get to the bridge and fear, is like the troll that says, you're not allowed to pass the simplest way to quieted down is to sit down and make it but the inside. Tell me your story. Tell me what you're afraid of and then it will. Let you go by its quite miraculous truly did it. I mean I remember that day is so special, but I couldn't hold you why I remember how I should like Ireland anywhere and wrote the biggest book of the next thing that we talked about that day was enchantment. And this idea of what is enchantment and what does that look like an hour ago, eyes, and how does that? How would you describe that people who are familiar with your terms it was actually a sort of refined. My

I'm description of it. Even since that workshop, I used to think of it as a synonym for a magic and I used to try to get people to look into themselves and see when was like, whereas their sense of it, When was the last time they encountered it, and then again you would write yourself a letter from your sense of enchantment, often saying hey, lose hey Ray I haven't seen you in a long time. You know the last time we were together within Europe, the ocean that time we saw those Stingray Ehrlich. Whatever happened now I M in a short hand, version of how you described the gentlemen would be its that in take a breath that you can't that in take a breath, is involuntary at the sight of wonder or amazement, and that is also part of your heart of your nature, not something that can be cultivated and when you're enchantment write you a letter is often very clear about. Telling you what it likes who likes to be with what brings it to life where either

who walks into the room and enchantment leaves you know that's a really good one. You know like who, when you see like enchantment, will tell me like when I see this person's name cover collar idea Eileen. So where's! You just need to know that you can either, have me in the room or you can have this person on the phone, but we both can't be in the room at the same time, because this person kills just send me away. I won't be with them and but now what I think of enchantment, as more is I think of it, is this study is slow. Oh hum of well being, and it such an elusive thing for people to feel, and particularly for women to feel because women carry so much anxiety, even women whose lives look on the outside, as though they got it made an shade are r vibrating at this incredibly high dizzying frequency

constant anxiety and now for me, where I find my cabin is when I can get when I'm relaxed it's almost a synonym for relaxed and and that's because that's when creativity comes to me more easily and so now I feel like I don't have to chase wonderful experiences. I don't have to see like sparkle unicorn, jumping over rainbows in Nepal. I mean that's how I chased enchantment, you may twenties and thirty's was like chasing heightened experiences and now I just know that if I am at ease and well within myself, then my creativity will flow very nicely. And that's all makes them is, is to just so now. I would just say your and challenge is the thing that makes you feel well and am, and am very specific about the difference between feeling well and feeling good, because we will chase a lot of things that make us feel good, but they don't.

This will make us feel well and there is a really big difference between feeling, good and feeling, while I'm feeling good is fleeting and an often comes with consequences. With this, as a lot of us know like chasing that things can make it a really good. Instantaneously is also going to diminish and vanished and sustainably and leave you with. I don't know open marriage or a big credit curtain hell or an addiction. Hiker were all three but feeling. Well, feeling well like what makes you feel like your shoulders are up in your ears. What makes you feel like your stomach doesn't have twists in it. Who can you be with and present in room and you can actually breathed fully and let your guard down that's enchantment to me now. That's what I think and act as Nirvana than that most magical place, because we have so few experiences with feeling. Well, we are suspicious that that's boring or bland urban. Our

but actually it's really yummy. It is the number one question women in my community. It is the number one thing, the women's struggle with his anxiety at something. I debilitating for me for a lot of years, and I did a lot of work to figure How to my wife- and I too am to beyond off and serve with her instead of just waiting until I was in a full blown anxiety spiral, but one of the things that I got so many times emails and letters about this over the years- and I have I knew that I can it gave each individual person advice without context of what each individual life was, and so I just started started speaking too simple things

had helped me therapy and moving my body every day and not having twenty seven espressos innocent the data that have helped me jack me up and kind of. Allow me to do this work so Those were really surface level on ways to that I was, no things, eighty, but at the route, I think so often- and maybe this is- sweeping generalization, but when women tell me that their struggling with anxiety, the questioner always ask is: who are you trying to? Please those who are you or do you think you're supposed to be? Who are you hi into within two like I'm. What is as dissidents between who you are your core and what you ve been told that you are supposed to

lay or have the body of or be the kind of mother, be the kind of life or be a mother or wife at all. An idle I'd be secured to hear if you have a perspective on that at such a good question I mean the question you asked me, but even more so the question you ask them and who wow I feel like that's a real gift and the question of who are you trying to please, To even know that, that's what you're doing I think, for many women, it's so ingrained in the groundwater. In the breast milk that your tree came ass, a child. Listen, you know it's like it's like hormones in beef, it's just it's everywhere. You know it's like you're, taking it in all the time to be pleasing that it is your job to be pleasing in all ways and

that almost killed me that almost killed me as anybody who were at the first sexually. How is it that's the closest I ever got into that was trying to was trying to. Stay in marriage trying to stay in a marriage that was that looked from the outside, like everything I had been taught was, was what I was forced to want and I'd ticked all the boxes. And I got the husband and I got their house and I got you know we're about to have kids and instead of having kids, I headed a nervous breakdown, because my My internal nature, I'm just, could not live in that will in the world that I had created comparing created very obediently in very innocently in order to be pleasing and- and

back at that younger version of myself now and I just want to take her chubby twenty nine year old, cheeks in my hand and say I'd gas, no good guess if there's nothing else, that anyone who is listening takes away from this. If you can look at your younger self and by younger self, I mean you're younger self from last week, you last night, all the way back to your young herself from earliest memory, and you see all those stupid things she did and all those wrong moves. She did and others wrong people she loved another wrong decisions that she made and others one people that she trusted and if you can just look her in the eye and say good gas, good gasped. Has at all. It is, you know, is that you, you know we're trapped as souls into these bodies landed into our families. Are cultures trained up learned up? Do you know tat?

that end and then it would be a very good gas to then go How in the world and be like this is what's gonna make you happy? This is what I've been shown. How in the world, Would you know any different? the only way I mean the great away there is always suffering. He knows this, anxiety I mean my anxiety was medicated, you know, but it was also my great. It was also the the chisel of awakening for me, I'm because There is no way that I was going to radically change the direction of my life and less. I was in more so much pain that I was almost go diet and that's that's where I was at an end But I have also just discovered when I end up back in a doctor's office, because I've gone on and off antidepressant a few times in my life and an entire anxiety medication

some, knowing that this place, where and I've, been off it for long periods of time and then you know find myself wanting to go, talked her doktor about anymore and I end again, everyone needs took to chart their own path on. This and its and in no way a universal prescription. But for me I'll just tell you very personal way. If I'm in a doctor's office asking for Xanax again, then I'm wine to somebody lying to myself about something that is now as clear to me as day and there's something that's happening in my life, and I have not yet found the courage, courageous voice to speak. And so instead I want medicated, and so I need to figure out what I'm lying and that's very painful, but it gets me out of those doctors offices, because you know I can be like our major I've made another good gas

not I've made. Another mistake I mean another fucking wreckage, not I'm another correct like oh. I see that I have just made another really good gas, and my incredible son and anxiety. Is it flew that that was the incorrect direction from my life go in, and now I'm going to have to do that hard thing again of changing it again, which I will to do now and now at the age of fifty I can say I do that a lot faster, I've gotten a lot less on accepting of suffering raised. To think that there is a certain amount of suffering that I was required to endure. Just like a decent person and now I'm like owner no? This is, as you know, and the most powerful words a woman can ever express this isn't working for me. Yes, isn't working for me, it there's no blame in it. There's no shame in it. It's just like yeah, I'm dying here, and I also realise, like I'm really do I'm pretty simple

in a similar way. I only really do have to settings. I neither tanking around thriving and now, when I start tanking, unlike ok, something's wrong, I like it had taken a good gas, had taken a really the gas in it the head into the dark one to bear, and now I go back track and I might need to end some relationships and they might need to change your plans and some people's feelings make at her might have to cry a lot, but I'm I'm going back because I actually now know that I'm going in the proper direction and I'm not telling lies. I do very well, and I do very well immediately and I have that annex, prescription and night, the cabinet- and I never even open it. It has said that it takes all it takes, is radical truth telling and the willingness to continue we change direction based on. Wrong gases. Is that what you're saying So simple and unlike rings like so true,

And then I also know that the I'm sure I bet you get it as a criticism, and I know I any woman who would say something go response would be your being selfish you're me sulphur there I my perception is that you have done work and have evolved to a place where you don't hold what whether or not someone thinks you're selfish, but if you're listening to this end. Thirty, three year old mother of two and The idea of, like I think from my own, my own it took me a very long time to understand, That's what I wanted for my life was the most important that what my husband wanted from mere what my parents wanted for me or even what my children would wish for me, It is not as. Import nor valuable as what I want, and that is maybe

I don't know your community what data, but my community, that that's radical. That's a radical notion article eight of them out there without anybody else getting too to have an opinion inside of it I had insomnia last night, it's not something I've dealt with in a really long time, but given everything that's going on in my life currently and the world currently, I couldn't seem to shop my mind off which sucks because sweep is so stinking important to me that such a big part of me being able to perform the next day in the way that I want to as a mom

and a leader, and so I thought I would share a few ideas with you guys about if you are having trouble sleeping, if your struggling with insomnia, some things that help me don't laugh but came a Milton I know it seems like Samir Grandma do, but it does help me get into the zone for sleep making sure that the room is setting the right temperature from me that seventy one degrees focusing on deep breath really paying attention to in and out as I go and make ensure that I'm sleeping in the right way. It's why we, because I wanted to make sure that I had the best option available to get good sleep and if you have needed a new mattress, if you're at home when you're like man. This is that to get good sleep? And if you have needed a new mattress of here at home in Europe like man? This is the time I want to start.

Investing in good sleep. Then good news, sleep number, is the lowest. It will be all season during the lowest prices of the season. You can save four hundred dollars on a sleep number three hundred and sixty c4 smart bed available for one thousand two hundred and ninety nine only for a limited time at seat number stores or sleep number, dot, com, slash, rice, Well, I think selfish is the most powerful word of tribal, shaming and tribal. Shaming is the most powerful means of controlling people, I'm end and so also who's calling that impacts on how heavily at lands. I knew right so like a somebody's going to that in an instagram Herman, I might be, would have you know like,

a family member is calling me died, that's more that's more troubling! That's for people like how close you are to me, as is what's going to what's gonna Willie hermit, but I think that the word selfish is it is awaited. Tat is really just a way to tell women to stay in their in their and it seemed very powerful tool. Powerful control, I stayed in. My very unhappy marriage for Polly three more years of my precious life, I'm because that word used against me could just put me right back in my way. You know it's like you know it got me. It's happening right back down on my heels now until until really it was the choice of I'm, I'm I'm not saying this facetious about am either going to kill myself or have to leave,

and- and so I think what I've come to now is not a word about that work anymore, because I know my own heart, and I know that I am a kind and loving you generous person whose whose intention would never be too cause harm to anybody, and I also know that I am I'm an earth schooling and the student, and I'm learning said mercy that I showed myself on that, but I I also know that I mean I don't know this, but this is how I see it. I feel like if I had to take a gas at how the universe works in this way, my own personal, the hard she is that I was given one soul to take stewardship over and to take care of it. It's my own. It would appear to be because it's the one I spend my time with right, so it would have

here, but this is the one that's my response, because I've had it for my whole life and and- and I don't remember asking for those given- they gave me this body- they gave me these talents. They gave me these mental illnesses gave me these obstacles. They didn't these character defects. They gave me this whole sort of sufferers system like to think when I say they I mean whatever mysterious forces, run the universe I like to think that they gave way to me to the one we call is that they gave her to me to take care of because they believed that I could and so I like to show that I can by taking really good care of her, and I didn't always do that.

What I used to do was take care of everybody else, so that they would say that I was good and a good girl and definitely that they would not say that I was selfish, but my stewardship, I dont, think my stewardship is over everyone's opinions. I think my stewardship is over this being also learned that if I don't take care of her no one else can I mean nobody else. Stewardship means. I accept that this one is mine, and a lot of my good gases earlier in my life were about trying to find people. Who would do that for me trying to find people who would take stewardship over me and keep me safe and keep me happy and keeping reassured and keep me feeling and some people made really mighty efforts- it's not like, I'm sure of it

I've had some really lovely people, my wife who had certainly go the extra mile to try to take care of me, but I dont think anymore that it's their job and and just even in the last few years, something about turning fifty two and having really curated a relationship with this view can we call is any amount of affection, but I have for her now. This real sense of friendship, like we talk a lot about self love, but such a lofty aim in it so high and out of reach friendship would just be great, like essential, just a general sense of friendliness toward yourself and I'm not really good friend. You know so now. My friendliness is primarily toward her and Ample of that is a relationship I ended where

I see it what it wasn't working from here, I can just put it right and I don't need to go into the details about rule was when it was by. I could feel myself going into that lockdown load up. You ve got to make this work. You ve got to make this work because he puts on the shepherd into her ready because people's hopes are because your hopes are because young women together now because you ve come this far, because you want to prove that you can. You knew all of these, like heavy sender, blocks of responsibility, myself and I just remember one night trying to explain it very sober way trying to explain to this person how to look after me when I was feeling anxious, and not an historical, maybe just really almost like the operating instructions like this is how you saw you operator if you want to have one in your life, if you will, How would you like she comes with all these great things? Michel has this thing, but I also know myself,

I'm not. I'm gonna give you three things you can do that will totally work and make your lives feel better instantly in these are what they are. You know like it was really ledges breaking it down in the simplest way and and this prison is entirely unable to do any of them or even understand lives. Talking about I've got up to leave the room to do something, and I felt this small voice inside me say to me. Please get me out of here. You know, and I said to her- I put my hand in my chest and I said out loud to her, I'm going to get you wait out of here. And by the time that person get back room. I was dressed and city on the edge of the bed, and I said in a very clear boys, just wanna. Let you know that the romantic and sexual aspect of this relationship is simple. And it's got nothing and your lovely ready to get her out of here, because this is a really bad requirement for her to be added she's. My responsibility and she's. My responsibility,

because I M for reasons I will never know. I was given stewardship council this one and I've got to go, take care of her now and I wish you well where's my coat You know like that, and now in this were twenty years ago, I would have stayed in that firm. I would put myself here more of that, but I just and quicker now to be like oh no. This is a tanking situation, not a thriving situation and they so no that I I can leave. I can leave people. I can move situations I can leave places, because I know that I can create a woman living environment for less, so I don't need to stay anywhere, and when I was younger. I didn't know that I thought I needed to stay here to get warm. Thank you to stay there to get. While I need to stay here, to get an affirmation only to state I can anywhere like I can do this. I can really provide for her.

You know and I dont mean provide. I can provide prematurely, but I mean I can. I can take really good friendly care of this being who has been put into my hands and then they can choose where the girl went to leave and it's such a different world than the one I was in a quarter of a century ago where all of that had to come from the outside and all about how to come from the approval of my family, my spouse, my neighbors, my friends and I and that voice was banging saying. Please get me out of your please get me out of here and I was suffocating her I knew, cannot exist, shut up, go back in your whole, I'll, bring you a crust of bread at midnight. You know like and now I know, I'm like oh sweetheart, let's go now. Where do you want to go? Where do you wanna go baby? Let's get up a desert like I'm my own thelma. Nor is there

you know we, as readers of your work, have been able to sort of watch that progression in that we would like slowly have taken us on this journey of the last. However many years- and I was wondering today, as you know, she, didn't and awaken, for lack of a better term am until five or six years ago, and with every passing year. I feel like that walls- and I just I've heard so many women talk about a man when you turn forty or when you turn fifty year, God bless Oprah every five year she's like sixty the air or even every time she turned the new age. He tells us like this in the decade dioxin, I love the most. Was wondering: do you think that's age, or do you think that.

You are slowly building the foundation of poor you're going to become, but maybe it takes into a certain point before you have encouraged same thing yeah I mean, I think it just takes a really long time to learn how to operate itself. And I like it, takes a really long time. It's we are lax organisms. You know it's taken me really like when I was able to say to the person who has in my view, this is how you take care of all is the only way, I was able to do. That was because I finally have figured out like. How can you even tell someone how to take care of you? You don't know how to take care of you and how can you possibly neither do I when you're younger it takes, we are setting the most complex, organisms that we are aware of and the universe apart from the universe itself, and it takes a minute to figure out how to drive one of these things, you know, that's why you have to have an incredibly merciful attitude of good gasket gas. Good guess you know if you're a genius again.

You learn by other people's mistakes, but I'm not that kind of thing. I'm just barely stand. And to learn from my own right, and so you ve got to accumulate alot of these kind of like bumper, like webs whoop back. It sorry note is that it was this, but is that you know I thought this was a parachute put a backpack full breaks. Oh, I thought you were my salvation, but you are good. We're gonna be tied up in due course Coquetry our shared. That was a good gas. Yet no, you know it takes. It takes a minute, and so you know think, unless you're really not paying attention, unless you are almost wilfully, not paying attention, you know. I think you cannot help get wiser as you get older and I think there's no way to not get happier as you get wiser and so its end. It just goes it incomplete opposite, it's like opposite age, the terror, the terrifying story that Call-

tells you as a woman about what you're best years are and what you're best worth. Are you doing, and that's just Larry yesterday at this point you know it's like who ever since anybody a story that you know when you're youngest and dubious and your networks, the best is when you're gonna be the. How did you know that Ray he's right. That is right literally psychologically crazy The ECB has, all you have to do, is talk young women and talk to old women have to get the truth. I wasn't only very recently in a woman, a lovely woman, Razor heritage said I've got a question for you. Twenty one years old, and I just said I was really I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but it's going to get so much better. I had to be twenty one one slash two like we all have to get through it, but you'll get to her and someday you'll be fifty, and it's going to be awesome.

Yet about play. I won t be cognisant of and respectful of your time. So I will I would just like to talk to you for the next eighteen hours, capsules, weird I want to ask a question: that's pretty selfish because they don't know that this will help was in areas which is always, my intention went the Pied cast, but its Gary that I get to seek to another author who had something you had a prey love. And I had a similar experience and I just dont ever get to speak to someone about what it feels like to accidently, create something that went. I mean I don't I don't make You didn't accidently her. I never in my wildest dreams like tat, people read my book before this one by gray hand just it was it such a unique experience that so few people have, and what

I'm curious and I love love, love and start learning out. Referencing, big man. But I love you. Talking about was its kill. Mocking bird and you wish that she had written like I'm story, I could look so she would sort of have shaken off the success of this thing in been able to get you to create, so I would just love to hear what it felt like for you to navigate, because I find myself and on the joke is I never wanted writing to me my job. It was always my love, it was always my passion. It always is murder. Think that I dead end. People read my books and I freak and loved it, because if they stopped, if they were all some, I wasn't I just creating to create suddenly something became

so successful that now that thing became identity right and then you sort of get miss snowball of everyone wanting you to be that thing. I want you to create more of this thing, I now invite only we know how I did at that time. I can't repeated I dont know how did the first on yeah? What is it like for you to navigate, and I feel like it, at least from the outside, loved watching your career. When you don't know how I'm going to do six, then, and now I'm going to I'm going to talk to you about creativity and I'm going to do fiction again, and I have to assume that when you have excessive pray, love that everyone just wanted you to do the next April last year, which I you know I would have been happy to do, If I knew how you know, I think it's all accidents, or you knew I think, in a weird way, just directly to you, I would say that you get your fortunate

as you already have the experience of writing, something that only ten people read and having not be perfect. So yes, You know in your body of a body we psychological memory of what it feels like to make something that people don't care about and for you to be ass, some so tat its self should or could be if you focus on that, an amazing piece of liberation, which is to say I can, do again, whatever I like- and I that isn't had this, I had the same thing like my first book of shirt. Whenever people come swings, I love your first look at me, pretty sure tat. Nobody pray love, which was my fourth book. You know, I'm pretty sure you didn't love my small litter collection of short stories that eleven people have read. You know, but I loved it, am I loved it end. And I also with green with with with her anybody reading it. So that puts you in a better situation than hyperbole, because that, because

to kill. My chamber was our first book, so anybody who has like huge success straight out the gay. I think that is an enormous obstacles, because they don't have the experience of knowing what it feels like to do stuff that nobody cares about, and you just do it because you like doing so. One thing I would say is that it sounds me, like I'm your writing prior to your explosive success, was your medicine on and that it was something that you did, because it makes you feel well, as we were discussing about that, that low hum of well being matches feels good right. So and this I'll put out there to anybody for a lot of us. For many of us, creativity was our first medicine and in a lot of us Trump is anxious people and I was really anxious kid. My creative outlets for my first medicine, so writing was a place that I went to because I could disappear into it. I could have a holiday from having to be myself.

I could forget- you know like that. I'd look up a couple hours passed in and I got to spend. I mean this is the greatest gift in the world. I got to spend a few hours, not thinking about myself. Can wholesalers, and that is like there is no. Greater peace. You will ever have been not thinking about yourself right, so artists of creative endeavours, part of the reason that it so medicinal, it's one of the great gifts that the universe has given to humanity is that when you are making something creative, you get a reprieve from having to think having to worry having to be so. If a few one of these people, where we agreed to be with you, first medicine, and then you know generally, what happens? Is that usually red adolescence? We discover that medicines that culture has created, which are short cuts of well being said that only Discover said

some substances and shopping and other things that begin with us and we started you can use that too. Many cares our success in a week. We regret that we put the creativity aside, but if you, if you are using creativity, is your medicine and then it became something that was marketed, and then it became something that was like your career. My suggestion to you is that you find another thing to do that creative, purely because it's fun, I'm so you're going to need new medicine, because It's your medicine becomes mark. The market goes out the marketplace, which means people have opinions about it and then there's other people's tied to its success. Got agents and you got editors and you ve got follow. Where is and you ve got brand me, I don't know ever like there's like this whole thing around your medicine. It's not that it's become corrupted, it's perfectly fine, it's a lovely gift. What happened to you and it's a lovely gift? What happened to me? It's just

now. You need a different medicine, because everybody needs to have something in their life that they can do. That has no sticks no stakes whatsoever, and so, instead of me trying to catch you to get back to the way you used to feel about writing when it was innocent, go find something else, the Tennyson. So for me, after you pray love, it was gardening and I moved to a big house that a beautiful backyard and I didn't write through probably before I wrote the final that's a committed. There is putting a year and a half writing write a word because I too, I literally didn't know how to I am know how to write in the aftermath of the love. So I just put it I just put it away and I was willing to also accept the fact that maybe I was done writing you mean my whole journey had been so that I could write this book that seem to help a lot of people and then maybe I was done electrical b. I don't know gonna wines,

Landscaping school or something or just do something to prevent? And I was a hundred percent willing for that- to be true and- and I decided to just spend a year, making most beautiful garden and they did in ITALY it was in the autumn of the second year of the garden that all of a sudden, while I was suddenly waking, leaves and putting the guard into bed at the first line of them. But what would become the book committed kind of floated down into my head? those like. I see I could write it. Ok, I gotta admit I just went, wrote it and by all by all calculus the book the came after you pay love was not a success. I mean it was if you, if I were, if I were a ford five hundred company and your gauging me on my profit margins and how well I did on my next product, which not you know it wasn't really. Thirteen million people ready, praying I think. Maybe I don't know me, maybe some five hundred thousand copies of communal dial now and then,

We didn't want it. You know like they wanted a preliminary in that's fairer and- and I know I know, people who would come up to me in tears further under only say you are my favorite. Who ever lived. Your work is the most important to me and the entire world love and worship you and I could see them. Have you read committed, maybe like now manage to do that and I'm like its literally the sequel to eat pray. My only the signal in like manner want it and then you can't make- and I think it's hilarious. It's like. I can't pay people to read my book you know it was a great victory, because something had to be the book. The came after me I love, or else I would never write again an army, and so once that book was out there in the world and people. Like Nana want it. I was like coolness.

I get to go back to writing whatever the fuck I want has known care for it, so I will tell you get a hobby gotta happy that doesn't have any any financial or abortion or stakes to you and then you know: you'll something's gonna have to be the next thing and people whether opinions about it, but then you'll be free and your kind of free the whole time. Apart from the mine games. I love that I'm so grateful. I am so grateful for the time, I'm so grateful to get to look you and your eyes. Even during a screen was done, then I know that the audience is gonna be incredibly blast side as well. So thank you so much you're talking from her just assuming that someone living under rock and they don't know where to find new online. What's your favorite place, staying out of people online Instagram, I'm at Elizabeth Underscore Gilbert under

or a writer, because I was a late adapter two instruments, but yeah, but you can buy me they're got it. You know I gotta website you just my name is given it'll take you somewhere. The latest book is called City of girl city of girls, the up it's a novel about its fun rollicking. If you need escape from you're, feeling a lot of anxiety It is a very light, very fine, very sexy story about young woman who moved to New York City, the nineteen fortys and goes on it goes bender with bunches showgirls unknown and his writing about it from her old age. With a lot of pride, so yeah, you can check that it is truly a tonic. If you need to not be thinking about pandemics, where's Gilbert. Thank you. So much for your time here, handling that Sunday we get to

me and my wife, I hope so. I hope all of us get to Sunday meet each other guys, but remember that when people could meeting place take her sweetheart, Thank you for having the urine and energy have fun with your new boats takes hobby and done. And it's all, gonna, be all right.