« Someone Knows Something

S3 Episode 1: The Wrong Body

2017-11-06 | 🔗
In 1964, two klansmen were arrested for the murder of Dee & Moore: James Ford Seale and Charles Marcus Edwards. The charges were dropped. But Edwards is still known to be alive, and Thomas wants to meet him face to face.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a city podcast, its July twenty seventeen and I'm standing on a muddy embankment next to an old part of them mission. Snoopy River, that formed time over the past few millennia, what kind of swallows those things really I'm here with my seventeen year old Son Owen, whose being to miss city with me many times over the years, but never to this spot. We ve just come from pick wild flowers, upon the levy, the engineered Anaconda hump of earth, that protects the land along the river from flooding. It's a nice one where'd you get that
Dead, end river bans like this are called ox boughs and they form over Time I am as rivers, meander are overwhelming force of flow and volume, causing new paths and cutting off older ones. Specific river reaches ass, far North Ass, the border with Canada snaking from Minnesota, all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico today, here a place now call parkers landing it Sonny cicadas in the water. Screen and swampy and impenetrable. There are some open boats with ancient out boards floating makeshift dark. Sir repurchased logs. And there's a kind of private fishing community of muggy shacks on stilts nearby, so you want, but those flowers them or are we just put, this gets really muddy. Really fast, you're not gonna, build a walk to far so
You can put them right over here by the waters. Ed. A couple drives over in a four wheel, ATV to see what we're up to just as my son is placing his well chosen bunch of flowers onto the mud, he wave and they dont wave back. Instead, circling around to disappear back to the shacks once more I am not against would overtake them out of the container son its position to the two beautiful orange trumpet flowers, on top of his memorial bundle. The reason he wanted to come the first time I came here to this particular part of the river. The day was almost gone: the still murky water Shadows, dread filled the air with no sense of beauty and the
same feeling dread, maybe even mixed with fear has persisted over the dozen or so times I've been back stumbling over these deeply cracked Derek my flat shimmering within saxon spiders, and that residents that we give to crime scenes. Charles Eddie, Moore and Henry Hezekiah DE too. Nineteen year old african American saw this place at night back in nineteen. Sixty four. Before they were brutally killed by the White Knights of the complex clan. Their case was my first foray into investigating murder and one whose aftermath continues to this day in public and intense My personal ways but I came here indirectly blindly along a different path. Thirteen years ago. Most ours have sixty minutes,
this our seven day, This hour will report to you on the pill. The queen, the hotline, the world's greatest by master and summer in Mississippi in two thousand, for I was watching this documentary on sixteen millimeter black and white film in the canadian broadcasting corpse patients. Toronto archives, its all summer in Mississippi, and it's about the civil rights movements attempt over the summer of nineteen sixty four to register black
there is in the American South and the June twenty first murders of three civil rights workers by the coup Klux clan three months before the Mississippi Summer project began. It had one simple objective: educating the negroes of Mississippi to vote. In these three months. There have been four people shot. Fifty two beaten, two hundred and fifty arrested, thirteen churches destroyed, forty bombings and three civil rights workers slain. The case of the three would become known as my burn by its FBI, name or Mississippi earning by everyone else. The victims names James Cheney, Michael, shorter and Andrew Goodman are widely known and the United States books, movies and high school curricula have memorialize their deaths into the star spangled fabric of american history. This is the southern White Man's here. Equality for
I was watching the film made for the sea BC by one of TVS first knew This magazine and investigative programmes called this hour has seven days as part of my research for a two thousand for documentary. Then I would shoot and direct that was to look back at these AMOS clan murders. We begin. Back to Mississippi about forty years after the three civil rights workers were killed, and there was hope that a trial my finally happen, and at least one of the several clansmen responsible brought to you. There were no traces of blood or bullet holes. Those who knew initial accounting knew that the young men would not be found alive. This was the only clue. A charge station wagon in a blackberry thicket at the edge of a swamp
Chinese, corner and Goodman had been killed by a party. Similarly violent branch of the coup Klux clan, known as the White nights. And, as I watched, I discover theirs we're not the only murders around that brutal time. Baden knowledge about money we was yet in Cuba, those. Why gives came in here. This is our progress. It make it out, like the white stood a problem. Actually, we can't even get protection of people its approval of the book. They lack the love which is highway patrol they just quit. Issue This is in a body you remember when I began to search for those Mason three civil rights work when I began. Fish in Mississippi Robot, I found bodies. So I thank the just. Stop fish, those kids didn't start this We were getting killed anyway. Watch
The document tree over an optical, sixteen millimeter fires of cicadas, their shots of the. U S National Guard, Mississippi, police, volunteers and FBI, feeding, bushes, scouring swamps Choppers in boats and search lines of uniformed men in fields and then a muffled silence descends on the film his cigar, smoking, white man and shirt, sleeves fish, decomposing body parts. Out of the Mississippi River using sticks, and their bare hands. We see ribs and a femur nodded loops of wire or twine and transparent body size, bag being emptied of fetid water. This is the place close to where my son would lay as flowers more than fifty three years later.
And the lazy ever present southern droning of insects, its silenced by the pen. Trading voice of the late great CBC narrator, John draining It was the wrong body finding of a negro mail was noted and forgotten. The search was not for him. The search was two white youths and their negro friend. I stop the film and wrote down five work. Wrong body negro mail and simply forgotten this body, was not one of the three civil rights workers so who was it yeah you are listening to someone know something from CBC original podcast inside in three David.
Region revisits, his two thousand and seven documentary premisses He called case this is episode, one the wrong body. Now your talk about other your talk about people up into around all day all day, July, two thousand for heavy raindrops peltier. Across the windshield during a southern summer heatwave we had the Rhine, no control. Stanley Dear meant a man in his early seventys, is sitting in the passenger seat and conducting me on a tour of the crime. In the Shobo County, Mississippi, where the Mai burn case happened,
a place of red earth and Love Lolly Pine black churches, white churches and homes, style cooking with large certainly takes me to the jail where civil rights, workers, Cheney, shorter and Goodman were held, the back roads where they were pulled over by clansmen and murdered, and place where their bodies were buried before an FBI, informant disclosed the location. Well, after the martyrs occurred, the plan Drove up the road here where I found pond was being built, and just over the heel around her. There was where they were buried for forty four days, but in fact they re also thrown about it. I started with great fat and probably
We'd better get a move on I don't really believe a thing or day that I haven't found some way about it worked some red dragon laugh. It would just about the verandas, We call it the high water mark, a resistance to change, occurred ever lot of atrocities out over the south and the sixty in the nineteen. Sixty German was a reporter who covered the killings of the three civil rights workers.
And when he later took over as editor and publisher of than the shoulder Democrat, he began to question in editorials why Justin had never been done about anyway. They gave me fight it German passed away at eighty four in the winter of twenty seventeen and I think of how it must have been for him and all the others, white or black, whose opinions and actions strove against the prevailing terrors of the nineteen sixties. Demons work as a journal helped form the backdrop to the eventual modern trial of EDGAR re killing women to kill. The Reverend Nestor, killing them bring leader of the murders, EDGAR re Killin or the preacher, as he was known, escaped conviction back in the nineteen sixties, thanks to a hung, jury based on a single hold of one,
who reportedly couldn't bring herself to find a preacher guilty of murder Missus Allen we're coming up the home of your right, kill him well known, and it gave their either center of the whole thing he was one who made it possible go right here where the martyred occurred, MR kill it
I come by here every day when he go to town to see right where the murders occurred. The time we're almost done for the day Before finishing with Mister Damon, I have just one more question for him question, have taken to asking everyone. I talk to ensure but county. I brought along a copy The CBC documentary from nineteen sixty four, the one with the short clip about the wrong body. I wanted to know if, dear ever heard of other victims. Apart from the three civil rights workers that had been found-
Of course, the sequence here it was the wrong body finally of a negro mail with noted and forgot. The search was not for him. The search was for two white use and they negro friend So what do you make of it? Well it s not! It does not in his career may let that happen in this county tonight. There said one by one: they were looking at the Mississippi River
probably word where it occurred. I remember they did Van bodies, there are more than one body around the Mississippi River, but that oh six or eight carriageway hundred forty hundred fifty miles where that act liqueur occurred there is, would be closer to a hundred ninety miles from here. Mississippi claim them in silence smother their smiles and thereby Durban was right more than one body, had been discovered in that same section of the Mississippi River. That summer and eventually, after reading, books like Don Whitehead's attack on terror and of Mississippi journalists Jerry Mitchell's work, I learned that there wrong body I saw in the nineteen sixty four CBC film had a name Henry Hezekiah acquired D
a nineteen year old African American, from Roxy, Mississippi and that another nineteen year old, Charles any more a friend of these was found by law. Fishermen, James Balls, in the same section of river, the day before, on July, twelve nineteen sixty four twelve thirty man came in and said he he added ripe and vision has now taken on water. This body, police, chief, James Rogue enough to Lula Louisiana, was interviewed by the press. The day
Charles Moors Partial remains were discovered. We found it better, passing body upon it, and what did you do that we are ready and geared to the family remained founding Roger Stretch. To key one. In addition, other remains an hour had had an affair with that condition they are about
raising our usual about the remains of air was ended, strain tat around one ran ankles tat. You thought you were any better than the other way round. The torso of Henry Hezekiah DE was found, the fall one day further downriver, but some of the room, best of Charles, more and Henry DE would not be and by Navy divers for another three months when Henry the internal more disappeared on May. Second, nineteen sixty four known
national guard was called in no extra detachments of FBI agents were sent. The tragic fact wasn't noted in any newspaper their disappearance and deaths would not immediately be inscribed into the amount reckon historical lexicon. When more indeed remains, were found. Two months later in July, during the frantic search for the three civil rights workers, it back, impossible, not to notice, at least for a short time. Just a few days ago, too bad is out of the river. A ban workers. Here's Charles Everts he's the brother of the late in W C p, leader mega rivers, who was assassinated in his driveway by white supremacist, Byron De La back with in late spring nineteen sixty three they found that they were not. Yes, you are right when you say that,
America further odious another two negroes wiki or forward as it is I've got a minute, Much of our regret, what had happened, but had it not been the two whiteboard and wrong. I'm here the old man, yes, three Montenegro being kill amiss. The federal government was also made immediately aware of the discovery of d and more bodies, a search through the Texas based Archive. President Lyndon be Johnson, turned up a discussion between Johnson and his attorney General Robert F Kennedy. Here Kennedy speaks first, Mr President, you dont think how are you gonna? Do we give yet immeasurably thing? Did you see we ve got part of a body down? Evidently I just hate Britain, and I have some contact with the evident leads, not enable three
I get the impression that on paper had probably there they at least to be eliminated there, so I think that the one that we should keep those families advised because of a tough- and, unlike you read about this stuff, paper. The President Johnson also discussed the discovery of more indeed with FBI director J Edgar Hoover Johnson speaks first asked about a cobra gallery. Rubbed power by the body at that about. No, that is not correct body would have been found
yesterday intended to play again a fine boy out on a more equal college down in the city in contact with the college. This morning we learned that boy whose body we found yesterday and which has developed an identified Charles Edward, more body, has just been found within the left out. Only the law of the body was found a way to try to get them, but that is the case with the more able to put into place that is at the core of the ETA. Rule forty seven one of the colored did occupied but wrong that have no connection with the three missing.
For that we are primarily globally Another great haven't civil rights attributes. Can now FBI would eventually determine that d and more had been killed by the White nights. The same My own group that murder, Cheney, shorter and Goodman accept two months earlier and in a far more brutal fashion, in fact, it could be said that the killing of d and more representative first bloody salvo Declan fired that spring of nineteen. Sixty four foreshadowing, the coming war on the civil rights workers of so called freedom summer. Just weeks later, the White Mississippi's hatred of race mixing, is based not only on the fear of assassination but on the fear of a book.
Ethical revolution. Negroes in that state, constitute forty two percent of the population in some counties, negroes outnumber What's four out of every ten Mississippi ends are negro, yet only one in eight. He is able to vote if the Nigger Those were to obtain equal voting rights. They could control Mississippi. This is the southern White man sphere. Equality for neighbour Let me turn in August, two thousand for I began searching for a deal more family members, with the help of some CBC colleagues Sweeping Southwest Mississippi with dozens and dozens of phone calls
but nobody seemed to know Henry D or his family and the one cousin we haven't. They turned up, who knew too Charles Moore, and now do that he had still living brother named Thomas did not know. Tat MRS number or current whereabouts. Let's keep him, I don't know. I just think myself, was understood reporter, but I'm on pursuing story of them visits we had interviewed. Was Jerry Mitchell in July, two thousand four for our seas, see documentary about the Mississippi burning case Jerry is base. In Jackson, Mississippi and rates for the Clarion Ledger newspaper? He was injured mentally, seeking and often spurring action on civil rights era cases including my version of IE, all these even though the wrong kind of different cases I kind of your models, one story in which there is a well just.
Basically the story of injustice, story of eight people who basically kill people just the color of their skin, just because they want to black Americans field about things like that, it's just amazing! I discovered the jerry had also written about d and more in ninety. Ninety nine and two thousand So in August, two thousand, for I contacted him again and Mitch gave me what he said was Thomas Moors phone number. It Colorado area code. Many cars to that number later, with no answer, I thought the number might be wrong throughout the winter, in spring of two thousand five. I would continue to look for the families of tea and more it had become a personal mission, then almost eleven months after some of the details of Charles Moors murder? I finally
located Thomas, his brother, retired and living COS quietly in Colorado, Springs about. Kilometers south of Denver I sent him courier letter and that letter Thomas would tell me later had sat on the mantle of his home for weeks, while Thomas decided what to do with me finally, after nearly a year iris If the message that I missed a phone call, oh hi. Mr today. Version calling from CBC in Toronto. Wasn't here. Take a cab for Thomas agree, to send me some documents and newspaper clippings he'd collected about the case now How much time had passed. It was clear to me in these initial conversations that the murder of his brother, Charles and Henry DE who a friend of Thomas's had become central to who he was and.
How are we to find himself, what is Beaver as we speak, John Go IL. I get back down where I used to, but you know it's still hard to two the report that we got. From the way, now go way back Brown. And I made it through what you don't get a desktop- that yeah right away, but no you got job market better out of the terrible parameters, our short term. Marcus Edwards was a member of the White Knights of the coup Klux clan, one of the men who was implicated for his involvement in
The brutal murder of tea and more the white Eight were known to be the most violent clan group and the United States at the time and had form In January, nineteen sixty four as a large splinter group of Mississippi Clansmen from what then known as the original knights of the coup Klux clan, I asked Thomas how old, Charles Edward, would be now about government Ok. So suddenly, I've got a few years time we got born again. I explained to you that without it Thomas had sent me a nine page FBI document that he had received from Jerry Mitchell several years earlier that laid out what the FBI destination had determined happened to deal more that day, the report was detailed and damning, but if even part of it was true
why all these years later had there never been any convictions. In the case, the documents produced more questions than answers. For sugar. I read about the world when I get back yeah. I know not finished I can either either by a long shot, but I look at the stuff and not be a call back, and I want to work with you on this excellent document. I was originally asked to cover the trial of EDGAR re killing the preacher who helped organ, The Mai burn murders as a follow up to the filming. Taught in Mississippi the summer before, in July, two thousand for racial rightward much later kill. It was accused of doing that.
But the story of Thomas Moore and the DE more case had a deeper pole and once almost agreed in principle to move forward I set about the story to anyone who would listen a c b c. Finally, I was given the go ahead for a short piece of ten minutes: duration that would paint a picture of the victims, Family member, finally being able to look back at the case after forty years. Not a fan of Flying since I experienced two near crash landings in the canadian Arctic, I look parental van and drove to Colorado. At the end of June, two thousand five, Thomas lives in a split level home with double garage in the suburbs of Colorado Springs. The nearby Fort Carson was the last place he was stationed before his retirement from the military
a scene of clean cool air with blue Sky and Cheyenne Mountain towering in the distance, a government Mississippi Agus or our rule of law of the sea, but also, in other words, worse this w. I do feel safer from everything absolutely do. I will not say so. Thomas spent thirty years in the military and retired as an E nine command sergeant major the highest Frank, that a non commissioned officer can achieve He led me into the house through his garage inside it. Like a well organised war memorial offered all about walls neatly arranged with framed. Photos of Thomas in Uniform Military saw tee.
Since metals promotions and more. He gives me the full tour this of the vehicle flag, that we are when the bell we had, we collect the stove offer. The latter was key Thomas is about us all. American, as you might imagine, the phrase implies a former football quarter. Vietnam, war that action we born on the fourth of July nineteen, forty three in He'd veil, Mississippi those the Nebraska bill, the garage to her ten use it water. What may appear now for operation from LA December, one thousand nine hundred and sixty five to December, one thousand nine hundred and sixty six. Jose recap Atone squad leader, so
who was constantly in contact with looking for the enemy during the time, so I stayed on the field as long as ninety days at one time without coming in so this, what kind of give it to me, because I was successful and what I did before they leave now Bush patrol caption of killing the enemy. As I got talking to Thomas, it became clear that is involved. Ten, the Vietnam WAR was a kind of source of pride for him. But it was also a source of consternation couched in the recognition that, while serving his country did not always serve him. Oh dear, what I'll accident I got down to them. I went what he told me to go: what idea what they told me to do, being a good american girl, you know where I thought it was fighting for what we believe in freedom, justice for everybody. That's what we were trying to do
as yet my problem more than seven and it was oh now, no bar one step forward and do it in order that their that bothers me many of the clansmen who were involved in the murders of de in more had act. Being in the military. Some in active service in Korea or World WAR, to others. Between those active periods and some of the tactics and skills, the clan used at the time against black and white citizens were required through their military training, It's of organizing and hierarchy, communication and secrecy, and me are simply bomb making an unequivocal violence, but these clansmen had finished. Military service by the sixties and Thomas was just starting his they were. I here about the american dream,
a family where you know our muff Some way for my phone mall, they walk around free living on feel that I'm fine The umbrella dreams will we. Fourthly, took me: you'll get a memo dream home at all that cancer causing job more. You do not handled the right. Silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, O Brien, as she attempts to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret, The seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Rico and her family as they discuss their past for the first time, what emerged was a much larger story.
Here: silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast Thomas begin, showing me photos he saved over the years pictures of him self and army fatigues shirt off dog tags, the beaches and jungle of Vietnam. On time one of the photos, catches my eye its black and white of Thomas with a friend standing at attention and cap and uniform. This picture here was taken for port, lose out or may the seller to nineteen sixty four, where this bridge was taken. I have been a basis, from the eighth of April, the Meda soldiers or our had not been informed that child more my brother and he D,
Well, they were missing sometime between their days of April. And the twenty ninth of April. I received a letter from Charles more stated that he was out of all calm college, which is the that he was a tenant. And he will tell me where I came home. Why. So in this time of all will I went back home. Proud to be a member of a soldier where my uniform, that is what I found out tat he had been business, has made us up. The two weeks- that's all I know. No one is in no way that nobody will talk to me it was so many rumours.
Job more heavily head. Ran away and went to lose out on the before job. Even the share of Franklin Counter Support I told my mother that he had gone down and lose Alan physically, seeing those two young man job more here today which in fact he had not the two weeks that I was home on leave, I was frustrated. I was angry and nobody talk to me. Nobody would tell me anything if I was quiet. Once is too weak leave was over Thomas left Mississippi and was stationed in Fort heard, Texas on July twelve nineteen sixty four Or Charles Moors body was discovered.
Became Odin, though they watching tv they found to waters and the Mississippi River. Later I was in for later that day or night also form Mama commendable. There they are identified. One about is that of Charles anymore Miller, flew out of food or taxes the next day, the jaw my family members in and prepare for the future of Charles anymore, invest when my listing well. My main concern was not about me.
You're concerned about the effect it will have Thomas was two and a half years old and Charles was only one when their father died. Thomas s, father had come to Franklin County. The early thirties to look for work, He was also named Charles, but people called him Charlie. He became a lumbermen and employed men to cut trees and fashion them into rail ties. Thomas never really knew his father, but when he died his mother, there may be more, was forced to sell all the lumber equipment and pale outstanding bills, leaving the family with nothing. Maisie had largely raised her two boys on her own yellow later that are raised to young male without a follow on the welfare working in the community in the wide later
kitchen home, get those two high, we long welfare to allow one market. So how would the Devil child more in the way he died? A system is death how they go affect this summer. Nineteen sixty five I was told- and I went It was not a sore about all morning. I had dreams. I nightmare House by the Devin. It was a concern that he died, but my focus at that point was only surviving and, coming back there's a dilemma, the name, nor did he know well go on. She didn't know. I was gone. The war. I didn't tell her that cause she found out. She gave me a prodigal so ass. I am. I.
The best I motivated, did my job and I came back to think you would to return. All my life young life, I dream by two months of alike, to fall: I like to read more vegetable can do they know how to do tat bill we're from close down the job more. My brother lawn Maybe you know we lose three people, they loved each other care about it. So you never thought about not spinning and live with these three. What Mamma deals in vain China raise two well thought of young men thousand vain, so outcome, Akron Guest, couldn't take it by going back
no problem, our plywood black brown. Why no doubt about the way that even now go back and live there? one. More thing Thomas wants to show me: garage water, most important Boss mobile. From a hook on the ceiling. Thomas pulls down a heavy steel, framed faded, red bicycle from nineteen fifties. Law bothers Baskerville, nineteen, fifty first ass. It will
We oughta Mabel brain by gross, MR, so this this was his by most time I'll do the pillar and in an who sit back. You come down. He rattled Helma We ran without it how's our loon control. At all. We better job, he jumped off about the same time. We want to drop at all over this problem with the first experience we had been really will have to go, but we should do this by young forty
fifty, we were about to your way house and they would pull away, was taught hitchhiking how we should go from point. A to point b, hijack rise, there too ill to his death, because you had taken the morning. He was picked up. Inside the House Thomas goes upstairs and comes down with a cracked leather, Bree case that cannot closed so full of paper. Their spilling out the sides
These are some of their peoples, article that have committed ourselves to more jobs, more vaccinating system for one of the other two Charles Moccasins still live in the other perpetrators, as it turns out, there were seven in total, we're all reportedly dead. This include James Ford Seal, the other man. And along with Edwards, who had been arrested for the crime in November, nineteen sixty four but Edward, Seal were almost immediately released on five thousand dollars veil and nobody else had ever been charged, Edward was still alive, but it was difficult to figure out when exactly see or may have died Ellie Times Richard Saran, are reported in two thousand to that seal died. The previous year, Jerry
She told me in August two thousand for that seal was dead ends. He'll son, James Junior, told Associated Press reporter on breed that his dad had died. Six or seven months ago and that would have been around March of two thousand five, so Thomas's focus. Our focus was to be on Charles Marcus Edwards fits of Charles model was he is the one one of the two. There was arrested and turn look silly than have available.
This is the last and all the pressure that level jobs at a more mobile. This picture here was taken. Nineteen sixty three the world nor the President. I know that we took together. The picture shows Thomas and his brother. Charles aged nineteen and eighteen, both smartly dressed, leaning up against a white car Thomas's square jarred, muscled and serious Charles is not us. Rocky smiling easily into the camera, with a sense of openness about him later I'd me, Thomas's son, Jeffrey who's, a dead ringer for his uncle Charles. When I look at this picture, thou see
talk more weight. Young man wanted. We suffer a ambitious omega three people, fair respectably, so this the proposal also teenage to grateful ballplayer, our core begging, the south. We played on a great team, so this is approval. Remember so here we are, benefits of heavily for thou know no one help peculiarity job more frank and then Thomas fines. What he's been looking for this? A lot of beer document dated don't work. Twelve nineteen to fire. This nine pages that I hail of
possibly a thousand praise investigative report of the brutal murder of child more in Amity, Thomas pulls out a summary FBI report that is largely based on the findings of a confidential informant a person numbered as Jean thirty by the FBI there's names of clan. Details of what happened to deal more information about a search by Navy divers and about subsequent investigations carried out by both the FBI and the local state, police, known as the Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol or Mhz S p. According to documents, this is happened on May. Second, nineteen sixty four around mid. A Charles, more and Henry DE began hitchhiking near the scream shop in the small town of Meat Ville Mississippi in any way out
the only way, I know for sure Why all the actual pick it up with these two negro boy? What classier, damsel and Charles Clyde Seal was sixty three in nineteen sixty four and the senior leader or in clan language. The exalted cyclops of the Franklin County, White nights group or clever as it was known and Clyde, was the father of James Ford Seal or they. My brother was kill it with his anger with afraid helicopter day outside and eyes. Grave store, move The civil clansmen picked him up of the way. The F b I heard from their informant that James for seal picked d and more up in his White Volkswagen Beetle, claiming to
the revenue agent hunting for bootleggers? He then drove them. Deep to the how much had a national forest a national park that surrounds meet veil a bullet saw him therefore taught in nearby national for The informant indicated that both seal and Edwards participated in the restraining and why, ping of d and more but Aim. Seal was also interrogating. Them had been rumours circulating amongst clansmen that a black movement under way to smuggle guns into the area at this stage, a so called muslim uprising de in more had nothing to do with such movements, but eventually in an attempt to end their torture. The name of a reverend from Roxy. Mississippi was cried out the reverend I'd breaks. One of them said might be storing guns in the basement of his church.
While Briggs was well known in the area to be a fiery speaker, no guns were ever found in the church. And using the Reverend name didn't stop the torture. There were driven blooded about the courtroom to them. This rule they were chained to an old jeep more that into the midst of will on a charge. More law have was ever found by would hit the other. My brother, John, more, but a billboard given here for a birthday with another he'll renown.
Our boats are more than ever. There was clear because they were black according to the door. I came at once. The bodies of more indeed were found Charles Edward it's a thirty one year old worker at a large Natchez paper mill became nervous. Clyde, see El, the clever leader, felt that Edwards was too Talking too much and threatened him. By saying that he didn't think the clan had enough money to raise his kids and support his wife, The market is still lab at Millville Missus Sutton,
at the time, even with the amount of detail evident in this nine page summary, the district attorney of Franklin, County Lennox Foreman, did not feel that sufficient evidence existed to tat the case forward to a grand jury in the United States. The grand jury is a precursor to trial and, at the end of them, indictments are usually handed up for The end of the nine page FBI report quote investigator. Gwynn core summarised in Mr Foreman, orally, the result of certain phases of the investigation to date? He was also in hundred the admissions made by subjects James Steel and Charles Edwards, following their arrests on November six. Nineteen sixty four. So despite ample evidence and FBI informant and admissions made by seal and Edward to the highway patrol following their arrest. The state
still wasn't interested in pressing charges. Something wasn't adding up this investigator Gwynn CORE, whose quoted here would be someone worth talking too, but first I have to find out if he was still alive promise and I had upstairs to a guest room that now serves a storage there's, something else that he wants to show me. Those, though, won't just or a medium sized liver action, hunting rifle and it's pretty good shape. About this is one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight. The reason I bought it was a goal and get revenge for the murder of Charles Moore and Henry D. Five rod ruled in the civil. I kept my revolve around the sea there, too
I just I just hope. I see five or six of them in the road trying to block me. I'm going to take three of my with me you know that hope it assumed this. If I do this isn't the last time. The Thomas would tell me about his detailed plans for revenge against those who killed his brother, but every Single time it comes up in conversation, Thomas's, quick to credit, his mother Maisie for convincing him not to follow through with these plans. After the film the jeweler, I actor What do you want me to do as if you leave this and go to golden, nor with Justice Our makes some time right now to allow opera corral plug your cue,
All that is what will make some time right. I'll go off one to four. Looked emerges. Assad. Don't do that. She said a man or the people that had something to do with charge. More death will be brought to justice by great make. So it was a first rate attire, I'll make a promise that I wouldn't do that, and I do not personally making some so we'll talk, hills, car like our sole Charlie, the more because in high school I was there Football you fill out war run, they interfere for here Raw Ryanair live here. I was always there too, but this time I do
Over the years, a wise wisdom, The sad and laid it down and suggested. That's what I intend to do this with the question that was all right now to go round in the civil and the people know and seek some ass if from there to help us get this case, both adjust. Ten minute documentary or not, we plan to go back down to Mississippi to track down. Speak to everyone and anyone who might
something about the case. They there you're so small possibility the words of twelve hour day so that they can mobilise, there's quick, but they always the somewhat again. I can inform you that we are on the way you know said they Gabby wakeful incalculable they'll do not about zeal based Kiowa these days they d they uneducated, We'll do anything unless they got a crown. In the year since I last visited Shobo county in two thousand for to look at the miner. In case much had happened. The state had moved forward with its case against preacher, EDGAR re killing the leader or a grand wizard of the White Knights of the coup Klux Clan SAM Bowers had once been hurt. To say that killin
was the main instigator behind the murders of the civil rights were curse, Chinese Warner and Goodman. On January, six, two thousand and five Cuban was arrested and charged with three counts of murder and on June twenty first two thousand. I've. Forty one years to the day after the murders were committed, a noose jurors had reached a verdict of guilty of manslaughter Tom and I watched as afterwards, family members of the victim spoke to the media and just like for decades before. The wrong bodies still haunted the Mississippi burning case as stated game.
Chinese brother Ben Cheney, the F B, I described the guys. Like me, I was a young man in rivers and lakes in Mississippi, and I think that the state of Mississippi should be held accountable today should identify these people were embracing closer together for the result of killings. Trial, may bode well for our coming trip to Mississippi, but getting killings. Conviction had been a long long stretch of nearly impassable wrote to get there as it turned out. The prosecution was successful. On three charges of manslaughter that is a lesser charge than murder and one without fear. I thought or Maoist connected to it, but manslaughter stock with killing and the conviction happened after forty one years,
killing was sentenced to sixty years in prison. I hope that I have the chance to meet y'all tomorrow, cuz they were. I just want to ask him a couple questions. Why who was here when the founding father created duck a reserve in the tunnel. All men are created. Equal then said the calls of color. All men are created equal, that's what this is all. I wanted to learn it in school. That is found the teaching of what they had an idea in my life motor row. To has right. Possible and go to college degree of uncertainty created all our forces not about my life is great because, what's our morsel me
It is a lie that he will be. There is no doubt that he will be a Phd retards on universal poverty across some worsen super tunnel that Charlie more able than that. We hear that ambition. He hid a desire out. I don't have to attack. But that about these look at this gave their lives this guy Charm Office every day of my life. I look at his picture of a child more pitcher and I ask the same question why? Why and I will have to explain it.
I hope we can gain a no sweat to still to two oral answer to me. This have high. It's not gonna happen I'm not going to seek revenge on him. I want to see him in jail. That's why I want to see. I want to see him spend the rest of his life, warned about how it would have been had he not there that I want his family to go visit him. That's what I want, and I want mississippi- do something by Hello
I don't care, I swear loading up the van getting ready to leave Jerry Mitchell, the reporter from Jackson, Mississippi Cars, guess what I'm doing right now alone the vat on the head. In this way, we can argue about whether the left that America Mitchell wants to get a statement from Thomas about a story. He's writing about other civil rights era. Cold cases would also be in contact with him to speak about our plans, for the investigation will dry. Do it right back. Nineteen sixty four in the minds of people, the black and white. What did I'm here because I'm sitting here is something I didn't know that I'll never here before. So this is going to be a great opportunity for us to do that and go
heavy you're wrong home, yellow our poor Wilhelm him Friday at ten o clock. I believe so I'm fired up. Lower where the cardinal hot, loud and Mozilla and we there we go Yeah, we'll call we're getting good set up? no more so without asylum can build it you don't know. So how solid can do that s? The I did good talk until I'm glad you call okay, then we'll talk to you later bye. I think we're both feeling, energetic and optimistic that we're going to make progress
case, but the call from Jerry Mitchell reminds me of something else. Many journalists, some of them legendary, had tried to investigate this case in the past. First Tony Moreau of Newsday, who interviewed several people in the Southwest Mississippi area in nineteen, Only three: seventy four for a story about the clan he spoke to people who may have known about the dean, more murders and even remembers interviewing James Seal at the end of a driveway seal was wearing a policeman's uniform and kept his hand on his revolver throughout the interview. Morose says see. I was at one point, acting as a sheriff deputy according to reports But Moreau, never wrote the story. Then many years later, Mississippi, native and Newsday writer Stephanie Solve, took a crack at it. She spoke to many people, including Charles Marcus Edwards, in an extensive fur
time in depth interview where he denied any involvement in the killing of tea and Moor. Then the case was three probed in ninety ninety nine two thousand through the efforts of Jerry Mitchell and Conny tongues. B C television newsmagazine, twenty twenty working with a team led by canadian producer, Harry Phillips, dont, Simon of Mississippi Academic, assisted with the investigation and pointed out that the killing of de in more had possibly occurred on federal land. The how much national forest, thus potentially triggering federal jurisdiction Mitchell had obtained FBI files on the DE more case and Lake Tony Moreau before him had also spoken to James Seal.
The identity of a deem were case. Clan informant was discovered, but incredibly state and federal officials at the time decided not to proceed, and the case was officially closed again by the: U S: Department of Justice, civil rights division in June, two thousand three A large part of me was worried that I'd be just another on this list. A canadian filmmaker getting Thomas's hopes up way to leave him disappointed the worst case could live long tunnel. So we don't we don't you dig Just get it. We just gotta find the right the right person, the right, rocked tunnel over itself on the other than there is no doubt about. And somebody Mississippi Franklin count May the rocks matters
you know something about this case, so I'm convinced that higher in all that we our misfortune and we can't faster than hopeless others. Theo come out somewhere. I will call was laid all day. I could tell me about it. Some governments are now so is all I see this as being a false thing. We do not think is very positive. That this kind of work had been doing ten years ago five years ago,. Three years ago before James Seal Benzene, onto invested it competitive, so he's taken. Forty yearbook I like to look at forty years of wisdom, knowledge
technologies will matter. We do not care about their so is always says. Mayors is all this was my weapon, how can subsist Thomas says goodbye to his wife May Lee and we hit the road we leave successor. We, we all, take you where you think of going there. The great idea over every thought of carrying it. Their work is unwise.
Thank you for your kindness. All this will take you back to packing together form a key well we're on the roads in Mississippi to New Mexico. Oklahoma taxes lose our. Then this there were excited to be back in the sand mountain about two weeks feelin way than we have
something and ran to the murders of charge of all my brother and data. Just I will feel ok, I got it. I got over them. We had off down highway twenty five toward New Mexico. It should take us less than twenty hours to get our destination Mississippi. Emission, a clan murder a longshot together. You have been listening to episode, one, the wrong body.
Visit CBC dossier, slash escape ass to watch the nineteen sixty four documentary summer in Mississippi and their videos associated with the case and subscribe to escape s on your favorite podcast. App Someone know something is hosted, written and produced by David Region, The series is also produced by Chris Oak Stiff Camp, I'm old damage, Yunus Kim. An executive producer, This new Ronnie and mixed by vessel Fernandez. Our theme song is terrorized by Willy King now you're talking about other. Your talk about people are bound to arise,
a day day. Hello, hey, I got asked you to do something for me. They haven't received the call from the FBI in Washington, DC car from this be guided in Washington and he's ten days
That will never an FBI. Thus, I guess I got my pages that if we are then investigates all I want you to go. Get all coppers. In fact, to the appeal for more CBC original pod casts go to sea BC. Dont see a slash original podcast.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.