Five scuba divers conduct a search of Holmes Lake.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a CBC podcast. The following programme contains mature subject matter. You're, listening someone knows something from CBC Radio in nineteen. Seventy two five year old, Adrian Mc Norton, vanished while on a fishing trip in Eastern Ontario Document area. David region goes back to the small town. He grew up in searching for answers. The sound of Spring papers. In April there here at homes, lake in the newly thawed pond, in a few, hours, a dive to look for human remains, will start but the rest of the natural
World is carrying on with other things to do I really wish for us. It was that simple, as regards date, I don't know I'm sorry was alive. Maybe that's been wishful thinking and I dont know what to think and these guys are going to do their best they're, going to search through the area right and left in the quadrant your second today the item waters fairly clear so start at eight hundred and thirty that we're going to meet up there at eight hundred and thirty.
These are all remote possibility. So let us take it as a counter David, I hope they find something. Just like to know one way or the other, whether instead early the next morning at homes Lake, so we'll just bring the boat into the water, and I think we'll just let the divers deal with the boat and the canoe I'll, take over after myself to the site, Definitely older with the wind blowing off homes lake, it feels about zero degrees. As our record, an aluminum boat, yellow canoe being dragged off a trailer,
but the sun's out and temperature slowly rising and might grumbler and his team for other divers have begun to arrive Hydro, unlike obviously the ice is gone. My hands are freezing Cathy, Cathy nice to meet you nice to meet. You got on David nice to meet you again. That's that's all of us who sit waiting week. Beginning rigour. Three and a woman will get together and will go through a briefing together with all trained volunteers, all ready to go Christmas morning, very Canada. Maybe you can just name yourselves again, Scott. We were Happy Simons Ranger, mainly my grumbler from midnight,
Sean magnetic unto homes like first and thankfully lit a fire. He seems to have the most gear and drove five hours to get here from Hamilton Scott. Right last and comes from Montreal and Cathy is as boisterous and charity as been is quiet and smiles, through their manner and easy kindnesses with each other is plain to see. They ve worked closely together before and that that work has been, I suspect, in no way draining it's kind of hard to find volunteers. To give me a sort of I'm so might spend. For twenty years now, I've been out for ten eleven Bannon, Cathy I've been around years, and these are core crew that have basically showed up again and again and again we have people try at once or twice in time
yeah. We never see them again and I can't blame them been together for partly for the last seven years or so so it was one to start working Kim and her group, and so every leaf summers legal twice in the Saint Lawrence and help them trainer dunks on the water MIKE gathers everyone around the tailgate of his black pick up the probability of us finding him are pretty. Women has been fully to your soul, How do we define successful yourselves in the best way We can do that. I say again the five understand for an Kim and on her. Say we did a good job doing this so that, if we're not Well, then, you can take whatever steps which needs to do too. Search again there are removed, We really don't know what shape they'll be in total colleges, friends of the suggestion, was yeah they're, probably no soft tissue, but you never know
If we do fine, clothing or shoes, be careful not disturbing, too much cause it might actually. Contain small bone, fragments or anything mostly leaving defined with to recognise would be scholar, long bones skull, probably rough we talking. Or five inches. Long bones thing on the order of twenty centimetres Fergus Elvis actually pathologist said pelvis, we probably won't find anything recognisable because the pelvis is actually five separate bones actually aren't fully fuse till you, young adults do so. Unless you really know you're human anatomy, they might be individual for visas and Kim Cooper. I'm with her dogs morning they'll be staying in the truck, so
during the car. He I think, go crazy watch neighbours, Berkeley they'd, be nothing but a pain in the bud yeah they go crazy, meaning they jump in the water and stir up sailed from the bottom. As the crew begins to hump their hundred pounds. Scuba tags dry suits rope iron apples and other equipment through the rocky Forest toward the data point the place where the four cadaver dogs made their indications I slipped the canoe in the water at the south end of the lake, it's my first and last of calm lowness on this day, and I paddle northward slower than I really should they followed up on the shore near the rock where the dogs stood the place where the diver start my mind turns to what
just been paddling over could Adrian either I mind David commanded. Somehow, despite its remoteness, homes league has great cellphone reception, hello, yeah buried Ok, ok, greet all ok, I think shown tone Gregor unjust. We they wanted their dad to go where companies are now confront were gone. Maybe I'll Fisher level there fell, he won the truck, so he could come whenever
yeah, ok! Well, that's good thanks. Recalling I'll see him here in about an hour, and I think I shall tell him Gregor coming up the road. Great now, maybe ok great saw, let you know has a day. Progress is how things ago and if you want and secondary like here, if they find me now, on my way back through the woods to pick up more gear. I need Chantelle Mcnerney and her brother Gregg, both bundled up for the cold. When you get here that number. So what are your expectations? Gregg? I dont really have any honestly I'm just curious more than anything whatever?
one way or the other of the first day. The Friday so we missed the spot of a lake yeah. We didn't come here. We didn't come with the dogs to the spot, careful There we kind of veered off right there, I think, possibly, because of that stream. I remember we didn't go under this law, I think they went in there. He went right through their that have come in this way. Then I see an older man with a came through the trees in the distance. He's hobbling near the shoreline staring out mouth open and big glasses it. TAT Patterson the original Ontario provincial Police Dive Master, who says he searched this leg, two or three times over a two week period in the wake of Adrian disappearance. More than forty years ago, Aristotle
good logic. Bigots, that's a site. Where does the place where we're gonna start our die from over there and the great can you get over there. Why take so much for coming to family members over there. Now you shall tell yeah yeah so There's a certain upper align out with the canoe arena. You remember the lake very well, no it's been forty years has even in here you can remember every nook and can I guess where These two things are coming in with real shortens. I leave past Chantelle and Gregg at the dives, and head in the other direction working my way back to where the remainder of my equipment is I spy Murray MC not just getting out of his battered truck
arriving alone, he's bundled up like a hunter with an ear, flap hat and his vehicle doesn't look any emptier since last time I saw it what's happening. While the starting to move the dive equipment in and up to the point where the dogs were cool up here made. It there is right there and then yet another person we ve met before strides toward us as if on cue, Donnie ring it's the first time. These two seen each other in over two years, sure, you're gonna tell me you're gonna came. It was big but how are you aware that is not true not too good, but still alive.
I went up to the fair in the lake instead of drop their formidable that I got you're both right here. Can you guys come over to the fireplace here and just want to This is it. This is the site here, you short steps away. The site where Adrian was last seen there were changed Yeah memory come in here you couldn't get through here with something like you had to turn sideways to get to little branches and trees. So at the time. I was a lot, moreover, built here all coming, that rail there you had an over the trail was a wooden leg. I heard Murray, telling the young woman, Sudan, he's gonna get tangled. I went from there if you look through. You can see
two trees gone up. None they fork out. That's like every other. Fifty feet away yeah, but it was really hard to get too. I wouldn't let the kids come with me because it was really dirty failing and ordinary but I won over there and I was fishing there and I caught her throat writer that they use. We are afraid. Over there I heard Marie shouting. To the outcome of the young, I was in the care, so you far away than you? I mean that year disarray there than fifty feet away them. Fifty vigour, maybe so this is the spot here Murray was here with me, and he told me what happened here, but you told me your story at your house and I kind of had a picture in my head. I what from because you said that you went fishing, it took some of the kids in another direction. Ever
and stony told me his story of that fateful day on his back porch with those chickadees chirping and especially since the four cadaver dogs found a cent further up the lake. I have long wanted to hear the answer to this. Question to see if it fit with the narrative. I've been arranging in my head about the day. Adrian disappeared. You can see the wrong way to the parent less. Kids and I were. We're going all the way up here. You remember that You don't remember. Coming down, there was making they'll learn, therewith may all memory. You realise that the rock your point, Here is where we're diving from gas. that rock. It's the same point
a stony took Adrian and siblings. Shortly before Adrian disappeared, that rock is the same place. The dogs alerted to us and out on the water, the same water. We are searching today Hurry has always suggested his feeling that Adrian went to the left when he disappeared in the direction of that rock Would Adrian have gone back to the same place? He had just been with Donnie the very place now buzzing with activity in preparation for a dive before That's all happen, though. You were over this rocky point. Right over there were those got. The divers are standing here. You go up on top there. Many Dutch, where I was with the kids well actually, we would have lower because it's pretty hard division of that rock with married. You think you can make it Where are those divers are over thirty year the awhile,
we'll do shovel along we'll get there you're worth you're Together, we walked slowly over the rough path toward the dive site. I feel like Marion Danny must have both been changed by that date. Back in June nineteen, seventy two, guys both experience, this horrible tragedy you guys went through together. Did you keep in touch after that you to her? We're affordably support. That's all I get a couple years, often for shared coming back I know you said you weren't a pair covered boots on the search right. You were here every day for the search right. We'll go labelled. This isn't my heel, but I kept warm. What did you do? It don't give up.
I had through the woods at the dive cite the crew is busy prepare or what will be a very full day, We have a line that goes out onto us onto a boy, diverting go in all the wind down until he reaches the anchor The anchor you'll have to place it on the just put on that, but gold line, and then your search were thrown open to any suggestions back on the trail. I'm almost Dive site with Danny and Murray the choice you to walk through here now compared to what it used to be You took the kids up. Here was a little rougher. Yes like we're standing. Now you probably
be able to see the rocks over there for wages came from right or you wouldn't be able to see that at all. I'm sure you wouldn't how long efficient were to say over here with the kids Navy, half an hour maximum. We fish, oil and no look so result it will be a mother Murray Austria yeah she used to be through here today her hands here about. So you talk, show me the place where the official them I wanna hear drew them right down there on that rock at that cedar tree One of them would have been here right at this rock Donnie points to the exact spot, where the four dogs indicated a spot. He has not been privilege, goosebumps rise on. My arms is there more than a coincidence here.
As the divers prepare getting their dry suits on for their first entry, I leave Diana and Mary was Chantelle an Gregg and seek him coup. Sitting alone on the high ground, leaning against a log reading a book so Donnie Ring was here on the day. Ok, and he just told me that this is the place where he brought them. Fetchingly. It's crazy, pointed to the spot and said, For those divers, our deep down. I don't think find anything today, but I don't think that's a technical issue. I don't think that's a the question of there being something here are not what there is to be found. As is, can we smaller impossible to discern or maybe under the Celts, for dogs, No for knowledge of what they were walking into. The more we ve talked and gone back and forth over what the doors behaviour is and the more the dog loser of one mind to say there really is no good explanation, but
There is an odour here of human decamp. It sounds more possible coming from you now than that because I think you wanna be careful, then yeah, you always want. We care I'm not raise hopes and expectations. You amongst ourselves, we might have one conversation without outside In that conversation with a completely different things. The lasting one is to raise, raise hopes for a family, ANA women, a prayer, that's just painful for a family, and then the meeting of the former dive master with the new dive master, Pat Patterson and my grumbler you like, I am often asked me to ignore me with the ISIS Go: no digital fear fairly, oh yeah, that's why I came for Thursday afternoon see if there's any ice Lafayette saw. The ice was gone away. Forty years I was just
into my son. There said you know, this is only half the size is tree boarding school, how things change rules As far as our orange buoy, but basically from here that were here in mind, we we come across a lot of Harry softened, she's, dead children bottom me and the forest shoot they had about ten men with its debts. They were very interested and they ask So why should that was in June that year and they said his are much fairer, weeds Europe? we should know very little, so they said. That's probably what's happened to her efficient enough vegetation. Leave change through the years after forty issued by hits it bids. Would it
who did Sean and company in the water here and don't come back and tell us as MIKE, prepares his divers. I know that Gregg has quietly assume the role of fire tender and Chantelle is helping him walking through the forest edge, in fact, the flames with armlets of wood and keeping it still. Settling into a useful distraction for them and an important source of warmth for everyone else, God, almost ready for the water and Sean will follow shortly. So what's the strategy like We deplore. A white former line, one sidedly to the other and its That's no sank to the bottom and then. I gave him a line here, which is,
attached to an anchor, was up through a breather. Five was ready to die Let's do this two at a time just getting started, and we'll see we're going get into first, for this approaches is painfully slow, but its deliberate. And it helps us ensure that we see at least every section of bomb. At least once most of it was twice divers, scar makers, water and once Sean joints and all you can hear on the site. It's crackling of the fire. Silent waves, tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, O Brien, as she attempts to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret.
The seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Rico and her family as they discuss their past. For the first time, what emerged was a much larger story. Here, silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast. So he's getting into position now. What does that mean? Thirty one interpreter, that's about three degrees celsius, but the big black dry suits that makes them look like members of an elite, Military squad can allow.
Stay in the water for hours. Plot of competition is very something we could finally going to cross sore holy shit. It's a foot of so I'm not sure that the visit source is better off to a surface search of the allied to follow. I came up with a loner hurry. We can. We can do that. We can do together. One line almost immediately signs that the day may not roll out as smoothly as planet had hope like trying to feel for stock. But basically earth. You're forty heard Europe die the smell our big shot in will come up with a sort of plan B. What was your visibility? A visibility was anxious
on the lake charging Mass of support, I believe that they just touch your head thoughtfully. A cloud, front. Helen Gregg are watching at all quietly from their fire keeper vantage point. The plan is to do at least this quad another, like you like all aware grasp how they're going to do it with the muck I want to get into a rhythm, they'll. Ok, I gotta figure out exactly what the system as yet yeah. What's wrong, we gotta Ferryman is. If we go under a log, you won't see it got no idea till you're stuck. Video lad, John Line to divers, seems to have lost a drop offs Steven Reign.
The woman is doing on shore walking suddenly was like underwater just right off the shorter They had to deter round spot because it logs knowing tat boy you're right. I got a couple of things like a pendulum thing. I stand here. You are caught up in locks. I should have got a better idea. We'll use one of your cleats went out that way when out this way and was just Criss Cross back and forth between the two lines. Having two tires close together with this visibility, it's just causing more trouble I'm paying more attention to being close to him than searching the thesis way to do it touched Ivan
I don't want a line and my hand rippling married with breaking up into small, It takes a while for a solution to come. Leaving a short day ahead to get a gigantic area examined, but once the let us decide the search. Once again in earnest the bottom, with only bubble, showing the path then surfacing when they hit the robes said along the side of the search area. Sometimes you go through those clouds and any other particles. That's all your eyes focus on the plea, nothing. I am also thinking those might be this party most want to search. Giving me ok, signed the onshore, spotter and descending again into the murder paragraph, twenty now it seems like a surgeon underway here
turn that into the water. Thirty fifty minutes to figure out different tactics, another dollar searching I think search is underway. Now there actually go and slow they go back and for how they figured it out now see anything they'll find out they come in on us, those guys are going to switch up. Would you check and male trap? You say- and I should be here soon over everyone, I'm waitin, not gonna, find out new ways of over be patient, Suddenly, On splashes up to the surface in a book of water and air he's?
spring and having trouble breathing MIKE and the others rushed to the shoreline to help him in a hurry to do a. U turn you understand what happened: I'm standing next to pack Patterson with free flown whether we evolved stuck yourself. I don't know swimming under logs under their don't even know it Barnes Valve had frozen open in the cold water and he'd shot out from a depth of twenty five feet lucky for him. There weren't any obstructions above him Or it could have been hung up without air, a very dangerous situation, but the divers are trained for this, and the site is soon com and quiet once again, as everyone weights and watches the divers bubbly trails Then an interesting land based development plan. Miss Hilary Johnstone and I'm a video journalists with CBC in Ottawa on the local side, a CBC report
learn arrives from Ottawa with a story. Oh two women- she met down at the highway. She said They were following her CBC Van. Soon, as I can old in off a highway. Big pickup truck came in behind me in to females got out had blonde hair and the other one had sort of darker and as soon as I got out of the vehicle- and I asked them if they were family members and they said no, but they knew why why we were here and they said that they were mediums lease. The one did, the blonde woman did and that says she's always had theories over the years ago. What what happened here and that their an area in particular about halfway between where we part in here where she felt we should check Mary, that's bunch. Iraq sets covered in firms she says over the years she's had visions about this. This area? The ferns she talked about coming at one time and as she walked away, she said
rose is all set in all kinds different thing. She said: she'd even brought like our rapporteur, one time up here and there with a male voice that told her to look near the firms they they captain, I'm certain area these women are talking about was covered by the cadaver dogs. We have the gps mapping of our track online shown and God or just emerging from the water Johns having trouble with sinuses. What did you see in there. Not much cans. Sardine cans, logs fishing line, visibility is pretty terrible. You get down, two about an inch away from the bottom, and the new a reasonable amount. I could see about a foot or two and either direction than Of course, there are spots where its two inches
literally, the visibility in the master circumstances seems to be pretty poor, so stir up the bottom sediment. Almost describe as Jello. The law on any you see a floor clinical up and down and move it up in. Our second visit really goes down zero any or pass certain point. I don't think you're fired thinkers. Editing would have settled below that mock. The best chance of doing searching is probably within the first fifteen, the shoreline looking under logs rocks might granular gets him to do just that coming ashore carefully around the tree, it's out of the door climbed out on July that the Jello not that they described earlier literally, stick my hand down past my shoulder and still not touch bottom of the sea
This is not a solid bottom there and it's all criss crossed with branches sure I'll get my my arm caught him literally can you see my life anymore, trees, crossed underwater like pick up, sticks gooey, deep endless bottom, I wonder, was the lake like this back and nineteen? Seventy two Pat Patterson said he said: the bottom about three feet off: he's leaning heavily on his cane by the fire. When you were in here. Did you see logs like this, like that a pretty well, let me say one with which some rip rap like that along the shore in places and where'd. You go like right. Under the law and with your house, in around them as best we could, your yeah sure, yeah sure, I can hear the tree in the water a finding like rather pulse,
from under a what is it it's an adult size, sock rotting in greenish and its, unlike, we Adrian, because it so intact, but I take it anyway. What, if I get a sock stone impressed him die founded. They added lying on a on a tree trunk on shore, and I couldn't even see it until someone pointed right at it in a minute just blended rate in it, sir, it's large too large to be Adrian's. And probably wouldn't have survived in the water anyway for forty four years, they wouldn't have served as a source of sent, thought the dogs know now. Through it all Murray and Danny sit on a log and talk fishing. Anything in there
think it's their way of coping with. Then this into a wild, worthy arab here, let me know when they start fresh. You forget, like MIKE, gets out of the water stood now. It should have a check the other. Like us and came and say what do you want to do? I'm pretty company with like the first twenty or thirty feet, out his far down, as we did searched for sure. That too, I would say for sure the twenty feet, I would say, he's gonna say they caveat on that. First one Feed is Also there there are spots in their where there are overhangs and small. And crannies that go further back than you can reach with an arm. Scott, even found one that local,
give may have gone in a couple of metres. Around the data rock, the area the where the dogs alerted summer. It isn't think some potentially fairly deep action crevices and if any of you then filled with the murderer, the accumulated vegetation. Mush becomes very difficult due to check whether is anything in there, definitely interesting it. There's some possum a holes. There is the problem we had with the dogs behaviour it from the Gatt GO, as was the science. If he's there, he should have floated, but if there is a possibility of getting into its cracks and crevices that could address the science side completely ridiculous. To couples like writing underneath I reached in it, whereas I could even lead to get traded unreal. There would be a good monotony of course, it's like then says assume is sitting region
just an avalanche of stuff covenants and there's this places where it through the trees, Criss crossed and I'm stick at my arm down as far as me shoulder, and I can't reach bottom- is impossible surgery well we're just debating what what the next course of action might be an spot. So the conditions and there's. We understand it or are pretty awful in terms of the probability of finding anything at all. You could the dog fourth area again sure we could work the shoreline again a day or two days after the divers have left the area. We could put the dogs on a boat out there in working out there, but The conditions for diving don't change their stolen to be just as terrible and the odds of sesar can be just as low If Adrian fell in here off these rocks, he could have gotten into big trouble very quickly, the crags and overhead.
Create structures under water that could catch and hold to say nothing of the lattice of tree fall. The science Is that a body would float but not if it was fully caught up and perhaps because of Adrian smaller stature, any gases generated. May not have been strong enough to lift him away from whatever may have been keeping him down. Can this happen without them we take up without it now Murray and Sean Tower, leaving follow them slowly, amble through the woods and then watch them head toward Murray's truck bantering back and forth. The light hearted in each other's presence, and I feel a lump suddenly appear in my throat, and I am glad that They have each other on this day. That's what are your final thoughts are married to you, a second why you never forgetting and give them credit for trial
it's a boost covertly, do it thoroughly and miss large box nuts? that's recuperation. Forty two years do probably could be covered up anyway. I guess it's you, find out one or the other, whether he's alive or he's. Not if he's alive, did he have a good happy healthy life, and if he's not alive was it just now is quick and it was just it just happened there's something else in South Africa, students right you that come with even finding it either outcomes creates more questions then Donnie ring comes to say goodbye will appear, don't mind if you find that I'll vehicle I'd appreciate that you never no way. I was going to turn up could be in here and you don't even know it all. That's true
I just saw done people in here. And I said there is indifferent. Divers in people do snorkeling a couple of divers, but the tanks in that They never found nothing less, they were already organised and then something occurs to me. A final question, did you come back here to look when you, when you did you come back to this spot and look or did you just look everywhere now, I didn't have to come back here with any wasn't here. Donny, explains later today, I always thought Adrian had gone the other way toward the car He shouted in the direction of the data point, but never personally went to look there. The knight of the disappearance, If this site the place where
dream came to fish before he went missing our dive sight had been search that evening in June nineteen. Seventy two would it have made any difference: on one hand, its profoundly disappointing that this dive was unable to find anything other than the sock, but on the other we learned about the lake, its top and more about a possible narrative that explains Adrian's disappearance and it does mean that human remains are not here. In fact, both my traveler and came Cooper believe If there is someone here and what that someone is Adrian or not will remain unknown, at least until the next possible phase of investigation. I'm going to talk to the Ontario provincial police to see what they think that phase could be.
I don't want to tie up some of the loose ends we ve introduced so far. It isn't over yet. it s k S. Listeners are he's in finale will be a few days later, as we're still gathering interviews following leads and trying to wrap up loose ends, Toby least on Thursday may twelve thanks for bearing with us Thank you to the CBC Reference Library for their help with research visits you see dossier, Slash S, K, s and click on this episode- to see a video of the dive in a report from the divers. Someone knows something is hosted, written and produced by David Region. This was also produced by Ashley Walter's Sandra Bartlett, an executive board? sir artists neuron, the music is by Bob Wiseman vocals by
Margaret O, Hara and Jes Reimer. I will never mine,
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.