David and the Greavette family track down every available lead, investigating whether Wayne's murder is linked to the water industry, biker gangs or organized crime.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a CBC podcast. I guess there's room one did you gonna linger here you're, never gonna wind, and to do so With it when I worked first CBC programme promoting aren't, Report Cuz. I heard you very well and that no, No comment at all. I got oh boy, one more
we all want no more. I'm done goodbye thing I met. A dingy motel that appears to be made solely of concrete blocks and Southern Ontario, the man who just slammed the big green metal door in my faces, an unreal I was just one of wanes many former coworkers and associates I'm trying to find and apparently hours ex military with experience and explosive ordinance, maybe you know something on the door staring at me, a crude chalk, drawing a smiley face, sticking out its tongue, there's not much left to do, but leave Back in my car, I sit stewing long enough to see our emerge from his building and walk.
On the street- did something happen between now and Wayne. So I do approach I'll again and follow them into a bar that he's gone into. You're gonna poverty rain or that no way. I understand you're a good friends with a girl. That's actually, Where are we would work and barriers, but I heard I heard a flashlight gotta packages. Looks to be honest, fifties dishevelled, but clear ride in a green collared gul shirt. We subtler corner
table near a pinball machine to talk about Wayne and his murder strike you the way that he was killed. It mean if someone really wanted someone dead. Why would they do that with mom and dad? I find really strange would be better reasons. Were you in a motor combat A real job Where are you going to war were Germany. Macgyver exposes the do with any force for all to noble one look form now. Is there anywhere else that you knew in industry or the business that had military?
experience, like you or that would have been able to handle plastic explosives or anything like because the police were railway, understood not do it all at once. I know that they make you take alighted. Second, I would like the I touched on some point. I spoke. Somebody said that you had heard someone say that the killings related to drugs or some work good, good people. We don't know that just surmise dollars, air from somebody else. You know we're talkin a ladder, for you all gave flashlight male know what watches all about mail is love, you D, bikers your welfare and speculation and nobody
so I have information as he was killed. Nobody in particular, were just a tiger discussion. We're trying to wonder why what happened I talk to our for about an hour, but don't hear anything new exert much good to meet you, I'm used to that's what I do get the hard times you are listening to. Someone know something from CBC original part casts inside then for David Region, continues the work he started nine years ago on the Wane brevet case. This is episode. Five junior,
say a few words in Spanish. I get the volume sort of out of here. I am happy that you're here hoping us- I am happy- saw happier doing this for us While I was any positive, that comes of telling waned story will come from the girl. That's it parliament and the investigation getting all the details out someone listening now. Now we know something about this case realize you're way died. There was a couple of days like the trunk pull did the driveway What date with waded. I were there at the moon. Diane and I go over the days and months leading up to wanes death. The more memory seem to shake loose.
Diane says Wayne was exhibiting. Some paranoid behaviour did, we know his life was in danger at last, certainly jump. There are further, while you already checked to see who pulled it driveway it. You see this struck out there. He used to call me Tito tenuous, my dictate for him and he said, deal clock list. Because the truck was pull it out. Let's call we says there: let's go see you that was said. He grabbed the edge of approval to stick with a hard brass and on it he grabbed the air. We ran out the door like I'm just follow beauty all they could all UK conceal. It is right at least he went bird it up the driveway and we made a left and he was bothering up the road to try to catch, whoever that was
While we must await the wrong way, maybe because we see anybody up their door ever it was made with the other way. So he was very tight work to today. Who was that? the driveway close to the time of wings murder Diane, says she received a phone call from person who said they worked for Bell Telephone wanes. Reaction to the call seems out of place Diane Tell me about it as we drive on the country roads around more set back the same. Is the call from Bell Canada saying that this is before We're waiting died as well that they noticed that company name in the Balkans,
I wanted to know exactly what it was we were doing and what we did you spell this guy said he rose from volcanic and wanted to know what it was we wish we did, and I was explaining that we rebuilt and service packaging machinery and built their way and walked in when I was, going away on the phone, and he got really pissed off and he told me to get. So I did. I got off the phone, he was yelling at me. Don't tell everything about our business and everything else like I forget exactly all his words, but he was really madly in remote, Yankees, business and users at the farm house, somewhere calls, and they want to know what you do in business. Well, you know you don't think twice. Them what you do. I mean. To be honest, I thought it was strange first, getting the call for Bell Canada, thinking that you know what would make them be going through
and pick out our number to call members dying ever justified. This call, which, from a truck or in the truck I was gonna, send it made sure one was for the bombing yeah According to Diane in the weeks prior to win, win was murdered, Justin had taken a call at the farm from, a person saying they worked for a trucking company. The person wanted the That's new address and in return, according to the collar would receive free t shirts just start to give it to them? And then I said now like you'd only know do they are so he didn't give it all other samples of wines. Odd behaviour occur, which leaves the farm to pick up a horse in another town. He plans to write it back,
when he leaves the farm he's in a great mood. Diane says, but when he returns Wayne is completely changed if something dreadful has happened on the road and ease. Inconsolable, hi there. I Diana stave off stories about wanes behaviour and the phone calls can see. Odd in retrospect, everything's It was weird in the wake of a flashlight bomb and in this number two thousand seventeen I received a call from dying and about another troubling call. She says she received just weeks before Laurie. Dad? You know why I just sometimes get a little bit spooked. You know when we're doing stuff in everything and all of a sudden that colleges came out of the blue in the way that the guy thought in everything it just me Well, the phone rang a night like I don't have I very seldom
use my regular phone, so I picked it up in the guise voice was Real deep- and you know what he says is this Diane for that and I said yes and that's what he said, I'm calling from Belle, and he said you're entitled to get free movies or whatever, and that's how the conversation I didn't keep at long, because I just said to him nice it. You know what, if I'm interested I'll call Bell direct and then I will not from the guy, but it doesn't an answer in the phone and talking to the guy. It's moved me right then, because the guys like this You know, I can't even say it, but his voice was real deep in it. Just was not about round my powers, of Canada's largest phone, cable and internet service providers, so on its face like this. Isn't all that strange silver cup days went by and you know, and you and I are chat about different stuff
Then everything- and I just thought she'd like this. Wonder you know, so I decided to call bow, and so I was how can the bell- and they told him what had happened in search of work, More and more minutes, and then she come back and she said no Diana. She said it was a man who called you and then I just thought dimension a two year because, like it just for some the usual and just the way, the dice ball in everything, and I thought my gear dig him right, deepen the thing, then you know, because I always remember that Bell call that game before Wayne. Asked away, and then it was right after that, when just got a phone call from the trucking company, and then it wasn't a week or two later, when everything happened solely just Cobby, we're that this person was calling from bow
in saying that I was gonna, get free movies and stuff like that, and it just brought me back to that time when Thou called the NL this person ordered another person ever call again talking about now. It has not been done, so we just me a little. That's all police have been told about this new two thousand and seventeen call, and back and ninety ninety six. Whether Wayne was just being careful about his privacy or something more is hard to no longer. That was a good personal friend of mine, very small, timid, shy person outgoing. It was energetic, had a motorcycle and abode? Nearly he tried to enjoy life. Danny shelter in a former colleague and associate of wines says he spoke to when on the morning he was killed was Wayne.
Acting paranoid then. So I got to know the family quite well. They were very good friends of mine. How can sitting in his living room on a chair, striped shirt, short hair greying at the temples and glasses, propped on top of his head? and he's smoking a cigarette. I said I was talking to him an hour before it happened, and I still had equipment over at his farm that I had to pick up from the shop after he was killed, and it was a pretty bad seen so when you called him on that day Danube, did you notice anything different? Another way was talking not at all we actually, he may jobs with me that morning. I can't remember the job that he told me. I was pretty funny how my boss laughed about it too, but I had called him about a piece of equipment. It was a caps order that he was rebuilt for us, it was supposed to be ready and it wasn't delivered yet. So I call them- and He said he would bring in it the next day. The tell me that about a beverage packaging business back in this nineties and on Terrio least her in Canada, while I started back
in the eightys and the beverage industry with Regional New York cell Sir That's where I met Wayne, we're back out purchasing equipment from search beverage equipment search was the largest food and beverage equipment company and Canada they serve as the United States and Canada. So there quite a large operation. They built Avril Doyle Springs, which is now Nessler Waters, Canada, which is largest spring water, manufacture, I believe in Canada. And they also built pretty, while every other bottling beverage plant in Ontario and quite a few of men. The United States- and I always del direct We will wait when worked with me. His nickname was wiener, but he worked with me finding me
Employment, anytime, I was out of work. He wanted to get me into a plant where I could buy his equipment. So tell me what you ve been thinking about the case. Since it happened, I didn't know what to think it verse and all these allegations, rumours about Wiener Wayne, to me they were unfounded. Shortly after wanes murder. Some news articles came out suggesting that is killing was somehow linked to his alleged involvement with a motorcycle gang, but this Ocean was quickly discounted by police. Media hype saying it, involved in drugs hang out with the motorcycle, lab, and what have you I didn't know when to be that way. I've been to his place many times but not for many many years I got to know his wife personally as kids. Personally, I was totally shocked with what happened, but
I also knew that there was other things that had happened. I call it a jealousy rival at senior had had a son named at Junior and a junior was Basically a few years younger than weighing when would have been, I think around forty and at Junior would have been in his late twenties early thirties and Wanger VAT was ordered by his dad at senior, which was and bars to throw a junior out of the shop and who do. I suspect, I always thought that it was paid head, but by whom I didn't know
Danny Shelton says he bought surge from at Gaelic Senior and that he also worked with a junior. So I join forces with a junior. Within a year I had purchased his dad's company search beverage equipment and other assets, so I just couldn't win no matter what I did. Somebody was out to get me out of the business. I found out that my implies went into cahoots with ad senior and tried to steal the company back, and take over and open up their own business. I went to the police, I mean I explained to them all what was going on and I told them has. As you know, this guy's I've heard rumours that people died around him. There's people that have died, suspiciously that have known. I had seen through their business years. Here, Danny is referring to wanes, murder and all so that of Paul Hinterland hinted
and who also worked in the industry, was stabbed to death in May two thousand to hear it's him Orton to remember that add gaelic senior has denied Involvement in the murder of winger vat is fairly suspicious to me, fairly nervous. You not. I went to the Opie, they did an interview with with man, I explained to them my suspicions marijuana you just get away from this guy Danny's
as that the business relationship he had with a junior at the time became strained together. As a company Danny, I was the sole honour at junior. He. I asked him to manage the company and manage the business. He knew the business very well and he recommended that I move into this building and I did that and when I did that everything was fine. I hear a few weeks later, I'm workin down in Michigan doing an installation for a fella that the opium looking for me because there was a flashlight planted in the building and the court
not the building and they did their investigation. It was just a flashlight, but it was suspiciously left. I dont have any information about this suppose it additional flashlight from the o, p p, when you say the slicing suspiciously left what his army, but that's all the police, told me I never seen it. I dont know anything. I really don't. I was never back to that shop after I was locked out by the landlord, but it is too scary when, when their family, that was a suspicious flashlight, so there had to be a reason for it being suspicions. They wouldn't go in any detail phone.
Not bad words up, I'm actually got the interview goin on here, yeah. Ok out, I said Junior what a coincidence that the shop now that you're not a coincidence given the colonies that a junior calls day during our interview a coincidence but from the call clear that a junior knows, I'm interviewing Danny after death he hangs up. We leave the suspicious flashlight incident on the back burner police I have never said that the incident led them anywhere on the vat investigation. Cash is nothing in this business. Five thousand dollars doesn't mean nothing but five thousand dollars and get a person killed. My son he's got a bad record.
Was dating, one of the hell's angels, daughters in London, Ontario and I'm still friends with this guy, this guy knew the outlaws were paid to do the head. That's all I know, and you know even saying that it's like I would have to reveal this. Outlaw farmer outlaw Hell's angel, biker, who's, semi retired he's at he's a good fella and his daughters already gone, and you know there's a lot of sentiment there, but anybody could have paid that money. It could have been a an angry person who bought a bunch of equipment and lost their business. It could have been all these it could have been, but I always thought it was the rivalry between Wang, Brevet, Junior and add senior speculations about wanes murder have covered a lot of ground from ripoff to other women and now to biker gangs. I've even been told by
credible source that Wayne with some kind of enforcement and that his killing was later to organised crime, but don't go on record or provide their sources and a former o p he officer has told me that, to the best of his knowledge way never helped police and any investigations Shelton assertion. About hearing wanes murder was paid. Outlaw hit. Seem signal, forget in my ears, but it's difficult to get in nation directly from bikers, especially the one percent variety detective. Paul Johnson for one doesn't bother the biker connection wanted. Neighbours have been interviewed by the radio. Are some newspaper back like around the time of the explosion, and they had said that there were
a lot of motorcycles in and out of this barbecue, so use paper may day connection that must be biker related right, discovered. I run a motorbike earlier in nineteen ninety nine book, Canadian, reporter and bikers specialist Eve, Levine, also connected wanes death to bikers the author claimed that Wayne was killed because he did not want to become an outlaw biker. A local club, but Diane says she never saw anything that indicated Wayne could be a one percent, her or part of a violent biker club. You now that they had said about Wayne and everything been.
Involved with the bike errors in all this stuff? You know India. I just think that the press- sometimes they just made life, how I guess it's all about selling a story or getting the publicity from the story and dare and not thinking about the people that are left behind again, o p, p, detective, Paul Johnson says their research has been exhaustive and that there is no biker connection. We applaud it like a dead horse, assist a pro job right like I carry out the APC Cody, all that stuff, the fate of books closer when you, when you say flog me, must he must have some contact within the network. That right I mean you actually talk to the bikers and stuff like or I like there was like a huge amount of time and effort with special unit. Put into looking down any jewish organized crime, can I reach out to Peter Edwards
Toronto STAR reporter and the author of over a dozen books on topics from bikers to organised crime to get his take. Edwards has greying hair Navy sure, with a Navy code with a reporters pad spilling out of his pocket of aid, the death of wind Brevet was a big news story at the time, so average people were talking but it definitely by Chris would have been it was in the news. I don't see a major biker club connection if someone is passed through a biker club in down it, that's possible, but I really doubt that this was anything organized by a biker club. I know several people who were in the Satan's choice at that time and they're extremely proud that they weren't settled one of their worth.
Thanks? You could call them as it can. I ever- and this is this: is this Nicky way of doing a crime and kind of a cowardly way and they d like to be right up in your face? This is who I am like they. They would be me in your face, yet you see them. They pride themselves on letting no he's doing it, and why was Wayne actually a member of it like a I dont know, being a member of a Baker club. I'm pretty much positive, he wasn't a member of a one percent plus one per cent club is a wonderful heavy duty: clubs as a target housing Those are less than two years the bigger clubs. He wasn't in anything like that, and the Satan Series were one per cent club. I just don't see, there's a Satan, thrice typing outlaw either like I just well, unless someone was actually hired to do it, but just the old bikers. I
No other big part of their mindset is SAM. This is who I am deal with me like. The idea of sneaking around is almost an admission that there's something wrong with you. That's why they wear the huge patches on their backs. They wear identification, saying who they are. Like the rather than sneak around and deny you they are they scream from a block away. If you wanna get an hour. Lawbreaker upset say is not in the club disease in the club. I've never had a magazine, so get upset with me for saying is a health angel. I said they weren't a house angel that their former health angel they would get upset, so you think, rather than blog way, not from afar with industry bombing they would go to the door and sort of adored. Reg amount beat him up and maybe fundamentally like it would be, it's not a complicated process and they would be easy enough to do and bikers the ones. I know the. They have absolutely nothing against stem dealing with when they consider an enemy, but they they have life.
Children and they don't like the idea of dragging what they call civilians and like they like to keep it sort of person to person. You don't get that many bystander shouting about, like your things, tenor their close up. You dont Europe even get rifles, use that much generally, it's a pistol at close range. I can't think of anything similar at all from the Satan stories. Hence vagabonds all the clubs arabic back, then? I can't think of anything like that. Maybe someone through one of those clubs. Lotta people pass through them. Maybe someone who pass through them did do that sort of thing They were. There was some really fluid membership. This sort of idea that year in a club, an arena for life. Is this system just not true at all sorts of people leave clubs and you can leave a club, then leave it alive. It's also something that I would catch. The eye of people
later turned informal Euro, a new guy was in the areas of explosives, the guy got blown up, and then he laughed like that that something that would be told the police. There were two of two people who went on to get a fair bit of money from police who had been in the savings. Choice as informers, and I really really doubt that they would have passed up on the shore. To make money on this this this would have been very lucrative for them and it would have been something that definitely motive attractive place. Attention so could bikers have been ordered by somebody to have done this evening bakers are really hard to order, like the reason their bikers, as they don't like to be ordered. Tell me about organised crime, and how organized crime may relate to the case or not involving the water industry there involved in food and beverage with organised crime. You would get pointed to someone who could do the job a lot of time, someone then released from jail. Someone someone knows he's trying to work as way up. Maybe someone is trying to get into the drug trade a little more and so? Well
in an organised crime. Person to do would be referring to someone who do it and taken permission for them, but the organised crime groups would not have ordered this. You nothing I just don't know. I don't think it passes the smell test for bikers it just doesn't seem the way they do it, other groups have been organised. Crime is a very, very broad thing, so, possibly where's the time when there were a lot of businesses being being bombed like an in Hamilton in the 70s run in Woodbridge were still getting that I mean we get a half acre Have they roll blown out? So it's not that term they ve stopped doing it. The bomb in the male is some. I dont know if anyone who did crimes that way like that. Some unusual way of doing it. There were people who blew up houses and businesses, but not through the mail them. L is a different thing. Their male adds a real sociopath element that Even these guys, a lot of them would turn up. Their noses doesn't mean you can hire summoned to find him.
Better business or under a love, someone sports, you don't have to it, doesn't cost. So much you'll get it done. So why am I do this extra and especially since you're doing it in a way that no one else will know that you didn't. I mean you're not going to benefit from its fear that regenerate from it, you know like it's. Only for the perpetrators soul satisfactorily yea it sort of aid strikes me. Alone are kind of way. Nodded loner, as in the fight club loners, but just as a loner personality thing that something someone, does by themselves, if you're trying to do it from such a distance. You're dragon in another person. If you hire someone to do it for you and it's not that complicated coming, this isn't rocket. Science There is a cowardly element to to anyone who had access to run to the explosives with a minor knowledge of the man, no conscience. If this is ever solved. My feeling is that it,
resolved through water through the bottled water business. There are all sorts of reputable people in it, but it's also pretty easy business to be, as Cameron all you need is a tap and a hose in and out of business. And information have started coming into our s, chaos inbox, one message was from a man who says he was a former intelligence officer with ceases: the Canadian Security Intelligence service, which is the committee equivalent of the CIA, or am I six Chris Moore, told me of a memory ass chaos triggered in him about seeing a group crime scene photo during a training programme in the spring of two thousand ten kind of stuck in my mind, it was such a horrific image I could not get it out and I didn't know any names I did know. Who was I we weren't given that sort of information, but when I heard your podcast about why this sounds really familiar, what I saw
Chris is certain that the photo he saw was of weighing grew vat and then so the shot of weighing on the codes wanes remain stomach on that pink coach. Yes, you remember yes, all very, very vivid, because if it wasn't set up it in any way, they just showed it could feel what we're looking act as a weary lives like us, like an auditor him with a big screen. So it was like large large image and could make out what it was at first and it was so And ass, I really stuck in my mind. So how did you come to see the crime scene photos? intelligence officer with ceases, and so we run our training programme its pretty in depth, but six month long and at the end of it a couple of bull BP officers who are Working on some sort of Inter agency, gang and guns unit had come in and kind of brief us on must both of devices weapons. That sort of thing in a kind of gave us a slide, show of pipe bombs, ideas things like that they had the sort of taken from gang.
The investigating things they come across in their running how their made what goes into them and their showing some crime scene for was also at the same time, and at the time you were not told window that name any circumstance, know nothing at all other. Then, while we worked in that we were given any name, we were, I didn't even know when it happened. This was a pool of two thousand ten that I was in the programme. Ok, so I had no idea how long ago it have, I sort of thought was recently. I thought it happened just before that and all we were told was that it was something to do with them. Like your game, we were led to believe. I don't remember the exact wording, so I can't be one hundred percent certain of the Bible. Led to believe that they had arrested someone then you grow was, and so the person The workshop was an o p, p officer. Yes, sadly, there
to them and they were all BP officers, but they were part of Inter agency task force. They work with other, naturally Arcy MP, other agencies on some kind of gangs and guns thing. You don't remember the names of the officers. I don't at all sorry. Yeah, that was, it was like a one day, were they showed this stuff and then another day that when it came in short, weapons are guns, and that was it did you get the feeling that they were using the photograph as an example of what could happen? If somebody opens- and I d or do you really, it was an example of a gang violence hit. Yes, I guess I have the feeling was an example again. Violence thing: I guess we had that feeling of it, did they mention anything about which particular gang were biker gang or mob group or whatever may have been involved. No names of any gangs I'd remember any mention of any particular group. He is funny I've. I've been thinking about this for the last weeks, as I listened to your podcast, I'm thinking about. Why did they show us that full because everything else had been photos
of stride, cars, maybe and then actual devices. Now here's what dead cord looks like yours what's tee and he looks like you that kind of stuff. So I don't I don't You know why they shot police have consistently said almost from the beginning. That wins, murder had nothing to do with bikers and yet, according to Chris, the o p p instructors were using the photo of Wayne after the flashlight exploded as an example of a biker war going on up time I'm not sure what to make of that information police tree. Nurse may have used the photo as a general example of a male bomb or they might have known more. This would have been less than six months after my original tv documentary aired about their brevet case in two thousand nine, I'm gonna continued,
pursue this angle of the investigation thanks very much better now than they give forget member, but for now there's one last person that we need to talk to. Silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, o Brien ass. She had comes to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret. The seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Rico and her family as they discuss their past for the first time. What emerged was a much larger story here, silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, my name is a junior high and the Son of Edward Signor of search faxing equipment
I finally connect with a gaelic junior for a more thorough interview, I'm asking the key questions from Ontario, while he's being filmed and b c he's alive but you're framed guy with the gray eyes in a year a t, shirt and genes sitting I would warn leather coach next to a lit fireplace of every time there is. The partnership with my father does seem to be a bad break, including myself, we're getting a little bit. If you don't mind, disquieted first, As always, I can about your your personal relationship with them and then- you knew of web way and honestly, my personal relations that way was always tenuous. I mean I was the son of the owner Wayne as I would suspect, demeanor and its well known Wayne was my dad's body from I guess. We started work for my dad when he was eighteen at seven up in
from what I guess from what I gather Wayne was involved with some drugs and stuff like that, like weed and drinking it was a pretty hard running crew. I would think back in the days of seven up and dump it Wayne was the guy that supplied. Help from what I understand I mean don't get me wrong. You worked as ass. Often everybody worked hard back then, but that was the main association, but way would also do my dad told him to do if he said be an asshole way, would be an awful if he said steal that steel, Wayne was my dad's Joe boy. I would almost suggest that way was my dad son so to speak. I think that's what my dad looked at him ass, more so let me because I really did not grow up a lot with my father. Basically, whatever my dad wanted done, we would do They were the best friends, the closest friends, and they drank together. They party together just a really good hard draken crew that worked really hard and I get a table some good Bali lines to so don't make it also combat the star
I heard there was a story about when, once without a throw you out of the plant or something to happened, you know what I don't quite Remember never really had a lot dealings with wait. I mean wing was my boss and I was you know I was young seventeen eighteen, oh yeah, I mean I got fired a few times for search for those Amalfi person. I knew my job and it was my dad's basis. Will I probably thought you know but more than I should have back. Then I don't ever recall Wayne actually throwing me out of the plan to use such, small individual and I was a big bruising hockey player, but there I wouldn't have gone I'll. Tell you straight up person that, whatever that I ever feared was my father. I've never feared way to me. He was he was my boss, and I had a duty said because if I didn't do it, he said it be. My paycheck my father most heavily take his side, not mine, regardless, I don't recall ever be thrown out. I deftly was shown into a situation with way through my father, that's for sure, but I don't recall being thrown out
I'm going to tell you something with Wayne. It was never way. I mean working for senior year, you're never in charge, and everybody knew that. He's in charge and not just the way that is better than cure. Relationship with your dad over the years, and what it's like now in my situation with my father now is, is why I live out here. I basically don't want anything to do with him. I had a bad bad business situation with him, he's just money Basically, if he makes money off you no matter who you are, that's just that's all he blew then that's all he wants. I mean I've. I see my father try to destroy. My economists singled out to get our policies was over. I think was like seventy grand. They just blew me away what he would do to him in his own son and his grandchildren, just over seventy thousand dollars on a business deal, a junior claims that when their business relationship ended things got ugly with his dad. I just I just
really. I never seen that side of I've never seen him that angry. I I I just couldn't believe that guy I mean that was like someone. I've never seen and it had blue me away. It is aged. Did that kind of reaction that that happened in that plant? That day, I, like you, basically told me he would give me- would do the same. You kill me. I asked him to go at this to take your best shot. This doesn't end here, I'd I'd. Never seen of that just a little bit about what you're sort of theories of the murder anger about because, first, while the police not to come to talk to you yeah they did, they came to my office. I was in wealth at the time they come and ask me some questions and that basically they wanted hair samples and at tat night I basically flannel toll nice it if you like Can I meet you guys are way off base because I had really didn't have anything to do with surge when I didn't even know what they were doing and I knew it moved on by didn't even know where I had so little contact with that part of my life. I was surprised at the window.
But in a way not a lobbyist for drugs. When I was younger, I remembered them me had a guy that was a big cope dealer. We used to go visit mushrooms, all that kind of stuff in that gentleman was busted justice gotTa Georgetown, so he's a dealer, whether not he had more connections in that I'm not really sure. So, when the police can talk to you. Did they talk to you for a long time today to do a polygraph with you today? I asked you if you killed wound like how did they were they do with you? I just came in ask me certain questions where I was what I was doing, that type of thing they came into my office and they asked me for hair samples. I told him no polygraph. Never came up. First time I heard about a polygraph with my dad bragging about how we took one. I heard that truth, a third party ass was her honestly David with such a nothing thing to me that it was, moreover, of gossip. Moreover, soap, opera thing: that's your thinking, while we can really that somebody might happen, but In all honesty. Weighing did have a habit of pissing alot of people. Often you will tell you
you oughta money. Tell you ghosts, go screw yourselves, so we hope it will not open when we're sue me. In any case, the wrong people. Often there was a lot of talents dealt with at the time, and he was into that water business, which is at the time I think, a little she many times become a doctor and for how long the voice became. It taught me for what that it was one time and maybe twice I mean I maybe talk the police regarding this. Maybe ten minutes, that's it. I was they just never came back ten minutes, that's all I want what that's day we are. I mean obviously with something like that happens. If you had an interview like this, it is something that I would remember and believe me it was just you know. I so busy trying to build my company. Basically they came in. I answered some questions. I bet you. I never talk to them more than ten minutes and then never came back. I basically told him if they listen. If you're looking at me, you guys are way off base. I prefer you not bother me anymore.
And they never bother me again and when was the last time you had seen way like he died December twelve. Ninety six last time I would have seen Wayne would have been ninety three. I think I think ninety two, I think, is what my father took me out of college to come to replace him answered, became up to confederation, college Tommy's business delay was your knees, business and asked me to come back and run it, which I did and actually left me there with Wayne Wayne and Diane. I think I and departed. I think we were together for six months or so, and that was pretty much the last. I seen him because I didn't last too much longer after that myself and my father my father started playing the games on me that was playing on whenever he never lived fulfilled up to his his his promises. To put that way, I think after the second year, ninety four- I was done with my well. I knew waited had his own business at the time about a flashlight and and how it came to pass tat. There was one
that. Other shop again, my my every day, my information on that other flashlight came from daddy. I got a phone call. Daddy was entirely time you have to understand. We close but that other business, basically due to what my father down to us and I gave us no choice, for some reason, Danny had called me up and said: you know what you got called him by the OECD and somebody left a flashlight, very similar sort of thing at our plant, which was right around the corner from my dad's plan. That, quite frankly, was really weird was really different. I would never suspected to see something like that. I don't know who play a job like that, but that strange I couldn't see my father do something like that. Maybe drunk yes,
but he does. I dont know who we hang around with. I dont know its character that what I want to speak, your dad Remo adjustment there now actually often was there. This was in the summer and I guess you haven't organic. I dive and talk to him. I did. I died out the old David I have to say to Sunday. I don't expect every thought came again to tell you the truth. I don't want my children near him or the I want my children there, any part of the family, I paraphrase for a junior the question that was put to his father about who could have done this to wane. Who do you think would have had the smart to pull off killing Wayne grew vat. When you know the first word out of his mouth was Meet Eddie Junior, no way. Well there you go. You know what that's it's amazing that somebody would say like that to me, because if you have heard of anything else, eddies talked about me- that's gets kind of strange, so it's me
cigarette Senora Junior thing. They ve got to tell you something. I've never heard my father point a finger anymore in my life. I've never heard him say anything like that towards anybody, but ran to say that to me quickly gratified at because I asked him. Frankly, are you saying What are you saying your son and he said, oh, no, I mean imbued. He would be smart enough to do it to pieces. Were guy well buddy, I'm going to tell you something hearing something like that. I am utterly amazed because the only difficulties that I had with way we're, through my father and quite frank, We had that. I mean I don't have bad blood in my system. I may I have a pretty good animosity towards my father's. You can see but term just based on what is done to my family, under my sons and and analyses interfered in me raising my children over over time, but Tom while what it's amazing you blew me away. Well, that's interesting gave in it it's funny that that
You ve just blow me away day because, like I said, I never really have any problem with we or or Diane. I was basically that the tool to get rid of weighted Diane. You just you know what to hear something like that. Come out of somebody's mouth, I don't know damn well that I would even have the smarts to do something like that I've never been a violent or been involved in any time when even know how to deal with something, for somebody else is booming away Dave. You could just you just floored me. I know my father's pissed off at me because, basically, I stood finally, in my life- and I don't think that went over well with him, I've always bet I've always been my other whenever he said I would bend last year or the year before that plant I stood up and you know what that different, better judgment. My kids, I probably would beat the living crap out of a guy for what he was doing us. Does he just go then and pushed his way under the plan we rented from him and union. We just egret, just an ignorant person, just could not believe that this person would do this over money to his own son.
They're, not even that I mean I have to young sons that I raised by myself every so that was my living. My father took my living away from me in one day. So, and I say this on camera case- it ever happens- I hope not at their summit. One blow up that be the guy that be the individual. It is in a circle, and you know I'm his son. He would spend more time with the ways of the world, stop that he would with his own family. But that's the way is now No, I mean I parted with way. Honestly, I think even I will tell you that I tried to contact waited to do business with them. When I was with Egypt, which was my company them I've never had I see I never I do say it I mean I've, never had a financial linking to way and with The only problem they read with was basically my father. He promises something money how you just never would give it to you but honest to God. I could not see my father risking his whole life to kill somebody. He seems a lot smarter to me than that.
The latter, let the came with flashlight in wines package. There did you know what the letter said. I know what the rumor it said. I can tell you that from what I understand I heard, and what I got told was this made, then maybe this be the last flashlight you'll ever need. That's what was told to me that I dont know. I also heard that his son went to open it first or try to get running in that he took it away from him. Cuz it's d, couldn't get it to go on. That's that's doing things thing that I've. That's all right! Let us, published its public domain now, so you can access it. Oh I don't know I you know, I could even tell you what it said. What did say it says something like says: may never have to buy another flashlight right and did names Lee Joe in their Joe LISA as the Secretary Absurd right, yeah and Joe Joe Joe teach what have been the delivery guy right now. It name there.
Gather named, and then I have no idea what their social minutes but look at my dad is underway. We name M going think they were released was at sir at search at the time. That's correct here, but all Joe Joe Joe Giuseppe, I reckon I know Joe as I remember me, living a trailer again. Farmers, some like that they were like all tight there is this is this. Is the goal boy go? Do this boy? I just wonder why the letter would have been written in the first place. You know why were the bomb be sent in the first place, why not just run him over or shoot him or beat him up and kill him that way like why I bomb what kind of person do you think send flashlight this category B, what kind of person says I say from I understand, came out of action is correct, but that delivered from the act and milk milk postal Service something I can't that I heard it was bailed out of action, which made me thought about my father,
But then I thought you know I'm just too to close for comfort. There tat, I think, to Hamley would be relieved to hear you say similarly to what your dad said. Just a kind of are not going to say that I mean I to me. I don't need to say something that is just so obvious by what I will tell him in his. I never ever wished their family or wait harm or anybody dead in my life, even to the extent that my father's tree me in ways done me in my life. I already Watch him dead, I'm incapable of which he anybody dead. So No, I did not have anything to do with the murder of weighing of it and you know what kind? Frankly, I'm I'm, I'm quite surprised at nobody's, found out what's on, yet they blow me away that that in this country that we can find out This confirms that came from within the industry. Then almost definitely. I believe that I do believe that this death was out of a bad deal within the industry of maybe
somebody putting down a large down payment on honoured on a packaging job it could have in their life savings and they basically it didn't, come to fruition, which is why said if you can get a look at their dirt invoicing and who they cause in our business. If you did a million dollar job, you get five hundred thousand dollars up front to do it, and there is a lot of mom and pop out their people that sunk all their money into this new product, and if you took that money and it didn't pan out that person's broke, you understand and you take somebody's savings that could cause a lot of you we'll do a lot of crazy things? Okay, so I'll probably be in touch with you again and thanks very much for your time and I've heard from some people that Eddie at least Eddie of the past looks like one of the men from the police sketches I have no way of proving whose in these sketches one way or the other, without someone coming forward with personal knowledge
I have also heard about other acquaintances, who look like one of the men scene at the act and post office asking for we address. I have their names, and I continue to seek them in person over the phone by writing them letters. Eventually, I am hopeful. I can speak with each of these people to see images of the girl that case, including the intriguing police sketches of the men from acting the letter. To wane and other evidence visit. The s S website, a W W W Dot Cbc I see a slash s k S. Giovanni knows that I mean I just felt so Lowood they're trying to figure out what happened and why somebody would want to do
To Us- and you know it's a strange thing unless you ever been put in that position- I think kids kind of just realized how much work energy I'd put into it over the last twelve years and their hurt. That? I feel inside that I was unable to come up with anything and they felt that it was the return to step up and have we get anywhere this time. I don't know, what's going to happen, I don't know how much more any of us can take really does go through. All this again and again Then again, I figure some day. Maybe you know when this could get all settled, then we find out I might be able to arrest enough, and it will be all about we anymore, it might be about me.
Now the kids in what's good for me and with that I head back to the farm with Diana Daniele. Tell us reminds me of course, background so beautiful. Figure pretty short time. We lived in here and you didn't get much time here. No, you didn't,
Everything from there was just big gigantic struggle, since we tried everything to try and keep on to this place and hold on to it in a week hours upon hours the two of us to try and reject try for four years, whose hard look so different I dont understand any of us
really want to go back to the Springs Euro spot that you can hear it. You can hear the water here it. It's the little things you know like in the corner there there's tiger lilies and over there there was huge, huge marigolds like massive marigold. We solve these gigantic parties and big outside gatherings, and we used to have a big corn roast, and this is what my dad, failed to have our corner ass? He took the bottom of this and he made this stand
and this sad over the fire and we used to take pillow cases full of corn and weed slap them in with a rope on it back in the day when we used to live here. This was all. Like just feels it was all just grass, that's all it was. I mean there was so much open space here that you could just walk forever. Pretty even imagine you know why why we would be doing right now he was still live, we'd have everything going. The wider we weren't looking to be big huge
between people. You know sad story is get out of here. Depressing before we part Daniele tells me she has something else to say: I have to wonder if somebody is sitting there, knowing information that could help us through this turmoil. I have wonder if they're not feeling guilty that they haven't I'm forward, because at the end of the day. You know your conscience we'll eat away at you and I think, that's important you know to do some good out of them.
Formation that you know this is our real life. Too easy nowadays to to pass it off like it's just a movie. I'm afraid that people do that and forget why they're watching it in the first place, watching it to catch a murder, a real one, who really kill somebody in really horrible way in front of his family. I don't want that to be lost in the mix. it's not lost in the mix, but it's an impasse. Simple story to here without it feeling, like a movie, thing. We can turn off or eat popcorn to put yourselves in the shoes of this family, and, if anything, you
heard sounds familiar or thank you know something about winger vats, murder, now's, the time send us an anonymous message at Ashcombe yes, said CBC dossier or call your life, co police station, have received some tips that I continue to look into that I'm for I can report on soon you have been listening to episode: five Junior, Visit CBC dossier, Slash S, K S for photos of Corvette Family home. The surrounding property, Someone know something is hosted, written and produced by David Region
the series is mixed by sessile Fernandez and produced by Chris Oak step. Camp are modelled judge, Yunus, Kim and executive producer hour of need money are theme, song is higher by Lanka Krakus. Baby, playing. Yeah, two pans You age, tapes,
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.