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StarTalk Live: The Particle Party (Part 1)

2013-03-28 | 🔗
How does Neil deGrasse Tyson celebrate the discovery of the Higgs boson? By throwing a StarTalk Live “Particle Party” with Bill Nye the Science Guy and Kyle Cranmer, one of the CERN physicists who discovered the Higgs.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip. The commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial free. With this is filled with secrets in industries leaving us with many questions to be answered. We find ourselves searching for those answers as the very fabric of space science and society are converging here for the first time. What worries are you just recently the domain the brakes daddy, you going to do Grandma South Nasty Brenda, get lab
Yeah another Superman veiled evening of STAR Talk, It is now my great pleasure to bring out new I'll. Try wow, from thirty Rock Scott adds the meal welcome to the party.
A party and the political priority it's gonna be about the Higgs Opposing- it, I can only take you so far and that subject we had to go to the folks who really this work and we went to and why you, Professor Kyle Grammar, come on out. This is one of the scientists who works at Sir and I got a blank cheque here and join me in the warmest New York. Welcome for the man I
Sir William, to the rest of the world. He has been so. Let's get this political party started, you may remember the date was July. Fourth, I tweeted that morning I don't know you saw. My tweet was on the day America chooses to declare its own greatness July. Fourth, Europe, who had just announced the discovery of the particle that
morning. Europe reminds us how much America sucks at science. Well, I'm just saying you know we could have done We would remind you, as you have done, I building the superconductor super collider vs cancelled in nineteen. Ninety three, now three plus Tansy energy. Yes, so what happened Kyle with the visits I didn't. I was still in high school. I do physics Actually, I was just graduating and on my way- and I was going to school in Texas, even college, and I will go to walks a happy and was excited about it until they were digging a whole for hundred super collider far they made the world's largest mushroom farm. Underground. Yes, so now, you're, like Philip physicist, you been a professor physics added value for five years. You got your phd here, but you are in residence at CERN. Sir
stands for what the centre for European Research, nuclear hair and french in all backgrounds are backwards. I so let's get a primer go in here. I wanted, as we understand the structure of nature. Ok, so last I look. We had four forces, so Roma, this is, what the forces are rights, others gravity that family, we all know, and we all know and love you there's no unloved gravity yeah like see, ok, good, she's innocent, very let the record show and that's pretty far microphone was a sheaf of papers that onto the floor. I dropped it to the floor and it felt there would wait there's more. Not only was the paper pulled toward the floor by the gravity of the earth was ever so slightly coal, that could you, may I ask what stop the papers from going through the stage that Berrigan question: it was largely the electromagnetic interaction Heinz Adams together,
in other words, electromagnet dryness? Also, what's the lights that are shining on us right now why your cell phone works? Like a pretty much all of chemistry, I says to force that's right! The other two are things that most people are unfamiliar with, such as their inside at the nucleus of an atom? There's one called the strong nuclear for. I bet it strong yet right, you can actually tell a riddle that a lot of people would know. You know that positive charges want to repel each other, and you know that Adams have a lot of proteins in them. So I dont those protons display apart the strong force where'd you get the idea for the name. Well, I think it's me as is really strong, ok, there's a force and then there's the weak whereas in that one has to do with things like radioactivity and why the sunburns things like where it why the sun gives you a sunburn or whether sun itself burn either assertive related One thing leads to another after all, but to use avert burning when it so fusion in a star. You know it
about stars burning their nuclear. Yet sort of chemist just want to kick your ass for, say that burning is a chemical reactions, not nuclear energy but you know our dig it out. I dont know what your arguing about your both about the word burning, apparently and Niels Ban on beef. For people who are here so that we get twelve particles. The reason the chemists are really mad, as they have a chip on their shoulders. That periodic table is not the right way to think about the universe and when its Meda is really fundamental heart is a posse gathering here for you later, so it's a great it's just, not the fundamental for that. We have the fundamental picture that we have as much more concise. We only have twelve fundamental particles, and everything in this room is really just made out of three of them. Ok, so give us the amatory there's six corks, There are six other things which go.
Know what they are. I dont know what they are you're, like the words that there's a Chinese. There are things. Like the electron leaped, HANS everything's, on the UN's it's not the Higgs bosun its they expose on reptiles, which include Electrons and then there are sort of heavier brothers them you on and the Tao what you may not have ever how does an ending Owen just in case on eleven months. It would include positrons right and all of these twelve have antibiotic also anti matter. Our partners have another twelve anti matter, counterpart natural, but we don't really count them as twelve more because there are just so related to the other ones that we just group them together. Ok, so it's like the good particle in the bad part, so, like owl man to Batman. While sorry I gotta, leave now
into a very narrow, nerd audience in a very narrow nerd, yeah, but there's like wild birds. It is legal boy, and that's me: what is our man? You do. What have you got your evil in the modern DC universe? There's an earth to alternate reality where Batman counterpart would be how a man who is part of the injustice around.
The future of space and the secrets of our planet reveal this star time and now they're the force carrying particles. What you got there, that's right! So each of the forces have these four scaring particle so that for the electromagnetic interaction the particle of light is called for, The other ones have not so great name said the weak force. Has the w and Z bows on what worked a z come from justice from because it happens after his w. I guess I don't know
doesn't happen right after you, its problem. You know X, Y and then right there, I'm a scientist, not new person. Now he petition you're telling us how it is. You didn't make up these mistakes, and then you ll like this when the strong force into so strong has the glue on like glue. For obvious reasons, I get why sides is not popular gather seemed like a profound absence of literacy among physicists, It was only by child genial, another on their work, at least a reference to a poem, I guess citizens when, but that aside what are the twelve electrons the new on the Tao, and then they have things called neutrinos associated terms, electronic Trudeau town at Rio, new ones,
and then of are the cork says: there's the up and down. The charm and the strange and the top and bottom, and which of these twelve, is considered the Judas particles, on top of all these tore particles. There's a God part. Well, actually, always on our allows its godlike particle. There is another point: which sort of key to this whole story that we have on the agenda that's actually the best proposal, however, a different man. Yes, oh there's this! article, which is why we're here today called the Higgs both on and its key, like those concerns, and see if this whole picture and if it wasn't there, none of the theory would. Altogether? You know talking about atoms and like why this piece of paper didn't go through the floor. There is no expose on Adams wouldn't form in the same way in the universe. Would just look nothing at all like we know it to be what we couldn't observant
We wouldn't be here that there be no bass right. Let me know the living on paper do not go through but hold this verifies or helps enhanced the veracity of yeah, like the universe, is probably ok the way it is whether or not we called it the Higgs and whether or not we built this thing, I'm looking for. What were you just wouldn't understand it. I mean I'm in the universe. Is here obviously, but I still don't understand that if you call it a Higgs like particle right now, that's just conservatism on the side of the scientists. As you know, we already they tell you could five segment have you ever bars outside talk now, there's no friends, there's no that there is a new particle. Even the director of certain is now use the word discovery, which is the first time we use that since ninety ninety five- and this is the most significant discovery, my lifetime. So this is a I water, my heels
when using high water mark. So on that day, what were the parties like n y. You we had about twenty five people at three o clock in the morning, and you know we had several bottles of champagne so that the latest you guys various data. And also the day before the announcement at CERN formula I have also made an announcement that they were seeing. Hence She really live out of Chicago exactly in the data they collected prior to having been shut down, which was roughly a year ago, formula judgments down the lab is running, but the large accelerator that does this kind of physics is off. Why think stem cell I mean I've been funding was stopped and I think it would seem that it is a sort of reached its limit of its power origin. We were getting too close,
use their examination. That's for goodness. So let me ask you this Kyle. If I may, is it not a coincidence that this announcement was made on the fourth of July? I think it was available coincidence. It was an avoidable coincidence. It was both a coincidence and unavoidable coincidence, the situation I have no idea what that sends me they could have, they could have done it differ. Day, but also its firing. You don't think there is sticking to America. It's a mystery wrapped in a reverts to American America cannot celebrate finding God and fourth of July right. I mean This situation was that we got a lot more data, a lot faster than we expected to, and no one expected we were going to be claiming discovery now without it was going to be more like December anywhere a time but the accelerator and so well. We got so much data that right before this major conference you held in Australia. Everyone can include under the fact that we are like
wanted going to claim discovery, Austria, they didn't want, have it on their home turf and they was to have it between their home turf, and there was basically no time between when everyone was flying over. I think and the time that that decision Made so I think it could have been held on the third which would have been nice, There are certainly things in the media about there was it didn't, make nearly the spy Capital Eve Geneva, didn't celebrate our fourth of July, properly filter Oh that's why you're calling it a God particle the store? we have. The name comes partially from book that Nobel Laureates Leon Letterman Route, which is called the God particle Origin The name was chosen partially by his publicist, an editor and there's a story that he wants to call it the goddamn, particle because you so hard to find by clearly God particles, alot of books? other people, including myself, that are very happy with using that word. It looks like there's some sort of competition with science and religion or something tat would never
Science is co, opting God now right. I think the thing that is true is it the universe. Would just look nothing like it does its particle didn't exist, even though this is something that tells us. Why there's something still nothing! Some people go that far. I just did you did the people, they think a lot about string theory and things like that. There's a tie in here in terms of why we're here and what it means to exist and the Higgs has a very big role to play and that whole story. Why, which is so hard to find? Had you looked under that? Paypal is somehow related to this mystery of quantum mechanics, which is that when you put something together in nature, in its most fundamental away. Has this funny probabilistic like why is it so hard to flip ahead six
RO or something like that? And it just you mean of a coin of a boy lair applying this raising to live. I had six times harder with a coin So anyway, you gotta do experiments and they don't always come out exactly the same way, because nature has probabilistic a statistic: a feature right and we are always. We have no ability to control this part precisely explained by quantum mechanics, That is what should happen and it tells you you're gonna have to try really hard to you doing the experiment. What does that entail? Like you push the button The monkey comes out like what happens outside of there's this ring under the ground? That's about seventeen miles around its filled with superconducting magnets in all sorts of wizardry. Engineering engineering with that's all right, miss
snow Marvel Ring Harry Potter, so the wondering yes, wizzes one to with wizards its ruling, all of you right now, and it was as these circles around their caught protons, essentially the speed of light, and they collide with a couple spots inside of this ring where we have these huge particle detectors, which basically act like big digital cameras and when these particles run into each other, it so hot. It's like the moments after the big Bang and others enough energy to ignite the production of new particles. It's not that it's breaking apart! It's actually making new particles, and you have a chance of very small chance to make a Higgs both on and sell harmony. I know that they have to do this. I look this one up beforehand, so that I'd be prepared so that the EU work there. What do we have to look it up? You with people who, in things say? No, no! I just I tried to come up with some good always to describe as a further science,
We had tended fifteen's one with fifteen zero behind collisions sacks of behind yeah, so that a million billion collisions so that we have had in the last two years and of that we made basically thousands issue of explosions. That's hard to call. You ve made thousands and then an here just now thing That's why he was like we could have entered the July. Third, you basically like any cop show the coroner shows up and the copies like what's causing death and there is like a guy with his head bent in there's a shovel and the coroner refuses to make a finding the lab, even though clearly the guy's head was messing with a shovel
something about scientists right now. So to put it into perspective, if you took a large limp excise swimming pool any filled with sand, there would be trying to find a thousands red, colored sand, grains and swimming pool of sand. So that's our job nuts, harder than the harder than trouble it sounds knew of all, and I would have maybe told people July second about it go secret for you, when I consider singing all of the ads on this shell Just one way to get out a hearing there go to patriarch arms last started, talk and Porthos at the five dollar level or higher to listen. The star talk ad free you can Download all current episodes into your favorite park has player, and
ever hear another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not after hear me saying if you support us at patriarch, dot com last our talk I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying.
Green space inside it down to earth you're. Listening to start OC. Tell me about superconducting, wires, superconductivity and Joe to get a particle was going nearly the speed of light to turn a corner is easy, and so you need a relative. I've talked to arm and I've talked to him. Utters a method. Bright, attacking yeah basically need powerful magnets in the way you make powerful magnets as you need. A lot of electrical current need a magnet because a charge particles, it's moving, responds to the main Emel curve. You will curve that part of that's right. That's how, like the old
and tv sets worked in the big, see Archie bodies. Do not a kid you take a magnet up to the two Ryan and you could totally mess with the faces merits loved that sometimes it left the permanent press. That was cool, but these are reams of electrons and they would avoid the magnetic field. It was early Photoshop Well, you can like, but I gotta say the origin for me- is cooler than so Michael Ferdy. Eighteen thirty one has got a magnet in the coil of wire, that's connected to another coil of wire and the compass moves and the woman comes up to him and sense of what use is it and he says, of what use is a newborn bait? Yes, newborn babies, not that useful, but unity make these incredibly powerful man. If you need a lot of electricity lot of current and away
you get, that is by using superconducting cables and what its super conductivity it's a new superhero, I'm superconductor! You know, I mean it's basically a wire that when you get it really really cold, it has no resistance, not just a little resistance, no resistance whatsoever, and that is a quantum mechanical quantum mechanical effect. Also to do it, though, you have to be sitting about two degrees above absolute zero, so this is colder than the out one point: nine Talbot mailed it was a risk work it out. I went players came back, we're just put right and Kyle. The universe is warmer than that at two point: seven: three degrees matter. Exactly that deep space like in the middle of outer space, it's warmer than it is in the middle of the OECD,
I see, as far as we know, is the largest and coldest extended structure in the universe. Ok, so you get this things really called fabulous. Coils of wire. You buy a tank of hydrogen liquid helium. We have some very large fraction of the world's helium supplies of yeah yeah Macy's day parade has the rest is right. The result of nuclear fission. So do we have a tank of hydrogen and we electrostatic. We get these automatic that veterinary use hydrogen to get to see the beam itself, the beam of particles, Europe needs to be laughed at me. I mean, I know how it feels, but what does it mean? I walked right him about. It's amazing for the complexity of this whole thing. The beginning is really just some scuba tank.
Scooby taken a guy goes: that's legs heroes. Were you just press a button? Is ethical valve, more exacting and then its rays, one hydrogen little hydrogen so sure source of protons? That's our source approach themselves comprises three quirks. Threec works. Democrats do upside down. That's ok! So that's where you get your protons, because they hydrogen nucleus is approaching, nurturing
so now you gotta, you got your superconducting coils read you get current going through your high magnetic field. You curling these babies, you accelerating these baby. Don't you have another being the only other way exactly? Yes, there's the magnets actually have two holes drilled in them and there's two different magnetic fields and we have to get in all of this working together. So if I want to get these things going very near the speed of light, I time the car resigned, the current on these magnets book in sequence, right in fantastically fast sequence, that's right! Now! yeah you this will have on Kyle. Let me ask you this: to Brooklyn, and now look here in the house can impressed with Brooklyn, but I grew up in the city of washing.
Ok, when I was in junior High, a guy got shot. Ok, now, everybody's doing but it was how do we then get the particles going as test or nearly stresses light? I believe I know the answer, but how can we time the magnets to keep up with those like the greyhound chasing the rabbit? So you know like of use or cell phone there's electromagnetic waves right, there's all sorts of waves going back and forth between your phone and sell tower microwave microwave. So we use essentially the same kind of idea there just very, very, very intense, so there is some sort of way that's travelling along this beam and that's what gets them going faster than we have big magnets to help them turn to get the beam to be very intense. We have to add more and more protons
It's amazing, because a sort of like trying to merge lanes on a freeway, except where you driving at the speed of light the engineers etc, are so good at what they do, that they can merge lanes from protons from booster accelerator into the big accelerator and put them in the same little bucket that you have didn't have seems go around each other, like breeds of hull but I believe I know the answer, but how can we time the magnets to keep up with those like the ground chasing the rabbit? So you know like of use or cell phone Billy, two different beams that are right next to each other. They don't really circle around each other, but they do try to recycle the magnetic field from one to the other, so that you don't need twice as much electricity by the way how much electricity discern used when its correct Geneva dim when they put with what we have a deal that we basically only run in just say no
you gonna, like explained on marking the secrets of you world and everything orbiting around it story. Tat! Welcome back to start operating on your hosting the elder grass Thyssen you're listening to our show recorded lie, but the Bell House, in Brooklyn New York on July, seventeenth, two thousand twelve, along with Eugene Mermands Scott Adjutant, Sarah Vowel onstage with me that night were built. I, the science guy and call crammer particle physicist in this next segment: cow. Explain.
How much energy it takes to run the experiments at CERN that led to the discovery of the Higgs, both its equivalent to a small city, the amount of power that require a lot of it is going and takes a learning. The parcels and an even more goes into keeping this ring. So old, it's like a huge airconditioning. That's what you're saying so get much hotter than the sun right, I really millions were they thousands or millions of times are hotter than the sun unites either when safer, it's so that so one point nine calvinist cold enough to keep it from blowing up the earth is what you're saying melting, the earth or, what's going on this list, was picked up. Why aren't we all dead from your dumb experiment? Ass, like Kyle, Miss Backup Kyle me truthfully. Are you making many black holes at CERN? Aspires No, no, what we actually, how comforting
as we know, we don't think we're making earth destroying exactly we'll all be the first to answer any. Actually, Europe will, six hours earlier now I mean there's an we aren't, making anything. That's like a black hole, like you think of it like something in the centre of our goal. These swallowing upstart. That does not have that. That is definitely not happening. You bearing a different kind of Blair has a chance. Mr kind of you, I make this sort of quantum mechanical version of a black hole which is very tiny and not gonna hurt you can in a race your memories of it's in your brain. That is one of the few travel nations that we talk, not scared, desert. You took her in the coffee wound. We know you talking stuff coffee loud,
there's. A lot of coffee has really more power than any site that real than it around and talk about like. How can we weapon eyes this? I think, for the most part, you got a pretty pacifist, crowded, sir, but everybody notice what an undertaking this is: their powering, a small city, to send scuba tank of hydrogen in a giant ring to unlock the next secretive, the universe that is pretty cool. I have to say that is a remarkable use of our intellect control. I thought you guys when you hit the button
on the accelerator. Do like then wait for the moment when they collide or is it just instantaneous areas of I got you they, whether the very poorest collisions. There are great photos of people when they saw the very poorest collisions and it was just in a thousandth of people throughout the laboratory. Justino take you throw the switch and the beams were going and then at some point they have to bring the beams quote into collision. You know, so they have to try to steer the beam, so they collide with each other booster magnetism. They can steer where the beams go with these magnets in and it's very hard because the beam of particles than a human hair, that's incredibly tiny and then to get them to close its approach on it's a lot that are right. You know it's just asking. I don't know no you're right there's a whole lot of proton, so one proton is incredibly small but the beam of protein the pledge of broken leg. Eighty, nice of you.
After a year right. Is it never stop to do I just like this, which one day and then just it lays a levy runs almost all your long. We have a deal that we don't run during the winter because that's when Europeans heat their houses, where Americans usually cool their houses in the summer, so that electricity load and Switzerland's mainly during the ones that they're going around that all the time I mean the numbers are just mind: boggling, so they're running essentially constantly the particles. Quite forty million times a second. What that's every second or is it when you every second swing now, essentially constantly for two years with some shit?
but forty million times a second for two years better. If you got a problem with it, so it's a phenomenon. Each one of these collisions there are thousands of particles produce flying into our detectors. We take sort of a three dimensional digital photo of what happens each one of those is sort of similar to like a really nice digital camera in terms of the file size except Bragger. Forty million of them are seconds so it's like if every American got a nice digital camera and took a photo every second untried, uploaded to Flickr. That's what the amount of data that we have to deal hard safe site like accurate, the twenty million toys
well, you know most of them are so exciting, but then you see one that looks like the Higgs and how do you know what you ve got something interesting and windows? You can't go through twenty million dollar. You answer that. I want to clarify here, you're smashing protons. Then the proton disappears because the particles become energy and then the energy becomes particles. Again, that's right. It's sort of use equals empty Squared writ large at the focus of these two colliding beings network with any illegal thing is primary right now you can't see It sets a fine writ large and basically Eagle and see Squared happenings.
This is starter. Usually you think about nuclear bombs or nuclear power. We love it. You take a little, you take a little bit of mass and you turn into a whole lot of energy. What we do is we take a lot of energy and we make a very little bit of mass. So there's this brief period where the protons collide, there's so much energy that had just sort of vapor rises under this funny quantum mechanical funny, evanescent state that can you crystallize into some new kind of particle, some new, very mass of particle that has existed since right after the big
and then nothing doesnt last for long and decays along our two hours. No, it's funny, I'm in the numbers. There are things like tender, the minus twenty three seconds and things like that. Very, very, very small numbers. So, You get excited about this, you look at it. You love watching, makes particles die, you monster. So how exactly do we detect these things right. So it's there for just a split second or not even a minute decays and it can decay and a lot of different ways. So one way that can decay into two particles of light to photons, and then these part, fly and had architecture and words like a solar cell, some sort it similar. To that I mean in this sensitive proton, hits it at least some energy, and we measure that energy. Resource around this interaction point with all sorts of sensitive detect, and these things are usually tense. These high right. Yet this like the size of a sixth rebuilding fool of electronics. So there are enormous and there are three
feed under the ground, so the civil engineering involved and actually making this thing was also just fantastic ass. I now gets radioactive right. You can't be around it. I mean it. Did you have you kid before you started working? If, sir we're? When will you kid born? I don't wanna, make him angry ASEAN is very careful about radioactive. We make some particles like neutrons that make things radioactive, and so we have to be careful so, and you should be careful. Does the detector zone the sick story, I on Crete, tub become radioactive. It does you know, there's like a half life associated too. To get out of here? Yes, yes, and there are retinal scanners in a normal b, Ok, go down there and evenly radioactive people, can gonna radioactive people so ably about whose eyes have been pre approved, better ass natural, so people were those cimeters badges two decades very heavily regular, however, similar churn. What
Joseph, not that I don't know no, it's not. I meter know the dose of radiation doses haven't issue with those because you who doesn't No, it's that tells you how sterile you have become wise that useful it's after the fact. You turn it in at the end of the day, they measure a joke, and what do the world full of radiation. I mean I'm, not MR miseries Homelike, while it's happening well, it tells you what's happening in the geologic scheme of things yes. What I mean compared to the half life of radon gas is pretty good wit. Where do you? from where it was about those like it's annoying at inhabited Starbucks, well like. I just want a lot
there'll be back up a few months. Why should we believe this news reports were not many months ago CERN released a news report about faster than light neutrinos that was then later retracted. Yet now that's a good question. I'll say that around the physics Department and in my view there were in a lot of discussions about this and a lot of theorists that are like. I cannot believe that they published a paper. I cannot believe CERN made any news about this. You know it's clear. You're wrong. Einstein told us this everything we know about the world's this way, but it's not the first time. That's experimental science has turned everything we think we understand about the world on its head and that's how science works you do experiments you know might have been true. I could have been true if you saw how it was presented at Sir,
I was cool. It was like we are coming to the scientific community to say that we see this thing that we don't understand. We spent six months checking and cross checking and doing everything that we could and we can't figure it out. So we're bringing to you. You sent neutrinos to ITALY underground through the ground through the ground, and it got there faster than the speed of light by just a very, very small and what I heard that they knew it was wrong because nothing arrived early in ITALY. Ok, that's what I heard. I don't know so Kyle. Does that mean that it right before was sent? No, not before I say players who s pretty cool? Actually, I should say that that's relative my understanding. There were using clocks from global positioning satellites and they didn't take into account. There is a difference from one to the other. That step was taken into account very, very carefully. The very sad part is that, after all of this thorough checking,
The problem was the dope of possible problems of a loose cable, our failures or mechanical firms the engineers master, title. My all business, connectors or troublesome Business model son story there there, Carlo Rubia, who won the Nobel Prize and was a famous article physicist, what specific discovered he was involved in the discovery of the w and disease, and he really kind of pushed idea of having these collider in the first pillar. Where was out and when that was at CERN in the eighties, but his son was on the experiment that reported the faster than light trainers, and he was on the experiments that then followed up. No they're not going faster than the speed of light economic. Imagine what their thanksgiving conversations and when we come back we're just gonna talk about where we go from here. What is the future of the Higgs Portable will have any application or is you're wasting its ten billion dollars to keep you in when we come back,
start. My gavel, my old job, the organs. Which you can listen star talk commercial, free, joint star talk on pay, for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com slap star talk, radio
Transcript generated on 2020-01-25.