David tracks down the civilian phone operator who says she received a suspicious phone call the night Kerrie disappeared.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a c podcast. The following The programme contains mature, subject matter, listening, suppression is advised You are listening to someone know something from CBC part casts in season five David region travels north to Thomson Manitoba to invest gate. The nineteen eighty six murder of carry brown this. Is episode. Nine Maroni. When carry Brown went missing. It was a Thursday night Friday posters were put up around town Saturday. Her body was located overthrown Saturday afternoon, when I heard about it, by the between low days. On the Friday, I received a call in the early morning, hours of the Friday morning
This is Maroni. Schaefer civilian Earthy MP phone operator that John Mark Vilnius told me about well, ideally, I would love to use anything. You told me in the podcast thinking over the last couple of months. Do I got worked Thompson Detachment for ten years twenty two years in total for the r c p she was on duty, the night carry Brown disappeared and she took away how to get hold of, and I think the thing. It made me. Ok, you got me with when you try to contact the on Facebook and you got my house phone number and persistent, allocate money straightforward though, cautious, voice on the other end of the phone the same, I heard in the off record interview that a pity Hence can Jackson had conducted over five.
Years ago. Ended any police ever speak to you about this on record. Like you remember, any r C M, p officer interviewing you in writing down what you're saying nobody, nobody Money has never been interviewed by police, has never told her story publicly. And Trevor and Jim are anxious to hear. If she'll tell me what she knows, I love you. Can carbon in common that I'll go ahead of ahead. I hunted they will be over joined a known fact that there will be tied to switch them. Something could have been done at the time and that's the worst part of the whole thing for me is if it would have been done at the time will come of it. I think I feel it in my back there you are,
our you, I'm good. I meet Marny several weeks after our first phone call at a quiet park, she's suggested in a western canadian city. It's a joke, you wanna wastes, and I've spent most of my time waiting for her to arrive just watching a wooden quietly, leading her hatchlings around verdant pond near by what we get this wireless. It was certainly an rains wouldn't be under there we sit at a wooden picnic table next to a permanent gazebo structure. Decorated, on the roof, with what look like stylized poppies and wheat in repeated red tiles. Marty herself is on black wearing glasses brown, hair I'd back blue eyes, serious here, to get something off her conscience that has been there, for. Over thirty one years time and you went to school and Thomson, my guy,
I was in the army. My dad is himself an indigenous person from Hazelton BC my brothers and I were all adopted dad lived in June for a while he probably about twenty nine years, Army retired went to the rocket ranging Churchill so eager up in what Churchill and then from their work, for the government Manitoba around so got around here. Tell me: aren't you what happened and when it happens, the whole story of beginning middle an end. So I was working in telecommunication center and Thompson Detachment and it was on a Thursday night to
the Friday morning, probably around and I'm guessing because it was so long ago around two o clock in the morning I know was the early hours of Friday morning when I received a phone call from a male wise I stressed he was seem to be terrified that I was recording the conversation that we were having he kept saying it over and over you recording the conversation I want to speak to, and then he gave a french members name in Norway. Ass detachment and kept trying to explain to him that I can't get it phone you, if you don't give me a phone number even your name and he kept going. Up to the fact that I know you recording the sand and sounded to be quite scared, he had said, He had just
someone and had to talk to dismember the collar told money he had just killed someone and wanted to speak to our sea MP officer in Norway House, and she did. Get it on tape tour best research. There were no other murders recorded in the area that night or in the press. In period and carry wasn't even reported missing until the following afternoon. In my twenty point, two years experience with the same pay the costs that I've received not too many p. Google call up and tell you that they just murdered someone if they haven't never. Marty been talking to one of the men who kills carry brown. I probably told him about. Three different times that you I understand that I need a name or a phone number. How else is supposed to contact you and he just
going on and on about being afraid that I was going. To be reporting himself in the end, the phone conversation only lasted, maybe about two minutes. It wasn't very long. I was trying to calm down, it wasn't doing anything. He was quite afraid. Did not sound like he was intoxicated and phone conversation ended was concerned, because the fact of what was in their conversation that term he had stated that he had just murdered someone? I decided that I have to pass this on to someone, and that would be the member that he requested to talk too many social he found the r c m p member who worked in Norway House immediately after hanging up from the call from the self professed killer and late. Tells me about playing the recording to the officer
but I did was called up. The member I played back the conversation that I had with the person
I came back then we have paid not like technology that we have today. There was a single closet type machine and how large real true we'll take. You can't really afford to attain or anything like that Ipad death. I pray much to tell about why on earth upon, would go and be cape housing for the tape equipment that we had was probably about five feet away or so, and I play back paid to him. It was hard to curb the clarity of the conversation for him to be able to fully identify the boy was really not. There wasn't close enough to the machine heedless and come what she could hear. You did not recognise the boys of the person that unfortunate, because if you would have been in the room, there would have been a lot more work. Him may have been able to recognise boys. As you know, there was
not even a report of anything person at a time when the parking, let alone how many that had been killed? Oh that's, all that we have to go on and we advocate under the conversation was called back again trying to see. If I can just get a little bit more information from him would be able to contact between him and remember that didn't happen. There were still further called the king Money cannot recall the members name, but he comes up again later back in the park, I try to dig. Further on the collars voice, what you can about the collar and what they said and what you could tell from their voice, while, it was someone who was very paranoid that I going to find out who he was? He was panicked, all he knew and his mind was said he wanted to talk.
This member. It was a specific member so to me. That said that he knew this member personally and probably felt comfortable with him He never gave me any details about what happened or anybody else this involved with him. There was no details at all. It was just that one sentence that he had to smoking someone and he didn't even go into descriptors to save. It was a male or female or anything accents yeah from the community from the northern areas I'm assuming was from Norway House because he asked for that specific member, so women, the juniors. Yes, so you know I can't decipher. The different accents. Even though I did a lot of my work in Thomson and looking after the outlying areas,
I accept Mattawa Norway us crossly, so many different communities in northern Manitoba, I really decipher between the accent of say. People who live in Norway House compared to people who live in Shimerda. Why did he say during the call I'm calling from Norway House? He never did. Ok, no, despite my his convictions here. The background of the person on the call is as of yet unconfirmed and it also unknown. If there is a Norway has connection, beyond the r c m p member the collar mentioned. So my shift ended at around seven o clock in the morning Missus the Friday. This is the Friday. Seventeen yeah and I went home slept and the next day was Saturday many says she said the collar side, but not for long, so it wasn't until Saturday morning, prayers
lay the early afternoon. Actually I had, found out from someone at the detachment I was off. I wasn't working debts. He had found a body in Thompson and it was Carrie Brown That phone call that I had Thursday night was still in my mind when I heard that her body had been found, I immediately just connected the two I went straight to the detachment. I pulled the tape that phone conversation and I take it and then a lot What's going on at that time, we knew you had city detail Some members you had she, I ass different sex, coming together to work on this, and they were extremely busy
the general investigation section or G S was in charge of the Harry Brown case led by Dennis healed and John Toast When I had the time to get a hold of toast who was at that particular time investigator. This call, they were on, I contacted and asked him when he had time. If you could come to the detachment to see me and listen to the state. In my mind, the time frame, being Thursday night. She went to this party. The early hours of Friday morning nobody knew that this had been murdered, except for the person who committed the crime so thought that was very important, that somebody listen to the state of somebody could listen to this tape. I
hoping that maybe they can identify the voice and go from, so keeping state would have been extremely important. So tell me happened after that you call John Toasts on Saturday. I called John toast, I dont think he actually got around to coming. Two telecoms until a couple of days later? He I had the tape and I had a Cuba, to where the call car come in and He was not really interested in the tape, He said that he was pretty confident that they had the person. They were looking for? I told him that I'm going to keep the tape anyway. I take Did I marked the tape itself for John Toast
and I told him that I would leave it in the office in our centre. They were extremely busy. There is a lot going on. It was a terrible terrible case for sure so at that time it was near the beginning of my career with the earth GNP, and I felt that, I had passed the sun, I kept the tape there and that he would say care of it. You know I looked up to members in the force that had been there and had time men and felt that thing What they're doing so, I felt pretty good at the time Party, marked out with a piece of paper, then be put a piece of paper, Rennie queue up where it is: stick a piece of paper and then you break, and so you to write a little marker. What's on the paper, you say this is the call from the guy. Ok, so there was never a moment where the peace was clipped now is always just left on
It was stuck in between the tape itself right at the exact spot. It couldn't fallen out or an. As an until later on that I realized that the tape was still there, how much later, probably about a month later We had bulk tapes that where everything that came through and these bulk tapes would be put in a system where they would probably be used over again in about a three month period, so once you got back to that tape. It would be. Erased, and then we used so I was pretty sure that nobody had command to make recording the teeth. It was still sitting where it was didn't, look like it. It moved at all and that was the last time you ever saw the tape.
Last time, do you know of a copy? The tape exists. Not to my knowledge. I had asked for mercy MP investigator John Toast about this call that money says she recorded phone call, which was taped by one of the objects at Thompson station somebody's but I've just killed somebody. So need to ask you and the person who took the car was named Marny Schaefer do you remember anything about a phone call coming and after carry went missing and with that description I thought I recall no such thing. I really don't we want a hard up. Ok, so those dear recollection at the time there was no no phone call or no follow up on a phone call like that
I have certainly I don't recall it will be advised of my country. I didn't Pablo upon baggage, certainly toilet with which I heard of it, like, though it certainly would bellowing o something years later, you're selling along the line, but the doll, did you hear about it years later, geographically limited social media soon joined. Most denies knowing about the call at the time- and he says the first time we heard about it was on the internet through report. Just by John Mark Veal in January two thousand fourteen. I take toasts answer back to Marny. John Toes said, never heard of the skull
Well, I'm sorry, but I disagree. That's not true. I I don't know what else to say. I just wish that I hate the hiding things I just I just don't like them. I suppose with John saying no, I didn't know anything about this com. It's probably a godsend. Enough would be somebody else heard about this being mark, sometimes shortly after the investigation and carries murder began drama film of Sir, ass, he heard a heated discussion between John toasting Dennis healed about the car near his desk at the Thompson Detachment Villa says at the time
He heard enough to know the discussion was about a car money had received and that Norway House was discussed afterwards over time as detail. Thus became filled in by money. He says he realized what the conversation was about. Do you think I shall miss Milner? What's the credibility of John Mark? Well, you know, I think, key was no an average member there. Anything that was negative about him at all. I think bad. He really has. I am sorry to say this, but it sounds like he's a little better. I dont know what happened at the end of his career, piercing p I know he really wants to find out. What happened with the carry brown murder
but I found him when he spoke to me to be a little bit forceful, and I was still working there and I thought I dont want. Bitterness and anger. I understand how it her mark. He wasn't involved in the investigation other than being known that day, but he's a fifteen year old girl, so, I understand that, but it should be done in the right way. Should be done to me not be. Dumping, all over the r c m p a mistake was made: where do we go from here? I didn't want to be a part let's blast the earth GNP for all their wrong doing and everything else I just didn't, want it to be like a circus, in this case overhead lots of the socially there is common
very from former earthly MP of Sir John Morton Illness and his car ments online stunning. To me, The interview with our sea and Peter I conducted months before I spoke to money in person I asked double Jana marrow about the phone call and Joe Margin. Online Post about it says that there was a phone call, the came close to the time that Korean disappear, weird where the person said I I killed somebody help or something like that and got in touch with the civilian answering service at the or precinct at the time of Thomson. You know both that or that call come in I had heard about. I had heard that that had happened, In my contacts investigation I dont know like John Mark is an isn't list. It has an investigator involved in the file. I know
used to work in Taunton at one point in time, but he's not listed as one! The investigators have ever worked on the file, but he did work up and down. He didn't wasn't there remember and the call ever get looked into her than it would have been followed up on whether he was permitted, the information as to whether was followed up on it, Usually the homicide investigations take hold them from. Can close to their there. Master gaiters, so young, so John Toast says he didn't hear about the car until January. Two thousand fourteen JANET a marrow in two thousand. Seventeen tells me that she had heard about the call in her contact with the investigation and that it would have been followed up on. But when was what followed up on and how many says she told someone else about the tape in October in eighty six,
Did you tell Dennis healed about the tape? Dennis healed was the other early investigator on the brown case from the beginning and would have been John Toasts Superior you know what I did tell Dennis about it. We had a conversation and it was a very kind of short one. And I asked him when the fire was it not be kept under lock and key. If there was at some point where I could just for the file in ways that I wanted to know. If anything had come up with tee Mommy's, referring here to the investigative file on the carry brown case and then it's not like now back then people and telecommunications did quite a bit more kind of sought from lazy rate from the whole part of it so asking to see a file that the members working on was nothing out of the ordinary back. Then Dennis told me that he would leave it on his desk at the end of the day,
was working. Midnight shifts. This is probably about, I'm going to guess that it was probably about three weeks: to me even a month, but I dont think it was that long you're getting after getting the com? Doktor Denison. When you talk to Dallas, did you tell him about the car? Did you ask him to read the file or both I asked him to read the file and this p I'm not sure if I brought it up or not. When I asked him to read the file is that I have a team did John. Look in telecommunications, mutate. I've got a tag. Do you know anything came of it and it can't be certain if I said that two Dennis or if I said at the watch commander, I feel pretty confident to say that I did say two Dennis because normally I'm pretty open about a lot of things like that, so the watch commander or better
but for sure you would have told one of them as well as to our guests. Who is the watch commander I not sure that we have the watch commander at drawing toast told me that Dennis healed was ill and heard Parkinson's and that John Toast would would ask on my behalf Dennis healed. If Dennis would talk to me- and I said, ok and oldest text, you back John, said so he texted me back the next day and said that he does not want to talk to you. So I said, ok and then I thought I need to try to talk to them sealed I have to hear him tell me he won't talk to me. So I called Dennis healed and while initially he seemed hesitant, he did speak to me about the case during this call Dennis healed confirmed. He has been suffering from the effects of Parkinson's disease and said that is memory may be affected as a result
information are contented. I don't remember you one question that joint didn't recall, John, didn't recall getting information from money, Schaefer about a phone call that she received just after carry had disappeared. Did you hear about that phone call? You never heard of it back home Ok, and did you hear about it after the investigation ok. Do you remember her coming to you and sang Dennis? This call came in, and I think it's important and so you never asked and investigate. Go down and Norway House, even if you I didn't know there was no way working in an ogre. Ok
corny while charge had heard about it. I didn't I should learn about it, provided Anderson, Hooker and any kind of Dennis healed says he never heard about the call at the time. I am therefore he says he never looked into it or ordered anyone else too. I tell money that- and I asked him if you heard about call and he said, he'd never heard about the call. I can't you know I I really don't have anything to say. I can change what he said. I mean I know what I know rain so many years ago, it's time to just get on with it and try to do the best that they can to try and solve this. I agree, but Marny says Dennis healed, did, share the an investigative file with her three to four weeks after carry was murdered in October. One thousand eighty six Dennis
after there for you. The file carry rounds investigation, as our simply undertook it up to my three or four weeks into the investigation so than you had the file. What happened after that I read through the file. I didn't find anything about the tee, not meant nothing. Did you read the whole file I read the whole thing I had time it was on a week night during the night shift and things were slow and I read it and there were some things in their that you know. One thing stood out in particular and that was when she was placed in the body bag There was then, a black, coarse hair not belonging to her. She had blonde hair and I did bring this up with someone after the fact I said, I don't understand why. With this
be in there and I think it was John that I had spoken to and he said at that time Sometimes hairs can be left in there from a previous deceased person Mark Vilnius says he heard about this hair from money, no meat yeah. I was ever published about this black hair and John Toast separately, confirmed to me that such a hare had been found on the sheet that was wrapped around carries body this? It helps to indicate to me that there was indeed a hair and that money did read the file was the hare sent for TAT, Thank you didn't mention anything about testing or just now that hair was found that it was found, and it just added to what I was knowing that the person that they were looking at was not the right person
the person that they were looking at the time was fair haired as well Patrick summer. Yes, I can't say exactly when it was within a short period of time that they started looking at Patrick Sumner, and then you know I'm not involved in the investigation. So I can't say if they looked at anything else who didn't look at anything else, but from what I did see I'm coming into our office. We had windows that overlooked and in across the street and They would be looking at Patrick somewhere in the parking lot with Binocular it was obvious, said they wanted him to see them. Looking at him, I knew that that's who they had their mindset on. I think they
only thing that I thought of was initially at bud pass on the information that you have and you think in your mind that the people that are looking after this investigation will be looking into everything ass time went on when I found that they weren't really looking at the whole, thing otherwise part of this would be in that file. At least dimension of it that somebody had spoken to the member and Norway House. It was being asked for something, but there absolutely nothing, and I think that's me really was not feeling too good about the whole thing, so you weren't feel good about it then, and then we're here. Thirty years later, so you ve held that. Well. I haven't called it as if done nothing when this all things started in the end, Patrick Sumner. There wasn't enough evidence there wasn't enough.
Go and I a trance? bird later on to when a pay there amalgamated Thompson, telecoms with the other telecommunication centres and Manitoba, put us all in headquarters? I had that move and I ended up not too long after the move to Tom, Subdivision who now have the file, I said could the member at that time. That was looking after the file, and I asked him is there anything on the file about this Maybe there was a chance that they put it in later. What time was what time hurried without me? How many years later only about five or so who would pay I've been remember the name down talking so you, The person is this in the fire, and It said. No, that's nothing was in the file. I told him my story out what involvement I had with it, and I thought Ok, it's been set
again and then probably later on, and this would probably be a good ten years or so the file it now onto when a peg headquarters, and I hope to someone in headquarters about it and they didn't know anything about it, either so I felt like I was hitting my head against all I could understand why, especially after Patrick's was I go. You think ok there isn't enough evidence to bring anything against him. Every there are putting out into the media when it came, to her murder and that they were looking for help or anything. I thought this would be when you would be writing about that one little even here the tape has been raised and gone, and there is nothing that can be done about it. To me, I thought what about going,
into the community. What about asking people some questions? Somebody know something silent waves tells the confronting true story of twenty six year old, recall, o Brien, as she attempts to liberate herself from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse and a father with a dark secret. The seven part series includes raw and brutally honest conversations between Rico and her family as they discuss their past. For the first time, what emerged was a much larger story here: silent waves at silent waves, podcast dot com or wherever you get your podcast, Without the tape it's impossible to know the identity of the male Collar Murray heard on that early Friday morning October, seventeen nineteen eighty six
the collar may have nothing to do with Norway House, maybe he somehow knew of this saucy MP member, but had never met him but the mention of Norway House and the r c p member who may have been there might ring up EL to someone listening but there's more the story here after it I contacted Marny on the phone she undertook some, best negation of her own, so, like I intend to do and then after we made our first contact on the phone, you D that car headquarters to this. Why did you call her simply and want to pay? Why did I this- should all be about trying to find who is responsible for this. That's oh, I'm sure the family once they can't do anything to get there. Stir their daughter back
from what I understand its devastated them for all these years? That hurts me to know that and I'm sure it hurts anyone else around two who has heart, So what I wanted to do from this conversation was to let them know, look nothing's come of it. It bothers me And now I have somebody from the media who wants to talk with me about this. And I am considering talking to you and I thought, if anything Maybe this will make something be done I told her everything about the call the french member. She told me that she was going to look into this and that she would call me back. I waited to hear from her before I contacted because I wanted to know. Hopefully
tell me something good by the next day, I received a phone call from the woman that I was speaking to general. Ok, that's in charge, The fiery now Constable marrow gave me a very basic, even vague answer when I asked about the phone call Marny received, but these apparently more forthcoming when talking to Marny. And she said that I'd guest, a name of the member in Norway House as close to the french name, as I thought it was when I was until the day before she told me that I was pretty close with the name, and then she told me the name what was, So you know what I'm back to it. I can't really remember after discussion and rumination its decided that the last name
friend year or left one year rings a bell, that's what I thought it was left something. If this Arcy MP member is listening. Please reach out I'd like to talk to you His name was so important to me when she called me the next day. I early didn't care about his name. It was what are you gonna tell me, what are you gonna do? Can you talk to date? from the CDC in something be done to help with this case at all. So she had. Called me that in fact member and, I think she's. A female member did go into your house and did speak to the french member who this person had requested to speak. When I don't know and I said to her or you know I read the file and I didn't see anything in there about anyone going into nursing homes,
and I didn't let her know how much of the file add rat or anything and she said well She said this was a file that was separate and I thought what do you mean a file that separate from a fire like that then Sir, it's true today to you, have a file. It's one file you add volumes and volumes and volumes to that file depending on how long the case goes, but everything's together. No, accurate and away from an existing file, and she said, but just wanted to let you know, because I need it would make you feel better that this was looked into So he immediately when I'm on the phone this Amy feel good for those first few seconds thinking that
I that wonderful, you know they did. They send someone they looked into it. Nothing could be done so I got off the phone with her. I thank you very much and then. At the same time, I put my phone away had a mocking to my vehicle just hit me, I think she's set that to make me feel good to make me not feel the need to talk to someone in the media that it was taken care of, and that's it. I started thinking about the other people that I had talked to at headquarter. Thompson subdivision that never knew anything. Why didn't they tell me? Why did they say S morning has been looked into? My second question was: why Is there a file
for this visit to Norway House that separate from the other file. I couldn't understand this and when she was on the phone with me, she said that John didn't know about it. John toast, the investigating member of the time, did not know that someone was sent to Nori house and that again to bother me. Why would the investigating member not know? What's going on, this file would be the reason to hide something from him so I went away with more questions. Then answers and because of the types of answers that I received. I thought it's enough is enough, and then I gave you a call. What do you think went on I'd hate to think
that she wasn't being truthful with me, but then again it is questionable from me. It doesn't make much sense budgetary. What the member found in Norway has tat. Nothing was found nothing and that they want and spoke to this french, member and Norway hers and nothing came of it. So according to Marny Constable Jana marrow, told her in this recent phone call that someone went to Norway House and came up with nothing. I dont what was done and why and why was mention of it allegedly put into a separate file, and by who- and is this. Member went to Norway House to speak to the french member. We were speaking up. Why would it be done under the table?
I just done just didn't, make sense led invested It has Dennis healed and John Toast say they did not hear about it. All the time and therefore did not fall. Follow up on any information that could be related to it. So if Something was followed up on by our C M p. Would it have been done without both Lee? investigators. Knowledge perhaps it was done after both men left the case, toast is he transferred? Are Thomson in July nineteen, eighty eighty two years after Harry was murdered Marny says she was never interviewed by police about what she heard or the tape. Ever gave a statement Oh, how is anything done without an official police interview of Marny, the witness to the car. On what was said and how it was said. The two according to many hadn't budged, from its place for at least three weeks, and then she
ever saw again our champion. Would you, relations bottle eyes, terror. It is hiding hi I've gotta get out here with me how Jonah even live contacted our sea MP and when a peg for a follow up interview about all of this, but before I it into Marny and the call she received. I have two preliminary quest genes which are unsurprisingly vanquished with typical police generality, that determine information and be able to verify. Was there a black hair found with carries remains, has are, and he looked at that hair am, I can tell you in regard to any that are able to be done, have been completed and the Why is the earthy and people are being re? Release of the autopsy report to the brown family is an ongoing homicide. Investigation then the main reason for my car,
too many Schaefer, who is a civilian police phone operator at the time of, carries disappearance, and she told me about a funk. I'll bet she'd received early in the morning of the Friday. The seventeenth so after carry what it disappeared from the party from very distraught man who said that he had just killed somebody and wanted to know and are simply members name from Norway House so that he could talk to him and Marny took this car was recorded. She told she says John Toaster One of the investigator she also says she's, almost certain she told Dennis healed the other investigator on the case. At one corroborative person and enjoy more inventive, are simply officer at the time who said that he overheard John toasting Dennis healed out this phone call.
Dennis healed giantess deny that they ve heard about this phone call both say they didn't look into it and both say that they never investigated. It is so when I interviewed you, you said that you heard about this phone call Jana, and you said it would have been followed up on oh you ve heard about it, but the people investigating it hadn't thanking my parent of what you have to keep in mind here, the magnitude of this investigation and how much work has been done, and probably the amount of the little old man, sleep and strength, and a lot of stress that these guys would have been under at the time. I can tell you that that information has been followed up by an was followed up on around the time that they were doing that investigation, so what they would have been them civically that would followed up on it.
No, I don't want to be one of the investigators essay had involved in the investigation that would have done so, but I don't know they made their recollection of that specific phone call may have to do with the passage of time and that people's memories change over the past. The time and the information are able to recall it just what therefore them understand. Call of that magnitude were per. Someone has said that they ve killed somebody. You would think that on the day it was received us exactly one carried Brown went missing. You think that someone would notice also Marny. As such, it was never interviewed by police about the car. So how could it have been followed up if she was never interviewed by police when they went ahead, recording and stuff like that at a time that call monies indicated fairly interview. He despatch called hanker during the course of our investigation if we have a recording
Money is indicated that nobody listened to the tape based on the position that you left it and she said that she had called the officer that the member and Norway House, immediately after she received a call and tried to play it. Call for them over the phone, but the sound quality wasn't very good member, never called back so not sure not sure where that lands and, if Dennis healed, John Toast were leading the investigation they would have known about ordering somebody go look into this call. Wouldn't again, I can't be too like they did at that time and their recollection from that period of time. I can tell you that information, and followed up on and documented in the file. Okay. So that leads me. The last question money says that she read the file about three to four weeks after the investigation began and that there was no mention of the call in the file and then she said but over the number of years, three, four or five years later she called a member who was in charge.
The file he said it wasn't mentioned in the file, and she said she called again ten years later and it wasn't mentioned in the file and then I heard from Marny that He has had a conversation with Uganda, where you said it was followed up on agriculture. In the file and have been followed up on so isn't it no file that Dennis Yield and John Toast, where the, whereupon I can't speak to again, I'm gonna say I can't speak to their recollection from the time. There may be a reason why they don't were called bad, but I am telling you that it was followed up on working when was it followed upon? I dont have the right in front of me, but it wouldn't followed up on pretty important to know when the date would have been and are not coming
but I would share with you anyhow. Do you think that it's odd that the two leading us to get us didn't know about the call and didn't know anything about that people investigating the call in Norway House? Like I said, everybody has different recollection of what happened on an investigation. I dont know how it was presented to them a bunch of different variable that could be taken into consideration in a situation like that and to living- do not recall that on call. I'm not exactly sure I can't speak to them. I understand I know it's hard to answer for other people in this situation. So when you called money. Money says that you told her wasn't. It was in a separate file that you said it was. You Jana said to me that a separate for accurate. That's not what I said. You didn't say that money now I did not. I set up within the file. Oh ok, that's contrary to what she's reporting to meet them John Toast left in July nineteen. Eighty eight from Thompson,
not sure one Dennis left so that to me tells me that nothing was done on that particular aspect of the case until at least two years later, something muscle I've been looked into and then again I don't understand how it could be looked into that interviewing Marnie or listening to the tape. You aware it was a copy of the Colliver Medor recording. You still have the recording of the call I think, we're gonna cut it off there. We ve broken t about the call that has been followed up on it in the file. Is writ there's nothing else. We can speak to you about it. In the interest of assisting the brown case, a copy of the car should exist and a chance to play the voice for the public would be paramount. Ok, it would be nice to know the data was followed up. That would be nice to know we will provide died in any investigation. We're not going to provide that here. Talking to constable american Media officer, Tara Seal noticed many,
actual answers, as I had hoped, the time period, that the calm may have been looked into from my reckoning, taking into account Marty's recollections is at least three or four weeks after carry was murdered and well after Patrick's. There would have been arrested and none of the information from a marrow. Is that convincing to me about why healed and toast wouldn't know about the call or how a car like this might have been looked into? Also, I asked detective Barber Bonatti. If he recalled reading about the phone,
Call in the file in his review of the case in the nineteen nineties. The evening carry disappears the Thursday night and then early that Friday morning, a call came in to the our sympathy and, on the other end of line was a male who said, I have just killed somebody and I'm upset, and I don't know what to do and are you recording this and then they do. You remember hearing anything about that call. No, there may have been jailed, it's not something that I would recall TAT and you review the file. It starts That's something I recall and there's more after we spoke. I thought I'm the one that saying that I received this call I feel like. I should start talking to somebody who I told about the skull I ended up contacting Dennis healed after I spoke to money by phone and she agreed to go on the record. She wanted to verify. If you things herself, I told
that John Toast didn't remember the phone call, so she decided to reach out to Dennis healed to see. If he might remember, I found him three facebook and even though you not friends with someone, I guess and still sent a message. He called you. He called me ok, which was strange because they sent it with my cell number and when he, call me he called in my house member, I saw you. Ever gave him your house number, I never gave him. I was kind of taken back of it. He Sad hello is money there and I said yes, this is set its Dennis. He held so I said, hey Dennis. How are you I mean we had a pretty good working relationship years ago. I had seen him for a long time. I haven't seen him since Thompson, so I said
You know high Dennis. How are you how's everything going and then he said to me well good. He said you who are you and I was just ok. This is the joking Dennis. Are you Are you kidding? No, I said Dennis. I said this morning So I said: ok, well, I used to work with you, explain the whole story, story of how you worked as telecom work, tat yeah, so I thought. Well then this is just going to have to be very in my mind, I'm conversation so you doing well, but I started talked him and I said I had Give some reason: why was reaching out to him? I said you remember he's other names said yes and I said, while I said I'm I'm just calling you myself, because somebody
reached out to me from the media to discuss the carry brown murder and I said, that's why I'm calling you he said and then he started talking at first I really wasn't gonna say anything about this, but it's important have everything sort about there I dont know how Dennis mind is affected by the this is that he has I'm not a medical professionals, so I don't know, but I will let you know when he started talking about Norway House. I let him go with whatever you want. I wasn't going to ask him interjected questions to prior to ass, though you haven't said anything about the case of the then there's a media person was talk, mercury Round yet you haven't said I got a phone call. The guy I think was from Norway has never been so. Anyone know what a phone call to know. So talk, and he starts
talking about tat the carry brown murder and he said that he feels that it's gonna be
the call to solve this case, because this country, so many hands as yours go on in time, goes on. It does get people forget. So I agree with him. I said, but there is still a chance and he said he I said I'd like to see it solved. So it's really good. He then, all of a sudden sad that the ball was dropped with Norway House CALL and I said, Dennis what he means. The Nora House call because seat to me, I'm thinking he doesn't remember going. I am I'm the one that took that Norway House call right and then you mention of two. No no, and I said what I mean, the ball was dropped off. The North House call and he said well, you know the guy called scenarios
Okay, I didn't go in to ask him anything. I didn't say Dennis you know I was the one that took the call, I didn't say anything at all about it, and there was one other thing that he said when he was discussing this case. He said he was the one that was the person that was responsible for transporting the blood samples and he feels that he may have done something wrong and that transport and he used the word contaminated again- didn't go and ask him what makes you feel you contaminated the specimens, whether that was in the process of putting them
they container whether who what it was I dont know, because I was still feeling and still I repeat that call. I don't think I would I don't think of it. Ass. I dont know how is minded. this conversation that money had with Dennis healed took place before I spoke to him? In fact, it was part of the reason I phoned healed in the first place. If he was well enough to seek out and kind tax money. Then maybe he'd be well enough to answer some of my questions, according to Marny he'll, told her that perhaps they dropped the ball on the Norway House CALL and when I asked him about the existence of a phone call, he told me that he wasn't aware that during the investigation I wasn't ready to pay
a sealed on the explosive and alleged contamination question without talking more demanding about it and, as it turns out calling healed back, may be a problem hello eyes of David David high turn. After my conversation with yield, I received a phone call from our C m p communications, saying that there was some concern about my contacting them over the phone yeah. So maybe it wasn't appreciated on the end of either John or Dennis that went down that way. So I said that I would mention that Cuba, as yet it is quite l so for that that I'm another Dennis was well enough to call Marny and seemed well enough to speak with me, but it doesn't sound like he wants to talk to media anymore back on the farm. What car, with the r c m p I put some
what money so she heard from heel to Constable America in talking to Dennis healed Marny, told me that he asked they said he dropped the ball on the Norway House CALL and he also said he was afraid he made of contaminated blood. Samples in the case is that so saying that- and I know that dennis- has suffered and is suffering from Parkinson's and may have some excellent on his memory because of that something that you are nothing I'm familiar with. Ok, I had asked Marny if she had ever heard anything about that three men that Vilnius said had been pulled over by an officer named Donnie Fischer in a- and with an air mattress and at the weekend before carry was killed. I had made brief contact with one of the two brothers who Trevor had spoken to over Facebook and scheduled a phone call. With him, but whenever I called there was no answer and the like. Soon was disconnected and then he stopped
Communicating altogether Marny had heard of them, but she did no Donnie Fisher. And decided on her own volition, to try to get in touch with him, so you then called dawning greater contact at him and what happened when you contacted him I contacted him, asked him how he was doing foreigner. Facebook is Facebook ask him how he was doing. He seem happy in the exclamation marks and everything to while its morning I asked him I said book. I said I'd like to talk to you. Can you for me gave him my cell number. He said in a few days. He would call me- and I never got a call- so, and I never call them that or anything. I try contacting Donny
messages on his phone, and I am certain that was the right phone number left, probably four messages, each becoming more detailed and I sense a facebook to him have not received any responses, and the left Tom, I try to number a few days ago. The number had gone to fund, so I can't reach him so how to move forward from here. I sort of thought at the beginning The whole case started that John had his mind set on one person. That's something that's on common in policing instigations. It can happen to anyone, I think that does more for people and the general public to say: ok, you know what everyone makes mistakes was how many years ago, the european people in my mind
should be saying. Yes, we had tunnel vision, This is what happened, but we are working. And were looking for anything that we can to be honest and open, transparent, All the things that a family, his last above one wants to hear and that's why I'm saying what I'm saying so. I left on on good terms with the earthy MP, and I would never do anything to hurt anyone, and there would be Dennis. I never would, with John even of John called me and said that I don't remember morning, ok, John, you babbling about that voice, and are you just want to hear the voice? so one would think that if we had that voice we could simply broadcast it. This is a some have interest. At least this informations, never really
even been taken in by the people. The need to hear it so exciting to me in some ways and troubling as well. From an investigator standpoint. Looking at the original investigation, its frustrating don't know what the answer as I dont know, what above all, this mass can end up finding out what the truth is behind. It is easy to blame the police rights of extortion focus on blaming the police and then its leg, but what about but west ocean right like what about finding the with because they- to be motivated to the police. They need to be motivated that they have to try to do something just with getting this out for listening. Here, maybe that's what it needs is just stirring up some things and that let's keep our fingers crossed a knock onward. Well the family thanks for coming forward.
I believe that police adequately looked into the phone call, but without me, information, it's impossible to say for sure. If somebody drop the ball, let's be transparent about that. Believed the recording has been erased, but if it wasn't, let's have the police turn it over, and here it perhaps by broadcasting the voice of the collar, we could help identify the people who killed, carry Brown whether it was looked into or not whether the tape still exists or not. I believe money, much of what money has told me points towards a recurring theme, the original investigation to carry Browns murder. What seems to be a single minded focus on one suspect, Patrick Sumner,
none of what Marny has told me actually exclude Sumner as one of the possible multiple persons involved in the killing of carry brown. Did the focus on Patrick Sumner, distract investigators from other evidence and suspects, or does Sumner actually know something about what happened that night The only way to know for sure is to hear The man himself you ve, been listen, into episode nine martini, If you wish to submit an anonymous Tipp about carry Browns murder, It CBC Darcy a slash S K.
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.