Aerodynamics, Newton’s Laws, drafting, power to weight ratio, nutrition, technology and more! Get smarter about the Tour de France with hosts Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly and their guests Lance Armstrong, Neil deGrasse Tyson and sports physicist John Eric Goff.Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Please subscribe to our channels on:Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360TuneIn: https://tunein.com/playingwithscienceGooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjqSoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-scienceStitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-scienceNOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/physics-tour-de-france-repeat/Photo Credit: Credit: Amaury Sport Organisation (A.S.O.)
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our talk. Radio, dot net, slash cosmic crews meal, the grass trace of your personal astrophysicist, star, talk and stitches pleased to present to you a new show where the universe and sports color and now I hosts Amsterdam, nice. I am Gary alive and we are the hosts of flame with science today, all primacy, we ride so Philip you bought a bottle
oh, it is centuries old and said to be the most efficient means of transport known to humankind, priest pull, really unwieldy, chant somewhere to sit and something to steer, was yes, very simple, but not so because most cycling is now one of the most sophisticated sports on the planet and its low, and I mean loaded with lots of tat, but don't worry, and I'm going to miss out on that. We have a whole another show, there's gonna be devoted to the attack of cycling or yet before now will be throwing the physics of the tour de France, which I It is a is a test of man's need for need for speed, while not falling off I'm more twists and turns and devious strategies than an Agatha Christina. I see what you did there like that to explore this
Lesser known world. We sent the intrepid meal the grass Thyssen to meet with what some might say is a controversial figure in the sport. We know him simply as lands arms and to help us to further into the amazing science of cycling. Is Eric of Physics, Professor Lynchburg College, author of gold medal six, the signs of sport. All round cycling guru. And we hear about how are you man thanks for coming bad, great error? You and we now good, been huge, cycling. Guy sure I love cycling. Ok are I you know we have. Near the grass size and who is doing an interview with Lance Armstrong, you're gonna, be here and close to that. I'm going to ask you to respond to a, but before we go into the show. I think it's important that we do address the fact that we are talking to Lance Armstrong, some of you, there are listening right now are like why what's up with dad disguised
This is done that here too litigate those things, the one thing they is for sore and Eric you as a huge cycling fan, will either confirm or deny upstairs if you're talking, somebody about cycling. You can't talk. Anyone more knowledgeable, then Lance Armstrong. I agree. You're not gonna win seven toward a France's in a row without know something about the sport absolutely show so lonesome strong and doping is a sentence that we have heard over a number of years, but I don't think we are going to swerve it. We will become back in a future showed and addressing exactly that topic? So absolutely no yeah science has dropped out on that where we're not gonna do anything because we're gonna actually talk about doping and performance enhancement, a light colored performance enhancement. You know, I'm not a dope are smart enough to enhance my performance.
Eric every year. You model the tour France that must consist of a number of different layers and approaches apart from just say that guy I see him now, the one on the left he's the one that's gonna win. So how you go about modeling, full three red weak rice like the tutor frozen, so that toward a frauds put sullen line that stage profiles the twenty one stage profiles and as a starting point for us to model the terrain of each stage, even and what whereafter is the winning time for every stage were not trying to model a specific cyclist, her team. We want to know what the winning times be given nunneley performance on each stage, is there a designated algorithm equation that you can choose Paris to day and you push through and outcomes. They answer well, there is, but I took a long time to write the code to do
in other words you not selling like their ale. It's your college or keeping it there's nothing to hide its that we use the laws of physics. New laws of physics are pretty good for modeling cycling, bright right. Well, you know The most important aspects of cycling, of course, is aerodynamics and Neil digress. Thyssen. We said earlier, sat down with meal with Lance Armstrong, that Neil Armstrong, that's a whole nother interview that happened, cycling, yeah,
where Neil Armstrong and meal, the grass size but less Armstrong, and they all sat down the talk about aerodynamics. Let's hear what they had to say from when you began writing to when you retired did the aerodynamic. So the sport change. Well, yes, something that they are dynamics as little. Your body still your body, but the biggest thing that changed was in the late eighties. They invented a whole new type of handlebar which changed you know and then in the late eighties or in the mid eighties, you would have been sitting. I like this. They took which originated in the travel on. They took the idea of that and they said. But what? If we and the guy who invented this is again in bone linen and he was an old ski racer, but also reeboks, and it worked for Scott, the ski manufacturing, poles and season- and he said well what, if, instead of
I wouldn't ski down the hill like this. What if in a scare whose tucked like this, they would have, we rode like that, so that that suggest that area away the aerodynamic drag all this. My arms outside everything is every now and then another see, look was called the Skype BAR and it looked like a downhill ski razor, out posing like you were out of everything we have seen in so that revolutionized, the aerodynamics of draft on initially and then moved in recycling, which was harder transition because they were so traditional. They saw these bars and these as they say in a way a no way, I'm right now. Well, they prove so much faster than actually Greco. Mine was the first point, one the tour de France and nineteen eighty nine on these new airlines sakes that I mean that was the tipping point for that bar
then, when the cone head, how much those those were around for a long time, those around before the bars and then came? And then you know people try to make an aerodynamic frame, and then I remember in the Gaza tubes became these there very there.
Oval shaped you can, even though they are for all over plan. A british guy went when they use year when the governing body was a low, more lax on the double triangle thing: a british guy and nineteen. Ninety six by the name of Crisp Boardman set the our record, which is on the trail of the hour wreck, which is like the ultimate asthma that I mean you're indoors is no wind, there's no drafty. It's like deals with, so he decided banked. So you just its banks at thirty, not against you back. So he said he broke the our record on and whereby is called the Lotus bike. It was not a double triangle. You can look it up and then we can go to the lab it. It was a very. This is to me that if the sports it ok get, you guys evolve technology to everyone. That's what this war would look like. You'd have that that that's what a bite frame would look like, but the Lotus, the Lotus for which you your audience will see it will get yet so, but then they backed off that went back to the double
angle, but you'll see how how radical it looks. So obviously he went nobody's ever what you're best our I've never done in atomic you'd, like a lot of great hours of my life look at that land lighted. Back inside does he loves the road ass, interesting Eric that they borrowed from other sports you'd, you listen to that. First bit, the discuss bar comes out a skiing. Lotuses british car manufacturer, that a formula one race team cycling is being born. From all these different sports in an attempt to get that state at faster and why not? We all follow the same laws of physics. Righto scares facing the same kind of air that a cyclist is gonna face. We can learn a lot from other sports by seeing what technologies advanced in other sports.
That applies to cycling sooner work without knobs goes there. What is the, what does the optimum to increase airflow for a for a biker. Aside from you know the top, which makes perfect sense, sit down hills gear their there. Actually, only are they talked, but there as low to the ground as possible. So what what is the optimum means of increasing airflow for by cyclists? Where are we about a resistance from? Were children stick our hands out the car window. We get into airplane mode. In the hand, is you know, sir, that way we have an library little dragon than we turn it. Ninety degrees and all of a sudden we're getting smacked by the air and the handle fall so we know is either way. Eric is why I only have one hand, but and her thoughts, were bringing my team, sir. Thank you. Go, get em joking,
and drive on the other side of the road in England, then you can lose the other hey. I re vote encouraging uptown encourages us now. Am I right when an chuck loves this term? Skin friction. Is that the technical, the cyclist term for the problem that you face as well as a competitor? what what you're trying to do is reduce the area. So when you get into that tucked position, you are reduced the amount of area that the Eric and hit gases author, if you're gone, really slow. The air resistance might just be a couple of pounds on you. If you're going really fast down hill, it could be fifteen. Sixteen pounds and remember: fifteen pounds is the way to the bike. So you you ve, got the weight of a bowling ball being pulled back behind you here resistance, so you can really feel it. It's really slowing it down. So, as New said, we get the cone head helmets. Then I get the super slippery light crow body suit.
I get really small booties for from My shoes, nice, reduce all of the wind was. How much can I gain a lowest in the time trials? They're allowed aware this very. Sleep clothing and in arid and am equipment they got the back, we'll is covered and you can reduce dragged by about twenty percent. You got the teardrop helmet right. You know you get a cyclist, like I think, of Tony Martin from Germany on the bike. You just absolutely almost gives himself completely two dimensional. In that thing the waking oppresses knees and as it is the body that amazing thing to see that they can reduce by your twenty percent or so that the drag area that they feel ok at one question Eric why only the re wheel is covered and the front will has the spoke. So we have a system is prefer
so when the air is coming around the object? Think of the water going around a boat, you have a wake in the back and that wake is taking away some energy that you have. So when you close off that back wheel and you the teardrop shape your allowing the air of flow a little farther back in the wakes? Not quite as chaotic? You don't have quite as many swirls Sylvia. So what is it? energy just just just to clarify what you're saying is behind the bike. What happens is the the air turbulence? The eighth, like a curl so that girl, that curl of turbulence happens much farther back. I am the bike itself, freeing the height to move faster. If you just have a round object and you got are fully mad at you can get all these swirls behind it right in the air and that's taking energy away from the from the ball at say. But if you can tear drop the object, the Airwolf,
so much smoother behind it and you don't have quite as many swirls others less drag on the object and now what what are these bees have? We got to a place where we were kind of reaching an optimum speed. What are the kind of speech that we're talking about when we look at these aerodynamic advancements. Well, you go back a couple of years and the first day you had Roma Dennis setting a timetable record now? This was only about eight and a half miles. Only I willingly. I say that the guy averaged about five miles an hour on the bike? Wow I mean that was an incredible speed were talk it over fifty five kilometers and our sustain that for you That's a maid! That's that's it! That's insane! While yes super! well listen. Let us jump into the next component, which I'm sure is key when it comes to physics and lands, the strong, a meal tat it about drafting wits,
What is soon is pretty much the old dagger and sport, but let's hear what they had to say. So is talk about drafting souls and one of the most important parts of this, so presumably there's some speed below which drafting is not useful. Right. That would be like one mile anything more than any more the station arabic keep in mind that the speed is important to talk about, but the wind is, if you, if, if you say ten miles an hour, that's not very fast, but if the wind is fifty miles an hour in your face ten thousand hours pretty fast. So your draft, it's just it, goes up exponentially, but the more intense the windows, the direction of the wind right. Obviously, if it's right in front of you, you stay right behind the rider, that's in front of you. If the windows from the left and new hinge over to the right, so you just find its various this. So I say NASCAR you find that sweet spot of where they are
just an that's and then, of course, that just as multiplied ass, if there's one rider in front of you, you have a draft. If there are a hundred riders in front of you you're, not even peddling does not, if you just going to suckle all right in the end, the partial vacuum behind the moving mass site, but it all of this needs new. All of this meets thing about this right. If, if there's one guy in front of you, your draft is is not as good as we're gonna, four hundred, but your chances of crashing. If you're a hundred deep verses number. Two much greater, so you gotta figure out how does all plays? I got it. How much do I want to sit in this group and gets suck the long, as you said, verses risk a crash. You have to think about all of these things. It end in that's what goes into positioning the group more Important things you know what Love him all knows him. When Lance Armstrong speaks, we listen.
It just talk so sensibly and so intelligently about that, so, Professor Eric Gulf is the equation. Can you calculate the sweet spot for drafting the cycle. Rice like the tour de France, where you can find it very hard to predict because you don't know where the winds gonna be. And its changing and as the roads turn, see their orientation with with the wind is gonna change so, as as land said, you're gonna slightly move laughter, slightly move right depending on how the road in the wind change, but the idea you're trying to get less air hitting you. So when you utopian behind somebody, well, Sir, a couple of other writers, you're gonna, reduce the amount of air hitting you tell how much of it. In strategy applies here and drought. Because this this diagonal move. Down the road of a whole bunch of cyclists. If you're out there
from them is no one there to work with. You is sucking the insects and you take up earlier. That pressure is. Is there a designated windbreaker, so you we are going to have somebody who's going to do the lead. I mean you're going to see like a Chris Froome sitting in the back, enjoying the drafting a little more than some of his teammates. I mean you're going to get the the main cyclist. You know the Lance Armstrong's, you know those those powerful cyclist are going to be the ones getting help from the teammates and they'll cycle in and out. If you watch a team time They will change use at the front in and out throughout the stage interesting, how many punch other Germany Punjab's fifty km. Fights break out during a section of the rice weathers drafting because there must be the real clamour to get that part of it,
good initial on my right when it breaks away in that sort of formats yeah, I'm in it, that the political self it mean all the cyclist to her in the mid or enjoying that the drafting and then the back and then, of course, to be fair. I mean they're gonna be wanting to cycle in and out through the front to take their turn. You know pulling units and it's not a free lunch. You know unless you're just sitting in the back the whole time. Further thought so on drafting, so let's check out what they have to say in this next clip right, bikes or draft offer people. So I know what drafting is intellectually accusation calculated, but I want to test this subtle and I don't recommend people do this. Cause was a little bit dangerous, but I'm not gonna be good. I so when I first got,
we will do. This cause was a little bit dangerous, but I'm not gonna be good. I so when I first got the kind of car that tells you can guess, mileage you're getting right now, it's standard, but this is a big deal. This data that I can now see at the car is doing, and so, if you, if you really flooring it, your guess miles drops you're getting two miles again, because you really spewing out the gas to end if you'd coasting downhill, you're you're here for those who, like infinite, because you're moving and you're not present the battle at the central so but on level ground. You get the accurate measurement of year of your miles per gallon. Ok, so I decided to pull up behind a truck and I got closer and closer to the truck nine kind of an unsafe closeness to it
and while I was there, I just watched the gas mileage go up. I was getting twenty miles a gown thirty miles ago, fifty miles out sixty miles again and then I was on level ground. That's why I felt like I was just floating in the cars of fascinating bit of metrics there, but think about the times that somebody's been on a road trip than this exact in an innovative. They passed the exit for the gas station and the light comes on and all of a sudden there not find a gas station. The smartest thing they can do, neither they're trying to figure out. Where is the next gas station? They can't turn around there. They don't know if it's ten miles or fifty miles. The smartest thing they can do is do exactly what you do just get as close as you can do anything wheeler and just get sucked the longer until you get to the gas station. I've done them, you I thought
discovered a new thing that I wasn't trying to figure out the actual effect of draft I'm just trying to get the gas station so so drafting so so blows aid to you. Now you just you suggest for other thing right right, not to win a race. You can draft and running the olympic Marathon. They running so fast thing about that. Their running but there are somebody's gonna, somebody's gonna, Roman and while some he's gonna run a two hour marathon, that's thirteen miles an hour, yeah yeah, it's almost informative! Why that is asked, so it thirteen miles an hour, I don't care if you, if you're crawling runnin ride in your draft and so that you see those guys they all is that pack affirmed its impact how did not running a breast to one another did not even running in a line running and like a teardrops, just like just like a bankers So we look one thing: yes, if we go on a road trip, Neil is not allowed to drive. Yes, that doesn't sound like the best road safety I've ever heard.
You are without doubt. We also learned that neither Neil digress ice in nor lands on strong are good at gauging the mileage of a car so like so what other applications of drafting do you see in other sports Eric or have you have you studied that most certainly NASCAR mean any kind of sport with the cars sing. You're gonna see them talk very, very close knit behind each other, and that's where you could get into some fights. If someone's drafting too much, they can trade a little paint in their exchange of words. So to speak, to try to get somewhere so the difference we are talking about short circuit and something that the tour de France, even in. If you took just one of the stages from the tour de France, you gotta an ellipse economy full shape circuit in NASCAR. This it's a higher the distances, a shorter house. Begin to calibrate how, when
and using that sweet spot well in here, and I at an otter race. Of course, you gotta time at right for when you're gonna go to a pit, stop and refuel, and if you can draft long enough and maybe get one extra lap and before you have to get to a pit, stop- that could be the difference between winning and losing the race. I want to stage like the tour de France, where you're going through mountains and maybe you're burning, seven or eight thousand calories during that five hours in the saddle, every little tiny percentage you can pick up in a reduction and drag is going to make you all the stronger for the finish.
Well, you know out next we're going to actually explore the power of output and energy, so will have more of NEO Lance and their interview on playing with science. When we return to the bicycle in passports,
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cycling, races featuring in the grass Thyssen's interviewed, Lance Armstrong and one of our best friends, Professor Eric Gulf author of Goldman Physics, the science of sport and physics, Professor Lynchburg College, Eric Good, have you on board now you ve got this modeling for the tour de France. Ok, we're getting to the point where power to weight ratio and adjusting if you won't power, just get me. At the end of the line back as only six four five, two hundred fifty pounds or the power you need, but it doesnt current work like that. Does it now it does when you're on a bicycle you're not only having their transport, the bicycle, you have to transfer yourself, so the heavier cyclists do really well on the time trials that are flat and the flat stages they ve got the big thigh muscles. They can really power or the finnish, but their woefully inadequate. When it comes to the climbing in the mountains in the Alps and parodies right,
I guess that, because they have to haul that mass up the mountain so that the nepalese and fruits of the world do a lot better. There a lot smaller frames, lower mass cyclists, sixty five kilograms, or so they can get up much better than an eighty two kilograms flat stage, specialist, so it's kind of like like a pull up contests if you're a guy two guys who have relatively equal strength, but one guy lot lighter than the other he's probably gonna. How to do more, pull ups, that's right! Maybe if they're only doing one, the guy, that's pretty strong is going to be okay, but if they have to do you know fifty the one pulling a lot less mass is you gonna do a little better rowdy get the little skinny guy principles for the power to that you're gonna need for twenty one days in the Saddle Ryan running around France, while there certainly get any data like they're burning over six thousand calories.
Age for a lot of these stages out. They have to consume a lot of those calories and maintain that that equal, every em they don't want to lose too much weight when their when they're on the tour de France well when it comes to power and rate ratio. We haven't photographs, sizing and Lance Armstrong talking about this very thing. So, let's check out a clip from there end of you when you were competing at repeat how much we thinking about your nutrition, so you would have cultures telling absolutely yet, not so much nutritionists, but we had coaches that the most important thing for us and at that time was the power that we could produce, which interest sale. Lay enough early in my career, we couldn't measure power, he measured. Immeasured heart rate are rate of perceived exertion. How are you? How do I feel how hard? Oh, my god, that's how you measured things and then the power meter came along and you can actually measure watts at the crank that chain.
Everything. So then you knew how strong it where you are guessing. You weren't timing yourself, you weren't racing somebody as we have always called the organic yeah, so you know exactly you know if you ve slacken, not I mean, oh, my god, and literally overnight, the entire pellets on sport went from heart rate to watch and so that changed everything changed the training and change the ratings at all, and so, but we knew you knew how much power you could produce, which is number one variable, and you knew how much weight in the morning. So you know much away, that's just it. We call it powered away so going up the hill, you can produce. Lots anyway. Pattern sixty pounds, those laws of physics, it that's right, that's what is theirs. It is laws of physics, but you always go back to the fact that there's luck there, all their tactics, there's Roxy, have always
about that, but obviously, if you don't have that magic number on powered away, then who cares about the luck? So it matters if you drop a pound and salute without losing the power yet absolutely or you or you could lose a little power and lose more weight, even more waits, its power weight ratio ratio goes that's right. You know in in in in aerospace engineering. Our version of that is what what is it costs to put a pound of anything into orbit. You know that if no idea, ten thousand or to propound of anything ok in orbit so you're payload, if you shave, ounces off their payload, that matters catch and then you dont want chubby astronauts coherent to space, because if this is the cost of the of that, so you just factor all this in, and it is important that you are in good shape than you have materials that come at all all
carbon fiber to examine all of these things. So it's not your weight is the way to the bicycle. It's it's a package deal package deal you're, going up the hill attached to the bicycle, so, yes, you could use. You could have some guys that you know what I'm gonna have deserted. All your long parameter somehow find two pounds off my bike right, but the blank treat bigotry chocolate cake, but but then the sport of a new carbon fiber by reach we cannot set within the sport, regulated the weight of the bike lanes they'd. They said the horse racing it. They set it up, they put led in the pact in the pocket to putting a have liked the jockey. I didn't know that yeah, but the bike could never be lighter than six point. Eight kilos toll so you're gonna die just round fourteen pounce really like that's very light, but you can't you could you could make a ten pound bank if you want, I wouldn't right it, but you could do. Could theoretically do that
kind of heavy I'd be so I wouldn't either. I wouldn't do that, but so everybody had a six point: eight kilo bike. So then the rider had to get skinnier and skinnier and lighter so, where do we break the news to lance that there's? No such thing as luck, How does it me? What are you talking about by the way? I don't? I don't, yet what he means when he's like, so he was about power to weight ratio right and you as you, you know, as a scientist, what that is. Ok, where does luck come involves, ensure person who follow cycling. What what exactly? Could he be talking about details? certainly if you're cycling in all said near tire, blows out you bad luck. I see now I'll, get it now you're behind somebody who you know clips cyclist in front of that right laws in an accident than ye. I mean they're alive. What I would have thought? What he's talking about is misfortune, as evidenced by
before seen things. Okay, like what you just said so at the horseman superstition. Hence diesel process, bad luck, luck right mind of unearthly, it would go to bad luck. Professor disagrees because there's no such thing, but in a sportsmen's mind, that's where they go to. Ok, if you have some crazy, on the side of the road use, the internet browser you know, yeah. That's that's! Bad luck to endeavour with pitchfork nobody has raised. The toy here was the devil benefits for the dead. There's a guy comes out and red Devil, so it's got a three pronged fork right and am. I right Eric if you'd our cycles quickly as he likes. He comes with that folk and there are superheroes and there are people restrained like times square grace. I produced value for money in Times square accepted by the way I'll. Do really allow somebody in a devil costume, what they pay for on the sidelines of a race une. Oh, what is Add to that can't be a good sign, but just might go faster.
That is more incentive in itself that are seen as motivation. So when France is discussing about hey. I can have an way was news, mind straight to chocolate, cake, blame. Ok, I am with a million. Let me put the chocolate cake, Adela, better context here, so you know that our same before that you could get six or seven. Eight thousand calories burn, not a really long uphill, mountaineer type stage. So think about this. What a twenty one stage raise a cyclist might burn over a hundred two hundred and ten thousand calorie. Oh, my goodness, None calories. A is a nice energy unit, a tick tax about a calorie, but let me make it a little bit easier. A big MAC is five hundred fifty calories, so that average is ten big macs per stage. So if you want to know what is tour DE cyclists burns on average per stage, think
in big macs wow, that's pretty amazing without fries and that without rights, as this is not the whole meal that what they are using the fuel themselves, but no, if you have picture of how much there actually Bernie first stage. Do you actually sit there when you're modeling two stages, the times The structures within the power to white ratios of each team with individual riders. What we do is we take what the elite could do on a given states were not actually looking at a specific cyclists. We're looking with their research is telling us that the elite can do on a flat stage mountain stage on a time trial and we're trying to predict the winning time, and I actually put these predictions one day in advance, blog and we just stick our necks out, see our close. We get each day at school man much further consignments take the power to White Russia. We what is it
but the asymmetric chain rings this son of elliptical shape where you you trying to decrease the number of dead spots in the peddling of a right to increase the power output. Does that come into play? Sure I mean any also have these really big chain. Ratios where you get. You know someone like Tony Martin using a big chain where you get a big wheel and from a little window back rarely generate the speed you mean he's a chain ratio. I think, if I tried it, I don't know if I could get down the street street on a bike centipedes, it's got such a huge ratio, but that its very efficient for him he's not wasting pedal motion, one, as you said this dead, so in the end, the peddling. Are we going to see the running bodies allow lighter white frames with equal strengths, entry into the mainstream, an elite racing and is there any detriment to having a bite
Let's, let's say you had a bite that could day three pounds or six pounds is there is any drawback to having a bike that light there is and think about the football tackling american football tackling. So if you try to avoid being tackled, you you stay low to the ground, you what your center mass to be low. Well, if you're bicycle is really light, that's moving the center mass up because you ve got your body on top of it right and that's gonna, make it less stable. Your Europe at your chances of tipping over gonna go up, so they may lay allow it to go down a little bit, but if they start noticing more crashes coming in, then their obvious you're gonna have to bring it back up again. So when you talk about this, this power? We ratio, and I feel that these guys me, how is it that there are able to get? Are they feeling on the girl, because here's what I'm thinking if you need,
six thousand calories to get through a stage. I write like yours killing yourself literally live throughout this. Damn thing like: let's stop at a burger king on the way you know do they have their own on the course that can we just drive through, but no you're you're, definitely like literally you're, killing yourself with this guy, exertion, how do you get calories an you before you get it and this thing when you watch the Torah fraud, you see that they go through these feeds stations and they'll get bags with these various energy bars protein bars various drinks that they have the supply them very high collar. They bars in some cases and you'll see them eating, while their cycling, they're they're, taking their food with them. They're getting the bags with the food in it and their eating all throughout the race means that an absolute they'll took a bar. Another, their jersey and then eat it. You know in an hour's time or something so they're trying to pace when their eating as well as nice as there
has there been any thing the governing body has done to give the tea the scientists themselves an opportunity to improve things within this particular spectrum. Well, certainly when the chain employ more science than they have to go to the governing body and say you know we ve developed a new house matter, about the new shoe or if you watch the time trials, you don't even see a traditional set of handlebars. So every time set improved, they have to go to the governing body and say you know what you think about this, and if it makes the cycling faster and more entertaining to watch the cycling body is likely to say go for it, so that you just can't come up with something on your own and say, like you know, hey, this is what we're going to do. You know like I just I had the newest shoe. I'm gonna, where it myself like it, looks like the Pope's. You it's red. It's very far
noble, and I'm just I'm drawn that on. Like you, you can't do that on your own, well, that that she's gonna work greater Pope Mobile, but probably not a bicycle Ok from programme bills to the bright cam, we're gonna take one of next week More fascinating science and we will get into strategy and the unpredictability sticker
I can understand it back. Every girl book called cock of all those who wanted to get you out of my dad. You probably don't buy for combined Hungary. Riley himself might lose this play with science. Yes, it has and would be discussing the physics of the tour de France between Neil Digress Titans interview with the one and only lawns Armstrong still with us. We video call is Professor Eric Gauze author of gold metaphysics. The science of sport is one element of the sport. You can't really predict with science, and you will see that is team struck,
jeez Eric? Can you predict with science attained strategy or not Is that party or modeling to it? It's not a big part of the model, because we don't have access to the teams in and we don't have access to their strategy so that where our model does better or it will be on mountain stages, where the cyclist tend to get more isolated guides. Hence the strategy's much more important to flatter street stages when they're in the Palatine, when their cycling in now there's a higher chance of a crash once they get on their own word, we're doing a little better with the model we more time at an individual cyclists kind of alone. On the mountain where those speaking strategy and unpredictability. Let's check out this clip with near the grass
I still am lamps Armstrong on this very topic. Forgive me for not thinking about by greasing as a team sport, because you and select others rise up and there the Marquis poster boy for whatever it is Tell me how important team strategy is no way to even think about it. I'm just curious that if the tour de France is two thousand five hundred miles, roughly say that roughly what it is, I'm alone this like New York to allay right has a long way, but I'm alone rights of people think about an individual winner of the event, but I'm actually alone for probably of the two thousand five hundred miles eighty miles so in the individual time trials, and maybe in the off chance that year alone, in a break away or you win alone on the top of the mountain
not so whatever percentage that is. Yours is tucked in with your guys, and when I say would you got what you say alone you mean isolated, so the camera sees you and no one third set heroic shire all like getting when, on the other, an end in a long shot. There's dues back their hack at him with a half mile back but when I say tucked in with those guys dooming drafting, but I could say I need a waterfall raincoat. I need some more food. I get a flat tire cars not close, I'm taking your will, so it's just I just did they do area mainly to really just gonna sit back there, and so the team is an organs even
its healing itself alive. I could, if I, if I know which team made I know which teammates by fits me, the best of the Bite Briggs and their cars, not close I'd take his back. He stand on the side of the road along. I didn't know that. That's because you're, the man, that's cuz, you're the team leader, but every team has a team That happened to him. You know, given your bike to ease disaster, wait there's ways there. I didn't know that ok level say that socks ok is awful. There is no
That is not a theme sport by the way Eric. I know this is like your favorite sport man. I know you totally into this, but that is not a team sport where one guy gets to be a prima donna and everybody has to do is bidding me to water bottle. Want you catch all. What about George, you notice, what I'm saying I dont get is filled. Why is why is it that this is set up, so some are better and others- and some are there to serve some other to lead- you ever lead rider, see you're, not cut out to be a team butler. Now this is You are absolutely right and I have no health has clearly been black either. Absolutely not era is nine. Does not members of the thing? Ok, that correct Eric and if you're, not team leader like Lance your domestic, yes, your ear,
You have a role to play and like this, because a prism me off right that how we got add, please get there, you consider each hd. Obviously you gotta, have you know it's later. You're gonna have a crisp room for one team. You don't need skier, something and you're gonna have a cyclist. You were gonna, be helping him beyond the Palatine. There's a cyclist takes off who's. Gonna try to get ahead of the Palatine. Maybe one of your teammates Esta chasing down and the thing is there trying to set you up if you're a mountain cyclists, for example, to get into that last big climb? They wanna get you down there, you wanna, be you know plenty a calories. Anyway, you got your water, you ve got their safely. You got there and good. Time and now you're the studies. Can I go up the mountain and get that big finish the big climb, our guy? I'm really listen. Don't I just don't get me wrong. I understand her by has a role to play on a team, but what I'm trying to figure out is
Are you establish this hierarchy? Where You know I'm king of the team and everybody else has to do with you know for me. Mention must stop. Watch, ok, my time, your time, whichever fast this gets to be taken, it's all about things that what it is, as is determined yeah, I'm in love with me to pick up hungarian framing. Look, let's start down at the bottom of outdo as mean you got this famous mountain in France. When these twenty one european turns put a couple, cyclists down there and say, go to the top and then you're gonna figure out her your team. It is in a hurry. Ok, I got so. Basically I have. I have established myself as the I'm better than everybody on the team is that it now? What we ve done is allow you to have that, because you won't stop moaning so to stop you're hurting it didn t matter. Has that say that about? Do you know my case? That's way would be removed
every like this flexibility later creeds, let the garbage can use. Will you shut up? If we let you believe it's even later there I mean Eric weak boy. You discuss. There is a very defensive tinge strategy in terms of you protect the team. Either all cause, you get the time you get the energy by you get the words you get the raincoat you get. If you get silver service three week re semi, I asked how the right guy have you what they had three weeks to do this and they have to survive and all kinds of conditions and keep in mind the other. The cyclist who were typically when a winning are the ones who went in the mountains. Gods meant that the cycle
to win this thing may only when one or two stages in any given race, you know they're, not winning every single state right there, teammates are keeping them close on the flat stages there not losing any time against their main competitors. The alpha males and the others teams right so they're all getting close to the same time on these flat stages, and then they get up to this matter. Mountains stage, and then they try to take a couple minutes from a competitive so that they that's when they that's when they have to sign. So you know where I I forget that this is a three. Not now I to take back. It's actually really fascinating. Now, look like because this I forgot completely as we will have this conversation, that this raised it's over furry whom we eat he's right who actually at my right, they get two days. Rest but in the grass, I could get to rest eyes over the course of today's who days rest over the course of three weeks. That's right! You get twenty three days for this
brace, twenty one of them recycling and two of them are resting an enduring the resting days. Am I allow the conjugal visit now you can, but your leg, may not be there. For the mountain I'm not sure how I interpret that, let's go geographically, the teams from thanks for introducing that, I listened to the teams from that defensive strategy of protect the king have an aggressive strategy when it Mr taking our opponents we talked about touched upon, it may be during the drafting. There are some bumping and some not doing, but do the teams aggressively attack other teams, riders sure if, if one writers ahead- and you might what's teammates Dick trot a string, the polluter up a little bit rake way and then another another teams, gonna have to send someone to chase them down and you can lose some teammates. That way, you can lose a little protection that way, so
I mean there's all kinds of jockeying for position on the flat stages and then try to set up a good climate exerts they so Eric. Let me get this straight, withdrew job, be at that point, to chase the guy down and then to slow him down to try and get in front of whom it maybe impede his progress. Is that part of the strategy? Well, you might actually just get up behind him and start drafting. I mean he's. Gonna have to do a little extra work to hold you. Behind him than right. Ok, I got wow while so now with that in mind. Ok, here's what I'm thinking so it's This is so dependent upon. All of these different, very was coming together. What is to stop me from having a bunch of famine on the side of the road you see, you are a part of my team who are going to do some stuff, guys once we get by. You know those guys behind us make sure you get out the slingshot let's get out the eggs like was was to suffer from happening. You'd. Think I asked ITALY Elliot cars with that that you see the police.
Cars riding with the cyclist those people are gonna, be going to jail, pretty good Ok, I just don't have the firearms? Ok but it doesn't stop, it doesn't mean. Wasn't it so badly into outer bodily urine thrown over him in recent years, yeah I mean that's. One of the key tapes were allowed to see these days. Possibly say by the way our lemme tell you this year. There is my kind of treating ok If you're going to cheat, I'm just saying Somebody throw a bottle of urine on your opponent that some gangsta aren't Kelly right there and I'm offering ok, I'm just say joking guys? Ok, let's it. Let's go back to the strategy, because Therefore, when you watch the tour de France, yes, you see the pilots home, but someone said I've had enough and they ve gone
and they have opened up five hundred yards a mile and there are ongoing what kind of strategies that, if it's all about team success, well, don't forget if you went to stage of the tour de France you get up on the podium at the end, you get a nice check. You get prestige four year team, which also has a sponsor mean, there's a there's, a financial benefit. Of course you help your own images. Cyclists, which could lead to endorsement deals, means a lot of things that giving not everybody can win a toward a fraud stayed so you know to be What to do so is a pretty fantastic and special thing that there is an iron team, the air without its half, so is it for the three weeks? Is it over all time how you determined the winner, the over all time for the team over all time, for visual writers. How exactly do they come up and say you are now the winner of the tour de France and within that how do they say? Ok, we'll go!
for the Laurel leaf on this one dude. So after each stage we know who's got the lowest. This this time, and general classification is known after every single stage, so the yellow jerseys, going to the cyclist, is completed. The stages in the short amount of time. So how the wonder whether okay- so my point is this- if I am the team leader. Ok, We are winning all these stages, but I have only one two of the stages, but on the team leader, do I, when the tour de France her do and in fact the one or two stages you probably are gonna you're gonna be in the mountains, and your teammates may be like twenty five minutes behind you. Ah, they might get you to them at the bottom of the hill that you're gonna pick up a lot of time on them. Get up that hill. Got you got you, then you have individual time trials during stages
where the individual sprinters on the team come to the fore that that's right. Sometimes you have a team time trial, sometimes an individual time trial that those are found a watch, because you get some really fast beat on those things speedily up to on a time trial. Yeah I mentioned before either that Roma debt has said that the I heard about thirty five and a half miles an hour of your wedding gave us an average give us an average of. If you were to take the average speed. What would it be at its average speed, wholly crap wellness last year, Chris Frame, I mean he average nearly twenty five miles an hour for the entire race wow. All three It's a three week has been saying. Well, look, let me ask you this cause, I'm I'm I'm gonna, say first war, guys. Let me just say I have a new respect for the towards promise you that I will say that I'm not gonna hate these guys are incredible. Athletes and
is an amazing fiscal feet that they are accomplishing. That being said, I know for sure I'm never going to watch the tour de France so What I'm trying to ask you is, have you ever wants, then the entire tour de France Eric, yes, I have I it's nice to sit in my office and brought my feet up and watch it and tell people I'm working We greens out that's right and keep in mind when I was a kid I wanted to play baseball on and I could probably go into a battery cage and hit one out of a hundred pitches paradise single, but not on my best day. Could I wake up and go do at this stage of the tour de France? I mean this is an incredibly elite sport in a very few people can do something like that now with that in mind, and we're not gonna get into doping at all, but That, in my part, is ITALY wonder that these guys
are doing performance enhancing drugs after all this stuff that we just talk about? I'm sorry, but I don't mind if I take steroids or anything that makes them stay awake or I don't care if their smoking crack these guys What they're doing? Why do we care that they're doing drugs? Why? Well, I guess, if you have rules in place and rules are being broken, then you care, I mean you just have to decide. If, if you really don't care that they're doing the drugs than just make em legal mean you just have to decide what you want. The rules, your sport to be got rid of either they're, not gonna, make the bikes lower and mass than six point eight kilograms, and I want to change it change it that the drugs can have harmful effects to the people. So there's common air, call reason why you might what the rules in place to a ban those substances. Ok, I listened. I mean those are all good than salient points that you just made, but I'm just saying that I understand,
nothing about that. That's all I can say is: I should repay division. I understand why somebody my current quote: cheat during the toward Tour de France after this, with this. We have had, and if I'm twenty five years old in a locker room and my only way to make a living is on a bicycle and I need a little edge to compete with the other. People that I see also getting a little edge it it's hard for me to falter temptations right. I dont, we love the sport anyway. Yes, I hope and pray that it is clear. Is that right, Eric wearily soap, its being followed rules are being followed. I would like, if that's true without a doubt where this has been fascinating. Mad has I gotta airing. So much of your time, Professor Eric Gulf, from Lynchburg College, professor of physics, and also of gold medal physics Thank you, the meal and rice and answer I'm woodlands, Armstrong. I think, as I said before, love him or loathsome. When Lance
strong talks? Well, you know what we listened, because as an awful lot of sense of what he said. In terms of the science and the way explains its nose, the sport. That's all. There is now a lot of the time to talk to us. Gregory and it gets so we one thing after another and The important thing is the term if Chuck doesn't get his way he will have attained from so while the rising at that very rightly observed my as well- and this has been plague. Science is really body or companies like Galileo job. The orange which you can listen, the star talk: commercial, free joy.
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-19.