From Aristotle's misguided meanderings to modern open heart surgery.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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come back to you start talk, radio, I'm your hosts, astrophysicist meal Grass Thyssen in this vessel edition of stock talk in celebration of what else, but Valentine's day. Show were calling matters of the heart. Yeah. You gonna learn more about the heart than you ever dreamed possible. The I could pull that off is if I had a special guest. I don't even know where we got this guy, but he was in the street or something or producers found him I have with me in the studio car. Yeah surgeon, Doktor Darrell, Hoffman Dal, oh doctor, can it? What can I call you? There are pleased that this is the start of radon call you Darrow good just, but with it. If you have operate army, our sole call, you doctor, you can still call me down there, welcome to start talk, radio Eagle, cardiac surgeon. Thank you. This is how many these you do a year couple hundred yeah. So so
is someone not getting operate in our cause? You're here in the studio with me now known, I've. A great crowd of colleagues who take care of things is weakened its trick worry me about that. I don't you have an accident. We will you help from South Africa originally via Scotland, and then the Bronx, the Bronx, the Bronx. In the house you know from the brok I do So you from the enclaves where Expatriate South Africans landed in the Bronx. That's the one met around Einstein Marice Park Avenue, so there is such a place apparently so We want to talk about the heart, not only as this perceived organ of emotion, but also as a functioning part of the human body. Way back. You know we might have some people might remember either from the history class or for their philosophy class that Aristotle, I dont know if he started. Putty certainly was influential about all that he said as the heart being the seat of intent Johnson of emotion and of sensation, and clearly I mean it's all right
Aristotle, always and a lot of stuff, especially when it came to physics and astronomy, but apparently is also wrong. There Well, yes, wasn't only Aristotle, unfortunately, Galen described to circulations and dumb. They were sort of in parallel. They didn't mix, and the idea was that term. The heart was the seat of emotions and the brain actually provided cooling for the heart really extraordinary. Ocean, but it was some believe by the church and until the middle ages, that was son in arguable facts. So what made it an arguable factor that too smart guys, my Aristotle Galen said it would. Somehow resonated with church dogma. I didn't think it resonate with dogma. Just was accepted and M human experimentation was obviously not an option. Despite animals being widely available, dissection just wasn't probably prick And what was why would anyone believe that other animals had anything to do with humans? Next excellent point, yeah I mean especially,
also close the arduous they just some of the creature on the earth and not can't have anything possibly to do with us. Even though their two eyes a nose. A mouth ahead, shoulders, arms, elbows legs, hips too, Yes, they went to many great apes around there either. So with animals they had worked for legged and as a boner resemblance to a mankind, so the great apes being their closer genetic relative, the chip, but among them at the top of it, absolutely and all in Africa, not in the endeavour, Galen and Aristotle. Practically. I not in the Mediterranean basin. I don't believe it would be a different situation of April Runnin around town when what they would have said, now that you know we have our intermittently, we have are sort of comedic contributor, primarily, is actually the science comedian. He tweets under the science
comedian and he every now, and then we ask him to reflect on the subject of our show, and this time he actually he's he's funny as always, but he gets a little sensitive because in fact he had first hand experience with the heart, let's find out what he has to say. Although I love my girlfriend when I think of the heart I dont think of love and romance, I don't say I love you with all my heart, because I know it all in my head, The brain is the seat of consciousness, but that's not the played down. The brain is the most advanced piece of biological technology ever dreamt up by natural selection. It's the most important organ well, according to itself full of mystery and possibility. The brain may be the final frontier, but where would we be without the heart, the bodies rhythm section, the pump it powers, the circulatory system it sends food?
gin and chemical messages to every part of the body. Then it picks up the waste and carries it away comes back round again with proper maintenance. You might get seven eight, maybe nine or ten decades out of it, but there is no guarantee when I think of the heart I think of my father, my senior year in college. He had his first heart attack. That's not a phrase. You ever want near vocabulary. My first heart attack. I got to know Saint Luke Hospital in Houston much better than I care to it. They So he has a Mcdonald on the lobby level as if to guarantee a flow of new patients. Now I'm as old as my dad was when he had his first tack and watch brewing inside me. I'd go now He was over wait, a heavy smoker and a work, a holiday and frankly, I'm none of those things, but how much is genetic and how much environmental he had a second heart attack. Ten years later, then he received an inn.
Patentable, defibrillator, essentially making them a cyborg. You know the defibrillator its those pad was the yell clear and then they shock you back to life will. There's a smaller version that goes inside you, the little computer pack IRA quickly about the size of a pack of cigarettes and its attached to your heart or his heart. If it detects arrhythmia and abnormal heart beat it and the little jolt of Frankenstein in electricity to the rescue. For a couple years. My dad was on the heart transplant waiting list, slowly moving his way up to the top. The hospital gave him a pager. If it went off, it meant my parents had to get to the hospital immediately, so he could have his heart removed and replaced with another because the new heart, his new, would only be viable for a few hours, and several times the pager went off. My parents called in only to discover it was a false alarm. How's that for someone who already has a heart,
In the end, they got the genuine com dad lived, the last five and a half years of his life with somebody else's heart beating inside him, and we were grateful for that extra time So I guess my Valentine's day messages for you. And your loved ones. Take care of you and all your organs. Body is a machine that needs proper maintenance, treat it right and be an organ donor. Four star talk, radio on Brian Mallow. That was Brian Mallow. I meant everything that he said was really great stuff. I'm hot transplantation works. They aren't enough organs out their electrical technology, mechanical pumps, Israel, great things. We ve made huge steps forward, but we still need. For transplantation and everybody should beware of organ donation and sign the organ donor card. Sign that organ donor card.
If there are enough organs to donate. Does that mean we should repeal the helmet laws for motorcycles, something I argued that I didn't seem entirely moral to do that, but term immunity states area the twenty four hundred heart transplants done. Many more people that died on the transplant waiting list awaiting an organ. Forty, I haven't seen you around. Forty thousand people die on the highways of all ages. Absolutely so it's easy to do? The back of your drive, since in New York State just get it and sign it. Let your family be aware of it and if something awful happens you can save one and frequent cases, many other lives by donating organs, and it's probably not only in New York, where that signature enables it on the back of your driver's license, check encase you'd. Never looked often you have occasional look at the back of your driver's license so doctor
several hundred cardiac surgeon over while we were listening to bribe mallows sensitive, yet comedic take an open heart surgery and transplants. You whispered to me that you just installed defibrillator in your mouth, in law, and I, like my mother in law, everything that we have that fact. First, before we continue the story. Full disclosure I put it in, I put my follerin- was based Magruin as well, so well, If you do this effort, you're not allowed to operate on family well, units must operate in blood relatives and offers a more complicated operation. I wouldn't have done it because I would be concerned, but under the sun instances. I was comfortable doing those things, and so your mother in law, so so this that puts in good forever. I guess I'm I'm hoping that might be what it takes for. The rest of us are still struggling on this one. It it's it's great technology, it's like buying an insurance policy and what is your heart and if you have no with mere that is life threatening, instead of them
coming as they do on television with paddles and working, and when your chest kneeling clear, giving you a massive electrical shock outside the body. This gives a small shock inside it makes such good tv to do that on average they all we have a little thing inside you that did it there's no scene to film of just say you're right, but it said that the television and popular media have been able to distribute these messages, and you haven't gotten home the idea that there is more that people can do about prevention and the patient should come forward and donors should come forward. Well, let's look at some of the statistics. Before nineteen hundred very few people died of heart disease that it could be because they died of other things absolutely but blown out of infectious disease. In Madeira. The average life expectancy was around fifty fifty five, where we have not, in the nineteen bomb say before. Nineteen hundreds of eighteen hundreds at one, thirty five hours, we talk a cavemen, thirty five live, you know if you average Epps
not if you ever get out you'll find out that if the average in all the infant mortality, absolute, ok, fine, but those who That's right of fats into your bloodstream. What we don't we don't understand enough about this? We know some of the risk factors and the most important ones are genetic and you can't back, they didn't have elevators, they didn't have escalators. You know they would clean there rugs by hand by beating look at all the trawlers, they walked miles to school in the snow. Absolute uphill, both ways you know nowadays is down hill, both ways. So so do you do lament that modern culture does not have built into it ways to keep our heart healthy life, it's. What you say is very important and it starts at an early age. I've read so he's which would unduly a vietnamese era where young men who died in the conflict had autopsies and they were already signs of authorised neurotic heart disease in the aorta
in which nearly twenty years old, that's the precursor of the disease that goes on to block the currently out. How does that happen by the time? You're twenty worthy in too much ice cream, because I'm going to have to be invented? What a great invention that was an efficient way to get saturated fats into your bloodstream, But we didn't. We don't understand enough about this. We know some of the risk factors and the most important ones genetic and you can't pick appearance so once you start, with those. Maybe the day will come when we can approach please now with the genetic engineering but a meal. The hand there are things that we know that you can modify cigarettes smoked,
in diabetes. Diet exercise stress these are all things that high blood pressure are significant contributors and can and should be modified by people and the doctors. So I heard that stress like abrupt stress two year to year, psychological state, not just physical stress, but psychological state- can actually have an adverse effect on the stability of your heart, possibly leading to a heart attack, which means you can die. Of a broken heart. You can dive a broken heart. That's absolutely true! It's been documented, its extraordinarily ran. We don't understand the mechanism for doesn't happen nearly as often as the retail retold stories of love in fiction would have is now absolutely not a commoner garden reasons why people die from heart. Disease are really preventable. Some of them of course, inherited abnormalities. The heart is a very complicated pump and done in development
a number of stages at which things can go wrong. Hose can develop and heart valves can be always whereby the hole in the heart white. What was that about both in them a complicated situation in the uterus, the fetus has to have blood circulating in the blood can't go to the lungs predict,
because the there's no air going in and out of the lungs, so that blood has to find a way to be shunted from the right side of the heart to the left side. Normally, the right side would pump blood to the lungs. It would come back to the heart and then the left would go to the rest of the body. I say so what, in the fetus you're not breathing, could you just sitting there in this than this fluid and also other things have to work out? If it doesn't it failed? So this deals in utero rights. It is a shunt of blood from the right to the left side and after birth that should close. It sometimes does not, and that creates an atrium sippel defect, very bad Bertha, very, very bad, but entirely manageable by simple operation and now even manageable by catheter base techniques. When we come back, I want to bring on star talk, radio somebody who just had open heart surgery, not at heart transplants, but just had had plumbing done on his heart. Just
couple weeks ago and we'll talk to my final, what that was like and see if, if it's something that he enjoyed and would do again, start talk. Radio, predetermined, goodness gracious me, Hey. I've got a little secret for you when I consider singing all of the ads on this shell, there's just one way to get out a hearing, they're good, patriarch arms last started tall and supporters at the five dollar level or higher to listen. The star talk ad free. You can download all current episodes into your favorite parkers player and never hear another commercial on star talk ever again. You will deaf, not have to hear me sing if you support us at patriarch dot com? Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking
I'm just saying the future of space and the secrets of our planet reveal this star die. is not the ringing you start I think everyone around when I talk about thought that I could say in the shower no place I know the grass Thyssen Host STAR Talk Ray
Welcome back today, subject is seemed matters of the heart and celebration Valentine's day. We're going to talk about the heart, not only as an organ of emotion, but as an organ keeps you alive as I pump, and some milestones and cardiology at most of what we know and understand about the heart is only happen in the last couple hundred years, given that the hearts been around for several hundred thousand LISA
in a human being, it's kind of embarrassingly late and our understanding of how things go on sixteen twenty eight, William Harvey an english physician first describes blood circulation. Seventeen o six Raymond deviations of french anatomy. Professor I pronounced that right view. Citizens, french anatomy perspective. Professor first described the structure, the heart chambers and vessels. That's an important advance right there. Seventeen thirty three Stephen Hale is an english clergyman and scientists. First measures blood pressure, that's good, because you need, in fact the physics of the finance. And before you can even say that is going on inside your body. The concept of pressure itself was new at the time a teen, sixteen Renee Nick, a french physician. If it's the stethoscope, where would we be without this deficit? Is the doctors necklace That's how they proved you they're a doctor as they walk around the house, also the hospital. Where would they be without them?
nineteen o three. The year the Wright Brothers first took flight with heavier than air craft. William Eindhoven, a dutch physiologist, develops the electric cars, graph? Electricity was relatively new in the early 1900s, and the good medical doctors figure out how to use that to understand. What's going on in the human body, one thousand nine hundred and twelve James Herrick American physician describe puttering hardening of the arteries. That's an important result. Right there and that's not even a hundred years old, one thousand nine hundred and thirty eight Robert Grossman american surgeon performed the first heart surgery. I'd hit you up in that first patient affect what you never learned about. Are all the pay
We are heart: surgery was a tent if they just never survive, they don't show up in the encyclopedia only the ones who survived. That was one thousand nine hundred and thirty eight one thousand nine hundred and fifty one Charles Hufnagel and american surgeon developed a plastic valve to repair an what a vow of plastic was coming online as a new material and so good thing to know that medical doctors are, exploiting the technologies of material science to find out how their crap can be improved. One thousand nine hundred and fifty two John Lewis, american surgeon, performed the first open heart surgery crack the chest, get in there and see. What's going on one thousand nine hundred and fifty three John Griffin and american surgeon uses a mechanical heart and a blood purifier, one thousand nine hundred and sixty one Jr Jude in american cardiologist leads a team. The first external cardiac massage to restart a heart. These all milestones. We have
show Doktor Darrow Hoffman he's a big cardiologist heart surgeon we'll get back to him in a moment, but I first want to introduce a friend who was only two weeks ago was under the scalpel having as chess, correct, open as they did new plumbing on his heart? Let me introduced to start Artlessness fifty eight year old, Glyn, would Glyn welcome to startle. Thank you for having meal and you are alive. I ridiculous. Listen! What day was your surgery? It was actually a three fry days ago. So it's three weeks until you walk round a kick in you're, not I'm doing marathons and during the zipper clay How big is your scar? Let me show to me now: I bid to everyone on star talk, Photoshop pop don't hear comes it passes belly button. Now up there goes its. Ten inches long and it's clean duration that'll give you that either lit no. They cause. They want sentence businesses the doctors and want to keep it a secret
kind of smoking and drinking. Were you doing that they had to perform this operation on? It will follow enough. My head an estate lifestyle up to now has not had anything to do with what they had to do. Got the bad genetic lot in life than the duff heart in the first they I oughta valve was a bike us bid. Instead of being a troika, for your genetic anomaly, but you know miss your whole life than since I was too so why she was now to do it and not when you a younger, because my heart was about to expire. Though it was getting very board with the access were so as long as you're alive and kicking and not dying. There's no reason to actually put your life. It further risk by doing the operation to the stage where the risk of the surgery was than the risk of not doing it. I think so! That's it. That's sensibly conceive that way. Yes, so I'm taught so what they repaired. The valve, parent, or they swap it out with new parts like
no possess part of ermintrude. I have a cow valve going on inside, have part count your I'm hot. How and grasses looking extremely nothing, They added extra stomach steered. If so, the cover so wow, that's! So what could they could? They have gotten a vow from other animals or some about a cat It worked perfectly for you. I was given no choice whatsoever and I have I wasn't that faith in my cardiac Who was it that anyhow finally came available? I think they actually stopped because they at once the carved you up a bit and remove the old bit, and I did ask if I could keep the old one out of it there, but you keep their weapons and check out of you, which is something wrong. There's something wrong and those mine couldn't more mine could write. It could not be, but I wanted to take it away and have it set in clear reason. Just you know, I also wanted it.
A video of the operation that'll give you that either lit no, because they want centres, businesses, the doctors and want to keep it a secret effect. Let's get to the bottom of this, let's bring back on Doktor Darrow Hoffman he's a heart. Surgeon at basic Beth is your hospital here in Manhattan. He s a doctor Hoffman. We have a man sitting to your side, who just underwent open heart surgery, the kind of energy that you do it. Why don't you people, the video tapes are, they can put it on Youtube. What's up what's going on, there were some real circumstances. You might do that most operating rooms and equipped to record the entire operation. In this country. There are considered so lame and explanation because we people with a video camera record anything any time any place. We have aliens on tape. You right we try and record operations to teach people we find out how difficult it is. If you use a head mounted camera, which is one way to do it every time you move
the head, everyone whose viewing the picture gets nauseous because you movie hit so much turns out it's very hard to film and operation accurately. You know, I think, that's doing, but what our colleague cept it for now cause I'm being polite Glyn. When you got you when you got this operation, did you feel any different coming out of it? Did you feel like? Oh, my it is fresh and lively, and I have greater capacity for love, because my heart is intact whereas before I was heartless and we I remained stone, have this in turn we watch what your profession, that did you give a profession. That is not good for the What would you do? I make a constant sound engineer. I told the world with the with Rockets. That's that's! That's how I code for Groupie I searched sound engineer. You chase groups around you're, not a grouping. No, I have
without noticing, or are you rode into Rodya either so do the ones we trash hotel rooms after concert, if necessary, require trash such aid in a hotel if necessary? So now I like this laughing Doktor Hoffman. Did you have preferred vows? What kind of animals do best for vows well laid on humans, their different kinds of else, broadly speaking, their valves that have made out of four mechanical comply? then send those valves who lost forever but require the patient take blood centres which have their own problems. Otherwise valves can be used from pigs. They can be used the lining of cholera that not at the Beth Israel Hospital, though not matter now it it's a perfectly kosher to use big valve to save them.
Is that right or excellently? Let him good to hear that other things that you can do you can actually take a human valve and usage. Of course, some readily owner might have Jake, and so he had evolved from a did human or from a human whose getting a new hot for hot transplant and suddenly the bad humans. We couldn't learn about the heart long ago. If there was some taboo to prevention, digging cadavers up Europe's literally right, the church held certain inviolable beliefs. Galileo and others got two locked up and interrogated for a break. Those rules but I'll Fourthly, William Harvey, as you point out in England, discovered the circulation of the heart and then see lots of new ideas replaced previous dogma experimentation took. So how would that your medical students, third How would they learn in those days they learned from books and dump the drawings in those books were very in. I bet if I had a great robbing this
I do I'd be, do very well, I absolutely so, and even in the eighteen twenties roughly in Edinburgh, which was one of the leading a medical It is in the world at the time, a bodies we used for dissection students learn by cutting up dead body. And let us do what they wanted was a day when you don't eat your body, no wonder that absolutely there's no presume donation and then a couple of guys could Burke and Hare wooden steel body from the graves and asylum in the back door of the medical school young gentlemen who were not medical students were interested in the some may come to the dissection holes. Well and Burke and Hare realised that they needed to increase their business, and so they started actually murdering people soon enough the use of other they laugh. But this is England for Europe. Reminded of ivy League- is why, before the war, to get away from you guys from
Now? Here we are again now you may only with an american action on the show I just bought it in your axing hails from where Manchester England men. I have lived here for eleven you all. I know Manchester as this is the football team soccer team they actually do you have to set. You were right. First, on football game played with the feet I do want to answer the question you asked merely a do. I feel difference mobile. How does it get back to that cause? We're back to go to break, but I happen to know that sometimes you can be quite cantankerous the end of the brain and what may worth much worse. About the break open it interview the person who took care of you during your Convalescence post surgery like when we come back on start.
You got a chair, TAT Street to boot. Breathing space inside it down to earth. You're listening to start writing. Eighty three that, yes, the owner of a lonely heart this, or, special Valentine's day, show on matters of a heart time. Your hosts, Neil, the grass Thyssen, welcome back just
facts about the heart you may have known or heard at one point: average heart beats around seventy per minute, seventy times a minute and on any given day, including Valentine's day. Your heart will be a hundred thousand times and if you do, the math you'll get about two and a half billion heartbeats in your lifetime, a half billion. Consider also that all mammals live for about the same number of heartbeat except humans who live about twice as long as that fact, in cave Mandy, we we live about the same number of heart beaches, other animals as well, thanks to miracles of modern medicine,
there. The editor of the literary phrase gives us we're doing a little better. The heavy at heart and world have his heart to ever. Was the whale two thousand pounds ways a ton but, of course its neutrally buoyant and border zone fact it weighs nothing. Has that for some physics for you, so we have with us in the studio doc There are offered his aunts, arts, urgent, cardiac surgeon. We have also Glyn would of recent recipient of heart valve just three weeks ago. He is alive and kicking in the studio. He's a cantankerous Brit who's been in America. Eleven years and we will have dinner with them all the time, what with fighting about something but lovable sites, Glyn? What? How do you do? We? U cantankerous with the nurses and doctors in the house,
They loved me all you love, I loved. You will leave me. I would marry my surgeon and he's just the most adorable person favourably very, very, very alive, and I fully appreciate and he went and afterwards we did you convalesce. I went and have the good fortune to stay with a couple of very dear friends out and Montauk majority. The end just the Tipp of one island which just copy and yes next, stop Portugal and they looked after me. Fabulous and you know we aren't. We did our homework on this and we found out who it was that took care of you. It was none other than Clare short time, and we went in and she is in the studio, aware, welcome to start operating and what what possessed you today
you're goin cause I've been in his company. Ten minutes is pretty much will I could you tolerate? Looking back on our life? Was a nightmare? Cried like a girl like you, I was glad to anyone. I most pain in the ass usual, I don't know he's now. You are not a nurse url and I never will be offered by experience Nightline Glenn. What did you do at home? I built, and I was actually completely Sweden and a lot of all I know is lost when most of the time in bed. I can tell you very well that's why that's a glint. How did your feelings change after this surgery? Were you a different person? Lings? Oh well, I am a different person. Afterwards, I've had this Duff hard, All of my life does that British Forbad heart crap I can do is used to it, because that is what it was, born with the.
It feels like somebody just drove attractive through your chest when you have the surgery so for the first couple of days afterwards, now I felt pretty bloody rough, the truth be known body. For that Ok, hardware store, and no no it it's you guys are demanding is much more expensive. You would know that the medical Britain has it has a different word for what it is their using the knock on effects in the key to drill or at or written so what you got, what he actually call the device vessel non. Allied give me this give me the saw did what they all came as yet. That is the truth, MA old I'd love to write on plan for hours. He was actually go patient. I know we don't want to hear that the EU is in the flat students was a nightmare. The burping was literally shocking? At one point, eight I said I had to do a cat tat. They say the work we have that we have a dark, haired, Doktor Hoffman. What is with the Flash airlines in the burning? What is that the north. What consequences open heart surgery will? It must have been a particular.
Strange cow and he must have been chewing cod was concerned. It was simply an excuse. This was the cow part that he got. The cow valve So we're wondering at the council actually somehow rubbed off The problem arises while it made him laugh and he's not space to love. That was when we rapid fortune rests on your ass. Having a heart shaped cushion, they gave him at the hospital which was dead cave that he has to hold a so ii, would far. And then he laughed than I would laugh, even though it's not funny when men do the actual it. But it's a and it is if you have six great, but you see you get eleven years old, but the best thing was why we were told when he was leaving hospital. We were told all the things that you also wasn't allow today. Like me, no no laughing! No drinking, no walking know this neither, but he was a lot of socks up. Since that day, so my were inserted would not walking. You know
Ok, what doktor proscribed this an excellent document is that why you? What a daily marry your doctor, you're gonna, get soiling the passive mommy till. Can trust me. I don't want to go there even when you I didn't want or had the bad. They have. The paths. It's not about Rome no bars above are always make this America Jack Easy colonists back. If you carry so not the bars the by about the bar bar of mom till looking for talents, I wouldn't let now I'd have quietly whether it was available on my health insurance. In that way out. Is that normal? Let you you know, let's do anything now obsolete Hoffman. What what? What are you prescribe ever you? We recovered someone's chest. So here's what we tell people we tell them that by a month or two surgery, they should be walking two miles a day,
and there really very early on sex equivalent to a very, very few, really loved. The math is government how many heartbeats yeah so you're allowed to do anything except heavy lifting and when patients ask, because we don't tell them this to me. When I ask about six, we simply say: please wait till you leave the hospital milk, so if they got enough energy to get out of the building that that's good enough, that's it that's the threshold, the main the main reason we want people not overdo. It is because of the mechanical stress on the breast bone. We split the breast, but to get to the heart and debt. To up like any broken. But when you say split you mean Hacksaw open. Well, use, a saw yes, absolutely deprecating saw I saw the jigsaw
not really like a black indirect subsidies gases day. A silver blackened do know is: if we get it right in the local hardware store. No, no it it's you, girls are demanding, is much more expensive. You would know that American Britain has it has a different word for what it is their using binoculars, the key to drill or at or so what you got, what you actually call the device, the soul. No, we don't you alive. Give me this. Give me the saw did what that means. You have different decay, so to formulate the earthly with a very high level. There are now going to contemplate this one. Blade that we use for anybody who has not had an operation before if someone's had surgery before that the pot can get stuck to the inside the back of the breast and so then we wouldn't let, according to all the heel bone, is stronger than regular bound. No, no. It's the same strength that term. If you don't want to go behind the breast, but this particular saw that was used in you. It's used in office time. People has a little foot play for
goes behind the bun and the soul goes up and down, and that's why it's called reciprocating and it cuts through the the the bun and you start at the bottom and work your way up to the top. But if someone's had an operation before you don't have that kind of bone. Ok, a different kind of council, I see scenario, but now I my image of open hearted dream is from the movie. What some of you all that gentleman yeah, I'm a they use, actual file footage and they have this like cranking The eyes retracted, hold the brisk blown up and out yeah. Just just feels I don't even I can't even and you just look at this every day. The human It is one of the most beautiful things to look at when you see that hot beating I do it every day and it still exciting when, when I see it, the natural development of that is extraordinary and you know what's happened, a gleam
is it he was born with an abnormal valve and valve had two leaflets, not three in overtime. The natural stress has caused those two leaflets to stick together and that narrows, and so the body is forcing blood through this narrow nozzle, and that's why he was feeling weak and tired. And why he feels so energetic after the search results did. If you knew him from before, and you know I'm after is more energetic. Now I scare light Lynne on drugs. Really is a main is really where the first thing I noticed when I saw him as I thought he was one of those sort of pale. British people with the prison population, In keeping with interesting, ass pale and interesting Glenn, and here as in complexion writers of she
and when he came out- and he looked like Franklin Glenn, Emily hasn't even showing you, the fantastic scar on is jugglers Olsen, so he's old chopped up and everything, but the color of their skin looked at you know is the best thing. Was he actually put it down to the wash they make you do before your operation of light it did. You had served sub, so he looks more flushed now you're, not only rarely guy looks more alive, lead Leslie embalmed. Let's not push it too. Please ego sorcery, I look see. Let's ride, potentially more cantankerous, always always kind has risen up more I haven't child rejects. Takers factor is only now He'S- got more energy for the cantankerous behind greeting one with dogs, Normally, when I think of people going into four major surgery, you think that afterwards they'll be son, I'm more frail or more more fragile, but you give the kinds of operations where people have a day a new literal, LISA life. They now that it's a start. The time
zero exams loosely. If this operation is poor, and and undertaken successfully at the right time the patient really benefits and the convalescence surprises everyone. We usually get people out of the hospital for a five days after the operation, most people don't pick that and their pleasantly surprised in the old days through to keep him in for a month or something and under his ten days, usually tended the. But now there are now that he, but when did he I was, I was in four days after the surgery so five days in total and you walked out four days later. I walk doubts. Well, they might you know it ok, but I was walking two days after the surgery and you left the hospital after four days and that's when he Have permission by your prescription to indulge absolutely intolerable I even have a piece of paper with adults they'll, be back with more open heart surgery,.
You can follow us on our website. It startalk talk net sweet marking the secrets of U world and everything orbiting around at this historic time. We will be able to remain in your heart this Valentine's day we get here. We need to start talking to your house near the grass Thyssen Joy Ride, Doktor Darrow, hopefully, cardiac surgeon,
Would a recent visit open heart surgery, hey none, and he got a new valve put in from above line We have the person who had the privilege or the duty to take her. Heavenly convalescence, Claire Schoenauer. When we get back to my three guess, we'll give you some interesting facts about what your heart doesn't space. You know, there's this parabolic trajectory you can take on an airplane, while you're temporarily go to zero g, and you can look at the effects of what happens to your heart rate, You go in and out of zero g and so turns out when you transition from one g to G, your heart rate goes up by about there. Can beats per minute and that's kind of understood because it pumping against a higher what's the effective force of gravity. But then
when you go from a to G back to zero g, when you're actually weightless, because these parabolic trajectories you gotta higher g and then a transition to zero g? Could you need neither build up in the parabolic trajectory when it does that your heart rate drops it drops and it can get as low is twenty to thirty bees permitted in zero g? And I find that fascinating at that, because, obviously your heart is no longer working against gravity it doesn't have to work hard. If factually in fact taken a vacation, he eyed, I assume the bloody its accelerated by the e g forces and the hot may not have to pump. For that moment, you worry about two asteroids passing out under those. Well, here's. What happens it turns out. Your heart is accustomed to pumping up to your head against gravity. So it's really primed to do.
And when you dont have gravity it, it's it's gonna pump in the same way and actually over pumps blood up to your head, while in space that wouldn't be no up, it would over public your head, and so astronaut tend to have this very flushed. Look about themselves very sort: a plump beef headed up, flushed rosy, cheeked, look and said the ticket check him out in orbit next time relation. Let them be upside down, so much it. Not only can you not hear anyone scream and space, there is no up or down so listen, listen, doctor, Nowadays they can they nor the people waiting for new heart. Can't we just put in an artificial heart what happened to the Jarvis part of the job cuts no longer used in your right. We ve been working for thirty years now to make an artificial, hot pump and Deborah sums.
Difficult to improvements have been made in recent years. We still have problems, we don't have the perfect connection device. We don't have the perfect valve. Could you have to have the the net plaster do the speculation through two to bite biological material, and you, you know you need bloodstain- is to prevent the blood from clotting inside the plastic or metal components of the hot frequently rather, blood than is space actually has contributed enormously to this, particularly in regard to miniaturization. An end to the palace sources and battery technology. So actually we ve really had a leap forward, and now there are hot pumps, it are available quite freely and will be quite likely changing the technology and the approach patient with heart. Failure of these aren't completely new hearts. These are auxiliary pieces of your heart that just help it pump without without incident. There are all kinds of mechanical pumps which can be outside the body and those like the Java cartridge. He remembers. Refrigerated it had to be tried,
long behind the patient. Now they're miniaturized is still somewhat go outside the body. Rarely just to remind people Implantable NASA likes to miniaturized things, because the bigger it is the more expensive it is to get it into orbit so the entire miniaturization in the electronics industry? was born and stimulated by all our efforts to go into space. I just want to make that clear case. Anyone want here think. You NASA they don't you carry around you. You know Let me thank you Nessa for this, and the artificial heart is is working people of her, the vice president of former Vice President Cheney. Has an artificial, hot pump and readability just as no hard at all. Well, he certainly didn't have a human one and then Sir, he now has an artificial one. So not now I just did at special on PBS Nova, dad Nova. Now we did a segment on their growing
There are growing they're using the the scaffold of organs to then a fix, a pre existing organs, either from a bigger from some other animal that has a similarly similarly sized heart, but they grow your own. Your own tissue onto them. So this is the most exciting idea. Take a hot pumps from circulation through its key alive and then change the profusion fluid to a detergent should gradually washes out all the cells. What you left with is the college and ultra struck, there, the scaffold is about living person. This is almost taken. How does a hot taken out of the body of a pig or some other rodent? Whatever may be o k? you claim of all its you sensitive all the cells, and then you change the profusion solution and in the profusion solution you now introduce stems else, though, stem cell settle on the surface of the college in and they get there
It signals not only from the circulating fluid, but also from the physical forces, which then cause them to differentiate into specific sell some into muscle cells, some into blood vessel lining cells and the but the new muscle that forms begins to beat where you sit in a box and then they pour fluid. That's the one and that's really EDGAR Allan POE isn't that is it's. The most exciting development now not only for heart surgery but father, so you have an organ on the shelf and you just plug it off the shelf and it won't. You won't rejected because it's not another species is not even on other human heart. It's gonna have your own, so you could make it your own. You take out the stem cells from the patient and you inject them into the circulation and this ultra structure the scaffolding, reforms, a living functioning organ which will not be rejected and could be it doesn't like basting doesn't look like basting turkey will for me and sought from the inside
Can I ask a related question of whale related, be aware of request. He doesn't know question so this big two thousand why also in real numbers bulletin like half a bus, one boss, sapping without rest homes are right. So that's ways as anyone ever done any surgery. You think I'm a heart that, because a cow valve wouldn't cut, it would eat up stuff. Thou caraway growth pour the probably need another animal. This the size of you do attitude. You think anyone's have done hearts at coming off. Someone! Ok, so that an open heart surgery on whales, You haven't personally girl I've. Now this is the way that your career could. Guy now Dave we're winding down, are well on our time Glinda. I need to know how do you feel good do feel more greater capacity for love with your new heart valve. My capacities is
huge for low. I watched Ashley S, accounting, foresaw bugger, but these very nice as well is a nice ensures that each ugly, I say his attitude. I think, he's what maiden better so quick cause. He laughed a lot, though, space Day, you Know- and I did have a pretty good, so he left to the detriment of his health. Very lucky, guy coups depressions, common after surgery and this could he didn't I don't know they got on my treated the week. What are we doing here? Let's see how bout a star talk draws to a close. How about if our language kept pace with our science than the phrase have a heart to conjure? Sympathy with a be have a mind review. About their star talk. Radio is brought to you in part by the National Science Foundation. Followers on Facebook Start talk, radio, and in our website a start, talk radio dot net tweet the universe at Neil Thyssen follow
and as always heap looking up star talk, radio sign science like Della, lay I'll drop the Orange which you can listen? The star talk, Commercial free, Joe star talk on Patriot on for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com last star talk, radio
Transcript generated on 2020-02-03.