David meets the police officers involved in the Greavette case to learn about their investigation and find out what the evidence reveals about who might have killed Wayne.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a CBC podcast. This is the side road that we usually come down with her. Delivering our male, we stop, but each boxes along the way. When we come to this box, it was no different, We usually drive up as close as we can to the box. It came here. I had the parcel The parcel in put up the red flag- It was a regular day happen, We are day that we had my grandson in the back seat and there he would have a powerful story
and it was very neatly done- parcel very distinct, because the thing that I noticed- and I mentioned to my daughter before it put it in the mail box was the fact that it had this very nice ribbon on it it was something that you were use, are now waiting gift or something like that and it was tied. Very neatly now was the only the thing. Otherwise, it was just a regular harsher. How have you I mean like migration? Was wishes the USA and normal- it was a chocolate box only much sticker If I hadn't had adventure ruin, we were never pay attention to it at all.
And what happened after when you dropped off the target. We get continued on our road. We have to go down further, then after we turned up the next lie, To do that line, we heard the police car Sharon's more than one. And then we heard what hundred like an ambulance, and I said to my daughter, their sounds like there's been a serious accident somewhere and we did not financing. But what has happened on our delivery until the next morning when we went back to the act and post office everywhere? was outside the police. Were there and that's the first we found out what has happened. I'm back at the March farmhouse and I'm with Joyce the purse who, on December twelve nineteen. Ninety six delivered a package here
It's that unbeknownst to her contained a bomb, places wearing a white nylon coat dark, khakis and glasses haven't spoken much about her experience before place was unofficially helping her daughter, Diane that day, Diane and is Canada, Post, employee and also along for the ride Diane son. I wonder about the postage on the package DAS, Diane about it. They would accept a more than enough to make sure the parcel never got returned per you're. Not have enough boasted so desired, indicate to you that the person God the stamps, went home, put them on the package and then dropped it and mailbox may be it out like that. We have acted posts,
That's a clue to something. They told us that those who, after the fact, like you, know the next day when we went in the head, like the pleased when the bomb squad and the dogs and everything they bought us into a room, and they showed us what you know get own up and they showed us the paper and they showed us the stuff. They told us about the posters in November and it fit like wherever this is my thinking. It had a bee. Who ever did this had to have measures that mailbox? It fits like when you put it in They were just a little bit each side. You know what I mean when in their perfectly you think about it. Often comes to every once in a while. I feel he is sure to have the guilty. Failing that, you apart
of doing something. Tat was serious and also the fact that haven't my daughter and my grandson and carry it could in fact our whole family. You are listening to someone know something from CBC original podcast in he's in for David Region, continues the work he started nine years ago on the Wane brevet case. This is episode to death letter I've been looking forward to today and sitting down with the family. It's been a long time since we've been together, I'm in a car with Ontario provincial police, detective constable Paul Johnson was at the crime scene at the market, farmhouse
day Wingrave that was killed, he's imposing man with a soft voice and a dark suit around the backlog we're on our way to see the grew who are gathered as a family Justin's place their anxious to hear directly from Paul Johnson, where wanes case is due to meet your faith in one tat, is really remember Marie vaguely the jealousy ass. Remember, I remember your voice, I think more embarrassing Yes, we move inside where the family gathers around Justin's dining room table with Paul Johnson. I respect everything about you. How hard you worked on this case, and you know I guess we're just
King everything that may be recorded, minister. What we can do your planet on second into it until we get to Every avenue we can get we have, pretty much exhausted every avenue technology changes. So technology, changing their hope, toper. Perhaps new technology could bring something that was missed with some of them, the technology so far of the day, hasn't been able to bring you anything. New, five years because of the delay, are you between ninety six and now we have also war must talk to us. Relations, because you know very dynamic individual didn't have grown at all times and we thought so there's lots of people there he had
He had occasion to talk. I just can't discuss with the family. Or with any sudden ass. You t any aspect of personal interest in this aspect. Most of the fiscal. We don't put that we keep at it in the investigative teach us that's what we do and we understand that what about the profile that was done of the person who? What? What did the profile say? What what kind of person in a nutshell here Intelligence very focused hatred desire to extract revenge from a distance
We have no idea whether it's the war borrowing and decide whether its private life- and we don't know just before any information duration. Somebody recalling direction. We could conceivably do background work. It's all that's what this shows is programme was jostling memory or, if the other information, the volume I want it solves back here. It was very nice. Thank you very much. Is it really it off? People buy it all
there we were. Well, ok, really we worked it. The only support we really had with the police. Paul John said they were the dice evil. They were the guys. I believed it too. In this case of either what the hell happened. Twenty years later without a solution to the case. The vets, still have a fair, balanced impression of the o, p p and their attention to wanes case like many victims and we members they rely on police to help keep their case alive. There, questions are some of the same facing police who would decide to kill someone who would use a bomb to do it active It is by switching on a flashlight and who
choose to send it through the mail system. Where could explode indiscriminately, but what's the evidence to work with? It was December, twelve of Niger. Ninety six, I was contacted by my seniors to go down and assist Detective inspector record. I'm with I'll Johnson once again this time at the bricks police station in London, Ontario that houses the opium poppies, unsolved homicides, investigative team, the information that we had when I, when I arrived on site was there have been a mass of explosion in the office of his business. It was in his house. He leads me. Asked a number of while size white boards laid out in ribs of long narrow, rectangles in each row, written and blue dry erase marker the name of an unsolved homicide victim
I'd every name. Some case basics colluding whether there is dna evidence available or not. The word spring is written next to wanes name in green wing instantly. As a result, the explosion, his son, was injured and his wife had just minor injuries. Police photos of the aftermath show a room converted into a home office complete The obliterated papers broken furniture and glass all encompassed by an explosive spatter Emily from the area where wine and just and had been sitting Wayne is still on the pink couch in the photos. I've seen the blast remains of his upper body parts. Lee covered by the old blanket Diane had laid. There was a call in December, the flash I was, there, was filled with weeping. S for shrapnel
these roofing else added very profound. Dawn on when he was very seriously injured and I as a result very and I'd instantly trafficking, gone through several different layers of drywall into several areas at home, so examination has seen took several days. We had people that we were interested in persons of interest, and I would gather information to over the next two years ago, them and their activities to search once a banking records or hotel records or telephone but we never did develop a true such back here. The answers gotta be in the file somewhere. We haven't found the answer yet
The final? cabinets. I see tell the tale of years of police work undergrowth that case and in castigation but went back to business interactions from nineteen eighty six onwards, There are tapes of interviews photo lineups officer notes, telephone banking information contacts, explosives companies and copy the bomb design manuals, If the answer is in the files, pattern or detail, did police Miss
here I meet Paul Johnson at a very modern, looking o p p identification lab located until Sandberg a town renowned for its tobacco fields and back breaking work, so we're going to the case. Room This is a representative sample of of the debris that we seized from the winged brevet primacy, pause in the same dark suit, but now wearing purple rubber. Gloves walking down a nondescript institutional, hallway, always lit by finish, fluorescence Paul walks me into a room that reminds me of one of my high school chemistry, labs, Johnson, Justice, rubber, gloves and lifts a clear plants the sleeve from a file. This is the original letter
You written a letter that was sent to linger vat and the original envelope saying merry Christmas. You can see on the letter that the original ink signature, William J French of ACT in home products, John, slides a slightly crumpled piece of paper out of the sleeve there stains on a third look like blood and the law. At our carries a chill without a cold. A training stare from the mine the person who killed with its typed in awe. Caps and playful font, the kind You might see in a church news letter or perhaps a kid soccer schedule, not This fund friendly to conceal the hate hidden within Mr Wang Brevet. Dear sir, my partners I partners and I are opening a new business sometime early in the new year called act and home products.
It would be very interested in having you give us a price on rebuilding some equipment. You did some work or a company. I was with a few years ago and although you remember me LISA and your delivery man, Joe most likely, will don't plan on doing anything until after the new year We don't plan on doing anything until after the new year, but would be me most anxious to proceed at that time. We have no staff or office in place just yet, but you can write just by mail at our new address below thanks, your time and I look forward to hearing from you sometime early in the new year, sincerely, William J, French, acting products. Our number one unit number six act and on Terrio L, seven g to and one p s didn't realize you had moved, had some trouble finding you
have a very merry Christmas and a May. You never have to buy another flashlight. May you never have to buy a a flashlight, I have a forum under the water. On my desk I was always quite moved by the p S a cold. It was theirs signature made by a blue pen that all but surely was held in the killers hand, but it's the p ass. The draws initial attention, the post it is in the least sociopath EC by definition, and me hold the key to identifying personality traits of the perpetrator, the supposed business address and acting home products itself? Don't exist the postal code, It was for a residence in Georgetown, a short drive away from action the name, William J French, also fake.
Unknown to the girl, that's but the other two names mentioned LISA and Joe R P but we knew fellow employees at surge beverage. The company were Wayne worked Joe Jos out was a delivery man and LISA Lisa Urban, a secretary. In the letter, leases name is spelled incorrectly. As L I as a but she actually spells it them. More uncommon way. L he s a mistake, What's his name, We don't know why it could be on purpose. Just because you only heard the name We don't know speculation I have to assume that the person who made the bomb and wrote the letter would have built in safety. So that their identity would be protected.
Was the letter and its contents a red herring, the complete opposite of the war? The perpetrator may have come from and nothing to do with the food in bed Virgin Industry or did contain half truths. Would Wayne have been able to figure out where the letter came from how'd. He survived the proof. I love the individual, the question: why why wouldn't Do something more direct! profile. The individual is someone's gotta, deep, seated hatred but also somebody that wants to retire from a distance, it doesnt have perhaps a conference national skills or doesn't think they would win in a conference a direct confrontation so that used to bomb and done it indirectly in terms of why they would use the name this wall, LISA and Joe in there, and the latter will have obviously too low Wang Brevet into a false sense of security. Author in and the contents of the package,
like what the Heck with Wayne have to have done to Elizabeth. We don't know what what hated this. We don't know what we did in his individual. To cause them to react this way in profiles I have could be something as simple as is cut them off in traffic. You, I would just go and drive on worthy could have it could be something through business or his personal life, to which we just don't know. Do you think he did? The person thinks Wayne did something to them. It's important, obviously, something that causes person to have a very deep seated hatred for Wayne pure speculation has done what it would be. No finger and were found on the letter but there. Maybe a clue found in the typewriter find itself it's it's very unique: it's it's
most like a finger print in itself in this type letter and- The letter is actually letter to find which particular fund. Was used and that there is normally in the daisy wheel. The daisy wheel is used by older style, printers or electric typewriters press the BT and the daisy we'll spins to be. Actuator sends the bee into an ink ribbon and then impact both on the paper forming an inked letter b. And so on as fast as you can type police determines the letter mailed to wane had been typed on a Smith. Corona typewriter with such a daisy we'll each we all came with a different fond Fond used in the grove. That letter was called script, ten twelve, daisy, we'll number five, nine five for three. At the time
lay two per cent of people who had a Smith Corona typewriter owned the daisy We all that made this fund according to police, what more daisy wheel and typewriter combination used to type the letter to wane displayed. A unique anomaly see behind every period. This one stands out the most behind the word year before in the period is an up slash, that shouldn't be there and imperfection after Every period So small, you might not see it. A very tight many slash possibly caused by Ben Daisy, we'll get a daisy worker affinity either of these typewriters. Here you can see inside the daisy will within into here. This is Smith Corona. This is
the popular ninety four. Ninety five. Ninety six and typewriter itself opens up anything the point here where the daisy wheels actually answered, and Our understanding is that the reason that there is because this is a bent on the days we'll just made of plastic, it is actually, if you look fragile any ban would translate onto the type page. Tantalizing clue, one that could find the typist possibly the killer, but despite it sensitive months, examining the corvettes business records and those of other companies to see if somebody had ever centre received another letter using the same type of fund with the anomaly police find another example that match the lead, that came with a flashlight,
Paul Johnson leads me to a different room and were joy. And by another officer, with a badge pinned to his uniform. That says T Macleod, he's also wearing purple rubber, gloves so what we're looking at here, our individual packages and each one has a piece of debris in it. The actual explosive device, the flashlight dozens brown evidence, envelopes with yellow labels are laid out in neat rose on a table before me this one's marked wire, agree, plastic debris,
recorded wire, and this would all be stuff that was in the actual bomb. So you can see, then the debris there's nothing else in small pieces of plastic metal fragment found in the ceiling In the long term, the everydayness of the roofing nails, pieces of wire and plastic doesn't computers, fragments of a bomb more like the remains of a day's work on a shop floor to be swept up, the gray plastic flashlight was Duracell brand floating lantern, about twenty three said metres long and fifteen centimetres tar. With a yellow ring around the screw on lens cap and a year
oh on off switch. This is the kind of flashlight it was used to construct. This request was made to kill. Absolutely absolutely mythical obvious that the device it was meant to kill linger back from your model. Explosive emotion in device and from the fact that the roof. Yes, pact, rounded, it was a perfect improvise, explosive device. It was intended to be lethal. Silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, O Brien, as she attempts to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret.
The seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Rico and her family as they discuss their past. For the first time, what emerged was a much. Larger story here silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast. Everything that, in those boxes the wrapping paper Lastly, there is receiving No, that's news. As a fingerprint chemical. The wrapping paper, the hunter rain on one side and the white on the other. It was wrapped incited rights. I turned my attend. Into a pile of pink stained. Colored newsprint, the stain I'm told all this from forensic investigations looking for fingerprints and other physical evidence that might have been left on the paper during pack,
those are the fires that it was wrapped in. Yes, the flashlight I've been wrapped inside a cardboard wine box, stuffed with flyers the kind unsolicited advertising. Anyone might get in their mail box on the weekend, but one particular flyer was only distributed locally. This also building centre fire here he's from Kabul number our main street Milton gender mainstreaming is melting, the one mostly evidence to be the one from Milton China is local. The person who wrapped the flashlight must have got the fly from the Milton distribution area from the sea. Or itself from inside a local newspaper or passive. Lay from a local mailbox, Recycle Bin.
The wine box at the Flash language inside open. Then it was wrapped up with fear. The wrapping paper the wine boxes festive covered in the future for those of roses it originally held Cabernet red wine the brand name of domain door, I notice a rectangle neatly cut out from the lid area. So you can we ve been here or there but not only because he called on the box. We have to assume that it will raise it off there. What is that indicate? Why would somebody cutting product number of chicken cheesy identity where the product came from? You wouldn't be able to see it came from the specific store or specific location. It would really muddy the waters as to where it came from and could be from anywhere. Then it wouldn't like taking off the fingerprints
what is it Then it's well planned as part of the investigation. We interviewed persons at the vote office in persons responsible for the rural mail delivery? We did that They remembered that someone had, asked about wing brevet and where he had moved too. There are two people that have come to the post office. Yes, one down: A dead person other dealt with another person outside trying to find wings new address about a month before explosion. Two men went to the act and post office looking for wanes address the gravity.
Previously lived and act and but would have moved. The farm near Moffat five months before Are these men were allegedly seen police sketch artists drew pictures of the men stone Witness information sellers to sketches of two people where who sketches whereof. I hope to look into this. Drawings. As I move through the investigation, the pull his release? These sketches but didn't get any leads so we're hosting the money s chaos website, along with photos of the letter, wine box and packaging material and we can help them in my twenty my service, I d been a detective since ninety ninety one. I meet some of the other o p p detectives who have worked to correct case means. I e all I'm a detective inspector with the Inter branch police, detective
Lincoln, held with gray beard and the amiable press of someone's uncle near retirement, held carriage of wanes Kay for two years, then handed the case to Paul Johnson and active inspector Ian Mall in a dark pinstripe brown base tie with Crystal clear glasses is head of this. So p, p investigative unit and explosives expert, he Dan and Paul said at a table in front of racks of boxes, information and evidence dozens of cases. Dan speaks first, followed by Ian.
Yourself, flashlight was set off with a single sola battered doubly battery. The explicit that was used in this device was Sayer Super Brac emotion, which is generally used in the mining business for fracturing rock and generally itself packed into balls and and set off with Asia, had detonator and for control explosives. But it's a high explosives and a small amount which would cause significant damage to distance. There would have been probably less than a pound or a pound and a half of emotion vehicle that, within the confines of the battery cavity, is the feeling that this was a store bought. It
be purchased through manufacture, but it could have been obtained through that from a gravel pact or some other explosive distributor at some point in time. For the most part, you did at that point one thousand nine hundred and ninety six. You did not need a license to obtain that stuff and how much training someone,
We need to put together a flashlight bomb like the one that killed Wayne, so anybody who worked with those textbooks bosses in mining industry would have the ability to put something to get the ability to build an improvised explosive device or an idea, which is what this flashlight was, could be obtained through at that time, through some magazines there were available on the black market or directly lot bookstores. The internet was sort of in its infancy back, and I can only six so there was limited information on the internet, but it still could be found if you're looking for some guy, it's late person could put back together would be rescued. The explosive itself is waste.
Stable. It takes a power source in order to ignite explode. Didn't you can take place, expose put on the table with a hammer all day, long spark cabins debris blasted. Luckily, everywhere the hallway, through the wall, it was everywhere Loretta hands off, it looked like there was no angel on the wall, but outline of a human, but it was really, but rather the outside because, if anything it initiated from his life for his lap and so this body would act as a shield, for everything that was expelled out of the explosion, leaving the silhouette.
So once you're just install. Do those rights, they're gonna happen. Basically, The positioning of his dead body is worth protecting We have to have that in your mind, when you're putting out the gettings eneas somebody's home, some how else could be? There are not necessarily intended victim, but his family. How callouses no dna was detected on the postage, but Johnson says that two hairs discovered under the tape on the package. At the time, though, DNA was in his infancy, we did have to hear, as it were, found in the packaging material, but they didn't have the route chief to the hair. As a result, we ended up contact in the FBI and in clinical Virginia and the hairs rash
you taken down there for mitochondrial dna testing, at which in b96 six earlier tonight, seven wasn't available in Canada. They were unable to come up with a viable profile at the time they certain criteria. That's me: searchable to non perpetrators. This case we don't have a police, also came to a dead end on the source of the Hunter Green, packing paper and spent money. In the basement of liquor stores in fifty two eighty kilometre radius of the farm sifting through cash register receipts to look into anyone who bought the same domain door. Wine box that the flash It was delivered in. We never came up with. A viable suspect through that purchase, It wouldn't make sense to me for a perpetrator to expose themselves to a public drop off the box. Post office counter far more or less
the clear given the extra postage that the box was placed in a drop off shoot to the exterior of a postal building or even A random red mailbox die. And the postal workers said she believed that the perpetrator, had measured or at least ask them it is the size of the Brevet mailbox in person before sending. It were very confident that that purse, is from within that area. We know that from me information a letter that was in the package they had to have some familiarity with with Wainwright his family and his business anyone in the water bottling industries is familiar with barcodes to mark their products. So again that leads back to the business that we have some familiarity with that in order not to leave any traces behind. That's the way the boy was sure the boss was purchase. This cut that out,
and they have their their knowledge base. From now from the water bawling industry, I leave the police and rejoin the corvettes as they did. Thus the evidence and strategies there. Next move the two men who were seen asking for the girl vets address at the act and Post office come up first Obviously they were looking for us and whether or not two guys ended up being aid to wear, go in there to the post office and try Finally, I am not quite sure by those too, I still exist out there somewhere. There's somebody out there. I think that know something The two men are intriguing, especially given the timing they could also have nothing to do with wings murder, still its that nobody has come forward to say
it was them. If that's the case, we're not investigators and we can go out and launch this whole big investigation. So we gotta start with what we got and hopefully something can come out of it. Ok, we don't know if serve the people of interest to them, but we have people. Interest to us and at the end of the day, will it make us feel better inside that we have talked to these people or that we ve tried to talk to these Yahoo. I will feel better The family moves forward with the notion of investigating the case together talking to people I once knew who knew Wayne two may no more. We might approach some people and they just slammed the door and our face right in and you know, but there's nothing prevent. Ass from leaving their card on the doorstep that might just spark something, even though they are not willing to sit down face to face with us. It might get them to think I'd like to
speak to some people that you know he was associated in our family was associated with in thinking of all the directions the flashlight could have come from over the years, one that the girl that family keeps returning to is a company called surge Wayne had been a partner at search beverage, which was owned by a man named at Gaelic Ed and Wayne. Had at least for a time, a close, almost father, son relationship with Ed taking, Wayne under his wing in the business.
So you helped her dad as employ a diverse, told, just and worked alongside his dad had surge beverage and new ed and business well, and he had to stop working at search stern, his own business, when we momentum I joined Edmund dread alongside them. So tell me about your dad. Workers serves my daddy and at Gaelic they had done worked on a lot of packaging. Cooking for years and years and years- and I came back and started upsurge after while my dad had actually come back again started working with Ed and what they did was packing women tapirs, fillers levellers, I know they put in their slemons line at was. Why was glad he was as close to me as, if not closer than any illegal? I ever had my dad tat became business partners and search. My dad actually would run the whole company while at would go well trodden off throughout the Eu S. Everything Arizona, you'd were left Arizona while he was gone, there's only took her house to care if the business and they had a fallen ill with partnership pending, proves the beasts of the field in its entirety. No, I don't. I know that it was messy, no deals with them since wean and his business partner at surge Gaelic had a major falling out and it's difficult to know exactly what might have happened without going to the source. Justin and Daniele decide that the time has come to pay a visit to Uncle Ed. Maybe we could pose the question to you is what sort of things could get have done? That would have to stop customers, and then one of the questions I really wanted to talk is: how is he respected with his colleagues like dad was pretty abrasive person. I think it is important too, that we leave them up to these questions by seeing like
the good with the bad yet like we want to Know- and I dont think that you're gonna hurt our feelings or its configuring The strategy for this meeting is important, especially considering that one of the main people of interest to the growth that is Ed, gay, like himself, have thought you know and that's gonna, take some of, anyway. If I was in their position, it will put your goddamn yeah exactly work.
Point now we're not knowing is so much harder, so anything that you guys can help us. We have. I think I've heard that, yes, we want ones being rude comes down after driveway you drove weapons room. This here is where we asked that big bar used to be gotta go as we approach the property, just an Daniel appear to lose. Their initial nervousness about the coming meeting and instead begin to reminisce about their childhood. I went down at the bottom of the driveway gives way to hold. The deadlock is called, is one that I love you add gaelic house is at the top of a tiered manicured hill. At the end of a long twisting driveway, aha
I sent circles a field to the right a pen for other animals idea the car and the driver said the sheriff. Are we not ignored? You have been listening to episode to death letter
Visit CBC dossier, slash escape ass, to see evidence collected by the police, including a copy of the letter and sketches of the men scene. At the post office Someone knows something is a proud part of CBC original podcast addicted. It s k s looking for more check out on drugs apart asked that explores are complicated relationship with drugs after adulation. When I looked at my circle of people who got I, it was elected officials and doctors and lawyers and other business people young executives in companies subscribe. Been apple podcast or wherever you listen to ask ass? Someone know something is hosted. Britain and produced by David Region, The series is mixed by sessile Fernandez and produced by Chris Oak Step camp. Village skin an executive.
Producer. Irish Ronnie, song is higher by Lanka? Crackers baby Stan, say for more CBC original podcast go to sea BC, dossier, slash original podcast,
Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.