The cadaver dogs continue their search for the scent of human remains in the Holmes Lake area.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a CBC podcast. The following. Graham contains adult language you're listening. Someone knows something from CBC radio. In nineteen. Seventy two five year old, Adrian MC not and vanished, while on a fishing trip in Eastern Ontario Documentarily David region goes back to the small town. He grew up in searching for answers its day to the cadaver dog search of your homes, lake near caliber, Guineas material,
Yesterday, we pander to the Bush for their gps is under amazing, sniffer dogs, but found nothing related to the disappearance of five year old Adrian, to her in force today, temperature hovering around five degrees. Driver early and I'm heading back to the push road to homes. Lake when I see a well used red tar paper, Shack the roadside, it's one of the. Hunt camps, scream dotted on the map, and I stopped to take a look. A little hunt camp here beside the road is the little red rapture building, counselor booby trapped calculate how much time I still not here.
The dog teens behind me call ahead and say that cover the hunt camp and area on the way. So I continue to the meeting place and start walking up the Bush road towards homes. Lake, like Chantelle MC, not the day before and like her. I feel the need to be alone with my thoughts in these woods. Many bird sing in December is they'd, be confused. But it's not long before I hear the familiar sound of Kim Coopers truck approach, boarding, I'm good good morning disorder, the other guys, goodwill yet they gotta the cabins points which, while we wait for Pauline and her dog Quinn, that's the new team joining us today to arrive from the hunt cabin falling, came and decide on the order of events for the morning. If you wanted to start going reign, the Lex there they probably won't take off, yet they click good
Yesterday's gps tracks reveal that we, MR segment of the land between homes, lake and centre, like being everyday right negation. May GPS Zaga take much actually from what we did yesterday We cuts through there and we ve got a covered off which dog so we'll cover that off before moving on to any of the other areas This can steer us right into the holes from yesterday criminal back into the Bush with grief. The younger male dog gnashing gotten waken the spine we walk along the rugged shore line of homes like much closer to the water than yesterday and into the area we did not cover. So I was legible. This end of lake wishes to dance know anyone walkers actually clearer than the others. It's that
over there, where he was last seen actually destroy. We all want a year to the next and then the dog later at the water. You can send interested small believe the longer we. Like him, I see more fulfilled the prophecy all, but it did seem very attentively grief clearly, at least to my untrained eyes, made changes in his body posture. Walk down to the shore line, stood on a rock and looked out sniffing toward the lake, supremely quiet at attention and still concentrating.
What's with the drinking and service that like trying to get more sent into his nose, desperate state that you want noticed, he doesn't swim. Thank yous biting the lotteries tasting, so they making looking at the water biting at the water, is a way of trying to pick up some more of what data. So do you You make anything about, or is it just kind of, certainly been indicate cases on half a couple times, moving forward certain rate of speed and involve suddenly hooks back on himself This seemed to be kind of going back. Well, now, not given the hook back, he's just running now, so sudden, jerk
yeah removing certain direction than for no apparent reason they change direction. It is just a hooker suddenly hook now that could be that there's a dead raccoon in there and they're gonna put back as is different, but they're, not gonna. Tell us who Shatner you're, just gonna go back out of sheer curiosity, so any number of things can make the dog back on itself, but Yeah. That's why I said it's nice to have a second dog and see if we get somewhere behavior change up. There was a second dog out of the dogs. Know: human bone ya know enough about it from me to absolutely answer that question, but deference against apologists are certainly studying the odor of decomposition,
there is a definite difference between animal owners and human odors. There's some five hundred chemicals that are involved overall and there's a small set of of maybe maybe ten or fifteen that are uniquely human haven't. We certainly know through training we put out or are human bombs are trading AIDS and the dogs will burn right past Dearborn, piety bone, any other bone pay, no attention to with the letter and ends in writing. The human body only so so they know there's a difference they can. They can tell, I guess, easy to believe the narrative. You want reverses the truth here in Greece, Actions are different here and it's the first time in the two days. He is act in this way that we have seen, but what These actions really mean he specifically trained to react to the smell of human decay only, but under
water. Luckily we have two other dogs here and we can bring them in the same situation to see what they think back at the cars we meet Pauline, who has arrived with her dog, the beautiful and very personal Quinn, and Dmitri figure elbow necessity or something interesting moment. Just each other became tells Pauline about Griefs findings, Kim's cautious by nature, and rightly careful not to over blow anything each other behavior change by this lake. Just just enough looked into the lake a couple times you didn't indicator in Gaza, others print brings up and that we can go forward to maximize. Our time together, Pauline and Queen, or detailed, to search out the Bush road coming in from the Caliph bogey side to see if they can locate any remains, a folder hunt camps, their search of the cap. I found on the way in turned up nothing, meanwhile, human eye
freeze the more experienced female dog back. The way at this point, it's one dog, almost nothing a whisper of something nameless. But still everyone wants confirmation. At a small change in behaviour from my other dog close to the lake shore, so we're just gonna bring a second dog up and see if we get again a change in behaviour from a second dog we too, two dogs showing change, starts to become more interesting, maybe there's something that needs to be looked at here, but test. This is definitely less than than a perfect scenario to coming on the search for two years afterwards. How do we approach the area where grief made his actions once again, chemists, very care, I'll, not lead breeze into any kind of expected behaviour.
Following behind her evenly continuing to move ever watchful, the dogs, every action Burke where you work were standing still here. So she's going. Why you? What do you want with it with some voice of working at one of you to go? So it looks like a strong positive. We don't know the dog she she likes to work like your boss.
I would say we have some subtle silencer, much as it looks dramatic the actual body language of sniffing respectively subtle. So I consider to be the better dog the two here. To get more body language, so she did and we spent a lot of time standing still here. So what do I know? I know I'd like to have a look at the lake. I know I'd like to bring the third dog din and I know I'd probably even bring her back in a couple hours from now to me. It seem like it wasn't just standing here. She actually look exactly direction. It something I want to look at closer portion young. This limitation we haven't water is. This is as much as we can do with a dog short of getting a boat and going on on the water vote, but if you're gonna make that effort, you might want to strengthen divers up another. Now two dogs have made intriguing actions at the same spot.
The accuracy of cadaver dogs, according to my research, at least on land, even with remains, many feet underground is in the ninety percent island up, but while some of the exactions point to the shoreline area here Many more of them point towards the water, the water of homes, lake there is president such as in this early well, publicized account from priest like Idaho, with dogs, detecting a body fifteen to twenty years after death and three hundred and fifty feet of water all the handlers, I've spoken to agree. The dogs under the right conditions concerning molecules of decay from remains under bodies of water, when we get back to that rocks. We have to wait for Polly inclined to return from the run down to the old hunt camp areas, so Kim
sites to show me something she reaches into the back of her trucks and pulls out what looks like a small orange plastic cooler rates already set out a bit of a motivational prom for the dog. Didn't go in a couple of days without finding anything is just give them a chance to actually earned the ball, but they ve been desperately seeking just get. My safety gloves on there is clearly aware of what's happening, is getting excited just going to my had ever box here in plenary, vertebrae crimson, to show me how the dogs react to real human bones believe it or not? can order it online phones can be bought through the internet.
Other materials we can obtain legally, like things like placenta, were or m groundwork. If someone is as died not been discovered for several days, the ground will be saturated with others that we can use. So where there's nothing feet, there's no hands and her could ever boxes there's nothing that can be identified holding. So I gotta vertebrae, single human vertebrae, new and think of all out of order on this, but then there's plenty, a dog have no trouble picking up on this. One vermin go: stick this out in the woods and then we'll come back. Let the dog have a go and have a chance to earn his reward the hard that is to say so if without finds it,
Let me, finally, because he smells and sees it the dogs they they soon be finding a man, don't know where it is and I'd say, leave two hundred metres away from where they are and truck outbreak, king in a zigzag pattern. Free finds the human vertebrae with in probably fifteen seconds all by using his nose. It's amazing to behold calling and queen have arrived back so we're anxious to see what Quinn makes up the area. The other two dogs have been interested in This will just we'll just follow. You won't tell you anything but to do it in and if you get enough,
I mean, on the way back to Sir say, maybe check this area a little more closely and see if that we dont tell Pauline where on the lake, to look, and obviously Quinn has no, why We follow along silently behind them and watch not quite a double blind test was close as we can get with neither party knowing where the site is so we're just gonna have there. Pauline, have a check of the young, the shores of the lake. Here we ve had some behavior change from two dogs, but do not there far from definitive, so we're gonna have her have a check. She has no clue where dogs had behaviour changes. So this is a totally honest of new with a third dog revolver
I'd love doesn't overcoming. What did you see him? Do sniffing will rapidly. At the same time, in his ranging taken that will change the character. You told them one whose very receptor dogs, through identical reactions in exactly the same place. Silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, o Brien ass. She had
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gin down towards the water and he's more concentrated in that area. Is soldiers Parson personal, obvious area this and for free? and grief guy on one rock the same rock and stood facing straight out into the water. We heard it is hard core and now were certainly less hesitant and our excitement then queen actually barks calling when she was looking at him, in other words, clearly a voluntary far something the dogs do. When indicating tell me about the indication of what happened, he narrow it down tables bomb, we came back, not acid, and that's a bark ya hear me about you. Can trust Just make some accessible, don't make sense for three years later story,
Lastly, a hundred meters away he's five years older. We want no more but it doesn't look like a deep leg and should warm up really quite nicely in summer time, which means it should turn over things should from other parts of it make a lot of sense. It's very simple explanation for what happened, but the science of it is very questionable. The science of human bodies and water is that over time, national decay leads to the production of gas which lists the body to the surface. After rising, the body can then drift but often releases the gas and then sinks to the bottom for good
Adrian did fall into the lake. Was his body too small to generate enough gas to rise to the top, and if he did surface, would it have been during the time of the search. A shallow lake like this one might make surfacing more likely just more unknown to add to our day s same rock Esther off again a case that standing still freeze indicated creeping indicate that fifteen feet, but something's happening here. Some summons know exactly what we were talking about this area of the dogs. Are they indicating because of assent, although they are telling us, is that they are at detecting and order here
where were the coming was coming on? The wind? That's that's all we know is the oder right, there's a fifty feet out as it across the lake we don't know. This is as far as they can go in and swimming. So they say at this spot. There's enough odor present paraded say that you're, probably interested in this work in some scenarios, were someone's been buried for four weeks and in some of those indicate hundred metres away from where the person's actually buried but their adamant that this is where the odorless so where the oder is and where the person sometimes on the same place, what's goin on here so enticing an interesting and intriguing. His hope has made the sun like say something's, going on here It's all fascinating and kindness chilling. Somehow each of the three dogs student Zack here the same rock
in the same direction and gave a quietly dramatic, sniffing pause to of the dogs, taste smelled, the water it's interesting. At the same time, it is far from the definitive and far from clear, MR tapping, but then again we ve never worked a forty three year old case before so we got no frame of reference. What do I tell the family? Are the dogs accurate for their bones here are they Adrian's boundaries? We know no until we find them if we do, but I will eventually have to tell them something Cut had another week and I'm back at home, like again with yet another cadaver dog named Zapper and Zappa's handler Susan,
whose driven here from Linsey Ontario I am with the Georgian Bay Search and rescue, but I live just outside of Susan's schoolteacher most of the time, but like Kim Cooper is passionate about certain rescue. Choose your whole life. If not training, then near training with Susan and Zapata. Here now I'll have had access to the best trained, amateur cadaver dogs and handlers in Ontario. So tell me about your dogs, epoch Zapper is two and a half years old, soon to be three mile and one male, he is he's a guph, but he is high DR good focus. Not as intensive I'd like him to be, but he knows how to turn it on when it's when it's time to work,
we strike out on the same path is a dream and his family and forty three years later, the three cadaver dogs who indicated further up the lake Sue has no idea where we were and has never been like. The fourth zapper is the fourth cadaver dog, If I had two way during guess, I would say this: I see where the other dogs, yet totally yeah yeah I noticed several his hind legs pine tree trunks and smelling upwards. So I can see is climbing the trees here and that's where he was getting the strongest now. Is he certainly not indicating he's just a learning to me. If there's something blowing off the water, it could get all caught up here. Apparently, trees can actually catchers moves. Collecting molecules have said that may becoming
the water as moves along. He takes a keen interest in the shoreline area adjacent to the indication spot. The other dogs also showed interest in this area, but zapping extra interested. Frozen onto a log overhang from water and smells out all the dogs. Frustration as if they're not quite able to figure out the sourcing, the assent ahead of them in all cases out towards the water. Well, we certainly have a change in body language of at that first spot that I said you could see an interest but this one absolutely he would like to have investigated at war to me, Did he crawled out onto that? That down log tells me something good stuff, good stuff, my boy, We talked to get a boat out in that. Wouldn't it well
I should have brought my dive year. I do we call if you can do it with the dogs. How deep is this water, so for cadaver dogs have now made intriguing indications that the same spot and shoreline area? I need to find some divers with experience in this kind of thing
but, most importantly, I need to tell the family. That's the thing that kind of gives you goosebumps we're not just talking one dog we're not talking to dogs. Every single dog went into that scenario, and none of them knew what the previous dog had done. So for all for dogs. To hear on that, one shore line to me is is quite significant. This is what draws people like him and pollyanna myself to doing cadaver work. It spits families such as this. They deserve closure, and after forty three years, this poor family deserves to be able to put their little boy to rest,
it's a cold night an arm prior and the monotony family is gathered in front of me on their coaches Arbs inner motorized chair. They know something different is coming and, as I start to speak about the four cadaver dogs and the interest and a dive they draw closer together and to me sitting forward and silence with their mouths open, I try to tune the message to be accurate, but understated as possible. All it means is that we wanted to do some more checking. There's nothing confirmed. We don't know, there's very few cases where we have reports of dogs finding bones underwater, but there are publications huge per se. Fines are on land, far fewer proven on water. So this? If there is any findings, weather
these, are Adrian's remains or not, or if there are any thing would be precedent setting. So it's that's how little the chances are, but I do think it did. I think its significant enough that we should look with a divers, we can only if we find Adrian alive, that's great if we find that he's not we finally closure diamond anybody asked me, but I'm ok with that Taylor has something definitive. I dont want to be asked every day what's going on, and I think we all feel that way. I have great faith in God. Going to give me an answer before he takes me. It is, carried us through the whole thing This almost see, MRS all, these issues, movie. You know
almost seems like since then it has happened to us and the next episode of some one knows something. So the leg is just dead just down the road here, fifty meters our water near this is key colored. Reducing your visibility considerably. I could swim ass and not see you visit CBC dossier Slash S, K, ass and click on this Ex episode to find more information about how cadaver dogs work to listen from the beginning,
Go to sea BC, DOT, see a slash s, K S or download. The podcast from Itunes or your favorite at Someone knows something is hosted, written and produce by David region. The shows so produced by actually Walter's Sandra Bartlett, Steph, camp and exact. If producer out of neurons the music is by a wise men vocals by Mary. Good, o, Hara and just Reimer, I will never
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.