Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode commercial free. The American Museum of Natural history in New York, city and beaming all space and start were science up under home near the recycling. I'm an astrophysicist if the American Museum of Natural histories, Aden, planetarium and I've got with me my coat Eugene murmured, Eugene, theologian, it's great debate, professional, maybe your voice on Bob's, burgers, yeah, yeah yeah you get around. I do. I do. I do at least two things maybe more so so thanks are due. This went like on tv now. I know it's great exciting

normally we do this on the radio he's unshaven he's a little sloppy. I've never seen the guy. This new have a cloth or a hand. That's out today. You know not happy this science fiction science fiction younger than you any favorite movie. I do if I love, while the one I love science fiction, but I'd say a lot: a superhero we STAR Trek superhero superhero. I don't know that I what I dont want. I want the responsibility: it is a bit responsibility to be as if you believe, even have, even if they did you basically like a quarter of the stuff they to do in the movies, its exhausted, etc. So STAR Trek to our track. I love. I love time. Travel wasted. Time, travel better, like astrophysical, legitimate, yes, yeah, yeah and walls Favorite, sometimes allotted time travel thing, Billig, pretty realistic. Tonight we're featuring my interview with Christopher no Christopher no

came through town, yeah. I've snared and put him in my office and I'm Milton for forty minutes of, we also see off what you have him. Take it like a top ends to find out, which reality were end. You once always movies right handling. A bunch of it was inception right. To know whether you wear your dream. Being or in the fifth world. I guess so. Of course we talked about how he thinks about time and space and time, and that would have been enough just to talk about inception, but is most recent movie is interstellar interstellar more, not only time and space, it's especially relative, now I know some relativity yeah, ok, but I don't know how much in comparison addition relativity yeah. I can do that. However, I don't count myself as an expert in relatively I got. I have to reach out into the ether to find such people, and we did

that, with my special guess, Jan Eleven Jana welcome to start talk. June. Eleventh is professor physics in astronomy, Barnard, college and judging you like all grown up, because when I first met you an undergraduate Colombia s just telling somebody. I didn't think you remember she would like this. You just saw metering EMO professor wrote, books and expert on relativity and cosmology, so you would be linked up to new thing. Writing your peach tv sets an order that was inhabitants, I stopped so you're, full fledged cosmology and people like paying you to do this. I get paid to do our duty to do well it if you think about black holes in the birth of the universe, and so you, unlike the right person, just think about it,

talk about mobile, see how goes JANET. You have stars on Europe. Do you know I knew you were going to wear a thematic tie. You know you were so I thought I would match. This is all I know. No one very clear. You know we're accommodation will go to have every possible cosmic wormhole work, holes and guises. That's my lawyer. If you're getting like was on your, if some because I know from what we want to really talk about is the science of the film interstellar are useful and interesting lily- and it say it's it's quite a eight, an orgy of relative it was very say when Matthew Mokanna, he cries. Would you be like as that physically?

at last. There is actually applied in the realm of physical yeah. That was the part that I was not exist. So what I did was one when I started talking Christopher, no and he's not himself a scientist ease of moving director and producer, but always like knowing if there's some influence, some teacher somebody who sensitized you to this whole world of science, find out? I think a lot of my interest in physics. One was about ten. I was really watching dirigible cosmos, That was huge when you saw young? Oh, my god, I'm once posts STAR As you know, that lake seventy down the shuttle was but got the first time in the air. It was absolutely regional councils was making eighty whitcross run and I've been watching you feeling oh yeah, filling in a big way, and I think I mean it's a testament to the kinds of things that that you're doing and in so doing educationally, but I

really set ten eleven year old. You know you get really facile bought. What I found in school was I reached a point where the mathematics became a book, and I wasn't as interested in mathematics is. I was in English in writing and in that kind of thing, and so it's worth is exhausted- depend more on the math. I should have lost that's why you there's a lot of good physics, whether you can follow just cause. It's really cold to think up exactly right and after that the kind of done right, glare rest of your life, but at least it was in their percolating yeah. Very much amendment. Will this great experiments and news Lucy do little rolling little? balls down now here lies and things happen. They made things out of lead.

Before we knew that we make a stupid and ignores all Christopher knows so here you know he studied english literature and call, and so one of my big things is to get more artists interested in science so that they can fold the science into their art and take us to new place and- and you re wrote a novel area that that's you are not your problem Sir Cosmology is not to be confused with cosmetology clear, but you are not over that that some artistic expression I mean. I think that this idea that we have to choose at some stage in our lives is kind of silly. You know a week we go through this process were set but we have to decide we're gonna, be one thing or the other when actually most of us are really a combination of those things right, Christopher? No, it is right, it's the equations that really makes them.

So dreary several uniform. I do in these don't say it's beautiful, adjust its etc. Way in such an exciting part of it. I love doing the mathematics. I think that is exactly the fork in the road you get that fork in the road where your mesmerized by the universe, you discover the Matthew either hated her. You love just a fork in the road, and you pick it up only better for if we can do better than very matter but so the mathematics for you get apparently not for Eugene is not for artists, one doesn't need to be completely mathematical. Fluent yeah, none, the less basque and majesty the cause. I mean I love, algorithms, I'm not an eighty logarithms to basically love them to base for base

I might be saying a thing, that's right so, but what the equations do if you want to take this one step deeper. It's like you part the report, the curtains, this veil of the beauty of the universe and there's the machinery we're waiting. There is the language. No, I get we wouldn't have like stoves in electricity and fridges and stuff and cars, I'm very happy with science Actually the math is actually a pleasure to do the math and at some level in others, is confidence, because one thing follows the other. As you say, following the chalk, and then you have, confidence. When you at the end of the line following work, the talk you know yet the chalkboard and you

title court. I still have to live it up. I want to I saved one from a damn near. There does not relics, you know with Christopher Nolan. He opened a new portal to moviemaking storytelling that scientists for people to scientists are people think about any site. Fine siphoned moving from the fifties, who is the scientists, is the crazy person behind in the lab coat weary hair? No, you don't care if you're in love Look. You kids, it's only in the seventies when scientists started feeling and almost always, the scientist is like collected by a bad person, were the scientists themselves or evil and want to take over the world to destroy the world and, in its result, scientists save the day. Not politicians is not leaders, it's not it's just people who who get the job done and who know their math and visit

then that was because you know, and then in the end, the plot line, they they visit and actual planet, and we recently had the announcement of a whole boat load of exile, planets discovered by the Kepler telescope by the way that was not an accidental discovery of the telescope. It was conceived designed and built to discover earth like planets around some like stars. So the fact that this catalogue exist with such richness of what could be twins two earth is not itself a surprise, but the fact that so many planets do exist, I'm ready make Gimme the list and the day we can travel through space. We know the warder planets that we might. We have an order now planets we go to help their lives as a great question, so there are planets that you can say. Well, ok, it's about earth sized level of checking that box. Is there an atmosphere? We don't fully know that just yet, but if it does, that would be a good thing. Doesn't it doesn't? Can you breathe the atmosphere? Is the planet? The right distance

star JANET. You have a way to get two one. Now we really don't have a vague and theoretical Amy. We. We know that, even if you travel at the speed of light, the nearest Exo Planet. There are a certain number of light years away, so even travelling at the speed of light going. Ladies and gentlemen, while I think now actually think I think really quite close to us made within a few hundred light years, we should be having the healthy number of exit Yes, if you draw that's what I'm saying a couple hundred year, the radio ear I would still building a hundred years only if you're going actually at the zoo. And by comparison Voyager, which has gone the furthest of any human made objects just breaking out of the earth. Solar influence it'll be ten thousand years before it comes across another. STAR system, because we're not going anywhere near the speed of light right? In fact, when Voyager did its tour of the major planets, we covered that the moons of those planets. We're more interesting than the planet's themselves,

I owe when Europa and in all of these moons volcanoes and some of them had atmosphere, here is an lakes of methane and soap. We no longer restricted to planets excellent too, so that the net that we cast in the search for life, as we know it, has gotten large, initially just gone. Did you hear me, it would have been a shorter trap, the Jupiter soon, although running right, you got it all. Worms live anywhere holdings. The radiation fields that would cook you're gonna Otherwise, I really like the story of Civilization Jupiter strong magnetic field and traps dangerous particles- and it says why the movie eating leading gonna do actually I don't, if you remember, from your chemistry class in your chemistry class, remember that mysterious chart of boxes in the front of the room, the periodic table. In. Did you remember that hydrogen appeal

on the left and on the right. Did anybody remember that its in two places and the left hand side? like our metals, in the right hand, side or nominal hydrogen, depending on the conditions under which you find it can behave at as though it's a metal as well as a gas and hydrogen behaves as a metal in the core of the planet Jupiter where it's under so much pressure that the configuration of the items is such that it can move. Electrons around just the way a metal does and it could conduct electricity and even conduct electricity. You created dynamo. If you created dynamo, you can create an awesome magnetic field, What's the dynamo died? What you do you want to take this? No, no! Please I'm taking you! So if you can, if you get a rotating system, you can send up, you can create electrical currents inside wherever you conducted,

trinity. Wherever you have moving charges, you can create an electric field and with the electric field, you have an attendant magnetic field and You can drive magnetic forces with this, but if everything If it didn't have anything magnetic inside you wouldn't have made, all you ever made at the earth has entered the earth and one of the bits of strong evidence. We had something metallic There was that we urge area. We have an iron core Zack. I did so weak one. So there are things we hear things I neutron stars which have magnetic fields, the Chilean I am saying that it filled the Arthur, but surely in time trillion or more or a thousand trillion times already attic filled the Yankee males out of your show, yeah yeah, you don't want to go near them, but they can make you don't let go. You look magnet. It's a neutron stars dead started because this mathematics, though

nor more or a thousand trillion times already attic field of the king males out of your show, yeah yeah! You don't want to go near them, but they can make you don't let go you look are you it's a really bad magnetic fields and its fine? It's very largely depends on how it is hot, like stars equally. Well, I, that's a weird comparison. I suppose it well what you might wake up and never get always able to happen to you. Weren't there was another, do beautifully ass. They act like a lighthouse because of that big magnetic field so that you can see these neutron starts at great, just as they were like it's a thoroughly a lighthouse. It's like a beacon and their these that, in spite of our lives in Spain in space in our galaxy, we see them referring to retreat there came from stars in the galaxy where you can you need,

Billy triangulate on the solar system, from where those neutral spinning neutron stars are, we call them pulsars you start talk, returns will learn about matter and energy, which relativity says, distorts the fabric of space, and time is a fundamental element in the film interstellar, not then, where they go in the universe, but where he goes with his plum lines. When we come back to you, our dog, Hey I've got a little secret for you, when I consider singing all of the ads on this shell. Just one way to get out a hearing there go to

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Starter right here, the rose centre for virtually the whole of you, many names were one giant room celebrates the center of the universe. You need the reference. In some thing, I've got Eugene Merman, my co host preferred JANET. Eleven! Welcome to start by saying that you are cosmology test, your expertise for sure we're talking about relativity, the universe, cosmology everything that you are an expert it I just dabbled in relativity. It is what you do it right,

Well, we're feature my interview with Chris. No one- and of course we talked about Just- is how he thinks about time and space, and I just wanted to know from him what's going on in his head. That leads him to creating such twisted reality. Let's find out I'm interested and I call it a geometry or topology units, that's kind of things, not not the mathematics of it, that's lost on me, but just the idea of what filmmaking itself it's this. We had combination, two dimensional images represent in three dimensions and time editing and camera blocking structure the way things work. They just don't you thinking about dimensions, it really. It's about, I suppose shapes of patents and things, and that's where unity, the architecture of of movies and movie craft is interesting restructured,

So, as I started make from Sagamore we're interested in a kind of addressing the narrative itself, and it just push you to to think they ve already devoured. It means it's a deeper part of the story. Yeah just some flashy Erasmus has yeah any something about which means to you. You know why something why you wanted displace the chronology, why you want to tell a story with a beginning, a middle end, but knowing that occasion- and it got me thinking about how it till stories in real life, we don't get it beginning million that nowhere in use paper gives the headline version man brainstorm. Then, if cells to fill in all the details- and then you get another version is for the next day and you get more details and open again you know why make films that just give you the beginning the middle and the linear form. When does already the way we experience life and funny so way more intriguing. That way, I don't have to think more deeply to pay closer attention. Yes, so he's messing with time Jenna. What is time

in simple terms, your love yeah, it's! It is actually one of the most elusive aspects of physics: what year or of lie motorcycle logic later, but even physically. We know that there is this sort of clock, the clock, never stops. We never turn around and go back. We can ever accidentally go the wrong direction in time. It's always pushing this forward, and yet we sort of imaginary almost spatially. We almost mentioned like a dimension, but I can't look forward in that dimension. The way I can look left and I can't turn around and look back and that dimension the way can look right right, and so so aspect of why time is different from a dimension when mains sort of political stability confused. So then now we start twisting time and no one thought to do that and to align Stein. I guess there's at affair.

Karen people may have imagined it culturally, but it wasn't actually on the table is a viable possibilities. Until Einstein and it is viable possibility, we know that my clock can run differently from your clock and that there can be a difference between not only our psychological perception of time, but our biological perception of time. But what book our clocks and could run differently if we're the same place at the same time? No, no, no, no you're in two different places. What's different about those two place, if I'm higher up in a building, if I'm in the space station from near my clock will run differently than yours, the further away from the earth, the you know, the faster Mcloughlin appear to run relative to yours. So if I go to a black, have a sandwich and then come right back along the liberalization coming. So if you fold relativity into a story telling narrative now time could be ledge, Amid altered and warped shower the purpose,

is your stuff? You apply those interstellar, realistic but start travelling or the voyage Roma little unrealistic. Honestly, don't remember the voyage home, but I can tell you don't remember before they saved the window right, don't you didn't want. I never thought I think you didn't like that. They came back to the present. It was like it wasn't the most exciting one in their cannon that the conversion programme, but rather than working in nature, but the thing about going near a black hole. Yes, you can absolutely go incredibly close to a black hole. I think I want to ask how close they had to be an interstellar. It was something like a millionth the size of the event horizon of the shadow. Like you had to be really on top of it, as in the film yeah, they go near a black hole, tat close enough to a black hole that the strength of gravity is so high. Yes, that time goes so slow, yes, That was a one hour at this flag. Whole planet like tat

like three one year's gonna be: does the unknown half of it? You can do can calculate how close you'd have to get for that to happen. Now the thing is: is that their extra doesn't reliable any time difference. You want to write it. Laurie around. Here you can calculate how house what's the strength of gravity that would give you the time difference. So there you go right, so so their expensive time is completely normal. They have this very rush hours and said to try to get back away from the black Alan and and many years have passed relative to the earth in the fullness of time have always character said the most perceptive think about that. When there is this difference in the rate of your clock is ticking time, itself becomes a commodity yet exactly and its natural resource a natural resource. So you go down to the black hole you time is taking so slowly. You are at risk.

When you come back that your kids or no dying in their death bed, the things you care about that are motivating you to go into the black hole in the first place, because I know what you really want to do that I am right. All of that is gone and that it is actually a really powerful moment fell, but what might not be as realistic, as is the question of whether or not there and have enough fuel to execute these things like this becomes very what does a leaden limit for a long time? In any case, it is then, as now can you live behind a bookcase if you're an astronaut nevermind so but it's one thing to have time to take a different route It's another thing to be able to visit your past. Yet to see your timeline writ large in front of you, that's taken yet an extra staff. It isn't. I just have a lot of people think that somehow the physical laws will protect us from that.

That there will be some barrier to being able to do that. But you know what you're saying we some people think there's a yet to be discovered. Yes, equal law that will declare in our revelation of this law now shall not go back in time. Your parents from meeting it appears to me, then you are not born when you can't have gone back in time to prevent them from meeting. So it's actually technically possible in the context of relativity. To do this like there are mathematical proves that if this instance near relatives, the whole story than there are certain situations in which you can absolutely go back in time and this is really problematic, but you're. Presuming that you have the will to go and stop your parents from meeting, and maybe you can't do things like Have- will involution that's inconsistent The laws of physics only react do that. It may be that you don't purposely stop them for me do something else that changes all the history of the

sure you're literally in the future. We can pretend you're not, but given that you get very interesting plug my such as what was determined, Germany, one two and three, and all these these time travel movies. Well, coming up. We learn about one of the most twisted lines and that travelling through a worm on start.

This is stored on we're back garden in the heart of New York City, american history, on your own, professor JANET we're talking about interstellar, and what a most Wharton Lot elements scientific elements. Storytelling elements is the existence of and their journey through, Wormhole and in fact we ve got an image of a worm

check it out. Oh yeah, the wormhole is a portal through space and time where, in this particular case, we actually see Yang. What's on the other side of the wormhole, come through us through the whole through the channel optically and that hey leads to another place. So we Both no one of the advisory is one of the signs advised of the least sign of eyes or the film interstellar Kip Thorn kept,

and the wonderful amazing, fascinating capital. Yeah he's he's as it is clearly these brilliant and your work like Japan recently said when I found an error in one of his paper, but I was for there are fined it and there is no that's where they had the money, so keep form he's he's a expert on relativity I've, a book in my office, CO, authored by him. The title of the book is gravitation and it's like a zillion pages thick and we always joked is the only son you ever learned about just by carrying the textbook, I'm so, let's find out what Christopher no one had to say about working with Kip Thorn on your star like Kip. We are talking about a wormhole was always in the script. Please Oh god he's a wonderful guy, and soon I told him. I went home in contact of yeah yeah

no. He is, MR won't keep warm hopeful. Yes, there's like are regularly were also system. It we're talking about the whole much Mckinney's card, because I put this into dogma. Film companies awaiting you saying it's our whole. It's a sphere. This of course sphere it's a whole in three dimensions like another, so of course about unrest with our hands. You exploited at range. I know because I was like if we can make somebody understand something the way I suddenly in a moment of you, have a hole in three dimensions. Guess that's it verifying concept. I invariably cultural approach it from any direction and disappear. Inside of really cool I mean I'm gonna hole in it in the payment of a man who cover it. That's a whole. You fall through, but that's a hole in a surface which is it a circle, We'll all in three dimensions is a sphere, and so that was was brilliantly done and gave you're feeling that it's a whole that you can enter from any direction a lot of what I I I dealt with with with Kip and and

When you get into the fine data we re trying to down to this, there is a point where people should have go. Well, that's car! How we let you guys give it. You know unknown unease he's the Lascaux, isn't it whenever exclusionary about his science, what of it? But this is a point we sort of like look. You know you have to trust me on this site. We give you a citizen model of it and then trying to make it accessible in that way. And then, if you think too deep in that you have to go to the next level, the next level is, exponentially already, I wanna get. You don't have to go there, you don't wanna, go there right, because our algebra will be involved so Jana, Madame cosmology, I love. What they did here is to make the Porto three dimensional, but am because we're in a three dimensional space time. You need a three dimensional portal to move from these all these three pensions to a different location. We lay to imagine from three dimensions, things that are less or dimensions slaughter

here to visualize imagining six dimension. It's really hard! Look! It's gonna take a while. I am not sure from remembering this correctly, but I think in the movie they make reference to actually higher dimensional space. Is that in the movie it's not just a whole three dimensional universe, that there is something that they're calling a bulk which is higher dimensional universe in which these three dimensions are embedded. So the notion that you can fall into something from any direction that that alone Bobby's among it's a three dimensional whole and that whole leads to another place. I can be a lot back on the inside than it has on the answer. We have heard that before

showing her doctor who street granted at the tortoise is rigour on the answer on the outside. The target is realistic, spent helicopter for being a fourth dimensional fictional story gets really realistic, would get quite reasonable. So what But what was good for you have one here, you know wormholes, although there probably theoretically possible, are physically far as we know still impossible, meaning to keep them open the wormhole. You need forms of modern energy that we ve never seen before. We dont know anything that could actually keep the throat open the warm off some kind of keep closing up,

it is desirable, it's very enable meaning we made a wormhole, we couldn't keep it open, but we also can't make wormhole yet so if it's a worm who was formed by some unstable process, it would quickly class, when you say, would close Berkeley how long leg, meaning along with elegant, lay seconds like microsecond myself. I've been to question, isn't, can we make them? But the question is: is there any form of energy in the universe, is capable of keeping a wormhole sort of afloat and and you don't know the answer we have of our. We didn't predicts dark energy, their forms of energy. There are surprising to us, so we have to be of a civilization that power over space time and energy in matters that we are not quite yet yeah, perhaps in that sure civilization yeah? We can manipulate the fabric of space and time I mean we're gonna. So looking for one thing, you said first or other sites,

I think we'd be better off, manipulating space and time by, for instance, doing something like warp drive. So you could do something like warp drive by contracting space time between two points, bringing them closer together. Jumping across you don't have to travel four hundred lives with not a normal, that's, not a wormhole and then pushing swam any pushing back out I'll. Never do not always go out to fight about you luxuries and they go from one part of space to the other and jump across any prowling. How are you It was the spaceboat. Well you can. You can just step right across if you can pull them, you have to stay out of your dimension in back it or you can do this even in three dimensions. Just pull to space time points close. You gonna have the same problem just that I dont know forms of matter energy. That would do it, but that's warp drive and principles.

Then you just push back out again where it was. You just need to just be like a mirror. You just going through something like a mere I'm just making me totally make, and that is why would you would see by Brad one another more about how Einstein's relativity can stretch imagined. These stored on.

Holding Jonah before the break? You said you can what space and hop from one part of it to another, on this basis that I don't know how you do that without a word? Well, there is a sense in which we can get space to expand in particular, where is your contract or control? Yes? And so you can imagine that there's something called dark energy which you know very well, which causes the universe to expand into very accelerated radio. That's one way to push it back out again if you could come up with a form of energy that did the opposite, that hold it together. Much like dark energy does

directly the collapse of Sweden? Would you say on this island? So these are the reason why this is imperative is that you can travel across a very short distance going less than the speed of light in that's very important, and then the space time is able to expand faster than now. I understand oh you're, saying if you can physically stretch, and you have power to do so- just manipulate track and contracts. I bring California to two across the street, you walk on the street, and then you push back. Let me end by companies back to where it was a mere wooden blow. Everything up, I guess, I'm sure you would have all kinds of proceeding consequences- would be. What used to be gathered has not even fabric of space and time. You don't actually squeezing matter to do that. You don't have to squeeze matter. The check is that there is an outbreak. There's, there's no information, travelling fashion

speed of light, even though the space time is expanding fastened the speed of light. So it's all consistent with the limits are relatively good. When you got this call com, you can figure out when I saw this relatively space with a social relative relativity of time of ours, Let's zoom in on my conversation with Christopher Nolan, about the relativity of time You look at relativity itself in so far as I can understand and insofar as it run explained to the audience what they need to know. It all mind why it's my by many I did a time can I'm differently for, depending on how fast your moving away on the Universe River that that's incredible, I material,

and I think you took it to an extreme point which no one had done before everything I'm giving too much of the film away. When I say where you visit a planet that in a very deep gravitational well, we say and the closer you are to a strong source of gravity, the slower your time ticks relative to people, you left at home, and so, if you go to commit to a visit of a planet where time is ticking, we're. Norway, then you gotta be prepared for the consequences of that, how much more slowly as a ticking there, and what are the age of your kids relative to you when you go back with my leg, down their brand pathways garden as Align Eustace, we gotta view time like as a resource like oxygen is a commodity food? Exactly, and I just I It was a great idea that was a great line So the issue here,

time, moving at different rates for different people and China could just give the give the low down on when your time move more slowly, so that these simple circumstance that Eastern first thought of was when you're in relative motion so you're too astronauts flying past each other in hopefully empty space and you're in relative motion. One extra says: I'm not moving you're the one. This moving in your movie near the speed of light. They will see that person's clock run very slowly, that personal care to move slow and talk, slow everything she but that astronaut will occur, the other of the same thing. So there's the relativity of the passage of time it takes to one where experience of their own time is normal and then to disasters gravity the does. This has worked so gravity justice as well in and you can think of- is a rotation in space time. You know you can rotate left to right and it turns out you can rotate space and time and time again. Base, and one way to do that is to have relative motion

one way to do that is to go near a very heavy objects like a black. Also soon be a black all of you in your Jupiter. It wouldn't be technically you're, probably slow, in time. For me, I just haven't of gravity days walking around New York City, slowing down everyone that doesn't want me, Linda normal person, whether you can measure you can calculate what effect Eugene's gravitational feel is having on the passage of time on your clocks. Yes, we do notices with clocks near the earth versus clocks in space. What's the biggest thing, that's near the earth that would have this effect in a way that you'd really notice like as a jupiter or would it have to The sun. That's interesting question I mean I've, never thought about whether they can do it for the moon I mean. Maybe it depends on how precise your clock is. Really that's really, Georgia is used for dubious satellites are farther away from earth than you are

the great and so they in fact experience a faster passage of time than we do, but they're sending time signals to your smartphone and that time certainly said you was correct. How do you get the correct time if they have the wrong time, because we knew in advance what the effects of relativity would be on the GPS satellite system, and we proved correct the time that they send down to us so that when it gets to here on earth, you have the correct time and that is general relativity, manifest in our in in our civilization. Today, when we come back everything you ever wanted to know about blackmail on start

Starter daughter rose centre for space. We do the universe, if you didn't know We're talking today about relativity about black holes, were Overall, we have a cause, Jan Eleven, genuine. We want a wheeler about black holes. Everybody loves some black holes and open way, we have an image. You have an image and artists representation of a black hole. Let's check it out. So I particularly like this because it has sort of what we say in astrophysics is an accretion disk. There's a disk of material that might be feeding the appetite of the black hole. Is it descends? Also, the black hole is a three dimensional,

just where wormholes is three dimensional and this clearly sort of radiation feel just on the outskirts of the event horizon tell him. I want an event horizon it. I love that early so poetic. Is it so beautiful, so the black hole of me to say it is not an industry too. It would be a pleasant so that the black hole creates. Region around that, where the the gravitational field is so strong that essentially unlike can escape you know. We know we have to launch a rocket off the surface of the earth at a certain speed to get it to escape the earth and and the speed at which you would have to travel to escape from. The event horizon is the speed of light. I mean we will never know anything about. What's inside a black hole, that's what the event horizon says it has. No information can ever come out, so we we gather

from the mathematics suggests that there's something called the singularity the centre a place where space time curvature is so strong that you would just be crushed to death just by gravity our forces and then I don't know blotted out of existence, we don't really know what happens there. Why do people think that's not. Whole story and motivating level there are ten spiral right now is that are of a girl just make it then a black hole. You can't move about calls a thing. It's really is legal plain insulin, Miami there isn't one black or can eat the other right. Just a black hole twice entities becomes a bigger, Blackwell, bigger black hole. So, in order to tell this extraordinary story about this planet near orbiting very close to a black hole, they had to suitable loosen up some science shackles in the storytelling and that's returns. Office where I talked with crystal for no one at one. My favorite lines from Mark TWAIN is first get your facts straight,

and distort the metro leisure, not exactly exactly of your site. Figure out what the reality is that I would explain to a kid, but for the narrative, I've gotta jump over this bit or ignore this bit or whatever, and we would have back and forth about what was allowable in and what wasn't. But generally I find work with Kip It was I who was sitting there going will hear the rules of the thing he was. He was sitting a guy will ease. The possibility is real wolfish, which any offer good science advice should be to it. An artist written just here's a context, see what you can do with it what railway comes up with so much more my life when black holes were first discovered, mathematical nobody thought they were real. Nobody thought there be any way nature could make such a thing. Why isn't everything in this? Why hasn't everything to destroy by electoral?

by black and white, as it is a false reputations. If you were to replace the sun with a black hole, this right Jesus, why? We would like to think that it is not there when you did that in view of a black hole, we would be. I mean, aside from having no sunlight, would be called in dark wage in blue and not be sucked in any way. Much whereby we see we are falling into the sun. The sun is lacking a settled incredibly slowly and that I, like the sun, will blow up long before that happens, more collide with Andromeda Lung or that happened. So that's it.

One of them actually kill ourselves long before that. Having just put your your priorities and our civilization, but maybe not my favorite thing about black holes is what it does to your body when you fallen as you get drawn into a black hole seek first year its biggest stretch you apart, because your feet are drawn to the black hole faster than the top of your head is, and then you get taller and taller until you snap into two pieces, when the forces of gravity become greater than the molecular forces that hold your flesh together and then those two pieces themselves experience this while the title force or gravity and they snap and they become one to four eight. Sixteen then you're stream of particles descending down to the abyss, and meanwhile you that the fabric of space and time funnels gets narrow so that you are not only stretched head to toe. You are

polluted through the fabric of space and time, like toothpaste through tube, so you know actually composed a poem about falling into a black hole met. Many shared goal is that it's a rhyme poets composed poems regular people write stuff. So so here it is here. It is in a feat. First die to this cosmic abyss. You will not survive because you will miss the title. Forces of gravity will create quite a calamity when you're stretched tutor. Are you sure you want to your bodies, Adams, you'll, see them will enter one by one. The singularity will eat it and you won't be having.

That is one way to die by falling into a black hole when star talk, returns will find out. Why bill neither This guy is pretty sure that saving the world interstellar style is not a future starting. This is a start is we're talking about the movie interstellar featuring my interview with Christopher Nolan, in my office of Monetary and in that film there's a blight on earth we're all gonna die. We need to find another planet we find another.

When I travel through a wormhole to get their MIKE Mike, friend bill. Nigh assesses the scenario in his. Bill, my rent. Exploration brings out the best, you don't believe me. How often have you heard somebody saving and put a man on the moon? Why can't they blank and that going to be filled with anything like cell phone calls that don't get dropped, veteran mashed potato? It all comes technology is praise or movie. That's about. Space has got a lot of potential with this idea, that you can just ruin You live and go live somewhere else is unique to our time. I don't think you're gonna really be able to do that when it comes to the earth. This is where we make our stand. The earth only this big we're all stuck here. What about Mars? No doesnt reigned on Mars and three billion years.

Serves ass, prescribed spacecraft door opens you'll notice. You can't breathe, see down the track. Bill. A man on the moon. He brings up a very important point. No matter how bad earth was. Is there another place? That's better even after we mess it up as badly as we did and interstellar they go to a planet that didn't look like the next planet. I wanted to go to after earth and I also think the people terrified implants. Africa after we mess up heard this terribly one Mars was tariff warming. You turn it into a like. When are we just tariffs exactly if you have the power to turn another planet into an earth.

They are an earth back into hers. Yeah, that's all that's all I see I agree. It's gotta be easier than terraforming a planet shipping a billion people there, but in any case, The movie interstellar, as well as well as some other films of recent years gravity among them. It got people talking about the universe, about space travel again about science, about the value science literacy in leading characters that maybe you want to be when you grow up. So I chatter with criminal one in my office. I asked him: what effect does he think his movie has. On the dreams of a nation in the world, I would love to kids today. You know: do you know, see you in a cellar and get in spa about some of them? You guys immediately called most cosmos. Whatever minutes, if you can show people visually, that's why

you need such a lavish visual treatment as it gets about how exciting it is not about numbers on the page, about flight of imagination, but Einstein sooner imagining set of twins one training on speed of light in the various today for an it's like it's so visual and enormous So anything you can do you now? I on television movie, would have to try and get that scale and excitement across another thing. I in fact I have been telling us to cause people come to me now to comment on, and we really signs which figures, because I had some tweet for the movie gravity. I heard it went viral which was not by it, and I was just pointed out there and I bumping, on the morning news on the evening news and on and ever was Your visit needle Thyssen Says- and it's like my gosh, but that meant that there was an appetite

But why would anyone care unless the science in a film is now part of the dialogue? Oh, my science in the dial, yet in your defence gravity, got the gravity wrong Listen! Jenna, Professor Levin, thanks for coming any time and Eugene. This always great, have and start off. Thank you. You ve, been watching the whole of the university american regime are met in New York City. I'd be other great faith in your personal life and avoid, I beg you to keep moving. Like devil may, adopt the orange

which you can listen? The star talk commercial, free, joint start our compatriots for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com, slash star talk, radio!