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I Toyota suvs, help you conquer trails with confidence, go to your local, the other dealership, Org Toyota, that calm, slash, capable dash as you ve got to learn. More people will tell you as you these Toyota, let's go places- welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. Nor talk begin right now. This is our talk and your host meal. The grass station, your personal astrophysicist and this week is a cosmic queries addition, the always popular cosmic queries and the topic, the always popular search. For life in the universe and I've got with me my caused MAC current man, a hang Al Qaeda. I spent all day yesterday trying to memorize name of Europe. I guess it's probably science better,

I always mangled for another variants I stumbled in my efforts there I found a project called sometimes or mostly. Science is a whole lot of gas pay them knowing, but a running rivalry them it's gonna be technically have robberies. I gotta make sure I get your stuff right. Problems of violence are some points, probably islands. So I'm a little bit about the search for life, but not as much is our guest. Today, I guess it is Sarah Cedar. Sarah welcome to start talk thanks for having me today, the US. Sarah. Let me get your full title appear, so your professor aeronautics and astronautics physics and planet science at MIT. Is that what you know they left out a few category simply not enough It is because the actual planets in the search for life is an incredibly introduced. Unwary topic raw draws upon all those different fields, export bridge between you and me.

and your planetary scientist right. That's really! Yes, yes, I mean my home is really an astrophysics, you can call me astrophysicist or learn about in the club. So I guess search for life in the universe has to know thoroughly include the search for ECHO planet right that they might they go together, but is that part are biased not necessarily we do I mean we're were definitely terror. Centric worst we if we are narrow minded, but at this point that I got centric yet blinkered centric, you know and on earth. We believe that for the origin of life we need a place for ingredients to concentrate and its it's hard to imagine ingredients justino, concentrating in the vastness and that low density about or space acres concentrations that I think, is under celebrated out there that meet in the public that people we take it for granted that we have rocks and buildings and mountains and people and for an hour

greater universe. Nothing is to get married sleep, it's mostly empty and we're not mostly empty, is highly rarefied and so planetary. special places is that they are very special because they do concentrate complex molecules. They concentrate elements nutrients and ever we need. Am I right in thinking they are substantial a special early, less red than we thought they were even live ten years ago. Yes, actually, We are slowly making ourselves less and less precious lesson enough surrogate. It's ok to know that you're not supposed to tell people that I I think those nice about science. I will highlight about the scientists switch between going you're in a very special and you're, not special report.

We do. We love thinking back to the Copernican Revolution where, before Copernicus, the model of the universe was that our earth literally wasn't this center of the universe, all the planets and this and the stars apparently orbiting earth? I think I've heard is an Algerian described. The sequence combination of her and that in the Carl Sagan camp referred to it, as The sequence of great demotions, for whatever imagined ourselves to be plus. There is some rebuttal too that I forgot the fellows name buddy. rope? I think convincingly that the idea that the aid here that we are in the centre is not necessarily an elevated place, if heavens are above us right. So this centre could be the swag heap of where everything collects and your own. my goal is to ascend from that to greater places so in either case? The look she was unique. I think so.

So in his my way, like a plug hold of the universe, whistled a so Sarah View, was it natural to transition from actual planet discovery to the search for life, would you soon have decided not you or was? It is obvious, as the next thing to do you. Every scientist is different. sort of Bin. The random walk Tipp of scientists like work on a problem and see more interesting problem and then move over so slowly, you're doin bring discredit distracted by the squirrel. But I think that when you started out in the lake nineties, weep there we didn't didn't, know many extra planets and even those that we did was and to think of aliens on them, but there was no research programme there. Yet so

it seems to me you were there at the birth of this, if not having birth. It yourself, yes, and in fact, but just to go back even further before my time, perhaps even before yours, but in the decades since they you saw today, ok well you know he's. If, if you look back like even you know, just after the times, at night, like in the early nineties, sixties, there's actually report from a think tank. and have company and it actually talks about planets and echo planets and the chance for other earth, and even in the decades after that, there were always please on? How would we go about finding another earth? And so when excellent us was born in the MID ninety nineties? And yes, I was there, I was a graduate student working on actual planets at the time You know they were hot jupiters. They were not suitable for life in any way, but slowly those

two things came together. You know all the past decades of thinking about earth and switching gears, the hot giant planets and so the thought of fires and life. It was kind of always there in the background, even though it might have been a bit of a stretch. I just to be clear that the Jupiter is that you're, referring to the heart was it was easier to find really massive planets first compared to low masked by You gonna find a Jupiter first and within their hocker's, because why? Because there very close to the star so close to the star that as he did by star there just hot book. I saw the troopers, but they didn't look like our Jupiter, so so there again, we were not just so we here We thought we were representative of the universe and we're not least our solar system right, right. We always expected to find it. Jupiter, where our Jupiter is, which is five times further from our sun, the nurses and instead we found and Jupiter Mass objects within a few years few day period, orbits above the sea.

So, even a bias that would show up every day and race, relations and sexism. It even shows up astrophysics. Just again there- and you know the funny thing this is just to take that level further. When we people first found these hot jupiter so close to the star, we just assumed They had the same albedo. The same reflectance properties as Jupiter itself is quite bright. You know you see in the skies has got icy clouds. and we couldn't see Jupiter reflected light and with a little more thought, we realise, while these hot jupiters their incredibly dark there? Very absorbing they have no reflective clouds Ok, so do not only so that the beekeepers they don't anything like what you are going yes and no, they don't appear like their atmospheres out like Jupiter, about competition there mostly made of hydrogen and helium airports the same I so if you come to this as an extra physicists planetary scientist and now you want to think about life, the goddess

knocking on the doors of biologists are wended. All that happened remarkably It really is sorry, For me, when I had my first staff position, I worked at a place called the Carnegie the city of science. And I was in Washington DC and it's quite into Don't worry there already, and they were already part of working on the somewhat new field back, that of Astro Biology, so I started were interacting with Knowledge is there in the funny thing rises? I gotta post sock there and I assigned him up to work with me: and it literally took us like nine months before we could even understand each other language was so different, so you need coffee lounges! You know between at the intersection of departments, because otherwise We live in our stove pipes and discoveries. Go on an unattended to its true in Turin later on, I attended it asked her biology conference and I met a remarkable person there, who became one of my closest colleagues and so

and threw him had been a biologist. I was able to learn and create more more collaborators and soak up. You have fascinating story. I only recently learned that you ve actually collected that together a kind of a memoir. The smallest lights in the union, So congratulations on a murmur published by crowded twenty twenty because we're all distracted by big explosions in big lights and big things, but maybe the small lights in the universe. I guess these are the actual planets or it could be metaphor for other things in the book that its I just call attention to. Other previously under served domains of the cosmos thanks here says so, let's get a drink. Let's get straight.

to this, what is life you know in exile, planets. We have a good excuse for completely avoiding that question and multilingual run by around by because we have telescopes and we can see admin Fears of other planets were here with our next generation, telescopes, sissy, atmosphere of small rocky planets and we're gonna look for signs of life by way of gases that might be attributed to life that have accumulated in the atmosphere. So we prefer to think about what life does life metabolize and it may give off gases. Jury, not chemical process of metabolism so we conveniently sweep that under the rug- and we just talk about what like us. Are you prepared to rub because you can't do anything about that question anyway. We can't do anything about it and it's just a question. No one wants to agree on what what the answer is. So you button sweep it under the rug and say: let's do it life at observe what life does

so you're the atmosphere gas is equivalent to the people who study animal poop, for example, If things that life does even if you're not studying the life itself, is that that's right not to collaborate. Your study with so we are facing is actually knew about. It has never been done before, so that is brand new Brandon. ran days on planet, a kind of the Animal remains of the governing board. Gashes preferences. I guess yes, it's actually that's it. That's a great way to look at it. Sarah, but but clearly, there, ass is out there and I want to get to the cuban acres met, hasn't lined up. Another want to lose, my time on that, but clearly there there's some gases. Let's take methane, for example,

That we know is the by product of life, not all life, of course, but did some bacterial life on earth. We know that so now, let's look too another place like Saturn's moon tighten, oh my god. It's completely covered it methane. So it must be teeming with life, so we, but it's not so Weird. How? Where would you that's the single most biggest problem that We need to be able to see other gases in the atmosphere and put the gas in question in contacts with what else is there For even doing that will be, it will still be hard. You'll, be very like a friends, a crime scene. You know how do we pick out? What is really life? What is really not made by life saved passwords. You list were the products of life are necessary but insufficient to prove that their life- yes actually- and that is the sort of

was called the dirty secret of the whole field? Is that will never be able to prove it, so it's written in forensic crimes in terms. You should have got to distinguish between blood that was caused by the crime and blood that was just previously existing, so decorative blood. Precisely just blood there's someone I put that which is naturally dynamic in the wall of the normal blood that with that exists in the room, but I'm sure seat. Syria is gonna put that in our view, in her next research paper ranges sudden equation and ass all sciences related projects. Yet and so on. Our earth we have methane produced by life by bacteria in by cows, but we also have met, faint, coming out of MID ocean wrenches? So in a lot of cases it is definitely ambiguous and method is natural gas that we have an hour stoves appreciate worth what's coming out. Your stove is not count

ports? It's come from, another location on earth? We A couple misled in this signal is pursuing squeeze into question: ok, great, will this one, I loved the questions that come from our younger listeners. Questions are often patron. Today is one comes to carry Jenkins an eight year old fan rate. How long I know How long do you think it'll take for us to find other life in the universe, the Alps, There were many, how many more years, what we got here as well. He actually will have. We like to say will have the key. I'm not purposely trying to evade all your questions. Honestly, I would like to say that we will have the capability to find signs of life very soon with the launch of the James Web Space telescope, but whether we find life. That really depends on what's out there of every planet. Has life of life is extremely common life that makes gases so I, if you want a concrete answer, I guess they anywhere between two year and thirty years?

that's ok, so this would be to the life the usable life expectancy of the James Web Space telescope. While I was putting the James when whose nominal life expectancy is five years, maybe ten, I was thinking of future telescopes beyond the James. Well, ok and possibly a missions to the, the icy moons of Jupiter, where there might be life, but beneath the surface, or even life in beneath the surface of Mars. Right at me, Do you not looking for that life? When you got other people, tat people do, and that is well right. Ok, so we might find life, Or definitely, no, there isn't life, as we know it in the life time of his eight year old girl. Well, maybe you're a girl will carry the torch him. All the searches were doing our exhausted, maybe she'll be the one to think of the next new idea money. Maybe your and clever enough, and when he heard a come around to solve all the problems they are reacting,

quit breakin we come back more startle cosmic varies with my friend and colleague. Secrecy hurry. We haven't talked about airspace in a little while, so I'm so happy to do it because you know the square space is one of our favorite supporters of start talk. Radio is the perfect time to turn your cool idea to a new website. How do you do it you do it with square space. You'll find what you need, whether you're showcasing your work blogging or publishing content, whether you're selling products and services announcing upcoming events. It doesn't make a difference. What you're doing online you need to be doing it with square space, buying a domain

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and when you are ready to launch use, the offer code start talk to save ten percent up your purse, purchase of a website or domain that square space. Tat comes last start talk, offer a code, starred talk for ten percent off your purse purchase hey, I'm Royal Percival and I support start talk on patron, bringing the universe down to earth. This is STAR talk with Neil De Grass Thyssen Rebecca darker cause requiring the search for life addition. I got within my co host backers mad. But what do we find? Your protest oh just all all the podcast places larger. Why you need your nearby stores having any of them. He I get going

global. Does your local political supplier and just ass, but probably science. I now find a summer in the back, their actual data files, dreadful, do stand or company. I do all what are you still when when indoor things were exists it right now I talked to zoom recordings and pretend I'm doing stand anchor this draft in the current covered lockdown! That's what it is that that was my day job and hopefully will be again. excellent, excellent, and we have, as my special guess, Sarah Seeger, whose ed astrophysicist planetary, scientist and is searching for the actual planet searching for life and she's our resident expert in this moment to feel these questions that man has solicited from our fan base, and so the patriarch fan base. So what more do you have met? whereas I also by the weight of I should mention that I guess, It isn't a union with a new book out and you ve got a book based on cosmic queries that has a chapter that talks about the search for life. Yes, indeed, this itself

thanks thanks for mentioning exit almost forgot, I probably wouldn't have forgotten by the end, but the visible cosmic queries, because this format so successful, we said we ve got to do more than just put it out there as a pot cast. So there's a book called cosmic queries that takes all the biggest questions, including this one and much of serious research that informs this field is contained in that chapter and so in a celebration of cosmic queries has a thing and the search for life as it as a sub thing of the bigger thing we've got: Sarah Seaver, so Sarah thank you again for being on Startalk and check in it for the summit. Would he have worse? Will I'm gonna do another husband, clearing question from another young patron listener? This comes from Violeta ends,

the electors, mom Izzie electors at twelve and a half year old, astrophysical over here, forming an alibi have when you're young those Hobbs ends at ass? Professor Sega, I want to know firstly, what exactly are Bio signet should gases and, secondly, what I a signature gases would earth give off. That would be detectable by extra terrestrial life. You looking for inhabited pilot planets, like our requests, for what you're saying it is not me to look for a bicycle should gases, because our existence would be pretty obvious because the space junk for whom swell biosensor gas is a signature of life. It's a gas produced by life that can accumulate in an atmosphere of a planet to a level about We can detect with our telescopes. You know I love to imagine. You know that there are intelligent. Aliens on a planet were bidden to nearby STAR and they the kind of space telescopes were building are hoping to build

look at our earth and they would definitely see a very strong biosensor gas and that's oxygen and oxygen fills our atmosphere to twenty percent by volume, but without plants, without photosynthetic back We would have literally virtually no oxygen, so if all the play life and went away in a walked off the earth today, how long would it take for our oxygen supplied? Assorted dropped his Europe and why would a drop at all? Why wouldn't you stated? Well we how so how bacteria that make oxygen. So I'm not sure you know what the division between them and I'll just take away everything this make an offer to take everything away. so now we got twenty percent oxygen. What happens too? Well what happened So it is oxygen, is a highly reactive gas. and it will just react away with other molecules in the atmosphere, with lots of things on a surface and with gases coming out of there it's her volcanoes and oxygen. Just won't be there.

I have a house over how much diabetic what happened like next week. No no wouldn't happen next week is probably wouldn't happen in a year is probably more. Like thousand. The answer to a war? Ok, so weak! So more! We if we kill all the life the doctrine of his life, we can still live out. Our lives with oxygen is suddenly about international suffocate. Probably we could live without our lives. Ok. So what you're saying is, even though this twenty percent, Has been stable over the his mostly stable, it's not act, surely a stagnant number, because we are constantly producing it and constantly removing it, and it just happens to be balanced at this number that a fair lady, that's a fair way to say: ok, ok, I met you may know what right does this concern? runs the tough warm word. I hope I'm pronouncing that even close to correctly.

What we did is granted the woodchuck does with names truck camper knows what does your most optimistic explanation of the Fermi Pardon like the oh yeah, I think we all have our favorite answer to that one. They tell me what it is. First, the Fermi paradox is the idea that if, if there is intelligent life, that can harness energy and getting spacecraft and journey beyond their planet that they should have colonise the entire galaxy. By now he was once they can get to one planet and call my sad. They can just keep going, and so the Fermi paradoxes summed up by the question. Why. There are they, so what you say is in the lifetime of the galaxy. It doesnt really take that much time if your intelligent by our measures to build spacecraft and start travelling to planet. Even if you can't trust but the speed of light right right that over time you and eventually reach planets and and colony, Ok, so I'd so we're ok. So there is the isolation

think as the real one and then there's the one that I hope is the real one, but were highly mass. Let them occur through she'll, be there already here, That's it that's! The point is, sir, but nor do we always talk about the scene The answer is that it just takes too much energy like we, ass, humans. We know now what it takes to get in a spacecraft and go somewhere. That's a lot of resources. So perhaps there just not not doing that. There's another answer that, the intelligent civilization well, unfortunately, and inevitably self destruct they'll destroy their planet. They'll kill each other, though they won't ever reach the definition of not be intelligence, My equation that I love is. I shall put it to you this way.

Imagine an ant an ant colony in your house in which you might have, or your apartment and the ants they appear kind of you know but there's some clever right because they have a society and you see them doing like a reconnaissance. my just to be clear about just make a roman same paid by you mean like one of those and habitat module thing. will you can cite just mean you can be a hot damn. It could be that an only habitat or can just be. The ants like in your house like Michael Howard, S, health risk and you ve never had this, but you'll see like a few of them kind of looking around and they might come across like a piece of cat food under counter or something, and then shortly thereafter, you have a huge dream of them and are all coming to get this cat food and like a little river. Well, you unless the mob, if you like, wipe away their trail for a moment, a kind of get lost, but I want you to imagine you o Neill Matt having to come precision with those assets. I tell them about the unit,

tell them about the Hubble space telescope in the vastness of of the number of stars, and galaxies and turning around rescue Javert S. Yes, yes, so What I loved you imagine is that these two, these intelligent aliens out there that we are like the ants like why and how would they they contact US workers from us there is, but us out now first were insignificant. Now we're just plain stupid, I think it is worth pointing out that there are different like sorrows lunacy. There are very different types of intelligence of your I've been to university. You ve spent a lot more time in agony India that we will met people who were incredibly smarten, specific ways and otherwise eighty Ok, so you know my name: maybe they have the ability to travel across galaxies, but they're, not the ability to not shoot themselves within a very short and other times will be listening to us. The official answer to refer me paradox: we're are they they

we're idiots self either they think were Indians are we think they are for having self destructive before they could get here overdue? To share right to make gimme some more subtle. all along the lines of interacting with civilizations, Eric Gross asks lesson. We discover proof. Life, not in our own solar system, but on some distance celestial body with any meaningful scientific value of the discovery or opportunity tricks, and upon the knowledge. It may, of course, have brought the cycle in motion in attacks, but would size practitioners, have any real hope of gaining more information about life forms that are at a minimum of four point. Three light years worth I love that question man who asked that was Eric crows paragraphs, ok, you're! So sir. I love that question because Jenny when we think of scientific discoveries are advances. We think ok in five years, ten years engineers will get a hold of it and they'll make some new device as you will all be living better and differently, so life somewhere else. If you can't,

actually have a conversation with even this intelligent. Are you getting secrets from me? What, if you can't or can you are we missing something here? it's such a great question. I mean we are so wrapped up in the emotion and the excitement of the journey of exploration and have been the first. You can try to find out, what's what's out there, so in practical sense. Not really I mean we're. Not we're not doing this to find anything practical that said, would The amazing, if there is life, intelligent life, the nearest star system for light years away. We could have a very slow converts heard slipper. We could imagine not nobody reported over right click, send them a message engine, four years later, you'll get their message. Could extremist ideas about technology? So if we wanted to be practical, like that's, probably the most practical avenue so futures of bio, Reggie unless we learned from them through these radio signals what their soda biochemistry is like we wouldn't

get to compare dna or if they have dna at all, you wouldn't be able do any sort of in situ kind of comparing. Seems to advance biology your life, I would guess, is that correct right now, that's cracked, that's correct yeah, but I do want to sound like who was that philosopher hundred fifty years ago, who set the stars. you just lights on the sky and and we can know, you know how brightly aren't location, but we will never know what they are made of right and think about this like we're just here now! Imagine a thousand years from now. You know ten thousand years from now we may have a way to get to this. Imagine if there's life on intelligent life on our planet and we do like a sample return. We fly something by they send something up we grab at me. You know gravitational slingshot around their star. We come back, ok,

so so alright I'll just think a thousand years ago, rather than next week. No, what you just said, those that answer sideways quaint neatly into this question, which I like and it I'm gonna, combined to different questions from, but Tom said to us. What forms of communication are most likely to be up to cross between the stars and trumpet one who says Don't you think we will overcome the language barrier if we ever meet another sentient life, for I love it and Sarah the rumour that movie, arrival rival. So I got him in trouble. four- and I knew I was gonna- get in trouble for saying this. I said in the movie arrival they brought a physicist. And a linguist to try to communicate with the alien, they should have brought in Exobiologist and cryptography her, and I guess

Oh my shit from the linguists at one time to appear at a movie there. I am just disan them, but what is opinion about how we would actually communicate. I mean I love that movie. I loved the concept that it may be so difficult that we may we may not find a way to communicate, ochres first Matthew. Just what then another roll out will you knew she'd jail? Doesn't like any my anti fascists. We don't know how big ruddier, but, but but mathematics about symbolic GI about I mean like all those answers hey with them or not. I like it, I like it. It would have to be something that is fundamental in a very mathematical away. I agree with that, because Mass apparently applies across the universe of they discover something that is cosmic universal have to be the cosmic universal things we discovered as well. I presume right, so I wonder

So I think one of our greatest trimesters, the periodic table of elements. If we can show that to them, and see if they have a version of it could it be a lot of Pantomimic initially, I would guess together for anybody actually communicated I'm. So it is funny that aliens often spoke English. You know in the movies right right. That's why the arrival of so great that for the first time they have these beings that have no way to really really interact with us. So MAC can be one more question before you wrap up this middle certain I will do for the people are watching the video rather than just the audio. I apologize for the other life form that keeps walking across my lab, while we're trying to reconnoitre. I have no way of communicating with him law so Animals are gonna, combine these two questions because they therein similar things so Rob Carter asked when searching for life on other planets. Is there a priority of what type of

If you look for, for example, would a land based life form take precedence over an aquatic species and so forth, and then Johnny an all brown asks. Carbon based life on it. Developed in the oceans and diversified exponentially from there into land beyond life on others. May develop from a different elemental base and begin a land or another environments. Could eighty life be too alien first to recognise as life and what is the baseline, who gets there? after this break his see what I do there so does a brilliant amazing questions that are the following day. So much science fiction storytelling, but Sarah, you have the commercial break. to figure out what the answer before you, Sweden, this one under the rug. Ok, when STAR talk cousin, with things go,

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active on social media to have a twitter account? Yes, I do it's our Prof, Sarah singer, The Earl of fresh seriously as a g are excellent, so we can follow you there. And I assume you talk about fun stuff, like any research in an end like yes, yulka and Facebook as well. You can. search for my name. Sarah Seeger on Facebook is vulgar, excellent cement he left off with a brain pair of questions Tell me the two names who asked it again. Yes, that was robbed cards, Jonathan all Brown, and they were both asking about the types of life forms that you might find on other planets were lost. Based Aquatic Zone and whether we will be able to recognise those things as life. It must they be they saw during the last year. Yes, well, we won't have a chance to see that life will only see what like does will see, that by private so that life, because the task of our good enough yet right right will only see the

planet far away. We want even see it. In some cases it will be a pale blue dot or would just see its atmosphere as backlit by scientists. We won't see the answer, the forerunners when you study the chemistry, the atmosphere, it's a remarkable feat of observational astrophysics, because the light from the star behind it passes through the transparent atmosphere and then the molecules leave the fingerprint and that's what you're study right. That's the way were studying excellent the atmosphere. We are a long way off from you watch you something wave to you in the in the telescope lands. We are back You know, funnily enough, what does you gotta get? Answers can be as good as they doesn't stop us from speculating about what life me might be like. I want you to just imagine for a moment, because there are excellent, are so diverse, their different masses and sizes then we're imagining their atmospheres are all different. Imagine a planet where the atmosphere so massive and heavy, but it's a similar density, the why

So imagine you have a water ocean and above that is a heavy, dense atmosphere. You can imagine things like flying fish at the can just move. Queen the atmosphere and the water, because it's the same seemed density, ok, we vote will we love to imagine a planet that is somewhat dark because of the massive atmosphere. and we like to imagine this idea of birds with giant wings that are photosynthetic at the wings are like giant plant leaves they can fly up to where there is sunlight and gain energy from the sun that way, Sir, that reminds me some sufficient writer. Forgive me for not remembering there was a punch line in its way. ere, the aliens come to the earth. They see what we all do here than they return to their home planet and they report on what they discovered and they said, You're all made of meat and because we basically eat each other right life iii. The life unless you're plant, in which case you somewhere

Well, so we just think about it. So if you are a bird that has photos, synthetic wings, then to eat you, like you just said you just go to the altitude, will you get the sunlight and come back down out killing anything for your survival? You would presumably be free fall. Whatever is in the lower levels, because they on accessing their sunlight view. You'd want to make sure there photosynthetic, but hey World were that's the case and they come visit us and we have only slaughterhouses and not just us. Other animals eat other animals, and this would look like a rat Billy Bloody nasty place to them have you guys ever think about that That sounds very near. Ok, so tell me you and also about the carbon based life, how important the egg is. I bought some counteract. She asked specifically what we're doing that he SAM asked. Is it pulls?

to have life elsewhere. That has no carbon based and if so, what would that looked like compared to common base life and will be the requirements about life to survive? And they really are, been a lot of solid work done in that area. It's it's really hard to construct. You know a biochemist we have like a completely different type of life out there, we're not sure silicon based life is even really possible. We Think silicon. You know a lot of our silicon here on earth, for example its locked away in two rocks and and there's just not one of silicon. We think Silicon TK, pounds are often they dissolve in water too, easily fighting the Jew are you still out on that one Ok, so, even though certain makes the same families of molecules as carbon does, because they ve the top and bottom to each other on the periodic table says we learned in high school chemistry

They had all make the same kinds of modules, but using the the other properties of silicon molecules make them wholly different from what carbon is giving us so also less. So our search for life is justifiably carbon based, not to put words in your mouth, but this kind of witches. yeah, you said it well, that's right! Ochre manages to sweep any better than I think that Russia is fully lifted and maybe most elements arose so maybe I pay this one. This was pitting host against guest. Here just me asks: Doktor Thyssen has spoken in past, start up capital about the idea of Goldilocks zones being antiquated a best, and possibly the wrong approach to searching for life? Was his procedures, opinion on the use and definition of Goldilocks zones as it applies to walk, galactic locations prioritized in searching the fast Business well. Actually this is one where kneel and I agree actually so just to go into

Some detail. The habitable zone is a good construct. The Goldilocks on it helps us Think of where we should be looking for planets, but in Rio I think it really depends on the individual planet like her? are you to imagine a planet that instead of having an atmosphere like ours. That is mostly nitrogen and it has a good amount of oxygen. Imagine a planet that has a hydrogen atmosphere dominated by hydrogen do you know, hydrogen is a nasty potent greenhouse gas way worse than any of the gases we have on our planet earth. So please with hydrogen. It turns out, it can still be the right temperature far outside to what we think of as this traditional goldilocks on it's that has such a powerful greenhouse. They wouldn't call it nasty. They would be thankful for it, need it or their family rights fight right so I like to think of habitability concept has been. You know: planet Independent, not your location, the galaxy or location in your own planetary system like dependent on the properties of the planet,

so that's an enlightened, modern view of the concept of a zone. So this It is not a is a virtual zone in that sense, because it can take its beat in places that are not just in the a narrow minded swamp, that's around. The sun, so they had I've thought about these other kinds of Goldilocks zones or referencing, so so yeah so so and for we know even the definitions we ve come up with now. Twenty thirty years from now. Harry Violeta, the eager old, the twelve year old listening to this their day they might look back at our definition. Brow definition of a Golly boxes, and what are they now because they have put forward a dick? like life inside of volcanoes or something I mean who knows right right and we haven't observed any rocky Exo Planet atmospheres, yet we just beginning so right. Road occur very good so? What I want to do now is go into a semi.

Opening round and soap. Sarah pretending on the evening news and the whole interviews gonna last just a couple of minutes, and so with so did. This is your sound bite Quiz China. Can you give us a cell, but you were very good in this programme adopted so far sites. I think you'll come out with flying colours That is the only question on railways in ITALY. I ask you, questions left. If that's ok, I think I know the answer to this one. But Andrew Andrew asked. My question is about the pro quality of life in the universe, finding each other. If we think of the universe is infinite and the access of time as infinite does. It stands to reason- the probability of life in different areas of the universe find each other on both access time and space approaches zero. My guess is no, but I want to have scientists we, I didn't totally get that the last part of that so he's seen if everything's the net life should find each other. So why should we find each other? I think? Oh, I think the question is if we are dealing with.

infinite universe and a finite amount of life, would that not protect be so far apart from each other that it couldn't find it each other. He hadn't he added another dimension. It lets say Life is there and we are here and we go there. When we find him ok, if space is infinite that reduces the likelihood that they're just gonna be there. There can be a problem We must farther away from us as the first access on this. The other axis is. Maybe the life is there now, but they're, not gonna, be there in a hundred years. So you have. Two intersect, not only in time but in place, and if both the time, access in place access are infinite. what hope do we have ever making contact. I think I got his question. I think you got it. I think that is yes. Yes, yes, It really depends on how common life is. If life is rare, then yes, that question is an answer is valid, but

We all want to believe that we will receive, but we see the ingredients I've everywhere, and so we have every reason to hope that on each rocky planet that's the right temperature that there's a chance for life there, in which case life is yeah, ok, em, but but in terms of power far we ve actually searched by free reference. There is then, in an analogy given by a chill tartar of the city Institute I did so good I've, given this a hundred times since then- and I we got her say it on start talks, we we have it HANS dinner. I know you're using our aircars. It's you can ask how much of the euro! have we searched before we start saying: there's no life here and if you look at all the parameters space time space, frequency band with right. You could be try to say hi, one frequency and the trust they had another frequency and a ship's passing in the night, and you boss conclude

but that there is no sign of intelligent life. So she said it's like going up to the ocean scooping a cup tea cup filling it with ocean? We're looking at it and say There are no whales in English, so in terms of how much wow you that of space time, frequency searchable, and so there was depressing but fascinating at the same time, for me right right, but at the same time now Gonna turn the tables and do the opposite of trashing over the comments like if your scooping about one glass of water. Surely there is some kind of life in there my worry thinking that we can look at the nearest stars in the nearest planets and that the ingredients for life are everywhere. and that they should come together, often enough that we have a chance of finding signs of life, excellent, excellent service. Like tat

a scoop of anywhere soil on earth is gonna, be life in it, no matter what night or any air pamparsan even air for anyone manuscripts slip in a couple more questions. right, John David Newman says it possible that the galaxies we observe relatively easily less likely to have life than the dwarf galaxies wandering stars in deep space, which are more difficult to see, could wondering stars or dwarf galaxies in deep space, be less threatening to life. While the moment were only able to observe the very near a stars, we can't see other galaxies so that questions out of our out of our purview. At the moment, however, each sorrows fairly isolated and each sorrow- its own planetary system, as far as we can tell so it shouldn't matter which Galaxy Planet ASEAN in relation to other life is there and we see the same kinds of stars and most galaxies- are there differences, of course, but that repeats enough? I so I agree with you and weak weak would be perfectly happy, search and stars our own galaxy without

when you go to others to just to wonder if it's different, I bought it at another point in place, there? Is there? Some galaxies that have very rocking active nuclei with very deadly radiation coming out, and it could be that some galaxies are hostile to the formation of complex molecules and more peaceful galaxies. Like the Dwarf Galaxy. that they may be more hospital, and we don't really know this yet I agree. Sarah, with this digital, much more searching to go before we start Creta galactic Model for what life with bitter should be like, Let's get one more question: man Well, I've got to combine these two, then I'll. I'm I'm really and combining kick today brokered he's a both quite philosophical jet Thomas asked. We ass a species love to stimulate our senses by watching movies, listen to music, telling stories and more assuming an alien civilization, is interested in leisure. Do we hypothesize what a stimulus of different senses would look like outside of off many a five. I look for evidence of such things and then Chris Hampton says what,

but you think me discovery of alien life would have on society. Would borders eventually dissipate answer? identification. Move from russian American Et Cetera to Earthling. Hello would the initial pandemonium loss so music society culture and how did everything changed in one's own work, and I think I was going to ask me for that. We need to take a lead in seeking. I think we should take a crack and trigger quick cracker. It is interesting when you find something, that's more other, then you are from each from among yourselves. It does act as a kind of binding force. And sometimes for the good, sometimes not, but I had hoped that we would have had this kind of binding force in the face of battling Ovid covert was like an alien that it doesn't care. What's yours color is your gender or gender expression? It doesn't care, it'll infect you, and that would be a good place,

the band together and fight it, and we failed that test so I wish I had more confidence than they currently do and how we would react collectively as a species to an alien, be they friendly or hostile, and the other question was what it was about. What kind of version of stories in art and music, and all here I just civilization, haven't how would it different from ours Sarah direct when it suits you guys think much about this sense. Is there any and might have now I mean is. That is something that you could look for: a look for evidence of all ways that they could have changed our environment to accommodate the different ways that they said they interact with each other. No indeed I mean, if you think about it for a moment, our oxygen on earth, life on earth, bacteria Anna bacteria you billions of years ago,

but they re engineer in our atmosphere. It completely changed our atmosphere, so was unrecognizable, so we can see giant things like that, but small things like that animal zoo or that aliens would do. Those are out of our a possibility for now jabbered review being for extra it scientists they are, but now many astute Sarah Seeger, the human being, who watches scientific in movies. Why Can you imagine what if an alien had another sense, what might be- and that's a tough one- I don't have an answer for that I don't. I can take any ask whenever the grid sometimes I do like to think about our own planet, earth and all the intelligent life here you know like the dolphins and octopus and there's a lot of creatures here, that we need to rethink our highly intelligent. so I do like to think about how they interact with each other, what science they give each other, but my favoured me or Africa.

We're gonna end up, and I was there to dolphins swimming together and then looking up at to humans talking to each other looking out of the water? They see them and went off and says to the other? if faced each other and make sounds, but is not clear that are actually communicate dolphin brains, bigger than ours? Sarah, it has been delayed. Have you on, and we neglected even mention that you were co author on the recent discovery of fostering a molecule on the upper atmosphere. Venus a possible product of life. I know that that result is still getting contested, but it's fun to watch science at its best when ideas, Fourth and people try to explain it in multiple ways. So just good luck on that is great to see you in that and in Europe in Europe a part memoir this most lights in the universe? It is a delight to see that in too

The first hand account not only of your life but the birth of an entire cottage industry in our beloved field of astrophysics, the search for excellence in the search for life itself, so greater have you on and good luck. The thinking of thanks for having me right, a man always good to Harry my eyes, a pleasure things are highly and for you, and probably science yes plays a guy. IRAN and also your book as well, namely, better combat another. Also. Another another point: four cosmic worries: if you like this format and if you're listening, you probably Ducas as one of our most popular we just put it all in my book has got the deepest question: what is life and what is the universe, Meda and haven't? Had it begin Howard and are there multi, verses and so were very proud of that book. As a start talk community because it a lot of it has been inspired by shows like this, where you right in and ask your deepest questions inspired us to put the book out there and is a product of the star talk family? This has been started

cosmic queries, I'm near the grass Thyssen, your personal astrophysicist, as always, keep looking