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#ICYMI - Protecting Your Dome: Concussions & Helmet Technology

2018-09-13 | 🔗

Discover more about the latest in concussion research and helmet technology with hosts Gary O’Reilly, Chuck Nice, Dr. Samuel Browd, Co-Founder of VICIS, Richard Brandt, PhD, CEO of Sports Science, and Dr. Roger Härtl, neurosurgeon for the New York Giants. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, Commercial free, divide, nerdy, sort of and brain surgeon, an engineer, mechanical engineers to come into football NGO, like you get do something a little bit different here or a lot different. You guys are the living embodiment of our shows, tat line, which is where geeks and jocks collide good job I'm real the rest of your personal astrophysicist. The startup network is pleased to present to you a U show where the universe and sports, and now I am so nice I like, and we are the whole stop playing with. Science- is ready for it
One hundred percent concussions and headforemost almost definitely, this seasons must not have sing, and people are rightly concerned, but is still light at the end of the tunnel. Yes will. Actually, there may well be light at the end of the tunnel as we speak, because active steps have already taken in a number of major sports to combat exactly this issue? Mild, traumatic, brain there is an chronic traumatic encephalopathy, are no longer marginal issues, but are now at the forefront of many minds, and today we focus on what is being done, especially in the world of football. So we'll be talking. The doktor, Samuel, brow neurosurgeon, as well as co, founder and chief medical officer at the see I as
so I will find out this, maybe we'll find out from him their developing new for ah helmet technology that shows significant reduction in the impact forces for NFL College, in youth, football and physicist Richard Brent C, o sport science, who are involved in a lot of Helmut testing, yes, as well as Doktor, Roger Heart, who is the official neurosurgeon for the New York Football giants? What we have is a group of experts can address why things need to happen. What is happening? where we are gonna go from where we are right now, because I think if we look backwards, we're not gonna help us. Now, and you know what here's the thing. First of all, we know that we have so much more information available now days. You know there was a time I remember when I was a kid playing football, and you know the whole idea was the ring somebody's bell, as they would say, like that's what you wanted to do and now we know that you know that's that's a problem, but it's not just for
is not just the NFL. I mean you look at their talk about the micro collisions from their headers in How can right they look at me, yeah, well, go so that you ve got a lot of sport stood involved in concussions in more dramatic traumas, but at the moment the people there are taking, The lead seem to be the NFL brought forward a hundred million dollars and a head health challenge which Doktor Samuel Browed groups. The shifts have won the safety, safest, helmet and is already in play with some and fell teams and play a solar used at home and as a child. Because, from what I understand, I was dropped Billy on my head they'll be a reason for that for first joining us and we have the protests they doktor Samuel, Browed attending Euro surgeon at Seattle, children hospital met, it be patient cause. This is a long title list by the way medical director of the Seattle.
Sport, concussion programme director or what University of Washington Sports, health and safety in situ, and he says as there were logic, consult into the inner fell, independent neurologic consultant to the Seattle, Seahawks and CO founder, and this is the important bit and medical chief medical officer. Is it vision medical officer, is it vicious oversees? How do we? last year I said, violated. We were totally off. We were everywhere going everywhere. Was I pcs vicious? I was like this is man? That's that's an aggressive title as an aggressive May ISIS obviously fora for a helmet company like this. Is this you spell myths, that's right where a vicious element right. So how do you get involved with this particular programme? Obviously your background is legit towards it, but you gotta me trusting cofounders on the board, I believe yeah. So I've had a great privilege of working to children's hospital in Seattle and we have a concussion
here. So I see a lot of kids come through or getting can cause You know also to sideline work with the sea. Hot he's getting really involved in, and football in general and instead, a few years ago that United Technology, really hadn't caught up in terms of certainly head hell of them, had proto concern. We started to look critically at that. Helmets and realise that the technology really hadn't been updated. Gave me a mid day managerial There was a nice opportunity to take the best engineering principles out there and really think what a football home it would be and should be yeah. You know that You guys are basically went down to the studs yeah. You started from scratch: XO from the fact that its yelled it goes on the head. What is that process? How do you start from scratch with a helmet, so very
work at an amazing research university and I literally called called the chair mechanical engineering and sat interests in talking to you about this problem. I think there's an opportunity around football helmets to do something different, originally football summits were designed for catastrophic injury, skull fractures, bleeding the brain? They were never really intended to address concussion, which we think comfort rotational forces and so sat down with Pair Rhiannon, and we started to think about how the engineer and trying to address this particular problem- and I think we have this great luxury of starting completely. From scratch and moving forward and trying to build into the helmet. Although the things that we would want to see, if we're leveraging the science, the best medicine. The best engineer, if you ve, got a hundred percent perfection as your aim. How I do think the zoo one. The helmet, your actually holding has got to addressing them
it's important. I would say that there is never gonna, be the technology that a hundred percent eliminates the risk of concussion or our head injury. But what we really trying to do is under and the type of forces that we want to be in design around man, and so, as we ve gone through and build the helmet and started to do all this, construction in the forces that are transmitted through the helmet to the head form, so we're hopeful that that's gonna have a meaningful effect in terms of reducing risk of injury and set out. These are things that we're looking at long term to the above, a study, very cool. When you talk, that rotational forces? You just explain for anybody who I do not know what that is. When you say rotational forces will you believe concussions come from and when I say somebody who may not understand I'm talking about me. So a lot of people think that the injuries are coming, just from a straight here, says, set up front at home. If,
ample and a lot of the injuries are occurring because somebody gets on the side. In what's happening, the skull is, that their sort, a representation of separating where there's forces that are put down, toward the center of the brain, and we think that those are areas that are more likely to lead to a concussion. As we design that how many, if you look at the internal structure of this thing, it has columns and the columns are able to notches Ben, but they can move in different directions in the idea there is it not only can it this linear forest, but it can also take- because these sheer forces we get hidden from the side arms can move, and in a brief some of that energy and This is one of the really novel and unique things about. This. Is the design of this house that layer that you just described where did you go for You go to rather for your inspiration in terms of that kind of solution. To that problem,
IRAN also rebellion mechanical engineering. To be honest, he tied back into history. I beg you know. We started to look at the properties of columns and how they can move income and we are looking for a very specific type of force curve to reduce the energy that you see in football. Through many many generations in experiments. In the early days we came up with a ideal ized structure. So how many you, the column, server, how their space? How easy it is to compress them or not is all part of the magic of the web is how many design works. Remember there was bid talk years ago about this water helmet. I don't know if you remember, that currently there are where you know that, idea was to absorb and distribute the forests of the impact. How is this different?
I mean I'm, I know that's what you're doing you're absorbing and distributing the force of the impact so there it. Doesnt reach the brain, that's really what you're this kind of like the way. A shock absorber, picks up the bumps in your car you're still getting the bombs, you just don't feel them so. But what is the difference between that and the padding of the farm padding on the inside of a element or like remember the water helmet. What what's the difference near so when you look at all from its years ago into how trying to look at is what the force curves look like say you taken you impact this helmet, how many g forces D see that spike up from the head, the form that, since for the balanced us and so As we look at different materials, and you look at water, for example, when waters can press did actually can causes a victory. I e g force versus for materials and indifferent phones also have different properties, and so
Are you really want to go to try and taken their structures? You can too distorted the force, and so in now made, for example, the vices year. Why there a column structure that mitigates allotted respect, there's also padding inside that's used, There are also affords energy absorption, so there's a lot of science that fortunately, the engineers are quite early and figuring out, and we try to really optimize around the forces that we see in football in particular whither. What's going on inside the helmet, ah, you now looking at it being gigantic, is it concerns by dimensions the size and white that you have to work to, or can you do whatever you wish almost ass, though that's a great idea, let's just give players, I am helmets everybody can walk around. Looking like they're in the modern grass parade we don't have to worry about it, just giant helmets, rudder, around I'm, I'm sorry
got it. Because I laugh about because in the early days you know we are thinking about the helmet, and you know the kind of some nerdy got as a nurse surgeon in Macao. Uncle engineering. Have you made the helmet bigger, that's probably better, force absorption, but, as you know, what I'm talking about, guys are playing and the mere test is very, very important, and I ain't gonna talk to them and say safety safety safety by number one through a return on their this often how cool resisting looking do. I look vicious and fierce and ready to go play so early days. We knew that we had to make a comment that was gonna. Look like a football helmet. Same general size requirements and then also weight and so ass we went through. The design of the summer. We did a large project around. It does design, I talk too many and coaches and everybody else, the kind of get a feel for what a helmet should be, and so, if you look at this,
as it is submitted its the same as other elements that are currently worn by players. The way of this current, Oh man is right down the middle in terms of how much it ways and the aesthetic- Well, it's really mark earnin in very cool looking. It doesn't look hugely different, then that a helmet in it definitely doesn't look like a babo had for somebody to wear this now sleep. It's a really cool. Looking out for those of you who don't watch us on start all access dot com to give you idea of what the home. It looks like think of a fighter pilots helmet with visor down that's kind of what this home looks like so. The dock is holding it up on the screen right now. It's actually a little ominous looking to be like. If, if you were to wear, Helmut, it's it's scary? Looking you know what you want on the front hello kitty well beyond
don't mind model that we have a duty as matter fat, you show me, and I felt Blair when it hello kitty on the front of his helmet, he's my new hero. Alpha heavens, let's get back to reality, you won the NFL, had helped challenge and congratulations to you and of everybody on your team. How they did you I'll pick up in terms of the NFL itself College and on high school players. Yes, Oh you know. Initially, we spent a lot of energy reaching out to the teams and players across all levels, so that. As from the NFL, to fancy double aids, even high school programmes, to again learn from them understand what they would want to help me in where there have been problems with how, in the past, for the and so we really tried to establish good relationships and partnerships if you will, with the different team, as we were developing this thing many contributions throughout the NFL and in college and other places
that went into the ultimate design and sir we really wanted to live the sin in and how these guys so that when we went back, they understood what we have done. We had done it and make it advocates of their player that day, at least take a look, I'm wearing this, this helmet and so weird fortunate I think you know the z hawks locally here been amazing and their staff, as advice, and I think it's paid off. You know this year, every single NFL team. Why? players in our helmet, we're gonna have somewhere over thirty and stay double at eighteen wearing the helmet, their teams, like our dame that have gone to almost full roster adopts, as well as paler and so or certainly see people pay attention and recognising that they want to look for the It is the greatest in the best technology out there.
Congratulations by lieutenant, that's incredible! Just just as a point of interest. The interval had helped challenge was kind of like a young call, the cops if you will write for people to come up with, solutions to concussion mitigation. Correct correct, as we know, technology is an awful lot of solutions without knowing it for a number of other problems. But I have this reoccurring question in my at my can't get rid of it and I apologise in advance. If woodpeckers don't get headaches, do we looked in the Hague for a solution. Yes, woodpeckers don't get headaches, but they do hangovers and believe me, I've done a lot of drinking with woodpeckers. Thank you for that. Do you like to nature for it for answers like that to get a Gary? I gotta tell you that's actually kind of brilliant, because I'm thinking now of all these animals, like rams Actually they do that day day day
earlier with aunt later with the antlers there you know so is. There is a way to look to major for some answers. You know Actually very question, and people have started to do that in the animals that you mentioned in particular, would pick Curs Rams things like this there, a couple cup is that are out there that are looking at night, collars or other things that can rest the jugglers think zoom out of blood, that's in the brains, maybe not as much sloshing. That's going on as an example, I tend to undertake a step, I can go. Those things are very interesting and then maybe realm of events in the future, but the practicality, is where I always get hung up, because you gotta be able to not just have a good technology, but you gotta be able to bring it to the field and big
Besides that, the players are gonna want aware this technology, because again often we're talking about young people and the especially if you leave athlete levelled at their varying grain than what they ve done in the past, and so it's not just the technology is making sure the technology fits into the game and so forth. It's been a big big component of the way we ve tried to advance the vices devices technology make sure it looks cool it Since you sort of the word, therefore, these guys and it as this advantage in terms of safety just to coerce, because we gotta wrap up, but we look at the big manufacturers that are out there. Is this something where you share information with more? Do you work with them? If they were to come to you and say you know we want we want in on this with would have. Is that work?
as a community. We all want to be able to work together to see you know these safety advancements move forward. I they were- and I think that very striking to me as we got into this, is just how kind of equated in old school. You know their home and manufacturers and the space, and then they we really have to change in July, because they were being for student has that's been one of things, that's been very fun. For me, in particular, with this effort, though, is tat with vices. Is that we really forcing function. To say we're gonna come Billy disrupt this industry, come in and rethink its start from scratch. Do something different and it's been good, because Then seeing me other companies respond and start to advance their science and engineering as well, and so I think, there's a lot of for the community as a whole, both on the science and engineering side to come together you need to advance, during because it the day. For me, I want to see kids
to go out and play sports safely. We'll be able to pick what they want to do, whether that football cocky lacrosse ever maybe that's how minutes or biking get out there and go to town but be able be safe and as a parent of young kids, I want to make sure that I feel good, let my kids playing his game. So I think all of us in this they are asked to do the same goal in working together and discontinue Of course, the envelope is gonna, be really important, very cool so before before we go. We must go to break. It, wouldn't be fair to call you, and your team vices pioneers in this area yeah. I think so disruptors day. I like that, because you know it's. One of these things were, It's a sort of authority in a brain virgin an nerdy mechanical engineers to come into football NGO. Like you get, has produced
Then a little bit different here or a lot different and really make an important change, and I'm really excited, spinner phenomenal opportune, to take surgery. Knowledge acquired over you know, life I'm of training and really bring it bring it forward. With the engineer, Listen indeed, something that we hope is gonna, be just really really important. Because of the living embodiment of our shows tagline, which is where geeks and jocks collide job man where to go, wait, wait, wait, wait! I'll bring it to life will bring it to life you, to semi, browed and the good people of vices and this era, one helmet, which you will be seeing this season in any fell more than you saw before. We ought to know why you're so dark here's the thing before I left before. We let you go I just had a brilliant idea: save your saw the headed the size of your head. No, no! No! No! Here's the deal!
Helmut that you put on your big toe when you go to sleep, so that you will never stop your toe in the middle of the night you really need to our dog. You gotta go for your own safety. Eight had outlines very dark about when it now invisible. Ink doctor we gonna do go breeder pleasures. Thank you, said. Doktor Samuel, Browed undergo people are vices. You're welcome over in Seattle, Washington we may take their bright coming. Next will get into helmet testing in the physics of collisions pouch, and that will only with a sea of sport science physicist.
By deploying besides we're talking about concussions unhomelike technology, so given of headache. I'm sorry Richard. You give me a headache, that's, one of our problems make us in the studio now to discuss. The physics of collisions. Is sea of sport signs physicist Richard Brand and Richard broken to the show, sir. You for being here. Can you give us a break down on with impacts with concussions this all different One simple thing happening when you have a collision when you have an impact that can bring a concussion that's right. I mean in american football the go collisions that cause concussions could be at twenty miles an hour you very fast, and
this can lead to head accelerations as much as A hundred jeez a hundred times acceleration of gravity Normous forces I've six hundred pounds typically on the head. And talks to from the rotations that are induced. So it's it's a dangerous sport and at that level, its estimated that probability of concussion is maybe seventy percent, if at that kind of speed up without an impact as in that insanely high insanely high, and there is plenty of evidence This is happening, and but the issue is and I'm a symbol. Disgusting what to do about it- and I have some ideas about that, but it it's the serious problem. The game is violent in there are dry.
This the NFL is trying to address it by limiting the types of impacts that are allowed and, most recently they want the players to not strike opponents when their helmet. It's been. Hours right right. This has been very controversial because the players claim that's the only way they know how to play. You know they town yet hematoma. How how much soldier shoulder any any vulnerable part What does that mean? That's how you are tired and another still teach in this, but the way you were taught was head down drive through so you put your head down and you drive through the tackle like, and so that's how its historically been in. That's what they want to stop it's a question of to what extent the
The officials will enforce that and to what extent the players will try to get all turned of methods of achieving their goal. We begin to change the game. Yes, you begin to change again. So if and if we go down the road, If we cannot do that because it takes away the intrinsic part of the game that attracts or players end and spectators. How does then science and technology come to the rescue and The day, but how does it bring forward things that will help? So we talk about tell helmet technology and and thoughts and areas that you ve been working on, that you feel have made progress and can still make progress. I believe, with better helmets the occurrence of concrete Questions can be greatly reduced. People are starting to do this.
Haven't changed since the inception of the game while they started with leather Hokosa, your site, aside from a big letter yeah at move now, there's been some progress, but not nearly enough and I think the main reason for this is this: just not enough money that is dedicated to the development of better helmets. I think with enough creativity, enough. Understanding of these science involved of trial and error. You could greatly reduce the occurrence of I know you were doing work with a baseball bat or you doing anything with helmets as well yeah, I you know to tests, would have just said me and a partner in a few months time put together a helmet that we thought would lead to improvement, not a complete prototyping. We didn't have enough money to do that, but we made a partial prototype, just the top hemisphere of a helmet.
And subjected to impacts and measured. The celebrations from these impacts on the head of a dummy and middle never talk about me like I know I was in person we'll go ahead containing K and we measured the forces transmitted through the helm added to the dummy skull of rich would be transmitted onto the human head in a real life situation and with very little time in an almost no funding. We had a twenty five percent improvement in the protective capabilities over what existed the time on the market. What I mean by that is for a given impact given hit on the helmet given speed, given mass the actual exerted force or acceleration on the skull of a player
dummy wearing that helmet was beat at least twenty five percent less than any economic. That's out there and this just in its infancy? We did not demise for the best equipment, the best computer. Simulations the best mature those to use the key to having a better helmet is to dissipate the impact energy into thermally into heat interesting, the more of the impact energy that goes into heat, the less energy will be
transmitted through the helmet on to the scale of the player and the less will be the force applied on the helmet by that impact. So now you ve said that my miniscule brain is going to work slowly. How do I get energy from an impact and super conducted through the body of the helmet not shoot flames out as hate, but two took converted into here Therefore, allow me to dissipate through that is. This is that technology available sure sure I have, insane in silicon chips with the connectivity in the last two materials that are heavily damned if you look in factory, our machine shop and there's a lot of vibrations going on it's desirable to dampen those vibrations because of the noise they created
because it affects you're, doing and eventually to bring down the building up of Rosalie, so there's material that they use to retain as an example. That is highly damped that when you have an impact on it or vibration? It does turn lot of that energy into heat trouble with that is its heavy having mature he also issues. Can you make a helmet that isn't really too heavy that absorbs that kind of heat, because the more ways you got the less chance I've got a running, twenty might not have ever run, twenty miles an hour, but you ve got less chance of being able to do your job, which is being very caught, quick Croatia, as we did with seventy, mostly athletes on the planet without doubt within enough. Are there any other ways of me? How did you get so hot, albeit are we talking ridiculously hot, precarious, cooking egg or my helmet, not not right away. Part of my problem, which you recognize
is how to dissipate the heat that you ve created the heat that you ve, taken as energy from the impact and feet. Just can't have a complete layer of damp elastic material in the helmet, because then it will just absorbed the heat and after a few impacts it will get uncomfortably hum. So you have to have holes in it.
So that he can be conducted away in principle. There are other ways to conduct the heat away. You could even have a stream of some cold material involved that will stay cold enough during the game to do the trick. Ah, you can have a fan mechanism in through the various things you can do, but largely it's a question of geometry: if the geometry of this damped elastic material, that's inserted into the helmet is chosen appropriately, then did he would be dissipated away without rising the temperature to an uncomfortable level. Chuckle sign that you ve worked on other things in other sports, offshore tennis, rackets. Yes, sir,
and base will. But some just thinking, there's a point of precaution of which you you will lose you. Will you condemn penitence racket down? We certainly at the end and similar thing with a baseball bat. Are you able to borrow from those Annie, the deuce them into the helmet situation, or is it just not viable on that? That helmet issue is much more complicated? I mean you could put a little absorbed of material on a tennis racket and get rid of unwanted vibrations for a baseball bat. You could put absorptive material in the handle to sell. You don't get a sting, that's less important now with carbon fiber bats, but when they were aluminum titanium, then this thing was an issue as well as the sound, but for the helmet, it's a more complicated problem, because you're protecting a large area and at trying to protect it object
that's extremely sensitive to accelerations. What in an impact the impacting bodies collide? So what in terms of a they tissue, he compressed against one another, and then they decompress go apart that during that compression, some of the Energy from the impact is stored as elastic energy in the spring. That energy goes right back into the head of the appeal but some of the energy is if this spring is damned goes into to heat, ok, that there would be dissipated, and that would result not only in less energy transferred to the head of the player, but it would reduce the forced, that's actually applied onto the helmet, while one one thing to realise that I think is generally realized if you apply of force on ice,
no helmet can reduce that force. Whatever is applied on the helmet is transmitted to the brain of the skull, at least of the player. What a good home can do, though, is actually reduce the forced, that's actually applied onto the outer helmet, and that's where this thermal energy dissipation comes. Let me ask you this: how come no one's ever taught thought about like taking the skull of above the player, and by that I mean artificially, so you were a kind of like a skull cap, you know or as some type of layer, tween, the helmet and the player himself, I mean one could say that that would just be part of the helmet of arms are going about it. Kind of like a liner like like like when you wear certain gloves you for like a liner on, and there you put love, and so you can handle really hot material, something like,
I mean, does that make sense or now good girl, because, as I said, any force, that's transmitted onto that liner go still gonna go through not reduce a force that applied to it. So really what you need to do. It's really about dissipation. As about spreading that force out yes spreading at over a larger area, so that we do. Does the local force application and absorbing the energy into heat so that the act, applied force is the miss is tremendously help. Is there anyway, you can then through the helmet transfer that through more of the body. Yes, I think that could be done. You could That would be a way of having the kid that's produce their dissipated without increasing the tent too much at the more for sea. Warner's, when you're playing that soldiers field on a man is
That would be an added benefit when you're in the frozen tundra of Green Bay is this I got my home. Keep me with this? Now that the truth is, though, that the impacts occur, separated by several minutes or longer so there's plenty of time for the he produced in a given impact to dissipate. It's not as if your constantly getting banged and watch the contact time for for something that could pose post play potentially end in a concussion the contact time. It's bout, a tenth of a second the longer the contact time. The better, because it spreads the force out over a longer time. It could be a twentieth of the second half of the tenth of a second short contact What sort of time after that, are you looking for trying to transfer that energy into heat
This happens during Ringo impedes yes, I saw part and parcel of that. Just at all happens together. That's right it's ok. I believe I have a solution for this and I'm just gonna go out and say it you'll be rich I hear it is bubble rap, ok Ok, this original ran. Thank you for the CEO of sport. Science here in New York has been a pleasure talking with you to Roger Heart or the Fischer Neurosurgeon of the New York Joys, your peel, the Argus snakes, don't go away, will be well aware of these. It don't matter. You don't know me out. I will know where my say we do not.
local, backed playing besides, of course, we're looking at concussions and the new home technology in football and up next Doktor Roger heartily the affair. Neurosurgeon for the New York Giants, are who better to discuss. What goes on actually goes on players brain during a collision, and of course you got to talk to her Personally I wasn't available, we did a pretext for this in so I'm really into did you hear what he had to say and you will not be disappointed, fabulous insight into what goes on coal let's check it out, we are joined by professor. Your heart from the war
Cornell Brain and Spinal Centre in New York so well by science. Thank you for having made a great pleasure, thank you kindly I'm you just described what is actually going on when a player suffers a traumatic, the head in terms of how the brain reacts. I think there is a very good right the question: what happens. Is that a mechanical impact on the head, but it doesn't always have to be. The head- could also be an impact on the body that is some translated to the head? It seems to have an impact on, the balance in the brain of electoral rights in your transmitters and dumb and especially potential. Two calcium in there seems to be a break down. The temporary breakdown off the membranes in the brain that contain certain balance between those between those electrolyte
imbalance can trigger electrifies logical changes that can result in it, prairie loss of consciousness and then over time, even in more significant changes such as such as injuries to the axons even to sell death. It's interesting. It is not just a physical impact It's a chemical impact, the finds the two. So if, if we're looking at how we address concussions, because this there's a full impact, but you can still gonna concussion from advancing blow. How How did they changed the the whole way. The brain is reacting from the two different times: the mechanically impact. Just the initial eyes, the initial reason why these chemical changes happen. The problem, not always the initially
impact the problem sometimes, is really the brain is trying to do in trying to accomplish by preparing itself, and I believe that the problem is that these imbalances, these chemical imbalances, that of data being triggered by the mechanical impact have to be repaired and the brain is trying to do that. By using a lot of energy to restore the balance and that led to an energy crisis in the brain, and that's why players or individuals any individual. What has happened nor head injury. Advisory super sometimes for hours, sometimes even forty, is after the initial injury and that vulnerability is really caused by either the brains attempt to repair store, Himmel spaces in the brain, raising the brain is reacting immediately, It's not going to shut down and reboot. It reacts immediately that that's that
credible, but I shouldn't be surprised. Assessing an athlete, others my thirty one markers for concussion, any studies case, how many of those markets doesn't athletes have to present with. For you to say, that's a concussion it's a very good question and our understanding has really somewhat expanded. The years in Seoul. For as we already realised that there is no good issues of a concussion and therefore the diagnosis of a pumpkin is so difficult. We used to look at few things and there was the devil grading there the grating schemes that were we're trying to greet the severity of a concussion? It turns out that you did not that easy. All. We know right now was that it takes some type of mechanical impact, and the brain under in the body react to that, and then patients Displays signs of symptoms and a host of sound
there are many more than thirty. Those signs and symptoms can can be cognitive, so people can have lost consciousness. That cannot work memory loss It can be emotional, physical, obviously nausea, vomiting, headaches and so forth are very calmly seen off the concussion or they can have much more subtle problem? that can also be very significant, all for example, sleep, disturbances and so forth. Can be emotional cognitive, physical or sleep. Parents can be affected, so you got you gonna have to All those things together with you, initial impact and then have to figure out well, did this player with this? this individual really have a concussion, or is it something what's going on, so we really. We really look at so many different factors, and it is, sometimes a real challenge, to figure out the the severity and and and the impact of off of a concussion is almost
once you explaining like that, I have even more admiration for the medical staff around organizations like the giants. When you got a factory, all of those components If a player has what may be suspected to be a concussion? What is the protocol from taking him or her out of their business again and for how long yard. I think that, Those are very important things to talk about an and what has really evolved again over the last five to ten years. Is that all our threshold to diagnose a concussion the treaties have the suspicion that somebody has a concussion has been Lord and We are much more likely nowadays to assume that a player has a concussion, because we look very very carefully a lot of these signs and symptoms and not only that now, obviously during a game
you all, you have. The additional ability to review in a moment since you can look at the video tapes, you can go back and sometimes that becomes very important to really be able Look at the player right at the moment, the impact or immediately afterwards, and that helps us sometimes truly make that clear, decision did a play? A habit I shouldn't or maybe not we have- is the games. Now we have a very, very dense network of independent or on affiliated consultants who watched the players so again, We are much more likely. I think nowadays, to really accurately diagnose play a dream. Then we were years ago and if that happens, I usually know that player. Removed from the game and has very carefully examined, and that will either confirm you'd our diagnosis and then we'll make a decision is this? Is it
you're concussion, and does this warrant really removing the player from the gate? interest. You say that because that's the first time I heard any forcing organization, but I'm gonna leave organization? I think you're, referring to the giants, the would have a team posted to in game identify any potential issues, so is that is there an initiative. The giants are taken on themselves or is that protocol around the Unifil but the giants have been very proactive for many years in trying to diagnose and dump, and accurately to pay due to patients or players with concussions, but and fell as an organization of the last five to six years has really taken. This a different level, meaning that they have invested lot of resources in in getting the teams of specialists are on the field during the game. Now we ve got multiple now
Rogers Slash, neurosurgeons were watching were present every game watchword every moment of every game. We ve got eighty cease or in the boost to monitor very closely. What's going on the on the field, so so it's quite remarkable and- and I think from a professional perspective when I met game. It's pretty amazing to see the the detail goes into assessing these players, but this has obviously involved because of the overall. Increased awareness of the potential severity of concussions. This has evolved over the last five six years, Enter has really resulted. I think in a very remarkable improvement for us to diagnose an end then hopefully also treat and addressed concussions early on how far
funny thing to do, is take tackling out of the game, and then it doesnt become for all become something else. So I can see that being the answer. How much further can we oh with these sort of areas, addressed within changing the intrinsic value of the game of football. I think this is you know, is a fascinating topic to discuss and that life is change in all things. All the time. Football has changed, drama Mickey over the years and over the decades hit if you look at soccer in all their tons of changes since in soccer and other sports now, it's almost more like a philosophical question. I think that's what's gonna be with what's gonna be important is to not only to change the rules of the game, but then also to to join- demonstrate that this change has actually benefit, has a positive impact on the plea,
as on their house on their families and so forth, are thinking You can show that then any type of rule change will be much more acceptable, not only to the players to the organizations but also to the individuals watching. The game and and and the fat salt saw an that's kind of what we're doing We were collecting data, so we're not just changing. The rules will also really collecting data and we're trying prove that whatever rule changes we implement, but we but and fell the giants and so forth really lead to greater safety and health of the players, something that's the other thing that people dont really talk about. If once, if you can show them the benefit to the house, as in any type of real change, will be better accepted. Ok out of the players themselves. Reactor of day have they actually being proactive and come to progressing doctors and nurses like yourself instead? Is there a way for us?
Is there something we can do a bay they joined in this? Sir? These discussions, debate, absolutely in individual players have but then all other players? Association works very closely with the NFL, for example, they did the study, comparing the helmets in our deal You know there are so many different types of almonds out there and there was a stir. That was really supported by both organisations that looked at the quality of the elements in their way, well to eliminate a number of how much they were just not good enough based on biomechanical testing, and now the players are not allowed to use those types of Helen. Because the understanding is that those houses I'll be safe. So there's lots of far activity going on. I went engineering so equipment education, but then
enforcement of rule changes, some of those three those those three fields together will really make football much safer, we ve been speaking to a couple of people on the show, one of them Doktor Samuel Brow. Do you may know a neurosurgeon up in Washington and hasn't affiliation with the sea hawks? both these devices, these euro, one helmet, which is a new kind of all aid helmet, which has been proven under that NFL, had health challenge. To be the safest. Do you think that is the way What is the solution? As we ve been discussing more a holistic challenge, not just the head itself Why I'm a big believer in holistic approach, she's not only for concussion, but also for speed and other health related problems, and I think that a thing it's definitely gonna be
holistic? The helmet alone is not going to make a difference because if you just look at the helm can use a helmet as a weapon. We know that solar energy so so, regardless the helmet alone is important, but it's not gonna be solution. It has to be embedded in the hall. System approach and again, that is education, education of the players of the because of the trainers at every level of the public, it has to be certain rule, modifications or rule changes that have been implemented recently. But all over the years and then for sure it has the engineering- and that is so that has to do with how much safety the mechanical, if the safety of Hell its, but also other devices that can be introduced into sports. All of the unifil organizations on this page and the giant Sorry you a bit of a field leader at the moment. I am
Philip advised, but I think that the I think that the giants have eight a tradition. Really spearheading safety, especially when it comes to concussions one of the first football organizations that had a port of call in place for how to deal with Comcast players that dates back. We were before This was really on on the radar screen of any of the major, football organizations publication? now we ve done now. You ve done a number of research studies over the years, looking how can we better? I'd knows concussions, I am making the beginning that the challenge with concussions is really have you act. The diagnosis We did some research on how we can use special MRI scanners, for example, to hopefully better
Agnes players at risk of concussion or players who had a concussion already. So I think the giants have have had made the becomes the ocean and in the field and continue to do so prefers Thank you. So much. You joined the group of gas. We ve done today That is shown, yes, there's the concur. It is an issue, but that those such positivity, going towards helping diminish. A hundred percent so but addressed the situation very positive. Why so Thank you so much data. Thank you. It's great pleasure fabulous talking to professor heartily there and he The fact of his looking at it holistically he's not just saying you got to do with the head cause. That's where the brain is and that's where the issues are now. Everything is being this is very much going in the right in the right direction. The NFL has made a lot of new rule changes. You know me, but you know like
not just about the collision or the the head, or it's about all of this. You know even like snapping of the head. You know all that is what we now fail any telltale signs with they see something on a reply. They will go to that player immediately and find out Well, listen! It's variants going in the right going in the right direction. The NFL has made a lot of new rule changes. You know me, but you know like he said it's not just about the collision or the the head, or it's about all of this or even like snapping of the head. You know all that is what we know feel? Is this from looking at this from the outside I understand that such a will to do the right thing right. The other thing. He was saying that we will advise We will present information and then the powers that be able decide on how or if they change rules. Believe me, they were
I mean you know you're talking about this- is such a big deal that, I think, is really the whole future of the of the league is hinged upon this issue in in some way, and I really don't think that I don't think that they would look lightly in any way shape- or I can't imagine I mean hopefully artlessness- have heads- mine's challenged and are now aware that there is a not more being done than possibly they saw was being We smack through in the air with Malice- and hopefully you didn't get a concussion, couldn't put it better myself. That's our show. How give enjoyed it and we'll catch him. Excite lockdown lay I'll drop the organs
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-19.