« Slow Burn

S3 Ep. 3: What's Beef?


In this episode: Biggie releases “Who Shot Ya,” an instant hip-hop classic that Tupac takes as a personal affront. Tupac calls out Biggie and Puffy in a jailhouse interview. And the Death Row and Bad Boy crews start preparing for war.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This podcast, as has language, that some people might find offensive previously on slow burn to Portugal. Becoming a superstar, music and film. Meanwhile, his life is coming apart. Unknown we're thirtieth. Ninety. Ninety four in New York City, rockstar tobacco, or is listed in serious but stable condition. Tonight he was shot five times apparently in a random robbery last night, known gunmen attack to pack into lobby quite studios, whereas and biggest malls. Recording the next day to park was found guilty of sexual abuse. After that he was taken to Rikers Island to await sentencing The songs that may notorious Biagi famous were the ones who never want to record quickly, even like big popular or juicy his producer gnashing Merrick, you got
It took up the two big problem, not the last July. I think he did for the juicy and big papa what. First singles off of biggest first album ready to die These were the songs. They got the heavyset twenty two Euro Christopher Wireless on MTV, I'll juicy was a hit. It was big. Papa reach number one of the rap charts. The infectious brought listeners in what one Over was the warmth and big his voice sounded made him both relate of all and totally unique, took place with the Dalai Lama to least make moves with all, but the Teddy Bear image came through in those songs. Wasn't the whole story Biggie had started dealing drugs is a thirteen year old dropped out of school at sixteen, and spend a few years, hustling in his home town of Brooklyn, and in Rally North Carolina. We wrapped about that life. He was speaking from experience
Here's trail who diary Koker, who wrote the Biggie Biography unbelievable. He had a certain charisma managed. It's I mean he had a look about himself in way about himself that he had to ST crap. You know that's why Biggie talks about the struggle, because it's like you may just enough money, You do some based with self shit, but then you you're still out there gettin rob yes, out there with you I find the line in ninety ninety two big you got written up into and on hype, column of the source, one of the early, influential hip, hop magazines that brought biggest tape to the attention of Sean puffy Combs. We Matteo couple Longo plate the tape for puffy. He remembers the hip hop mogul had one question my recollection, immediately after planet is. Is him asked me about how he looks come along it was better known as Mattie see he wrote the unsigned hype, column, good site, you removes excited, like everybody, knew he was the fashion guy. That's what puff did he took an artist? Any put the right
Alfred on omen. You know: that's not so you want to know what he was working with. He just he's gotta know how local keys pressing me like a like a is busy fat fat like easy, fat, boys, fat or heavy defect. Citizens and mean between maybe puffy saw Biggie. As an option it version of heavy D. A lovable plus Womanizer. What must factors we both got logic it I've got in the midst of these did not know me. Puffy was every bit the star that is, artists were he'd, appeared, music videos and in an ad campaign for fashion designer calculi, hip, hop brightest, Scott pulse Brian. Wrote, their puffy was his own best. Logo. Puffy saw Biggie twice. First, to attack records and then later to his own label, bad boy which put up biggest biggest hits.
Juicy was erects riches story. Big Papa was mostly about the riches biggie like those songs and their videos got him noticed. But here, totally sold on the image that they created form. He wanted to make a different kind of music muse it sounded like with national. My Rick was cooking up market. As a community college dropout from Queens he was work. As an engineer puff studio when he made his first beat. Has been heard. You say that no brainer MA beat wasn't lush and funky like biggie, sits tents and sparse, like a film nor soundtrack, my biggest still thought of himself as a street hustler, any wrote verses from irish track that reflected we'd come from and what he'd been through, big, my rigs collaboration was calm, who shot you it release late February, nineteen. Ninety five as a beast
two big power who such reports they saw a little to the store, Biggie tells and who shot is simple and brutal, someone's out to get him the biggest drop on his phone. What's mother think the contact in both must be cheap The song begins with the violence get during your presidency who shot you an instant class it and it showed the rat world. Biggie wasn't just a good natured player. He and a lot of commercial stuff. Now I mean to the public
get the album new big foot, a radio choice. There really know him further where he meant to do like what he loved to do. What he does did, who shatter comes out at a single radio picks up on that and his heart is hell, is too high joint one ready? It also thrust biggie and his crew into the middle of a conflict they wanted no part of, Who shot? You came out a few months after to pack was shot by unknown assailants in the lobby of quiet studios, soup, was incarcerated, hurt and suspicious. He already wondered bigger puffy knew who detected or if they might have been involved. I Biggie, was putting out a which she who shot you a gun asked himself as a gunman. How did biggie into pack communicate amiss communicate after the quad shootin? How did the hip hop world order?
has itself run across country turf war in which a bucket the prison? Was it they turn things around. This slow burn, I'm your host, Joel Anderson, and this is episode three what's beef, so was who shot you're really directed to pack now she married who worked on it with Biggie says no. It's like Why don't we see that we will even repayment Can't you do that. If they, Norway, the world were mistake there. Now, We have no reason, no motive at all. They have set pack up Where's the motive was with the issue, but super couldn't be sure. That's how beast into s
with a series of ambiguous provocations, went too is being carried out. A quad studios on a stretcher he'd stuck up his middle finger biggest childhood friends. She go Deauville. Was there that night? He says Biggie thought the gesture was directed at him to pot dissolved. The elevator the hospital bed, he was a mile. Look at us put his middle up like fuck, you niggers to your right Tupac thought. Maybe who shot it was biggest response, not long before he heard who shot you Tupac was angry about something else. A newspaper article that ran in New York's village voice that article was by the journalist, hooray. Three argued the tupac was a mediocre wrapper, but a master performance artist, he'd watch, Tupac in court and he'd say Tupac make his dramatic speech us out the courthouse, the one where call Diana Jackson, a woman scorned he described to parliament. Public life from persona. The multiple arrest
The violent Assad Acquire studios, the courtroom, appearance in a wheelchair is dangerously compelling and ecstatically brilliant, that ongoing performance to re wrote his his lack lustre, professional work, culturally, relevant and commercially viable tupac, it all this. While he was locked up in Rikers Island and he felt profoundly hurt. Three was calling him fake answer. I think that his wild ups and downs were nothing but a front, so Tupac called another writer. When he thought would be more sympathetic to his point of view, I got the call I was the only journalist Tupac wanted to talk to to tell the story because he trusted me. That's cavern pow Paul was familiar with. The idea of life is performance. Art in nineteen. Ninety two he'd been ass member on the first season of him tvs the real world on the show power slotted until the role of angry young black men. The following year, he met to pocket.
Music conference pop looked over at name. Smiled that smiled a big Tutsi grant. He always had an somehow we merged, and it was almost like those was no one else them. I'm saying and he said and I watched you on MTV's the real world at first season. I had your back on that show dog. Had your back on that show power. Working as a staff rider for vibe anymore just magazine founded by Quincy Jones and bankrolled by time, Warner at a time when most media outlets in taking up seriously five in the source allowed wrappers to promote their work. The Sab the prisoners and talk to their fans. Pow written a vibe cover story about Tupac in nineteen. Ninety four headline was: is Tupac, crazy or just misunderstood? that was still alive question a year later we power went to visit to packing Rikers the moment a two part started talking. Could he just starts bidding stuff out with her a member.
Is that we had edited out the piece of two part kept ending every sentence would would you would you could he was nervous? I remember him smoking cigarettes, for though he had the smoke cigarettes To get through it because he knew he was downloading something very heavy in two parts pow that this was his last interview. He said if I get killed, I want people to have the real story too. I said that he was still in pain from the injury seed suffered in the quad shooting and that he was having nightmares. The message was clear: what he'd been through wasn't a performance. It was real. But people who read Kevin PAL story didn't focus on two packs personal torment. Instead, seized on something else to pack said something about the ambush I'd studios to buy Topol that Biggie He might have had something to do with it. Tupac describe. The night and vivid detail the army,
fatigues as assailants war, which made him think they were Biggie Security, guys the way they kicked and stopped. As though they were mad at him. How puff wouldn't come near him afterwards. The story Tupac told was Cindy here. I think it was cartographer him just to say these things do. I think it was right for him to implicate ditty and biggie. No, no, no. I mean and keep in mind biggie into Papa. Very were friends. They were friends. Why, in two parts, mine we're bigger puffy of headed, inform what was their motive Maybe he thought Biggie was filling competitive and sought but as an obstacle to success. But maybe Tupac suspicion was born of jealousy. Biggie was on the rise and Tupac felt here ever gotten enough credit from entering him or maybe to pack never really thought they were involved, and he just wanted to start some highly visible trouble
What now she's my rethinks according to merit puffy visited Tupac unrighteous before the vibrant. If you came out specifically the cell to pack that he and Biggie had nothing to do with the quad shooting they tell me they went to the tow path, begin early do with their impact. I already did divide jointly said hurriedly he was a day a payday thy part was they damages? Did you have a veto but pardon We can only do it, but you know one a make moves that Gotta be real process. More. Do I use debtors, Do you think it was? Our hype was a true. If you're looking to reduce unnecessary trips out and trying to
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Debuted a number one of the billboard charts by that time to pocket been moved Clinton Correctional Facility, a code, in isolated maximum security prison in far Upstate New York. He was one biggest stars in the world and he was broke incarcerated and publicly using his former friends setting him up vibe reached out the puffy and big for comment, but they declined to respond Gordo vat remembers biggest reaction. He was upset because, like you you get be in Cuba. Celine do end of it when his face. He knows and doing it for you just pissed off about this whole situation. Because I do not do this night. Come clean with us by eating sober. Don't do this stay away from it and puff like hell, you know it is the students music man and gives no stay focused. They became increasingly hard to focus on music, though the whispers about Biggie
puppies involvement in two parts: shooting never went away and who shot you cloud at the pitcher B, in puffy decided they needed to defend themselves and the army. Nineteen. Ninety five issue, a vibe biggie, said he wasn't involved in the quad shooting that who shot you wasn't about Tupac? He also. Provide that the next time he saw two part. He wanted an apology. Puffy set the to pack Got a lot of people in a lot of bullshit. With that interview, this back and forth wasn't just about Biggie, puffy and Tupac. A personal beef was quickly turning to a regional one LOS on the wrapper. The Tupac was supposed to record with that night at the quad had come up in Brooklyn he so vibe niggers on the West Coast of saying YO tell their niccolo shown to be careful. Cause Niggers on the West Coast. Call in his name. Pop, had been born in New York in represent it always looked down on rap scenes and other parts of the country, his damp. China's who wrote for the source and later works
Rick Rubens american recordings label. It wasn't beef, it was essentially condescension from New York to the rest of the country, except maybe Philly and that meant from everywhere else in the country towards New York and in the offices of the source. In the letters that came in to the editor you could see, a lot of the resentment of the condescension. So people, on the West Coast, was sick and New York and, like an old hip hop one of those people was marrying should night and he had decided to do something about it. Night was six foot for more than three hundred pounds. He'd been nickname should as a kid because of a sweet disposition but he changed. His had grown up sugar work as a bodyguard for popular musicians, which gave him a sense of all the money to be made in the music industry. He moved into management and publisher, use his connections and intimidating presence to build a Rostov Artis. His big move came in
to ninety one when he found that the wrapper and produce a doctor, Dray was ready to quit and w using his talent for persuasion should help drake it out of his recording contract and together they founded death row records the music death row put out was something new in wrap, more violent, more graphic, more derivative, a fuck, music and ultimately more power. Yeah, I guess so- black dress, which makes the text the labels. First to release. It would raise the chronic and doggie style batteries. Protegee soup dog eat dog, They were both huge, its new dog eat dog his album doggie style was a hot selling album in the country this week, beating everyone from Pearl jammed Sinatra in October, while flesh with success should shopped around for more talent. He put together group called the dog pound. Anything
the former gospel singer, who appeared on snoops early demo tapes Nate dog sure even tried to push the routine clan from their label. But wrapper should want it most of all was to pack in nineteen. Ninety three he given Tupac two hundred thousand dollars to contribute a song to a movie soundtrack. Even so too. Continue putting out his albums on Aeroscope a label was partly owned by Time Warner and that had a deal to destroy. Death throes releases by Ninety five things look different tupac a huge star, but he was stuck in Peru. In Indiana, more New York, a place so remote did. The quickest way to see him was the flying to Canada and dry. Our two have self facing up to visit him in prison of equipment correctional facility- that's too, leaving one or two packs. Entertainment attorneys datum so it's just you walk in it. I've been to prisons before, but I've been to white collar cases.
As before, but I've been to white collar cases eyes and worse. Will you help cases through IKEA securities shorter like this. This is like you're, heavy duty stuff worthy the guys are carrying a submarine guns and everything else. It's all this concerning. It was a hard. As for famous wrapper for one thing, Pliny aghast The street wanted to make a name for themselves by challenging a celebrity for another. As we covered in our last episode, most law in force, Officers were big rap fans and Hard said ways of making two packs life difficult. The guy comes by and ceremoniously puts his glove on his hand ass. His own party, as it's time for rectal exam and I said what are you talking about Iraq through their Ivan City of a six out of them, fully clothed with your prison guards on the care work above me, added slipping
thing and through his anus either we have to check and the judges. Do it too to humiliate you so to pop still traumatized by the Quad Studios, assault and recovering from multiple bullet wounds. Being abused by guards and threatened by fellow inmates. He was placed on lockdown for smoking weed and although he had the number one album and the country he was still broke, He spent a lot of money recording the album and more and lawyers signal several trips to data more on those visits, should toe to pack the dead or would be better for him than in scope should set death row could make him a bigger star and he promised to support to pack no matter what he also said. He'd helped to pocket bailed out of prison before the quad shooting to pack had been seen as either an east coast or West Coast wrapper he'd spent part of childhood in Baltimore and when it started wrapping, he caught himself M C New York
He'd come of ages, the performer in California, but as an adult. He's been a lot of time and limb, but now everyone was choosing sides in the hip, Hop press was making EAST versus Wes wraps biggest most combustible storyline. I was quite disturbed: A different magazine, such as the source envy magazine and what they were doing to the music by putting These calls verses West coast and acid stopped their debts. You sitting on storm. That's J brow? He goes by doktor dry, but he's not that doctor dry this doctor Dray was a weekday co host on Yo Mtv wraps, which made One of the most recognizable faces and hip hop when the sorceress, the launch an award show for rap music, empty visas, to drain, is Co. Host S. Lover were obvious choices to M C major. In were worried. They thought bringing together puppies bad boy, crew and shakes death row. Stable, might lead to trouble The one thing that at an I made very clear as I
put us in the middle of some war of words. That's not gonna, be good. The source awards took place on August third, nineteen. Ninety five at the pair Theatre in New York's Madison Square Garden. The idea to give real hip hop some love the Grammy's mostly given awards to pop a novelty wrappers like empty hammer, so excellent and the fresh prince the source awards we're going to celebrate the music and hip hop fans respected, and they do it. Front of a national audience. It was a disaster. The heavy New York EAST Coast Crown. It really was people from all different walks, but it was majority people from the EAST coast and they took offence to certain groups
people from the EAST coast, were taking offence to the wrappers from out West. That was finally should night. He hadn't come to make nice. We end niggers own roof like we had a team. I daresay I remember them common in the hallway. The mountains began bagful guns issue: that's Danny Steward an army singer known as Danny boy. He was sixteen years old and ninety ninety five and use being groomed is death throes next star. Should it become his legal guardian to get this began. Duffel bag, full analysis in nearby reached for the south and buckled reads will want to see like, let me say, a male two doors. We could mean a guide us, but what we can do unanimous threats were had been given in you know, The tension Danny Boyish should set near the front
The ceremony opened with a ten minute medley of death. Throes hits The stage was said to look like a prison cell block. One after another. The labels artists emerge doktor drain. The dog make dog snoop, it was a serious likes, a definite star power, my wife, my my camera, but there was more to pocket finally agreed to sign with death But he couldn't joint shoguns stage. He was there and twenty miles north of Madison Square Garden in a prison cell instead of the real Tupac death row, had a cardboard cut out made and they put that on stage with drain snoop. No, noticed here's Reggie right death rose had a security. I was hoping Multi quite human, the cage I know well supported, put net there. You know how to get there, but that that was the big announcement
I will begin by innumerable recognised or noticed TAT the day I Nobody had ever thought about. A booby is so that big reveal fell flat, wish That got up one stage. He said the clear message I'd like to tell to back to keep his guards were: riding waiting. Right, but it was something else should said that really got to audiences attention. A shoddy ticket puff in bad boy records anywhere that they want. To be honest, I want to stay a star. Don't want to. The robot deserted this. It's gonna be the video on the record. Shoot taking on too Pox viewed as his own in the most public way imaginable. The New York responded to shows provocation by booing loudly and relentlessly?
just what Andre Brown and Ed Lover had been afraid of right. After goodnight made their comment. First ass, it is get the car ready, It is our duty and our going there will be no real plans off my ways. Gateways get nothing scorned, aback, scar run it. The drivers red right, ok, look I want to read about the incident. I don't wanna be a part of the incident with death, throes, Doktor Dray came on they have to accept the award for producer the year, the crowd boot again, snoops MIKE away from trade to confront audience way. The package No ain't, gonna love for that the jury snow yeah yeah. Let it be known will give up hope we know you're a girl. You know what a pub we're puffy tried to calm things down,
for presenting snoop with the award for solo artist the year he implored the too close to come, Neither is one not separated at all if ie unless I need to stop so give it up and everybody from the east and the west at one tonight one, the audience plant politely was new came one. Dates to accept his award. Puffy made appointed, bring him a hug. Puffy also seem to be. Everything should accused him of being an insatiable narcissist and a producer, wanted to be the star to kick off a medley of bad boy performances. He stood on the podium at the centre of the stage head bowed. In prayer is clear: of his monologue? Puffy fanciful So the bad boy death row conflict. He said I live in the east. And I'm gonna die eyes. Despite everyone's fears,
no violence at the source awards or any other after parties that came the next month or neutral territory, sugar, puppies entourages cross pass at a club in Atlanta at a birthday party for the wrapper and producer germane to pre six crew included Jai Hassan Jamal Roadless, a two hundred and forty pounds Form a gang member noted, his friends is big. Jake should Lecter with blood from his own neighborhood in Compton any often tried to help them out with jobs. Big Jake was a tough guy, He wouldn't have been around otherwise but Reggie Right said he was also committed to building a real career in the music industry. Was the only one in the home is that was really trying, These working hand in hand with me to learn the business in the b. He will be the one that at the office, nine ale in at all for Georgia And you know what is it
We all desire on the work of five or six at their Party in Atlanta, the death row in bad boy. Entourages were feuding all night event. The dispute spilled outside of the club is big, Jake, robe less was getting into a lemme. Someone ran up and shot him with the semi automatic. He was hit multiple I was in his abdomen. Standing over his wounded friend should tell puffy. I think you had something to do with this. Robust died from his injuries two weeks later. No one as ever charged him, any boy again that was really being. I wasn't there, but I think was a big hurt but death row. That was One of the first people from death row that We lost too late that, and you can see should even dealing with the stress of it.
You know have in his home me out on a roll wooden, nodded to return to allay logic in a box. Now it was no longer about record cells or regional respect, it was about who shot to pack acquired studios. This was a blood speed between shaken puffy soon after big Jake die, should wire to one point. Four million dollar bond to the New York Court of Appeals summit money, came from inner scope and time Warner. Veni charted a private jet upstate New York when he landed he got in a rented white limousine and headed to the prison gates, a short while later Tupac was free pending appeal of his convictions for sexual abuse. There's a photo of to pocket might have been taken. On that day standing his friend, big psych,
Block is wearing a white sweater and baggy great genes with a white cap perch backward on his head He smiling wide and pointing at the limo You can tell he was so happy to be out of data more day. Boy was part of the group that went to get Tupac and bring them to California. Then we went back to allay on his way here from the airport he's smoking. Having a ball and we get to the back of the studio. They call the package at the back door video he get out of the car and he walked by five feet away from the door based first to the ground past but it's not a mile corn water over MRS Lucas look aware at the king, at drug to mutter smoke too much but wants to back into the recording studio. Tis focus was sharp
Danny Boy, says to part rarely left over the next few weeks To see tat light turn all of his working too soon like immediately after that, like you, sleep, are coming back door. The times it. I've seen him like leave out and when he left out. But he came right back, Tupac had gone to prison a year earlier now a career rebuild money to make and scores with biggie and puffy he was ready to go to war, next week on slow burn box. Other nemesis,
A sixty six, zero civil rights activist, slow burn is a production, a slight plus slates membership program. You guess four slate plus two here bonus episode of the showed this week in every week. This season this Weeks, bonus episode, you hear me but the rise of biggie in an extended interview with Mattie see the right the unsigned hype column in the source he tells them. Good stories about working with began puffy any talks about what it was like to be it. The quad studios the night to pack up shot to hear it signed up for slate placid slate, dotcom, slash, slow burn. Slow burn is produced by me and Christopher Johnson with editorial direction by just Levine and Gabriel Ross Sophie Summer that is our researcher. Mix engineers are Jarrad, Paul and Paul. Elsie downward
composed our theme song, the art four slow burn us by LISA, Larsson Walker, specialty, Stu slaves, child to their Johnson Katy Rayford low in lieu Alison in addition, in Jericho and by the way created a playlist on Spotify to go with this season will Have they d get each week with new episodes and songs about Tupac Biggie in their collaborators check it out every Add the lincoln the shown it thanks for listener. Peace.
Transcript generated on 2020-07-21.