What happens inside the brain of a great baseball hitter, and can it be taught? Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice explore the subject with baseball vision trainer Dr. Bill Harrison, neuroscientist Prof. Aaron Seitz, and baseball analyst and former LA Dodgers GM Ned Colleti.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on:TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscienceApple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/baseball-brain-training/
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I am the other s case of your personal astrophysicist. The startup network is pleased to present to you a new show where the universe, sports, color, and now I am so nice- I M very right and we are the whole stop playing with sire ready for it. Today we return to an American, mainly Facebook and specifically focused on Facebook brain training to digging a ninety five miles an hour far sport is said to be one of its, not the most difficult thing to execute elite sport. Many have tried view succeeded, but what, if they,
way to improve the odds in the back his faithful. I know what that is: no chalk, not Roy, damn, ok, well, listen! Helping! I see our way to home, run. Gloria hall of Fame is baseball vision, trainer doktor bill, Harrison, someone who already has a list of happy hitters, sprinkled around the major leagues and helping us get inside the mind of a major league hits and helping improve. Our overall game is neuroscientist Professor Erin Sites, a man who was about to get his work cut out, perhaps the loot lay and finally we're gonna hear from medical Letty. The former manager of a lay dodgers and current major league baseball analysed on tune ends at the plea. So once again, we are looking Bull show yeah pursed up on the plague,
The bill, Hammerstein Vision, trainer man's company slow down the game should give you a clue as to where we're gonna go with this. So doktor welcome to play with science. What right your pleasure, Georgia, that's great, so please tell us
thankfully, would it is you do with the athletes and, in particular the heat is well I'll. Give you a little brief background. I grew up played all sports and I put colleagues baseball hand. I ended up getting injured and an by aspirational, Vienna, basically baseball player in this does backed by day there were very good medical training and treatments for forgery. Yet, but I was always interested while I became an apologist result that there were taken pursue basis, also became an observatory, but in so doing does its university, California Berkeley. I was fascinated by why you great hitters, like TED Williams, apparently did well. They had great success as a Hitler and there were some top by can about how well she the ball. So I started a nineteen seventy years, yeah
I, like private research. I better ways to see a ball. I get any sport, but particularly a baseball. Does his sociology you so you use you fixated. I want to say some cool, but not just seems obvious plum. You worked with funding a vision in the eye now added some, The wool our listeners, if they dont already know, will need to have a little bit of a better handle on. So if you could explain exactly what folios earth for us without Russia to earth about ensuring that role that burden, but aren't very aware of our eyes. We don't even think got our eyes or designer constructed or how they work and that either we like to see they were the visual world now, particularly this day of that and photos and everything all over the place.
There are a lot of limitations and strength, so what'd I can do and what I can to now. If you think of the inside of the eye, there's your retina that covers the majority of the inside of the eye yeah, but with a network that there's one little point and that's called a phobia Alice or Fabio sunflowers. It has different names, looking that's where all the great high were Kay Connell. The high definition vision takes place. Most of us really don't use it to our backs. How do you go about training, heaters, Folleville vision, so, as you say, it's something out at naturally under use. So how do you develop it to make it? A stronger more, moreover, use well say that back The are days we get a variety of things, not itself
what we were doing, but knowing that it they were, they were sound, but we just invite had the full understanding today fast forward. We actually ended up creating stereoscopic images and what happens is usually you. The former to cards are, we have on the video screen or on a smartphone as well or tablet, but these two images are slightly different and there's a way to learn how to burn the two together, and this is with a server conscious effort of moving the eyes in a certain way, and I wonder when the birch together, then, all of a sudden they become more clear board the state and not a lot of a three dimensional vision. So we really trade, three dimensional vision
The only way that could occur is with the phobias pointed exactly at these images is, if you don't you go back to the nineties, the mid nineties, the best things could magic. I pictures where there was a picture in front of you. The few stared at it and focus at it in a different right. This out of this
A picture emerges is similar thing where America, guy images, can and they're kind of fascinating, there's no question about it, but they didn't require sack, polio, vision, general audiovisual. Let me give you an idea of your version will be looking at a spot that says that a pitcher beat about sixty feet away. It's really about six tonight, it's window very small window. Up close, it's even like the size of a fingernail. If you're looking at about three feet, so it's a very tiny area. Another rested a vision. This is important.
Her for vision and provision and what we we sometimes call phobia, vision, central vision, big bunch differently. They function differently, not only in the eyes of the brain and the output of what someone seas is different. Let me dispatch a briefly. If one uses purple vision about looks faster, it looks smaller. It actually appears to move more and rarely are the seams visible. One sees there a ball with their central vision. They see the same spinning, not only the direction of the schemes, but the they could be even get to where they see the rate of the spin until one central vision, the ball look smaller and larger, and it doesn't appear to move as much and
It's your hard thing to do is doable at the great hitters. Do it more often, but he's got easy. That's for sure. How long does it take soon reach? How long does it take to train a major league he too, and if you ve worked with several. I know too, Doyle Fredonia. They offered no government, please doktor, it doesn't take, and I say that I've I've had the results it a day within a few days, whether with particularly within a couple of weeks. Well, but what happens? Is there so much going on his distractions get in the way and once their distracted and tat she goes elsewhere. Then they lose a phobia vision, so it requires like a hundred percent focus and if the calm and and capable of doing that, did it After doubly so this is really not just about that. This Call seeing it is also car complemented
by a mental state, a being well, the eyes are incredible tool, but we actually see what the brain right, how the brain is really the overriding issue and that You don't regard the brain. The brain can be wound at a high pace and therefore, for vision is rather fleeting, but one is calm and in the so called close state, then the ice was steady. And the polio vision is much better to Belarus and thank you so much of your time and fashioning, leaning hidden science behind the art of heating in major league baseball soap? Thank you for your time. Doktor been of absolute, my pleasure, a nice word. You, gentlemen, by wranglings. Thank you right. We will take our first break. Thank you. Doktor Bill Harrison for explaining the hidden science behind hitting in major league baseball and fulfil vision
the school and that quite a bit we're gonna, take our first break when we come back, we because science was renewed. Scientist inside the brain is chairing the splendid splinter steps up to them, hey, I've got no secret for you. I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this show there's just one way to get out a hearing there go to
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Welcome back, I am very rightly and unchecked, and this is playing with silence and today, as you are aware, we are talking about baseball and in particular brain meaning in joining us now is neuroscientist Aaron sites of the University of California, Riverside Aaron, welcome to pinewood science Happy to be here, thank you very much for having to have you so the founder of use, your brain game centre for Mental Fitness and well being that's a brain drain. Research organization right and so what's your purpose, so our progress. Is that there's a lot of excitement in terms of power?
standing neuroscience and psychology can be translated into coming up with the procedures that will make us see better. You're better, remember he's better and died they try to do is come up with approaches. That already taken advantage of what we know about the brain, we can then to test them in serious ways and then to get them out of the world where people could use a sanction. In terms of elite sports, something like Major league baseball all in NFL a basket. How do you go about working with athlete where you get them to create the neurons and keep them viable and not allow them to just dissipate fade away, so The analogy is similar to Isabel training, what you need to do. Is you need to understand something about this
that they rely upon in order to do this has an inference, intimidate physical training. You want to do you know some server training to act to Besides the muscle, there would be involved with sport in an also you know, focus on you know conditioning so that they'll be able to do it for a long time right. So with the visual system. Anything that we ve done is true, hit the ground, you know what are the basic processes of vision. And then What are the best has, The points that are going to strengthen those and that a lot of it is actually come from standing from, but single recording studies were people stickler muttered into the brain and weak from individual neurons to figure out what those neurons like, and it would take us knowledge and ok! Well, if these are the processing channels of the visual system how do we prevent people with the type to stimuli that those neurons like
the train them in such a way that neurons will strengthen responses and so actually mostly approach, is it we focused on understanding sports per se. It really understanding you now. How do we sing in general and that allow the same approaches I've been using with athletes I've been using with people who have no vision interesting, so it's it's kind of like if you can improve a person's low vision. Then those same principles would apply to somebody who needs to improve the security of their vision for a particular task, exact wow. That's first what its ingenious approach. Let me just congratulate you on that, because who would not that I mean that's wonderful Secondly, I am interested to know you know. There's a there is a saying in neuroscience that neurons that fire together wire together and I suppose that that's about creating new neural net pathways home.
Orton is that concept when it comes to her, I visual coordination in something like hitting a baseball so I think that first, Most of it is not involved in creating the pathways. Ok was. It is actually strengthening existing pathway. It's alright, and so the idea is tat. You know we start looking at the perspective from the brain has to read out information with the eyes and that you wanted to do as efficiently as possible and the assumption the third is that essentially, everything about the human is kind of lazy. So if we don't exercise much, you know you see what happens or bodies The same thing with the brain is that if we don't do specific things to strengthen those circuits- that kind of go to adjust good enough level.
You I'm a lot like my dad right now, Doc Sartre. So let me ask you: I'm I'm trying to picture a brain right now, something that you know question whether or not I have to begin with, but I'm, the picture, how The brain is engaged during the process. Centres are so the Here's. My question instead of meat working this out on the air like this, if you put somebody in an MRI, ok, while they were actually hitting a baseball. What would be lighting up in the brain. Not a lot of cases where people have been in My answer is going to have to be a guess the guy's? There have not been a lot of cases where people have been in the manner. I was getting baseball's. Obviously, social, look bad!
so one thing that I think he is really important for tasks like this. Is that one is this way, has to develop some focus and protection of what's gonna happen, people, the task stars at the end of it. The things that you see an intentional networks, the brain so the cortex improbable cortex- in fact, as even some studies that were done by goodbye vagina side was at Harvard Medical School where he found that neurons. That process motion well sometimes even show motions. Selectivity so that their near the proud about that Well, we motion when animals expect that motion to be there, even when there's no visual system was making a motion. And so what this shows is that it did being able to these tasks. Having a template. What is
It was to be happy and the hand with IRAN's with the incoming visual information, so that at the back, the principle or tax will be responding. The incoming information and this will be combined with expectations. To give rise to what we actually proceed. And so sometimes it's allows us to really well when we have minimal the visual information at the same time, when you look at visual illusions, This is why sometimes will see things aren't there, because our expectations are giving us the wrong answers. Combined with what thing coming information is also a plane, The magicians hands, absolutely fair, professor, before we let you go and am frightened must, at some point where do you see the future of cognitive skill training leading you leading us so I think right now, what kind of an awkward teenage years carbohydrate So there's a lot of excitement. People are trying a lot of different things.
It's not really well understood, which things are really working well and things are like a bedroom snake oil what's gonna happen over the next five to ten years. Is we're going to develop a much clearer understanding which things work in which this doubt and why, and we're going gonna have increasingly better tailored training approaches There are going to help different populations and so I think that what which has been interesting, remain working with sports is that Boards is really not used to neuroscience. And I think what's gonna Happen- is that they're going to start appreciating that, the more that we understand how circuits in the brain work and how move those the more we will be able to come up with specific training approaches, that are going to make? It said the athletes will be better scale.
It happened to me to do that awesome, so it sounds to me. I mean it sounds to me that you're gonna have asked, leads becoming more even more and more specialised use. Specializations actually take over us for the most part. It sounds to me like you, you gonna, get even more specialised because there may be aptly said are selected to do things better than others. So I think it's gonna go to ways because on one hand, theirs going to be that is lacking at this. In time the thing which is really just during the females really interesting about this vision. Training. Is that the people that's gonna, help Are the people who are willing everything other than,
some particular visual scale- I just heard them back from there, and so if we come up with better training were actually make its and more people are going to be overcome, able to overcome the hurdles enemy. Yes, is fascinating. Professor, thank you. This was that really fascinating stuff, no glad we we've. We ve chosen to delve into this field of of sport, which is- is up and coming because it become quite a boom industry. I think around you, finding it in Europe? Right now? A lot of the soccer clubs, a big soccer clubs, are very keen to develop cognitive skill in their players. Is that right? Are you finding that yeah and beggars. We find that in Europe there is a lot more, but acceptance this type of training or in general, in Asturias Games as a person you ass, there is about distrust of anything that had the were game in it. Because normally it's the? U S, the
it's the way and embracing new thinking and a new ideas that sense Trump. Again and at first I thank you so much for your time, and your expertise has been really really interesting to talk to use beggar officer, Aaron sites there, a neuroscientist with his eyes on this, button bright, I see what you did there did didn't. I see what you did so we are going to take a short another one when we come back form of GM of the Allied dodges, NED, Colletti The gas from yes, there used to be
thank you very rightly said just now, and this is weighing with science and today we are taking. As you are well aware, look at baseball. And brain training and joining us were pleased to say, is NED Quality League baseball analysed at the plate on shooting and, of course, if your merely with the alleged judges, the format G M led welcome to the show me thank you know that can be very interesting to have a conversation yeah. I say that now and before we get our, what are you? What are you waiting exactly? What do you think the Dodgers right now
that has gone a little bit of a downward turn. It's long long season, but they ve been. I've had a really a historic about four months time where they, record was show good and there they were so dominant that they think they'd they took a breath and stuff for a minute, but they had a big when last nine they're getting ready for a pretty big October, come up yeah yeah towards these stage of the season with it he spoke if you're in, if you're lucky enough to be in the mix, how Oh confident, are you in the mental ability of this group to take it Cross the line in first place- that is a tremendous question, and I think that it is one of the fastest of I'm sport and partial, the partial, a baseball, because our banana from work
Five years, but the daily grind of playing a hundred and sixty two game land and approximately eighty three two hundred eighty six days in those days, you're off most of those days, you're not playing a game your travelling with. So the of a season not just physically, but they the mental approach and the focus piece of it is really what separates the good from the great or the great from the good. It looks whiskers were second and talk about summer in a brain training, you know as a gm, you know you're responsible for so many parts, the operation, but one of his course talent, and what are you looking for and in a hitter. Is it a technical, is it a gut feeling? How do you go about assessing talent that way
I think, there's a lot of different things. You have to look at mm players develop at different stages of life. I would really look for somebody who and if they didn't have to be a Harvard graduate or Stanford Graduate, they didn't have to have intellect of a book sword believe they need to have intellect of execution as a physical had a baseball intelligence, yes It's really. Stand the science of hitting and the size of pitching? Because you need to understand what the thought process is on the person at sixty ft six inches from you throwing a ball. Ninety five, a hundred miles an hour or making a spin or may drop in doing all these things, the best hitters I have found other their minds work like computers, were they reset after every pitch. Are they go back to zero
and they don't they don't held ahead with the others, the previous exactly they take every every piece of information they gathered up until the moment. Maybe up there. Pitch of the bed, and maybe it's a to an old com that they reset. Ok, I've seen this picture of thirty five, all the times, I've seen em, throw me a hundred fifty pitches, he just room it as to watch him pitching. As my team made watch of earlier, bet against myself. This is what I respect right here. Right now about happens within twenty seconds, med. Would this in game intelligence that you're looking for when you hit it? Did you
the fine that you were able to develop that would suit of cognitive skill training that you'd you'd brought into the club house under the players were working with, or did you just not show any interest in that dialogue? We always look for every every edge and including bringing in specialists. Who could how players understand, provoke thought studies put them at a certain situations where they could see, different things and train their eyes to pick up different things on charting and of visual, the German. January? That would which would provide them with different views of different things, are based but the same a related visuals that you would need in order to pick up a ball at a hundred miles an hour. If you want to know how much time a hitter has to react to a pitch time. It leaves us hand tell it time it has the headings zone. Take a book,
put your hands stretch your arms out and drop the book the takes as well, from the point of book leaves your hand until you hear the book at the floor. That's how long is it has to react. They look ask you something along those lines. Ok, there we talk about like a linebacker playing football there's. You know that these reading the quarterbacks eyes or he's looking at a running back to- and there like a lot of anticipation, same thing happens and tennis. You know, there's a lot of anticipation. You get to know your opponent, you just kind of certain tells Can that happen in baseball at the plate? Looking at the pitcher to draw out, two pictures have tells: oh, no doubt yeah no doubt use you'll see some that their facial expression, changes you'll, see some and you'll be able to say from the the distance away sweating
She anxiety, you read body language, jewelry, confidence, levels coming and going well, you'll rear registration. You read it all, I'm in a good. It is taking all of these things in. That's a maze and have no do you wear rise. Do you want with the guys the hitters, because in the end that there the guys that gonna get you to wear A debate and put run on the board to sail up this data is in front of you, you gotta understand how to breathe. In process. It- and repetition. So did William Incomes reaction times and data processing did you the guy's on that sort of programme we did have. It is set up a be careful to that. Aging is a very interesting activity. Yes agreed and not everybody learns. I've had players that have gone to the best universities in the country and graduated with engineering degrees, and I had players who had never been the college,
players who had really in some latin american countries very very limited education- not everybody, is going to learn. You couldn't get yourself into a lecture hall. For example, clubhouse and and taught the twenty five in others fourteen and how to do one by one well yeah, you couldn't do it like that. You had to do it. I don't wanna one I try to also have coaches, especially in a minor legs, and while I was last couple years with my GM tender, and as I was thinking about going forward with that, if I ever do it again, I would do it this way. I would almost require my my my player development coaches. You have six or seven minor league teams to if they'd, if they didn't know how to teach that they would learn how to teach, because it is so much about teaching and taking taking science.
Putting it in the play and understanding not just how to health, but how to understand what scientists, what people who can understand, vision and reaction time and how the brain works, to put all that in the use happily their place every day. This isn't a sport we play once a week, so you ve got six or seven days to counter regrouping and figure out what you gonna do, the next time you could sing you complete every. Yet another speaking that I mean you know we're a kind of looking at. You know how neurons fire and wire- and you know, create a certain type of Hitler in their visual training, but you just bought up something that I think has got to be very daunting psychologically and because you said it yourself: you'll get to regroup, overcome a week, you gotta play again the next day, so how you coach, a player to recuperate
from a terrible showing the day before, because I can see that would me personally. Let me just say I fail, something I'm not, My good man, it stays with me like I'm, like I'm we stated lay. I gotta get a victory in order for me to say to be made whole again, and if I don't, I could see myself going into a slump. So Lastly, you'd, you grow and I think NED might back me up on this. You grow a thick askin right so shortly after the a very powerful memory, but a very short memory. Yeah and, as you said, look no matter what the pitches you you, you ve reset your brain. But you ve retained the information of the last few pitches and history that previously you may have with the with the pitcher bought you
because of all the negativity it read. This is why I say that it will hold a major leagues. That's why I'm a guy medium and not a major league baseball player. That's exactly why I'm a competing in that cause. I can't do that now that, but also people placed Parson all levels of life, but how many play is at top of their profession. That's true! That's the set! That's one of the great separate is what you just pointed out that separates people who can paint cement. Do it. For a living burst those who watches plated and stop lying. You could still hear here's. How goes for me, I met my fifth, a bat where I've struck out again and I'm just like. I hate you guys, I'm alone and I'm leaving the park only with. Does it really is a genuinely or Gazer James dream right at the Canadian and apply that's right about one thing about love what he does that shot? You got a future of baseball as a chameleon working. Well, sorry, Nigeria, so think about baseball and think about what you just
the mindset of the athlete the area. If you fail, if you do ten jokes and seven get no react. Oh god, it's over. Are you kidding me I had? I would kill myself know nobody same seven out of ten. I bet you fail. They will statue of you outside, I see how hard it that's. All I did see. That's the whole thing is the angle at which you approach the numbers Let's do two things real quick, because we got to talk about the bigotry air doubly chair, of course, is NED qualities, new poor, yet a smooth hops and bad bounces from inside world of the Acclaim LOS Angeles Dodgers list. Talk about book man. What's what's going on with the World Bank, it is really is about one percent memoir, I had a kind of an interesting child had grown up. I lived in it the garage I was five m first, oh my
Am I to go to school colleges of white there, so my lock was not a typical what perhaps so it's a little bit of an encouragement a little bit of a motivational, story at the outset, but it really send to a little bit of the people you meet along. The way like I was honored to be in the presence of Frank Sinatra few times and the people a final of an interesting as time goes on and people know avenue. Frank Sinatra wasn't, but Bay story or to an hour relating to baseball, is frank and timely. Lasorda were how busy tremendous friends a long long time, all of fame manager. And then a Russia that is really the job and and what you go through. An It's not a revenge. Booker a kiss. Tell book does nothing in there like that it is this really
How you're mine works on a daily basis, or I might assume, need different challenges. Member, who is the biggest character you came across in major league, baseball, the biggest character, while, after careful thought of carriage a tailor? The greatest the greatest I was ever round was drawn for a long time bury bonds LAO he ill, Go back to one of our earlier topics and come back with a book for a second, but I was. See him. This is how his mind work is genius. It hit he would allow a pitcher throw him a page that you would look foolish on almost on purpose, if not on purpose, knowing that, in a case but later in the game or later in the seas, the plaza picture would come back with the same
and then he'd tear off of it. It is it out now I was looking at him after the game and I say be interesting. You know you through their pitch back in April, and you look RO foolish on it, and he just look at me with this little smile. Sounds like a squirrel bearing and not until he's gonna come back to a x amount of weeks. Months later So very birth rate is shit. I've ever been around of wild, something else that I learned when we talk about how the mind works, I spent but a time with weighing Gretzky when he was an Edmonton in Like and I will talk to his teammates about him- huge hockey. I will talk to guys on the Chicago Bulls, about Michael Jordan. I wish I knew guys under Giles would bury and they all told me the same type story about how they saw their mind. Work of these are their peers, and they say is the best description I could give you guys is
what we want a sporting event dislike- were watching a movie. You day it just keeps flowing right. You read because skated thirty thirty five miles an hour. Probably so watch that we're watching this movie go. Get him skate up and down taken Jasmine gray, past the way he would see the game would be frame by frame, so is mine could slow it down while he went a game speed and the greatest athletes. Jordan said the same thing he makes teammates told me: he saw the game like none of us thought MAGIC Johnson. By their owners of the Dodgers sought again like nobody else thought they waited at a rapid pace. Magic was always run, and on a court, but he shot in slow motion in find it slowed, but the body at it for tat so that people is the big chair from made quality. If what never has told you, what did your appetite? I'm gonna go far.
Spoke yet either by the bodies by all means. In October, it's out there on the shelves go grab it before disappear completely mad man. It's been such a pleasure talk, India that pray. How can you got thank led government ever read, I write neutral manner with us and we will see we wish I did off by how you can work, training. Your vision, how you fire synopsis of Neurons- and you know you awareness and a game intelligence, and then we finish up speaking to a guy who's having too learns in a different way, had a different speed at a different time in their careers. Their upset the receptive to these messages, these thoughts here and you ve got g. Aren't you stick the team in a room go. This is today's lecture because everybody learns in a different way, had a different speed at a different time in their careers, their upset the receptive to these messages, these thoughts here and you ve got a gm. Who is sickly, hurting cats
to do what he wants win games I mean a menu. Then you get the realisation that gesture might be a major league, heater or pitcher, but there are some guys out there although them in the same uniform, playing the same game Verona completely deaf level and it all up there between the years, two thousand, but only great stuff man. What a good show right? Yes, absolutely bright, hope you enjoy smashes Chuck, and I we look forward to your company soon. This has been playing with science and rain training like Galileo job the organs
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-20.