« Someone Knows Something

S3 Episode 2: The Klansman

2017-11-06 | 🔗
Why did authorities close the case? David & Thomas speak with the FBI and local District Attorney to try to find out. They also meet Henry's sister Thelma and Joe Lee, one of the last to see Dee & Moore alive. Thomas makes a shocking discovery.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This? Is a CBC podcast. What are those just a girl out of town, you re doing. It's too. To the Washington public Affairs presses attention, Neil Shelf from Thomas more, and they were written but so please fire twelve man of FBI investigation into the matter. A child in a more clarity guys you, where are you?
loose to the call of leadership We are at least as that there have been reports of the investigation body of we are therefore palm can give us an interview I'll when we tell them that we are not pages about investigating report. Then he can agree that we send anyone looking to us all. That's what we're done. We effect in this report to the F B. I wasn't you are listening to someone know something from CBC original part guests in He's in three David region revisits, his two thousand and seven documentary Mississippi called case, teeming
with Thomas more to investigate the murders of his brother, Charles, more and Henry De Tuna, continually, who were killed by the coup clicks clan in nineteen sixty four. This is episode to the clans me now. You talk about other your talk about people out there. All day. I'm gonna go you see what I stormy alone now at and arrest stop intact. I'm guessing up Thomas, whose stretching his legs points after the east to oblique foreboding cloud,
the kind of storm that approaches forever. As you drive the kilometers away under this big mid western sky, that Mississippi, that's that's where we are going to go via doesn't business. Thomas and I sure the driving on the eighteen hour journey from Colorado Springs to. Cancun county. Mississippi. Through rain and Hale, and even tornadoes I'd film, Thomas flipping, through the memories of the nineteen year old brother, Charles and friend Henry and his mother Maisie. He told me about growing up in Mississippi driving a mule car, plying fields and gardens of white people stories about his army life, picking up pieces of a friend blown up by a mine being a Huey helicopter, Gunnar his killing,
North Vietnamese and then beings. Put on by anti war protesters, as he returns Vietnam, the guy All of finding Charles Marcus Edwards brought us together to people who prob boy, maybe wouldn't have chosen each other's collaborators, her possibly even friends under any other circumstance at the threshold all that the unknown in a civil war it's a murder narrative. The mission brought us together, I love you I know it's also widely alone. Now Well now I gotta live close to them too little about us die
we'd be going to visit Jerry Mitchell and Jackson in just a couple of weeks. The idea was that the first I'm supposed to wipe out the Irish they knew all alone out. I got out to deal with two men of white. Guys were resolved to do? Why had to respect them, as in the village tools are reared man, this guy. Why? God? You knew! I was scared, First message is getting up here. Was I got a little too. How do I was only overcome warms up You know I was better. The Vietnam WAR was the first major conflict where U S, forces were not segregated, black and white. Were me.
To work alongside each other towards common military goal, but still trust tissues persisted for Thomas, but you know I was there. I get the famous Are you telling me everything you know, you just turn another self ass. Now about what your hands up what do you mean Ronnie Harpers them long serving district turning in the area of Mississippi, were going Thomas, has met him before, but come Way from those meetings not wholly satisfied and we'll be speaking to him again soon Charlotte, There has not been more tragic, they happen I recalled that other fragment dollar, larger movies. I've seen some like to signal frankly, town
Cloud is about to come back and said the roughest Red STAR told you that's got it. The FBI calling, hopefully the documents we facts on her job, their memories, about the dean more case As MR just call me, ok, ok! Well, I walked out on the line and others
Don't you have these pages to me was determine this wasn't situation and therefore we really nothing be involved when you have to go to the levels of state right, but that that's exactly what I need someone to tell me is that that there was an FBI in our investigation and that now there's nothing going along with a case. I need someone actually happen you know when they decided that there was not enough events to this decision from way back or just recently. All right then, and the Department of Job file. As recently as have gathered re heard, when the United Nations on the cylinder would plums more he's the brother of war, the more
victims and I think you might have a question for I got involves several years ago and now that's when I see the man pages of the available for them when I told a hop about, and that is the district attorney. The big effort was that this happened in homer children as the forest. Anywhere near one Alleghany back. It happened in two or three different locations. What's a moving and they will ever any added in terms of actual way. What will build Rio Report, sir? That there was?
Ben Franklin calmly and Tiggle nearby, the homeless children less affords a big severely and then the bottles were transported for MRS Sippar caused a river into lose out, dropped into the midst of That was our forty one years ago and this in the report. And I'm bored while I'm in Mississippi. Get the other now other than that. I won't pages that there be our talks about a lot more about this case We turned our current situation. I was decided caused. Is it possible for us to talk to any? There is no investigating agents
variety of former and special agents of the FBI, because there's no one around for one thousand nine hundred and sixty five okay? How do I get in touch with society? I get the number the Department of Justice, publicity and a society of former special agents of the FBI, and then Deborah gives us the now for the sitting, U S attorney and Jackson, a man and who will become very important for this case later on, to clarify those at least two levels of justice that can potentially help in the case of the state level. There's district attorney, Ronnie Harper and at the federal level there U S attorney done lantern. Ok, you would be the first in the decision making process with Ngos in this case and done
I am in any when it was our. So we lanterns predecessor, Brad Pilot, who did not move forward on a federal Kay In two thousand, I get rage downturn in minor later I contacted former. U S attorney Brad Packet to ask him why the case did not proceed in two thousand, I'm afraid it all. We looked into that during my teenagers attorney. My memory is very scarce on that particular case, and I really can't share any specific. For that reason. I say: do you recall why didn't go forward and love and why the case very generally, but but not and anything that academic lives. Now sorry,
and the most eminent something that happened right, but that made it not go forward. I don't recall, maybe pilot successor in the rule of U S, attorney done. Lantern would be more helpful. Then again, maybe not I remember these early phone calls with FBI and other officials were like talking to characters from a cask. A novel on self consciously bureaucrats looking down with a measure of corporate condescension, but nevertheless holding out the promise of a next step, no matter how frustrating are confusing. Ok, love More questions about Cuba Many new call me thanks very much. I like it help me bottom line. If we go, what was said here without being able to pinpoint the place or places of the crime, where d and more were beaten, for example,
Jurisdictional issue seem to have been at least part of the reason. Things have moved on the case in the modern era, but Thomas and I fell even then that there might must be more to the story of what I'm regular we're on the ground, so just a day. We are continuing to pursue the Mississippi backwards, The Mississippi is ill told and I, like you made, as you know, Tyler without doubt. Well maybe you biosphere, therewith Mr Blanton, I make an appointment for us to see U S attorney done lantern the following week and on the evening of
Do I seventh two thousand five. We crossed the Mississippi River at the small town of Vidalia Louisiana and arrive. Matters Mississippi, Naturally, I was one of the powerhouses. Cotton, plantation, industry and culture from the time the cotton gin in the late, seventeen hundreds all the way, the early twentieth century, this area of Missis Debbie surrounding matches and until the Louisiana also an area of lumber and oil production and historically a shipping hub for traffic along the Big River was a main focal point of the clan and clan violence. From the mid nineteen fifties onward. Tourists from all over the world still flock here to visit the palatial, Anti Belgium plantation homes that you, to be run by the cotton bosses and service by african slaves.
These plantation mansions with names like done, leave and Monmouth our surrounded by opulent grounds, though larger neighborhoods around them can be quite run down. It's a city that has had many episodes of white on black and even way on white terror explosions, horrific killings, beatings, marches. And boycotts of all kinds Was it this more well figures for London. Some Cato often claimed responsibility, sober explosion, underground system, these one dollar dick was they know to counter this book is known to have been. A torrent. Grab spoke to cowards, further
It has also spoken register will watch tower their standing their ground of guests. Here we are the tuna for a central unit was network Cato. There are some similarities in today's out. Cato the sixties, KKK. From the beginning, Thomas and I had planned that we would try to find and then meet with Charles Marcus Edwards, whom Thomas takes two calling simply Marcus and ask him why his name was in the FBI files Tommy said never met Edwards before and he and I knew him only through a grainy picture in the photocopy of Stephanie cells December eighteen. Ninety eight Newsday article words then in the sixties, looked in good shape and Thomas I did. He wanted to speak to him now or forever languish in gilt. We all.
I want to interview others who may have been too afraid to come forward with information at the time retired. Loggers who worked with white in the woods old bootleggers. Sold moonshine to whites. Even the area, as few remaining black activists from the civil rights era, and it would be the first time that the case would be public. They discussed in any community wide orbit and the first time the Thomas wood. The white about a period, but before we do any of that. We wanted to experience the case on the ground visit the play. This is where we knew things happened. They lag vowed to crack the wheel. And very early. The first morning, after our arrival, we headed to meet Ville just a tool. Any minute. Drive from that is to start that process, while We are very conscious of being seen by locals. We also want to stay,
was a visualization of where the hitchhiking began. But the sidelines might have been. Thomas walks, quickly along the road towards the edge of town, even holds out his thumb and our position myself at various points behind him to see what can be seen. It's very early? So there's almost nobody around in the morning light is perfect, but neither so sure this approach is really getting us anywhere. Nor are they have finally collar. No, that I'm in town greater Malta was combine is ideal,
all right, then I'll do most every plug job at Java materials, Marcus, Edwards, does not drive by and we decide to move out of sight sovereign wealth funds around the world, over there course of the next. Many days and months and years. We speak to people and go to places that help us visualize the case doesn't it.
They really major component heresy, Julie. Rawlins is a friendly figure, set man, bald gray beard and glasses. Thomas was the this man at Jolie's, these wedding and once were settled jollies kitchen table the too slow. Into the easy shorthand of old friends for whom years apart or meaningless, Jolie was report. Play one of the last people to see Charles Moore and Henry Dee before they were picked up by the clan on May. Second, one thousand nine hundred and sixty four in Meadville on Saturday made a second. I was Doin Russia, sharpen Harlan, just store maybe I'll Mississippi. For my mother and when I went into the store I sought,
two of my classmates Charles, more in Henry De La La thank the ban. The day was Getting other store was everybody who we have these big soldiers. They will call good must have they were sixteen. And we used to get one of the men most time, Honey Bonn that was our favorite thing was our Big Solon, Holly, Barton S, both of them at hand. So we hung outside the store for a few minutes. You know just kidding around because whose teenager kids and- I hadn't seen him for a while. He had, I think, if I'm not mistaken, I just returned from Chicago. Tell me a little bit of boat Charles and then tell me about the things that you remember, but O'Charley's type of guy, hitting you always like to do things to make. People laugh when he was like a little funny guy. Who did he play on the football team the center on the football team? I think the biggest
me, and I think I will buy what a hundred sixty pounds then an Arab out ahead. Big players and we used always run trick plays owner. And now we used to cheat on the test is like a robotic, Do we really will be at that also so good. It wasn't for teaches, could even catches door, and none of us that hung in a room never read really did anything to be in trouble with nobody. Here was a guy. He, I guess by him, wants Chicago with some who you used to tell us. He was silly slick. He had a lot of things that he would try to take advantage of us with a we see him and you know which country boys. You can't beat us and stuff like that. But You know I was never an old hand. Gonna be anti and problems in this a lot of on just with, we all just did a moment educated would do
when Henry and Charles spot a jolly at the store, Joe LISA. As they asked him to give them a ride home. The asked me, which way was I wanted. I was gonna, walk to the red and white store that will just on the edge of town and they so well come on a drop us out at a focus of man. I would be more than clear to us what my father got me: restricted, Dakota, backing archaic, while the citizen is one, ok drop us up at the store we got up to the store, I dropped him out and they want to cross the street to the gas station and I went into the supermarket and do some sharpening when I came out They were standing there and I too am I catch up with him later, because you know where she was going to hang. Alabin all said that Saturday night and that was the last time that I actually saw them ass station, was just a short walk away from the tasty freeze. Where Henry
and Charles were ultimately picked up. How hitchhiking work did that where we live animals, small and almost Everybody in old black white, whatever new each other made definite Luna Keys and you're, not ass. You would I'm gonna call it stopped because it was common bay and most term you get in the car. With someone that you know it was a strange away, they get in the car with them, I'm pretty sure who will got them. They know who it was. Joey estimates that he last saw. Charles Henry, around ten, or eleven a m once a motto sand that charges mother had passed him and told him the way she would pick him up on the web. Afterwards Thomas confirmed this story that
his mother Maisie had been feeling ill and decided to head to the doctor. That Saturday morning, Maisie saw her son Charles Hitchhiking, but was going in the opposite direction to the doctors she told Thomas. She decided to pick Charles up on the way back, matter fact. I talked to her and she said she wasn't going ten minutes and when she come back, they were gone, both were gone and she never seen him or heard from him, but one additional piece of information about Maisie that Thomas hadn't heard before I think after they found them. I think some output Some kind of threat on so amazing were told you that you ve been trying to tell me
one day while working in they all store mismatches, a k, a man in our shared this some shopping in us, and I was bad and up the world's for two hours or bad boy in the store I had made of the stuff- and I am took it out to the corner- she was riding and then on the way to the car me and her were talking, and she told me that she had been threatened, but she didn't tell me who had threatened her and she said that they had told her to don't try to do anything about her son being missing. Just leave it alone tall ass, one. Mama. Maybe you might need to think about moving wave mouth ass. She told me what My Liam House I have seen in Spain, but didn't we never talked about their database.
We have all read them with this dinner Walter. I guess, because it was, it was like a shot right watch and now she made me promise that I wouldn't do. That was reason that was so long wait. We go back over the events of that day. Saturday may second, nineteen sixty four and the following weeks to see if you the leak and remember any other details allows an event happened to them on Turkey several days later, I would get Union Hills Place, that's what we kind hung out with play cards and we shall pursue their stuff like that,
at least you guys come in and they will Wyatt and ask for me by name, and I asked them who were they and they told me that they were FBI agents and they wanted to talk to me about Charles Moore and Henry D. Their my father gave them permission to talk to me and we went outside, and I said in the back to the car and talked enough for maybe twenty minutes to a half an hour. They was asked me about saws and Henry in. What they had on the stuff- I remember Charles Heaven on a prayer genes and I'm pretty sure, was sweatshirt and Henry
I don't know if he had on jeans or not, but I remember whatever you had on it, wasn't the dark blue and they found Henry Charles in the river and they hadn't weights or something on them and have been dropped into the riverbed, and it was reported that someone fishing had found them. I was quite upset. It was a high thing at such a young age, my life they have to deal with all the states on they will just you know I gotta say exactly the same kind of problem too. My sister Jolie leaves the kitchen for a moment then returns with a photo album, showing me a time worn picture of a young woman. This is a picture of my sister. She was killed in a one car accident car burn up
maybe three quarters of the way, and after we had the funeral and stuff my mother made me promise her. Also that I wouldn't do anything until after they were to see. I know her son's is not satisfied with what was told they are men and all the rest of us is not satisfied with it either. So we wondered if it is true that some people's working hours on remember investigation on the state of mississippi- and this also has a common- both wouldn't say everybody got somebody exactly exactly? This is what happens when we will live in down here in this our town in any type of shit, I'm goin on Would you know all this don't go on? I will find out the fibre caravan judges is vested with a group of world Youth tricked out the two boys and dropped them off, and you were able to take them on words right, because my father had me owner restriction when his car
day. How can anyone selling them is one his car, I feel regret bag man. I felt there I feel it now and you love problem, would when I lay down my last time. I probably take it with me when I die and that's okay to feel that way, because I feel that at this moment in time we just talk about I found it over many interviews with blacks and also some white over the years. That story The violence and laws are part of the legacy of deliberately sown fear and uncertainty. Part of Civil rights are a fabric of the area, feeling that tragedy or violence, or even the hate could have been prevented. That justice might have been achieved, if only
DE and more and the rest of the men and women we know were killed or beaten or discriminated against during those days in the nineteen fifties and Sixtys were far from the only victims of the America, Soil terror of white supremacy, a couple of he's after arriving in Mississippi Thomas and I took a trip into new by Louisiana to visit someone I was very important to the case- must cover Foma Collins is one of Henry his sisters, Thomas, and I would find her and the small Louisiana townward she'd been living for many years. She's, a gracious woman, shorter in stature the resilience mindset of one who was raised, twelve children and lost a brother to murder. As in your favour, Zuma, here
There were no known pictures of Henry D at the time, but Tom size face and every one of his family members that we would eventually track down your social events on again. Henry Hezekiah DE, was born on January eighth. Nineteen, forty five he was raised and Rural villages, Roxy Mississippi by his grandmother after his mother icy scene, was deemed mentally ill and had to be committed to a psychiatric hospital. Henry was a boy he went to school. He turned to his grandmother. Dab dab was his pride and joy. His grandmother Henry had travelled back and forth to shirk although several times to visit an ant there and, as we heard from Jolie, was thought up by his friends in Mississippi as a bit of a city slicker, he had prose best hair with a reddish tinge, but he was very poor.
Robin would often whereupon down to protect it, and he never did Bob no bad. He was smart. If you bring a conversation, he would enter with top, but then there he was Smart Capri. What did you do? Ask relations you, boys, look out for his grandmother work. Taking his grandmother was making dying. He had only a man was his grandmother was, is proud, a joke. Was she hated? Mabel says he was a baby mamma. You know she lost a man, so she left five year us
they hit the family, took some took to assign to war like did take years when she had bad my mother's living, all our home, we hadn't told bodies we hadn't, all that is the cause, I'm a man. I would want to be the warrant to break it. Not me, I wouldn't dare to break it to mammas aid it back. She be eighty sixth birthday, but she just she love us. Most of us would like bag seats, in fact, as of July
The two thousand seventeen icy field is still alive in her late nineties institutionalized and still has no idea. Her son Henry DE was murdered. You still Ciera yeah. We get more bite, they poured in this month, where she's in Jackson, sipping, she's a howl and he's dying. He hurried your mom does not now shun hundreds. She don't know a kid she'll, even though a hustler pays We had told her day Henry DE graduated high school nineteen sixty three afterward. He worked at the halt. Him love Company in Roxy and on the day he was murdered. According to those who last saw him, he was on his way there to pick up his paycheck. He Charles more decided to hit a ride together as they were going,
The same direction in the weeks. Following their disappearance, there were rumours repeated, if not started, by Franklin County Sheriff Wade Who told who is also a reputed clan sympathiser? Charles and Henry had gone to Louisiana. To look for work growing, worry Maisie. More Thomas's mother looked at the rumour on her own mama, I had visiting this gig and mother came. My house and she, Oh s when I found she told me she say, is mass on in your brother. Here, as I know, they're not here, she said what is All the men came here to get a job, as you know, and she sent him most. She said a pause is missing,
For no reason to mom who didn't notice was missing, tell your mother came and ass when I found that it was business still know nothing until one day, Morocco Column, Atonement, a fountain, and you know it really hurt it. Just hurry back. I say: have eighty hurry council that right, nice till it mean a top a bad? It hurts me won't. You know you never tell Mama and her remaining siblings were happy to allow Thomas and I to continue working on the case on their behalf, because none of them the time or resources to do so, and we connect with
alma again many times over the next months and years. Almost more is done a wonderful job and appreciate in baking, because nobody s head and picked it up day. It was a case, forgotten, Davis, just murdered and forgotten silent. Waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, o Brien ass. She had comes to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret. Seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Raquel and her family as they discuss their past for the first time. What emerged was a much larger story.
Here: silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast, so you gotta catch fish. Nor of any were real. Do I know about it? You can t there this, It is my fervent back in Mississippi Thomas and I visit dilemmas, restaurant, a drive, in the greasy spoon located at the entrance to meet veil is calculated on the web. They know what physically don't notice gets is made on the announcement announcement.
Remove the made all my here: that's all right away to catch fish and grilled cheese aside. Our visit to the small restaurant at the entrance to meet bill was about more than sandwiches, this iron Gray APOLLO. They call it the time it takes to free the measures in the report wait ajar more him dues, Just up the road is the guy. Ass station were Jolly Rawlins last sardine, more it's easy to pay for them working in this direction. Looking for a ride out of town one of its autonomy
Furthermore, in everyday with Italian from this, but you picked up by a member of the conclude claim: KKK jubilant tourists almost seven years before what it would be, a big stick, drove into the forest, mostly towering pines, with a few hardwoods and stopped almost randomly at a dead end. Overgrown road furiously area like an ass. Well, Braxton hang around this kind of domino
Why would you laugh was the one who told you couldn't come, then those who said that this was not the place. They were broad, but we walked into the forest to get a sense of it more. For my benefit, aghast and Thomas wanted to show me the kind of sticks that may have been used to undertake the beating in the documents they were called. Bein sticks, slender, stripped, new branches. There's a million persons tied to a tree table mouth legs tat to the true, probably a rule run
hidden like this Vienna, montages rubbed waters and talks, so it would give for blood in the car. I think I now call more Portman be to God it has been to God damn hell out, but they want to take their little Fucking Tom, after being beaten, bloody and unconscious d and more were taken to Clyde Seals farm in the bunker community, deep within the how much had or national Forest
from there? A phone call was made using the code word key whew, meaning clansmen. I want you, Jack Seal and Earnest Parker drove from matches in Parkers Redford Galaxy. To answer the key: who did clan call for Help Jack Seal was James, is older, brother and Clyde son. He was the night hawk of his local clever. Ex navy and a garbage man by trade He was known like his brother James, to be violent and is known to have taken part in many other instances of clan violence in the nineteenth sixties. Ernest Parker was from a family made wealthy by oil and cattle He was a member of the White Knights and also the Americans for the preservation of the White Race, a clan sympathise
Auxiliary organization based in matters. Parkers wealth supported, wait, supremacy in the area, for example, by helping to build white, private schools and Parker and his family also owned power. Cars, island in the old, Mississippi River, where D and Moors remains were found after Parker and joy. Seal arrived at Clyde Seals, farm and Buckley. According to the FBI report, James Seal taped in more mouth shut, and they were bundled into a plastic tarp, so their blood wouldn't get in the car and then stuffed into parkers trunk, Then, along three hour drive along country roads to the ultimate destination. Parkers in the woozy Anna a play,
Thomas and I would ultimately refer to as the kill site as we drove out of the. How much had a forest on the Buckley Road towards meat will Thomas reflected is banned? There are seven years as our trousers partook of war the flash back in my memory, They saw the role assigned curve, heal and made me wonder what causes does John Mark as it will help. What does it say? I remember that just passing by surely can be reminded help torture, diversity
moreover, the I'm sure they big Lion, HOLLAND Cry Plan, thought I make a one hundred percent like this. The report is too little John offered him a deal. To lose out area. This is He has to travel, because this is the only way to come, call the Mississippi River and that's so. This has to be the role that they traveled. So here we go when you always borne Como. First up as we grew closer to kill site, Thomas became taciturn and irritable
Father said, Actually, we arrive at the place where D in Moors partial remains were discovered. The place in that one thousand. Nine hundred and sixty four black and white fill my first Sade CBC with the men fishing out of the bones and the place. Returned to with my son. So many years later,. On the far side of the Waterway Parkers Island, also known as Davis, island after the previous owner and namesake of the place. None other than Jefferson Davis, the leader of the confederacy as Thomas and I walked down to the river. The mud gets thicker and eventually impossible to navigate
there's a man in a boat coming toward us. It's a member of the park or family become a new way tell him exactly what we're her. I will go he points out that we're on private property and asks us leave after I'm through getting a few shots with my camera according to the FBI and form a giant. The clansmen were surprised to find that d and more had survived the journey from the home. A tutor forest to parkers landing. Upon arrival d and more were dragged out of the trunk and thrown on the ground. Charles more was chain to a nineteen, forty four Willie's Army Jeep engine Henry DE, was attached to some old brain rails and fly wheels. Jack seal James, Ford, Seals brother said that they discussed shooting them but decided not
because it would have gotten lot on the boat, a Clansmen ass, either dear more if they knew What was going to happen, he nodded that he did and one by one they were taken by boat out onto the Old River Henry De First, followed by Charles and thrown overboard, while still alive wants them. Here's a loser. Over. There is part of this in the civil.
Is it worth more here would do wrong, prepared and tossed over to invisible. According to reports, they were still alive. For my part, I Roger topped reporter who said that the nice talking garden I told you the hell. Are we just going to Olga? Do we'll see a professor? What does ground site. No one at this probably less menace
All the time or he'll do not disposed to allow a goddamn thing I plan to do from about. Very little town, I walked out of the water one related Tom about rule this rule Missis. The idea of old trees, this braided insecticide, you back in the Van on the first morning after our arrival and matches we're finished with the hitchhiking demonstrate in meat will now heading back to natchess for our appointment with district attorney Ronnie Harper his would actually be the first interview outside of Promise that I would conduct in Mississippi for the case, although this will turn
Barbara The de more cases to be taken up by a state level. Official Ronnie Harper would be the one to do it Well, I'm at almost more. We will see turning RADA sergeant, you be in TAT, allowed only Ronnie, Harpers tall and blue suit and red tape, with white stripes. He graduated from the University of Mississippi or or miss as it is known, and met Thomas more at least once before. Mr artist introduce yourself My name is Ronnie Harp around the district attorney for six Circuit Court district in Mississippi, which will include
Franklin Wilkinson, Emit counties in the South West Cork. Well, here I am with you are, and we still we still trying as alike down it is nineteen that aid I came over and then the kind of tat, I think are totally you want something to which we object to the costs are indisputable, died, the one from Baton Rouge Right, Wolf of Louisiana, that he was the one who said that they called him that night Ernest Gilbert was one of the highest rank. Clansmen in the state of Mississippi at the time, and he acted as spokesperson for the clan here is being introduced at a clan rally in the Louisiana, a recording, Gilbert him
self, made a quarter inch real to real recorder later on. We will write that, allow alike there. Now I got my boy European Louisiana again right, I'm a banner clan. As long as I was going to call, and this last time in the state of Mississippi he was head of the Kbi or Clan Bureau of investigations for the White Knight and also, as it turns out, became an FBI informant in August Nineteen sixty four shortly after he was told by some of the clansmen involved the murder of de in more Gilbert with supply the f
the eye with information about the clan and their activities, are proud of the white man on the board. With a white man lab, for example, he assisted with the migrant case identified. Manufacturer of clan robes, talked about clan meetings, furnish the identities and rolls of numerous clansmen in over twelve collaborates and two hundred members, including the air. Cavities of SAM Bowers, the imperial wizard, and he also provided information about key pieces of the D. More case Gilbert was confidential, informant Jan thirty, the informant from which much of the information from our nine page report about the killings had been gathered. Gilbert was paid for his role as FBI informant but came forward first, according to the FBI and those close to him, because he was deeply troubled by what he heard from his fellow
announcement about the treatment and murder of Henry VIII and Charles, more Gilbert was tracked down, and the late nineties by Conny, Chung and accrue from may be seen news with the help of a local african american law enforcement officer named Eddie Steward, who had befriended Gilbert, but despite the fact that this key informant was avi Leslie willing to talk. The DE more case did not move forward at the time and earnest Gilbert has since died. Back to district attorney, Ronnie Herbert basically, unsolved, solid murder case and open investigation. There were none, many formal arrests, never any indictments return ever any trial. So you ve got no that you basically going back to get in the work programme to the officers trying to go back through and reconstruct it and see who you can find, hopefully get more information cuz. I said I don't know. I think we talked about this. Before I mean there was an extensive.
Integration. In this case, there was a voluminous far from it other than during the day. After all, we have to be added an extension, but even then, why didn't feel confident that they have enough evidence to file for majority will be arrested altogether. There were arrested by just maladjusted covered in no. Number and dismissed in January. There were never any hearings. I took him Rather, interview omen and released them on board and then subsequently very shortly to dismiss them appear to me. That was an investigative too. They try to you I've been around a lot of investigations, I've never seen an investigation as thorough. Is they tried to do that? In the final analysis, they didn't feel confident, even in federal court, apparently like it prevail because they didn't following any charges, Ronnie Harper, obviously, hadn't being the district attorney forty one years before and he can't hurt, doesn't really say
why his predecessor chose not to pursue the case, but part of the reason that Harper didn't follow up on the file years later he says was that heat? who was told that there was no FBI investigation, initially requested a far from the beginning, and they wrote me back- don't have to eat all of this. Just went to that. I think, with the assistance of one of the local reporters and Jackson, they found out that they did have a photo on microfiche, Why this reporter was Jerry Mitchell at a Clarion ledger and Jackson, someone thomas- and I will Soon be visiting and they certainly sent me Where was less, where I got what I saw more to understand something- and I think I've told you this before when I was elected to this position, I took an oath to sport, love
to prosecute people valid in the love, and I told you they ended in making me who word when it happened. If a case could be developed and someone was charged in dialogue with a grand the martyr what it but I was gone, prosecute I've tried to get assistance and get it investigated. The district attorney's office is not really charged with investigating. We have to rely on the law enforcement agencies to do the investigations and the biggest hurdles we had is that this case was different from those not in the type of crime it was or in the importance of the victim, but just in the status of the case as we look at it for two years later. You now want to run out of time, and of course time is a problem here. They will lose time only ten years ago. Now you'll go well. No, I can tell you is I am trying to make sure that it moves is rapidly talk. So what you tell me, the cases still
I salute course I can speak for what family, for you I mean, for you actually never indicated that it did. You know that we wouldn't do anything goes investigate all running the. Certainly as far as I'm concerned, the investigation is still ongoing. Yes, it has requested So I will stay in touch with you and on the right who travel by which a guys absolutely welcome? Come of a sudden, I'm looking at China, something going myself it was investigated. Would you make him out something larger, well that's what I'm hoping you know they may very well be I'm gonna. Do somebody vows. I know they talk to a lot of people back during that time. Some probably still live in some I'm not, but it was apparent to me that, while those people were asked to talk fear whatever after a moment
Let me talk to you now that still lay not talk to, I think, I'm in a distant LISA, I step out of the room to give Thomas and Ronnie Harper a chance to speak privately afterwards. Thomas tells me what they talked about. Sitting on the curb outside Harpers Office and eating some boil peanuts always about the condition of the body. He told me that later on, neighbour divers went down there. That was skeleton parts. Skeleton steel attest to the part of the internet. Item. Oh, how will who deal identifies? He said a word. He D had I dont creation is and by when he gave me, some of it all with one about why what's more experience collar.
First time for one you this. What I see is for me. I'll call you Carter's data would Davy Board We want these laws are more. There stood first of all, a code of conduct on the council's under communist rule now or Corridor RADA hobble this wall of protest for food in the capital. That, with a protest, was about some spoken Corfu when the captain had not been for those who want to come back later. We visit our corn college, one of a handful of miss suppose Hp Caesar, historically black colleges, but no officials will talk to us and Thomas, and
get a few shots of the bleachers where the protest was held and leave documents. I've obtained from various are hives and from eye witnesses have presented and more of reasons for the protests that spring of nineteen sixty four from a curfew imposed on students to football player, stealing from the student union to the quality of care for terrier food. In all cases, it is clear that the governor of Miss, the city. Paul Johnson was heavily involved in the decision to have police move in and for the x bullshit plan laid out by principle, J D Boyd. If Charles had not been so banded, he would not have been in meat will less than two weeks later hitchhiking it still our first day here. So far. We ve been to meet bill for a quick, hitchhiking reconnoitre. Inter Ronnie Harbour, and that is now back to Franklin County
near Roxy, Mississippi we stop in what was then a BP gas station for a snack, Thomas's euphemism for boiled peanuts or a massive sandwich. I generally the fruit bars and cereal being a vegetarian much too Thomas's needle Laughter Thomas went inside to pay and came by the Van with an old friend of his cousin. Actually, a man by the name of canny bird who was wearing us. Raw had and great blue cover us with his name. Embroidered on the left. Breast name is, can avert. This Kenny Bird story was about to change the entire course of our investigation were he's say he lowered James zero Games, Ford Seal who was supposed to be dead seal was the clansmen who had reportedly assisted with the pick up, whipping and murder of de in more he does
have been arrested but then released along with Charles Marcus Edwards back in November, nineteen sixty four zero right right. Right. The sea level between those batteries, pine trees, writer, I'll, be right there to the right of mobile home. When a motor. How did that how do you know That's great, you do, James Seals. Right then, this is the guy is older than torture. Guy The train is ready and willing to show. You You have been listening to episode to the clansmen
visit CBC dossier. Slash escape s to see pictures of Thomas more on Vietnam, James, Lord Seal and Charles Marcus words when they were arrested in nineteen sixty four and other photos. Associated with the case. Someone know something is hosted, written and produced by David Region. The series is also produced by Chris Oak: stiff Camp imo damage Yunus Kim an executive. You, Sir Irish New Ronnie and mixed by Sl Fernandez, Our theme song is terrorized by Willy came now you're talking about other. Your talk about people are bound to arise,
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.