David speaks to people who knew Michael Lavoie as a child, as well as members of his family, including his mother, Pat Lavoie.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains graphic language listener. Discretion is advised you are listening to season. Two of someone know something from CBC Radio previously on s gay ass, the lady on the full must cry: should you? Nor can we meet our coffee Othello? Who is this path and then part tat is my mother. She cries shall I hope he flung him the desert and what was she like? Whoosh? What's? What's potluck fever? third, it plain he learned their dearest Michael. Can anybody here the aggressive Oh yeah early flight ob. Suffice
Michael Welfare. We found a powder paper, you could see that something had been written and there was a few things it suggested. It was suicide note, there's a thought that it was sent to a family member. This is episode ten. Mom either.
I've waited outside this house in a rental van with tinted windows for hours. It's late fall in my second day here, and I've waited because the person who lives here needed to be home when I knocked sometimes there's just one chance, and it has to be the right chance, At least that's what I told myself. I worked for secrecy radio David region and enough. You ve heard of me my card, I'm working on it. I commend to you. I think you can help me with a vote. Cheryl shepherd is there anyway? It's the right person, someone who's experiences with Cheryl Shepard, and Michael A and others in their orbit have led them to request anonymity and an obscured voice. CBC has allowed for this person, whom I'll call J P,
As with everybody, I speak to you for this investigation into Cheryl shoppers disappearance keep in mind, The speaker is their point of view, whether it's an animus, J P or Associative Cheryl, Sir Friend of Michaels, police officer or, of course me see I'm not. I understand that right outside any of them. I don't associated with them. My life has got a thousand times better or talk to drew p and our conversation that instantly becomes personal standing on the porch I was watching from the Van just a few moments before is a cool these on our backs and I soon find myself inside a kitchen table, etc. Dog and the house were alone J.
He is candid and sincere and soon turned to a criminal passed along record. Something J P is not happy about ass it properly related, that's it! I never look anybody in the eyes of their money. I was never a violent my fire. Less gets fires, droughts, just talk your stuff and hold it J P hung around on and off with Brian Sweeney and Michael a boy and undertook be unease or breakin enters with them, We should, however, involvement which he or she was here. Keepsakes gives what's up and down the road with a radio. You see a lawyer I've been on jobs with her where she brought centres.
And everybody was working together. Everybody had there were certain little crews, but in those days work together, but it was all they knew each other family this, why nobody would ever go and rattled. You know this is why so many on the Sabbath share. I can just imagine all of these people better, like now? What are they can find out about where you know- and I am thinking of the man with the fucking- time is passing my god. I can tell you I am the shit we used to do. According to court house, searches and statements by police Cheryl does not have a long criminal record. She was once arrested for having stolen property in her apartment, shoes and toiletries and clothing.
And she had undertake community service hours as a result, but, according to J P, Cheryl had knowledge of crimes that others committed. Could there be a connection between Charles participation in these robberies and her disappearance? If so, how so and would more than an person have knowledge of her disappearance as police suggested early on in my interviews, and when she got some money out of that too Oda district. Of course I like her, she said know at the time I am all she was Brian or she was with might, but you know I'm sure, everybody we get work. Did you ever hear, but share all doing sex work? What yeah I've had never saw myself
May I have heard that as a rumour restore dancer again that at the time that I was around them. No, she wasn't doing then. Surely thieving activities with this group would have started around the time she was with Brian Sweeney and onwards. Through her relationship with Michael, the boy I can remember back then stay on the outside, but I can remember: I remember when I get bogged up with her and then right was responding. About it rightly begun under us over. Do if I remember I can remember, Cheryl being around several times
very placing practice now to go very angry. She felt it or something like that. Like I made myself I don't remember having issues whether ever there was always good. That way. But I know that she had it out with people. She was like a sudden. Mister Travis, So I've done J, P, new sheriff, but New Michael avoid better so I move the conversation in that direction. I offer you getting like father growing up with me, Jpg,
grew up close to Michael a boy and the larger Lovejoy, blended family made up of four half and step siblings. J P says, we're about thirteen and all and refers to Michael avoid, as Mikey Almighty advice, a body to second Lhasa. By believe that we can get the lady what was mighty. That's for me, John Adams, very JP moves outside for some air, the stories J P else, from here onward about the person alleged to be
I call the voice dad John, whom J P calls Jack may be difficult for some listeners. The memories are stark and raw. Can we talk about anything? I don't need a satellite drown. You ve gone Dan L came into the bill. Being referred to here is build Dempsey, marked emphases, father and J Pieces bill was a kind man, but J P despises the man he claims
Michael Voice, Father Jack Jack? He was incredibly cruel. He was without any remorse whatsoever. This man, like a site, is buried up in Canada in just a few years back about some. According to do people the boy used to live with her family near Aurora, Ontario on a farm called good things farm can, I know what he did. It was a sexual stuff was absolutely Fatima. As you can imagine, and I don't really want to go there physically, it was just constant beatings. That's my memories of him. It's just constitute beatings. That's caused me,
so much issues myself. You don't know what to believe. You know you don't know a memory of back then. I remember myself, just how truly was I can remember getting beaten, funding called, hang back and belt and Mikey was he touched you think by the father. Now he was revered, he was pride and joy. He was you its second on us, like a dog gps, shrieking, almost imperceptibly breath, condensing like our foreign punctuation and the cold with every syllable of memory, None of these assaults can be confirmed, but J P says living in fear of Jack. Aberdeen Michael avoid was something that consumed much of GPS. Young life, so that you grew up
some sort of animosities unkind of her adolescent scale. At some point right, oh really, and since Cheryl Shepherd disappears from J Peace telling of it. The Laval family became much more. Fragmented and out of touch with each other talking rarely if ever about share or the fact that Michael of has been named. The prime suspect in her disappearance, Michael, has always maintained. He had nothing to do with sheriff. Disappearance at least every couple of months? I love you for anything lemme see it comments. You see, someone their Jerry The earth anniversary you might get something from the desert. I thought I check it up several times a year. I love to see anything new.
Like everybody else I on the other side, but what I will say had had. I, for example, did something to my boyfriend, and this was me is that him, my family would shut up less aware as this way then are and with that's the kitchen. Conversation closes and I returned to the van with tinted windows to sit for awhile the picture of how things may have
being between Cheryl and Michael, becomes easier to paint with each interview and J Peace commentary. If true helps, provide more depth about Cheryl and Michael J P says that Cheryl was scrappy, helps with Breakin Enderson. That Michael, was a bully. The allegations of abuse by Michael's Father are disturbing and heartbreaking, but do they mean anything with regard to the shepherd case? I need more and I need to get even closer to the people who knew Michael boy check check. I drive the van a few hundred kilometres down the road and park it in a lot Nero. Run down bar understanding over Steve, boys place. Hopefully steve- has something that you can add a story: civil war
Michael's eldest brother says, we're out, feel free to come back from the door, a higher absorbing. What's your daughter is Steve here. Ok Ok, I soon meet Steve's wife, she's, pleasant, brass tacks in mid fifties and I think she knows why I'm here before I even opened my mouth is disabled users. Sorry. Sorry, to hear that I didn't know that I have referred. Pvc radio, I'm here, I'm working on it I commend to you. I think you might be helped me with. Maybe I'm not sure so I just want to see feel talked me here. What's it lets it
It's about Cheryl Shepard, who went missing back and Hamilton in ninety eight, sometimes meet everybody in the whole sphere of her life that new her asked why now all of a sudden exists or its? Oh. Ok, that's good! I mean you know. Last name is low voice. Yet will that's why I will ask them how reactions will be just Gimme Jussac. If I wait for a few minutes, while Steve's wife disappears into a dark side room, there, I can hear low voices as one of Steve's daughters keeps me company. We talk about what kind of dark she has chosen should not a doctor.
No we're not fear to tread Brussels. He says he doesn't want upon it. Ok, not at all, not long ago, some cause, maybe some friction the family. To be quite honest with you, we don't talk to this. I was right, always wrong. That's it! So I guess we're members are mean. If Michael had said anything earth now lies. I don't Honestly, I don't believe you did anything by. I wasn't there we don't know too much about you know the police part of it he's not like the version that we also knew Cheryl version. I don't seem doing I that's just not tabled. I use its really just about finding a like. The hell happened right, and it will not surprise me if she was done so to be quite honest with you, then something people thought of the timer. I know quite a few of us did but everything, but that its MIKE it's mine,
and I don't see. Why do you think you never said anything, because I would just totally review release himself right like that. Well, I would say nothing. They tell you don't write I think that's what a lawyer would say for sure. So I know I was thinking. Is everybody has twisted Willie when all of it came out, it was all one sided. My guy. By now I think that go on I say you think she's just I know that she asked me once his eye was under twenty one. If my idea to get on the plane, okay, now you're going to Florida, they have punished, so you're, not my anywhere not taken that chance of any he'll come back. I don't know she shrugged me the wrong way. That's interesting never saw a sort of happy Cheryl every so often, but there were some.
While you don't mean that I would leave her with my kids What did you think of the marriage proposal? noble that until you are missing that's how much we talking like that. I hope you get me in our house tonight. You spoke rubber, notables angels. I saw level, and is he came to you to see you guys what time was it was like a round sergeant? I need a national that my job is not to indict somebody right, so it my job is to find that's. Why I'm going to everybody and trying to find ever actually like to speak to Pat too I don't know other she'd, say anything to make you'll get with an actual vessel. Really he, oh yeah, yeah. You know just ass off.
Russia's evildoers whistle in your ear for the anger, I know your card I can always collar. I don't feel safe, act to the Van and it's raining and overcast Stephen his ill, but I am hopeful he may agree to talk at some point in the future. He was associating with his brother, Michael back in the nineteen nineties and may yet have something. Important to add. I'm feeling a bit wipe so actually go into the bar on partner just to sit still for a second, but my phone starts ringing and it's the woman. I just talked to Stephen Le Voice partner on the line she says. Pat Lovejoy Michael's mother will speak too, and give me your phone number, so I collar
hello, yes, I've had established in calling I just gotta call back, so I was interested in coming up. I'm talking to you. Is there a good day yeah, I can do it on Monday or Thursday. Monday is good. I can do Monday. I could come up Monday, ok, then I continue the call I made to set up an in person interview with an interview, because one of my personal rules make use of your time. While you can, you may never hear from people again once you say goodbye. I am. I ordered that they set about like that they want nothing to do with that bunch, wheat yard. I mean it. I really need to someone like you. Did you not tell us what happened and a bright from their respective so
I tell you what I know you know. I don't know everything. Of course right that I can see things will betray the yeoman Cheryl, don't earth thing, you know. I can tell you that what I now everybody stone table them and if you did, you know she was a match for the plea sheriff yet no, I didn't. I didn't I've never heard that are here now I did something that was a very nice I retorted. Might my son in law protest, Ray I'm, not sure exactly which son in law Pat may be referring to hear it could be Brian who was in a relationship with pats, daughter, Tracy after he, insurance split and next thing. I know the please call me no might might call me instead the case it is called shale untold share. What I done.
So. There is no doubt in my mind that she was a snatch within ball over the teething that was going on. Right is passed, just in here that police were using Cheryl as some kind of informant related to the robberies I'll ask them about this. Calling share a snitch is odd, given that, according to the story, Pat started things off by alerting police to a theft by her son in law, she was involved. She rented a marker that all the stolen stop with put into It's all in her name rain now and then she reports them to the police, Pat saying here that sheriff rented the storage locker, where the group would still
for their stolen goods. She goes on to say later. That sheriff was also involved in the Selinger fencing of items that the group store. We returned to talking about the days and weeks following shares. This appearance that must went very stressful time for your wife must have been like. I believe we stress was right. It was, I was getting over cancer surgery at the time taken chemotherapy and you know it took it all along me. You know I lots of much weight. I couldn t sleep in your note. My my parents were in Florida and with earth. The police were going down the Florida looking for her. Could they additive let her going there. So I had to call my parents long distance and tell them you know just because therefore, I do know that under your door or what you know,
Lord a connection is something will be looking into right right now. You're must have been interviewed extensively by police of time. Oh yeah, big big long, I'm not an arm and a long. We were at the station. My daughter and I both went right, and I didn't know that I had rights that I didn't have to go. They put it to me that I had to come for this interview. I need they were so pushy with us. You know only too well it's been outside and taught the M unable to eke out a well man, and you know, then then they harassment, granddaughters to the point where they were having nightmares. Eastward kids, that was six and seven years old Peter, makes kids with when yet passed says that police were harsh, whistler voice, daughters. I asked on foregone, who conducted the interview
about this allegation, but he says the interviews were all video tapes and conducted according to his expertise and training in interviewing children. When two confirms that there was nothing to be concerned about regarding police treatment of her daughters back to Pat LE voice, I need those kids guarantee we care about nightmare way. They certainly have. I think, I'm on my understanding of the ethnic. What what they want is to show the targets for them now to write right me. They knew nothing they weren't beaten with, like they were with me right that night. So on January, second, when he went to pick them up, you brought them to you yet always brought into being
I will keep them sometimes overnight, sometimes just a couple hours, because I didn't see the mob than way somewhere advocates the union with a view to treat remembering saying anything about would have what's going on the show that NATO, where she was, he said she had to go dancing me. She would disturb her though he took her to the club, so she did Andrew and keen everything again, I'm interested in how Pat talks about this moment. This is her understanding that Michael, allegedly, was going to take. Shirl dancing were already had taken her and dropped her at the Concord. It seems a small point, but if we look more closely it isn't because it makes it.
Difference to the timing of the case, and also was this. What Michael actually told her? I hope that if I actually meet had in person- but I can push a deeper here- pat continues talking for the first time that I have heard about words. Cheryl is supposed to have spoken to Michael when he allegedly dropped her off. She told him he didn't have to pick her up. That Brian would be taken. Iran right, normal Brian Sweden would pick her up. Yes, ok, and that was hurried. She was gonna meet there. I I don't know known me right away. I didn't women wish meeting any
ok, so here pad, is drawing Brian Cheryl. Second husband into the mix on that native January. Second was Brian supposed to pictural up some time after Lovejoy allegedly dropped her off Niagara falls. Pats story. Cannot easily be verified and Brian really needs to step up and say what he knows. I will be trying to talk to Brian. Very soon, did you ever think about Brain Sweeney in after this? Does Europe think that he may have had some role to play in all? Yes, yes, I did because drying mother when she was alive. She said to my daughter right after this happened: brain was spent in the weekend with you what a knee jerk right with you right with you treat he kept saying.
No, keep watch it. I will not yield me and she kept interest in the rain. Was there right now, whether you want a treaty to lie and tell the police the brain with their because they suspected him? I don't know I dont know what our reasoning life again. Brian comes into the timeline. The obvious way to verify the story is to speak to Tracy or Dorothy. I have repeatedly reached out to Tracy with this and other questions, but for now she said she will not speak to me and unfortunately, Brien's mother Dorothy has passed away. So again, I need to talk to Brian, if Brian wasn't with Tracy Le Boy, where one
pat level, and I continue talking about that first fateful weekend of January. Ninety. Ninety eight there was some unknown friend. That was what the meter, but if prying was she knew him obviously does not unknown tremble right, interesting and then across the weekend MIKE Advocate, you took them back darted from you. I don't will feature here we took. Andy, which one one or the other way, but it was a normal thing for him to bring the kid you instead it taken to the apartment. Oh yeah, right I mean yes, they ended up go into the apartment after a visit without is, but They enjoyed stay with us, they put on my nightgowns in dress up, and they do. I hear and different mobile girly things right information in hand from Gwen indicates that level picked up his children on Saturday from Pats place.
Police say that at the time Pat said, Michael pick them up on Saturday, the third ten forty five Do you ever remember wondering yourself like what the hell MIKE did you do something that you give a remember, Can you deny we know either? I came it out and ask him and he did mom I've never ever lied to you. I didn't know. You have always told me the true whether each stall something or he had a fight he always owned up to anything right. I said I want the truth. Did you
but did you not hurt her mom? I never laid a hand on her right where you so I dropped it. Then I have to believe him right right, but you ass, you need to know to write like unless they are clashing with their right to move, because everything was so convinced that he did it to please right, even when he tried suicide rate I got to the hospital, they didn't even have the courtesy to call my daughter heard it on the news and called a top down. We went right. I forced me way into the room where he was and there's somebody with a microphone up to his face. Change can be my tell me, and I ordered him out. I sent you get I meet him alone is almost dead for crisis.
You know I was so angry net. I thought it was a noose person rate, and here it was a policeman He wrote me a letter and email them and I didn't get it until after he commanded the marginal and he I'm a very unhappy man mother. He said I'm sorry, but you should give my girls a kiss for me right. That's about all. He said what are you gonna know, China, where came in the mail rain interested in time. I got it though he was all right, Michael. Male the letter to Pat prior to during the storage locker. This act was deduced by detective Warren. Coral. It makes me wonder immediately what Michael might have been sorry about and if Pat still has the letter and did
Michael male different letters to others, but on the spot my gut keeps me from asking. If Pat still has hers, I think it's because if the letter is intact and turns out to be important evidence. I dont want to play a role in jeopardizing it. They wanted to keep them. Then I said I can take care of my home. It's like it's a good and put a month. Suicide watch a nice and now don't do that rate. He would go banana. The baby lot romantic age, Patsy, Is that Michael, wasn't in hospital very long before she got him out of there around six p m on January seventh, when he came home and then she was ever any I mean. Has it ever kind of stuck in the families in our psyche that
There is still no no kind of fingers of this kind of that's not going to talk about it anymore. No, they just don't talk about it right and my older than Steve said might wouldn't do anything like that month. I said I know right yet he had a temper winning, listen kid right. I mean who didn't you got it from me and I got it from my dad right, but you know he outgrew it. You know, and you keep in touch with my pretty regularly to sir yeah. He comes up here at least once a week if he is right to make sure everything up here we got groceries and we know get away from the very jack, and I was in hospital six months it all I get DR anymore. I can hardly see anymore going blind. What do you make of the american proposal could have a sort of a big public sang and everybody middle.
What to do with that was to make about? No one might told us today that that would put on so they can get on tv. They only get it so they could get on tv networks. Her idea, you wanna go on keen eye. He said sure why not? You know we're having a good time. Emily were both at loaded and not till. She said here and should give him a ring, bring out get down and she kept pretend to affirm our three. Never would a married her right. She was too, I don't know she just wasn't a nice person. Did Michael tell Pat the story. The wedding proposal was a lark and that he didn't really want to marry. Cheryl did Cheryl provide a ring. This is pats. Limbs were looking through to see. What's on the other side, for now back to Paris,
and I'm curious if she has anything positive to say about Cheryl. Silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old Raquel, o Brien ass. She had, comes to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret. The seven parts Greece includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Raquel and her family as they discuss their past. For the first time, what emerged was a much larger.
Story here, silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your PA casts were positive and negative attributes who desire you. You know what a good point was any kind they did have the kids together. She was so good to those girls. She got them what they like. She was closed them. She get their hair and she was a real good.
Person with those kids? I have to give her that she treated them like little queen right, but anybody else- oh, my god, you choose, fly off annual. If you just looked at her sideways, wouldn't even think attracted, my teacher said knight, I mean she was free with it with whoever with little know that I think that I really believe that all of us- you know you you know- that's like MIKE, actually spoke about this stuff right- would take a massive burden off like an asshole. Probably all you guys and his kid right
and I don't know you have the power to get him to talk. People can't force people to do anything, but now would be great. If all as I I guess I would, I would be delighted to come and talk to you and the term if MIKE wanted to come up with the US If not I mean I don't even know how to power, how you would even Roger within the ears mother, you probably know I'm going down to see a month. Andy, ok, so I'll talk to him alive, but I can't promise anything. Ok, ok, forget people need to stand up right in the eye and at the time- and this is this- is a good time all right. Well, that's that's interesting. Thanks very much want to keep you talkin tyres, you're insurance and the other.
Unexpected. So what time on Monday doesn't matter right? Ok, gonna come up nothing about it, I'm going with you my own other guy, with a beard, yeah, ok of the unemployed framework, but ok, forget it by the phone call from pad needs to be said, stood carefully. The different stories I'm hearing around Michael's timeline need to be accurate. It's so a more thorough and standing of what was going on at the time can emerge. I want to talk to detective Peter Tom about the letter that path says she received from her son Michael, avoid now did police ever ask pat level if she received us a letter from Michael College that he sent prior to going into the storage locker
Again? I know there's mentioned mother was concerned it. Perhaps he would have sent a letter for he was found in a locker. I'm sure she was actually asked that again it after go through file, something you know, I mean it's one of those things like the letter. More and Coral told me that he suspected letter had been sent to Pat and then I wondered if any formal request from Felice had ever gone too bad about this letter, because seems like it could have been. You know, if anything is a smoking gun, it's writ writing that somebody writes before they go and try to kill himself her before they go into the storage locker situation. You know he was intending to commit suicide and not all cases button a number of cases people one Leiva explaining why are seeing that revise recently dont have if there was a letter we do not have that later, is that something you'd be interested in
Absolutely if them with one exists. So I interviewed path and she confirmed that she received a letter and I asked her what it said, and she told me and in various kind of condensed and I didn't see the letter, but she said she had received it. So I'm not sure what it actually says. Cuz, I didn't see with my eyes, but she still hasn't. I don't know This is something that would either exonerate her son are implicated once my question the letter it fits still exists could indeed help to exonerate or implicate Michael a voice in the disappear. Of Cheryl Shepherd. So if it exists, I would hope that Pat might reveal it Tom confer later that police never asked Pat about a letter at the time of sheriff disappearance and theirs? mother, written material related to Pat, but in one
to examine more closely before it see here in person. Then you know when I had an anti at the had a house with her. She came over and I talked to her ask a question. I voted to dare to question answered them, or debt met with part in the aftermath of sheriff disappearance, on January twentieth. Ninety ninety eight, this would have been well after Michael's version of events. Was known to police and went out to the public The media and Odette kept written notes of that meeting. So this this is the information that makes mother gave you when you say that none of you, so you wrote this yes, yes, I lived there captivated carpet. Going through our debts, documentation of the meeting. I see that there is more More information about what Pat says Michael told her on the net
January. Second, nineteen. Ninety eight, here's! What our debts in one telling excerpt have mentioned to me that make went on genuine to second to pick up the girls and that he brought them to her house and asked his mother if she could baby sit the night because he wanted to take shelter, Niagara falls and danced to make extra money so that they can take the kids out for the weekend. And might when MIKE was there. It is moms. She asked him where Cheryl Way, a shell, he told her that she was at home. Sleeping had also told me that she is afraid that my will try again to take his life and that on gender six in the evening he found his parents and told them that he was going away for a while and that he loves them Oh, that's notes indicate that Michael Tool,
part, but surely was at the apartment sleeping and not already in Niagara falls when he dropped the children off the story about taking Cheryl to Niagara falls to dance, so she could make money to take. The kids are for the weekend, is another significant variation on a theme tie for my in person. Meeting with Pat You came here in a small town in there, sort of Central Ontario and I'm about to go interview. Pat Lovejoy interviewed her own phone seer purse. I'm walking toward a row of doors on a small red bricks, story, apartment plaques and going
my head as I near the door at the end of the simple concrete path, did pat talk to her Son ass, she promised will Michael, the boy be opening the door a little bill s eyes, TAT here, Bill Dempsey lives with past they ve been together almost four decades bill. Seventy five years old struggles to move has palsied face, shown vocal outbursts and may have said for the stroke beyond, I see Pat, whose sixty eight slowly making their way to a kitchen table with a Walker shorter, with a tough, no nonsense, exterior and harbours a terrible rumbling cough here's my heard affects.
A small dog named Katy Shit, Sue. That looks nearly identical to our debts. Muffy comes up to inspect me as I take a seat at the table. Evidently, Michael is not here. Are you disregard for thanks very much for doing this? What's dogma in Haiti whilst nosey? What what I'd like to know? If you can remember anything about the time that Cheryl disappeared, what the time was like back then for you as a family, because it must be stressed, offer you and it was for my always use people's party. My door browning suit. Building bang and all my door all hours of the night I didn't know somebody
breaking in what you know, and then I opened the door a bit love to Jane on and All we gotta talk, you gonna do any of you. So Iceland, the door rate, we had to finally put a note on the. Outside of my apartment door, no newsman get away. You know I mean I wasn't. Not very eyes about it. I just call them in no uncertain terms right, whenever there not well, we were already long based right, so you guys want for a while. You experienced this together. You went through this together and how long that last foresaw what she disappeared in weeks right. We begin us bugging s right, I mean I went to quote one to go to bingo and I go in there sitting on the car
did. They know which cars is rain. So tell me about what scope to that time around that Christmas Christmas Christmas. Ninety seven did you see Cheryl? Christmas time over dove the holidays. I think she heard my came up to the house Ray and there is no new problems or anything. They did. You know we had a nice visit, but she could be very nice very nice rate, and my mom thought she was a nice girl. She offered to help with the meal and help with the clean up. We play cards in you know, who's didn't seem to be any problem going through the time period of sheriff disappearance with every Object is important and I want some more detail about the aftermath of the tv marriage proposal,
We then on the battle to receive me yeah and then to the town. You after they talk to you afterwards about the proposed here might to make, because I ask him right because I didn't think he would marry her. I really didn't you know he said mom, no, I'm not getting married. He said it was just a game to go on tv right and they wanted to tell you about right after perforce internal disappeared, and we share with him when he told you that no so she you never heard her say it was a joke a game knocker. I never see her again after New Year's Eve, tv seen them never spoke to her. And so they were last seen that bingo home, which was across the street from an apartment building, cannot Quinson Road anyone coincidence
bingo, how generous second right, ninety eight and then then what happened like tat to do you heard any? I don't want. My daughter told me shares missing. She didn't come all right, great! Eight next thing, I know I got police at my door, news people at my door, like you know, I'm MIKE tumbled over both conifers me was a little guy from growing up. Unlike what what's he come become kind of thing, a sort of telling as his mom he was even a low bugger right with small right
Can he loved to fight and then do so grew at great? Did you get along with a siblings, so solid re? Looking? Does he keep in touch with the seventh with treaty? Does right, Stevie so far away right, then he doesn't know what they're that term Stevie comes here might might cabins phone than bill talk rate but to your knowledge, nobody in the family other than you as asked him anything about Charles is of no? I don't think so.
Unless Tracy has indeed in say anything, they were very close, so Tracy Deal TAT. She would talk to me. I want to talk to you, I don't know, does it individually, don't know where you from I'm from Eastern Ontario? Originally I come from a little town colouring prior the logging town, her new Ottawa ass. I grew up on the river there and then I moved it wrong. Some might dad was your previous husband right like you, whose make is that I don't want it well, that's why that's why I feel the chill of GPS words in the room, but it passes quickly and
move the conversation to learning a bit more about pats understanding of Michael's psychology. There was an incident that someone told me about, and then I looked in the paper and it was there about MIKE and Gwen when they were together like saying to the police that he had killed Goin in the kids and then went in for some. What was that all fell and bent his head really bad right and I dont know what did she do that here? saying all kinds of weird stuff. Then We need to remember what he had said, and this was around our times before here this is it's quite a while before men yeah I mean they were the apartment and talk to her when she was fine, the kids refined with no known broken furniture. You know anything, he had somehow convinced himself in his head that he had done this year.
And if you have any long term, serve psychological therapy after Ernie Colonel he deceit is got better. We was fine, zero medication for everything that you know like. No, He doesn't even go to a doctor when he needs to go right to my pc. Only we're comes to see you now see be pretty myself. Stevie does rate, but when these healthy enough that it's hard on him to drive here. Someone did he first sort of worry about shall be missing when it might start worrying, probably the Saturday night, Did he call you and say she's missing? What do I do? We do did modest, no rain aegis had his kids in English and joined them, so wasn't until the Monday than that she was actually reported missing, Bio Dat, right yeah.
I move and talking about the letter Pat mentioned receiving when I talk to her on the phone. The letter from Michael written just before he went into the store locker, and you said that he had communicated with you before we went in the locker. What how to that work like what was just normal talking rain, but you have gotten a letter. He said what we said in the hospital he set his something Then she said: there's a letter on awaited seem to you and he said through some money in it. He said you give the money for my girls and he says I'm sorry Ray but you had received this letter and what did the letter say when you gotta just that? He was very unhappy and eaten Wanna go on right. He said love me love bill. And he said, make sure my girls. No, I love them so
Michael alerted his mother, to be on the lookout for the letter again saying he was sorry did. You say why was unhappy woman, no heat and right, and when you receive that them, what you think I was scared right beside. I was scared. You do it again right, but he never has he's gone home with his life so much confided to you or any other family member is involvement and Charles disappearance. There was never any I dont baby, notably by that neither read so
we might very close mouthed about everything and anything rain. He never said nothing and then the family. How did everybody take it like? This does allow individuals upset the police even tried to get one of his boys to get my to confess. Damn right undoubtedly pats talking here of the bill. Son Mark Dempsey, they rented a motel room, put him up there paid for all expenses in everything rain and he laughed. He said what are they think I'm gonna turn my brother in for something right needs
took the money, everything very fond of a daughter. He tell you one told him: he thought it was funny rain tat. He had caught the police right. You don't talk to trace anymore, as you know, but they do so. I'm just thinking again. Randomly something's come up my back at the time January. Second, ninety eight when Cheryl disappears us today that people ass are bingo and the maiden Syria apparently MIKE made a phone call from your house to Cheryl answering machine and said something you remember him making a call on January. Secondly, the afternoon no, they don't have a long time ago would have an late afternoon unless I forgot
yeah, I mean he might use the phone. I mean I don't know rain. Did you ever see them fighting here? Sharing like nothing like physically fighting? Nor did she would fly off the handle that anything right. You just look at her sideways and she just fly off rate did might have a kind of a temperature Yeah, you stare the temper when he was a kid, but then you grew up. You know like when I was a teenager for years younger any many times has she. The house bakers show, is war, His right all around you join up here Martin
like? I said that nobody not write like no bruises, that's right. So I talked to bill before the episode aired where Kara Branton describes bruises on Cheryl. So he's not responding twenty thing from the podcast with this his own recollection about not seeing marks on Cheryl. So have you thought,
the years. What happened Cheryl them like work? Where did she go? What what could have happened after they got home after that? Bingo? So did you, when you guys, did you guys help but the source of the tongue? Searches? Did you guys ever gone? The bush and look for her was an interested did mighty think tat. He help look for her. I don't think so. So that's hard. I think further reason why people might be suspicious rain. Why do you think he wouldn't? Because he didn't want cameras shoved in his face right? That's why we wouldn't go. Oh, isn't going to be put on tv and always mothers helping search
Ray. I keep wondering if I might get lucky and Michael avoid, might just come through the door while I'm here, but then I realized that Pat hasn't told him. She's been talking to me at no point one about at great. You don't think there is any guided ever comes up rate. He gets up right is for a while there every new years. It was on tv right and then stopped. So we would put the tv on to make sure it was on and if they found anything- and I d ask him and he's in mom, I don't wanna talk about it. I gave our voters that they would upset over
body and especially make us all. The focus has been on him because he doesn't like talk of human rights, who said anything about it, I'm pretty sure, but if you actually agreed to talk about it that that would go away like, I think a big burden would be lifted from him from you from his kids, especially, but you don't feel comfortable asking him to tie. No I'll put you a mechanism that is all the more serious. And all normal unstoppable, none that what he has already right. Ok. Well, thanks very much appreciate your time, and I know that year, not easy to talk about this kind of non rate. We put it all behind us anything else, you'd like to
We have always something you ve always wanted to say. I can think of my opinion. Always is the more truth. You tell the better you. She also that's right now for everybody so, and I am glad to be able to talk about It- are able thanks very much to see later ticker fact again, pat and bill settled back at their kitchen table was I leave. They say that Michael's, the only one who visits them now in this little country, town, everyone else's sick or estranged, a family that fell apart in the wake of shares disappearance, a family with
secrets of its own a family whose youngest was a bully J, P says and they contained for a time and abusive parent Michael, a voice father. How did the secrets add up in the end we're getting closer Michael told his mother? He never touched share but Gerald Davidson saw him grabbing Cheryl by the throat and threatening her just weeks before she disappeared and how to all the versions of store. About where Cheryl was and what she was doing enter the calculation. Depending on who you talk to Michael said, she was sleeping dancing, sick at work, a boat to go already gone Brian still outstanding. Was he supposed to picture Ella was the lie detector enough to exclude him, and I've left here Pats little apartment without asking again to see
the letter Michael Road mail does mother before he entered the storage locker. I want that letter if it still exists to continue existing. Does it contain in exoneration, nor a smoking gun if other letters exist, written by Michael will, their owners fine come forward to help illuminates Michael's intent in their writing and what about Cheryl's letter one. She wrote before she disappeared to people she loved something else. I discovered something else that people do to each other called blackmail. You had been listen, two episode ten mom,
visit CBC dossier, Slash S, K S for more information on the case, including a who's who list that will help you, keep track of everyone. We spoken too in our investigation. Some one knows something is hosted, written and produced by David Region and mixed by sea. So Fernandez. This The reason is also produced by Chris Oak staff. Cap and executive producer hour of neurons are thin. Music is bye. Bye the wise men with vocals by Mary Market, o Hara end Schriner,
for more CBC original podcast go to sea BC, dossier, slash original podcast
Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.