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#ICMYI - Sports Injuries and Recovery

2018-12-13 | 🔗

In case you missed this episode on the Playing with Science channel… Hosts Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice investigate the world of sports injuries and the future of recovery science alongside New York Mets and New York Rangers physician Dr. Joshua Dines and sports psychologist Dr. Jim Taylor. 

Photo Credit: Bidgee [CC BY 3.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0)], from Wikimedia Commons.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial, free, I am the elder airspace in your personal astrophysicist. The startup network is pleased to present to you, a U show where the diverse and sports, and now I am so nice I like, and we are playing with fire and already put it
I'm very arena end up, and this is playing with scientists today show focuses on the openness of whether you ve just play or competing sports. You walked away to get injured out at some of us. It's nothing more than an occupational hazard and to reveal the cutting edge procedures in place in the operating room is leading orthopedic surgeon, Doktor Joshua dies who works with the met and the New York Rangers, as well as others, but to heal the body you have to heal with the mind and sports psychologist took to Jim Taylor, will show us how, in rehab and recovery
exactly that, but first, let's get to the man who does all of the heavy lifting Joshua dines before we say hello doktor. Let me just put everything an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in sports, medicine and particulate, showed injury. Yes, has being featured in New York, magazines, best doctors, issue and castle connollys top doctors in America but the right guy to unless we did it right, associate team physician for the New York, Metz assistant team orthopedic for the New York ranges and he's gone by car, and it concerns over. The array, dodgers does suggest Medina Welcome, prime assigned sir. This would have a guy's regional you're. Welcome completely unrelated medical question, while these sports teams do you have a favorite sports team, clearly the better the Rangers without there then I've got nothing to do with them. The guys are really my favorites. Ok, ok, just wondering just wondering if Chuck starts booing at you during the agitation
in Seville yields use here, Regina Eagle Span expressing after all, I've ever look at great and once again We believe we can both taste the sort of each other's tears has ceased, not looking good at all our eighty okay. So what are the common injuries in sports, say from thirty years ago, until the present day that you would see time after time after time, I think a lot of it as on others or we're talking about, but the most common borders. That I see for your shoulder and knee or are the two most common. You break it down by body part and when you get a little more granular the shoulder a lot of shoulder dislocations. We see that in football all the time so shoulder instability would be very high on the list and with regard to the knee ACL tears,
early as an eagle Spaniard, relate to Carson whence absolutely the minister's tears, ACL terrorism. The common in the knee and now those are the surgical issues that you athletes, weather is weakened warriors of professional athletes. They have a lot more sort, a minor things that they come and go on. Your account tendency to take things little tweaks, sprains that are more common, but with regard to what I see as a surgeon, it's really the Morse, whether the injuries get more severe, and that needs to be the children's stability of ACL tears loud. So you know you look at these the injuries that you just mention which have been common forever. You know, and I think that I guess it's the way. It's the way those joints are designed there. It makes it very difficult not to answer them when you look the way and the level that we play sports today. With that in mind, they used to be career, ending injuries
whereas now right you set card someone's here's, a guide, terrorised Yelp comes back six months later, starting line up he's, not a hundred percent does look to me. That's cause I'm a fan of it, but there was years ago that would have in the end of an injury what end of a career. What has happened in the industry? What it balances have happened to make it so that we can still these guys back together and get them back out on the field. The way it's happening now requested, I think, The first point you mentioned is that these issues are gonna happen, replay contact, sports play more sport, so you're not obviously want to try to prevent them, and we ve gotten better about that in terms of making sure people are ready for play in terms of being more sophist. Hated about measuring muscle, strengthen and balanced, but these injuries organ?
will they do happen? It ACL tear, for instance, used to be almost a week long procedure in the sense of duty in the hospital for weeks, so that research will take us powers. It because we're really big incision way. They don't you wanna cast. You made it possible for five weeks. I'm sorry, five days now. It's a forty five of the procedure, We, the people go home later that day, there's going to bed need at night and the next day so by yours. Recoveries, much quicker. They develop a lot less score tissue, and that really is predicated on or anatomy now he's better now, but also a surgical techniques of improve. So most things that used to be gone through decisions are now done or through scarp ugly, through small particles of the skin. Using a camera to help us and that's really didn't. The game changer. So the advent of Arthur was garbage. Surgery has really taken these careering injuries or injuries that would take sometimes multiple years to get back. I made them almost you're sort of commonplace that you're gonna get back with the euro in the same year the next season. She I can we liked what you just
Why? Because I had that, did you have ACL or not now, surgery, not yet? Well, that's final stage, not another by inserting hotel, because that the technology is you ve, just outlined will stop the wheel at less open and artistic ahead and ever look round, because that, without being disrespectful to some fine surgeon, that was your only way before MRI came along before you got the cat scan, you had an x ray and extra doesn't really give you define and immunity lot soft upstart issues so that we really must get eyes on it have a look Now I had an M seal ring Rebuilding, ok, but LOS. My crucially ligaments were basically added just gone yet, but because I was isolated and in the past a car, just three weeks a month. They would then bring themselves to a good position and we could go from there. Eventually, wait a minute. This is fascinating, because that doesn't happen anymore, so dark and explain to the listener. What would happen again and then Qaeda? I mean we're off track here, but I don't care because, like I don't know anything about this, what you just said, I know now.
About, and I'm totally fascinated now that you went through that process. And so can you explain what happened to Gary and then what would be done today? They are so like you jack. I don't know much about either because it before my time. Is we just don't do that you that's kind of a relic, but with you we used to think that ok, couldn't it cast mobilise it. Let the body kind of score back in your back in it'll, do well before this dependence you're looking to get back to you can host upon Casper, partly five. If you get back on the field to the Eagles, it's a little more difficult because during the healing process, your also building up score As you know, these guys don't have a lot of margin for error when you're at the top of the game you you ve, got to get back to exactly where they work way and that's where you know we ve from doing basic site studies of our eyes, we ve got a better, understanding of how ligaments heel- and we also learned that Europe immobilizing completely, is not a good thing. They need to see some low. They need to see some stressing that the bodies
constantly remodeling it in a way that is gonna work, so we ve gotten much more aggressive about mobilizing injuries, a lot more quickly which, as avoided a lot of the sort of complications that we used to see interesting. So the thing is the worst thing about having passed across from your total hip, like none you're gonna love, the worst ban is the age of the only thing that's gonna be long enough. Unusable is in knitting needles. This is the map that, if you want the definition of mental cruelty, it's the each just beyond the length. Random number more than ninety light rang in our country. Think about it. So now we may we learn. I love this through spinal surgery. You used to be isolated flat and then all of a sudden within the first twenty four hours, mobility, where kicked in the interesting they ve taken that
king and brought it into other areas of joint sea etc, which will have to buy nature. Articulate move yes right, so you want to lose that its now the two things here, but also not letting you get your stuff that you're not the athlete either absolutely so now. Let me ask you this, because there seems to be a in the world, a professional sports. There seems to be some variation where of fire the recovery with respect to the same injury, for instance, let's take the Asia our let's take him in this case are right. So you see one player light back a lot sooner than another player, or is there a standard protocol for the recovery? for one and how much of that coming back to true form and being Get back on. The field is up to the player themselves. I think that is a great question. The nail on the head. I think it's there's its multi sectoral. First of All- and I do this all the time because
when, when you read in the paper that person had an easy, alter or discussed here, you know is comparing apples and apples, we buy things become dried. Every ACL terror is the same that might become mandatory. There is also a lot of little things. I gotta go along with the ACL that some people may have some cartilage three somebody Desgas Injury, that really fast nobody gets kind of brush over it up in the press when he was arrested terror, that's the main issues, that's what's disgust, but those have real implications with Lord the recovery, if you have to repair them in his guests versus cutting it out that changes being on crutches for about six weeks. So you're always you. So I think what gets lost in the public. A lot is really the yoke the subtleties of what is required, is involved in a given surgical procedure and a lot of that's not developed by the team or or the doctors is really got a patient, doktor sort of privilege adopted. Those described is that I had a minister as you know, and I'll tell you what you know about listening to be rooted
can be a tear within the integrity of the municipal itself or it can bring to the outer wall and there at then the such who procedure. Depending on that, I had something where it was an integra tear, so it didn't breach to the outside world, so they suit should then that was fine. We thought this is good, and one day I was just walking guy that yeah you're recovery for the surgery is great. If you want to try to preserve the business, but that's a sexually recovery, whereas if it was just got a friend of the outside, you clean it up. Walking at night. So you don't want me. This is not the same. All ACL joint the same but took to your point. It also involves a player. Look everybody's, a little different. There is going to have the sport psychologist on you, and the of getting back entrusting it. So there are so many variables, starting with the surgery, but also the athletes there now at the high.
Level? These teams will have great physical therapist traders, so there's not much variability there, but they all these play important roles in the recovery process. So now there's a big. About these players. I hate to look at him like commodities. Sorry to objectify. You yeah, I was gonna jump defy you Gary, but you know you're, you're, you're, a very that's a man in your worth. A lot of money to me some money that is done by right now, so dark here's the deal Oh I'm on them a dumb, a team coach, I'm a team, GM or bone. I want to see my guy get back out on a few workers, in other words, I also want to win player, and I also want to get back on the field because you know that's where I find my value. But what you see in return on the flip side of that is re. Injury is a huge deal. You don't want to see somebody re injure. So where is the balance? And how do you and what's the
as way to avoid re entry and so for all our weaken warriors are out there that may be listening. They probably have the same problem. I've seen guys do this by day. Did they enter themselves playing on the court in the UN on the weekend and they tried to get back out here like a month later, they're sitting down are lined our back, an ambulance. So what? How do you handle that? I think it starts with the same for both professional athletes and we could work that really centres on patient education? Are you setting appropriate expectations in terms of What's the expected timeline till they are back at full strength, but also really being involved in the recovery, because not as we do Who did you not everybody for grasses if the same pay so its constantly checking and make sure they're progressing as yours, make sure their meeting milestones as we would expect and if they are great, if they're not been ok, you're enough, the temperature timeline and maybe some things differently: physical therapy or your folks. Areas of their recovery, but first and foremost, centres on patient education and with the professional
its Andrews on educating the owners and the energy aims as well, so that they have a realistic expectations as to other players should be back because you also d said Clara for failure. Where you underestimate the time to the GM, then the players, not and now they were glad that makes a player look out there. I saw the of anything overestimate and had to be pleasantly surprised, that than the reverse. How easy slash unbelievably difficult? Is it I have that GM conversation, because the coaches- and I tell you this chart- the coach goes cold on the player way, because I can't have the player right so therefore easy, you're dead to me. There you go. There is basically that, as it may sound, that is the censor. I'm sorry. I was having a flashback on another twice that that is almost word for word, the conversation lock and with greater legal systems that I've seen it being pursued
I have been on the other aim so and as it is called a Meda he's going to do with that yeah we'll team Hogarth to its, but you have to do with this level of expectation, and I can imagine the pressure on you is amazing. So how have techniques have they changed because of the sort of GM pressure. Now I went come out. I would have liked and comes into the operate now. What is really find out when a role play with a doctor I wanna, be. I want to pay the GM, and I want you tell me the gallery is lost to me for the entire season. It is,
aim one. He is my star striker baby, even though you can play striker, but still here might at our strike or take an end or right. I got caterpillar story here. Man we're ok, so Gary's lost to me for the season. You gotta have a conversation with me. How do you broke their conversation? I think you know it starts with having a good relations with them, that their trust me that you're, thoughtful and its use is being honest. You too, if you should recorded or try to cut of talk, how'd. It set their expectations. You know that he's gonna be back there, nobody went in and they don't trust you the future, see how to be yours. It's it's a talk, conversation so how do you that aren't, I didn't call- is already started. Ok, I'm happy to GM. Ok, I talk hears the deal with respect to carry I'm trying to figure out a timetable for his return. I gotta, because here we ve examined we ve got at the ever? I know it is frustrating for Gary, but this with his hands
he's not you're not gonna have addressed. This is this is a diver recovery, the quickest and maybe even a year or so now I gotta tell you that that doesnt really worked for me. You know man what we're looking at a season here, we have a chance to do something very significant. You know you're talking about nine months. That brings oriented let Caesar what what is it what's? He gonna look like to me next season, the pro. Look we Russia back. If you got assigned to a long term deal, then running the risk of re injury, and then you lose him for three years. We ve gotta be smart about this. Its role in the season will find something. He's gonna be irreplaceable, find somebody who can hopefully step up you gotta gray farm system, but it would be foolish to look to him this year, but After this little. We back for gesture that you left me no choice. I've gotta go put on my cleats again and get back out there. Doesn't answer late entry for the often end up all right, so there I will go these doctor, I mean it's. It is basically that scenario gets played out over.
Over again and a coach has to be cold, because if he can looking over his shoulder, the guy in the stands or the guy in the treatment room he's not focused on what's ahead of him, and what's ahead of them is another, a whole season or whatever the length of time is what you have just told me that I could never coach any. I mean I don't do that to you. I couldn't do it. I could not look at somebody and say a man look, that's it you're done. We have agreed a great summer and previous screw you. I got these other guys. I got to deal with this It's ok, where do you see surgical procedures? Developing progressing, am I mean, is every athlete wants the miracle cure, but that's that's by the by
That's a wish that probably will never ever happen way while we likely to be headed and what is the sinking for surgical procedure at the moment in terms of future, I think our techniques as we discuss with ACL earlier they really evolved and or his dear. We ve done a lot more stuff, Arthur sceptically, small incisions. I think really three things that are changing and really for the better, improving our outcomes and getting athletes back. Reliably are age is more minimally invasive surgical techniques, with a better understanding of of an individual patients anatomy. So I think out of town Certainly, there is more to individual, whether it's like patients, specific instrumentation, Is it that age or using our property of studies that that you mentioned before city scans, amorrhites, took out of reproduce that giving patients and out of a supposed just sort of a one size fits all approach? Then you all meant that with
logic. So I'm sure you guys of earlier because that stem cells and Europe to give these biologic actions is still the wild West does not great science, yeah, but it's getting better, and I think if you asked me a kind of five years from now, we will have a much more targeted approach with these biologics so that treats persons a little more effectively and then the final straw is just improving our rehab being more thought? Terrific about you know, assessing whether I think return to play when they're ready to return to play. You put those three things to go. I think we really improve our outcomes and get athletes. Bat more reliably, man, it's amazing, especially by large, have we got into a point where we were able to target specific areas with stems else for rebuilding, so you would go when you would do us small surgery and then introduce that catalyst to rebuild that areas that what's happening, we're starting to. But right now it's almost like a carbon barbary, just injecting all these stem cells. Having as we as we get down the road with a better understanding, the healing process will be
they were to put this one growth factor in a day too, and this one a day seven in this one day, ten, because in such a complex since there were just starting to understand- and I think will continue to get more in a sort of scientific about it. I can imagine with, and we did we focused on the ligament damage the can and does happen within all sports, whether it be elite or, as you say, we weren't worries varies a laxity instead of breakdown. So the thing itself doesn't snap into, but it becomes less strict stronger and therefore are you able to rebuild? Are you talking about being able to rebuild things like that repair, tears quicker and stronger Why thank that you that's ago. Nobody would do that. Yet you know we don't trust it enough. Yeah sure! That's all you can kind of you to take. A rubber band has lost its electricity and annual strategy. Air is opposed to using a new ligament where do tended to regrow it at all with biologics. If you can change the world every time irresistibly search? If you can cut that,
everytime from an easy of a year to six months. That becomes a huge a benefit to the point. Maybe you mentioned earlier. Look it's it's a body issue when he's teams as well and by the way that sounds That kind of sounds a little more like the fountain of youth, though I think you'll end up. You know you will end up extending the life of a player. And what they are able to do for much longer periods of time. If you were able to achieve something like that, so I'll go back to the early ninetys, one of my teammates go bust out with badly with an icy soccer plan, they came from the UK came here to California, and I believe- and this goes back to the sort of roots of the biological that you we would just discussed with the doktor- they may well have put a dead man's or their persons achilles tendon. Yes, you re. Yes, you say yes, so that if you follow on from there right, this is
the science and the thinking leads to an and then what goes beyond. That will be incredible to now get out there and that their ankle die once they have magic spell out that for going one step further using grass growing in the lab. You have created a biologic exotic provocateur, but that's really got to the bigger the holy GRAIL of making us let him in a lab that you can plug in any way works from kind of pipelines. Europe, whereas fascinating stuff abandons really tat, is really exe to really ex that's just very exciting injury. You think I get her. I see someone like doktor dines, I get into rehab. I go back and do my thing. What most people don't realize is just like the elite organization and sports? It's always moving forward thinking.
Within medical science? Always moving for and the demands of elite sports is in some way and doktor just agree or disagree on is pushing to a certain extent a little bit of the thinking in the techniques that we are talking about right now, so do they sent me exactly they set makes that happen. What you got We're just talked about all these kind of it. Do they make their way to the regular public? A man is a kind of like raise our driving where you know when that happens in a regular stop car the odyssey. That is a great example. Any practical is both ways where you know there are certain things really to be a little more hesitant to try the highest level that we use. What is there to stop its tried through? Because I don't want to ruin somebody's career? That's making you don't twenty billion dollars a year raised some of this stuff. We actually started. You know much love at the other end the spectre of people that are lower demanding you say, oh well, this is working. Maybe we can stop We have all been athletes, there's a bit of it and then there are other. Things are clearly used to be reserved for
high level athletes. Tommy John Surgeries, verve example: now you see your high school in college kids getting so I think they kind of meat, the middle coming for both directions. Interesting, I got one last thing. I just got to ask you about cause, I'm confused I'd. So the terrible sprain old. I when I was maybe eighteen right to the point where I mean like completely immobile, like that's how bad this brain was adopted, which is like gotta, would have been better if you broke this. They were then, this planning that I've heard before it was. I would have been so much better if you broke this than this brain right here by the way is still bothers me to this day I didn't get by. Rehab, because I didn't know about it back, but I see these guys on the field They were braces and they have these support, equipments the equipment that they put on, and I was told that that actually weakens you in some way that you start to rely on the support of the breeze
the equipment? And so they told me, I know you don't want to do that, but yeah I see guys like Aaron, Rodgers and even even Carson went and these guys combat and they are when so. Why what? Why is what does that about? And what does that happen? I guess you you're you're forty square we're allows us. We want people you're mobilise or to put a brake on to give some extra support initially after an injury, but you want to become a crutch where the muscles around this north African there do not do well what you're, so so, what they doktor told you the problem is that doesn't apply toward air Rogers Recourse westward. These guys are strong, but they got. You know people trying to their arms inhabitants do try to. But there are also other lesser supports, not a bad thing and they're, not decoupling. By wearing those braces work. You know three hours on a Sunday I gotcha, guided by the way Dhaka there's a lot of people trying to rip my arms off too, but for different reasons. I wish I was one of them, but not just right doktor. Thank you. Thank you. So much Doktor Joshua
what are our conversation yet an enlightening com, station and thank you so much indeed fear tat. I wish you well, sir, around me, I really appreciate it happened. Well, he's back and join us again. We are going to take a pariah. Thank you. We will be speaking to Jim Taylor when we get back the psychology of rehabilitation of sports injury. Following on from what doktor dines just said, it's gonna be fascinating to talk to Jim Taylor, so stick around will be with you, for events have gamble secret for you, I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell. There's just one and where to get out of hearing there go to patriarch arms last star talk and support
where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen. The star talk ad free, you can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never We're here, another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me saying if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just SAM please don't you fight about playing with science? We spoken with surgeon, Doktor, Joshua dines. Now it's time to talk to internationally recognised or sovereignty on the psychology of sports doktor, Jim TAT
doktor welcome to the shop gradually earthlings round me you're. Welcome what made you feel that there was something that was being neglected in this field of injury rehabilitation covering well all night. My initial work in the meat of my work. If you will an helping nappies, perform better achieve their goals through better mental preparation, inevitably in working with athletes. From generally up to professionals, olympians allow them would get injured. I began to see even when they listen. Is the reconstruction work? John Surgery or in femur or some such that these days, Surgical and technologies dusted. Alice can come back from what usually career any surgery. And made a full recovery, and yes, he would often come back into is therefore physical parameters strange. Agility mobility- things like that, but they couldn't.
The same level of play and also during the course of their physical recovery. Struggle in so many ways in terms of their confidence. There motivation under emotions It became clear that, when athletes physically injured their minds, get injured as well, and I use therefore the mind being made up of is made up of muscles. Just like physical muscles. Either. We stronger injure, and so when somebody has a very serious injury desk to keep more for your play for four months. Or maybe a year more than definitely metal, stuff go and honour is h, aptly prone to the same things, or does it very from individual to individual and I'm guessing from a weekend warrior to an elite athlete they'll be an awful lot more in terms of which areas VI.
Mobile mentally, as opposed to the other. Well, the answer is yes. There are generally areas in which athletes, regardless of the level but there out I'm struggle, and so the main ones are moderation, confidence anxiety, fear emotions at the same time, because, because I loved These are more invested in their sport. The the Argo astronomer visits very often their livelihood, their identities. But that's not naturally case because I have often found weaken warriors translates runners passport there's, you know, just there. This is just the allocation, but they are are you serious about plus their personality components? some people just more resilient lesson. Social cover.
Who who respond in different ways. So let me ask you this: when it comes to an athlete being recovered and psychology, verse it verses actual brain function, can the brain send signals to someone that they should be over? Compensating because you kind of create a certain movement? You activate different muscle groups, because you are suffering from an injury. So let's say you go back through an you. You actually your rehab and now you're opposed trend. Can your brain still send signals that say: hey man, watch out. You know when you step this way, you can tear this. You know this muscles gonna rip. Can that happens great point? Yet there is one of the great challenges without these were returning to work after a serious injury, when once remarked, will not only think of the professionals about money back in how many times
his. He made a cut in his life milk, he's upon millions of times without any consequences. But that one tiny makes that now? If this were simple, simple numbers and logic and rationality that one kindly Recursion have zero impact on the impact that one event, a huge implications on them in terms of their identity, their physically their future, their earnings. All these things and so, and also the bodies wire through evolution, to protect itself so time. The rain heard the by making a kite something bad happened. So when it, when that that moving, it occurs again the mind is basically tell anybody, don't go
What, if I told you I, like you, said the same thing will happen there and it is not my own personal experience. You will favour once I've had my Ma Amselle rebuilt, so I then favour the other leg and over time the other leg is come to bear the brunt of all added weight. But the thing there is: how do you get the athletes brain? So if you like out, think your own brain and then providing the confidence, is there and everything is a hundred percent are as good as a hundred percent in terms of the recovery, the surgery etc. So then take that out or what. Chuck stars, they're out of the book thinking and allow them to pursue a balanced performance level once again sure will it doesnt start when they first walk on the deal the play after there? current were held and Rio. It begins
the very first day so I'll. Give you a couple of examples this means and fastening research related to post traumatic stress? search about among the military, where, if a sustained, a serious injury twenty four hours after the injury they can. We imagine the experience. Without the injury, somehow seems to keep them content. The trauma out of being woven into the fabric of the neurons in the brain, lousy still these days it is still preliminary, but is actually pretty darn powerful. So by doing that, in a way the minus healing itself in a very short Carrie before it gets some in well, then It's a matter of training. The mind is in rehab in the mine, so I called the psychological rehabilitation of sports injury. So just is the athletes go
Did you pity and work with trainers to rehash the muscle I read out? The injured area laments the bone. Whatever They also need to review the night in a complicated. So that our first all the notion that rehab have athletic performance These are things when their seriously injured we all know more work rehab different end than he did ass, worse performance us doing. Of legs? She's range motion were increased How was alleged war? That is an athletic performance. And that has tremendous psychological value because alleys can connect with. This would enable meet with success was naturally this Let's get able needed to be successful as a real power and so you just really just just check,
being a perspective of unknown internationally, I'm still in Athens. So with respect to that, because doubt now, dear you're, talking about there is, as I caused you to the rehab itself. You know I would assume the two things one it's hard to motivate an athlete during rehab, because the immediate gratification of being an athlete is getting on the field. Improving what you ve done so when I'm in the weight room and I'm trying to put on four pounds of muscle, which is very, very difficult, its gruelling and it hurts I'm ok, because, unlike I'm seeing a little growth, I'm seeing some performance improvement on the field. How do you actually get them to? What are the metric says? You can give them because their they may not feel like. Getting better is a matter that is the opposite. I cant do what I used to do. I feel weak. How are you and what will you do for them at the red line? It starts with that respect. It first of all we have is an excellent performance, always leave it
because they still athletes there still performing, What I found is that very often with athletes motor gender, legally Can over zero to a from a party are too out there and I'm gonna, be Jerry Rice get down the feeling after three with rubies posed up international back in the day the huge amounts of forty nine Us Van athletes. Actually son athletes there Beer Ashley's after they recover these. They learn. How hard is they learn to software? They learn struggle with many get an app. Is everything kings them easily there, but also Everything about injuries that- and we have- is that there are very clear measures. Ranger motion before I can I did and then my knee forty five please. Now I can with sixty degrees before I could. On five pounds, and now I've lived a fifteen pounds sandbag, so that would suit differ the Ark the trajectory of of improvement is still there. But the differences from it.
Whose healthy different gone triangle from here to hear rather ginger that you gazing at the screen they're going from here to hear God it's interesting for the early athletes, the professional guys that at the very top you take them out of the game, the furious yeah, because they that born to play that's what, since they were teenagers, maybe earlier booby it. So you take them out. They will do what it takes an factually. You have to reign them back in and adoptable confirm, and I've done it myself. Thinking in a watch rip. The shirt outcome is a big s on the chest. Raises may watch this three weeks later I'm back to the moment before I thought I was Superman right, an immense that's. The problem will carry the single biggest pieces nice. I give an Israeli when the economy is stick with the programme, stay with them don't under you do it, but, as you suggest, elaborate seriously, or at least a figure which is if this much is good, but we must do is to be better.
In a lot of times, especially with Superman. Athletes is not moving them. It's deem awaiting them is put a bit in her mouth and rain. Because my spirit, both professionally and also on. My shoulder reconstructed matters crashing seen a number of years ago was. If I step, if you stick with the program, you do get there and doing too much or too little will actually says you back. Can I could ask you about paying them and the actual real everyone experiences pain differently, including athletes? There are some people that, just I don't know what it is. Managers have a higher tolerance, I'm not one of them. But how do you deal with that? Real? Because it's it's an impediment like it's like. While this hurts, I dont want to do in your brain by the way is actually designed to tell you don't do this. This heard there is well you're not supposed to discuss. It
and so what what? What are some ways that you have somebody get over that very real obstacle of pain. Sure what first of all I had to keep him about eating his accidents, one for research on how he is not The physical experience is actually failed. Through the mine. We received the pain impasse. Degree pay me Such an example. Research has shown that when people, associate souci negative thoughts. Like I hate, this is this hurts so that and negative emotions. Like anger, frustration, despairs disappointment, they feel more pain, Well now, turning around Now- and this is where you been working as a tool- paying can be looked at this information so that hurts What can I do? What do I need to learn from that? Do I use that word? just exertion payments is actually good pain and Conversely, from the research I just described, you went out, he'll pain with positive things like I can rapids
This is a good sign, I'm working hard on getting better impossible. Such is pride, inspiration, excited, a priority must respect their now. Then then they actually feel less pain It was really educating in his rapid spot, where pain is how it affects them. You know some tools, they can use that actually either pay now, we'll thinking positively work as well as no one can, of course not, but it can ease the pain and also just getting them to understand that this painters. Actually, not bad is part of the deal makes them makes it more. Helpful is interesting. Go back to the point you made about how with armed forces personnel if their injured and this will relay going to athletes within twenty four hours. You help them revisit the incident, but we the without the negative outcome right right. So having bear that in mind, you ve made me think I can't be
he'll myself, I'm just gonna if it there's a fracture, if this tears in ligaments things, but they might be minor injuries where I can change my state of mind, as you ve just described, bring that positivity and maybe not cure myself here myself, but speed up the process of recovery in a really really good way, yeah there's a bit controversial. There has been some evidence the mind: has the capability he'll parts of the body, not course not by some, so psychic magic, you're right, but simply by increasing blood flow. For example, I relaxed I have one last the body which allow The body you're better, which at least immune system There is something that the bottom line is that there is an injury of any sort, whether a minor, all or a major tear. The boy needs time to hear and then it can't be rush. Everyone
Yes, there are in dealing with almost part. There is a general range, let's say an orthopedic surgeon. Would you unhappy get based take, free six months, and somewhere in the range theirs Feeling better in Japan Physiology the athlete where they are and that we will will jetty how long it actually takes. So you maybe it will be Gary's question or Gary's comment about being a pro athletes, and then the super man on the chest is made me think so. Is there any work under way, or is there any counselling being given to code, is because I would assume that that same mentality of TED talk about coaches and worry that same mentality could actually lead to injury itself. The idea of I'm gonna push it and push it and push it as opposed to hey man. This is my limit. Let me back off so that I don't terror muzzle or a legally,
or whatever before you answer that doctor, give you two examples involving me. Ok, I mean a rehabilitation unit for spinal, so recovery from spinal surgery, and this isn't a two week saying this is taking several months. My Shaka club sent head coach to confine may see what I was doing, how I was getting on what work, why was it taking so long because it was outside of the clubs, control gray? In other words, why are you still here Ray and this pressure? This immense pressure, that's why athletes push the professional guys push because they know they're gonna get pushed by the coach if they don't push themselves, you know what they're gonna get someone else to do more. Job yeah, it's that called right, we'll causes play a big role because they feel tremendous pressure together to divest, whereas on the other, and they will often do this properly is not the best solution to the athlete and elsewhere.
These transports, medicine team, needs to push back the athletes pushed back in the day. We wonder when I'm ready, but that's hard, The player also wants to get out there, because They might lose their spot or the digital dividend. Just do what they do, they want to realise their identities, athletes and so get. It goes back to really trust in sports medicine team. May ensure Oliver the breakers replace and then mentally is gonna get places. Well, so do that does a sports, medicine, team and people like yourself, doctors like yourself, do you work with preventative measures, because I would assume what it what well forget, assuming what is the best way to prevent injury. Is it is unsuitable? Don't don't lie, but is it is it is it proper technique? Is it is it is it rest is a training? Is it re, increasing range of motion? Is it You know what what is it all? Those things would have yes,
It is all those things you wanted to retrain athletes physically. Lean tactically mentally in ways that prepared then for the demands that is placed on a bye. Incredibly well condition in terms of strange power mobility, flexibility and stamina, Good technique technique can lead to injuries in regardless of the sport, as well as good nutrition, is a big rest and recovery. Is essential because Often injuries occur when it women these tire and their muscles because of the tea is simply not able to do the movement and maybe the day before when arrested, because you plus making sure that there may be prepared if at it is not fully committed. They don't really have covered in their ability to make that move. If there are The right level of physical activation How did you not energy or just happen not too much and then
super focused on what they need to do to to execute Those things play into the legal, likely go back likelihood that The serious injury will occur and made up why you're talking doctrine in Geneva, as with all of our question, reduce they make us think, threats and arms you're thinking you sound very much at the forefront of this kind of thought process for sports injury. Have you any probably have identified the next level or is there a next level for this kind of approach towards sports injury absolutely in his where the reality is that very few sports, mousing class hassle psychologists or metal proteins are involved, in my work. I becoming very integral part of disbursements in tee in work, I develop training programme. Mental rehab programme just left the door and a p? Tease me other treasures about the physical Rehab programme, I do not the metals reaffirming the ambulance.
What the others do physically and so at improve physically there also improve mentally so when they go out under your first time, they are not physically ready insurers, while the physical parameters, but there fully committed mentally there a place mentally where, where it, where Chuck is, you said earlier, we're not going to get your mind's not going to go and don't do it? Don't do it her because that's today for re injury and so if you want, I can briefly describe what this meant programming? Yeah money has talked support. Quick were very good, so a couple of the components to do on the rehab reverses tunnel mental images of the most powerful until tools, metal, imagery having alleys He's the alarms, ass performing? What this does is achieved mine in the game one level guy doesn't know the difference between real and imagine execution. So athletes during the course of a six month or several months, we have it
three or four times a week there, Seen in films are performing this for their speeches made there Reader contains a wire the brain for companies for integrity, for Focus three, He complains about my performance thereof. An identical level. They feel like you're still reforming. So the idea is getting nourished Is there not a need to go out and do in question? excessively. That could lead to reassuring so imagery issued video is well. They always external image route the more the mind when the mines either internally imagines or watch this video, triggers the motor cortex. So I see that these are actually come back from a sport from injury, better athletes, because a day, their bare technically through their imaging video and because they know the game or the sport. Their drivers study this war here in ways that they needed no time for they didn't think without without work. So I might have them on the sidelines. Next to coaches, so learn plays from a different person.
In much greater depth, also decide that. We have is that performance. So before It goes in just a drum sports. The over their healthy They hopefully do things to get mentally busily prepare seizing host you when they began a rehab exercise, you would be committed confident in tears and focused, and what that does Egypt. They do not streams there now metal injury. There also being undermined, become bear athletes. So you get back feel their more capable performing at a higher level when I worked at least you're injured. I don't want them to becoming just just be where they were. I them to to enter the feel better athletes than they were before the unusual, while that is fantastic, that now good stuff
just you know we're out a tie are sidelined. Wow, I sadly is right. I mean you're you're really fascinating to speak with. If you take this to the next level, would you behind enough to engage with our so as we can explore that with you? and I have just been grateful. Doktor Jim Taylor. Thank you. So much support psychologist working with athletes and a number of ways book for this show, in particular with sports injury, rehabilitation soccer. Thank you. So much India go out and buy one of the doctors fifteen, I don't wanna go out and buy all safety works. You gave your dog back, you a lot of pressure so Chuck. That's it we're spoken to a surgeon. We spoken to sport psychologist
kind of got the time line of sports injury and how it was done and how it is done and how it may be done in the future. I don't know about you, but I was fascinated I feel healed. Mind and body net, and it's amazing. You know what you trust, someone like Doktor, Joshua dines as a surgeon to do he's thing, but then, having spoken to Doktor Jim, you realize is more of your own healing could be in your you're on your own mine in your own mother and with that thought Chuck, the guy say goodbye display Besides, I've been Gary O Reilly. Had I been seven eyes and we look forward to your company.
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-19.