David takes a closer look at the New Year's Eve proposal video with a forensic psychologist and the TV host who was there that night. We also hear from people who say they witnessed violence between Michael and Sheryl first hand.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains graphic language listener. Discretion is advised you I'm listening to season. Two of someone know something from CBC Radio previously Es K, S will happen. Should please just left life stern argument. He grabbed her through it was squash. Really bad here was bleeding Harold Sharon Davidson, they lived in the same building. They ran it.
A boy in the underground parking again and he had bags of clothing. What kinds of things to do experience with my girl can keep awake wait a year. Something happened where I was basically heard me like. I don't know how I will surely not be this is episode, nine, the appearance of force. Surviving a microfinance place here. Microchips was the host of the there's a bash Roma oh boy, marriage the Sheryl Shepherd,
to examine the December thirty. First, nineteen. Ninety seven new year's the marriage proposal between Michael a boy and Cheryl Shepherd a little more closely and MIKE Richards is a good place to start he's in the video standing right next to share on Michael does Richard, remember anything specific about that evening and what secrets, if any, might this video hold I don't here, the same guy in the video my closer that makes the same guy. But now, with thinner hair of bronzy, ten and a thicker waistline buddy, still projects the aura of tv host He invites me into his back yard and we sit on launchers next to a swimming pool
My name is MIKE Richards. They work for tedious and ten. Fifty back and nineteen ninety seven. I worked on a show with Jeff, zombie be on one hundred five and Hamilton, and so they wanted to do this satellite New year's Eve show that was can be broadcast via satellite. My understanding, the person I was seeing at the time because I was separated. I decided like a lot of unstable men to put her on camera, she had no broadcast background whatsoever, The best part of this is all going to be lied. Richards, girlfriend Tracy was the co host that night you cannot certain moments, be seen with the microphone and heard loudly describing the LE voice Shepherd proposal traced
he had never been on camera before and Richards was worried about how drunk everybody was getting the weird thing. Let me dolly unprotected and I feel like a chippendale dancer on free rye night and they were radically molesting me literally. Both men and women just got so weird, one point I remember when they go to the wide shot I'm screaming. I said there grabbing my nipples a blue collar city in which they were the reasons why I love it and have been a Hamilton, take get fan since the moment I was born, so I I get the nature of of what is fun for them. It's not a Harvard High T club. So
for MIKE Richard the evening was as surreal as it appears now. Nineteen years later, the moment Michael avoid, proposes to Cheryl Shepherd People and party hats, holding drinks stumble through the scene or try to be part of it performing for the camera MIKE Richard says he had never seen shepherd or olive oil before or after that moment. So would they have just been put to you by an associate producer or due to find them. They ve been brought to a spot for the shooter, as for the camera, to make sure that you were in the right place at the right time to get the right yeah, whatever was gonna happen, live what's going to happen, and there is nothing to stop that there was no delay, it was life,
So, dear knowledge, Michael avoid proposed for the first time to show shepherd on that show in front of you wasn't a rehearsed. That was not a rehearse that wasn't rehearsed. Look. The only thing that would have been prepared was the fact that that was going to happen with Those couples right from what understand it was more than one that night until we call Did you know that she had disappeared note, because that name would have meant a thing to me. I can not not at that moment. Ok interesting! So did the police never came to speak? You never know not. That was. I was never involved in any police investigation. I've never been up this. That was Nike no seven, and this is jogging my memory, but I know for a fact one hundred percent clarity that I was never approached by ethnically services at first, I am surprised that MIKE Richards had never heard about shares disappearance prior to being contacted by us, but he goes
to tell me that he was based of Toronto at the time. Let's get this video, I show you and then you can I'd like to, see if the video jogs MIKE's memory about anything it's been over, nineteen years now. Ok, so what's what have you to sit and watch it next to me here? If I don't get, you can see the screen even like to get those canopy whickered. What's not stop it or talk during first one, and then you can start and stop and tell me what you think. So here we go regular about what you're doing the Yo Starts and MIKE Richards is glued to the screen from beginning to end
has a very, very important question to ask this young lady young lady, a nineteen. Ninety eight. I remember him I'd. I remember him. Yes, I do she looked like so many of them in the way that ninety ninety seven even the heirs thousand how they looked. But I do remember him that is remarkable you know what I was his jogs your memory. Looking at that moment, seeing that couple. But to say that I remember a disappearance a short time later. I it still does not register with me strange.
But you remember him wailea. What do you remember about him Well, I remember the you know he had a look of of not an easy life, a lot of people. That area. As I said, I I've I've my mom's from from that originally maybe going to Hamilton since I was since I was born, and there are parts of that area that living tougher harder life than others and economically it can get crunched pretty good. And so there are guys who looked like they have lived the tougher life just by parents and then she was hammered like I do recall it. She was excited, but in alcohol was just pouring this night right it it it just. Was that kind of night where, as I said in the hammer, they were gonna, let it go. This was a big event for them. This is a big night for a lot of people.
So you say you remember, Michael, did he speak you afterwards? Do you remember sort of the whole proposal no, because because of as soon as the shots were done, Then they would be moving us during the video to the next spot to the next scheduled break a because this was going life. This was live television so once that was done on to the next, but I wouldn't spoke in any words to those people ever again. Ever again, she's obviously need created to begin with. So I'm sure seemed a little surreal before starter Then he moves in for that. RON, Jeremy like moment where there's all of a sudden flickering tongues in that goes on for a longer period of time than I would have thought, and she still stunt
like she's, obviously again, the combination of of alcohol and by at least looking back at this now, almost twenty years, then she seems almost ill prepared, for that would be my take just looking at this as a as an outside observer watching a twenty year old video is that she is stunt. By this? If she was waiting for this to be her magical moment, the more it comes out of her mouth. She would have screamed. Yes, that's what happens. That's what happens. She would have lunged it hit that mean that you're, Walmart moment. I love you marry me. Of course I will do this was I want you, man been an oh, my god, and then she just frozen by the whole thing. That's what it looks like to me We watch a few moments from the video one more time and I encourage
listeners to do so too, on the scarce website he's the one the taboo she's she's out of a look at overwhelmed and the moment how odd to see that all these years later but see You know a kiss like that. The least means looking at it is one of the domination in certain of ownership, like a victory, won something there that wasn't a romantic is necessarily a joke about it at the time, because I have to live television. I You have to say something, but that
It will not a warm and brace very odd and as it I'd upon seeing this now, I do. I do remember him, but I do not remember the actual news of this. Probably that would come out what days later Richards take on my concertos body. Language in the video leads me to wonder if it perception may be tweaked because he knew before walk. The charter would disappear less than forty eight hours later, Morton to note here that Michael avoid denies having anything to do with shares disappearance, and I hope that he will agree to talk to me. He may have important clues about the last time. He says he saw Cheryl In the meantime, I want to consult with someone who doesn't know a single detail about the case, an expert in
rising body language David faced even hours ago and locked, I know Stephen Porter- is a british cows Umbria based forensic psychologist, who specializes in reading micro expressions from someone's behaviour, including face or body in tandem with their word choices, to determine whether someone is being truthful. In other words, Porter is a human lie. Detector, emotional outburst, really it's a phone call. But I've met porter before he seems younger than he is and has thick dark hair and a penetrating gaze previous to this call
oh and before we started to air season two, I asked him to take a look at the short new year's Eve segment featuring share on Michael without telling him anything about them or the case porter, Also promise not to look up any information on line or elsewhere. I simply ask for his opinions on the couple in the video Why what I propose to do to go through chronologically? My innovations of the video and then so the summarize my impression that the n- ok, that's great. I thought I watch this thing I can't I'm so far, and it's a couple hours yesterday and this morning so morning so absolutely no idea but the back story. I didn't you know, I'm glad you took that approach. I had no preconceptions, it was very mysterious. What do you want me to be looking so
what are some my observations. That is very interesting, quip, I've watch this video many times myself and made my own observations, but Stephen Porter. Goes way beyond that, with virtually a frame by frame timed breakdown of the action. So at twenty eight seconds I know that my makes a happy smirk bit of contempt for is looking into the camera at thirty two seconds. He grasped her neck tightly with strange finger grass. The smile of not real, she seems to be going back from him at that point, almost wary about him. He says marry me Cheryl. At thirty five seconds monsieur, we can talk put on the spot for forty two. Secondly starts to kiss her. She seemed her
you, mean then starts to kiss her aggressively forty eight seconds you looked into the camera with an aggressive, my camera, with an aggressive, possessive, stairs, I'll look a revenge or political cheese mine, but he's sending a message to somebody that again at fifty one seconds is three distinct instances where he looked into the camera. He's got is what I call the grass of glare possesses stare ass, her own ever does say: yes, until the host at Her- and she says yes, Said- were reticent tone but she's playing on. You didn't look like when she says yes, when she does look at em, might look almost angrier sceptical. As you know, he doesn't really quite believe it notes
there are looks drunk or days are over the whole time. Somebody tat you were injury on her right shoulder. I did notice at fifty five seconds when she says yes, he left his arm and a victory and whose fifty six fifty seven seconds he looks again it directly into the camera before looking at Cheryl, drop me as a sign that he was communicated with somebody else might be watching where's communicate to the world that he kind of owns this woman at fifty seven seconds you can. We, over to kiss her if he wins back back away from him. Fifty seconds is looking at him doesn't seem as happy as somebody who just suggest to a proposal. He could hear back creep away possess, He continued to hold a drink in her right hand, the whole time possible to avoid having to embrace him at one twenty
four thousand one hundred and thirty. She never looks at MIKE, which I found odd one hundred and twenty eight. You smiling, but she looks more like a deer in the headlights, almost like a beautiful smile, one hundred and twenty eight MIKE players in the camera, with a weird smirk one hundred and thirty eight. It appears that she made engagement, ring flows whereby specific observations, my general observations, relating to making Cheryl Rhoda might not only propose Cheryl, buddy, communicating possession or ownership of Cheryl somebody else specifically who may be watching or just to the world in general. Not really happy as much as he seems victorious sold to service summarised the whole thing. I feel a whole lot more going on. Then a man is proposing
the woman who genuinely loves and a whole lot more going on with heard and a woman whose happily saying yes to the proposals that she's afraid of something porters starvation, while striking and conducted without any prior knowledge of the case are not something that necessarily proves anything. Reward. The video with porters observations in mind tends to bring them forward. I noticed she leaning away instead of leaning in and she barely looks, Michael after he proposes and Michael does look straight into the camera, Is there something going on in this video under the surface? I need to find someone who actually he saw Michael ensure alive in person with their own eyes outside of a drunken party in daily life.
Or you very bill. Hello. I've approached Bill, Branton, PAMELA Other I met PAMELA Propane tanks in Episode three, according to her. I used to be a member of the Red Devils, biker club, founded here and Hamilton, and nineteen forty eight, but he retired many years ago, Bill New Cheryl when she was younger and his twin daughters, pay an Paula were two of Charles closest friends. So far, I've spoken to PAMELA, but her sister Paula has been more elusive, hollow used to dance with share and I think knew her the best of anyone but she's reticent to talk, I'm hoping that she'll be here today. I I'm day David anywhere for CBC Radio and I'm doing a dark about Cheryl, Shepard and
You know anybody has any information at all can really help much sure. Why not There is then, all the time she worked. So you know You knew Cheryl and when did you, meter. What was the matter be? Ninety two, ninety three, ninety four, an end When this happened, did you have any sort of thoughts going through your head? anything other than a start. You just look. My daughter takes the talking about our own time, my nose, That's great! Well, thanks, very much sorry to bug you on a nice windy day. It's supposed to rain a bit later. Okay, no luck here, but in the process of looking for Paula, I eventually come into contact with her daughter who, Name is Kara Kara, whom I have met only on the phone now in her mid twenties, went to University for anthropology
Gee engender studies and Kara New Cheryl to Helen Keller, hiker? Yes, so thanks so much for calling stir on the top. How did you know Cheryl, I initially because she was basically like my aunt. She was ways if my mom I, My mom would drop us off with me, pan and those two be together all the time. Kara Branton was just a kid. Full of money. Shy of her seventh birthday when Cheryl went missing and she some very fond memories of Cheryl at that time. I'm sure was the most loving person She treated myself, my siblings, like we were her own children. I remember her always coming and hugging. I am so happy to see, as she just was the biggest lover and she just was always
they're bringing us. You know little gaps always saying come sleep over and I remember you know, share always taking me out my brother and I should bring us it's been working all the time. Get us each a bottle of peach, Jews and I contend, timid and we share that in the back of a convertible. I think it was an old man. HANS Gert somebody's convertible, but we're always therein the happiest kids ever she was always, smiling. She was always so excited. She was always so positive But it's a bit of a different story. When Kara turns to her memories of Michael the boy I had witnessed hen and there Andrea sleeping at her house. I remember one evening and it was the winter time and I was in the living room and watching tv, and they were in the kitchen which was attached to the living room area and They were yelling about something
it tells us share. I was trying to kind of hide away from me and you know, keep their voices down. He was raising his voice- and I remember a kind of kicking out the minute like corner of my eye, like a little child, would do in their curious and I remember seeing him, you know this like anger look in his face and her back was away from me so much. Wish. I could only see her back and I just remember him slapping her in the face and yelled something I hams. You turn around. She looked at me, so let's go in the bedroom and then just was so scared. I was looking at him and he had turned away and damn I went to the bedroom. I remember shaking she's sale. You know laughing kind of look like her. Tears lay her eyes and she was Saturday. Good thing. I never seen Cheryl that way and I scared, because I never seen her scared or upset. It was always happy She tried to. You know, promised smile and smile author Hey, don't worry it's nothing! It's! Ok! Don't worry carrots, ok
and down than she left the room and then there was more. Talking yelling and then a kind of all subsided. I, I don't know if he left or what happened, but I still- bedroom and continued watching tv and remembers, always feeling uncomfortable around him and I never grow the Father, so I never had that really. Can terrible feeling around like an older man as a young girl, so to speak. Die and later I saw my mommy being abused by men, so it just say, it was scary to me and it triggered something in me that you know like I- never trust it man and, and this whole idea of you, you noticed her. A scary man- and I remember her coming in and still smiling her eyes- were watering monsieur still smiling. It's ok here, don't worry. It's ok, saying on her arm, remember, seeing a couple of bruises, but at the time that
I didn't call really anything, because it didn't think anything. You know it's not the servants. I don't saying it's ok so hard. I remember that this will. It was cold outside and Who is right before she had disappeared in the months before, they remember going home and tell him I'm on about this incident. Like you know, asking Why was sir upset- and I remember my mom saying well, that's why she has bruises on the phone when she was on the phone? Well, that's why she's got breezes? That's I Scott Bruises, even Kara was telling me last night. Kara says that the bruises she saw Cheryl were something she remembers. Her mom discussing was Cheryl on more than one occasion, Shell, Greece is on her, but she would always cover them up, and I remember my mom actually. So what the fuck is this. They they sore alot. What the fuck is this euro? What's going on in Europe,
was very ashamed about it. Very nothing, don't worry, and then my mom's like, is it that fucking guy he's a fucking idiot? Why you with him get rid of him Charlie's fuckin. Loser in. I remember my mom saying Cheryl never covered up her body was ashamed around my mom. They were always variable with with each other. There was never anything to her. I'd and then, when she started dating him, especially you know near the whole an situation. My mom realize that Cheryl is hiding a lie and she became a lot more passive. I remember other time I was about a week before she went missing around Christmas time and I was supposed to sleep over at Cheryl's house again and Cheryl came to pick me up, but MIKE was in the car, and my mom had walked to the front door so that I could go out and she saw him in the car and she wouldn't. Let me go so. Cheryl drive the car and she was like Paula. Let's go, let's go I'm an mounds like she's, not going MIKE it's going with. You know that guy she's not going around that guy, no way I'll fuck interested.
Engine. Others swearing and I remember crime illegal. Please please I want to go with you share on shows, like oh she'll, be fine curse. Fine with me. Don't worry. I trust me come on come on power like the like nope she's going care gettin how she's not going, and then you know her ensure a kind of They had a little match between each other that I was not going in She did not trust me around him and she refused to let me go and and shortly after I remember, my mom crying, and it was this whole situation. I remember mountain saying this is why I didn't let you go now. We don't know where, while mozzarella distinct memory yeah and I remember crying remember I was in my Pocahontas nightgown. I was so excited to go over like you know, regardless of what had happened before ok, you now share always gave us like towards.
Then Kandian. She was basically like an at so and to see my mom say. No, my mom You know as a very care free, you know, go with the flow like let things but she refused to let me go that night, because she saw him- and I- and I remember that because my mom never said no to me my mom. Never yelled at me. She never said no ever and I remember crying in being so upset with her. Silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, recall, o Brien ass. She had comes to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret Seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Raquel and her family as they discuss their past. For the first time. What emerged was a much larger story.
Here silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast I remember hearing I guess in retrospect it's someone It was somebody that was ringing their bows, but I remember my mom trying to cheer me up and saying Caricom aside, look, look it and I came outside and I heard bells and she said That's the reindeer and I will say on like ice really- and I just remember the amazement I'll- never forget that, because I literally and my heart as a child thought that Santa existed and that You know there is sleigh bells and he was out on Christmas or you know this time
the reindeer we're out and I could hear the boughs while so this was definitely Christmas time. Yet a hundred percent Christmas time Christmas time and it would have been you're saying that Christmas before she disappeared. Yes, I know sterile Sherwin I've been a situation that, like Cheryl, is a very like ok factors, and I want to deal with this You know, like I'm, not gonna, put up with this her, my mom, we're two peas in a pod. They are the exact same. They were both in the in the sense that you know not going to put up with shit. And that's why my mom, I feel got so upset with her, because it was very out of character that she was still with somebody that you know it was clearly not making her happy, and I remember the whole engagement it was. It was so furious because my mom was like what the fuc this is not share in this. She does not want this. I know she doesn't want this and I remember saying she smiled and I'm she's happy. No, she does not want this. This is not right.
Even though young at the time, Karras Memories of share, o and Michael seem fresh and emotionally raw to her things were not wrong. Between Cheryl and Michael thank you to the car Kara ends she says her mother, Palos Stubborn and that she won't likely changed her mind and speak with me, but I still feel it could happen.
it's a rainy day now and I'm on my way to meet someone else who knew Michael and sharing a man who lived in the same building named Gerald Davidson. The same man detective foregone says, witnessed, Michael with garbage bags sometime after January, first nineteen. Ninety eight, oh sir, I look for gaining Gerald David. We do working for CBC Radio on a programme that I think you can help me with a case of Cheryl Shepherd in Hamilton, dark, hair, turning white stocky with a goatee glasses and a confidence underscored by bygone bluish tattoos on both for arms Davidson's does he used to hang out? It seemed choice and red Devils, biker club,
this is in the Hamilton area. Now he rents a big, yellow, brick century farmhouse, somewhere in southern Ontario. A small group of White Muscovites Ducks stroll past searching for grain along the rough driveway. Drove in on a gleaming Harley is parked in a dilapidated garage in future I step into Davidson's place and am engulfed by a motley crew of dogs. How many dogs, the sufferers, have run out of estimating share our well It's been an almost two decades right, so Davidson sinks down into a broad cushioned, folder love seat in front of me and his dogs,
settled down on him. Ones are Chihuahua named Corky and he sits gnawing on Davidson's hand as he talks Managerial David. You, literally eight fifty were increased to roast and agree. I met Cheryl. Oh geez, put five years before the incident where she disappeared. Davidson lived on the second floor. Sharon MIKE lived on the seventh its show is dress nice. Sexy was always that nice, clothes and stuff. She was always nice to me and I got along with a really good. You know what she was. She used to go out with another friend of mine and then that friend was Brian Sweeney, Sheryl. Second husband, I did her wedding
had limited supplied a limousine for her wedding and we used to hang on a team words of meat and went with in I call it. My central office had tried part my limos all the time and you Saturn a term met her but I knew everybody, inner and everybody talked more sure it had the pigeon. There, nobody knew that regime. So that's why I first met her was had to morning. Then Davidson tells me the story: of how he witnessed Michael avoid with garbage bags about three days before the police came, they weren't really. I was in the underground parking and I was getting out of my card. He was coming into the underground parking like there's an elevator than a door, and he was carrying two garbage based on one hand and its employees in the other when he was carrying the bags is top o. I asked myself over
the sheriff, and he said she sick. She can't get out of bed, is genuine collar mother taught her mother. I saw my eyes, I hope she gets better and he threw the stuff in the arms of the underground bargain. For this. This is some time after dinner. First three days before the police, Gallia Davidson dates store. So that it could have occurred between Friday January second and Monday January. Fifth, police say that indeed if its statement he made at the time it was simply sometimes time after January. First, one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight he couldn't get out of there fast enough
and why do we respond were self, and you think this would be after January, first by letter to you the grid after years, if it was close to nurse and he said that he had women's clothes in the bag. I didn't know what was in the banks, but area non hangers. There was uv taller words causing like dress bands like I do it, the closure of war and look like women's dress pants. There was a skirt and a cup of blouses and stifle astronomer tobacco car from Davidson's garbage bag story, its apparent that the voice was transporting at least women's clothing, but what else was in the bags is unknown and why the voice that Cheryl was sick, upstairs and voluntarily added that she could not
even call her mother. This is what Davidson reported to police at the time, but Cheryl did call her other and relatives on January? First, around midday and didn't team, sick or mention a sickness on J Henry Ii Cheryl was seen at the bingo between nine hundred and thirty, a dot m, and one thousand two hundred and thirty p dot m again not sick in the apartment and later on January. Second, according to Le Voice, he drove Cheryl to the Concord. Hotel in Niagara falls to dance though, if she was sick on the second and Lavoy did dropper at the Concord. One wonders if it would have been even possible to dance Unfortunately, no clear a date is available for when Davidson may have witnessed Lovejoy with the garbage bags after January. First, as he told police at the time or three days before police arrived at eight fifty one Queenstown as he is
told me the further away from January. Second, the Davidson may have seen the boy with the bags, the stranger his comment that sure was sick, upstairs becomes because it clear that sheriff was missing across the weekend, I would be seemed a couple times pretty diapers but David. Since garbage bag story is not the only thing he wants to talk about today. In the weeks leading up to Cheryl Shoppers disappearance, Davidson witnessed other interactions between Cheryl and Michael avoid. One incident occurs just before Christmas at the main entrance voyage to Cheryl's apartment building, So what did you witness between Sherilyn MIKE? He was an employee arguing with her, but I never realized at the time that she was sure I was into so you thought of dancing or whatever shoes,
I never knew her that I never knew she did that butter. Apparently that's just what their arguing about her. She want to get back into it or something- and I heard him argued for years I just there to make sure that hidden, your hitter he just took off. She went back upstairs but her. The argument was abodes Tommy seated. Remember any sniffer hypochondria. All I heard her changes. I want to do it again, and he was soon- I don't want you dancing. I knew right away what a luxury You shouldn't. I had enough of this stuff anyway. Dance and we don't need money in all is crap she said I do know whether you like it or not. Davidson goes
through the story again and a few more details emerge. I came in from the underground parking to check the mail at the boxes and they're in the building, and I came out of the elevator and they were standing in two hundred and forty eight and they were screaming. She was screaming when he was but she's getting back into it. He said you're not getting back into what you're not doing that anymore and he grabbed her by the arm, try to pull in outside, but she went back in the building and shut the door and he just took off like it has a lock. So I don't know if he had a key, or is she just got in the elevator and went upstairs so
He took off his neighbours into that and what was understanding what they were talking about? I guess she wanted to get into this dancing again and I dont know- and that was just just before Christmas. There are getting in dutch last time. I saw her sister but are known for a long time so, like I just met a girl, before she was gone over this guy. This altercation in the foyer was not previously reported to police. Here we have shown oh arguing and jostling with Michael just a couple of weeks before she disappears according to Davidson's obsolete. Since, because Cheryl wanted to return to dancing and Michael angrily does not want or two
and then the other incident was just a little but before that yet, but it was but a week before they like the garbage bag incident. This third event happened. Davidson says in the underground parking area a week or more before the fight before you so sometime in December before Christmas. Just weeks before girl disappeared. When I came into the underground parking, I heard people arguing, so I drove down to come down to go around the corner and they part maybe a hundred feet from where I parked my parking spot. I just had a Cadillac painted and I can move it at the underground. I heard somebody arguing and then I heard her scream. She was pretty boisterous to she wasn't the most, but she she was screaming at him. So I just got out of my car and stood there and lean against,
and then he grabbed her put up against a wall. He says you keep fucking around with me. Excuse my language. He says something is going to happen to you and you had her up against the wall in the underground parking by the throat and that these render like a bedrock resisting Christmas. Police have not heard the verbal part of this threat before that David, says he observed, and I left her watch to make sure you what you're gonna be too should enter river and then It took off. I really didn't want to get into that kind of Mass Davidson's. Payments to police, do include another detail that I dont here and my interview in Davidson's original statement: he says that when he saw Michael avoid grab Cheryl by the throat in the parking garage sheriff was wearing her TIM Hortense, uniform and then all ocean disappear the mention of throat.
Finds me of Odette story of returning to the apartment one day and seeing the aftermath of a their grabbing incident reportedly, involving Michael Shiro is crying and her three. Scratched and bleeding we haven't been able to. I'm the female Hamilton police officer who legibly took Cheryl statement. So, if you're out there please get in touch I return one more time to the garbage bag incident and try to get Davidson to far thus on the timing, one more time and while he cannot pinpointed going back over his memory again does bring out something else. After new year. I know,
and a new year that just brought something back to they went out for New year's and they had a big fight. Then right. This is what he told me that they had a big fight at new years and she never told me- I never talk to her about it, but that she want she was dancing with somebody or something and they had a big fight when Michael's former partner also told police that Michael said, he ensure had an argument. Is this the same argument he allegedly told Davidson about or a different one day It's an says. He knew Michael ensure a well and the discussion about the argument makes me wonder what Davidson might have noticed about Charles Temper or shares our shoes like shoes, a crazy woman. I got one over there, but I mean she was if you're pissed her off.
She got violent, she'd screaming young, throw stuff you know. So I don't know if this lead to them getting into a fighter. I was up to the apart when the police were there now I see them on the spot on a wall, Woody circle and stuff, and I talked to the police and I told him saved up I'm telling you: what did the police tell you but the spots on the wall? They said they were Coke Coke. Who spoke before, I'm not sure police knew exactly what it was on the wall at the time the Davidson was there, but adding together what guy and said Michel was asked by police about food or Greece, fights and Detective Tom's answer about.
No substantial blood found the range of what the spot circled on the wall could have been becomes a bit clearer here and enough. They had a fight in some stronger rounder, but you know what you are doing. They showed to the circles phenomenal spots Rachel, obviously either look of her blood splattered in they said at their doors. Signs of alteration in delivering their cheeks. She didn't wear glasses all the time she did where they want to know about it. You didn't clue on me a publicity andor contacts. Everything was found, work context more often than rises, it just cincture, alarmist everyday in another department and then all of a sudden disappear. Usually when you see somebody all the time, he wondered how bright, but she would
in all them. He just kind of shun me off. If I try to talk to and was there ever any body that you met, that thought the term I still be alive. No, no, I don't think one person's ever said she just took off. It wasn't like her to just two. There has heard remember closer. I can't see her just taken off, leaving their monthly tat. No, no nice people mumbling, unlike amongst these, always pissed off this guy, and he was always in this. Like somebody jerk me off mood, you know what I mean. Like he's never talked to you, you watch a very nice, but he did talk to you, but I didn't associate with him too much. I know I talk to her one time and horns at main away with any gimme. The walk, like you nor state way for credit
but I knew a long long time before links for five years for the had a problem with a tender fight at him heartened? I got you nurse and fights with other women, nor other guys. I Cedar Project Irene Malta horns really oh yeah, some while she was on the job mono she'd one if you started argue with her she jumped on yours- and I don't know- if that's what happened if he got in her face and she just when Adam he was a lot bigger, she was sure to tidy shadowy four hundred pound. It was so long ago it's hard to remember what is your talking. You start thinking and it's a shame to I liked her.
Davidson and I move outside the rain has thinned, but the skies still overcast. I want to know more about the incidence of her Davidson talk about so I have an idea. Can you dislike, and can you show me like on my body like you can how he was grabbing, demonstrate to me how it is when you saw him grabbed her arm? How did you do that when you grabbed in the foyer, while the doors like it all up in this way and the other one opened in so he grabbed it? or he grabbed a buddy, I'm like right. There Davidson grabs my forearm where it meets the elbow and yanks hard while holding onto a bricked column that supports the porch with his other hand, Friday Polar and then she went for the other door was open.
He was whole, not let go you let go so she went through the door and she shut the door and went to the elevator used one of his left. I don't get a key. Then I ask Davidson to demonstrate how we saw the boy grabbing Cheryl by the throat better like this right up again in an against one hand on the earth for her feet. Ramos, after flock really Davidson, demonstrates Michael's hold on Charles Throat. By pushing me against the bricks and lifting with his hand, its firm and abrupt and horrifying when he grabbed her and went back with her,
earned a feat. Roma like she was a small group and I would add, more trouble doing it, but I don't know why I never like the guy from the time I met they just certain about images. You get that feeling about somebody. I just never like a kind to haunt you cause. You don't know it in or just have closure for the mom. I feel bad for the money friends is bad enough, but for apparent lack of one of my kids. When I get six kid one of them went missing like that. You know it would drag me nuts. I just wouldn't stop. In another member state the reins picked up again and I'm on a long straight road driving home, it's flat country, because
it used to be at the bottom of a shallow see, you can still find fossils in the limestone around here. If you dig beneath the soil or kick at some of the river beds from Devonian era, I wonder how long memories, like the ones I have just heard from Gerald David Sinner, Kara Branton, remain etched. Your brain before their founder, come to the surface. Maybe some. Are forever. And how do you know when you found the whole memory or just expose who's, the leading edge of an amber to air. For the first time, the stories I've heard from these people are startling, along with porters analysis of the proposal, video but is There is still more to wonder if certain. There is because I've met peep. Or who are even closer to Michael avoid, and we ve heard from yet and who have never spoken before
tat the boy his mother. You have been listening to episode line the appearance of force, visit CBC dossier, Slash as K S to see a video of the new year's Eve proposal subscribe. Itunes or your favorite podcast ass. If you like the show, please tell your friends someone know something is hosted, written and produced by David Region and mixed by sea, sulphur Fernandez. This Iraq has also produced by Chris Oak staff. Cap and executive producer of neurons are music is by Bob Wiseman with vote. Whose by Mary Market O Hara ends.
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.