Patrick Sumner was arrested and charged with Kerrie's murder, but discharged after a preliminary hearing. He has never spoken to the media to give his side of the story. Until now.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a c podcast. The followed Problem contains mature, subject matter, listening Discretion is advised you are listening to someone know something from CBC part casts in season. Five David region travels north to Thomson Manitoba to investigate. Nineteen. Eighty six murder of carry brown. This is episode. Ten Sumner. I was repugnant in island after carried out I'll be damned Patrick Sunder does a walk in
no other times my eyesight and it was dark in the environment and it wasn't all MIKE Mike. The proprietor of the apartment tells me he's not pat and when I hear is full I hear that that name. I merely put two together, as I'm sitting seemed the same day. Charges been charged murder and I say to my body I gotta go places was rising, I gotta go and I walked out of the It is in the hallway- and he said what the hell's rising don't do that as we know that Patrick Summer was discharged and did not proceed to trial after as February nineteen. Eighty seven preliminary hearing for the first degree murder of carry brown. Dna testing does not appear to have linked similar to the scene or the murder, and I've discovered other possible suspects avenues that may well have been overlooked, but it's still possible for Trevor, and perhaps many who have
the case over the years to not suspect Patrick Sumner, much less be in a room with them. Some nerve threatened to kill him once from a car with my friends- we're all in the parking lot of chicken chef, and he walked out. The girl that I was in high school with and started yelling. Do you know that you're walking with a murder crisis? based on what I believe to be true- and I said If I get my fuckin housing, I'm gonna kill you fucker and my friends would not let me out of the bacteria that car I was angry as the closed again to get me. And I think must have dreams about fighting a wake up sweating part yeah. I was sitting anger fry internalized. It Does it on- and I told you that another a pacifist, but I have a special place inside there. For these people and its not nice,
but I want to do them. Well, maybe you get a chance to ask the questions that you have in your head, I'd like to speak to Patrick Summer myself here his Story of the night carry disappeared in the aftermath, probe further, Does he know something see there. I know my dad's ask me actually thinks he's going to talk to him, and I said I hope so my dad says I don't. I don't think he's going to my dad's still believes you know something and the cops will tell you that he knows something, but they can't connect into that crime. Scene the sitting here on Patrick Saunders hopes waiting for. Opportunity gone. Try to talk to him. He's really
think of an Enigma in this case. Trevor help we find this address and since then I've been back at all times the day to try to find the right opportunity for non through approach some summers alone. I think I'll wait until Patrick's mother leaves the premises, am I make it easier for him to talk. It doesnt have somebody knows around Maybe a long wait, but,
the situation soon changes the project address Zeller, says some friend had a child. I've just watched summers, mother pull out of the driveway, then a person, I'm certain, is Sumner himself wearing a great tank. Talk shorts and sandals appears in the front yard. Now would be the best chance he's got inside. I didn't have time to grab my full recording set up, so I'm approaching seminars place with my phone and a voice recorder going Sumner just went back inside his home. It's a semi, detached house located down the road from one of the last remaining active, mind, shops and Thompson.
I pass what looks like a brand new Blue Ford Mustang in the driveway and for the door. Sorry I regard he denies them behave shutters hurries trees and just like that, because neither of us wanted Booker the dog to escape I'm inside Patrick Sumner. So with the door closed were at the bottom of a flight of split level. Stairs and Booker is bustling and friendly at our feet. Patrick David, and I were for a CBC. I wanted to see if you can help me out on the ground case.
I want you to talk to me about like how how you got over and now, please, my card, so I get Sumner seems agitated and not quite ready to deal with me so He turns away and walks down the stairs. Yes, PTSD there every day right does he go. I follow women. We move into a room with a couple of coaches, a bicycle leanings, against one blue doglike and on the other, and a large tv there's a bedroom after the right with a giant Wolf said image on the bedspread Sumner heads laughed too a kitchenette and lighter cigarette he's not very tall about five foot night with blue eyes and a course light brown mustache he puts on it,
pair of glasses and starts shuffling through some papers. I see strewn across a small breakfast table, spread out on the table. Are various articles copies and originals about the brown case. Sumner? Had no idea was coming, and I think these been here for a while some remarks. With doodles and writing in the margins and high later it was sort of in here where I said, and they didn't think I just had it sitting there. Cuz I've been making some notes. It's you writing that. Did you write that just wrote this other? Where did your Sumner arguing back at the claims of the past thirty years in solitude, Are you got paper right here with a story vertical picture? That last?
one of the headlines I can see is from a photocopy of a Thompson newspaper dated March nineteen. Seven that reads some freed after preliminary hearing the words Not her. Hair are printed in blue ink with an exclamation mark So this is a paper that use mark up here. S ear they say there saying heroism which was not true. Experts and they found was under the factory carpet. Herr that had some likeness to carries hair according to Marilyn Simmons, whose that information came out during the preliminary hearing possess what was setting court and under the factory carpet under the factory carpet of his car, implying that it would have been there from the date of manufacture. Detective John,
toast told me that a crown witness testified that there were a number of hairs that were removed from the vehicle there were consistent. With Carryin Brown with her hair, a toast, also says he didn't actually here this testimony, because he was a witness himself and he acknowledged that her analysis, isn't always reliable, but that's what I mean these are lies the newspaper printed back to the art. Calls on summers kitchen table so on your table use looking at this all the time or no, I just sitting there making some note. This is from March. Second, eighty seven in another, part of the same article I section to go to witness. Testifying, is x, toad and yellow and has the words outright lie. Predator, underneath a detail about stains the same blood type. Is areas is altered so that it now reads dad's t shirt. Instead of some t shirt
some their shirt which dad wrote that thereby Saunders teeth. During the hearing period is determined not my shirt, not her blood, Yet they still voted in the papers. That was my shirt. According to Sumner, a t shirt was seized by the Arcy MP during a search of his home it. Discovered in his parents. Laundry hamper and Patrick's mother told officers that it belonged to her husband. The shirt had modern it, but Sumner says it was his dad's blood caused by pimples on his back, my daddy. Pray the lot bigger to me at that time. This morning meeting he was probably wearing extra large. Was his undershirt get pimples on his back. The article that summer has been marking up, has a slightly different version of the story and a possible erroneously reported one paying the shirt was Patrick's that small stains matched carries blood type and that
larger stains, matched summers, father type as hers but no medication, alcohol in the blood on shirt which they would know from, or so they knew when they went to work, but that wasn't my shirt, but they still presented it as though it was so they misled the court accordingly. Sumner and in the absence of a hearing transcript, the blood was veal to not be carries and in truth, mustn't have been because if it was, someone would be in jail or the case would have at least proceeded to trial, This is eighty seven Marjorie, seven after the brilliant yeah dear papers that you ve got your written on or notes that united at that eleven o see those religious little stuff.
Have you ever had anybody here really interview you about all that you're kidding nobody's ever interviewed you about that Sorry, I think they tried to early on a little bit, but it was like I wanted them to fucking figure it out. So I can keep my mouth shut. Nobody safe for police at the time has interview, Patrick Sumner Basic. Why really interested in talking about, because I think you'd think of Wednesday sit down and chat, cumnors trying to bail, or at least reschedule, I would enjoy a proper energy with a better recording set up, but I don't no waste this opportunity and I try to keep I'm interested in talking
I gotta go sorry, that's ok! maybe later tonight, or if your interested I'd like you to a real good interview with you, and I think you would benefit from holding whatever's on your mind about the case, I was afraid unaided. Even an hour of your timely like to me if you talk to me in a longer and your view than the story will be no but That's because I which they would fear, did in reality. I just wish they would figure it out what I mean, what was the main reason that they kept focusing on? What was the main have to really I have asking the police about their focus on Patrick Sumner since the beginning and I've heard from shines.
Once that he still nine out of ten sure. That's Sumner was who he sought at night and ass. Far as the air and peer concerned, Patrick Summit, still hasn't been completely ruled out. Robert urban ascii and I'm I am reluctant to say anything about Pat Sumner. I think it's clear when you look at the judge. At the time at the preliminary inquiry said there simply wasn't enough evidence to proceed to trap. It's not a finding of guilty or not going just not enough evidence, and you have to go back to square one NGO. Would we missing you just gotta figure out who's got that name and I think You know that I might my impression here is that urban ascii is referring to Sumner. As that person, John Toast, also equivocate, on his feelings about Patrick Summer
between, of course, your discharge carrying oil, Sancho Quitted court Deryck s community had shortly when she was not found guilty. With regard to the page, I just said that we didn't have enough evidence to proceed to trial about point. We certainly did not establish a convention, but you know the legal system. God, rest country Dennis healed. You still have your doubts about him. Do you think the Patrick summit? might know something. You're still humdinger, and constable of all Jana marrow, like I said before, I thought. I Kimberly, narrowed down or suspect pool. I would say that it still quite fast at this point in time, so
I can't say at this time whether anybody really has been eliminated. So butter is- and I would say still anybody is pretty- is pretty much in the pool that was involved or possibly sorry brought up as being part of the investigation, back at Patrick Summers place. I try to get into summers alibis, always one of the most important parts of any investigation you at all Vice? For that night we were told to go well I was with people earlier, yes, women and then a couple guys and then my parents, so what the tires at the time carryin would have been murdered. You were with her parents, coral from what I understand from what you remember their questions No, but you rather polices questions that times. I see a very early evening. I was elsewhere and I could show I see I wish I could pay.
Further here by since that time is limited, and I don't want to. Eve without asking the obvious question. So this is your opportunity to say like unequivocally when I asked the question: did you haven't aiming to do? No absolutely with killing, Grand browns rates, absolutely not Would you every contemplate such a thing, no power it doesn't make sense. Come now comes to an end with Patrick insisting that it isn't a good time for him but agreeing theoretical Is it with Sumner comes to an end with Patrick system that it isn't a good time for him, but agreeing radically to an interview at a later date and care. And have a good day. I don't know we can get together and you can chat and will have the eleven other MIKE and anyway, thanks very much quicker
I found somewhere to be open, but perhaps overly focused on details of the case. Rather than a bigger picture. The hair, the father sure the bloodstains proving he didn't do it by catching mistakes that he says police or prosecutors made. I tried Imagine how it must have been four Sumner under the investing it glare of suspicion over thirty years ago. I still can't leave. Nobody is energy item about it yeah, Sumner plus one thing I wanted to chat about with you. So gonna see Patrick and talk to him quite a bit. I've come back to touch base with German Trevor about my first meeting, but I still feel that I need to ask a few more questions. It a few more
Direct results I saw many times is DNA did not match. Shoal, maybe did change something. Maybe it was there at some point. I love I thought, or maybe there's some weird parallel part to the story where he plays an initial role, innocent role, not I want to go back so then. This question is: what's the best approach with this guy? When do you think If you think there's something he hasn't said that he made the new magazine, so it's like That's what I'd want to get another stab at an end not sure. If anything. I can do, is better than does knocking on the door. I'm doing
Two months later, I have an opportunity to see. Sumner again, and time again inside his home following come down to his apartment. He heads for the kitchen at before the main goal is to help Sumner feel comfortable enough to tell me his view of events? as much detail as possible. To hear of Egypt? Jordan preface brunch he finishes stirring it all up on the stove, and I wait from to finish eating and drinking is vitiate a tomato based vegetable juice, which he's just poured from above. Into a glass, with every meal. The eight the reason I was arrested funny, but not funny,
reason that you say you were arrested because there is the av before the my lunch. From that day was there? Is the aid on the floor right of your team can launch size the reason is dangerously wasn't black According to some New John Toast use the vegetable. Do Spain as a pretext to make an arrest saying that he believes it to be blood, despite the empty, can sitting next to it a thorough search of summers car was conducted, but as far as I can hell from my interviews. No actual blood was found and if he did wash his car all day as Rowley and others have stated, this state must have come afterwards, but I'll get the car washing later people Didn't compensated for
Jerry Duty Post, traumatic stress here. Those were horrified pictures. Try me in the eye either accusing horrify pictures here is about some. You didn't do so choose Yes, you're not considered a victim southerners care? rascal walks over and jumps up beside me on a couch nursling the MIKE go ahead, Gimme, a sense of who you are a lost soul
I'm the guy that was wrongly accused in the death of carry brown in nineteen. Eighty six. I'm not sure what else I can tell you that the fact of the matter, what was it that brought police to you and your mind? What was there? piece of evidence far as I know, false statement, test Finally, could I can't remember his name, one of the young fellows in the trap, the guy driving, but because a him. What supper. Sumner is referring here to Sean Simmons who, along with Larry Lee Part, testified about the vehicles. They saw emerging from a stable roads. The night carry was killed.
Simon, says, he's ninety percent sure he saw summer behind the wheel of a car that look like the one Sumner owned. I have, no reason to disbelieve or disavow summonses recollections I've, not will the verify what leopard might have seen that night, and while I am not aware that either Simmons orderly part made any kind of false statement I do now that Larry Lee part was in the passenger seat and according to those points, the preliminary hearing, he now forgot a good look at the driver of the muscle car. That past among the right. That's the only reason that I can figure the police bothered me. I don't know what else the driver of the truck told me He said it was a nine out of ten in his mind that he saw you in the car
driving by still says it's nine out of them? If you believe something in your mind, you gonna believe it. I guess again. I wish a transcript of the preliminary hearing existed. It would have been in vain able to compare what was said thirty years ago to what's being remembered. Now still there would be a lot of things I couldn't help with Patrick says he. He didn't testify at the hearing. You didn't ask for Nowhere in Egypt. It is normal for defendants not to testify on their own behalf, preliminary hearings and sometimes during trials, so did you ever have to provide? This is one thing I was unclear about. Did you ever have to provide through your lawyer, your whereabouts. On that night. No, no, I gave statement for that
long before I was even under arrest, told where was who, with whatever So far, seminars recollection seem formed in the bitterness of seeing him, so offers a victim, and maybe he is victim and innocent The bottom line is, I need details and facts that can serve as proof where was he the night carry was murdered. What are the same mistake? Oh god, where I wasn't Is you remember the basics of with it was clear, She says that we might have the time a little bit off. He might have been at the store a little earlier than we thought, but yeah. She sought me for a cup You weren't here in France turn war winners in the bay yet dropped her job. Friends house near that will too. His rash outside in his car Lindsey encourages the timing
Ride for coffee and that's you dropped in to be around eighty thirty say: dropped her off the foreign aid where there ok, such as, I think, we're at the burnt with any further show you're at the bird would with Linsey and Courtesy Curtis Deadlock. I later found out passed away in July, two thousand sixteen so high he's no longer much help as an alibi terms. Jim and I made a long series of calls to try to find some there's other friends Lindsey Lang, but so far no luck and then a longer stay there. I had one piece: I think they had to furnish me too. While they were buying, so I was at the money I go to school and then I went and then you say that you are never anywhere outside of the town or I'll. I was at the top. Ok, but you didn't go to MR, like road not way then go past, cemetery Roeder no stable roam at all, so then
you got home? What time was that he eyes service for ten by ten for sure, when I'm pressure was before that I cannot remember TAT. I had no reason to missus out there the night, the sixteenth, that's what they were asking me about when carried disappeared. I guess and was murdered, recall that according to police and possibly based on the timing of the vehicle Simmons Report, seeing carry with killed some time between midnight and one a m, so you're saying you were home before ten around here, but I am at the latest. And what happens when you get home, you mean normal day, likewise is our home and sour made lunch for school. The next day at a bedtime snack went to bed. Eleven was there's someone here almost home and then dad showed up. Oh the guy, It was still on in extracting say yes here,
and I came home by eleven to catch the news. Which was an arm of the pact mention. Seeing a baseball game on the night of Thursday October, sixteenth, recalled all the channel showing the play off came, which was going into extra innings. He had said something, This effect, when I saw him before just prior to me, leaving so out of it, best. I asked one of my producers almost knowledge to look in this for me. It s nothing Thompson. I just need confirmation. Then eighteen, eighty six world Series took place between the New York mats and the Boston Red Sox. I asked him to check, If there was a game on the night, Carry was murdered on the fifteen. Sixteen. No, they didn't play
thanks network three statements, article greatly, the series started October, eighteenth, yet ok. So what baseball was on on simulated game? Six minutes rose. What the citizens are not extra running off, Toby Toby, fifteen, on the fifteenth Yemen and was there in game on television on the sixteenth. Now, there's no games and sixty sixty percent. After travelling, traveled, a ok with no baseball. Silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, Raquel, O Brien, as she attempts to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret.
The seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Rico and her family as they discuss their past for the first time. What emerged was a much larger story. Here, silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast. According to my producer, there was no baseball game on tv. The night carry was killed, so this was a baseball game. Now I look. The baseball game was on the Wednesday night in extra innings but there was no baseball game on the Thursday night, we'll lose some more see there again How do you remember something? You have no reason to remain no reason to remember I'm not. What to do with this Patrick says: he's not a baseball fan. He just remember
the game going and Ex trainings on tv. Perhaps he just cause using it with Wednesday night came, but that's my best rattling Anaheim. What were you doing? The Friday today till four I was at school when home grab a shower like to eat, probably went out by about six or so, but the player with the caffey. The travellers, for while the Caspian too by the head frame, went therefore drink stamp laughed so we have to stand in my later right. No car wash handwriting no time, and I believe the weather was not conducive Really, I told me he'd seen Sumner washing his car for an inordinately long period of time on Friday October, seventeenth, some doesn't deny that he washed his car, but insist
It was on the Saturday because it was a nice day. Winter was set men, I just figured out, might be my last chance actually wash it upside. I was in Washington everything just freezes up, so I watched it because it was a nice day Saturday, prior to that, not sure but Friday, but I know prior to that most last that week it was freezing rain little bit snow, minus ten. The chairs. So there is no way you are using a garden house outside it was frozen. It was a nice day Saturday. I was off yeah at about in the driveway traffic. Going back for me, because I was trying to hide then you're watching the Interior and the Exchequer Wash, no way down, we knows he's too,
died through the window, so I watched the inside of the window, but as yet backing the floor whenever, so it was a nice day, so you can return cleaning my time, one that came up and the freedom of the car washing, I don't know- maybe I think you did you Did it was relevant because it look suspicious ankara, they were trying to make it. Look that we're. I guess that's what they're their effort was tool. He felt suspicious than its suspicious for anyone who watched a car that day well whether it was at home and you go away or whether it was added car wash an item? I will be in high traffic washing my car, think it's a public facility dump many by your car from road I think it was a guy that work for him.
They tell me that I was I mean when literally. I saw their after Gaia. Ok, he told may that is trashed since that time. Have you had any run ends with the law or any kind of charges are vital. Once against you any kinds. Oh yes, I've heard false charges on this and that they have now with Erasmus. I was pulled over one time, they didn't even asked me for my license or registration or nothin girlfriend. Nevertheless, in passenger seat Iraq Concern- or you came out- are you sure They are the charges that you were level that you use in the past. Have they been regarding violence, I pulled over lots of times. Foreign press, Eliza just apply I've never had an apparent charge.
But any of the charges that you were level that you use in the past have they been regarding violence or assault guess what That was the same girl I was living with. Whenever you I was or whatever Well, what was the salt? I dont have a record. Let's put it that way, based criminal record when was that check ups I guess so. A record check for is Sumner does Chauvinist data July six. Ninety ninety two, which resulted in an absolute discharge shortly thereafter, in February nineteen, ninety three Patrick was placed under a one year, peace a peace bond, a similar to a restraining order and is often used by those who are afraid that someone will harm the more damage to property. Two resulted in an absolute discharge. Should
thereafter. In February ninety three he was charged. Ninety three Patrick was placed under a one year, peace, a charge that the more to a restraining order and is often used by those who are afraid that someone will harm the more damage to property Sumner. Pierce to have violated this peace bond in July of nineteen. Ninety three, he was too. With uttering a threat to cause death or bodily harm, a charge that was staid and charged with mischief for which he had to pay a fine? He was then placed under an eighteen month. Conditional discharge, it does like a lot, but most of the charges were dropped. You talk to me from one I understood from talking to you, sir. We still are leading you to believe. I have something to do with this to this day, Thirty, two years later, even though their own investigation basically refused.
Their investigation. Concerning me anyway, what it is, as one police last place, if they still, suspicion about Patrick Sumner? The answer is always given, as he's not been excluded, causing. Really, so DNA doesnt exclude them when They don't wanna tee, but dna It does include somebody for sure hundred percent doesnt at school see. That's it! Isn't that a double standard you to meet the dna, sting. Did you ever voluntarily give police your dna? why? Just so, knowing it was there knowing it was for dna test. You pull her it's got a skin Paul upon it, they're getting well agency. When it was four, but that was actually my idea after
three hours or so is. What do you want from me? You must I have something to go on some evidence. What do you want you don't wanna believe me and I can't make you what do you want So it was my idea, and this will give us a really yeah. I've been telling you four hours. I have nothing to do with. This will help you eliminate me as a suspect. What do you want me to put the one they asked us in here? You go under arrest not charged didn't, have to give Murphy certain? we have had two after his charge. Not that day my lawyer would have said right, You never get blood to them. No! Ok! I asked him, time and nineteen eighty six dna testing was in its infancy, so any gathering then, would have been prescient. Thinking on the part of police. Somerset as that, when he was locked up for the first few weeks with opening able
Russia's teeth an office, They gave him some gum depression is breath, then asked him to spit it out. So he thinks could also be a source of dna collection from him. I asked in late at that time I said like what you want. I don't know anything about the science of it, but I mean exactly saliva, what what do you want they can do so if they ask for what they want. You would give attend today, You have it all It wasn't until the ninety ninety one dna became a centrepiece of criminal investigation that are Mp began, collecting samples in earnest from people. Regarding the very brown investigation. Yeah Sumner moves on to talking about John Toast one of these. Original investigators simply didn't do his job plain and simple
In my interview with John Toast, I asked him about the interrogation techniques used with Patrick Sumner. What kinds strategies. Would you use when you're questioning people say, like Patrick Methodology, that save as anybody else? What we're doing investigated your goal only going out to obtain any evidence sharing our major that's going further investigation back. We The only answer I can give you people are personalities. Personalities may require different approaches. Different personalities require different approaches, his own words more talk confessed life's over anyway before you ever see me before in his life. Never talk to me, yet even and he had decided at that point in time. I was it nothing more. I could do it's unknown of toast say this to Sumner, but it's not uncommon police to use a variety of techniques to try to get a confession? Detail
One point: in order to do you think it through you say it doesn't make itself. I just don't: do your job you'll find out IRAN? I was pretty much toward the end of it. Finally, some useful did you have a lawyer present during any about colonel had nothing to hide, told him. Repeatedly. I guess it was my idea. What do you want from me? everyone- I don't know how much more. I could, of course, I could did you meet than a He was there to hold time making notes to bees and about simply it carry, done their own hole on the ground. I guess that's what I mean I don't know I was to put it right.
It doesn't sounds into it. I steer the conversation back to Sean Simmons and the allegations made by him and his mother Marilyn that their vehicle was being followed. One of the witnesses, the driver in the red truck and his mother actually said that some of their family members were following them around. After this all happened really behind their red truck Oh yeah, I didn't know the track so good, so that wasn't you may be caught. They're follow me around toss, healed, follow heels, family car Venus and your brothers at the time in your dad near neither of them. Following that, I had no idea the rhetoric I was with them. I was with them to whom vehicles you don't know. Women would, whether you would be equivalent to visitors.
Neither do I dont think you did Patrick head You, older brothers, Shane and Kelly hoop died recently in two thousand thirteen anti thousand fourteen. Her father robbers died and two thousand sixteen Your brothers have driven your car that might not be lifted. And they have access to it. They ever driven. It knew no actually who stood at once but he was up here from out of town with first son. Did your brother's look like you, Not really there both already by land half bald. I must admit that it lasted area but that they have moustaches. I don't recall But let me tell you the truth. I figure if someone else had access to your car, something for them, family member, Robin Boy, but no,
did you have anything to do with, carries disappearance, absolutely nothing to do care murder, absolutely nothing. And do you know anything about the murder? Do you know anything about other than me being forced to use? No, Do you know anybody who was their whatsoever no don't know any of her friends. Any of them It's not at no party on trout. That was not a group of people. I knew You weren't, driving in that area at all, no, not even know nobody else had access to her. I'm pretty sure they didn't have alarm even background. Ok, I put an alarm in it from Radio Shack I saw some photos from the crime scene that the RCMP actually shared with one of the picture shows a footprint, so a shoe print.
Recall that, through our analysis of the shoeprints founded the crime scene, we felt it looked similar to the poor I turn on the soul of a nineteen eighty three times Ten, eighty six Adidas brand names, the Concord or centennial the size is estimated to be at least a. U S, men's eight or nine, but could be longer because the heel of the print cannot be fully scene. Was her shoe size so help? Oh god, I intend to eleven depending on the ground My gas tend to live, so pretty big feet for a shorter guy then, would have been ten. Maybe fur gained a bit since then life. Have you feed about? We do you get heavier, will attend the overtime but and, like my shoes, loose though for the most part maybe wear a size size, nine after ten, I would say, may be. Then
ten and a half at tops depending on who made them. I guess it was the kind of shoes that you like to wear hose the brand that you like. Oh god, why don't? We were just sneakers? I wear all the time God. Don't remember: that's what I were all the time. Tower. You're like five eight maybe night, maybe not oh you're doing is helping with the investigation by talking right now, that's all age, to do right from the start that our cooperation as a lot of effort, was put into trying to take you through the system, Important, though, that what we are actually the good stated you hadn't, region, even to arrest him. I ask again about Patrick's alibis, Curtis, Linsey and Clare, None of those people statements were submitted are put into the prison. Oh,
Some Linsey went down there. When I found I was arrested in, they were told to go away and clarity was involved in car, so, according to Patrick Clare, do Bay was. Never called as a witness. So I called her myself. Oh, I can I debate things: making Clara monies David, rigid Claire Henderson do Bay, a realist. They'd agent in Thompson. I spoke to Patrick Sumner up and he had mentioned that you, with him on Octopus, sixteenth night, indeed six and on a pipeline teeth yeah. So can you tell me about that ok, my up, I'm at my, were, like bats grant. He was going to school or a mechanic down the road from where I work, though, just about every day we went for lunch
on the day that carry disappear. Clare asked Patrick Sumner to come with her to welcome a local discount department store here. Cuoco is a subsidiary of war worse and has gone by both names. So this may be why Sumner told me that he and Clare went to war worse that day I put a coach and chair on layaway that might actually it was the first time I have a good thing to pick. It up learned spaceport, one type of openly until nine o clock. Between seven and nine, probably by finally got I would bear with took up or closing and then what happened tonight. We want to help you drink at them. Then I had got me off at home. Personally, I would have stayed out later, but I had gone home a bit early that eight, I think I had stuff to do for working order.
Back up a bit so the Thursday night, when you went out after you, went to the walk out to get the furniture gap. Where did you go and time did you arrive and what time did you leave on the Thursday applicant question? I will believe what about right there between nine and ten to panic? What about the had great at that point, and I dont know where it probably was brown. Thus creating a level of thirty. Probably that I had laughed reporter. I guess I'll go He dropped you off at home. You said yeah yeah, and finally, our leader than that. I got me a long time ago. All my plea statement, though, and do you recall any of the other explanations for whereabouts, sort of after he dropped you off? Do you remember what he told you we did after dropped, you off area. He went after the bar and how to pay more drinks, and then he went home. Ok, I was the Thursday night
so there's some major discrepancy here? Clare that Sumner dropped her off between eleven and twelve thirty, perhaps earlier. But summer says he dropped her off around eighty eight thirty and that he was definitely home by eleven. Both agreed you didn't go directly home afterwards. Heading back to the bar instead so depend on the timing. Sumner could still be unaccounted for around the time that care We went missing between eleven thirty and midnight, at least by his and debates alibis. Ok So then Patrick took you home. Where did you live at the time? A road? I paint road, ok, an old trainer court, paint road and the old trailer corridors in the more southerly area of Thomson. Just under three columns there are six main drive from where carry was at Trode Avenue,
If Sumner went to the burnt would bar after dropping Clare off. That would take him back into the downtown where he would still have been about two kilometers from Trode Avenue. Ok, ok, you don't remember driving with Patrick out around the area of the stables that night? Oh definitely not a guarantee of labour out there. At the next day we were together for lunch. He wrote example. What will this morning but would have on Friday. Seventeen to you are talking about a young anywhere. He had an exam that morning tab. We went for lunch after a I never got out for drink that might drink cigarette yeah. We're part figure out there. Were you like the globe to worry about our functional club? so, according to clear it was a run up to a weekend like any other, a few drinks on Thursday, another night at the bar on Friday,
and she implies that summer was in school. During a time. Rowley says he saw washing his car on the Friday, but then on the Saturday word began to spread through Thomson that a local girl I've been murdered bomb. At that point in time, I what I heard what had happened- I was just only two years younger than I was that, like it's hard to believe that'll happen in our community. I really had noble godfather, provide still feeling bad for the family and friends and wondering what had happened to her till they powder, and then the cops had picked up path that when I called out to what degree that they thought I was involved because TAT I will talk to did from everyday together and I couldn't find a vital
Mamma S. Mom told me no pleasure, like the cops came on picked him up like the oak, and I would like to sell them. It was hard to see how we can get it the jail, the ghost I know what the hell is going on and beyond. I don't. I know it was already having to be when they keep the cock. Me clear tells me that Our sea impede visitor at her family home parking, their squad current driveway and conducting the interview there there theory at that point in time at which they Toby was that I was very similar to carry brown hair, Cholerick, fine age and gather theory per constable post was that have had an ongoing crush I'd, be it, but she was never even the two approach. I guess I don't know what the right priorities for it and his aspirations over be. Was why
he went after Carry Brown, supposedly, which I knew was total bullshit, that my best friend comply with fifty years old and down with people like they were grasping at straws. I was just totally shocked that time, but the theory was unexplained motors away like a big fat concurred, a dog he Kicker dog, for God's sake, is one of the most beautiful people that I know where he can't let the table here no like you'd have to be like to be able to do what somebody did about poor girl does not fair did you ever wondered if Pat not that he was involved but might have seen something and it had to be quiet because he was afraid eight or did you I get the feeling tat might have been there, but didn't didn't Partizan
but saw something, no, not at all. Now he couldn't. I know how the cop that what the last interview I have with them- but I doubt was six months old she's now, twenty three, they call me- and I was just I back. We again, they told me how about my statement was accomplished. The good path and how that anything that did more damage stated that good diet refused. The changes. Tat Isabel here do our part statement but beyond shirt, so they had a file they spent around that want to open the bilingual or basic philosophy.
Both sides of the guidelines at that point in time I lost my temper, I told them I didn't to pardon my language told them. I don't give a fuck about which my father out of it, if I had done it, I would say so because they should be punished, plain and simple dollars. My last interview with I've never heard from them again seas. I was after they had taken place made already, DNA Purview long before that than they had done? The dna? Four hundred? Some people, or whatever I know about happened because the dna from my late husband a number of our bread. I
No idea what happened that night? All I know, is a picture. I was sure bird no fuckin way in the world. It was one person did back to her more than one above I mean I was absolutely and whoever did it should replace the clearly. Nobody and gods greener deserve to be done to them and at the cold, hearted bastard such do that should be dead. I knew something You did that to another human being. I don't care who they are. They should pay very still friends with oh yeah, the act How did the whole thing affect your friend, Pat screwed? It's late
hands down, but next morning he got that examined eager even started class. At eight, you wrote that exam godlike ninety some percent about exam. He was half way. If not more done, man your court and to be picked up, he never finished the court is thrown in jail. He was after five percent of the community like he got dirty Luxembourg comments. Some people not knowing any better believing all the other thing people are saying so a lot of people. Probably had a thief, I think he's guilty. I mean it's done his life from future being able to gain meaningful employment and prompt from where you want to look after they with his family should ever be piper somebody out there that should pay dearly for a young girl flight.
Where do they speaks forcefully of her friend, Patrick Saunders innocence? She was with him from. The evening carry disappeared, but possibly not for the crucial time period. When carry would have been actually murdered, a different approach to Sumner may help draw more information out a first ever meeting with Trevor Brown. As I have asked for more CBC original podcast go to sea BC, dossier, slash original podcast,
Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.