Investigate the convergence of exploration, innovation, and imagination with Neil deGrasse Tyson and filmmaker and explorer James Cameron. Featuring comic co-host Chuck Nice and astrophysicist and StarTalk All-Stars host Charles Liu.NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/the-spirit-of-exploration-with-james-cameron/Photo Credit: Mark Thiessen/National Geographic.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial, free welcome to start on your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide dartle begin right now you never know how photographs! I think your personal african tonight we're future my interview with explorer and filmmaker James Cameras, he's a directive movies like Titanic, which is the highest grossing movie of all time onto Cameron, broke his own box office record with avatar and he's
CO, designer and pilot, or the first solo submarine down to the deepest place on earth. We discuss this crate. Convergence of exploration, innovation and imagination. So Let's do this like the meeting tonight jackknife anything at all to join is owed, starts work all star from are stable sort. My friend and colleague, astrophysicist Charles Luke, you, professor consider university, or that now that's so there you go so like drummed. We would discuss my interview with film director underwater word, James Cameron, a remarkable
individual. Yet so we sat there. Obviously one on one chat at the headquarters of the National Geographic society in Washington DC, while for the explorers festival that sounds really fee and if it was rather, we had a whole audience there. So, let's check it out, so Gmos and say welcome, but your and explore in residence here for National Geographic. That's what did ever. Let you out of your and residents the ball and chain can face exporting residences, and I see more per cent very much, so I think you're gonna get get out of your residents anything to explore and get the hell out of here. I find something to explore what I love learning from people who have been so in petrol and culture and society force of inspiration on others withered some, such sources of inspiration when you were a kid, scientific or otherwise. Well in my
heroes were not in all musicians, rock stars, sports people there Where can I was when you really cares eyes? I actually started the science club my eyes because I used to get you don't ballade until I got the biggest guy and class to be bodyguard, by doing his math home. Very, that's that and then I would just like to go over there taken out, so you so you would give a kid. I was important, exactly, but I I admired scientists. I admired astronauts admired people who exploring Jog Sea land programme, man and sea program. All that sort of thing. I was fascinated by up and up and up and down back then in those years it would have been the easier if you just reading headlines to be touched by space because of APOLLO program and this on the rest. So Was it primarily Jacques Cousteau in his programmes they got you think down as well
heading out sure absolutely yeah. He was bringing wanders into the living room that we didn't even know existed in and, of course, National Geographic magazine was doing the same thing so between two points of view. You know what a view into the ocean. Landlocked. I was five hundred miles from the ocean. I'm not one of these. Like surf kids. They love with snort what his mouth so well I was so fast. I made my my father put me, to a scuba programme in February in Buffalo, What digging up in a pool and a whimsy April did he know you could die from doing this June. I ran on taking care that much we got to do what we want as drove their laws, we're back by by dinner, all good shot you no more science, then most comedians that I've ever met. So I want to know,
Were you a geek and school year onwards, or were you a geek bodyguard? I was a double agent or a new article, kids, but I was definitely friends. What are the gigs, and so I would try my best to take the heat off the gigs by befriending, the cool kids conquer bar. If the gigs ever really. The help that don't don't call China's ever turf who'd you admire our in high school. Unlike James Cameron, I admired athletes, musicians and rock stars. You became known of the above that doesn't matter. Inspiration comes from has also come from somewhere for me, being a scientist petition. Academic was a matter of course. Of course, this is what people do so I didn't have been inspired by them. I was just going to be one of them was the things that I wasn't actually good at yet or focused on that I admired greatly. I would love to be able to throw a fifty yards touchdown bomb like Terry Bradshaw.
Don't worry I'll teach you! Thank you, sir. I gotta get back to my interview and find out how his girl- interest in science and school led to film making us check it out so after high school, then what we, well, then, a couple years, a college, but I was working as a truck driver. Machinist looking at Sunday school janitor, your another billionaire college drop out. Just say that just come out and re Marge, but not a billion yeah. I mean it's fascinating how many people, whatever whatever was the cause? the organization and ossification that can and does happen in college verses, whatever else, if you're truly creative, sometimes not for you yeah. Well, it was the creative part of it writing and painting creating characters in a lab, but I'd also be perfectly happy. You know going and studying the plasma rocket engine
hey you know enjoy it out, seeing how it all worked and that sort of thing so is a combination of of curiosity, and I guess creativity and I just didn't come to know what I want to be when I grew up, so I just start working full time I figured. Maybe if I want to be a writer, I should see a bit life. You know so you know I got married- got a house in the suburbs and I'm talkin like twenty three. By the way I was over, pretty much life by the tunnel is twenty four and started thinking my shop in southern Iraq and chair on imports. Ok, that's life back to science fiction, I just wondered: if he wasn't more focused and school might have invented warp drive instead, easily, but remember its amount of what you want to do right. Clearly he could have done any or anything that we would want him to do, but he wanted to make films and, though
What he didn't want to changing history, a filmmaker Europe Mean- and it's interesting that he has this physics background, because physics is, is not as highly valued by so many people arctic biology, because I'm a living organism and many people I know- fundamental physics, is to all other knowledge that derive from it. Literally James, and I said by two phases: just amethyst comedy is the most fundamental thing, accompanied from which the expansion of the universe, derisory so carried it first really big surprise. It was terminator. He wrote directed their and I have back be back by the best- members. When you didn't say anything and just ripped the heart out of that person, you're a dark man biology versus the physics. I know he did because he wanted the clothing that they were wearing, and that was the appropriate thing
german give them to me now close. Give them to me: yes, you know who you know who we beat up there: the with three thugs fighting over a telescope at Griffith Park, LOS Angeles. The terminator landed in front of a damp planetarium nice we to win directed aliens the abyss. Yes to get some under. Actual mayor, I titanic government in an avatar and so titanic, an avatar, the two highest grossing movies of all time, noble woman in number, two we'll get to avatar later, but first I asked James Camera about the depths of his inspiring that led to check it out. You could you could just read the titanic book and then made a movie on it, but I'd love knowing the depth of inspiration. That is behind a project because I don't know how many people who saw
love Titanic, swayed by the love, songs and all the rest of this. I don't know how many of them knew. You went to the bottom of the prick in ocean found a thing: I found founded, but we but of course every have you have to find it? Ok, you not like frustrate signs on the bottom, pointing to Titanic down. Haven't left at at Octopus, twelve thousand five hundred feet down in the middle of the North Atlantic. There are no sign posts you get to the bottom, it's like, I think it might be that way and you're looking on the sonar, so every dive you find the titanic noble how I got into it was first what my lover, the ocean, which had never lapsed, and I was a scuba diving all that when barbaric found titanic there was a lot of stuff about our movies, so I got very Christian minorities and I wrote a movie called the abyss and I got to work with real our role. These remote operated vehicle ride. So it's like a camera felt propelled camera, so I thought
these are fantastic underwater robots to me. They were characters in something like like movie guy. And so I started working with real- are all these four that film so No, that was my first baptism into the real world of of a deep ocean exploration, seven hundred and eighty nine, and then I thought it wasn't such a big leap to think we'll wait a minute. Why don't we yet? Some are always and go to the titanic rack for real and make it part of a movie. Get twentieth Century fox to pay for it. So, applause. I was a boy the right, this love story, the movie was incidental the, so your prime director of this stuff, you do to be unexplored.
Some of the great scientific discoveries are made on expedition that had nothing to do with the science to begin with, and there was a I strongly on the beagle, ok downright Ilona Dog, all the way around the world, its floated into the cooperative circle. Yeah. I mean that meant that voyage was not for him. He was piggybacking, stowaway practically on that on that ship we also the moon voyage, yeah or button. One of them who went to the moon was like a military pilot that I got and the science incidentally, we know the history of them how the moon form just kind of because they brought back some rocks not because the whole miss and was conceived around productive science so trials, you think
We would move. We should continue to be used as excuses for all year, so loudly. In fact, most of them are already wonderful vehicles for us to express science to everybody. Ok, so we will explore the alien world of avatar cameras, science fiction, mega avatar, combined his passion with exploring outer space with his passion for the undersea world, and I ask him about that. Intersection of inspiration and creating like one day she world be an avatar with check it out to me. You were in space but to an ocean under her. Yet your underwater so tell me about these inspirations.
Then the profusion of life, the colors the patterns on the animals, some of the animals themselves, like there's a lot of people, think of it as a plant, but it's actually meant to be an animal this. This thing that looks like a Christmas tree worm except two orders of magnitude. Five orders of magnitude bigger. You touch it things you don't like that. That's actually based on a real, a real policy in all their lives. In the end. Reefs and any scuba diving got got the reference and they say I know those colors from certain refinish. That's where I think so it's against the under we're off your scooper street credit that movie. I think it is this. Do you know I was such a fan, of the imagination of nature people. Everybody has different relationship with the ocean and scuba diving do all kinds of different things, but sometimes just on a night dive to sitting
Looking at little cost us one square metre of reef can keep you occupied for the entire tank of air, and I thank you capture that, in the main characters first encounter with the rifle three he's he's in his own exploratory mode. Exactly I was just curious he's a curious monkeys, gotta touch everything and it all right. So it's kind of an internet, the world like and that's all just from you know it's they dive and there's a lot of of biomedicine algae is move your hand like that at all sparkles, you know behind it. It's pretty amazing, so I just took that ran with that idea, and you put it space, so when I think of how might we imagine an alien? Let's start on, right and look at all the extinct lifeforms The undersea life forms that are here and it's all here. The aliens are all here there, either there either back in time or their or their deep or their shallow, on a coral reef and they're just a different scale.
Do every alien you'd. Ever need for every science fiction phone for the next thousand years. All exist right here, just change the scale so that We we got all of our inspiration from nature itself, and sometimes it was a thought process. On earth were all on a touch platform. Essentially everything is pretty much for four limbed even words are unjust adaptation of a fall. In fact, as you know, we have a legitimate, illegitimate dragon because it has to forfeit the front limbs to be that way, So you have to know that that's a construction that nature Pricerite cuz nature will take, will take your pinky finger and turn it into a twenty four wingspan Taranto dawn, but doesn't it make it about a whole claw right? So we we based everything in an avatar on six limb platform, and the theory there was that it was a lower gravity, planet with a high atmospheric density and so to get traction running from abroad,
running after something needed. An extra paralympic kind like the Mars Rovers got six wheels than for wheels right because your interaction with the ground is constrained by the low by the low gravity. So, except for the novel has debated, have any having six limbed character. We're just been too weird. It would have increased sex with its six whim thing that forelimb having sex with six limbs now known. Don't go there now you and I was wrong oversized patient fan problem for me: there- are already blue. Ok, isn't that enough Blue twice are wise outside, workers. Overgrown is David Cameron. Is a freak liquors printed, so Chauncey
as we got all the inspiration for family life here on earth. You agree with that. No, yet neither do I No, actually I don't I don't agree. I agree with the statement that we have enough here on earth to power science fiction films for a thousand years. These, but really thinking about stuff beyond earth is the next level. We have to do that because the person living thing we have other eight limbed thing through, not vertebrates, but you know the activity of preference behind. We do have the six like folks, the insects near, but but but I agree if you gonna be from the planet with out Eddie, Earth DNA and possibly know dna at all? You need to look more different than earth like looks from itself, but is that possible? Because when you think about it, look at-
all the different forms of life that we find how Europe is when you have dna in common with an octopus. That's what I'm saying how much further can we go? A man? I have dna in common with some slug, that's like, like a more prison slime and around in the dark? Wait, that's my uncle, but it is true, though, that of course, the diversion of life on earth offers some pretty weird. Looking creatures, we gotta admit that Charles I the early into our sensibilities, pretty maize, and so it s a good it in the deep sea innocent weird stuff. Now, I'm in a row gladly mention that, because that brings us to a living, so I want to play with you guys outer space or underwater here's what's going around there's ways but work. I am going to describe to you guys a creature and you're going to guess whether it's not it's from either side
this fiction, or is it an actual creature from under the sea? Ok, here we got the virus. What is these creatures can be seven feet long, it does it need sunlight and it doesn't need to eight as it from outer space or from underwater under water deal at Trinity defined eat. It will certainly need energy. Perhaps it gets it from some other source. So I will say: ok underwater, look at that this year. We are both right, it's, to seventy one. Seventy long and by the way, adorable yeah. They live at black smokers down at the bottom of the ocean, getting geothermal, that's right, orange suggestions! Here we go. These creatures, lay eggs in the stomachs of other creatures, which hatch and kill their holes are day from outer space
or from underwater. I saw that movies call you your resource, but it is our space and it is the movie earlier. The tyrannical a hawk actually attacks. Large spiders injects them with a poison. In parallel, does them and then lay their eggs in them the spine, stay alive until the eggs, hatch and the eggs eat their way out of the spine. That's mass as critical as we want. Our network is from outer space or under water. This creature can make objects in their facility float and their extremities light up, kimono underwater by luminous and creatures. You just have to be neutrally buoyant to float so that wouldn't be too hard underwater. Given underwater see, this is how you tricks, scientists, you give them something
sounds like you should be underwater and its outer space is called eighty issue with with with avatar, could I get the scientific inspiration for the the creepy crawleys rings and the animals and plants? Ok, but those floating mountains whose, like you know, come on now it is anyone who hasn't seen avatar because alert goods in their there's more all around and echo planet. Yes, excellent of planet orbiting another star, a moon around at its core.
Hand or indoor, and that moon has a rare element in a call up. Take me on obtaining earthlings. We earth people being earth people. Of course we want to invade their place and minor for unobtainable and what apparently, these floating mountains have high concentrations of on obtain him, but I had to ask him about the scientific. Donation for the floating mountains, so lessons with check it out on this common. You have away explain to me how they were floating. Ok, so has the person you know what I can t atm is naturally occurring room temperature, superconductor type, two superconductor and with floods pinning Meissner fag You can actually suspend a room temperature superconductor and a strong enough magnetic fields, so the planet has very powerful magnetic field, so
these or not, but I gotta be plus so far on that go on. You have to assume that a room temperature superconductor can exist where we haven't found ninety five percent mass in the universe. You guys talk to me about floating may find arrested a mass. So I guess here then, was my put my question, because I was ready to accept that a strong magnetic field. You float things and it is highly magnetic but if they are then primarily on obtaining him, then why did the military have to get it from
the tree they last through a mountain yeah. I started with that, but here's my here's, my explanation of what we call the flux Connor inflicts concentration is so powerful that it messes with electronics, and so there are big mining machinery doesn't really operate very well all the robotics that they need to to extract. It doesn't work very well so they go, and I got out of that one. You gotta, Sir Charles, and yet these mountains floating. Yes, how plausible was his explanation? I would be very difficult to get the look on your face, told us how applause, because when you mention the Meissner a four year yet- and I remembered seeing it briefly in Sicily, Yes, it's ammonia doctors right, you see maybe on you to channel where maybe you ve seen a movie where you have a bigger of super cold superconducting stuff, and then you have
bubbles, kind of floating in mid air strike. That's because the miser effect you have superconducting things going on, but it's this little tiny scale. His explanation, concrete. This whole mountain caused by that in flux, density and lobby blackberry Button, so you think we can get a moon with sufficient magnetic field strength to levitate Mount while if we did that than others helical, Does it be flying off into space right so that trade it Riven by rhetoric? given that that's really all right as long as this self consistent laws are some internal. We're. Ok with that man- and I think I what he said that we still know at night. Five percent of the modern universes is actually very telling, because all you have to do is to bridge that gap. Take that little tweak up in that unknown in your oak. Next, we talk to James Cameron, Avatar, director about his solo submarine dive to dig deep. This place on earth
I have done this before you I'm gonna, consider singing all of the ads on this shell there's just one and where to get out of hearing there, go to patriarch arms last star, talk and support where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen the star talk ad free, you can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never we're here another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me saying if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just said
not far from the american dream of natural history right here in New York City, where future my interview with film Director Annex WAR, James Cameron and its film portrays world epic scales, but he says the devil is in the details, not only in his movie but in his passion for I would think that a few, if you have ten times more detail than you actually want in the movie, what They want a world that they can immerse. We want to know you thought about it. Yeah. I would think that if you, if you have ten times more detail than you actually want in the, really what you do leave in the film feels like it's, it's right. I don't know why. But its therefore reason here is a good example. The lunar lander right, the Lamb you got twenty. Hollywood films done before that we're landing on the moon and pointy rockets will tell fins- and they all looked this
and then the lunar lander came along and it looked like a bug what the hell, but that's me, it was based on certain engineering principles, not Hollywood design ideas. So it's not just your interest in the oceans or space you ve, touched and been touched by engineering and technology, and there was a lot about the cameras used for avatar, but you farther back, then that will yeah. I guess I just love engineering. I love love, solving hard engineering pro I love working with really smart engineers in a room and trying to do something that has been done before like make someone that can go to extreme. That's in other materials problems electronic batteries all sorts of things and had to be developed that were actually hard problems, and I just like that so trophy like solving problems. He would have made a good science. You would make a good scientists to admit a good engineer. He would have been good just about any
It could have been somebody, but that got me wondering. Ok What kind of a preparation? What kind of thinking must have gone in to motivate him in two thousand and twelve, to make the first solo descend to the deepest place on earth and ass submarine that he piloted and code designed LAO You know we went what's the deepest place on earth, the Marianne S, transparent, Marietta, trenching tat. I thought you were going to say my fears almost seven miles down, seven, almost seven miles down off the coasts of the Philippines, and so I asked him about that record. Setting divers check it out,
So what motivated you to go to the bottom of the ocean bottom of earth, you know it's funny thing is that I've been asked that a lot, and it occurs to me that a kid would never ask that question, because it kid would know you just gotta go. Why wouldn't? I can so dismay in that moment, right there. That is just as culture. We start to think like. I want to thank you again, exactly so kid would say why? Wouldn't you go in there and you haven't looked yet so? Why? Wouldn't you build up? You know get in it and go and look, but you went by yourself I was kind of a constraint I would have built a two man saw before two persons sub. If, but we had to evolve beyond the tree. Ass that went down. There are nineteen sixty which was held to be towed out there, and it had a big masked tunnel that you went down to get into the spheres. What would very much like a military? So what we want
He was the paradigm of modern research submersibles we go out on a ship and you put it in the water, so had to be a certain weight and all scales. Around the size of the sphere, so we thought I launched, isn't gotta. Do this down and dirty we're doing a privately, not big institutional money? It's not a Navy project. So, let's start with the small fear that we can crammer human into and so then that instantly pretty much they one was. It was a one person deal, so I a dive and then, when I saw you or are you or yet certain kind of about like that, like that with back of the sphere there, Europe about like that. If you that's about as well Our look like how you had to into the Mercury capsule yeah because they were not there We're capital was not some lounge. I was it was tiny day here, but I figured guys enough. Sixteenth fly. Eleven twelve hours authorities will refueling in Please do it all time, and so it's it's really not humans have,
Should we not rules, they do this, and so I tell just to be clear why the shape of the vessel has to be a sphere. Ok! Well! I was yet also leaving cursing. As you know, the answer. This fear is the most elegant shape in nature, because as this is just like a bubble in water nature. Naturally, tens to get these ice tropic pressures forming a sphere. So it's like your your bubble is just made steal, any other shape, will tend to failure, have what's called stress, risers, where the stress fields will peek at a certain point like a corner of rebuilding a box or whatever so spheres. The elegant shape that resist pressure and so you start with a sphere. Then, whatever other shaped the vehicle appears to have as usually about the flow dynamics over the vehicle, put the flotation applying heavies here at the bottom and that's how you started otherwise you're going down had first or tumbling, which would be even worse. Here then, you get like seasick
what you don't want to address. Two have been there check one, but I but there's a filmmaker a storyteller, I'm thinking. If you want people to be interested in enable research, you have to go with it. Don't hit me a hidell. Hale is anything below six thousand metres, which is a Bissell depth right all the way down to the deepest spots, which are close to eleven thousand meters. So to take away from that is below that you do even faster failure. You don't pretty fast at six thousand is actually, but I think it's it's a very fine degree figured it wouldn't hurt, because by the time the pain impulses got to my brain, it wouldn't be there anymore. The brain wouldn't be there right right, you just be crushed to pilot glue, pretty much freedom to is my calculation accurate, feebly, a pile of Google. You would be a pilot every thirty to see that
down in the ocean. Every thirty two feet you go further down. Increasing again the same amount of pressure that we are experiencing now. The surface of geopolitical feed is one atmosphere. That's right! Ok, we're going down thirty five thousand feet, that's equivalent of more than fourteen thousand pounds per square inch on your body. Imagine if this entire Hayden Sphere worse, pushing you, so it's that seven tonnes per square it eight seventy eight tonnes per square- that's a quick parlor grew out. The problem is, you know, that's not! The problem. Oh yeah from other planning neglected, outweighs the clean up. If you went from you to do immediately, you wouldn't feel it is right. Well, that's the name of the next doktor sues book from you to good, probably happen. Is your ship will start to creek in a break water? Start coming in you will suffer before you become, could just not instantaneous
It's a slow death, that's kind of the problem, but that's pretty cool down. Moon since our scientists- and this is a fascinating conversation about what other any other like really great ways to die in science, there is no end of great ways to die in the universe, real Trojan. I could just trade back and forth charge. You go first category I would love to be destroyed by gamma Ray burst. Do ok, you say like I, don't know what that would be like what. That's a very high energy flow of particles and light one that would put vaporize them quickly. Ok, but what would it actually due to me like So my what would it just break me down into Lotus Heine of Energy to completely break apart or molecular bonds? your body, ok- that at its core area, it'll just completely de dissemble- you mock item by item molecule by Then there are others
I felt like I want asteroids right. Are we really I go so you want to be right where it hit, so you die instantly and you get to watch it come in. There would be cool if you're, not right, where it hits, you will die but later slowly. Ok, I have on this because I read this from you. Spaghetti four cases love me: some spaghetti. Faceache death like black hole, tat my black holes. Death by black hole by black hole by a black hole I give a b plus that's it. You fall into a black hole. You that's my way to die. If you pick want to forget the gamma Ray Burst, they may be called it We have become Adams again, but still fallen into a black hole. You get to a point where it starts pulling on your feet faster than its pulling on your head. Ok, anyone stretching.
Now, you're stretch able who we all like a stretch right just until it stretches you so much that title forces. This is what they are. These stretching forces exceed the intermolecular bonds of your flesh and then you snap into to peace. Likely at the base of your spine in those other two pieces, continue to fall in there feel the same title forces, and then they snap each into two pieces, the ultimate chiropractic circle. Think of one to two to four to eight to sixteen, you by four Kate, your way down into the abyss. Your ex drew did through the fabric of space slight to taste, to to nice, and so we have a word for that respect: gratification, nice. That is coming up
unstartled. I asked James Cameron about exploring oceans on other planets when we return. That would, in my view, a movie director, you'd better it's war, James Camera and is hit filled. Avatar is set. A fictional alien moon of an actual planets orbiting a neighbouring star and move like this might be the best place for alien life, and so we discussed my favorite moon for the search for
and Life Jupiters Moon Europa. Let's check it out. Europa has an icy crust and very likely ocean of liquid water, which we expect has been liquid for billions of years, have kept warm by a pulse of gravitational. She said to him from Jupiter and surrounding other moves towards pumping yea title pumping, so it's outside of the traditional Goldilocks and which has fund, because in our search for life in the universe, it broadens the net huge. Now any ice world could be. If it's got great gravitational pumping could have thermal energy could have a liquid she could have life. So this is organic for you, because its if space and an ocean, almost literally you get to fly in space go to the bottom of an ocean and what life that aliens likely, because if
discovered. You know what immortality drug tomorrow. I would be very happy because I would live long enough to get to go to Europe for no other reason couple. So I joke about Europa, because if we do find lifeforms there there's only one thing: we would be forced to call because Europeans say just say things done other than yeah Enceladus is good too and this you got. You got active venting right now and then think that there is actually a exposed interface where you could theoretically fly down across a crevice or crevasse get to the bottom and see boiling water, not boiling causes it's boiling Khazars, it's in a vacuum, so it's changes the boiling terms. Oil, it exactly, and so it's so it's just its vapor, rising and you're. Looking at sea water
is then in communication due to you know, conductive currents with some kind of hydrothermal activity and the will- and what I'm intrigue buys they flew Cassini through a plum and they picked up. Some sort of maritime affairs Cassini will be I know that my unrest internal. Yes, now it's on a debt spiral right now you into sell the item. Cassini was christian, you just but whatever religion it was later get burned at the state. Really, you probably did that's. Why India out and out to get it out so that it doesnt accidently crash into one of the moon where they could wear it? Could Hammond aided in and screw up our chances of being able to tell life from life, but yesterday, silicon nanoparticles, which can't which they leave can only form in the plumes of hydrothermal vents. So literally of God, you ve got water, that's being brought down heated up by this days. Title effects scorning up into the ocean boiling
for while getting to the surface and then and then evaporating going out into space, getting picked up by human spacecraft and analyze. That's pretty! We got! You have no way that you already frickin cool now we hear that they fly around, they might hit a fish some ports right. So in that same vein, we know that The frozen ice of Europa has cracked and re frozen because mighty. You see patterns that are shifting yeah like like a puzzle, shit like it. It would like that went to then we are examining is actually, and so, if that's the case, that means there are crevasses that come in then rephrase, and so if there are fish they get caught in the up. Well of this What are the fish is now frozen near the surface exact, so you can have astronauts landing there and not having to drill the kilometer thin ice sheet. They can just dig into these current frozen craft sections, have like a freeze, dried fish right on this one.
Or bacteria or whatever it is, but that that's the our fish. That's the low like like a scourge that is Europe. Interviewers expensive, so Charles, what what would you visit? First, based on your knowledge of the solar system Europa for ashore a few years back, I had the great privilege of flying over the north pole in the daytime and the ice pack there. The part that wasn't melted looked so much like the crust of the surface of Europa. I just swear, I feel it in my bones. There's something alive down underneath show. Jim camera is really curious, guy without obvious, and try asking if you have any questions for me, as an astrophysicist, so I solicited this from much check it out I'd. I want to do this just immensity. Ok,
You know want to hear your answer to question that that I think everybody asks and ever heard of answer that makes any common sense. You're, not a higher mathematician. Oh ok, observable universes. Thirteen point: five billion of thirteen point. Eight less thirteen point. Eight billion molecule light years light years about lowering lawyers, thirteen point, eight billion, years old, yeah years old, and therefore we can. We can the horizon that we have access to a microwave bay. Whenever, when that light with sent to us yeah right, it was thirteen point, eight billion. Go right and yet the site. So it's a bubble. Around a radius of of thirteen Gillian Light years right. What's outside the bubble, we know mathematically nano, No, I got this. Ok, the universe is infinite. Just for the moment it turns out that assumption is not terribly important.
But just just imagine is really really big, and here we are in some support. I see you, I see you not as you are now, but as you once were five billionth of a second ago when the light left me when the light left you and you over that, as you look farther out, We'll will see light that began from the object farther back and from the moon. One point three seconds from the sun five hundred if you plucked the sun from the middle of the solar system. Now we would not know We will continue to orbit who continue to feel the rays for like eight minute for about eight minutes and twenty seconds, and then we fly off and attention and plunge into an icy depth, never to be noticed again. Ok, so we can. New this to the nearest star to the sun. That's for years, across the galaxy, a hundred thousand the nearest large galaxy two million years you keep doing
Since we know the universe had a beginning that we call the big bang, we will be a point where they will be an object who sent us light right when the brig language right after okay, so that creates a horizon in space. I look this way. I can't see farther away than thirteen point eight billion years. Because that's the beginning of the universe, every direction. I look so my horizon, like the horizon of a ship at sea. That's two dimensional righteous circles! the same distance in every direction when in Spain, your horizon, is a three dimensional circle which we call a sphere so now suppose there's an object. Fifteen billion white- It's from us. The universe is an old enough for its like to have reached us here.
So this still universe beyond this horizon and the way that there is ocean beyond your horizon when you are selling at sea and the day you want to worry is the day. The evidence of that Bang begins to just disappear, and no longer is this horizon. Expanding at one light year per year, no longer does that wash any more matter that's out there. That would be a physical edge of the universe beyond that, ratify, know, you're, just a firing, the terms and talk about what's outside them, so so the real question is what outside of the universe- and I am delighted to be able to answer for you-
You have no idea how people work out, so we ever gonna get there sure we already know what's beyond the cosmic horizon, whereas it's more universe, but you said that yeah, but but you have no idea what's over there. Well, it's basically because more logical principle, which so everywhere is basically the same, so so I dont get that, but that you have to assume its infinite, not necessarily right. If I go ten billion light years in this direction and tenderly lawyers in that direction. Both those points are within my car. Arising. But each point is not within the others caught because an azure. Not since we look in every direction and the universe appears on large scale to be homogeneous, an icy tropic that media event out expeditions. That's what we, after that, bring back to the info precise, coming up more on the intersection of exports.
And imagination with direct your dreams can start operator you're my interview with one of the world's most successful innovative filmmakers James Cameron is passion is underwater exploration, but I wonder if he had aspirations to actually explore the frontier. Thus as well, let's check it out. Do we need to send storytellers into space or do we just need you to tell stories here that you ve invented out of your head? Well, I'd! Look there, those a tooth, the different kinds of stories, one being I would think of avatars of fantasy. It's an allegory for the way where you it set in space, but it's really meant to be about our our planet. Now, ship to nature and so on, but do we send story, teller to go on Mars mission,
You know I mean in the NASA world, you know you don't, because you need that person to be something else, but what I because my load matters in my world, you you have to select your astronaut, not Before their ability to perform the mission, but for their ability to come back and tell us what it felt like. I think that's critical. I think they They are not saying you send you don't like that, storyteller that's a storyteller. Exactly I mean there are national at first, but their story storyteller, second, because they have to tell us what it felt like and buzz There was great at an end and Neil Armstrong who revering as a godfather, you know, but but he was terrible storyteller. In fact, he wouldn't talk. Two years have basically yeah he, he didn't feel that that was part of the job, and I feel it is and looked at me. We all Nielson, national here on don't get thrown onto the bust, reducing dissing Neil, but he didn't. He didn't do that part of the job, and I think that its critical
took to that when we send our if we're gonna send humans, which is but damn thing to do. Robots are going to do it better Cheaper, go farther, be more resistant to radiation, all that sort of thing, but they can't tell you what it feels like, and I can't tell you what they were thinking. They can't tell you what the spiritual journey was and you know when the first time somebody some small group of people is standing on the surface of Mars. They better goddamn well come back and tell us what it felt like Charles Parting thoughts. You Albert Einstein once wrote that the oars of all great art and science is the same thing. It's the sense of wonder and MR, whether or not James Cameron is a practising science. He's drawing from that origin and is helping us
all see that so at first I agree, and maybe were we to do this. All again, we wouldn't say who we gonna send into space Woodson military pilots, then all sound the same. Maybe we would send a cross section of people who create civilization. And every civilization we reflect upon. What is it that rises up above everything else? It's the architecture, it's the science is the art. It's the writing. It's all the things that we value the expressions of creativity in human species. So to say we have all that creativity here on earth surface but sending this one dimension of kind of people into space. I think that under serves our capacity to be curious and our capacity to explore
so perhaps in a next generation of exploration of space. You don't say you have to be useful and then be a storyteller. In addition, maybe the fact that you're, a storyteller is the most useful thing about you on that mission and the fact that you are an artist is the most useful thing about you on that mission, because now you can take the full depth and range of human emotion and apply it to place yet to be experienced by human emotion, and these are the people who are unique. Glee placed to carry us not only intellectually but emotionally into a future. We so desperately see you
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-19.