Is ET hiding in the alien oceans of our solar system? Neil deGrasse Tyson and Jordan Klepper answer Cosmic Queries with Kevin Peter Hand, PhD, astrobiologist at NASA/JPL, author of “Alien Oceans,” and deputy project scientist on the Europa Mission.
NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons and All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/show/cosmic-queries-alien-oceans/
Thanks to our Patrons Matthew Pounsett, Tom Bock, Daniel Hargrove, Janice Vick, Jill Burkey, Sinai Coons, Derek Lee Snow, and Mike Rafalko for supporting us this week.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Have you ever had that dream? Where you're trying to take your business remote and its super confusing? But then you hear of bondage add for their team of remote business experts that you can just call and they can put a whole plan together. She, your business, can easily work from anywhere and on top of that, they can even sort you out with a video api. They you can use to build video into your absent websites. Have you ever had that dream will now
It's an actual real thing that you can do you don't need to get into remsen anymore, to make your business communication dreams come true. All you need to do is call bondage now we're talking.
Welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide knocked off begin right now. This is a start. I mean it
station, your personal astrophysicist and it's a cosmic.
search for life in the universe, CO, host, Jordan, Clever, Jordan,
I miss you man, I had you has closed once, like we gotta, do this more male, I'm I'm glad to be here. I would today were searching for life ever searching for connection and we ve connected so step. One company,
I need it more than ever right now, so I it's good to hear your voice. I need to consolation, let's hope, there's more things out there in the universe,
fingers crossed that's what, let's. Let's hope so, let's hope so so why carry some expertise
this. I carry nowhere near what is necessary to be
expert on this cosmic queries and we got
open hand Kevin from the jet propulsion laboratories, Pasadena. California, welcome to start
thanks, NEO good to see you again and thanks for having me they're here and you you, you just published a book called like
Ilium Ocean. That's audacious and exciting topic desire, Ivan passion,
about it, then,
sorry to share it with, though with everybody out there, I've got a big fat, sometimes the search for life
the depths of space. That's love it by a Princeton press. So
We know it's gonna, be sorted academically, enlightening and plus. I just noticed that your twitter,
handle is alien. Oceans, that's right is worthy of support that its funding, the way you can coordinate these things have been working on the boat for a long time and in the book
dive into our own alien ocean here on earth, and then we go
into our own backyard in the solar system and look at oceans
that exist in the outer source, to some that normal life
Don't you do know if alien oceans will be opened on memorial is that local government or to have any inside you, can open the box
so alien oceans, why not look for aliens and places other than oceans? Well, we are, and we should- and I hope that we can pursue all of these different dimension.
In places that when it comes to exploration, but these
The of the outer solar system, these worlds like Europa and salaries, and tighten these
our worlds where liquid water could be today and, of course,
if we have learned anything from our study of life on earth, it's out where you find the liquid water, you generally find life, and so these worlds are incredibly compelling places to go.
Certainly not just fine life, but life that is alive today, life that we could study and
and I understand its fundamental biochemistry, so you are using an earth, biased approach to the search for life elsewhere,
that's it I'm here and now, as Carl Sagan used to say it is a carbon chauvinist than that.
And of em
This really boring ready to reach with sea, so he knows he's guilty. I know I do
What would you broke through the buyers you get as much really underneath and if nothing on all right, it's like the atmosphere,
it's, not a spectacular. What? What do you think of carbon chauvinism? I am. I come from a long line of demarcation over the girl. I have empathy towards that. My grandfather was a hybrid chauvinists.
Dad what he has a future, but it relates to the carbon chauvinists, just a mass, really a mass heretics explosive, but wait. It's one thing to be made of carbon com is a pretty
pretty fertile molecule Adam to make all kinds of molecules
Haven't you going beyond just after life is made of carbon you're. Also assume
that it requires liquid water, this
seems to me yet right so snowy carbon chauvinist you're, liquid water chauvinist.
That's right, and so now in the book, I do go into. There's that there's a whole chapter on
speculating about a periodic table for life. Could there be met
different morality as many different chemistry's etc, but is good
isn't to at least initially.
Target our search for water and carbon based life, and the reason for that is because, of course, scientifically we
it's a frame and hypothesis and so based on life on earth and how life on earth were
I can. We can put forth the hypothesis that, if you bring together liquid water,
carbon and abandoned smattering of roughly fifty three other elements from the periodic table,
plus some energy etc to maybe get wet where it fifty three, the first smattering of half the elements,
I gotta go to hang a picnic element. If somebody, some of them are more born, then let us allow the guy has. No sun offers first you're a carbon shove. It is an EU completely disregarding have the elements who is this guy? It's me, it's really carbon in nitrogen and you know you got some fosters maybe low sulphur fuel. I merely ok, you know those either the big five six elements in their so away, but the key back to the water and the carbon is that we can. We can formulate this hypothesis that, if conditions
arson similar to what we find inhabitable via environments here on earth and potentially
in environments that we think work
use of to the origin of life, if those kinds of environments exist elsewhere on our solar system, then perhaps those in
since those alien oceans curve
have given rise to live, there could be a separate, independent origin of life and those worlds could potentially be inhabited by. I gotta philosophical question for you. If you are only looking for life, did you expect?
and you find it. One should be missing all the life that you don't expect
that might be way more interesting than life? You expect of wine
I am so here's the key with Eddie
with any mission with any spacecraft mission. Frankly with
experiment that we do in a laboratory here on our someplace, but we have to do
I'm the experiment around and hypothesis, but all
try to make sure that the experiment is well formulated such that we can make
discoveries that we did not expect to make.
A discovery mode, assertive remote. I think that's a nice where, to put it, set yourself up to be surprised so that your life
of creativity in the planning stages is actually a bonus in the discussion.
Goodbye goodbye. Sir George, you collective questions from needed it put on this very subject. So what you have, if you led off with our patriarch
because we're beholden to them as supporters of the child, but then emerald spill out into others who have asked
We have chosen to not support
I want to start right off with Patria Patron,
the end Bjorn Bird Swinburne's question is: will we have problems in the near future that will be able to take photos or videos beneath these
our world Rex. Ah. Well, it's a great question and one that is very near dear to my heart, because you have to dig through the ice leading the way
It's not surface water right. It's like below
kilometers thick layer of ice.
So you got that right. If you work cut out for you,
It's right himself, believers us than ever.
Depends on how you define near term
thousand years sure,
So this business is not for the faint hearts. I've been studying Europa and working towards trying to
missions out Europe of four fifteen to twenty years now, and we are a bit
closer. So NASA has committed to a fly by mentioning mission that will I orbit. Jupiter
Flyby Europa, some forty five plus times and that's called the Europe clipper mission.
But I'm part of that mission, but I'm also working very hard to get a land or down to Europe a surface and hopefully
that mission would happen in the hopefully would land in the twenty ease timeframe, but that's highly uncertain. We have no
many men from NASA or the government etc to get that mission done so I just had to bring Jordan and Unsafe Jordan. You should know that in science one of the first rules is whatever experiment. You're part of it has to finish it before you.
Get that, just as it is
I will say what what you're describing. I have a bunch of screenplays that I don't think we'll get the finished in my life. I have one
higher idea about me as a sexy cowboy that, for some reason I've had studio exacts. Tell me this is
I'm going to have it in your life grammar dislike to the idea?
It's not in this life! That's what I get that you want to. Let this I'm leaving this for the next generation. Yes,
Jordan, sexy cowboy scripts and Europa now proved their worth
a further twenty thirty region does not yet go through the ice that just lands and looks around right. Well
Let's give then we ve got all sorts of novel, drills and and our ways the sample the upper tens of centimetres, and that would help them
the stage for a follow on mission. That would
a drill or melt through the ice in them as they get into the ocean after you're. Dead,
What will here's the thing? The data to be? In warm words? What is no that's your answer to defend.
How do you define near term keep them by do as it was four hundred years ago over four hundred years ago, that Galileo discover these limits, and so
is depressing as it can be to work
his missions, that job that
so long. I do like to keep it in perspective in that
for the first time in the history of humanity. We can actually get this exploration done. Ah, it's then
Four hundred years since Galileo discovered these movements, I guess I sort of approach it like
these spacecraft are,
a modern version of cathedral
These are incredibly complex undertakings date,
a long term commitment which, obviously, in some of this day and age in the political, Windsor Long term, commitments are hard to come by so
it's it's frustrating, but at the same time, your fortunate that I get to be a part of even a little bit of the Jordan he. Why would he doktor? He did it again. Jordan think he can't get a builder
I'm so now there cathedrals I just as an atheist myself now you're making me not want to get into a space. Like my lad, I already know negative gonna than ever now I got an Aspasia
what were there's a thing technologically coming back today, the you need the main question
there is nothing there, no magic wands that need to be invented to get us through that. I say that for
the very bottom. And yes, you are your lot me all you getting too.
Nearest star, if we were tasked with doing that within a hundred years, we'd have to invent some new fangled warp drive
it's a magic wand,
is no magic wand needed to be invented in order to get through the ice of Europa and into the ocean
if you could magically transport-
The Alvin then submersible, one of arms,
primary human submersibles ever used for the exploration of arrows, if you can,
ITALY, transport that your opposition
Would you fine for at least the upper half of that ocean once again to the lower out the deeper ass if the pressures would be a bit extreme, but nevertheless, most of our submersibles woodwork five will really
How deep or Europe is ocean. So Europe is ocean, is about one hundred kilometers or sixty miles in Depth- oh my god,
and how on earth the deepest like five miles down or but seven miles, eleven kilometers and just by a fun
work of the solar system. Europa gravity is about a seventh of the earth and what that
means is that, even though the ocean is about ten times as deep as the earth, the pressure at the death of Europe is ocean. At the sea floor of Europe is ocean is comparable to the pressure in the death of the merry on a trench.
Invest region of our own ocean and saw the submersibles that go down to the Marianna trench. Would
do well in Europe is ocean. If you could get them through the ice, you set a fly there and milk.
The ocean and advice and in sync it at an end and doesn't haven't, have somebody in it
and have any other said, an astronaut to go well. So, of course it is this is it
Pitiful tapestries, though Jordan, I like it when you say that, like it's gonna need, it's gonna need a appearance, the computer, all references to get tough one. Now
gimme another Gimme, another another, a patron question, and all right. Yet this is from a patriotic patron Dave W, given that
I share that life exists in the oceans of Enceladus. Why is it Saturday?
put it in the habitable zone of our solar system. Is the idea of a habitable zone even helpful for the search for extra terrestrial light love their question cabin
our piazza a great one and two pieces out. I dive into there for
on the habitable zone, the the questioners spot on- and I go into this in the book these ill-
in oceans of the outer solar system are redefining the habitable zone.
In the early days of astronomy and planetary science. There was this conception of the habitable zone where, in
riverworld to be habitable. You had to be just the right distance from your parent star. In our case, the sun such that liquid water could be,
maintained and sustained on the surface majority,
like Venus you're too hot,
far away like Mars, you would you called it you're the earth, some distance you're in that kind of Goldilocks Zone or the traditional habitable zone, but what
these worlds like Europa. Enceladus are teaching us in know, teaching us that we have to take a break.
When we come back, then we will find out what the modern understanding of a habitable zone
Jordan help me a little about it. I haven't thought about supple lighters bite us like the MAR zone. That is what they were. The Goldilocks data there that the re emerging Goldilocks zone has a different understanding, so give it will get right back to you right after this breakthrough
Listen, you know you won't stop working until you reach our goals and neither will w g you it's why they ve created an online university for people whose ambition never rest,
W G use. Innovative competency based learning model was designed specifically to fit in the lives of busy adults
W G use a nonprofit offering online bachelors and masters degrees in business. I t education and nursing. You can move through the material you
ready now and spend time learning what you don't, which means the faster. You demonstrate what you know the faster you finish its also about her.
The cost of most other online universities, so you congratulate with far less death or none at all. Get your sixty five dollar application fee waved a w
EU that eighty use last start talk. That's w g, you dad.
D? You slash star, talk.
We're bad startle cosmic wary search for Alien Life Edition
and we have my covers jordan-
Your love, avenue, love it
be here I shall take all the connection. I can get thank you and by the way you tweet, Jordan, Clever right! That's your pure twitter him
yeah. You can find me easy just know my name, no clarity, Vietnam, but if you have done the hard part of figure out who I am and Kevin hand at the jet propulsion webs your director of the deep ocean
aren't you did. I say that right, the Ocean worlds, La Sledge Worlds LAB at the jet propulsion labs and President California, and we we left off. We left the last segments where we understood the traditional classic definition of
habitable zone goldilocks or not to close, not too far just right for liquid water? What do we do about that idea now right now that we got moves way outside the that zone debtor kept war
what's going on right, so we ve got this new Goldilocks in town, where the
energy for maintaining and sustaining liquid water comes not from
parents star rather from the title tugging, pull that these moons experience as they orbit there there giant primaries Europa, orbits, Jupiter and Jupiters
three hundred and eighteen times as massive as the earth and Europe is about the size of armor
and so ass, Europa is orbiting. Jupiter it's getting tugged and stretched and that internal mechanical energy
is converted into heat and that sheet
to maintain the liquid water ocean beneath Europe as icy shop, so tat it would otherwise become. It would always be completely frozen. I without that that's right
Third, there would be some radio genetic decay. Some have your elements that that might supplies from heat that could maintain an ocean ready rate agenda. Today, radio activity, that's right, exactly broker an arm and so
the tides, combined with a radio activity, provide some heat two m to maintain an ocean beneath the ice.
But there is so in this new habitable zone. I don't want to go on appreciated that another curious,
four factors of our universe is that ice floats and if I did not float
Then, even if you had the tidal energy for maintaining the liquid water in this kind of new habitable zone,
of ties as opposed to solar energy. If I did not flows
you would not have a nice
all barrier over these oceans, protecting these oceans from space and so
just like your old building in a blue or building a snowford, where you cry
inside and all the son, your nice warm ice.
Snow is on Europa and scientists form a thermal blankets over
the oceans that are being heated from within five times. It is fair to say that if you crawl into it,
in igloo you're, nice warm as opposed to say, if you counter ego,
You're not as cold as well, yes I'll, say it right,
but I think Igloo insider out, I'm not thinking cosy, say I see a positive you're telling me martini that shaken with a nice little ice layer is going to take similar on Europa that, as it would here and say, downtown Manhattan.
I'll, go with yes,
actually said that you wouldn't like it, wouldn't really that it was the right amount of Jane a little bit. We kitty olive
Neither do I don't think, there's a lot of salt on Europe, where you can make a margarita. If you want. You know there's too,
The saying is, we can still think of a habitable zone, but not as some restricted place in the circumference of Aceh.
Are there haven't zone as any place you can have liquid water.
Could be wherever there's a source of peep? That's
and so these subsurface oceans, as I am describing the air in the book these Europa is, could be ubiquitous and so when we think about habitable real estate in our universe.
These subsurface liquid water oceans could be they the predominant place where life resides
This is why so many of those such place in our own backyards. Right, I say
Now that the questioner had a the beginning. Part of that question was, since it
likely that life exists within insult us. I just want to pick that apart
little bit. We don't know whether not life is likely. We can put forth that hypothesis that the conditions within Enceladus in Europe and some of these other world,
might be conducive to life's origins and then habitable by current cabin, the that that's the scientists way that gives me
as a headline by the pressing scientists found life on itself.
The view that the conditions are such that possible could have the likelihood of life when I found a vote, but we gotta get it
we're not even bagger lies its a bit about a thing about it, more teenage with all their might, but the as much as I would love to find life beyond earth, as beautiful as a discovery would be the norm.
Discovery of life. If we were to go to many of these worlds, Europa and Mars that and fine, not a whiff of lights.
Also is potentially equally profound discovery in terms of the rarity of life and death.
The biological singularity that life on earth might represent, so Jordan joint. He did it again if it, if its firm, it failed
That's a great was ass great, a really that's the reason I wish I wish. I have listened to your explanation on this podcast back when I was taking classes in high school and I could use. Might you know I could do well? I could study I could pass the test, but if I stay there are some life lessons about money, but that's it when you're doing an experiment as long as it's a well designed experiment, the outcomes
Ah, I yield knowledge either way,
led to the grand nobody.
gimme. Another question: what did not go- and I do you know what this is coming from Facebook and he's come and he's coming out us he's questioning some assumptions. Okay, this is lead daily from Facebook. He wonders
life and our own oceans, not terrifying
shot fired life
I don't know quite how to intervene
I would say, I've gotta make nine dive
the bottom of our ocean men and also have a part of a number of expeditions to send robots stand our ocean, and it's not. I would
Qualified is terrifying. It's beautiful! It's astonishing! It's just jawdropping Lee.
Yeah bizarre on one of my dies. We encountered this,
To meet her diameter space bagel like creature, that was it
this undulating jellyfish, and
seeing life within our ocean in studying life within our ocean helps
form, not only how our home planet works and and
understanding the biological diversity of planet earth.
Also just guides us an inspires us when we think about these deep dark distant oceans beyond
and, in particular, life at the height of from events in our own ocean, as it is really
the kind of oasis in the deep ocean that we look
when we think about what might exist in,
the regions where photosynthesis cannot operate in his eyes covered oceans, like your open, its borders with the hydrothermal vents, it's where the current answer separating and you got
there's a force of heat. If not the sun. That's right! That's!
under under Lee and deep so deep tat the sun can't reach sunlight, doesn't
So you can have life there. It's gotta figure some man, that's right! That's that
this, not in your biology book, had that's right. Traditionally, we learn that the food chain
the animals, eat animals and plants, and so on and so forth, and eventually you get down to photosynthesis and photo said.
Serves as the base of the food chain-
well when you go into the depths of our ocean. Of course, sunlight doesn't get there, and so photosynthesis can't form the base of the food chain, but why
microbiologists found back in the late nineteenth subsidies is that these hot springs these these harder from events at the bottom of our own.
Provide a tremendous menu of interesting compounds: the microbes love they eat for luncheon dinner, and I am Dave
and that, due to most emphasis using the chemistry to subsidize the compounds they need
and then other organisms eat those microbes and so on and so forth. So he gets this food chain that is fed off the chemistry of the vets, and we think that kind of dynamic that kind of ecosystem
might be an interesting example for what could happen within these ice covered oceans of the outer solar system that keeps you go. There are a good. So what
Next, Jordan, I got, I got one go lorry mullah from Twitter.
We're wonders. Do we have the ability to identify and non carbon based alien life, or will our perspective prevent that? What's NASA's official criteria for identifying alien?
quote unquote like yeah? This is this is the great question if I come and let me let me shape that a little differently to include are part of our earlier discussion. If you are looking for carbon based life, might
Europe does not preclude you from finding silicon base life
short answer is no
as long as you bring the right tools with you and I'll, give you a couple of different examples and again I
the whole chapter on this and the alien oceans? So
those are just joined us in oceans of book.
After I would that they should now, let's just one- and I just want to bring Europe
full disclosure there. We can hear that we're not just the cavalry. Only talking about to go take a swim with the short term. I bought a private sodium
This is a great question Lori and its one that has enlisted many Phds, many grad student, many scientists,
That's one that we debate in the community constantly
There's a thing called the ladder of life that you can go and
I am dutch on Nazism
we'll Astro biology web page. This sort of
here of of what we call Bio signatures and kind of
the efficacy and fidelity of various Bio signatures leading up to
mean that you have actually detected life.
So. For example, we sent a submersible down into Europe. Is ocean and a European Octopus came up,
and waved the camera.
Would be one heck of a vile signature. We would have mobility, we see this, this movement creature. Ah we retention and you wouldn't
what the hell it was made of real role of that programme right there. We actually I ventured to be clear when we are talking about this.
For life and our solar system, whether its mars european soldiers tighten. We are largely talking about the search for even the tiniest
I hope it's such a discovery would revolutionise our understanding of biology and we would do ass the first time in human history. No, that biology actually works beyond earth, but so we're just to be clear, just to be cleared up and if the life you
on another planet is made of dna, then it doesn't revolutionise any
I saw one
Let's let let us come back to that, because that followed the into the other media bigger fighter regard. I that is a great idea. We neither for the radio
We need you gotta stay down right there. So the lorries question there is this ladder of life and end. We ve developed a bio signature framework, in other words, that not just one measurement is announced. You have to make multiple complimentary and
on the measurements. In order to have enough bio signatures that you can then claim that you ve detected the life
and you want to make sure that you have Bio signatures that are as universal as possible, but I haven't just just to be clear. I would we have our audience. This is in astrophysics
using the word universal to apply to the
Universe, most people on earth who use the word universal me all over. That's right
Yes, we are biased.
Universal via signatures being bile signatures that could apply throughout the universe right. What is it? What is it
universal law, your uniform, Miss Universe. You know that this Miss earth really you're about that's right,
What are you universal truth? I'm just talking about what I believe
all we can have more german nervous
besides started a resident but think about universal universe. Biasing issues has think about. If we were to use a dna, pcr machine or instrument,
in searching for life on Europa
garb libraries chain reaction. That's obviously what were using for looking for a lot of their covered nineteen virus. It's it's! What is used by a lot of companies, doing genetic analyses and its great, but they that kind of instrumentation
is contingent on that life using dna, and so, if we send that kind of instrument to Euro Bore and saw the surrounded these other worlds,
we could miss Non DNA Base life
Meanwhile says over innocuous. Enlightened life could be like rodeo
riding the prey right and and your your device doesn't.
I'm DNA and summaries out so game over what about an instrument like a mass spectrometer, ah
I like to make the analogy to amass mass spectrometer kind of being, like a carpenters, hammer,
you'll never go to a job side find a carpenter without a hammer in there to about someplace and mass spectrometer errors or a great way of
sorting and identifying the various compounds, be they carbon compounds, be they silicon
compounds, be they nitrogen compounds, you name it a mass, but charmer gives you that inventory of compounds
What's nice about that, is that life, whether its carbon based life, so it can base life.
All sorts of other permutations that we can't even imagine
almost certainly needs to be specific in the compounds it uses. In other words, life, were you
who's a discreet set of sub unit molecules to build the larger molecules of life,
for life on earth is amino acids, building, proteins, nuclear basis. Building dna
Would allow us to identify the kind of specificity and the building blocks are they included? In these words,
yeah so Mass for travellers of it, the honor Europa Land or model payload that site prime instrument number one is. I will bring something that can without bias give you the molecular inventory
of. What's there now to dna to your question about DNA,
sir. I love this one because it really is quite profound.
If we go to mars- and I love mars- I'm doing some work on March. Twenty twenty is it's a beautiful world. Get me to just
The world will not bring about illegal. Equal footing contain right if we were to go to Mars and find evidence
of DNA based Life- and this would have to be in the sub surface of Mars, because our current
for life on Mars? Is an ancient rocks and dna.
Doesnt last long image rocks. But let us imagine that we got into sub surface of Mars and found a modern than we found. Dna baseline.
I would, and many of my colleagues would probably conclude that that is evidence of a tree.
As for of DNA life from earth to Mars or Mars to earth at some point billions of years ago,
just because Mars and the earth, or near neighbors and impact
events Van asteroids, etc, hitting the earth could have easily objected material.
But then went to Mars, or vice versa, but with Europa. If we went out
Roper or Enceladus, and we found DNA.
Best life, it's much harder for
the sand MIKE
Robiola laid in rocks
or to the Jupiter ones out there as much.
For those rocks casually hit Europa instead of Jupiter,
even if they hit Europa there
the common at something like Levin, kilometers per second or faster and now and then
annihilate themselves, upon impact on the ice, and it's a lot harder for earth rock to bring life to Europa or insult us than it is to Mars,
So if we found DNA based life on Europa, I would argue that that is evidence of biochemical converge.
Its towards DNA as a fundamental molecule fora for life analogous to
go to a rocky Moon somewhere,
I'll send you find courts were thing out. A geologic analogue would be.
Say: minerals. Are there that you find in the geology here on a exactly and just like on earth? We ve had eyes eyes have evolved independently some fifty times may
DNA is just kind of the convergent biochemical molecule that that that happens or not, and which is too
to figure out how easy it is for me
I shook out, but this is why these our solar system is so compelling because there's liquid water there.
And so these are places where
art, vile molecules, understanding the chemistry of the life could be done. We can actually examined whether not dna is the only game in town or there, some other way to get the business of life, and so we are take a quick break before we come back to a third and final segment. This is causing.
Where is this a start on? This is near the rest.
Hey, would like to give a patreon shout out to the following: Patreon Patrons Matthew, pound set and Tom Buck. Thank you guys for your support. We could not do the show without you, and if any of you out there are wanting your own patreon shout out, please go to Patreon
comes last. Our talk, radio and support us Rebecca start up costs with wary Kevin hand on hand who just published a book and the time
alien oceans, alien oceans, that's just the coolest title of a book
ever? And we should be moved with that rapid,
If you get your movie made before mind of Anti journey, and I need some strong characters in the movies, how can we ever gonna combined forces sexy Cover
This grim dying death by squid on Europa
cover with a squid concept come from because in the movie Europa
the Rubber Rebel Europa report. Fear they, like, I think they find a squid. What's up with an answer, I guess I was so. I consulted on that that movie about you, know a little bit about how they came about. That's how you get did also consult on a movie arrival. We get more squid now, but I love them reveals fantastically well done. The concept of that kind of communication are you. I mean I worried. It appears that this weird thing the simplified drawing these circular patterns on this glass.
And no one at any time asked
seeing these backward
got it wrong to hold those who speak about raising rose because the squid drawing for our better.
A for their own, been rightly the baby.
The review that movie from their perspective, I dig the squid was of such high until it
they knew o humans are always gonna, think it's so we might not have that's what
intelligent, did its knowing that somebody else doesn't care,
about you, you have actually or or that there the ego prevents them from having any clue.
About any other way to see the way of a George give out. We tried for like just one or two more questions here. Great distance from Facebook and Brent Way
lock, while searching for life a different planet? Do we risk contaminating aquatic environment with earth biology by taking the plunge
Kevin you're, talking about putting landers on Europa and looking for life? Did somebody sneeze on that lander before left, repeal like what what what mature
this is it. You have you nothing to discover life that you brought there s a great caution and, and one that is very important, and that J, J, Alan and NASA take incredibly seriously and they d short version. Is that spacecraft that our guy
To Mars, to look for signs of life or going to eurobonds out as time is that they are paid out and cooked to kill off
microbes getting rid of asthma, any contaminants are there clean
historically and essentially sterilize, and even on top of that in the Europa Lander mission concept.
So that the lander gets delivered to Jupiter
a vile barrier sort of a little envelope that make sure it's perfectly clean
Lander goes out to the surface and the even after the end of the mission we still wanted to make doubled
sure that it was not gonna contaminate the ocean, and so we have a little mission impossible button on the on the lander. Where her,
this little thermite system that are called
exerts and their national laboratories have design were the last command that the lander would implement is a self destruct button and the thermite would sterilised
this draft even further, I raising it to attempt her with a termite flames.
You gotta turn comes next destination, with an extra yeah you're ready you shooting up and training of debt, America search for sides. Eliza regret. Georgia be soon
you squeeze on a couple more go down.
Here from Phil, Reeves and Facebook?
in finding life on other planets or moods? And our solar system teach us about our life develops
it a gray one and it comes back to the origin of life itself and so on.
Right now. There is quite a bit of debate about how life on earth arose. A Jordan, that's sign, speak for quite a bit of ignorance
Frederick was I'm gonna remaining diet and to be well informed, fact least: ignorance, ignorance, that east I'm
Hello informed is your ignorance, provided there is. I know everything I do so if we, if we think about the history of our interests,
ending of the origin of life on earth. One of the great experiments was there.
The jury experiment where
with some methane and ammonia and war
her created amino acids and all by itself with? No?
that's right, and so the young
ever since then there have been a number of experiments and they're kind of broadly speaking, two camps
one is that the origin of life on earth occurred in some
warm tied fool on the shores of an ancient ocean
if, in the ultra violet light of the sun and then disappear
as the that little time for dried out
the through various cycling. You then get too
and there's another camp. That argues for a hydrothermal vent origin of life, and it turns out that allowed the chemistry of IDA from thence. Ah, my beacons conducive to some of
protein metabolisms, that we think would drive earliest life on earth and soda,
two camps, that there are others, but those are kind of two main camps where the biggest camp is, God did it biggest cave, there's like
camp God so outnumbered by, like God,
is there some time to come
complicated words. No right now
when I put it in terms of fact based ignorance, eyes. Ok, so at least from that standpoint there,
Those two camps over
falls and hydrothermal vents and and so
go to Europa or insult us or Titan, or any these worlds and do not find life.
That helps, inform our understanding of how were of the modalities for the origin of life on earth on Europa or Enceladus. There are no com,
that's their there's, no sunbathing an ancient seashore, either
I do not hide pulls, there's only hydrothermal vents.
And so, if we don't find life on those words, then
perhaps harder from events are not a good place for the origin of life, and we can perhaps conclude that life on earth arose in titles.
Conversely, if we do find life there
then that makes the hydrothermal then origin for life on earth viable? Ah, it doesnt exclude they tied for a theory for life on earth. I happen to think that the origin of life might be
relatively easy and could occur,
many ways in many different places and many different times, but we have the chance to do this experiment
and the exploitation of these alien oceans will help inform our understanding of this issue tremendously. Will I think we just ate up all the time we had. We just have time enough. Just for one
The sentence of reflection from each of you circulation, Jordan, with what is your deep, reflective philosophical perspective now in the times that we live in currently at times of incertainty time in and of itself, has felt along David and slowed down,
hearing about what it would take to get to Europa and that we would have to build cathedrals not only in our own lifetime but another lifetime. I feel like this conversation warped time for me and therefore made my existence right now and my complaints about having to be inside for a week or two feel small in comparison so think
for a little bit of hope, and also through warping
so Kevin. You feel a little bit of cosmic perspective there. Every girl, we would have only aspect, consider the long hours time when you gave in these things so other than by your book. Would but
sentence wisdom? Can you share with us?
I would simply say that
what we know of the four major Sciences, physics camp,
three geology and biology of those four major sciences. The past
Four hundred years have led us to
an understanding that physics works beyond earth that chemistry works. Beyond that the principles of geology work beyond earth
But when it comes to that last that fourth fundamental science biology we have yet to make that leap. We don't yet know whether or not biology works beyond earth
We don't yet know whether the phenomenon that is ass, the phenomenon of life, works beyond earth and part of what excites me about the time in which we live. You know it's gonna take away,
is have for the first time in the history of humanity. We can answer this profound age old.
Question of whether or not we are alone we can get out there,
in our solar system and explore
these alien oceans that are in our own back yard and figure out whether not life exists beyond earth.
But what I wonder is the expression curiosity killed the cat in the case of scientists, there is life on earth there,
wants to kill US corona virus included, and
what a fine life elsewhere. So
the confidence that you have, the there be a good thing.
Whether this shared by everyone on earth, when enough
of life on earth, which is soon have instead dead. So I'm just put in that out. There
and the robots and leave the robots are let the robot obsolete back any talk more about a robot is looking from exile, cabin great to have your unstartled cosmic queries join. I love you man. We do this more often now I'm
Thank you also much excellent has been cosmic queries. Dar talk, I'm Neil digress. Thyssen has always believed.
Transcript generated on 2020-07-19.