Should college athletes be getting paid? Neil deGrasse Tyson and co-hosts Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice investigate this hotly debated question alongside author Ellen Staurowsky, EdD, and economist Andrew Zimbalist, PhD.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide our top begin right now this is star talk, I'm the other grass Thyssen, your personal astrophysicist, also serving as your host we're coming to you from my office at the Hayden Planetarium American Museum of Natural history, and in this episode of war,
star talk. I've got my to coerce guerrilla Gary due to be now
nice alone in the house? Yes, you know what today's topic as it is
college athletics now? Why should that? Why should we care in this particular moment, California, recently side into a law, sign it along the power of students to be tempted to profit from endorse
instead, it basically become pro were imprisoned in these ways. The pros have always made money, so this has sent a ripple and run the country roads interesting. Whether or not this money might be interesting of how much money there is. If there is money, is it a little soldiers? Gesture money is at a lot so completely re map. The landscape of of college supports an end quote: amateur sports rights. We,
it more expertise than what we have here to address this? So we we have on video, doktor, Ellen, stir Us K, L and welcome to start off.
I am happy to be here. It's gonna get your your dear you're idea, correct here: you're professor sports management, a dreadful university and in particular you have expertise and interest and social justice
shoes in sport and you recently co authored a paper, the price of poverty in big time, college sports. Where would a paper like that get published
I'm nervous actually report that we did for the national Cards Players, association, Ogier and what is the price of poverty?
well for division, one football player on its adoption
hundred thousand prejudicial one basketball player. It's about one point: five million, while whoops. Where were you saved?
it would be their share of the total.
Revenue that otherwise is changing hands to watch them play
a sum that in those were dark from twenty four teen. Some are trying to update that studies. So it's it's gonna, be more than that in today's dollars, la where we will wait a bit, but I don't watch college football to watch every day.
IRAN, the field, usually there's a few Marquis players that are tracking me to that, too, might my eyeballs to the to the to the edge of the show. So
What would it mean to say that's how you would evenly divided when probably that's not how it would actually happen in practice.
Well, you know I mean in theory
if we were to have a fair market for college athletes, who would also have a players association to go along with that which is dead,
what we need in our men so weird, and we would have a situation where we would have collective bargaining, which would establish
I'm kind of
fine insurance, but of what players would be excellent work might expect
and then beyond that,
where you would see Marquis players getting more on and on fire
you are really on the journey. Getting you know getting a baseline amount, so Josephine
Players union is what you're saying
trade associations or fish? Do you guys have some question here? We go:
Professor, is this move where you see finance is coming to college athletics. Is there
really just going to enable the larger athletic programmes and to the detriment of the smaller com.
Yeah. You know there's a lot of conversation about that right now and then in terms
what the California bill is
a thing. The California bill is really interesting from the standpoint that it's not talking about dollars that exists with in
I'm college I programmes, but about the opportunity of individual athletes to benefit off of their names. Images unlikeness
as a result of that one, but I think we can see
The amendment we are beginning to understand, just even in the passage of the bill,
The value of athletes is is far more than once people,
really really think about, so that, if you look at a gymnast like you see, lays Caitlin Ohashi issue.
A virus sensation back last spring.
She had no opportunity to monetize all of that
popularity that sheep that shielded from those viral moments, and so you know that
where there is a kind of a doomsday prediction that that, if we open up the market, the EAST West, you're gonna be heard at the plane.
The matter is that there are certain social media age where we know that people have the opportunity. Social influencers,
you're all manner of things, the tax will be involved in that are prevented from doing because events rules- and this goes beyond the act- the concept of a Players association because
Now they be monetizing their value outside of the school system in ways that has nothing to do with their actual performance on the field.
Incorrect and end the other piece of California dough.
Provide for athletes to have the opportunity to have an agent or a representative dirty? That's that's! What's Kay,
How does this kind of
relate or Canna harking back to when Olympic players were supposed to be supposedly ah amateurs and incite. Ok, you can't be problem, be a limp,
and then what you started seeing was. You would have the Olympic play
on the Weeds box, which was the very first
way they will aid money which is what's happening to these causes players. Now you see olympic players who are a
so monetize their name in likeness to an extent where it becomes an entire cottage in
three. Ah ah, was the guided swims that roof. What's the big swimming, but Michael Phelps, Allah, Michael Phelps, so you know, are we looking at
a kind of similar trap for these empty athletes
I think we are, and I think what then,
tell me what you're asking about us sort of the fallacy of amateur is all right, then
that the world is not going to come to an end
athletes began to get paid shocks that they begin to have their value recognised.
Her buyers, who was the executive director of the UN's, aren't you know.
A single system that amateurism was it's full of control. The and he's right about that it is economic. Camouflage for an athlete system had not
is what it's about is really more about a narrative rather than being
rule structure that controls fires. It's it's not really about this idea.
That we have come from to think that it is your plus plus truck. In many examples you gave they would go to WWW box wages, but only after they performed a neighbour
says amateurs and then they all day in the old days. In addition to that right, rather than do that on route right, but and then when it got completely open, I mean what for me that the birth date of
It was when the NBA started playing in the Olympics on an employee
now, that's when it was only about the elderly who clearly right we're done here yet professor you touched on the theme
a gymnast wasn't able to monetize, and you ve made me think if this patent comes through and it gets spread across the country. Just how will it impacts?
female athletes in college programmes, I think it really has the potential to alight
How were on much more mobility within the market and what we see right now- and it is an interesting year for us to be talking about this because of the women's national team, the women Soccer national team. There really captured everybody's imagination, but all along the way, with women sports PC over and over and over again, if kidneys, that women's rights are interesting and exciting that that they are a tremendous entity, and I think that in college
wait for someone with people who, just that women's rights are, then foreign nobody's really interested in them. Nobody's going to invest in them, and I think by expanding the market, but we're gonna see is we're gonna see that that there is some kind of a suppression of this
tyres system. This system that exploded male athletes has
obviously also in discriminatory in terms of women and it all comes down.
Sort of the same root cause, which is about economic power. Think these laws are actually going to the impact of this freedom.
Strain an important way in terms of an inch and in a positive way entrance. Do they gotta be positive in terms of exposure for a different sports a year, for instance,
I would say the Williams Sisters- kind of elevated women's tennis to a superstar type
You know you you had superstars before them, but you never had the interest in women's tennis. The way you did after these individual players took such prominence, so
Do you think that could happen for women sports on the college level? If you see a certain, you know rise,
Individuals who you know gather a following: does that help everybody or does it has helped the person is? I am famous now
yeah? I know others are a real fear about that, right that that somehow, if we have some people who were famous and you ve got other people who aren't that that's gonna hurt the system, I mean you look across.
All forms of energy, and you see that there are differences in terms of celebrity levels, and so
we're gonna see an elevation of the entire system. If we do this and
If we look at you know, if you look at the NBA for sale or a lot of those teams, pretty much the author of a couple of meat market requires an end. Is the lesson to be learned there, because we followed
here, is that we now the personalities are, we know on end, and so in terms of women's sport, the more addiction market, women and have them
familiar repealing audience and were like,
an audience going to brow was return, tennis being a solo performing support right. You not mixed in with them
a team to figure out who is who, in its already under visual, already individual, you re focus built into the sport itself, right where there's a finite pool of money. In turn,
of the brands and who would be endorsing a college programme and its historically gone too.
College programme. Now they're gonna, look at it being diverted into the hands of the athletes. They're not gonna. Take that lying down all the others.
It must be some kind of pushed back and you actually see this ending up in court where the college programmes fight back against the athletes.
And there's been an ethic battle going on that way for many many years. The unjust to your point. You know the abandoned versus n c h, chaise. I had to do with the fact that the answer was stripping the athletes rights, foreign tourists
and every several other lost its right now that our building on yeah outcome a ban, and so the answer has very much actively trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening.
But I think what we are really talking about here is a twenty percent review of how much support that this is a more
I billion dollar industry thence
nation as a whole from use all the way through use, for it is a fifty billion our industry, so
So we have these very archaic governance structure.
Is that really need to come into the twenty first century and in the end,
I star stripping athletes of fundamental rights.
Every other symbols in United States would otherwise ha. That's how I respond to that job. At a quick question, when you look at baseball baseball has a farm system. There is a double a triple a baseball and they're all professional and they feed the pros and at a time, honoured system when you think about,
modern football. The NFL just sits there fat and happy waiting for an entire other system to develop their players that they then recruit. It can use foresee a future where the where college s legs is not really part of college it
just a farm system for the NFL or really nba good. Can you foresee up an analog to that as emerging from this kind of change
well, I think in some ways the collar system really is the developmental league in terms
the Uno Shell, and I would say that there has been a at the top. You know from the standpoint.
If you look at the sea, I end if you look at the end the efforts and, on the one hand, done wrong. You know
rule, while it's an mba rule, is something there.
Is really negotiated between the head of the ECB and the IMF, but there's there's no clear rapid the table on that.
There is already this unrecognized developmental system in place, and
think what will happen over time. I hope
Google will get better at name.
These things for what they are and what what
then, how come you will have. A fairer system will also safer system.
You know we ve got as they were competing at the college level. You don't have the benefit of the kind of policy here that they should do.
This may be familiar with Jordan, Mcnair story, young man,
American for all the tragically passed away flat out for negligence, if we
recognize this workplace as I as a workplace
it requires that there be player advocacy, then I've,
We got a long wait for its addressing all these other issues or the limit that the Vienna fell, feeds money into the college system, knowing that that's the feeder system for them into the college I flatter could make and we got a rapid. We got a wrap it up. So thank you very much for being honest,
talk I and it is good to know that you're out there and we like to keep you in a rolodex goods. Will probably hit this topic more in the future. With your permission,
a real pleasure. So when we return more of moving frontier of money in college athletics, unstartled
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when we have an Android Symbolists Andrew welcome to start? Ought to be aware that decide you, the fans of sports and money and and
the business of college sports will all know your two books, one from early two, thousands, unpaid professionals, commercialism and conflict in big time college
We're looking for trouble. It's just a couple years ago, unwinding madness. What went wrong with colored sports and how to fix it. You are the man for this.
Because what we want to know. What are we to think about these recent trends and
I guess California is letting these around. What what did they do? They,
he passed a law that allows college athletes to profit from endorsements?
so we will yield fit. The sounds like that's exactly what you been trying to get to have happened for two decades now,
Ok, I will first of all as most things in the world. This is really a very complicated matter and I dont think that there are simple solutions, but
California once again
leading the United States and progressive change. What
actually happened as governor knew at the end of September, signed a bill that made it illegal for California colleges to pray.
Athletes, from receiving publicity rights, income
sometimes called names, images and likenesses income. So that means
They can now entered through your endorsement contracts. They can sign contracts with video game companies,
which will use their avatars to produce video games, basketball or football. They could do a number of things. Some of them potentially can be earning.
Tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, is more more typically. The college athletes
I won't be earning a lot of money, but this opens up at least
one avenue I whereby
The college athletes can be remunerated for their talents. Of course, the SBA going back to my liking
Five. When we started as proclaimed
amateurism to be the rule of the day, not
allowing students to receive aid directly for their athletic abilities and, of course, the concept of being an amateur used to carry quite a bit of currency in decades past, for example, olympic athletes. You have to be an amateur. That was the whole thing and somehow you tainted
You were professional. We are so passed that culturally emotionally internationally, that isn't it about time that such changes occur.
Also the Olympics began in the nineteen eighty told them that, up and in ninety ninety two,
It has the blanket rule that citizens can be paid when applying amateurism game anymore. I think
are the reasons why this is more complicated in college sport is the college. Sports are college and the sports part is supposed to be actual.
And the athletes is supposed to be students first and beginning an education first set over
what a crazy idea waiting
come up with a notion in also return, but athlete exploitation is really happening. I think, on two different levels: one is that the vote
as the overwhelming vast majority of the athletes in F P S, which is the top level of foot
all individual one basketball, the overwhelming majority
if those athletes are being cheated out of an education that there be exploited there being offered an education there being told that the scholarship that they get than might be on the market might be
fifty sixty seventy thousand dollars a year that
they are getting that for free disposed to come within education, so that.
I'm getting that the vast majority on this problem. A problem number two is that college
It has become. As everybody knows. Unbelievably commercialized you have college kosher of dozens of college coaches.
Over five million dollars a year to keep in mind that a ticket
College president might be getting fired.
Hundred thousand six hundred thousand dollars a year
Let alone was lonely professors, maybe getting paid these college cultures.
Making out. Like bandits, she's just committee system coaches, these days getting millions of dollars, com
prince commissioners are getting paid millions of dollars, so there a lot of
older white males, and sometimes these
There's been already males as well, who are doing very well on the top of the system in the college ravage the ones who produce
The problems are not getting page, not so. The question
should we abandoned amateurism altogether and just kind of make it into professional sports or
We do something else. If you believe in the college model and we're still enveloped by the college model, then I think we have to find some
compromises that will allow athletes to be paid for certain things, but not others. This. This new bill entail
India, and by the way there are now twenty eight states that are highly either introduced such a bill or are about to introduce the both Anders
the bills and the? U S house of representatives and another one.
Senator Murphy and started around you're working on in the Senate. And the question is what
what we mean by an amateur really wishes,
but the answer that define amateurism force. Does they changed your mind every two or three years? What am I
tourism means like him. If we had a few
I can go over every single change they made going back tonight. You know we don't have the time but
amateurism, I think fundamentally means you do an activity for the love of the activity comes from the latin amateur, which means love and
If we're talking about amateurism in that sense, which I think is the common use of the term, then we should say athletes shouldn't be paid a salary, though not employees. There stood decision
We paid a salary for what they do and a basketball court or the football field. But if there is a third party that wants to employ
them to use their fame, their notoriety to promote a product or something else. Then that's start getting paid for playing the game and that should be allowed.
So I think we have to work on the margins here to preserve the basic mouth now, if that's not good enough, if there are still people who, in a crisis, arable exploitation which then we should just professionalized, we should take
I was at the top level and make it into mightily basketball muddling football, let's break down some numbers. If we can, your former professional football are young and you can I an I skipped. The college scenario went straight into professional soccer at the age of eighteen.
Like Lebron James. I look at you. I m all around this was before the bombing decision. Oh yeah way way back
In the doubt you, you look like you're, probably replaying. Last year you my new you're, my new, better frame. What can I say so? Are we going to make any substantial difference to college aunt leads life with the sort of figures that could potentially come into their lives were what are those fit?
yeah. What? What? What are the figures that cook until it becomes a lot? We have? We have college coaches, as I mentioned before, who getting paid so
eight nine million dollars a year plus their allotted.
Outside income plus they have perquisites galore, and you have you, have you have the top? Can football teams in college football today? Is
burning, a hundred and thirty million dollars and, above all, wept over two hundred million dollars. College best was much lower there you're talking about.
Twenty thirty forty million dollars at the top level-
how much is athletes worth well at the pro level we practically,
probably in the United States, the average that roughly fifty percent of the revenue from the athletes where they get fifty percent of this.
Amount of regular being generous, the star quarterback in the store,
have back and lying back and thought maybe getting a million to three million dollars aloud.
Now in mind by the way, keep in mind that at the pump football at the top football level, you have eighty five storage about wage,
how many of them are actually playing during the course of the year, probably
there. Forty of them yet affair has forty five back with people on their rosters,
the vast majority of people actually we're on college football teams and college basketball team
getting a scholarship,
not playing there wouldn't be getting anything in an open market, so there actually getting. There actually explain the college beginning a scam.
Toward seventy thousand dollars per day and then
contributing anything, except maybe as soils during practices or whatever we really talking about a handful of players.
I'm leaving football teams and the leading basketball team who are actually financially being exploited, but they are indeed
because they gonna scholarships. Fifty sixty seventy thousand moors and value the not getting it education since questionable
we're getting any value there all and the probable what becomes coma
already prodigal value about put that they produce is.
Over a million, maybe over two or three billion dollars in some cases. So when you look at team sports, I mean. Is it fair to take the one person who is an outstanding player, compensate them for their efforts? But yet you have somebody else on the team who perhaps the team cannot function without
but not as integral would what are you doing better for the Court of Serbia Hornback, but that's it protects the court of life, but the centres not on the cover sports illustrated writers
quarterback. So what do you do about creating some type of economic parity between the players?
who are a little elite, and the players who are
playing a role could quest so that's it
The problem you haven't professional level right
printed. The professional level. Is Europe, like the bargaining. Collective bargaining establish
minimum levels of salary so that France, everybody in the NFL, is getting at least four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Everybody major League baseball, getting at least five hundred and fifty thousand to the union has bargain for that, and they also bar
for intermediate levels in the NBA. They have something called the exception.
They used abalone bird exception is still had at mother level, mid level exceptions and sought to make sure that enough people are getting paid
very high salaries by normal standards, but get lost
I buy engaged Anderson getting three four million dollars a year
Have that the programme was. What do you do the college that should very very good question, because at the college over, we don't have and cannot have like the bargaining
The reason is that of the hundred and twenty nine teams at the highest level in division wondered play football at the top level. There are a hundred and eleven teams that are public universal,
The national Labour Relations ACT doesn't cover. The public sector only covers the private sector. To see you,
Have collective bargaining
written eleven of the page unless you have special state rules,
repass, most states don't allow public employees to strike Orton to collectively Barton Song.
There is no easy solution to some
we have legislation that were established by collective bargaining might be the way to go, but we were
a long way away from the moment
The economist come up with something I have some great ideas. Burma can guarantee for free,
He said I.
When a car, so I mean for me, I would say, put it in a trust fund and at the end of their ethnic college education. They re both to access that and move on, so that, possibly as a solution to be average rights. And now I have a giant and lawyers because there's money,
college athletes can have agents. Is that right, but another now they're allowed to now they're allow ok, so that issue has made a number of changes in the last couple of years. In response to these litigations try to prevent the whole process from
away from them, so they try to reform on the margin and the ESA is even come out said. We are now willing to support name.
Name image, unlikeness or nil rights, for them
wages are willing to do that. But then
Also said, it's gotta be consistent with our idea of the amateur model, and so that means that they're gonna want to control everything right or they have talked about benefits going to the athletes, but not chance.
Going. I asked leads Russia. What would benefit big baby? You give them a computer, you bear make a tv add for you and use a computer, sir. You can have this computer now, all
as regards your past for the first year, graduates who will pay for that or whatever, because
They are the limited the benefits, but they have to be so called education. We gathered left me related to education.
So this NCAA is tried to cooperate process that is probably got away.
You ve got every legislature in state legislation.
The country now interested in this. Are you going to do
action in the next couple of months and Washington as well. So clearly, this is for the Anti AIDS colleges is about putting money in their coffers. I mean an stopping people from taking the money out of their coffers for the athlete it's about fair compensation. For you know, services render
and it's also about an education soldiers. Here's a scholarship, they should say you ve got a scholarship for life right now.
Whenever you ready to come back to school and be a real student and or go to graduate school. That should be calling your family
well, yes, so other quickly. We want a short on time. Will this disproportionately reward male athletes over
May I ask and how will that? How will that play in,
on the landscape, I mean, if we're talking about millions on publicity rising from them. The male athletes obviously get much more publicity and our society
there were female athletes, distribute argument, two thousand and nine Jean. Yes, that will happen if you're talking about two thousand and thirty. I am hopeful that the women will rise up and
that won't be so true anymore, but here's a problem. The problem is that if we're gonna start paying athlete-
no income, and some of them are going to be entitled to quite a bit than the companies who are sponsoring in promoting and advertising on college sports
currently giving money to the athletic department are now going to say what do you know whatever
he presented, but we will do that like upon fifty percent. We're gonna do the the great athletes who the people
The fate of the amount of money that caused the athletics Department probably is gonna go down, and that me
just be less money to finance vital nine college college athletic programmes at the very, very top level skull, F B s they
cabin average or medium deficit of sixteen
wait, three million dollars and not budget median deficit.
Without counting most capital costs? So you can take a situation where
College is already subsidizing the athletic departments in the vast majority of cases and increase. They could have to increase that
so. Yes, there are some financial ramifications here and yes Hidell
I and women sports might take a little bit of a heavy traffic. Fast, aren't last quite account who ultimately
since in from where we are now in five years time, who do you see coming out on top the programmes, the athletes schools
I can only about no and I think the daily athletes for the big winners here vision
people by the way who are
likely. You can go on and make millions and millions of dollars and approach. I am not sure that we need to restructure, calling
force in order to take care of that group of people, but they built definitely be benefiting from this, and I think that it should deserve benefit chuck last question. Ok, so when a life assistance benefit also be something to consider what is, I was so we're talking about a primarily underprivileged or low income, people that are being exploited for the most part with we have boosters and we have people who already take care of them. We know that, but it's illegal what if we found a way to give them life assistance so that going to school wouldn't be so wouldn't be such a hardship? Would that be something as a first step as not the answer, but as a first step with that help assistance beyond just wishing remiss yes,
We are just its wishes in this now ship. It's like you know, with what they do now the boosters come in and the like we're we're gonna get you the new here's, some coupons for an restaurant that I on, and you need a computer for school and here's a car. But I hear what, when we, when we start to do you want me to dominate yours, the next president of the insured,
What the devil is.
The details here. Boosters can help students after the graduate and can help the modern college, where you can certainly help them asked
words and there have been some reforms in the NBA over the last ten years. One of those is to allow them to call a cost of attendance allowance so that many of the expenses, but they have as as athletes
not only have to go to school and paid for wishing to pay for their books would have to travel back and forth to their home. Town are sometimes
they have emergencies at their hometown or their pair.
One of these events and that something I'll call constable living allowance that can go up to six
thousand dollars a year that will help. Many of these athletes is also, of course, tell grants that can go on top of the outbreak.
Browser. So there's been some improvement in the areas you're talking about, but certainly
it can be a lot more complicated area to tread on, but it is certainly an area for more reform. Are you, though I gave him each other?
and with one last reflection- I you know I remembered occasions where things happened first and we all react so so explosively to it to remember when who's the the the sprinter who grabbed in american flag and ran around his body,
with it from the eighties? What's his name, Carl look, I call on our little crawlers gets remember. It was criticized for wrapping softened Americans like now everybody does it and nobody remembers that that was looked down upon at the time. We look back and Jim Thorpe who got his metal stripped from the Olympics because he had done something professional and so now look back say that was crazy, given given the metal bang. So do you foresee
time, which is basically a completely free, open marketplace, and you don't even have rules related to it because it just if somebody wants a sponsor them. They do
noise at all, they do and
there's, the pot of money at the school is making. It goes back to the athletes at the fifty percent level use approach as a model cricket. Can you see the free market just taken control over there? I could see it if we let it happen, and I think
again, I would insist upon if we're doing this under the educational umbrella, that would we have to modify the rules a little bit. We have to make sure that education is primary thing. That's going on right, if you, if somebody really feel
that that's not sufficient for these outrage regenerating older rubbing. Then we should detached the big schools, the big commercialize schools programmes from
goals and just turn them into minor league was one of the great iron baseball is based doubling in February.
Where they all are and that's where they get get debts that that's.
Farms that are? Finally they all where they have two hundred sixty moderately.
Teams that are subsidized by the major league teams. Amazingly
on average spends about thirty million dollars a year for player development in the
I found the NBA to spend better. That might already have not one
I follow the baseball. My less certainly awaited we can win. Then we ripped apart from the university, no more frequent about educational primacy, exemplifying homeward cheating about the very good
I'll drive. You may not know very quickly. I also like what you just said there: why are we looking to the NFL Emmy MBA to actually be a part of the solution here? Frank because there are the ultimate beneficiaries owing to have one's going on as they are? Yes, there are so very glad we solve that problem. Ada Andrew delight to have you on star talk thing for you: you're you're interests, Europe, you're, you're, you'd, knowledge base your enthusiasm and we will so one
Come back to you possess. This conversation is not over has been my pleasure gentleman's I fervently on our thank you, but has a right when we come back more college sports stars
hey, start off bans on March. Twenty fifth starred live is back we're returning to their historical basis, centre for the art
in Red Bank, New Jersey and tickets are on sale when right,
now for you to join us in what sort of be a fantastic shell visit, start operating dot nets last tickets to grab your tickets before they're gone? Now? Some of you may be wondering why the one the only Chuck nice be at this star talk live will. Sadly, the answer is no. I seem to have luck myself into a recording studio and have been stuck here for about three weeks,
I now come to the conclusion that this money home- that's right. I live here now, so I won't be there, but Neil will have some other fantastic comic co host, along with some very special guess, to bring the universe down to earth. So once again visit STAR talk, radio, dot, net, slash tickets,
to get your seats now and will see you at the show? Well, I won't see you at the show, because I live here now
We're back garden about, are you amateur or you profession, loudly page should do not be bade? Yes, an end
If you do a Gary many gaps, Gary had another sports thing, the do we were his one and only true love. Now you not, I suppose, professional sports guys that usually I get people to go down this road. We would go places too
you think, you're, the only woman in a professional
the boys dies life. I got news for you so what're. You reflections on this work because,
that you made a point earlier. Not everyone has equal for resources who has athletic talent, comin up in life and the poor folk, their Middleton,
folk, their rich for Rich Roque, air and the greatest of athletes are drawn from all those populations actually absolute. So but the consequences are different to each one of them. Come up in college yeah, so
so you expand on an earlier point. You are making yeah. I just. I think that when you talk about paying college athletes that this issue will not be as intensely debated, if it weren't for the fact that
these these stars primarily? Are young black disenfranchise low income kit sort of thing is: it became an issue because, particularly in certain sports
football right, which is highly represented by the black community right by community. That is itself highly represented in the under any lower income that you ve got. People who are basically poor waiting for the possible
billowy that they might have a lucrative professional contra right and where they could be make money all along, because they make an money for the college, and I think that you know if, if this were an issue that
where the majority of players were, why upper middle class or middle middle class students- this wouldn't be debated at all. It wouldn't be
as exploitation, and rightly it is exploitation. Don't otmar, no matter what s next flirtation sailor, you know I'm not
I am just kind of positive that it will not
b as bigger
the deal if you weren't for lack of a better term if these were poor black is that were being exploited. Simply because you know four advised is not a good look for America right. You know we had as they make him billions of dollars offer people;
working for free, we kind of did that only with darker, simpler than that we are weak points in the sky by their work out. The great mother slaves do trade you two year, maybe I'll where exactly so, you know, even if it is especially here in this country. I think it sir
and even though the golf course later right here in the yard next week, the ice at an interesting point. Yes, it's a kind of adamant. I go full up with the analogy, but it is a kind of
every where you
are making money offer the labour labour not only lay
we're about labour that puts their future health at risk,
absolute for injuries and the sort of thing and not the least of which has had injuries for football right, so
you're making money for that and they get oh, they get free calls tuition. You know it's like
that equal and not on the other. It is clearly not a fair trade, and I mean you know if you, if you look at you know what is a fair trade we get mad when people they don't get fair trade coffee.
If we get mad about our coffee, if it's not fair trade will certainly be a little upset when you're, you know, I'm making money off like you said that which is most important
the labour, the image and the likeness, so
you know, who I am more than is right when it it's the identity, so is labor and the person who is a bigger societal problem anyway, right people make money, offer you what you look like. We would
Preferences are examined all the rest of this, without your knowledge or consent right without the knowledge of consent. In your end and the truth of the matter, is they really don't have a choice? If you think about it, they don't have a choice. You can say what
if you don't like it, then don't play right. You know, if you think it's too dangerous the play them don't play.
Just say no genetically taste, but you know. I think that when you, when you look at this
I'm not sure if anybody's,
really looking at the totality of this, because just when you look,
When you talk about image and like this, these kids are tethered to social media.
Unlike any other generation. Now
Thou Zion Williamson this guy had like five million people too.
Alone, his social media life. You monetize that so what
happens now when you say that these guys can make money off of endorsement, says that mainly oh, yes, I
I build my social media presence and then I'll. Take that to Nike and, like I mean
could become a much bigger deal if he's floodgates. I don't see why not yet as the for the full exploitation in the positive sense of people's talent and image minutes. That's
That's America yeah! That's what the murky isn't that I'm gonna want. America is what that's what I do like about. It is the fact that you are giving you know.
As a really attenuated aside Madonna's there
I'm warning you don't I'm quoting a second which words, but to get straight to the first allow areas, the first Madonna. This is not about me
very becoming Witherspoon coverage, but Madonna's there. Everybody says that I'm being there I'm being exploited sexually and are right. I exploit my own section.
Our need. For so is it really exploitation? So, in a way, I kind of like that, if you're giving these efforts the opportunity to exploit themselves now it now.
What you said now, just America announced his business. You know, I think, be interest
If someone as a college athlete makes millions a doll
as a college athlete, but then they don't get into the pro
but now they got money right then think about bought a Mamma the whole way. They could do all the things that you do normally when you met when you make the wealth later on. Who was the kid? Who was the quarterback dead, dead? Everybody Debo, so timid about here I mean,
huge United Saxony he's gotta takes. It
without any consequences I just might
You're, a beautiful person, mainly figure them table, took me all the time and nobody had a problem with or even for Jesus.
Well, yeah. I guess you suffer Jesus. Nobody has authorized around unless you're, not christian, that's what as well here you're right fell, but anyway, you think about this. If TIM table were playing today and these rules were in effect, which, though not yet you Know- California, just past law TIM table could make a fortune if fortune, because of the following that he had personal following that he had. He will be able to explain that via social media I may think about it and if you are familiar subscribers on you too,
with this is not you, you could probably easily make a six figure salary everybody. I think so. You could easily be based on recent number that I've seen exit, yeah right and then so you're talking about kids. That could you know ostensibly make you know
some could make million. However, some could just make a living in all fairness to the business model.
Value as an image can only
live as long as they sustain wider image have value in the first place, while yes and that by sea and that's directly tethered to being a cop
player. So you know that, don't you gotta make their money in Algiers right. You gotta make money in that time here unless you then pull onto the pros and then the authority and open floodgates right, which is why a my my great likewise we spoke to enter symbolism and what eyes when I said hey? Where would we be segment? And what about college for life was to me? I think is the best answer, but that's because I dont believe there's a value you can place on education,
that's that a true education is in valuable. So here's I'd like the model,
where colleges of is the baseball equivalent of a farm system for professional football right. I like that,
I like that idea and
by the way you know you
be a little more idealistic. Then I
when my old age now
I'm just a realist. Now you say
if you give the NBA remember that stands for national
it is a matter of those is not measured. Collegiate educational association laugh with the obvious and well there's still a student furs didn't athlete. Second
This is a delusion yet is, and it's not it's just not that's, just not truest, actually were awfully first.
No athletes says I can't play this game because have
chemistry examine to take. Please give me a make up. Chemistry's advocate Amazonas, urgent right, ok and that's the priority of things, and I can't tell you
I will not mention the school or any names, but I can't tell you
when I had a basketball player in my astronomy class who never showed up how many phone calls I got
fr the coaches to tutor, I'm to say I got a phone call. Nice
phone calls or to take the test for rain, and so I'm just did. We should be honest about this right right, just be
honest your admitting them so that they can play sports and no
gonna ask them for help on their mass test right, because it can be playing sports. Let's figure that out right unless an uncle with that- and I think that you know when I say cause for life- I think that that should just be the basis. I think they did. You still get paid because quite frankly, most a lot of these guys can sustain themselves as students, while they're playing, but with this open up other
elements. For example, suppose you really hot shot student and you win sort of science, fair contests- and you know you do things
that bring attention back to the school yet you're. Still
being a school for college education in schools;
presenting you forward say: look at our students ragged. I look at this debate.
Team re one the article Martine one hour, so with this end with sports,
I, yes, it will end up correct because you're not going to get a seventy thousand state. Seventy thousand seat stadium filled with people going
calculate tat equation. I just go: go go all we ve got to
classic error. Rookie are really early arrogate to carry the two in the morning. The long division, where
I just wondering if it is more that can be thought of
you are generally when you pass a law. You want to consider all the possible ramifications. It has so that you can plug loopholes, that some person were clever than you might figure out later, or
I do, I think the strongest rules or the one that has sorted, deepen fundamental and then you work within them, which is accounts for some of the strength of our bill of rights.
Let me just how deepen fundamentally reach well, I think it right to free speech the free speech clause
allows you to sell books on the street where it allows you
to walk around with your body, painted right as an expression, and it's not literal speech but has been interpreted very broadly as a very powerful identity of what we are.
So, broadly that Supreme Court said that money is beach and therefore corporations are being deprived of their free speech rights. If you don't allow them to participate in the election process by don't
money. So where do you think it's gonna land tenure highlighted in ten years? I think I'm pretty much. Every state is gonna. Have this law or some version led by California, thereby California as as for useful and the real?
there's because once one state does it guess where everybody
the play now seen out so that benefit alarm in California, Universe, Arkansas Razor back, I'm going to name right: it'll kill people,
and it happened in his media as great as it is to play for LS you- why would I want to play there? I'm gonna go play for the trojans. That's right right
I want to make a California how'd you get paid so that its early
fast domino fast domino without a doubt, rockets lead.
Easily. I check: will nice
on this yeah interesting that deeply about it. I know your thoughts.
Four guy I'm into Heaven- is good to see interested to see where this will go. You weren't funny at all
Your whole pass on that, when this tobacco are, we gonna stop at their? This has been star talk supported it.
Add chuck nice always good to have you always get over there? Even on funding that was very angry. When you I've got it
I'm Neil Degrasse Grass, as always.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-07.