Are creativity and innovation contagious? Can they be taught? Bill Nye the Science Guy and Eugene Mirman travel to Austin, Texas to find out, with a little help from their guests Dr. Roberta Ness, Dr. Arthur Markman, and Maeve Higgins. Recorded live.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial free. Welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. Nor talk begin right now provide aid to star talk law. We have a wonderful job, for you. It is my very great pleasure said: bring up to this stage a hero to science, Multi Emmy award winning
champagne of science bill lie. That's U stage you name and of all the amazing Eugene Merman, also where this this week is moving this week to talk about the cod mission, innovation, creativity, they having to do with creating with your brain, we are joined by two professors two different universes diversities of Texas. First, professor of psychology at Ut Austin,
well, Doctor Ardmore and then with us. Also, if from the University of Texas at Houston, is Dr Roberta next Start with you You certainly may your epidemiologist has nothing to do with skin. I just want to make that point has to do with epic Democrats. I thank him. Yes, it does, but we are here time our creativity, that's right before you there's some connection. I am hoping for an epidemic of creativity that's my creativity! This sound work well for me! So ok is this something that you think is infectious and transmittable Do you think so? As a matter of fact here I mean, I think that that it can be taught here's the deal. We think we know,
actually that innovation creativity is what makes science go around right at. What's it's absolutely what fuel science, while we don T how to think innovatively. So how crazy, as that sounds a little crazy but only a little doesn't it depend on your teacher start some teachers more is anybody here? How did anybody here have a shudder baby? in middle school, so this is where they give you a bag of sugar.
You know I see someone younger but very wealthy here. You know I'm side for that. Well, it's a creative teachers, innovation or you have to innovate. In order. Take your bet, you people with you all the time that the bottom line is, and I believe, strongly in the books that I've written that not only can you teach people how to innovate, but there is a systematic way that you can people to innovate, and, in fact this is exactly how genius scientists think genius. Scientists think in the way that you propose teaching absent where they teach this,
they wish they could teach it actually genius scientists don't know how they think, which is really an oddity. I'm I've asked a number of them. They have absolutely not a clue. Hours go, ask our daughter more, so two videos are created for eleven, which enable purchasing of which she commodities, mostly its shrimp and check in paper. That's what mostly my money guidelines, a lot of money on tickets to my own so and that way I keep pace, want this line and the doctrine of tea creativity or teach out? What's going Doktor Martineau what's going on in our brains? Well, One of the things it's really important understand. We assume that when people are being created that their fundamental something that no one else is able to do, somehow brought some new process online and A tremendous amount of what's going on when people are being created is for one thing they never. So if you look at create.
People. They actually have to learn a lot of stuff and not a generally speaking, not best in the narrow area that they do their work in a lot of the really have to have some breadth of knowledge, all the little bit outside of what they do is well. So you know that the fastening, to me about about things like creativity, We often assume that it involves he's he's very elements of what the brain is doing like there's others this called working memory, which is the amount of stuff you can hold it in mind at one time. I forgot about that and we think that we could just working memory capacity. Then we would immediately become more creative. Working memory capacity than we would immediately become more creative, but about that's? No, no! No! I just children are somehow inherently creative and we stop it out of them, and I mention this because kids, they dont don't have life experience.
Right, but I gotta think what kids were kids They are willing to just try things, look stupid yeah just stupid when their small, they can't even set up this stupid. It's that there really good looks so that's certainly a part of, what's required to be created by another big piece of evidence. Really important is a very broad basis, knowledge to draw on, which is why it often takes long time before somebody in any feel goes from. Law the skills that are part of that and learning the basic material to really being able to be created in their crap so long that wine, as you asked, for example, but I'm thinking out loud in eugene- and I were talking about how long it takes to be like a good comic,
before he told me. He took seven years when I was doing for thick seriously twenty six seven and now he's changed to ten year lordly. You are already doing well she's a star in Ireland, but notice years do up, and I can't go back for legal reasons, but is there like a number like ten years doing something or we want there to be a great mother? Some of it has to do with the complexity of the domain. That you're so just like that Egypt is at its most creative right now shows that they would never you disappear or may ask specifically sure my understanding. This is from memory now for some part of it that over half of patents or by people twenty six years old and young. But
Twenty six is is not, yes, you're, saying there's! That is the numbers. You are part of what happened you ve gotta, be willing to continue, learn right. One of the things that happens in any field is you know when you're twenty six, twenty eight you you ve, been studying the latest work for most of your life. You been internal is that a lot of people I put that thing off to work and they so you know what I don't need to learn anything ever again now, just why would I for the rest? I know- and you say decide: do they just go too busy to do it. I think that what happens is your career starts, and suddenly you have all these other responsibilities and they're. Just isn't the time meet colleges and if you go to graduate school graduate school are wonderful years because they give you all this time to adjust. In your head and move it around and see how how something here might be related to something that you learn here without having to go in and
that's eventually all replaced with just tender. I do I do have to add to this- that there does appear to be kind of the sweet spot whereby people are knowledgeable enough but there are also naive enough that they haven't kind of become really ingrained in a field should actually turns out of this patent thing about twenty six main spot right, but ass. It turns out that most, no a prize work is done about. A dozen years after the end of training. So people quite young typically, when they do the work that eventually gets them. The Nobel Prize in your career, you don't get to have second half a career be able to do stuff, which is another Rob right is, is that you know by Twenty six, twenty six to twenty eight graduate school. You get a job. Then then you have you, have someone to seven
nine years to prove yourself so that you can keep your job particularly true in an academic setting after which, if you didn't prove yourself in that of time, you get set free. So it's sort of hard to be a late fee where does a new idea? Comfort like brand new building on your were guided by the way did you notice how to people on grad school? Did you hear they just resume? You're gonna get a job but yes, life. So so I think that the most brilliant new ideas come from what is called frame, shifting or frame shattering frame breaking. So what frame. A frame is your ex vexations in your assumptions such that, when new information, comes out. You you interpret it in a particular way.
All of you all of us have an enormous number of frames working in any given point in time. They are so innate to us that we don't even recognize that there are there and in order to do something that truly innovative to. To do something that is truly surprising and shocking, which is, in fact, a shadow frame. Well, genius scientists basically broke frames, almost always broke frame, so give you one example Darwin, so at the time. Obviously, when Darwin was working on evolution by natural selection, the going idea. The dogma was Creationism right I mean that kind of God created yeah every species and Darwin came along and said I don't think so. I think basically, that mother Nature really doesn't care in the slightest
comes out of her really rough and tumble environment. It's not about ideal forms, it's not about unchanging nest. Everything is changing, but there's more to it, because when we talk about having new ideas, sometimes what we need, if you're gonna do something new something. A lot of creativity involves the recombination two things that we so one of the things that often really by them changes. The way we think about things is also an influx of new data. Right a new information, so in a research and development slow and laborious in part as it's hard to create really good data and, in addition to Darwin, being away from church for a long time, yet opportunities to you both on his own added rural society meetings and things like that. All sorts of wacky creatures skeletons and things like that shape. The nature of the data that was available.
If he didn't have like that backup of education to think. If I came across a placid posts or whatever I'd be like somebody has sole duck to an altar like I, wouldn't I dont think I'd be like hang on a second evolution, like I just be like yeah put, that away frame breaking this a super hard thing to do, which is why it took Darwin quite a number of years now, interestingly enough, some of you may know that Darwin kept these wonderful diaries. So we have this literally autopsy of his of the process by which he was thinking, and This is also what I teach is that there are these tools on the way to frame breaking framed. Breaking is really hard to do. Ok, so so so? One of the tools is analogy. Another tool is reversed: soul, expansion. There are a whole bunch of them. I'll give you an example of reversal so Rutherford whose
father of the atom, do you know where to go foil, exact away and they were pop and back at him and he went home. That's really weird has that happened. Right was useless as though you shot Howard Howitzer showed a piece of tissue, exactly, and it will answer back. That's right! You would not expect. I wish also howitzer, so he he did that experiment and he was completely shocked, and he didn't know how to interpret it right. So he basically goes knee thanks for a year right and he come back a year later and Ngos. Aha, I've got it so the conception of the autumn. At that time, was that this kind of this homogeneous bunch of mass right, in fact is predecessor. His mentor said.
Kind of like a bunch of electrons embedded in English, pudding was literally yeah J J Thomson. That was literally what he said. Okay, so that's what rather protests thinkin wrath bird comes back and he goes finally wow. Actually what it is. It's like the solar system whereby the new we ass is the size of a pin. If the electorate cloud was the size of pink Saint Paul Cathedral, you ever been to London. This thing is big right. So the reversal is that Did you Thomson goes from it's a bunch of stuff to? the third saying it's the absence of stuff. It's mostly nothing will that's kind
We heard. Isn't it I mean that's a frame break nets, obviously the ideal solution, because it runs absolutely tone. We have in this room. That's right, but let me ask you this referred is one guy Judge Thompsons, wonder there are billions of people running around. For one thing, the guys who make discovered first, they know a lot, but also they have a lot of time. One of the things about creativity that I think we don't appreciate is we live in a society that wants productivity? So we want to be making slow, steady progress towards stop and show that progress, and we can show that partners. People like what's wrong with you not, but if you actually want people creator But what do you got today? What you got and what is happening now? I got it right, but it might take three months
until you may take a year, if we write about atoms and clearly the opposite Boeing, when everything we could do that in a month or maybe it's the opposition in that year, was he with ie like just thinking or was it taking actions or what was he doing in that swimming? If look inside, you look at the notes of scientists, and so we were Kepler where was he remembered, diligent he was but the thing about pepper with he gets a bad ragpickers, because mostly you think what he's just a guy that that guy, who noticed that there was a very small error in everybody says that's what they said, industry, just thought, because we have to take a break
we'll be back with radio right after you see before you. I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell there's just one and where to get out of hearing there, go to patriarch arms last star talk and support Where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen the star talk ad free you, can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never we're here, another commercial on star talk ever again, you will definitely not have to hear me saying if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying
John into innovation and you're, talking about your Han kept, you said he got a bad were not about right because, while he did was the guy, you figured out to them that the organs the planter elliptical, one of the things that we spend a lot of them was trying to figure out what was it that made the planet's go around then you didn't get it right. You was all right, but he actually, if you read his nose in this, is to Europe to your plus. About about what are you doing all that time he was trying out different ideas and a huge try. All of these ideas. Now You may not have been a happy camper while he was doing that because he is, he see what it was. But a cap or got some stuff right, cowboys laws.
We'll deal. That's right here, I was accident, occurred at a tremendous amount about the planet, but he was interested not just in the motion of the planets, but why they move, and that was in that's what he struggled with. What was it that was making jobs so along this line was when I remember watching cosmos I also universally have offered no regrets where's depicted as a kind of miserable got, is a factor of false, but he seems to be he's writing- is certainly miserable. It's really I mean by that so work. He wasn't constrained by editors of modern journals, two keys paper down to four pages. So here page in pig pages, stop where he goes often some blind alley, and then
some point it goes the caddy reader will no doubt have noticed by now. Dear I made four pages back here banging his head is he's. Writing so? Is there a connection what years this just to get an idea of what he was doing this fifteen fourteen investing in eighteen eighty scenario: here's the thing is our connection between creativity between innovation, between these new ideas and being until we stress delighted to have what everybody nowadays calls mood disorders. We used to call these pain in the neck, but now they have moved when I would say I'd like as when I'm racing and it's the way. Feeling the world's when you're trying to get to something, and you can't get to us feel lazy and I feel like bad and I feel like angry and that its never gonna com
and I ve lost is I feel, a little thing and then make something up. I don't know what happens. I would love you had some kind of because the three the worth feeling the world- and I don't blame him for me- grumpy, he was trying to figure out how the solar system work any didn't really do. It sounds like a bummer that were bought me out for a while that, like that was a horrible. We, like our whole horrible earlier this year, however, less as it turns out, there is actually data to suggest that there is a relationship between mood disorders, not only in the person but in the family and high levels of creativity, but I think, for you know, the average student, whatever it might be, This is hard work, so it really is hard work and we do have this real misconception that
great innovators kind of seem to do it through insight that, in there you got this epiphany? They do it on the spot. That could not be more untrue, do exactly as art said, they look at it and work out if they try all these different tools and cut, All these wrong conclusions generate an enormous number of different ideas and then at some point they get that insight that aha o this actually happens this way Einstein is a perfect example in nineteen o five, where he is and ass my lab, miraculous, where He produces these four papers that legally overturn physics is the mere idle year exactly re use american years, Einstein Physics crowd. But in fact it turns out, he had been thinking about a lot of that stuff. For decades I mean there's good data to suggest that he,
this thinking about his special theory of relativity for ten year- is even my special theory of relative fine and we did it a little weird didn't call it my precious. So I'd Stein about four years, many had these ideas that change the world, but are there when we think about history. We often innovation or rather invention with creativity, you can make an argument that if somebody in this a steam engine working for a long time. Right now. Is that true, is that rather generally true, that these what we take you as innovations are inventions are a result of years of messing around and and communities I'm attic. I think the other thing that's really important to bear in mind as it is rare. That theirs alone, scientist or inventor who,
all along and comes up with this stuff out of nowhere- and I think you know the steam engine, they're, two people who are credited with the steam engine? You know, Alexander, Graham Bell, presumably the inventor of the telephone, largely cuz. He got his pet just a few hours before we should re did and they knew each working together. You know I mean there are communities of people who work on these kinds of problems there hard problems, they take a long time, but they also require We are a community of people who are interacting with each other and sharing ideas. We love in this culture, proud of winter, and these are the people who did it news famous saying, was: if I've seen further, by standing on the shoulders of giants, and that's really more true about? What's going on when people are doing creative things that are actually embedded in a culture of people who are working process
ray people, people on problems, so the city of Austin is growing at a hundred eighty three people a that right. That's and it's mostly high tech jobs, so one and a few tourists. Eighty and that this actually gets to the issue. One of the issues talk about in the creativity crisis, some kind of like what's wrong with science today, so The early, the greatest invention of the last generation or too is the internet right I mean, I think, we'd all. We all agree with that and you and it's not just because it's a communication to all its because as it has created the democratization of society.
So so- and here is the problem sorry. I know I believe our attacking you yeah here is the problem science, academic science can, use crowd, sourcing wow. Why is that? I'm in crowds outsourcing is just this. On both leave about our soil doesn't use crowd sourcing. Not a little like defined planets and stuff a little Does it largely I readily? I readily admit that I stand corrected, but
but the fact of the matter, is you no kind of you can't get promoted in ten year on the basis of being part of the crowd of you, no kind of finding all those planets rate, and the reason for that is because the wave academic science works. Is it's all about idea, ownership? It's all. You know I have to prove that that was my idea. Thank you very much. I have to get a patent on it, IRAN to be first last author on publication. I d get the grant on it whatever it is, that real problem applause for first like this is the right that I was. That was somebody who was the only person out there that didn't get tenure of applied aided. I sympathise with the rest of you. Did get tenure graduations yeah, that's right, but but the fact of the matter is so so what?
happens is because you have to have yet to prove this idea ownership. You can't be part of the crowd, so really we don't use crowd sourcing anywhere near to the degree that it would be useful to use it. So this is the crisis, and its part of it, yes, is there are different. Between, stumbling on something in working life. Working hard in coming up with new ideas. Nor is it part of the same process. Lots of ways that we get knew that we get new ideas in every once in a while. You just get lucky and stumble on something. In fact, the scientific proof What it works well, actually create a lot of opportunities for certain dippy so that you will often people walk into experiments, often hoping that their pet theory.
Confirmed by, but if you re done, but if you look at where science advances it's often in those situations where you set up those circumstances hoping to find something- and you actually found something completely different in our route- is going to stand back and scratch their head right, so I think, like it, there's name literature and are too like gives you go if you're just rising. If you're like this is really They at the moment it's gonna, sell, and then you just like write some book about that irish, falling in love of wolves, search for more questions, yeah and a lot of times. The surprising later then leads to do a little bit of consternation. You gotta figure out what. How do we take this into account and that that really disrupts the field
and so anyone who is doing good research, whether it's in a scientific context or research and development aimed at solving a particular problem. This doing that research systematically is the way that you can discover things that are project, but along this line, is it going faster than ever? Are? Is our inventions being it faster than is it accelerating? The answer to that is inventions are being created faster than ever. However, breakthroughs are not perhaps just the opposite if you look at the turn of the twentieth century as compared to the turn of the twenty first century, think about what happening at the turn of the twentieth century? You know what's happening in the turnout you got. Will we heard that you got you ve got
It's time you ve got Rutherford in the Adam. You ve got Montessori, creating a completely different system of education. Got Ford, basically creating assembly. You know plants for the first time you got it there this enormous number of camp lead frame ship. Some incomplete shattering of everything that had come before and placing it was something disruptive and new. And then you have the turn of the twenty first century now, where we do have an enormous amount of innovation of invention, I'm sorry rocketing forward technology inventions rocking forward, but They don't seem to be having these same frames: these same does options of kind of he's sick knowledge. Everything we know so think about this for a second think about these. This is what makes me not able to sleep at night. These kinds of problems, climate change,
water scarcity, Alzheimer's disease, cancer, obesity, preterm, birth. I can go on and on schizophrenia depression, I mean I can go on and on what are they? What are? They really scared you. So if you weren't depressed when you came in no, but so so what are they have in common? They actually have one thing in common, which is we don't know what to do about them. We really fundamentally agree with you I love you more than life itself, but I personally think your eye so much sooner than they do now for sharing your people used to have clean water than they do now. So many fewer people use them.
Indications do now, and that is because of germ theory that basically dates back to the mid eighteen hundreds puts the Higgs Beauchamp is proven to exist, and you know what that's so. That's so again that from a discovery, layer of dark matter right, oh that's, gonna do I'm right and that as a result of invention, so I'm a green with you. In fact, that invention is rocketing forward. But this kind of the you sick understanding of a whole lot of things that could potentially deep. Six us really is not happening at this point at a rate may be required to make sure that you know humanity in the planet are not harmed. So The question is: what wire those frame shifts not happening for me. What's that,
between in intervention in a frame shifts like what what's the difference. Well, you know what I keep thinking when you're saying I keep thinking. I mean all these brainy acts who went to like the best call it. I really colleges in America and there working on like an app to make like laundry delivered faster or something like this are like there. You know a daily working at their doings finance and then there's a keeping that money. So. Maybe that's like something as this is something else too, which is which is a lot of the other things that really fundamentally change the way we think about a lot of the sciences were, were these very basic elements of our knowledge that we got it wrong and we can be corrected some very basic mistakes and We have reached a point where a tremendous amount of what we need to know next is not just how individual components work like what's an outer, but
other. How does a whole system work? So if you're gonna try to understand brain is doing you can't do that by understanding what this area the brain does and what this area the brain does brain does and with this area of have to be the entire system of the brain and the body that it's a part of an a society that ray and body occupy, although that is ultimately going to influence our understanding of the brain. And when you think about about disease processes, that's that's a system and when you know so where, at the point we have to worry about systems, you actually happen. Sure from having loan investigators, who you were having he's with very different kinds of expertise, working at very different levels of description actually collaborating on stuff. In order to really understand tiresome collaboration is good. That's how you built big airplanes,
Anyone smaller believes I do is I got you a model airplane alone agreed by storm, not tiny uranium right, so ass to things have to be confronted with problem. Why you keep asking me that that is, I think it's a little hard to tell whether you need stress. Do it or whether the active engaging in this causes, right, because I think they feed on each other right when you are in the midst of trying to solve a problem that is in fact very difficult to solve. You have this goal did you want to achieve, as so James Watt, the steam engine guy was trying to solve, and so had so you saw you try to solve this problem and that you feel unsettle when
when there's something out there, you're trying to achieve you haven't reach that goal yet and that that that feeling of being unsettled is part of what gives you enter once psychologist, usually call arousal were the goal to keep working on that they call oh now and make sense ass. What are you talking about? We aroused vices. I join with the horror story. I think your star to our common,
George, you, our creativity and innovation, and we have some remarkable people, including from Ireland and looking for a gig in Austin, made here to hear me, creative innovation professors of creativity, innovation from university of taxes, Austin, Roberta Mess and University Texas, Houston, guy s size with confusion, professor of psychology, University, Texas Austin, so we went to commercial we're touch on this big idea that we have to share ideas and they do that in the old days they would do
try that is presumed it, but now how can share information all over the place, but is theirs, about where you get together, like you have one Now, when you get together, we might do a conference call, but a turning point or is there a turning point where people were the buildings to get together like and show idea you're people like to that you need to please see other people too. Really synergies actually turns out not to be true, obviously hard cash that that's exactly right, sir. Turns out. This is really odd that brainstorming over the web turns out to be more creative than brainstorming and the same room with each other and there's a reason for that. Probably through that assertion there was
there were more breakthroughs, Then there were the turn of the century by the terminal. Century they we had, at least a rudimentary for let's call it five years ago, not fifteen years There was we have this ability to share things electronically track. You express concern about frame really well because, as I said, academia unfortunately is not engaging in this greatest opportunity of the twenty first century Freddie what you're talking about, because it is a really important point here, which is one of the things that itself. So what do you think that simple mayors and almost nobody knows how they're mine works, and yet we for a living and the more I heard, learn about the way you're mind works, the more you can use it more effectively. So one of the things we know about creativity
is that individuals, when they think got a pro about about a problem alone, diverging their ideas and that one of the things that happens when groups get together is that they came urge on I they get a consensus that concrete, creating consensus, and so what you want to do whenever you have any kind of a of a process of developing ideas is to manage that when you want people to divergent what they're thinking they can work alone and when you want people to converge, get them together, think about what was going on in the late in the late nineteenth early twentieth century, because people were necessarily living right next to each other. You pick up the phone because started Graham Bell had invented, yet they sent letters to each other, which meant they have long periods of time of divergence, followed by correspondence that might help him to converge a bit. Ok. Now
call because we could be instantly interconnected by conference. Call all of these people getting together and converging it, because it feels good to have a conversation with a group of people, ideas flow back and forth. You feel good when you leave, you think you must have been really productive when, in fact, what you were worth was you created a consensus? we have what what I feel it when and if we have brainstorming meetings for like comedy so's. I am I go in there and I'm always like agreeing with other people and then when I go home and think that I'm like eight, that's not even funny, but I didn't want to be rude. You know what Don Loris aggravated, brainstorming and then being on european art is saying is exactly the reason why the data shows that over the web people. You know in combination and brainstorming are in fact more creative because they,
tend to converge as much as you do in the group. Think of you know sitting there in kind of looking at other people's faces, but there is another aspect of this too which gets to the web, which is the more heterogeneous the group is. The more likely they are to come up with something really creative Is there a way? Is there a formula? Is there a way to manage the too close together too far partners? We are not giving people at a time to think I I think. That's fundamentally, the problems are So your students are checked off with us, a listen to them. They don't think we need to give people more. Space to engage in learning things, in trying to combine ideas in trying to try things out and in that actually requires not just talk.
On the scale of days weeks and months actually requires been able to put an uninterrupted our. Together. Now anybody works reliving almost less time. You had one full hour with nothing else on your schedule and no emails Katy the joy to deal with. There was a seven that those areas today, I don't have any money, though you know one of the things which are only one of the things that the internet provides. Is this opportunity for more people to potentially get involved in the process, but if more people to get involved in the process we have given the time to do it. And I think that you know that we in this day and whose giving soon, we gotta get. I read that, like people have to work a certain amount of areas, but they like work even more than those I worthily they don't take their vacation w. What happens in the workplace is that we must stay
your desk from working right, and so people engage in a lot of what I call a fake work right We are talking about me. I didn't mean to bring it up, but their desk and they look like you're busy but their third. There, one half a step away from the kitten video, but is rather a shame people to their desk, like that and say look busy what, because companies the cup of the same companies the chain just keep saying we want to be more innovative right. You kid! many business magazine that innovation is still a buzzword. There so happened. You can't Innovative people are constantly trying to do stuff, rather giving them an opportunity to step back to read something
thing will give it hidden. Video casual can be confident that that's lemon juice put em industry so so reality, an environment that is at all conduce to people engaging in creative act in part, because we must stay- hard work for somehow led to creativity, which is a misunderstanding it away with the mine. Ok, you brought me back again to this question. Is there an optimism? Is there a formula? Is there a certain number of hours? You should be left alone, you should leave your workers or, if you're, let's say to see all the non profit involved in space exploration. There is a certain amount of time. You should let people mess around on their own and is a certain amount of time they should be brought together to
coffee House meeting. Well, yeah. I think I think that, for one thing you want numbers done what your engineer now, but I think it's not just numbers it. When the when the group feels like its explored the what what you can When will you feel like you're, repeating yourself internally, because you're you're working alone. That's the time to get together with some other people to start. So what is it we need to know, but both you guys go guy. What what is it we need to know too you climb both climate. We can become more creative, that you can teach creativity. You can induce creativity, so he was what is I so? Here's the deal, forty years of research and hundreds of experiments, text, shown that you can in fact teach people to be more creative, so again using tools. Getting to the point of frame shifting
these programmes, these training programmes than that have been time will we show pretty consistently that you can get to generate more original ideas by two to three fold, I mean it's a big big deal, There's a lot of things culturally. That makes it very hard for us to do good to do good creative act. One of them is that our education system, the thing it teaches us is to minimize the number of mistakes that we may do so, it means, if you, if you don't want to pilot you most of his arm but but but actually we we to be able to go. We let's put it this way. You would be a little worry if this this got forty times are powerless.
Today's almost created pilot passengers on there are certainly jobs prize, doing the same thing over and over again exactly right, but but create one of them. One of the things you have to be willing to tolerate. Where, when you're doing something created, is making mistakes? Failing mistake, minimization right you're wrong as possible, so what we can do is to make people more comfortable with error, but is innovation is there something different now, then time of the last century, every losing our creativity, we going more creative, our machines making. More or less created you
Capitalism makes us very far about making mistakes? Because the fact of the matter is you know it You ve got kind of a quarterly bottom line that you ve got a hit. And you don't you real trouble with your shareholders, and so, if you're working on some project and saying to your boss? Ok, yeah, it's true, I fail blast quarter, I fail this quarter, but man next quarter. I mean I've been thinking about this. Really really next color, I absolutely for sure, are gonna get it. It doesnt sit role well. So that is why we have the science closure by the way- I was working for people that we're obsessed with making money every quarter, you can do that when you're and employees or else it will take you haven't they grow sheets of paper. You want
You can do that when you have a manufacturing process but when you're trying to make up pilot for business just as a third of the size. Competitor. You can't do that in four months, Well work right. This expectation that you can do things quickly is, I think it's been a long time but coin, you can change. That is that true, you kind of you to professors of creative. Claim that there is research that shows that we can change. This always do I think that we claim that we can change people's necessarily. Maybe we can but necessarily total We eliminate the fear of failure,
Although I wish we could I mean I wish we could have understood, liberate the fear. Failure rightly wave pale today that certainly not that's, not agree that. But I don't mind if it that's right. I am minded. If it happens, is what's really important, if we want to punish negligence, not right We really want to get people doing the things that we think are related to what it is. That is going to open. We leave, since it took to create about, comes science really needs to have or wants to have kind of a conversation in a sentence with society or certainly its legislators? look says yeah that says, you know that the price to failure, and I understand that but there is also a price tonight.
Failing, and that is missing the opportunity to really solve these great threats to humanity and our planet. More and more from, we should listen to or commercial free joint start compatriots for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear, learn more at patriarch dot com slap, star, talk, radio
Transcript generated on 2020-01-25.