David tracks down Michael Lavoie's stepbrother, Mark Dempsey, and talks to him about family, betrayal and the criminal code.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains graphic language Listener. Discretion is advised. You are listening to season. Two of someone know something from CBC radio. Previously asking, as I do regret my actions like sex part o ideal and my couch. He has on a shirt off and on his left side, here's a pretty good bite mark linked. The bottom teeth went in. I think that she said personally at the beginning, and I know that she was not telling us the whole truth is biased reading, because I do regret in every being my soul than you
say something sooner to the detractors. I gave Mr Lovejoy exactly what he wanted them tell me. I'm not finished, but is gonna keep on going. This is epochs. Six step brother I've got a reader. I swear We do. This gap is at this moment audio recordings. I've met Mark Dempsey behind a true story, building derelict dentist office sign on the front it it's a job site and he's working with a small crew on the outside was doing cement and stucco marks about five foot. Eight flushed face and radiant blue bloodshot eyes he's wearing a faded red cap that says Redskins and a dirty.
White T shirt shorts. Mark Dempsey is Michael, avoid step. Brother thanks, James right now offer me man rather that staff affirming the Green one yeah yeah thanks man so you guys are working inside somewhere where exterior was expert, extremely well for twenty seven years, before doing twenty seven years is a plaster marketed three there is in jail and it's got a fairly florid way of speaking so your hesitant about cursing on the airwaves. You might want to turn down the volume what jail Orient dont not adopt every.
The three year in Jane Free in Sudbury, Susie Marine Mammals, all the east, the less the dawn dawns my favorite for three years in jail. I made sure I quit that shit. I mean new stuff twenty seven years now, I made sure found something that I can be good, not half the goat, those guys in there at forty and fifty five that I'm not going to be that I got to get a bunch of other jobs and sound stucco, I mean sticking out of twenty seven years now
its mandate, life of job I saw a fuckin work to do Never never never, despite being so busy marks agreed to take a break from stuck going on this hottest a summer days to chat with me about a step brother might le boy. How do you know my late, my dad married? If I may make early day long standing kids. You play hockey the elder brother too. Yeah I embrace us when they got married. Your dad, my dad
How would I was very twelve thousand thirteen, so Baby Ere long mark grew up with MIKE they ve shared friends and a job and ass. We ve heard both had intimate relations Sheila, Darwinism, Sheila, says she and Mark were over in early October. Ninety ninety seven, but Mark remembers it a month, I quit Sheila November. I was really upset, then from spread. My shoe three kids love, so I found a fuck Does any other guy
even though she was making in town. Where am I dead I said visitation with the children and Mikey come in on the phone with Sheila and I said, give me a minute: I'm on the phone got a funny look in his eyes and fuck. I knew you fuckin my acts of terror and then absent he ran right out of my use. Gun he's gone, Mark maintained that Sheila started, calling Michael a boy in the December before Cheryl disappeared.
But in Sheila's version the timings a bit earlier in late October or November that those first calls were made. Started, calling MIKE in December in December in December, that sheriff driving down there and can put notes store my dad's door Woodrow lives at that time, Michael avoid. During the time he was with Cheryl would stay on and off at Cheryl no debts apartment in the off times. His mother pad and step that bills, place fact by fucking, faggot wife. You know me said the fact is easy to see the season. Marks still emotional about what he sees a betrayal Sheila. Outlined her experiences with Michael, but I am still interested.
The timing of the relationship that started on the phone, at least before Cheryl, disappeared mark has more to say about all of it, but something bizarre happens before we get to that Latin. Where, call MIKE my car battery and everything just the hell out of here. We're standing next to was broken into last night and the owner finds out anyway, Are we we lack or in their gas gone back. The batteries might draw they're gone get out of here. You write about they get in there While we, so. He was robbed. Lastly, was far greater guy cameras, bad fact enable headlights steerage right tools,
Easy now remember Jack instructed like area is, God seems like a pretty active neighbourhood, but we soon get back into talking about Michael Avoid I used to work for them. I worked with. What did you do it again? We did those area one candidate worked. What's video in Canada distribution companies for the H S records, I was the receiver users shepherd videos, the age ass back in the day. What what was on the table, There is no sex at all there, all sir! You knew, and I was ass, yet no not Have zero at that zero, zero that really respectable company Did you ever see him undertake
Any criminal act that you can tell me about so what kinds of things was being stolen at the time Robin Roberts money? Always always my fell about money houses, people ever fucking grab your wallet pocket came. We think back to notice a faded and wrinkled cobra tattoo on marks arm. You got it Rohingya, bigger arms. Now get that seventeen Sunday.
Michael, what kind of guys like what you know, what kind of person Ten guy. A newspaper delivering a pretty area mark prefers here to the fact that Michael avoid delivers papers to apartment thanks. I have confidence in myself.
I taught him alone account demonstrate, is my brother. I thought I might have a lot of communism himself. Jealousy Michael. Did anybody here the aggressive towards oily fight observation, Germantown, young people What love erases, Michael and welfare. Neil Shoulder as president, dog in large part, I asked mark about Cheryl and he remembers lay. The last time you saw her before she disappeared around Christmas nineteen. Ninety seven separate
Sheila went near car. Would she would never frigging front brand new tyres are weak front front tire blows I was doing one hundred and twenty I'm not going to Hamilton. I don't know what the fuck is going on. I was a weirdo fucking day for me. Ok, now that I think back Maybe he's just really press me to cover the bar to have a beer cheryl to under some written this work is bird broad, Cheryl there too high merry Christmas had said. I think you know what's goin on. Why? Why do you want to meet me with his girlfriend at the bar?
Last year I seen the thing and c c c h, H, Stevie rate, which was when he proposed to her. He saw that come out life. I'm not live. I seen it the next day or something like that. I see now The tv right all right, I'm right and then also need report said not around. You know you're doing your endeavour works. I'd like to see some justification share She was a beautiful girl. You know that I never ever want to look like her and I'll show. You just choose like a really really nice person and all right. She is gorgeous girl,
time manner a few times he's being really nice and never seen nothing, nothing. She is not who were either. She worked him hard, What about this business of stripping and she wanted to strengthen, was going to need Niagara falls and he took her there. That's hearsay, that's all yours! trying to make her dirty bitch. That's all going to highest far as I'm concerned you ever know her or see her when she was dancing shell. Never known of her answer. You get a job tat morning he had a boyfriend controlling. Are you going to be a dancer and drive never heard of MIKE ever being now
being a strip burn, tell me, I want a baseball, she wouldn't miss. I look. Maybe it's Orton. To remember that Michael Avoid has always been contained, they had nothing to do with the disappear. Sheriff Shepherd Mark and others who were close to Michael avoid often refer to him as Mikey he met with and my dad dad I come from Hamilton. I met him at sky, dome and I looked him in the eye, and I said I know she's probably murdered right and I asked him I said: did you do it
you trust me. We worked together many years re video on Canada and stuff, like that. You mean like him. Silent waves tells The confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, o Brien Ass she had comes to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret. The seven parts Greece includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Raquel and her family as they discuss their past. For the first time, what emerged was a much larger. Story here: silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast.
So when you asked me a question, how did you say, did you say, did you do it or did you said, did kill Cheryl shut again sailing said? Did you do it? and a half days, we can read each other unknown instances, ten so near each other, pretty amazing debts yeah right! He looked at me and men. Yes, my brain In my brain and yes, he did it. Ok, I can tell you absolutely ok but Kay
like I've known you for twenty years- and I asked you a question and I get a loan I know: the bottom line, you think, there's any possibility that he didn't have to How do we will your woman proposed to her and then she's gone Your mom's gone mom's got away rice in Nova, Scotia, sunlight I don't know, I can't see how, would be anybody else. Email! You don't try to commit suicide three days after some missing. The early girls conviction already. You know what I mean you distress, because you did. That
kill myself, surely makes sense to me faster than you did you ever have. Questions about the police investigation like that you're, a wonder what they could have done differently, or I guess if there were watching him and if I can save him from kill himself obviously there doing his job Marcus, pretty sure of himself and what he says there is intuitions about the voice guilt. But what would The boy say if he actually broke his silence about the case. Eight months after Cheryl disappeared in two or three after marked Dempsey went to catch. A blue days came with Michael Mark says the Hampton police approached him. They wanted mark to help them to see if he could get Michael avoid to open about the case. Energy sector,
one time that you worked with the police yeah thanks. They needed? They needed help neither get Michael. David. Thanks for me to come, the Hamilton whose there, the police, the Hamilton Police Department dawn. Dawn organism in that case they want me to get my area, BAR the hotel room and they rented me. And ask him: did you kill, share a shepherd? yea or make a definite every rig went to the hotel room. You in my hand, on the other hand,
accurate. Whenever I like that video, adapting the rain he's got off Perkins beer. While I had a shower, I didn't ask him properly or sunlight. As I said, the right question cops figured that I wasn't really helping less right, so you had a hotel room, they had cameras going like land and you were supposed to say. Hey Michael, did feel sure like out. Are you they wanted to buy out yet, and that was the key question like you, just sort of the police pay you to help them. Yes, seated, fifty dollars a day and a rented my motel room, profit.
The police interview. You a lot of his asked me how to get making himself phrase. I wasn't there how long you work with the policeman. When I asked you to try to get Michael. The consensus reached two weeks. We still weak Patria language should be back today I was working like downer enough become a few times they wanted it sat up. They set up a power. I suppose ass a few questions, power ring it didn't happen, you couldn't figure way out to say it yeah. They
I you me, I said, did you I said spasm mean nothing? Did you kill mean shepherd word? I kill Sheryl Sheppard It is this, please be all over. It remains fucking stupid, we're all criminal, we ve all done time for our funding. Keep your mouth shut, you'll, never get come forward, retired, Hamilton, detective Warren Coral is reluctant to tat. Me much about the operation with Mark at first we do homicide investigations. There is a lot of different techniques that are undertaken and I prefer not to talk specifically about all those things, but
there were allotted different attempts made leave that up to her imagination, to try and gain evidence for this case and people who we thought were genuine and helping us out. Let us down at different moments and and it was extremely frustrating and call RO eventually shares his theory about why this protein, killer sting operation didn't go anywhere so fur for the mark clang. If we choose to use what he says, he basically says he couldn't bring himself to say. Did you do it MIKE and the way that he was supposed to say it, but you are suggesting that it wasn't. This wasn't helpful. Or that around a boat way, I think Mark led MIKE know that he was talking to the police and that's why I didn't panel, he telegraphed it somehow he did.
I think you blatantly told generally a person who has not committed a crime comes forward and assists the police and MIKE was known to the police, but He was now certainly not some hardened criminal that that we, you know that we would typically have people clam up on and he has just never ever help himself in two not be a suspect in this, and- and I think that's telling the toy that is done. I believe that he will be continued to be number one suspect in this matter. I think
It can tell us a lot of different things. If we really wanted to, but Mark Dempsey, says Michael avoid, will never tell them anything. He says they lived by a different kind. And of code. There is certainly called shut. Your fuckin mouth put yourself is the way it goes. As I am concerned. When I find the body, then maybe we might get some coming something I don't know what I'll, never put it on himself, We all know
it's not a way of life, but when I was younger you're not a rat campi around. My bow loser conviction, one asking when others herself isn't clean ever since then I saw the bad guy yesterday I was go jail yesterday. You are in jail yesterday yesterday, why I got a fucking money. Therefore, at the beginning, our interview, a man on a nearby porch behind us, was yelling, something I couldn't catch the same man mark as now referring to I guess he was going mark before I arrived Mark, got into a fist fight with him and spend it. Few hours in jail? Ok,
first time since two thousand and two a big mouth still looking girl cuz? I got to go work in the side and I got to work in the front and when we might shift he right tell me he's going to steal my pocket pool I'm not upset still really knows that. Make your version The controls has to someone happens in an arraignment or something or right now have direct contact with him. Am I fucking neighbour, here
said: just want to get my job done to do this job. It's a tough moment. Worried at the idea of getting sucked I to a life, he says, he's turned his back on more slow about battery. Is global, when was the last time you talk to me my dad just turn: seventy five, I seen him and my dad to sixty five. I told my dad died. In that area.
That leads me like that? sub said about Michael avoid being with Sheila but based him I have seen and what he said he's also interested in finding out what happened to share a shepherd surveys? I still heard of him sorry for share or not.
Here today, nice girl. I let you get back to work. I know that a lot of time, with a planning to talk to Michael, a voice ex partner when so before I go. I asked mark about her Tommy book when she's nicely girl had the kid Certainly, I noted the girls three of them Has she moved out last? She got the fuck out of dodge and not! Yet I'm going to say I am going to. We figured out we're Goin works and I'm planning to drive out there with her death
thanks very much a prompt aid always regarded as anyone get much I leave. Architects org side with the sun, beating down on his stucco and scaffolding. I, like his openness, is experiences with Michael avoid the Blue Jays game. How we worked with police, her didn't He reminds me of many people. I've met in my life who struggle through it and hope for something better. Despite a muddled past that can sometimes overtake them, he stepped up and told me what he knew, and that takes me back to thinking about when she also has a story to tell, and I need her to tell it but before I get too far and planning that trip, I get a car from Odette below David,
Ohio that how are you I haven't been feeling good at all or inhuman good, my nervous really! I can not right now So so what do you think? We should do them that I dont know. So we have it all in place a system matter of if you are able to go or not. So what's your thoughts Odette says her nerves are afraid and that she can't go on the trip after all, so I'll, be hitting the road myself off to cross the country to see. If I can talk to Gwen one of the key people and Michael avoid life and whose children were we Michael across that weekend in early January. Ninety, ninety eight, when she disappeared.
You have been listening to episode. Six stepmother visit CBC dossier, Slash escape to see photos of, Mark Dempsey and learn more about the case. Someone know something is hosted, written and produced by David Region and mixed by sea. So Fernandez The series is also produced by Chris O Steph CAP and executive producer However, New Ronnie, our theme music. By Bob Wiseman. With vote Those by Mary Market, O Hara ends this Reimer,
for more CBC original podcast go to sea BC, dossier, slash original podcast,
Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.