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Extended Classic – Let’s Make America Smart Again: The Future of NASA

2018-11-30 | 🔗

Re-visit our Let’s Make America Smart Again series as Neil deGrasse Tyson, comic co-host Chuck Nice, and Ellen Stofan look at the past, present, and future of NASA. Now extended with Neil and Chuck chatting with former HI-SEAS IV crew member Dr. Sheyna Gifford on interstellar space travel.

NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/extended-classic-lets-make-america-smart-again-the-future-of-nasa/

Image Credit: NASA.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial, free, welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide knocked off begin right now, three star talk at your house near the rest ice in your personal astrophysicist, and we are right now recordings episode of start out from the measurable headquarters right here in New York City and in this later, instalment of our new. So the sub series of STAR Talk called: let's make America smart again we had my columns today, jug nice right dude, I might have you Do you also host a spin off of stock, which I'm so
getting into playing with cited Simon Science right? Dear Mamma, you play with compliance now it's a sports science mash up somewhere. We interview with that sports. Guess Oliver on flagship start had a whole followings unto themselves, Sir Richard that splendid often now was I mean you don't give me any sport athletes, and now it just means that it means that when we have athletes, you'll come on. Let's go, let's go he's gettin up again start. So when you went out- and we also have science and sport scientist sport and then for everything we also have start up. All access does come where we have it. Of original content like something that you and I did- which, by the way
a concern that I thought I was good and by the way the thing we did its cod. Have you touch my media right. You love your office. Ok I'll, send you to clearly denying it I didn't have denied the commission did not here. I would do you ever see that could put you gotta put it on twitter. If I send it to you, it's me is wearing your office we're having a conversation, and so this is so funny in the middle. The conversation you wait, a minute, have you two my meeting I said yes and I went, and then I would like to hear what I would like yeah. That's that's your do stash homey rights and would actually it was very cool enough. Not everybody ought to so for this addition of, let's make America smart again. When we talk the future NASA,
and so we ve an expert on data. I move off about NASA, but very few experts on this. We ve got one with us in stone, now see here, global chief scientist at NASA, that's now like a bad ass, everything's hearts in the chief but aware lock around all the time, just high. Yes, double latte chief scientists, That's right on right when I say well well, who is this for our chief scientists NASA so your beer backers as a planetary geologists, that's cracked, very cool thanks for others? How happy to hear this? So we with this cosmic queries version.
Let's make America's martyred an absolute ban, so we're gonna just take questions. Would even priests elicited from our fan base and social media typically and is a question about NASA and where its common weird go into it, just to be clear, you no longer the chief. The latest you ve, left their post and that's how to step down in December at the end of the administration, and so now I'm trying to figure out what to do next. Name goes unmentioned right. The administration was what was your academic posts before at Essen before that? for a small group of people. A company called prompts me research and I did research on Venus. I'm a member of the Cassini rate, our research on earth, about these. So little hot? I studied volcano out into what I say. Ok knows on Venus Mars earth and one of them, of Saturn called tighten nice evoke emerge. That is correct,
Are you fucking mind say line starch Pompey guy? It's almost is gonna chief scientists, but not quite so just to suit. The audience another certain positions at NASA that are appointed and that they rotate so there you're, not a career civil servant and that post that's right, the cheap. Politics, and the chief scientist usually come in for two to three years. Advise the NASA administrator on policy across the agency does ensures the hearts of the administrators appointed by the president, and how does it sound merely is cool is two subjects for sure like what are you doing on the administrator of NASA and you are the two scientists Let's talk accept Charlie baldness, the coolest person around he. He could get it. With that without non start, yet great great deployed the whole telescopes. That's right
Have you been israeli vest stories? I think that is politically. So so I presume you thought about the past present and future of NASA. Would you date, NASA's on track in all the way NASA wants to be on track now, since on trying to another way, we all have ideas about what NASA should be doing is NASA doing it. I think, but there is always a copy out there, because, because NASA is part of the executive branch, it gets its. From the president, but then Congress ultimately decides on ass this budget, and so there's always this tension between what is the President one. What does Congress want and that bear any to towards? the really important to NASA, which is moving humans out beyond earth. Exploring this
exploring the solar system, the sun, the universe and not to mention while others. Thing this planet, which is the most important planet to all of us. So how are those resources Span Howard divided up, and that's attention sometimes it's contention, but the sounds like generally, Well, no, I think it is. It is in general, good tension because, obviously, if you look back over the history of NASA at the time of APOLLO, NASA was about four percent of the federal budget right now houses about zero point, four percent of the federal budget, and so that means you have to have to make choices. We now still wants to invest in there or not, as the commitment of the kind let me see it from you know, and so to someone like me, I would say: let's go wild and make NASA zero point. Six percent of the federal budget in that would be a huge amount of money, just preserved a huge amount of money for NASA, but really not that still that much of the federal budget,
and to me now, since doing a lot of amazing things and those things actually benefit us every day, which is what the public, razor from point for, like this one percent really does want to go to a penny and we'll get you gotta go we'd have humans on Mars very quickly. If that were the case, we do the backstroke. Take That's right! That's right, like guys, like everyone except the snow, we'd, be finding life around the solar system, we'd be exploring planets around other stars, we'd, be making huge advances and end again people who say it all, it's a waste money, those when you push for technology, you benefit our economy. You have spin offs that affect our lives and amazing, wise solar. We address we're just gonna work since we have, I think methane. You know you're right. They add that order so that they can smell. So youth originally thought. It is because, because I d,
I thought I was noted. It is contributing to global warming. Smelt dealt so I think it's it's hydrogen sulfide as the rotten eggs, exactly mixed in with the missing right that, with. Expect nothing less from consumers more, but not that you get viruses you what I'm doing backstroke on the methane lakes of tight right, because this mouth, that's all just let you re having dinner, but they just doesn't work as a joke. When I say in the odorless better hydrogen sulfide does work and spend ninety two degrees Calvin on tightening, so it be called swim for you. But my real question is: is there anything else swimming in those seas? Besides, you
he's right? Well, we'll be once I get out of the water is there can be no question of our EU? Isn't it up into it and as we always do, we start with our patriarch patrons questions because they support as financially since a whole pay go to pay them website. I guess that's where you can There was a woman mysterious to me for a long time greater because I thought this is another thing we're just asking for money, but you actually, around certain kickbacks, not the kickbacks at every level, absolutely actually by access you're buying access to the programme. Just like you know, like Prince if you were a russian business man- and you wanted to know them into the analysis interpreted so I guess there's two ways to support to show financially, if you, if you're so inclined one is patriotic and the other a star,
not all access dot com. Where are we I have will create all kinds of exclusive original content was everything that we do and the money goes back in what we do so what wage rises? We we use a too the innovative things that otherwise be justified by the business model. At that time, absolute so we can grow Horton Branch and that's what it's just, what we're doing, what we're doing it at its working use? Put it so much better than I gotta remember what you just said, their credit that that's what it is Anyway. Here's a pledge of questions from Chris right. You Chris, was to go this hey. Let's fast forward a decade or even of and imagine a permanent Mars colony assume that Massa was worse. The what changes do you Think there would be to the wall of NASA globally. Would it let's take on a more worldwide role. Would come. Maybe why? Sir
and that's Chris from the Atomic Club already Adam Club, in statements Newton, United Kingdom rule First of all, I think, before we actually have a colony on Mars, it's gonna be a little bit more than a decade or too, because that those first journeys to Mars with humans, which will probably be in the early twenty thirty four, an orbital mission, hopefully down to the surface soon after that to really naturally made other visions of the mission that first goes into orbit is not going to be the one that I dont think it'll be the one that lands, because that entering descent landing on Mars with humans and several is so hard because the Mars atmosphere is is so thin, so we're hoping to get humans down on the surface by the mid, the late twenty thirties to really people there for sustained long periods of time. I I think, we're, maybe three or four decades away from that foot. But it's already going to be a world wide effort. I don't know
call it wiser, but you know already NASA's actually working there. Sixteen space agencies that are working on this have we send humans beyond lower or measures are different countries yeah. So you know the typical ones. People have heard of May the European Space Agency that Russian Space Agency, the japanese space agency, but we ve, got space agencies from South Korea emergence its agencies from Africa. Whore Perkins uniting India, so it already is global offer. Not only that, I don't think it's just gonna, be a government offered, it's gonna, be public private partnerships, and we Did he see things like Spacex with Red Dragon sort of moving forward, though not clear? What's things time line on red dragon is right now, but I think it's gonna take kind of everybody participating to actually make it happen. So are you saying that, therefore, colony will not be NASA Contacts monies the collaboration the way this question investing and they will be
liberation, but I think there will be. I hope America continues to Lee. We ve always lead, but that doesn't mean we can't have partner and so I hope we continually. I hope there a? U S bays on Mars eventually, and I think a lot of people do envision a sort of like an arnica where there is a: U S base a british base, but I'm actually hoping we all live together internationally, like we do up on the international space station that sort of the corner- I know I'm hopefully hopelessly out of the many doubts hurry we're making there also. I would have a different, something you just said. You said we ve always lead I think we only really lead, after maybe be nineteen sixty I'll, get point and about the citizens were not. There were the first sat there, the first.
On human animal. They had the first like like a like that. The first human they had the first. Women need, the first black person a Cuban, they had the first space station. They had so. Findings landings on Venus, the that they actually have the first photo Earth rise on the moon, which was released till after our photos was so So we were reactive to so much of what Russia there, Are we leaving me to wonder that if Russia never went there we would have ever had a space programme in the first place. I I think we may have eventually, but it would have come much slower and so there's an interesting parallel going on without right. Now, as you see the rise of the Chinese Space Programme lock on in China right now, they're getting ready to put their legislation?
So that's what it takes to Mars, which gets back, reflects back to your first question about is now on the right track were on the right track to get human Mars that whole plan I talked about, but it could easily go off the rails and so, in my mind maybe it takes. A little incentive by competing with foreign nations to keep us onto a train wrestling with research and rockets. Michael was right about away with trade marks on their rights, but also our aid. It would go along the same lines. This is I came from Facebook, so Do you think Massa will lose significant funding in the near future? Says we're talking about. These grandiose plans, especially with competition and if so, what will NASA what research will be halted? First,
and I would like to add to that and what are we doing in terms of public private partnerships, because, if we're losing funded are we are we supplementing in some way, or is it when we pull funding away? That's the end of it. We have to shut down your NASA hasn't been losing funding. Actually, over last several years, our budget has gone up over the president's request and up its barely keeping pace with inflation, but it is going up. Another lots of other parts of the federal budget are going down and that's because now still continues to have huge by partisan support. Income so ten centres, half of what Blue stay till they have read states do not the way to doing this, the south, so it continues to have a lot of support. What went again now the subtleties are, for example, I testified in February before our congressional hearing on on the future of NASA
and there was a lot of talk by some members about. Do we need to refocus NASA's budget? Do we need to focus NASA on what it should be doing? That's a bit of for. Why is now doing earth science and that's when I start to get worried? So it's not only the absolute number, it's. How is that monies spread around to mere NASA's or science budget is an extremely important part. If we don't measure what's going on this planet, we're not can understand, because, after all, it is a planet, yeah education. Didn't know that one one more before we go to break. Ok, all right! Ok, let's make! This very was make this interesting tat. Thompson would like to know this: could NASA be the precursor to something like the STAR Trek Federation, This really kind of cool made now use. You spoke that outcome briefly, but
Is there a concerted effort to bring these agencies together globally There is there a second there's something called the global exploration roadmap. You can google it all. The space agency's, the heads of all the international space agencies get together several times a year and meet and say what are we doing? How can we work together? How can we eat our everybody's got limited resources, so it's better to work together and so now. If you look at the space station, people have suggested that we should be nominated for peace prize. You know it's literally higher ground where we can get along and tell me if we can keep space in that round. The better off we're gonna, be the speculation, is the greatest collaboration, outside of waging a war over That is so. This isn't it scourging, since it's it's, it's huh, in one respect that we can get together and do others. So there's no one, there's the rocker, ok, the space station. If you look at the budget the drives these two species
the greater budget and greater to total investment and The only other time nations get together by TAT is to kill one another. Here we are Do you know that human beings you suck this? Is this difference? This is why we should fear, because when it too consciousness it'll, be cleared it that we do have no right to be alive at all, either be its first task. There is something I have no intelligence at all and I still agree with that would go with the segments where we combat more of our car ferries addition. Let's make America smart, have guns secret for you
I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell there's just one. And where to get out of hearing there go to patriarch arms last star, talk and support. Where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen the star talk ad free, You can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never we're here another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me sing if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying Would that start talk? We talk about the future of NASA addition, let's make America smart again hosting. Rest ice and I've got my coast
nice hey reading. Her took my comic. Thank you, sir. Yes, I've got with us since retirement. Future of mass and we got somebody who just been Workin for NASA the lasts. For years in the capacity of scientists. I got down stole from your own pay so you're not sure Taiwan's daughter, not my first time but was happy to be here irksome person. We love this so check. You been soliciting queries. Yes, I have all over the internet and about the future of NASA some at sea and in this again limit. Our goal is to imagine a smarter America going forward so that what we have here are I saw atta hisses coming to us from Facebook, would like to note this. What is the main difference between NASA and space acts in terms of what they would like to achieve in space exploration, in the near and far future, and let me add to that. What is the chief purpose?
that's it or what is NASA's mission statement Well, I should be able to quote National NASA's mission statement from memory, but I- but I can't, but it's basically to understand our world Army soldiers Some are universe to use technology to move humans beyond earth that That is really, if you want to sum it up. That's now, since mission exploration, knowledge so space, is a contractor to NASA now has lots of of industry partners. Spacex X is one of them. They launch cargo up to the international space station starting next year, though, launch crew up to the international space from Florida, so. There is one of many contractors now. Obviously, space access off obviously stated that they want to see humans on Mars, NASA. Wants to see humans on Mars, so our goals are actually really aligned and we have a partnership with space x to help them land, one of their dragging capsules on Mars
Ah and I'm excited because they ve done a lot of work on entering descent landing that hopefully make it possible for us to and human sooner. You said earlier that I want to challenges that Mars has a thin atmosphere. Could he did Why that's more of a challenge to, EL and then on earth, atmospheres much denser. So if people haven't you There is a great video that J p I'll put together before the curiosity and, moreover, the before the curiosity, Rover, land and called seven minutes and terror and base take seven minutes when you're coming in from trajectory from earth to get from the top of the atmosphere to the purpose. You have to slow yourself way way way way down good speed to get their yeah. I got it. That speed somehow yeah and enter absorbed that speed coming. The atmosphere is not helping you very much, but its heating you up, which is bad, so you ve got to find some way to slow yourself down so Curiosity weighed one matter tongue and we used a cow
a nation on earth unless it that's the manner in which it emerged that the cells and killed room year, so we used he'd shield parachutes. This bizarre thing called the sky crane to landed on the surface. We estimate for whom humans, you're gonna need twenty to forty metric tons landed on the surface and the more you can bunch set in the single landings, the cheaper? It is so there is theirs issues with that. So how are you gonna, slow yourself coming down even after use, something called supersonic? Retro propulsion, which sickly, will exert dogs and preserve firing retro rockets, while you're going it supersonic speeds which causes Vulcan turbulence, everything your shoot, not the back comes back at your spacecraft, it supersonic speed. So it's crazy thing. Space, excess action, but working on it, What myself? So, if you'd moving supersonic early and you try to retro exhaust in front of you, you
exactly that's so here you want so it's complicated to save it Suddenly they demonstrate your hands so in its, but it's an insurmountable, oh, my gosh we can ever send humans to Mars is too hard, and it frustrates me sometimes I'll, see. Commentary of saying we just need to stick at the moon. Mars is too hard. Mars is not too hard. We can figure it out. Engineer would froth. It amounts to have the opportunity in this problem exactly and again when you solve tough problems like that you're you're stretching technology years stretching computational skills, the carpenter, your patterns, you're you're, spending off stuff in the army economy right here on earth I haven't got. This is Jeff sauce threats and Jeff shop. You have wizard my name to back them up
I'd like to clear the sauce like spaghetti into rats like the syndrome, sauce threats. Thank you. Thank you. Jeffrey procure fanatically clarifying here- is what he wants to know. What is the average age and education of a NASA employee? Is the demographic getting younger or older over the years? So are we attracting people to NASA by the way we all saw the video of the launch in return of the first stage in the Spacex rocket, and you see mission control for, Spacex, there's nobody air. Over thirty years on a slightly forty in the corn. Looking around like this everyone else with Japan and an hour they if the thirty five so that that skews young, it looks to me it s.
Young and if you look at our analysis centres which can we have nine NASA sonorous Balsara are federally funded research and Development Centre that Japan laboratory makers, ten mexican treatments, that decision in the loop have struggled lines eyes. I almost all sign, I get it to roll out, but I need to know more about the I've already see see. The average age is about fifteen. To the six depending on the Santer now part of that is because we have people, who don't want to leave. You know they love what they do, their stop productive. We ve had scientists two are still writing significant papers in their eighty, so that does tender. Hurt you're you're statistics on the other hand, United, almost sixty several just died, sixty one
but the boy and people who don't like two entire, they have these latest molten lava consumption was a big part of American dies of a mere had I walk every how everything and then, when you didn't have here, you had spread. Reality is on. The spam was food is TAT, your emails that you're gonna want. What we also had periods of time where the federal government has higher freezes on and so on and NASA downsized when the shuttle programme ended. So all that's combined to make the federal our federal workforce, and we need more younger people in their whatever hiring freeze. But it applies to NASA to break not exactly
was. The greens is a breakthrough. Every device and acid rain freeze gives you not the brain in prison for his brain blood. Ride with me those those those resources are being allocated, someplace else most likely Wall Street an end, but as in the other thing is there, you really want a mix of ages because in a we ve got people who really know how to land on Mars. In China we have people who know how to keep humans up in space, safes, you need that kind of wisdom and you need the fresh blood coming in gonna carry that forward as a unique culture with fresh blood who is not by by how always didn't do it can be open to a new idea exactly and that that need for innovation and something that we worked on a lot over the last couple years at NASA. How do we ensure that world the most innovative as a fifty fifty year, plus a old agency
you really do worry about. Are you being the most innovative and NASA worries about that interesting the internet, because it was in the same week arms more pointing fifty eight us after you pay a lot. I feel He feels that lack of it whatever your class and ass, the message is the brain, the character from Facebook would like to know this does NASA heavy future solution to the growing space junk? So are you guys working on this necessary? can. I arrived in the restaurant come from space. Junk is because, over the last, fifty plus year was put a lot of stuff up their summit.
Has broken up, so there are actually saw even like all stages of rockets. Pieces of spacecraft there's been an island. There was an occasion. A couple years ago were to spacecraft, ran into each other ominous, created a whole lot pieces of debris, so there's just a lot of stuff up there. With its slowly slowly, the orbits, but we do. Worry about it a couple times a year. They have to move the international space station slightly to avoid space junk other satellites we have to watch when we launched things to say. Is there anything else on the path now spaces big? So this is anything to panic over, but space agencies around the world and private companies are looking at how to evil, literally vacuum, that stuff up and people of I've seen proposal a backup disposition is not particularly nimble now, and it's not that it's not even sort of structurally, I mean
I liked reactivating legal guarantees a mind. That's my arms or like that solar panels in Spain, but pushed over here this like Ben, but you're not gonna to old, so you tell me they. Do avoidance maneuvers, with the space Station, so they don't go. Somebody shoe, or whatever p, The debris was lifted space they do and they even had rare occasions where they realized. There was debris approaching the space station and they haven't had time because, obviously to do a manoeuvre, you have to say if the plan this out, this isn't something you want to be like. Let's move, you know you're talking now, so there have been times where the astronauts have actually retreated into the soil, use capsule and waded out potential debris encounter. Don't you
that's raised, a potential debris encountered. Some crash does nothing for gas, but it's over. I mean the space station. If, if you looked at closely, it's gotten pings and pockmarked all over it from Lille tiny pieces of debris hitting it at some ten thousand miles an hour, and so that creates little problems but So far too many questions look at no priority thousand molinari. That's that's why it's getting all that at some point we will have to de orbit the space station right now it's funded through about twenty four by about twenty eight is thus, for example, the two thousand twenty four thousand twenty four. So by about two thousand twenty eight, a lot of the systems will be degrading, especially the solar panels. What you're, gettin pinged by this micro debris all the time so well, the orbit that does that who puts a new one up there. When do we? Do
no, that's a great question, and so there's this big. What is gonna happen to lower earth orbit after the space station? Is it going to any of you talk to NASA? They would like it to be the commercial, the private sector that moves in private space stations a place for in a private. Space companies, glue, origin, Spacex, orbital, eighty Kate, let's find the private sector going going to lower but, as I imagine in the summer, two thousand and one for those Our Johnson's up their pan am ran the shuttle pen. For those of the younger of our audience right of former airline company? It's it's! The virgin America before America was a virgin, that's right basis. We will watch here if you really, if you really get underneath that now suspend about three billion dollars a year on the international space station, and if we want to send humans Mars, we want to take that three billion dollars and start start building. What will be Mars transfer vehicle what humans will go
when on that journey of Mars, if if they have to keep spending and on the space station, I'm not gonna, be no money to go to beyond lowers Warburton. Can we just haven't got three billion dollars? That's all. That would be a great solution, than we wouldn't have to worry about this, but as it is, there's not enough money to do both right now. There is not so NASA's, The plans for moving humans to Mars count on the space station budget. Declining through the mid twenty twenties and during out and the lights went so now become an ok, I'm sorry, I have to ask this: you were there and this all sound, highly political to me because you're talking about budgetary issues, but isn't there a way to take the billions of dollars that are going in to Lockheed Martin, making a fighter jet that we do not need or tanks that we are building?
at the government that I'm sorry the military has said we do not want them, but yet because it takes jobs programme? We have to make them anyway. Could we find a way to shift this money. Over to NASA, so that I mean it. There there's clearly inherent benefit and discovery and technological advances that will be wrought from going to Mars, as opposed to a tank that we're never gonna use because we're never gonna fight conventional so again. We now have no clue what anybody we're gonna fight is gonna have a nuclear warhead too, so we're not going to do that. So why can't we just find the way politically get the senator congressmen say say, look look will give the the money you just a bill, but every than a bill, overmuch district, twenty one very ready to go there and make America appreciate signs
I can't remember your original there we go there. We got you What is that assets? One well, and I hope that these people want, you know Mass account lobby Congress, that's not actually allowed, so outside supporters can talk to NASA full average ass it s. I even avatars yeah are you kidding me to just to be clear what military does when they TV commercials during superpower is not as that's not technically marketing rhetoric, none of the other. You saw what happened was when I was on one of my commissions, We were approached by a at agency that, on a to create sort of people, service spots for NASA to recruit through? We could
just engineers, in the Spirit of the army, Navy or Fourth Marines recruiting, and that way you can justify commercial time for and do some of the most beautiful commercial I've ever seen urges the the tradition. To do that is just not there and there That is so sad. Am it's. It's almost as if our government has stopped the debt against we should do about it, but if that is so, good? The way it is, but imagine that in a limit where it's out of control All it says, is we taxpayers, elect officials who then stably budgets for agencies, the agency can, then market itself to for more to ask him about, ok, that Greece is absolutely external activity from it? I m so that's wants and why won't feel good? The NASA should be. I will do it in the limit. You don't we want that happened in government does not make sense, because I dont what I do want to act.
Culture departments were the same thing not just NASA. They re not only what NASA. So we are too quick break when we can More cosmic queries in the let's make America smart again. Tradition started back skilful thriller chief scientists. Not this lonely signs that we talk about where we return. Welcome back and start talking your host station. I serve as the directive a hidden platter and tat the american using natural history right here in New York City. Did you didn't otherwise known that, in any case on your personal astrophysicist, we talking with Ellen Stones, former chief scientist
that's a very just former just form like minutes ago practical six months at yesterday's minutes between between cosmic Yesterday I got shut nice. Of course, do cosmic queries Yes, sir, we ve about the future of NASA in this. Let's make America smart again the dishes. Yes, we start oxen I write. So this is how I think I'll sites, ok, I think these people are making these names and seven to screw me. Not everybody can meaning chuck models, the lavish, sets elaborate simpler s job. Anyway, who will get to Mars verse who will get a human to Mars that's that's all they want. Is
has clearly our requested, as here's appears, real question has become like a space rates. Have we the space race again now think we have an end? You know again, I think people like to have a rhetoric around there being a space raise, but but I don't think there is scope for Mars again. Mars is hard. It's not easy is not impossible, but it's hard. So I think when we humans, tomorrow's you're gonna see it you're going to have people from multiple. Agencies you're, going Europe public private partnerships and fall now. You can turn that court. Around for the moon, and that I think, is a valid question, because there's a lot of talk bow? such huge bases on the moon, commercial exploitation of the moon, and whether that happens or not boy, I'm curious about that is. Is it going to be China putting humans on the moon? Is it gonna? Be Russia fine putting humans on the moon is going to be a private company.
And I'm leaning towards a private company doing it, and then there are the here. That's debatable question Mars: it's going to be an international coalition will hopefully not NASA taking the leaf. So does it help to because I thought about a base. Does it help us get to Mars is easier for us to get to Mars from the moon than it is for us to get to Mars from here so? In other words, could could the movie a stage in place to live together playstation place because it, if you think about it, you're going to need a multiple module vehicle to get to Mars, because you want to always have multiple modules in case something goes wrong with one of them all modules you can seal it off and still have a safe place to retreat to so it's going to be. Big that you're going have to assemble on orbit. Why I'll, do that out in orbit around the moon, where you can use a Mars gravity? Asoro, sorry, a lunar gravity assist to get you ready to go to Mars, so staging from lunar orbit makes
this forum on gravitating assist point of view, as well as just here and acts to stage somewhere. Why not? Why not? Do it they're just to be clear, you not targets from surface which requires living in ascending yet again: stained stating, from the lunar surface really doesn't make any sense, because its different technology, the land on the moon, Moon, doesn't have an atmosphere, odds, sorts you'd, have develop all these technologies specifically to land on the moon caused. Frankly, all those things we developed for APOLLO are basically gone at this point. We have sort of start all over again That's awful lot of money that is what they closed down sounds. So so I agree with you, but for different reasons. I think we need to remind ourselves of what it is to leave Woolworth orbit and the moon becomes a very easy target that you can get to news cycle. This is just a few days how you doing good you'll get bored with the trip,
there how you doing you landed for days. He come back. For dinner Sunday night and solve this We have to remind ourselves what that's like you. Without that you just say we have out of lowest more in forty years Let's go to Mars that doesn't sound wise to me. It's not as an end. It also takes us out into what we call mixed field radiation environment, where we really don't have a lot of experience, you're getting solar radiation from the sun and you're getting galactic cosmic radiation and moodily shielded where we stood near to the earth exactly exactly so to have a couple years out in that mix field radiation environment, where we can do some experiments with tissues with Sir dolls with model organisms like fruit flies to make sure. Let's make sure we really understand the effects before we send human.
All the way to Mars eight months exposed to that radiation on the way there eight months on the way to write my job, I D Gregory that it all back in the sixties, bathroom sixty learn on the point of sectors. Is radiation Evan, biological tissue right? He said when the chips back in space. Right remembers cheering, and he said I wasn't sure, because I know that there was an actual astronauts That's pretty good. Looking like a car, you we for something someone to space. We have no idea what the effects would be. After all, this experience on the space station we now know when we worked on the ice asking people say what are those astronauts doing up there there actually helping us find ways to keep humans healthy on for that journey to Mars the journey back, Mars, but the one thing we still have a lot of worries about is this radiation issue and in it's not it's not something we can. We can work with, but we
I need to know more about it right now, The people say all we'll, never good work, because the radiation organizations Mars is now. What big of a challenge to us today. Ass, the moon was in nineteen, sixty tackling nothing about the yeah, that's workers. We went to the moon, basically with them. The computing power of a Texas instrument calculate lesson? There really is a joke. Now our wits to rethink its like, like the singing greeting card or something you ok, for some one was saying the other day. I this flip me out that the Voyager spacecraft has about as much computer smarts and something in your pocket. Your car key since everyone instantly thanks yourselves, but it shouldn't, I think, you're kidding me. The key saw your car. Oh my god. That's now that is fascinating. That is modern, blowing right here.
Here's, a John Cates from Facebook, tacky job haven't simple me. This is often young exactly right. I'm sorry changed regions. This is actually is John was though this does not have any space capable drones. Things keep border, visibly drone. It's all drones. We know all require airport buoyancy ride and all our spacecraft, our room vertically trawls economy, drowns, Annie monitoring what we do is logically remotely control. So pretty much. All NASA is based capable drones. So drone is this everyone else's first encounter with remote, controlled autonomy
now what he may be asking about- and I want to make us question into- maybe not the question he wanted was the jet propulsion laboratory is working on a helicopter for Mars that you can think of is being I control that would would fly here on earth and group from the applied. Six lab has has proposed to one of the mouse emission programmes to send basically a quad compter to tighten Saturn's meant, so people have been proposed thing to use drugs like you know what we would think up front runs here and it's atmosphere to go, explore planets without misgivings, but if you set a remote control helicopter to Mars facility, really big rotor blades, because the damage for terrorists are set Now. You wanna remote control it. One of the big issues there is about a twenty it depends on how far away earth and Mars are about. You haven't really orange relative to each other, but we have an inherent up to kind of twenty minutes to a half hour. One a trip time for a command
so you send it remained yeah, it's just nothing can be done about. I have audiences all the time saying. Can you fix that Ireland know and then they'll say? No really can't you fix that? No, it's called the speed of light. No more at supper. Exactly can't fix that. So You have to have basically computer program sequences to command that there's no real time. Joy sticking- and this is where I comes into play and because you would have to equip the drone with the capability recognizing terrain and situations and then be capable of making decisions on its of exile. I guess the Mars and you say you need my help, we got the author, whether we think of it for humans, because now, all of a sudden Houston, we have a problem and you're gonna wait till minutes and you'll hear back. What can you if it there's not there's none of that.
So you really do need. I you need Frederick rhetorically, how I tried calling this work So we asked one of those territories. What of forty? Five in life is implicitly Houston. We had a problem but, as are taken, can resolve with tackling exactly and unjust That, though, on the other side for human mental health, but you haven't seen your family and seven months and you call your spouse and you say: honey are you doing in twenty twenty. Months later? You here are sorry for minutes later you here. Why that's my marriage? What I'm gonna go to my household ever more in it that that's no witty rapporteur when you return to normality in there just been accustomed something now, and there is nothing there right like you say that speed a light. So there there is no subspace communicate. That's why people asked you. Can you fix it? They're all STAR Trek bands like myself and they went in How do I get subspace communications? Where I can talk
somebody in real time across the galaxies, no episode of STAR Trek, where there's a time delay colleagues escalate. Another right guy got always makes them from what I have one more question: ok with all of us about Mars, because we were talking about a european enceladus- does not have any interest in looking towards the interval and it's like Mercury or Venus, and I used to study the man. Yeah doktor funky span and I are old vehicles- is, however, our story, It also has an answer. Venus. Is the earth gone bad luck? we refer to as the earth's evil twin so made of about the same material know what you are just fell in love with Venus Earth gone back. You stick with the love. Tat gets you sound like David? So the problem is here: you ve got this planet that again
cut it out and about the same place in the solar system made of the same stuff. It's like you put to chocolate cake mixes in the oven and one came out chocolate and one came out lemon in the end. Now this is important if you could say more. Who cares? Venus. One doubtless alternate passwords hundred Greece Fahrenheit on the surface, there's a runaway greenhouse, what worse You know. In the last couple years we found over three thousand planets around other stars with our Kepler space telescope and what we're looking for is earth to point no, this habitable. I am not around another star, so this so even more curious about Venus. You had kind of. Chances and our solar system at habitable planets. Only The earth was able to maintain long term habitability. Venus might have had an early ocean lasted, although it seo It was in its atmosphere, it has a runaway greenhouse. Why? How hard is it to make earth to point? No Venus can help us figure that out, that's pretty damn cool.
Say: venuses wakeful, it's the ignored planet of arms or since the number of these agreements, it's beautiful in the evening and warnings Jason Devils Man wants to know this. What NASA project that is cancelled that you which would be revived? Aisy easy, my tighten boat proposal I proposed to send it voting probe to see at the North pole of one of Saturn's moons to find out is there anything living in that alien see some day will flies. Is an ocean of liquid messing, exactly and the gas it comes out of her household stove. Ok if you say so- comes out other places otherwise with Moldova stock, but also in the suburbs of Ivy Propane, both typically cities, its method, the simplest of hydrocarbons from member states. Each cfcs for and he's got an h in
for directors, it's a beautiful molecule, actually only This is what I know. I'm hanging out with the others. A beautiful city turns a star. He throws the magazine, long curls down another lady, that's the aids. So, but it's normally its gashes in our lives. You drop the temperature you liquefied Anthea and sets may someday seas of liquid gasoline and totally exotic very cool, old. We don't know third belies it, wouldn't probably be lifelike life. Here on those, maybe life doesn't require liquid water. Maybe just requires the penguin and tightens place to go about answer that question. So I got what about cancelled so it didn't get selected? We were one of the fine all three missions for a disk
selection and they instead picked a mission to Mars called the insight which will launch next year with land assize monitor on the surface? So it's it's! It's too out. The idea is still floating the ideas. The ideas still floating problem is complicated, but it's basically dark titans poles during tight, winter and those seen the big seas are all at the north. Pole it'll be dark at the North pole from about the mid. Twenties to the early twenty thirty. So there's no point in going, you lost your window, we lost our well done. Well, it's gonna, be there idle these yeah I'll be to all, but you know, and I ll be- there was well. No, it was your dream when it happened if we continue to trade, the next generation of people, to become scientists and engineers or as a minimum, to embrace wits, It has been engineers do
then this is a recipe to assure that America will become smart once again ass. Well, let's, let's please hope Hope Hope is what you have. When you ve confessed, we have no. Impact on the outer. Why, whether you like it? That's all that's where the right you're right, I call prayer, that's what you do when you not in control, exactly who gets up San list and control than no. You have to hope that you will have to pay when you look at all the people who ve been shot out of stem for so long, and that if we now can get those kids involved in stem we're gonna have a much larger, more native more creative stem workforce and we ever handles for algae engineer, go step. You ve been watching suddenly only listening to start off Let's make America smart again addition cosmic queries and I've had spoken. Thank you,
Going auditing start ought really to have certain sites to past present and future NASA. Starter, welcomed, I'm your house near the grass Thyssen, your personal astrophysicist, and today we're gonna talk about interstellar. Space travel and what it's like to settle the next planning and we're? a colony settlement on Mars, potentially potentially other, hopefully with more people was their people than just a few that you get what you get to that in a minute when measures introduced chalk nice to think about this problem meaningfully. We have shown give her Jane. You need
you're, not on earth who actually experiment under conditions. That would resemble a colony settlement on Mars, pretend really potentially other, hopefully with more people, those their people- that just a few that you get what you get to that in a minute when measures introduced chalk, nice say at, I think for common to always a pleasure to be here. We think about things meaningfully with China and we think about things from He gets back. China is our leave of gravity. Young is only have left Oh, you know maybe he's out of that poetic having here the fulcrum you're in the round spot right between when Romania, the limited, so that we want to make sure we explore what it is to survive long space wages. What is it to do? Bring stuff to your planet? You use the resources. What's it like to Sir I've their physically emotionally cycling.
They're. All ahead is crowded, analyse data all of this, so Tell me about high seas, for what is that precisely in order to repair the s, one of the decisive beautiful patches and by my very talented, cremate Tristan it is. It is cautious, you why you space exploration and login simulation, and I see the flags are participating countries media UK. I guess in United States, France and Germany, France and Germany Bernajoux okay. So what what? What happened there? Well, they would didn't happen. Surat did you, we didn't die, that's exactly what did not have the same six people came out. Is when did very Mars, it is the same sex. Worse, thunder, dome error. Is its people enter same same sex life
when I feared to Gregory jokes back in the sixties, when the space programme was first coming along. One of the mercury capsules came back with the chip and he said what NASA wasn't telling anybody is that that went on. An astronaut six humans go in six. You would come at a very good and what so let us have the same sex. We was this on these slopes of Mount a lower, a secret volcano in them, and the big island voice. That mothers slumps- that's very rocky in this. It looks like the surface of Mars. Quite a lot. Yes, So tell me about and challenges, of being locked in a dome with five other people, seeing no one else four year, speaking to no one else for air sounds like a pretty cool reality so closely. What happens when we put part five people in a biosphere and see what's when they get real? Pretty but for minute to minute one it was really quiet. Then to the dance party started
so you is all the food yet to grow. You want food, or where do you get a little bit of that? There was not enough space to grow that she does come in through a through a hash, please Pringles, Briefites use your space is at a premium in space. Sadly, we did not have enough space to grow all our own food. I actually culture that I made the achieves the yogurt major brought him back to Rio. We day we're not alone there. Soon you weren't, we were very much better area, less everything that was in the bathrooms trillions time. Bacteria can write something because neither the made this is where our deficient intelligence come. No sentient beings likes to clean those bathrooms unsavoury. Indeed, this was to stimulate what what? What are you trying to do their life on Mars?
out of the twenty one month round trip you're gonna go there for nine months ago to spend some time you spend nine months come invoke it you shall have earth gravity. So you really, we d, stimulating the trip anywhere of that works. Well, beware of that linked with earth, gravity and earth air pressure the oppression. The gravity were beside the point. The point was: how did we psychologically deal with the isolation and the confinement? That was the point so now for the for the entire experiment here under on the slope of this volcano. Did the people were alone like they never had any outside can't addressed us any time we wanted to call home phone home twenty minute delay.
On the way to home twenty minutes to land the way backworlds most boring skype. Conversely, as you know, will be reported to the light travel time, so you can't be in love like you, you know I love you owe them in that was actually means of net. Was me and my husband or through new city succeed, is no. I love you more now, the next eight now so the artificially put in the time delay that you would experience being more. You would experience kind of the longest twenty twenty two minutes is the long while technically infinite is the longest when Mars goes another side of the sun and blacks out for a while, but the longest you would functionally have would be around twenty minutes so really for writ for any meaningful intends What is with your other five book?
A way has been. I did our best with video, you do your best right yeah, but that the red, the true life expel border journal that Jack no tell ok. So let's get back to the interpersonal, logical is sure so the peoples going crazy. After, while how long was this episode, three intrinsic? the six day, long episode zone in origin, what is more, when you compare it to your experiment, more important, people get along or like in terms of personnel we messing or to have something to do because they were trying to solve a mystery Erin Lahti was focused on this mystery than they had the salt, water, interpersonal, it's a calm and other go exactly. We all have a goal. Now is once more important. Is it better to have people than personnel
Let's get along or better to keep her body busy think the mission makes people get along, one drives the other, so you're, all there with a common goal, makes things happened. The common goals survive solve the mystery, whatever to personal stuff, he had gone before that tends to fade away. Cause you got to solve the mystery Gotta get that say. Every story force personal dynamic, catalyzing force sustaining from Simon enemy. The common enemy is the things that wants to kill you. That would be space, then everything in it The fact is that a good represents only the strong jack. Ok only destroy Antarctica that you know it. It's not giving you warm hug right, you rolling in their future lives in your home. We are making it happen, see I'm gonna interested will travel when they have a w that as doubles as a spaceship.
Don't you ever tell you about it! Doubles Aspasia and you. Wake up at noon and have pancakes check is going there's only one room service, Vague allows building hotel for you check so these distances are quite large. So if understandably Sayer five light years I like yours from earth? Yet so, if you go at the speed of the very fast spaceships we ve ever launched it would take you seventy thousand years to get there so that is commensurate with human physiology of textile just so, let's try to go faster. Now. Tell me about solar, solar source sales, silly else, will a great when you're near a star So when you're, the only S and the interstellar better can get a bit harry, you might want some other former propulsion along for the ride, or you have to be really fertile
rights because they reveal appropriating right here and now to be pissed off at our born, and they said this here to carry onto the two lads your generation Amber twenty and we're going to innovation. Five back. If somebody gotta wait a minute, you me I'm a place holder, that's why we get when you're a cog in the machine. So what else gets where this is supposed to go right? Yes, it is challenges there. So let me address that they were using solar sales and they also had some kind of propulsion system. Definitely by What, if you were a debt propulsion system, got you towards close to the speed of light? Ok, ok, and then ass now you're, just looking at basically five years would you still not age at that. At that point you do. If you do, the math it's five years for us watching you go there
now five years for you I'll case, it's much less time. That's lets you do believe how close to the speed of light you hit you. Ninety percent, the speed of light I'd, have to run the math, but you could end up with. In three years or two years rather than five. That's so, and you do it here, the speed of light. Take you a couple hours ass, yet so, but the problem is by the time you come back you're, maybe a year older anyone else's twenty years, thirty years old. Anyone would have forgotten about so we took care that the planet isn't a goldilocks, so it is, and but you'll have to actually be in a golden locks on true. Big gulags over you're, not too close to the signs not onto our letter, evaporate her too far. We freezes because a programmed greenhouse effect, ok and heat your planet, even though you would otherwise be farther away than the Goldilocks, whom you trap you're here zone is a calculation.
Assuming that You sure irradiate. Energy there did you write, review traps. But that energy you can lose your temperature little higher rates ok, so you, whenever you don't have to Let me be images in this space there. It's a nice just right, it's a reference. Reference stands there's buffer on another. So now here's the thing this Thea with, which is the planet rain is I would say, think of taking Fiji What's he eats the Caribbean, the Caribbean, the extra so that less solar plan in the Caribbean X, the planet and gorgeous so like? Where would that be in the Goldilocks or would it make a smack dab and about what you also want to know is its working for a plan to be there, but other things affect your climate like what is the tip of the axis of the plant? What is the shape of the
just a second time very close to the host are very far away. How elliptical is the ordered all this factors in when you factor all that in four earth you get an ice ages right, hold them awake? I commend my link of its work, So in fact civilization on earth. As we have come to know it and love it rose up relatively stable climatic conduct for earth over the last ten thousand years, rail actively stable. There had been an ice age, the hold her like that, but we know that there is nothing for us where human beings, we don't care we kill something and put around our bodies, and they are right. Forget when I was eight years as it is, is what I can imagine a future is a future our rodya. It does matter what the actual planet is. Bring in the machines that tariffs. Whenever hell, you wanted to be. What the Caribbean
you got the caravan got the Kirby you like New York City, you didn't. We want New Europe, make it clear that the climate- What that Sahara cause, you wanna, like you, know, make it the Sahara Avoid because- If you could do that on a short timescale, then your planet is your plan. He went, Tailor made universal, read like it. It now Mary Vertical, so Eric the business at least leaves us alive to suddenly just to get the holodeck from STAR Trek. We get the real deck right. We're gonna, leave this life of science in crime and go my planet, so or sales. Can they get you there in the short amount of time? The acceleration is not very well hope you speed up and possibly slow down, but they don't they alone will not get you there in a short amount of time. No rugged sexual wartime is what you could do is put at your solar sale and then use lasers tend to speed up the. At the start I programme wants to do here, but that we should carry on your ship was no. These would be fired from earth or moon or some something hassles Arturo. Those acute and
the character was in a sailboat what's it going to actually just pull out a fan, and I thought was a no- You can go ahead. Take envisage some money that will affect could work, who woke exact if that were the world would have been discovered a longer there is there is that there is a slight version of that that might work if you, if, as you going through space, you pull matter in the front of your ship and spit it out the back that will also enjoy rights count as now. That's where I am propulsion too. I am propulsion, so you re, sometimes warm you pull matter in the front is stick it out the back and so yeah use what you in sea to resource utilization. Tell me about that. So I asked You can guarantee that planets gonna have everything you need? No, with new? Definitely don't leave home without those, so the other piggy
take your place, make sure there's water need debris, the Unita indeed fuel or indeed to feed the plan sets a good starting point is too low and oh to write to let bare minimum plus anything you can put a three printer that will make more stuff that suffers go to here's? How do you drink your needs based on how quickly you would die with so goodbye, lighter oxygen, your dead in ten minutes, and can we need that water you're dead in a week I may make their number two food you're dead in a month the cameras. Right. I wish you were really fat and then just sort of work they have done in my target way. Thank goodness trip has been very successful. So I'd see that's how you might prioritize there.
You might also dismayed prioritize where you can talk back to earth. From I mean, do you want to go in, never speak any one, you ve ever known again, I like the ones you do. That's one of your major major motivating backdrop very good. Yet in closer the better, I suppose, but that's if I would think people who want to leave don't wanna come back and care about who they left behind, when I think of european exporters? They earn him at an end. Dive pilgrims pilgrims that debate care. What the hell's went back home I mean I think there were persecuted. Just got the how many of them, including people, to whom I was related. I think actually, the point was to go, make a place, better inhabitable for the people you loved and left behind, and bring them to. I mean it The girl immigrant miles we got out of here
We deal in what who make the best colonists really are people who can go long. Distance happy with not a lot of stuff worked really hard for a lot of money. Make life comfortable, I'm not a lot those are the space colonists you want, and that's Why there's a difference between astronauts professionals who function a very highly regulated environment and we are trained to function in just that environment and key Honest who were there to build a world and they have to function in any event if it gets thrown at the correct, yes, they are ended there. Well, this is good I like this. Can we bring you back again for some stuff to a man and twisting it I'll talk to people who, like traded, I live in space. Cuz space kills it says billion star talk and I've been your house near the grass,
thanks? It Jane endeavoured. Nick you, good jackknife it was a pleasure as always an I bid. You keep looking. I wish you'd. Listen! The star talk, commercial, free, joint start, compatriots for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot. Coms. Last star talk radio
Transcript generated on 2020-01-19.