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Cosmic Queries – Algorithms and Data, with Hannah Fry

2020-06-22 | 🔗

What is an algorithm? How do you interpret large amounts of data? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comic co-host Chuck Nice answer fan-submitted Cosmic Queries exploring algorithms and big data alongside mathematician and author Hannah Fry, PhD.

NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons and All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/show/cosmic-queries-algorithms-and-data-with-hannah-fry/

Thanks to our Patrons Dan McGowan, Sullivan S Paulson, Zerman Whitley, Solomon Nadaf, Eric Justin Morales, Matthew Iskander, and Cody Stanley for supporting us this week.

Photo Credit: Storyblocks.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Have you ever had that dream? Where you're trying to take your business remote and its super confusing? But then you hear of bondage add for their team of remote business experts that you can just call and they can put a whole plan together. She, your business, can easily work from anywhere and on top of that they can even sort you out with a video api that you can use to build video into your absent websites. Have you ever had that dream will now it's an actual real thing that you can do you don't need to get into remsen anymore, to make your business communication dreams come true. All you need to do is call bondage now we're talking welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide knocked off begin right now this is our talk, I'm your hosting the other s life in your personal astrophysicist, This is a cosmic queries. Addition at that's what becoming a fan
favorite, and when I do cosmic worries you know, shut nice can't be far behind Jack what's happening. The Andrew looking back on the house here, yeah yeah, well yeah, virtually in the urgently adverts in there in the in the Corona Verse House we all in the same corona, Verse house right today we're doing a cosmic worries on Al Gore limbs and data algorithms and data. Gotta love me some algorithms and data Cosette nothing. I do not matter There is not a fan of either, not me, I'm afraid of data, both the act. Information kind, Andy, Android from STAR Trek, I'm a big fan of data algorithms knots I forgot- we had a whole behold entity named data, an android. Basically, So what we have here is we ve invited into studio today data methods that we have an expert.
On algorithms and data a mathematician fry whose dialing in the UK had a welcome. Thank you very much talk, you know the any person he hates the wet algorithm The conference to strengthen its guiding, like, I think, is a word that makes by eighty five steadily Wanna gouge out their own eyes, yeah, but it does make the remaining fifteen cent people might be aroused there No, I mean you know. Molly aroused rest, because AL is only mildly sexy. Girl rhythm go river. Exactly so did we get your full by
Here we associate professor of Mathematics, University College, London and you co host a BBC radio show Radio for cars radiant because he has very as stove piped channels and is the curious cases. Referred and fry yeah. I know you do some splain and on that one author of the book recently released, let's just last year, Hallo world being human in the age of algorithms. So you with the person for this for this cosmic queries just going. I know a thing or two, I'm not gonna, be heard something I saw Devil Hannah My men can, I just make you feel a little more at home, digitally as we crossed the great pond. There we go there, we go. Oh BBC, lose time, five o clock to him too you like that,
very good and you get a job. I'm the bridge show off that they have the Prime Meridian, Sir. Yes, Universal time granted should be In fact, I live in Greenwich their primary and is about a hundred metres from my house. Do feel with them. Do you know you don't like the way you get along, look around, there's a peninsula, then along the primary as it goes across. The water is just an arrow that says here are not forgotten Conference at the earth now sixteen thousand kilometers something I got under way. Bigger than that people want but it was sixteen thousand in ancient Greece so go to you maybe
ass. If I may to guess at the wrong person history, his friend history lesson, it goes back to hear it. I got like whereby fifty thousand kilometers forty fifty thousand, while I was within a fact your ten, I know what two miles and the guys are gave us milestones. Twenty five thousand miles is what that is, But I'm just delighted you live near the primary and then you can get a little vibe from it. I regularly register. So tell me tell me about data. Was the state of data today relative to like when any of us were kids or even before they were computers. The data of course, predates computer. So, what's going on today,. While in some ways I mean in another it's not that much has changed a minute still a case. All people collecting statistics about Cuba, how we behave about what we do using I've mathematical techniques, son.
And trying to infer scientific, see everything. You can buy our behaviour from its say. There is, if I could has a long history going back to the fifties. Mistake these, I think, was really change. The volume of data I mean you don't need me tell you just did Incredible amounts of data is collected on ass rapidly. It is not just the amount of those it is directly related about us. Things that you can infer from that data on the gas is that you can make about people. You wouldn't necessarily realizing it you can do so early messes up with them The words of my hair is also going a chief date of for supermarkets. If the market in the UK and Ireland they they have access to everything everyone buys. So they know. What's in your basket, then, are you wiki shop? And today who say South home insurance right so late.
And tell you makes that and you know higher claims in their home insurance and compared to what people are buying and day realised in their data that you can you can tell the people who claim less on their home insurance and people who tend to cook food, a home he's gonna be? Ok, everyone's you here is. I would also make sense against right. You're very house, proud person in Europe. The spending ages create you knew from scratch and get you another layer, kids, faith in the house, rights, academics. If the groups let the quest, is how do you decide who the home cook anyway now that there is one item that, like the strongest indicate to evolve as this one ice in this in your basket, is the biggest gave away that you are a home cook more than any other I'm going. How do you mean it is cooking again one against my guess now. Let me see idle. I like to cook at home in Brazil. I cook a certain type of food, but I can't cook without
olive oil about I'm anchovy paste, oh yeah. I think it is good that an siblings. Tomato paste, something that's so based arable kitchen preparation. So. It is a bit more little bit more gas of always fresh fennel. Its fresh the biggest known ass, an I think it is right that you just wouldn't, if you're buying first animal, you might hear how you got no your idly cooking at home. That is the only purpose. Professional I've been seriously it nobody sand like. Oh, I have to pick up some fresh panel. I need to shine my shoe value for now I am buying first penalty, if my I'm insurance prices which again down but as yet nothing I guess so so that's one thing where the access people have to who in what you are when its becomes when the data is consumer based data. So I guess we get that a lot of people.
Fear that our angered by it, but before we land there more securely images comment that I, as the volume of data, has grown cause computers. Obtaining data constantly has the computing ability to analyze data reason with it, so that we do not really feeling the stress of being smothered in data that we might have feared a few decades ago. Yeah. I was as unless he may be nothing, though the fierce month things I first heard from Genoa paused now. This is now mid nineties, late nineties. What he said was the internet is the world, biggest library. The problem is all the books are scattered on the floor. And I said well there's a brain analogy, but at the time there wasn't a google search engine or any kind of way to organise that information with few years. They were search engines so the books were no longer on the floor,
where the hell we are now, but they were so you're, not my eyes. It was clever, but that doesn't apply today because my can get through the data and my people. We have very big I'll scopes getting a lot of data on the universe. Half of the effort in pressing for the telescope is the data pipeline. You handle the data. So are you can use hey that you're a wash in data are, you are you and on top of this situation well for this reason. Okay, so definite, I came out of grants that you have now just that the army just another They see before you can handle you can handle vast. I sat with just incredibly intricate detail about every from the cosmos to human behaviour that you just one able to before? But the thing is: is that I think the biggest challenge becomes data. Isn't so much about value, but more about quality and thing is: is there any
one who has worked for data knows this cleaning days is like so much the battle you get like this, this massive great big wall of the data, brilliant this can be so gas can't wait like die then, and then you realize just how long it takes to make it to get into shape were at work? It does. The thing that you want to say. I think, for example, of something that debate that will be I ain't. I am. I feel we just called reducing the data. If I showed you raw data from the universe. Say what the hell is that with my pretty hobble picture. Well, you know what the hell happened between the photon hit, the telescope and the photo that ended up in the press, you b B might be shot. Would you wouldn't be here, but others and buy it? So you haven't exam, How do they excite me? They must be one that really funny guy stupid. What
but then I come out and in the cuban part, so that as the one we want deaf I know you deafening always that waste is really stupid is definitely one listens. Academic think about your bio. Tell me about your BBC C4 radio show! Oh ok, so this is I say that I hope to create the necessary my bed and we ve been going or bows slave. According to succeed theories now the idea is that people sentencing questions are meagre and investigated. Initially. We because Radio beside his colors, the push channel, very highbrow its there's no music is all is where the politicians gown was wearing these deep intellectual debate. I mean they have like you. New programmes on philosophy right. I thought the very kind of like the very brown stuff?
so initially we wanted Africa, be very high priority and to be very serious, Nyc with very serious scientists. We discover quite quickly the athlete what works there is, if you just basically mockery, ok ground where all the annoying questions a kid for north apparent. They send them into us in that sector to the benefit. I think, of the listening. A thing like the best questions, so we had a question time he likes witches was the tiniest dinosaur. I was the question that was asked of us by like an eight year old, seems like a release. You know, He'll silly question, you can just dismiss the with a quick Google said, but actually unfollow this hope like? How do you define size? How do you define dinosaur? You know this whole color wild underneath it. So the really what is moved into the space? And yet I wonder playgrounds where will the annoying questions that kid's one of their parents. They send them into us instead to the benefit. I think of the listener serve as a kind of
under some of their posited dive it out. Definitely not pass Let's see we can leave off with a question here check. We gotta first question on algorithm and data for one year ago, on those subjects sure thing: let's go: let's start off. We always start after the patriotic patron because they give us money so Let's go to T J Monroe from patriotic says: Doktor, Thyssen and Doktor fry. The two that's radio voices in science where is your House Rutherford worry Senor shows, is madness, most better. Do we have to show them out? He says: can you walk through the process of creating a predictive algorithm for something like the path obey lightning bolt? or o ocean currents. Now one is a lot easier than the other yeah, so
one reiterating our trunks itself, I'm so glad that you say that Turkish you're, an expert well, I you know me in my my spare time, women I put I'd like that's a great question. What I like about it is that there are two things highly sort of our oceans can be turbulent, looms, dorms and things, but there is a prevailing. Thank you, don't know where lightnings owing to strike, but you know it's gonna strikes somewhere over their yeah. So I love that question so Hannah has that reduced itself to honour them at this point or not, no. I haven't seen an algorithm for producing ivy strikes, but I'm just thinking three, how you do it. You're gonna be certain things that and that going to, as you say, right like our seven days when you can look out in the sky and be pretty confident that the new life insurance your happen, another days where you can be fully confident that they will say something
you can measure in the atmosphere, the atmospheric pressure, the humidity or those kind of things you could plug into a system that could help you predict the lucky. He did the mining strike, but the exact also bear. I mean new, you probably know more about this than me, but I would say that the exact path is can be very difficult to deduce precisely where we will hold an end up. Is it's easy yeah? Would you call it an algorithm if you are checking the atmospheric pressure in the humidity and the size of the clouds and the moisture. If those are just inputs to something to calculate. Does it come under your category of algorithm as well? Yeah, I think same thinks, I'm enormously very different kinds of algorithm dinner. The artificial intelligence is one that gets a lot of attention and the algorithms that deal with because the date The internet is another, I think the thing is taking taking, something from the real world.
Said they write like taking ingredients in the real world, doing something with it and then spitting out some kind of ants. I think for Meda councils and awkward them I'm here with you technically, if you stop and all someone for directions during your car, you stop now some of the dirt. Since may say, go down there go that way that right now I mean technically, they did that, giving you an algorithm Russia, so that this problem is a very wide catch, basing them there were accounting for things that you want to predict or understand so with with lightning you'll. Only discharge a cloud of this. If the build up in charge is very different, either from one place to another cloud or between the cloud in the ground, like you said at hand, if you measure the humidity, you can check to see what is the propensity of electricity to cross human error versus dry air and look at the threshold for that, and he said when his this threshold is going
How much of algorithms is also thresh holding phenomenon on us not fighting here. Didn't fit. So that's the difference between Sometimes you are trying to predict exactly what's gonna happen. You know you're gonna, you're trying to predict. Let's say you know of all- is rolling down a healer whatever like exactly what is going to adopt that kind of thing. Sometimes you just saying, as you said like what is the probability that this might happen and what you said this threshold to say: ok, bye procedure, the stakes I gave you any about anything right, it's like it's! Not! Definitely you know it's, it's not like you, both then all therefore you're not gonna, take you home insurance is like you buy you by famine, Therefore, you likely to be a good, therefore, your lightly today, as the any useful, if all the way
three days, you're gonna be saying thresholds. Will you say if it keeps David S, then you know with you you're a hunger derivatives. Every day we see more whatever for emphasis on certain important factor, because it's not One piece of data that gives you the subtle one piece of data that tells you what Everything is its they one piece of data that I put you over the over the edge of that conclusion, Maybe I do displaying agreements by. I think when you are dealing with uncertainty mean very, there are very few things especially when you went out you know, handling dated became Pavia very few. Things are called hard facts right very things are, in your rarely dealing in absolute so. When your handling uncertainty, the only way you can possibly convert uncertainty into a yes, no answer is based. Here's the line if we crossed it will assume, as he asked
and then the ocean currents. Those like you said check those have prevailing than are catastrophic the way a lightning bolt. It survives superbly that doesn't have this kind of thresholds in knowledge in the bag, and there are even months than us in a very sophisticated equations that can do Fluid playwrights, so they still my absolute, especially when you're dealing with tablet is still a lot of probability and randomness and and and chaos right. This involved in what about you, say with more it's it's. It's not fair, shouting, open your, as you say what you, like, you can say with more seconds, wasting they're gonna be inhabited anything I was gonna say: there's also come and we are dealing with ocean currents as opposed to lightning bolt. Ocean currents are all connected because it's not one ocean. It's an entire oceanic system that happens on the globe where it's lightning bolts are isolated in.
So that's that there's that two other even mathematician delegation I mean they assume two dimensional say running in May last year to check that these efforts are tracking dimensions to make the problem visa all whether or not your answer is corrected. This happen again where I live in the early, any good practice that we have a first, let's take a first break and will become back more cosmic queries, who is data mathematician and afraid.
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Rebecca start on recovery, fairies, algorithms and data. Yes, tat. It now go. running their jackknife lovers, tweeting chuck, Norris Comic. Thank you, sir, and we have as our special guess, professor of mathematics at university college. London fry feminist base. It will pass that you just gave me most in my bank here. You are probably do that particular view. Take that to the bank and well defined Richair Hannah, had a. How would you like to be a chancellor eyes? The idle I wanna be, sir? That's very good work so check. You got another question:
sure sure sure let some let's go back to patriotic. Let's go to Shawshank Sub Moravian, who says Neil hello and Hannah hello. I would like to know how impact Forward solving the day, p versus nine p problem, with respect to our capabilities of understanding the universe, all she's, my team versus Ninety- probably that we also learned yes exactly. He appeal. If you consumed copious amounts of liquid? He problems. I think why not he's got a remedy to you. What reply they exist so Hannah, what what? What is p verses he and his at a real outstanding problem. Gay ass, I can say, is one of the millennium ass problem say if you solve this show son was named, sank, sub, moraines, ok, there's
by the way, with the: U S mighty, showing off aid. So this problem, I, when a million dollars, say misguided, maybe they changed the universe, by the way, the ginger okay. So let's say that I gave you a gigantic today puzzle and ass you do so there. You are like a really massive one: may not dislike nine nine skype and muscle Why not do something to take you forever to solve it? Ah, if I said he's a solved one, I want you to check its rights. I see them so much easier problem right, even though could be the same, stood open puzzle funding it in the first place is much much much harder than just check and minutes rockets so there was a moment. What would you say a solved puzzle again? That would imply it's right, so you mean a field in my language is laughing. I think it back. I filled in such so sometimes
where you gonna go blank Soku great. If I stay or the non in data is. If it's very easy, the answers right? Sometimes you can use that as a loophole to get you answer very quickly? Rightly just generally answers and check if they're right rather than gonna, go through run through the entire process. So the question is It is not always the case. If you can check that an answer is right quickly. Much quicker than you can to solve. The problem in the first place is not always case. Can you saw something up do really hard problems that you got a grunt through always have quick solutions or not. I'm I'm be the reason why this has repercussions in the reason why this house, in a potential impacts on our understanding of the universe, is there also the algorithms that we used to try and understand gigantic systems. I am sure that that this is that, each year in a lot of cosmology a lot of them, he is very clever workarounds to account for the fact that some
problems are just really hard. Sometimes you kind of have to grant free I'm trying to find the answers that a whole host of different algorithms that exists to try and make that after dinner, that grunting, since easier, but if it were the case that actually all these difficult problems, you have an easy, quick solution. I mean that would be. You know if you could suddenly region the amount of computational time that you spend on a problem. I mean that would have a dramatic, dramatic effect on the number things that could make complete circa travel to show off in front a hairdresser gimme a momentary good happening. So did the fork color map pray, yeah I was around and in college when that was solved, and it was considered in because someone put an algorithm and just grunted through it, and but they solve it, and no one else has solved it before so in principle, then that implies that it was easier to solve it.
Way than by any analytic where that a fair and algae here? Nor is it an as yet I mean that one typical very upset about that night. Just remember that he had a likely, because normally when you to approve you write it down in his? Is this this elegant statements of logic on the back of an envelope yeah exactly at the most risk at the risk of not being applied. Fifty four color map a break. Therefore, color map love ass. What the hell before a colored man. Proudly you get like a man of the states in the euro and you got like all of the different states. And you want to color in the questioning. Can color in with full colors so that no two states next. Other share the same color right turns out you can. The question is: is there the therefore come problem is
it is right, as you know, he murmured the more, maybe does any. Mark exist, for which you cannot tolerate economies or Jack extracts containing a number of comments that you his collar anymore, think we knew that the forecasts this was the right answer. We just didn't have a proof of it, and so it was. It was intractable until somebody again, I went to college so long ago. Computers, new to the world, the mass punch cards. If only we do with the seventies right uses it Yes, it was back on earth the empowered handle so- and it was proven, but only through this by checking the answer. Why proving the answer gets feels like what you just descrie right, and so I give an example from my fear. I think I am
This is an example. We have people looking for galaxies that are very, very low in their surface brain like you, keep you you'd you scan by anyone even note was there will have to help. How do you look for them if they will reveal So while we were the ones we have found, we know what their light profile looks like, and so what we can do is set up a filter. That goes out and tries to managing the light in the sky to that filter, and when you get slight increase in a match. There's a galaxy night employ resources, there's a yet. There is a galaxy there. Where are you you're looking for the answer to ask your question? Yes, yes, yes, yes, I too had such or Canada, it's legit, I mean we. I mean that's about examined these great examples like grunting through this nation and another,
This is not always the easiest way. Always guy is there. I see a trick. Is there some clever trick that you could have used like holding your data in half and looking for, like this superimpose tightened, So maybe there's some clever trick somewhere that this there's no one spotted yeah. You know they. So often cases Loki become obvious. The texts- and maybe they want to have a check, helping, could have been solved and began to concentrate ok, so if this problem get solved, then it'll give us confidence for all future problems. Problems to say, don't even worry about figuring out the answer. Analytically, let's just compute the answer and then check it, yeah that's easier than that. For me, that's less romantic, senseless elegant!
It is a little bit then, at the same time, you have to think of the potential cost of basic here there are some problems like if you take protein folding as an example right, so I'm proteins are just the sources of so much of life. I'm innocent you! They like the fundamental building, Buckler Building block that everything that could happen to the human body from outside those too Thanks to you that the effective drugs that you take, everything it all comes down to proteins and proteins them these long ribbons of amino acids and the way that they folder determines their function. These things are practically incredibly incredibly complicated, and it's ok to go. From the folded up: the folded up bundle of ribbon the long string is possible, but going from the long string to work out what folded up knotted shape it makes is really really really really super super super hard. We understand one of the physics today we have you. No, I quit
since that could work out, are you just not grant shrill, and if you let us say that you could solve this problem that say to you. Could have a computer could grant through all the possibilities. What that would mean, as you could say, I want a protein that says this function. I want protein that can combat this disease. I want a protein act, Nobody in this way, what shape is it you know it? shape. Okay, now what is the string of amino acids? I need to print to turn to create that right. At me, I'm talking like long long long time had he's not like things that around the corner, but I mean, however, there are some applications of this, and that means that actually Romans, the Romans intent, but who cares about romance when you got pricing other such truckers listening attentively here, because he wants another forever for a funny joke? I think I really don't. Why would I change anything now how?
fold your words together, guarantee that a funny job on the other side that that I'm sure there's an algorithm for that you and believe me. I would love that it's funny, because it sounds like we're talking about quantum computing. The implacable in part extreme level about it, if you could get the pact computing power I don't know problems would just be sovereign, independent, whoever they spend time. Looking at that David, I'd like I have to reiterate, have you ever take away the romance of the quest for me a little bit. I think a little bit Looking at the side, you didn't say I was ass. Well may do you think do you think the full copper was unromantic? Yes, yes, I mean, I pick because you know we have equal empty square. That in our children right down. That equation is one of the most profound equations. In the universe.
How many forces are there in the universe? Is not thousands theirs for a right in the end early universe. Them is fewer if you want to have a bias. Philosophical bias that when I put the curtains, I want to find simplicity, rather than complex. Do you think the simplicity always exists, though? Or do you think I see sometimes with Europe? Is this you can get like drawn into the sort of other neighbours like as it does in fact potion simplicity, but maybe a year, and so here's a here's. My lesson that I have to tell myself to get out of this sort of state of romance your Highness Kepler when he first showed the Lee The planets are going around the sun and he was trying to figure out what kind of or Vassili have and about their distances and He had a system where he is a mathematician, and you know that the five platonic solemn right do you know
this turn of five dollars? Now it's it's a great friend. That's that's what I was looking for less exactly what I was looking. So how do we want? Before I saw a guy to know, Plato was like super into this idea of everything been perfect, so the Potomac files are the five shapes. Be created where every side of the ship is the same, so Q. Is it some excited every sighted square tetrahedron I want to eat in doubt. Under his room and was the last one. I procedure, as the cathedral figure left out there, that about pyramid, which is whether the four sided attach tetrahedron. Now she said it will use, are educated, arrogant, fives, so tetrahedron technically have continued, yeah. You know I gotta he's gonna dodecahedron rights.
So those have up have the same shape polygon on all sides, but only five, so Kepler knew that and he also knew that there were six planets and, everything is perfect in divine and math is perfect, may be the planet. Are the separations occupy words in a separate. Between nested clutter, if I may so, he took them in Nestor them and put planet words any actually got pretty close. It was like, but this was his ideal This was his sense of perfection that he was imposing on nature and was all bullshit you can offer. No, I think I think some I think it does happen when people fall in love with the simplicity of the Iberian. Forget that often the world's really ugly
yeah. So I used the Kepler example we had to his credit. It took him fifteen years, but to his credit, that ten years when he discarded the entire system and out came elliptical orbits, we argued for the job in their own way, where those beautiful it's perfect circles, as as Copernicus had presumed that shit, in expressing our right. Let's go to John Baker from patriarch. He says hi guys, I'm back to prove my ignorance. Yet again, what kind of empirical data is used? Well, first, let me ask a core question: what does it mean to use an algorithm? Not that I couldn't look it up wiki or I couldn t pay the tensions. Cool
of John Bagger? This guy's amazing anyway that because you know what I should, as I said, a let off with this question, but because the truth is what we never have touched upon in the show, yet What does the algorithm now? What is it had an outer than one or one difficulty when a wine agreement this gigantic umbrella tab. Doesn't really mean very much, is the reason why people hate the words, I might say All it is is a series of logical step to take you from some input to some kind of output. Right, say a recipe, a Kate recipe that counts. Then you're imposing or ingredients the logical step through the respite self doubt as the cake that you get the end. The difference there is when people whether they went away a kick recipes. Afloat short. I would think for centuries and are going to be a minute like a giant like
according the what orangist is that this giant all encompassing turn, but I think, people use it. They tend to mean something within a computer as something Wagner inputting some data. Andy The machine has some kind of autonomy in terms of the decisions that it makes on the way and spit sound answer at the end. Of course, your computer programs, Then everything you do and a computer program is an algorithm. Is that We're not near although I think that when you people use the word, you know if you go like did you did you learn as it does? That expression was the biggest got persisting like it's like a commodore, sixty four ass, the thing right, let's code on both the American One, where we do the Congo Sixty four was the american version. I'm watching
and it was Hannah is eighty years as gonna stay, I wanna until my video mouselike. They got a closer look at workers rights because right ministries in a little window on my screen. Hurry like in her life only thirties leaves with money, and this is all about cobbler system or is it my eyes? Grandma attack was gravel untiring. When I went to her she's a charging. Sadly they will so my that expansion is gonna, be bridged, equivalent you d, like print hello go to line tat, and then it just go by around around around this, be like the hopeful husband with a light right. I've got a program that everyone definite like it and tat please now rhythm is just a really rubbish. Not physique, not really doing anything. So I think
use. The word attend, meaning is like some kind of automated decisionmaking, faster of really what they mean, but I thought I d: have we been absolutely bad? Wet algorithm encompasses all offence, a truck a person had more to the question, but we just went out time and the second. So when we come back with me, more than the axed shared this questioner, who wondered whether he should have learned all this in school in the first place, This is starting cosmic berries Hey would like to give a patreon shout out to the following: Patreon Patrons Dan Mcgowan and Sullivan S Poulsen. Thank you so much for your support. You know without you we just couldn't do this show and if any of you out there listening, would like your very own patreon shout out. Please go to patreon.
Coms last start talk, radio and support us we're back very algorithms and data tradition. You never thought we go there, but we did so there. I got chuck, of course, and Professor Hannah FRY Associate professor of mathematics at university. London you share, which is really are in a session that you live in Greenwich and we ve all heard of granite. Even if you never been there Greenwich time, that's like the time the base time of the world right. We cannot talk about that flag around the house took me to you ve socratic, seventy lived over four years will say they take me to move
I have to realise that Greenwich meantime is The word mean in it actually means average mean across an entire. I didn't know that tired. Of course, twenty four hours a day is twenty four hours. That's nice five thousand outwards yeah, it's exactly but the time it takes this. The time it takes the sun to return to a spot on this guy on average is twenty four hours. Sometimes it takes longer. Sometimes it takes less people. Yeah they I wasn t happily drinking my Greenwich meantime logger and wandering around at Greenwich. Meantime, village, and I didn't realize that mean men average mean nothing to do with the emotional state of your term so check with. Da someone upset that he didn't meaning about rhythm of school, but I think, was a question based rather than what does it mean to use an algorithm? So ok
then how did it like a well a recipe? Is an algorithm like him, but I like what had I liked the distinction is making as we go forward in the twenty first century, that we think of algorithms as an automated procedure laid down in something how you doing something amazing vision? And I think that there is a third with distinction there's, while between an algorithm and artificial intelligence, and I think that, like the way I think this is let's say you: ve got us a smart light, bulb. There's gonna connected to the internet. You size, programming for the tens on ethics, talking goes off. Eleven o Clock said ass an hour. They might use broken. Did you said if it takes a talk, turn off right? If the all sat on weapons this is just a straightforward algorithm if it was artificial intelligence. Broadly speaking, most but agree. The office intelligence needs to include some the aspect of learning, so instead the light bulb would recognize is that you came home at six. O clock intend to lie on would recognise the lungs dim switch.
You know nine p m. We need you to reading and then go to bed at eleven o clock safe, it started to learn from its environment and then impose station was itself that counts is and but but but that simply an updated algorithm yeah. Yeah exactly is something this continuing revising its burger forgot, where you got your husband In addition to that, though, it is also, more importantly, pattern recognition. So the update is based on the recognition of patterns taking great yeah. The which was very hard and very recently are you scared me a little when you began that comment, because you said: and in a smart libel, and I thought, aren't smart robots
enough. What would a smart light? Blog title Marshall down the street cars? Have you had any time you love the smart light bulbs and I must die in order for us to sign. Humans must die exactly at. In fact, they would favour dig up the joke from there's a comedian whose twitter handle is Science can medium and, quote him every now, and then what about one of my favorite jokes of his? What comments was the light bulb was such a good idea, It became a symbol for good idea, has finally serve light. Bulbs become, are overlooked they will remind us where any time
something. Brilliant is one of them. I don't think we don't know what you're thinking while we only know what you're thinking of it's a good thing That's good thought we now that's funny so decides to meet its breadth brain now. Then we're gonna dig about nice. Ok, you got another question, urge a sure thing, Ben sellers and burn wants to know this, from an evolution standpoint, our relationships and meeting behaviors, probably follow patterns useful for hunter gatherers? How do I papers on social media dating websites resemble patterns from more primitive days. What would make interacting online more connected to our primitive programming? I don't know if this is your purview had. He's he's? Making a really you know pretty pretty poignant associated yet is we now find people online, that's how we find of now I mean
and the member is only going up every year due to hunt. Gathered you no brain sets actually applied. Why don't we go after one another digitally? I love it sank under foraging origin love is all we can to conquer gather brought away. It is gonna forging swipe right, swipe, ripe hunting there. I sleep. One of the very first thing I did. What I think I can speak stage was active, is really till he talk that was like ass. She spoke is gonna private Jake. I just got really our hands, which was called the lots of love right wishes. Impart looking at data or from dating websites, I hate you, This thing where I just wanted to demonstrate that you can take a mathematical view to everything and you may go Serbia has evidence that the attacks and
at the end. There was something that was really anything. I think he's relevance this, which is where we're just different quivering most people who have fought to get out of hand. Dont interfering TED sucks, so it requires some level of brilliant to its advantage. Distinguished you from everybody I'll get you a big counter to so your TED two months ago. I think well for a number of years in prison. He beside gonna be dogs, love, and I was like Is this a joke guys if no There is really not that long ago, so it is one of the things I thought that was about its most tension right he's by just get my stanched inundating websites. I knew it Ok, surely it's gonna be the people who everyone considers is best looking right at me. Surely right the most tragic people get them as centres, but so ok, keepers, convent interesting data
like this for a while, then they would totally open about the fact that they were experimenting to make us move and like really so that they stuff and also on their website what you relax, do is right how attractive you thought. Other people were on a scale between one in five right say, finds very beautiful one. I think slightly more effectually challenged the technical term. I want what they found. Was there not true that just the people who get funny statements, tensions. It was the people who travel I did opinion the most, so the people who were their most attention will, like averaging out, is kind of a four, but they wouldn't be where everyone was giving them before they were people why some people will give them five and lots of people given the ones people thought they were actually horrific and some people's already beautiful and the accident for this reason I quite like is kind of like an instinctive wine, so I guess the sort of since the Hunter gatherer thing in a way which is this like a game theory. Right, if you are, if you come
for someone in using their very beautiful there You imagine that getting lots of attention and you think we'll. Why would I like there's no point in throwing my hat and not ring on my cell standby, whereas if you because someone who you think is very beautiful, you imagine other people were really dislikes, is something so he's. There could be unusual in some way then you're, a gray, whiskers bus isn't gonna be getting my most attentively colored like through, throw yourself in is because everyone staying out, that means it's the radio for people who are not getting any attention in the kind of work you once again lots while we're. So so what you say, apart from the the then the Socio Cultural lessons from is algorithms that might apply to human behaviour that data that we're not collecting and billions of people provide. Might have some strong evolutionary guidance for us.
It is always a task in Libya, back the Englishman, isn't it by taking that you can. You can certainly come up with these game theoretic arguments for the partners in our behavior, I mean I do know is that if a survival but am- but I think that both the fund to explore But maybe means you have an algorithm that applies that that's established in one environment. My truck was saying your honor the claims of the Serengeti and there's a certain algorithm for our behaviour that we can't shake, because its genetically coded within us, but yeah I may perhaps again, and then I guess that until it is and budgets you will notice must better. But yeah like I'm. I don't doubt to Angela that there are lots of occasions. We actually instinctively where you know our ancient our ancient
his tree causes us to act in a certain way. I'm sure that we do still, even when we are interacting with people on a completely different back onto the one that we were designed for. So, tragically contrivred, maybe one or two more questions. Now God, what would happen to another. So man, I haven't Levin pages. Are you gonna get him, then how many people are really like interested in this subject, its unbeliever a logo on Thursday, seven hundred and eleven. Rapid adoption trying to find one? Ok, here's one! Okay! This is dean from Twitter and dean. But trot you just choosing people whose names you component Pronounced Opel names. I let me go with them instead I'll go. With t, allow man ass any of us but sure,
yellow. Now then thought at this moment and robs remember the last minute was sorry. The book you think we're gonna do so against the wicked bandied Maria, business, yellow young man, young ones, ok from Twitter. He says I'm sorry. I just it is assumed that the game on behaviour data is already over. The next level is biological data and the one after that is thought. Police What are your expresses? Expertise is and what do you think the outcomes will be so what he's really talk about? There is predictive analytics where we ever get predictable. Alludes to a boy
where you have pre crime like you, didn't commit a crime, but you know what we know you're going to commit this crime, because these algorithms have actually profiles you in such a way. That tells us that you a problem Hannah. You said that about about fennel, You did If you know that much about who a person is if they by famine, I'd, love or checks, church said there can. Can you get? Are the algorithms so that they know your thoughts and then they know your next behaviorally pre arrest, someone about fine, not the fact that this is such a tough something. I like, I think, she's, gentlemen, kept talking about this Haiti, policing, algorithms engrossing amateur book again, just we get icicles Heller Wild and I will a world life in the age of a common what they gave us a comic book. It sucks.
In america- think it's how to be human in the age of the algorithm major letter, that's where they will go to see. I can't remember what the member mother thought. I subtitles departed. America rigid and sometimes you translate between two English speaking countries could have left items like I can't say right. This is not a really tough topic, because the thing is that some people have definitely try to Cuba is that there have been some situations in which people have tried, four days out those wanting to take an example in Chicago. I think it was where they, the idea, was quite straightforward right which incite ok well when it The gun crime. Often today's victims at moors perpetrators serve you analyze. The network of a people who, in her youth people a friend's baby new people hang out with you and I network and see unfading, where events are happening, canyon, You come up with a risk school if you like, this is kind of like yours.
The threshold in the usual him, but only with with with lightning. Can you come on without a risk score. That says, we think that this group of people or desperate people are likely to be. Something in the near future and when this whole system was set up, we set up a kind of a nice way or like. I think it was set up with good intentions, because the idea was that if your name appeared on this list, then police and social is and will come into your house, and they were to be like the intervention in advance. Rather is like you know here are these programmes that you can join here. Alternatives that you can hear was want to help you out of this life you're right. I was gonna like the intention of course was it didn't work out away, because if you give that lead to people, you ve got completely different set of priorities. As soon as there was you gun homicide, it turned out that people take these lessons. Does the lesson and just ass. It arresting all the way down. So by the end, you rascal person to this analysis. If the whole project
by the end. The people we were on the list were remember the numbers basically way more times at way, more likely to have been arrested by the police at regardless of whether they were involved in the original crimes then she attended journalists are harassed and let's try- and I think this is, I think in it. In like a lab setting in kind of a cop, the cold Environment is like an ivory tower. Actually, I think, they're all said things that you can say about. Like likely heard you know like there are. There are some people you can pick out who you know in a million years than ever, gonna commit a gun homesite, and then there are the. Oh you're gonna, perhaps on quite in the same boat. I think there are some things that you could say about humans, but the problem is it the Isn't this ivory tower? You can't might create a system that gives information because it doesnt then tell you what you're supposed to do with it, to tell you how you spoke to interact people, don't tell you what you're supposed to do that and I think that I haven't yet.
Of a really positive story where people have tried to do something like that- and it's gone really well, because if this thing is just like into that yeah, the real weld is messing. The real weld is messing up and I think, there's a. I will figure out what to do with the data. Nothing, but I oil will know to become our overlords and subjugate us, because we can't take care of ourselves. Definitely, while I also right, I thought was a thousand point like a couple of years ago, where everyone I mean genuinely newspaper articles had that's too to life or just feet in the air I built predict. Everything is so is because you listen he's got you max alchemy. He did this amazing projects where he had our memories and how many thousands of kids right thousands of gives new data on them from when they were when they
a born when they were five years old, ten years and all the way up into the teens, and he had everything on the radio Instead, he I've inches written on imaginable, not big big big data right on these kids and did very cleverly. Is he released the data to the public and and so on, in stages, and he held back the last stage when they were. I think eighteen and he asked people all around the world, he said, he's everything nobody's kids from north fifteen. I want you to predict how many of them, having trouble how many of them went on further education, all of those different context and everyone around the world with a very clever I and their very clever. All of this on the other are try to do it. Would you you know what came out on top linear reduction basic, the most basic basic points.
Was gone before work hot. What will happen again at the official line to the trend in the data young? There? You have it yeah chuckling case in order to Lydia regression is the very best a line through the data safe than to put more syllables. To that right, your correction, I ask you to draw a line. I think you are So I got my right guys by the way I would probably fact had bowed slightly, but it may have been a jet whatever I may, by tying a couple of those banks rob, but whether we hear the size of its four. If it's a great story, I'm I'm sticking with that. We gotta brings to a close, but we have to have had a back. We ve only just scratch. The surface is pursued with eleven pages. Clearly the trigger an interest in our fan base, and I want more of you as we go forward, but I think correct. Hurrah Hannah that one of the great lessons of this is
really? Maybe everyone should have paid attention to their math class, because math movie math will be the foundational forces define our social culturally, since in this world it did I ever Take that hand arena yeah nice. Having those effigy always thinks like. If I think that is really hard to realize how important this stuff is, because these invisible, I kind of thing The drones like Jones came along and then all of a sudden, never later drains everywhere and ever got really upset. Now you gotta have every licence us voted that fly dry and I always think the like. If you could see In the same way that you could see drones, I think it would be a lot more willing to well on it really. I think they Dave want to educate them, says a lot more about it. Sam They want more than just be really annoyed by algorithms like they are drawn, so ok, guys, we gotta, we gotta wrap this up
I had a thank you very much for sure you, wisdom, your insights and some of it pleasing some of its scary part of what we need going forward Jack. I was good to have always pleasure our right. This has been a cosmic queries. Addition data and algorithms gotta call acquits there. Neil, the grass Thyssen, your personal astrophysicist, leading you as always to keep looking up.
Transcript generated on 2020-07-19.