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welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture culture, nor talk, begin right now. This is start up near the graph facing your personal astrophysicist. There's gonna be a cosmic queries addition and, of course that means Let me of your Don't I'm excited for this one zero this one this, very cool, there's gonna be a happening Mccleery here. Why? Because normally, when the expertise falls outside of anything, I know we of course bring in an expert, but this time we ve got to export through exports. Why? Because they're both the subject of a region documentary called Fathom Fathom editor ground. On breaking story to learn how to talk to whale

wow, tat, talk to Wales and I got with Ellen, Garland and Michel for need. I pronounced that right. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you both because it is so you each Phd Marine College or Michel Europe, Marine ecologist, Ellen Europe's marine biologist? Don't I get that right? Yeah, yeah, ok, ok, and so so I do know you can get it separately. A phd the marine ecologist from that we ve all heard of marine biology right, but marine ecology that enough I mean I was gonna, be really specific. My phd is actually in wild life. Science switch means that I focus specifically on studying animals in the wild in their natural habitat. Instead of it how disease are homes. I gotta girls who put both but ok about humans when I'm in the city, this my habitat,

study humans, just as they gathered in the why waste, which, by the way, is nothing more than an open range cage. Let's be lets us less. That is key call it what it is a great tragedy we put ourselves in ourselves Michel you're, a postal fellow at that's right up, upstate, New York and Ithaca and view specialise in animal communication in marine Bio Acoustics, I like that new words. They were clear what you're saying So what does that mean? Bio, acoustics figure it out? We got there is It's a really like laid that well with the guitar at Lisbon. I am out of oil acoustics, acoustic, MTV unplug rising, committed fire.

Ellen. You are a marine biologist research, fellow the universe of Saint Andrews in Scotland, Scott but do you not scottish with wrath Scottish, I'm originally from New Zealand? So I mean I'm a key, but I've had to moved all over the world. So I dont have a stronger kiwi accent, though I feel and may come out today, a little bit a few certain words will come out with me We do not hear a little bit that you have like a residual key. We accept in ours we love New Zealand. Nowhere is having everybody loves. What is it about New Zealand? That is because they filmed the Lord of the rings there. That goes way that could be it from country. It's it's really at green and there's a lot of ocean there, sir. I Gaddafi's it grew up around that sell this this The documentary we're talking about which I am told is

being entered into film festivals, but also will come out on Apple tv plus, I think, all the collar channel. Now the director of the film drew Zan Fatherless pronounced his name right. He describes this film as arrival, but with whales, the member, the arrival Rhine we agitation that would have like, like ought to know sceptre parts in it or seven limbed the bosses and this one has whales. Ok, It will be the arrival for Wales. we would be the arrival. Whales wouldn't be the arrival we re, the ones who landed. Anne and wants to talk, and we want a land into ok. So, let's, let's get to the bottom of this, let me ass, you guys, and I don't know who to directed to so you're just gonna fighting each other, and then you know who ever stop speaking what use deja vu specialities. Is it the communication methods and

six of these creatures who bear the largest brain of any. Living creature, they ever was on Earth So we hear that sounds they make but Why are you showed so convinced that we can crack their code while, for my part of nine but any good,

and he could question the woman were to this has been star ordinary and Ellen Garland, certainly produce that is going to write. Any good question is worth is worth trying to answer and when you are dealing with something bigger than yourself and other than yourself, but you you put it in that the very best of what our slightly smaller human brain has to offer, and so for the work that I do. The best I could do was to say I'm gonna tackle all humpback will communication at once. I started with a very tiny piece of the puzzle, and I said what does this one sound me, and so, if you start small, the hope is eventually get back before he issued from the stars. You have to make it to them in their interest, and so did so. You got a little by little pieces of sound and then what did you find out? Well, this is the kind of cool thing I found that a minute it seems simple, but I found that Wales talk to each other and that if you do

a good. What did we need you to figure that out I mean about ass. It happened tat. I learned that from Elam Funding, while the other is the answer to that is decisively. Yes, this is one of the first signs of human history that we have actually got out and design from experiment to try and figure out exactly what a whale does when when it talks to itself. So when one whale talks to another well, how did they respond why's that important? Why is this we'll producing a sound and to do that, we had to go out and drop the speaker in the water and produce a sound, but a wheel would make to see. Is this an exchange, or is this a whale trying to fight fish?

or is this a whale that trying to navigate? Or is this real that trying to keep itself company mean? You have to remember that in the I do my work in Alaska, so southeast lasted it's in the summer time lots of primary productivity, which means the water, is completely cloudy, no light a whale that is ten metres away from another wheel is invisible in eggs, a sound. What what? What kind of activity doesn't remember activity so Propriety Brentwood wait sinner. I marry production primary production style, fatal planked activity as well oh, oh, oh, oh, ok! So the basic! So listen, it's great feeding grounds. It's really good, and so the water is dance with with it

we ve got krill. Co provides in and lots of little swarming tiny food, which is why the wheels come there, but it also means our waters really cloudy and that a whale can't see another will. So we might laugh and say, oh, why would we ll talk to another will and that's because if you want to know, if someone's around you have to be sound, produced otherwise the whale is functionally invisible in the drawing room. With that it is aware Ellen your based up in Scotland is other any whales up in the north Caucasus. There is there a humpbacks up here that I do my work actually in the South Pacific paying for that re gender. So I investigate so we, let's get around this was my friend population how? How far round, because now I do not think it was humpbacks that we were watching I was in Hawaii and we went watching a store, their breeding time where they go. I was of Lanai Maui and they said a word.

but there's a warm and so day. That's where they go to birth, so where? Where is the scope of their travel around the world, as I saw one on the EAST River half so so so, that they do travel, thousands and thousands of kilometres cause. I working kilometers I'm so there will spend this summer months, feeding witches out where Michel works in the polar regions and then I'm for winter. They go, the tropical and sub tropical breeding grounds. So remember: women, women, winters and summers are switch from each other like lays out, we hallo so do they cross the waiter they do just around Colombia that Costa rican Nicaragua, that area on the western side on the South America in Central America? But if they have habits that are seasonably driven, then they can't go too far across the UK,

otherwise I'll get completely more now go back to the same breeding, location and feeding ground. Usually, every year that is really strong site, fidelity settle go sickly at you guys get up and down they'll go no doubt is without JP all that really fantastic question were not entirely sure exactly how they navigate and may have some, to do with and this has them and how that style but we're not entirely sure exactly so let me this might be of interest to you, but, in addition to magnetism is one theory. There is also a theory that Wales can actually detect differences in the gravitational tug of the earth, and so they use different gravitational forces to know when and where its migrates or, alternatively, as necessary,

this matters to Ellen, I that they can actually listen to learn their way around that they hear what is unsafe sounds like and they know I'm in the right place at the wrong place. Kind of like you would know the difference between if you weren't a basketball quarter, if you were a closet, right right. So I vote against that their feeling earth gravitational field, I am voting against that arise as well visit, hesitant astrophysicist frozen astrophysicist, because the whale is basically neutrally buoyant right and Obviously this is a railway zero. you pull it out on land. I wear now. What is it way in air, but in water? It's it's! Basically, If, U way zero there, variations in gravity around your China irrelevant because you just floating there. So that's that's my first take it that, but I could be wrong, let me, but before we go to break and then get to our questions from our fan base of them, just ask you:

the is there any way. Darted do little could be documentary look I mean it's. Ok, let me be more precise. All animals there all animals, we care about, communicate with you. Other. So it's just a matter of us learning how to communicate in that same way, can you imagine today, where we just communicate with all the animals? The way time words do in doctor who for example, or the way Mary Poppins does when she talked her. The dog and I'm gonna counter that, with a slightly more complicated question should we write, that's what I was going to say. First of all, there is a lot of animals, I really don't want to talk about a cocktail party It's up to alarm. That's all right! I may want to talk to the random random looks like you might have some known as mine. You know

I certainly want to talk to a humpback whales. You know what I mean, but now the amount of chimpanzee there. Do you you mentioned a ratings in applying the apes, the ring tones were the diplomats awry. those were the police at the chimpanzees worthy were the academic research scientists has re just further out anyway. So let's lives in this segment. We're gonna come back and go straight to questions. This is like marvellous expertise to have on startup, because, with this is like we ve all thought about this and you guys get to declare your profession and we're all jealous movie right, bad things

better when they go your way and with windows pc powered by Intel, you can make share and do what inspires you and packs others. What do you want? A laptop or tablet a pen to take notes on screen something that can handle all your apps and games or the graphics and speed for gaming with windows pc powered by Intel. You have a device that was made for you. till you can keep making what inspires you and everyone else. Windows and Intel made to inspire, learn more at Wendell, that calm, slash me to inspire windows, dot com, Slash made to inspire I'm jolt Jericho and I make pottery. You can see my pottery on my website: cosmic mugs, dot, com, cosmic mugs, art that lets you taste the universe every day and I support star talk on page

beyond this- is STAR talk with Neil the Grass Thyssen Rebecca startle Cosmic varies addition because we're talking about how to talk to Wales, truck, nor I have any clue to that end. We Brian Phd experts on this topic Michel for Nay and Ellen Garland, each other specialise in animals. Communication they were each featured, both featured, the documentary fathom fathom which you can find on Apple tv Plus, was also entered into a film festivals, which are always fun to attend. A quick test, check. How long is a fathom

pretty long meal, nor can you said your rhetoric and fat and is anything but metric. A war is available or I'm I'm in trouble. I'm in Trouble Michel how lonely without sixty six, we, I think she's about right. I think you're right there right that's right right, that's my ear is failing, are under the bustle. Ready so can you fathom is the speed? Is not there much. You know when you think about Let's go to queue from our supporting patria. On members, these items they support our. What we do, in other words perks in return. They give us money, Can I eel doesn't like to say that Eliza use words like to use you futuristic, whereas likes reports? support, and you know, I'd like you to give us money, you give us more ever review.

All seriousness. The people from my patriotic give us the needed do some things that we have always would not do so. We have. We experimented, do things that are just fun and will let you know what that when that happens, I struck you give us one: that's gotta, tomorrow's pies and tunnel I says hello, it seems to me the verbal coming. Occasion under water or any other liquid would be difficult? Do you think that intelligent life that Lisbon beneath the surface could communicate using something else, and sound that's really kind of cool concept? in Wales is definitely sound. The Euro zone When will you think about that? That's it It's really good question I mean, and what do you really want? A guy for sound a main visual communication, as Michel was saying earlier that you're, not gonna, say

that fire and water. So it's it is we all about sound and their actual cases. Signals right now, a of other ways we take for granted that you can't do underwater exactly it's a really different environment and, I think also came out. Section. That's not gonna So as far as that is really all about sound and what I'd be really surprised if there is any different communication system Michel, due to different frequencies are sound travel, different distances that's cause. You're underwater, it doesnt mean sound. Doesn't work is another medium through which the sound is moving it just a pressure rave through the molecules serve as the physics of it so that the whales have they found a special. we can see where they can talk a gazillion miles around the world. Yes, actually well gazillion miles, perhaps not, but again so loaf a gazillion is just not just warmer than sixty five and a half.

a problem, so low frequency sound is what we think of as low pitch and it means that there's a longer wave legs, so wavelengths actually have distance of distance and philosophy, and so your voice, mail is lower than minds. You have a lower frequency voice, which means the erratic they underwater your voice would travel further than mine. What and has to do with the physics of the situation of loss, energy high frequency sounds a very short wavelengths in their use for short distance communication Finally, the true in the air to I mean this wide lightning sounds very snap, Cracklin poppy. When is right near you, but It's on the horizon. You only here the low rumble,

lost all the high frequency, the yen selves, with whales, depending on institutions in general, depending on what the sound is used for it might be lower frequency for long distance communication, or it might be very high frequency soon be used for things like echolocation or for short distance communication and then because of the physics of sound under water because of pressure in the ocean and temperature is actually something called the so far channel the sound fixing and rain. Jane Channel, which is an area of sounds a minimum and sound can get trapped in this underwater channel and travel for thousands of kilometres? because otherwise it'll just escaped, and then you lose it. So if you keep it contained, it'll just reflect back and forth from these layers. I love it God love? It is this a similar layer in the atmosphere, it's cool Diana fear, and I am radio waves when they hit the atmosphere They actually reflect back down. So you can. You can detect M radio who hasn't a radio anymore

beyond the horizon, whereas FM straight out and it doesnt reflect so I'd I'd like these parallels between earth's atmosphere and the ocean so you're sticking with you guys, both your stricken with sound on this wound. Is it and I ask the question speaking of sound when we speak, we force air pass our courts, they vibrate and creates the zau. How do these cetaceans do it do they force water through the way we do or how are they produce in the south are gonna, throw them to Michel cause she's has a fantastic answered for their, so whales use air just like we do they Have something that's analogous to vocal orders which are part of so different folds and they passed air back and forth through different scientists cavities in their brain

So, unlike your eye, when we exhale air comes out of her mouth in them, it's taken other in Hell. I'm cetaceans lack should take the unhealthy Let's go under water and then move that around back and forth across these local falls in order to produce sounds so no, say Chuck. They would make excellent jazz musician. Yes, just think about yeah because they can hold a note for ever. You could just move back and forth in the saxophone. Oh my gosh. We need that in Sebastian banned in any mermaid was what was their way. Neither wasn't a window in his back and there's a residence permit. They were merely as an out o my God been Sebastian and the you been around. Ok, I would you mind. I've been born, yet when they I also very cool out as emanating

I give you another question here we go, this is Elliot. Frost. Do you believe? If we can utilise the electromagnetic spectrum to attempt to come, Ok, what these marine mammals in a way to sort of replicate what it would be like to try to communicate with a cosmic society That may not know how to use the electromagnetic spectrum. Same way that we do so. Why can we talk to them and they're not know that we're talking to them, but somehow we let them know we're talking to them, which I believe he just described. The whole premise of your impotent. sort of. So I'm gonna take a stab at this, but I'm hoping that those of you who understand the electromagnetic that will do little to better. I think that what we are trying to do is not to communicate with whales. The way that we want to be communicated,

we're trying to understand how they communicate with each other means that we need to work on their terms. We are adopt, in their way of perceiving the world airwave addressing survival. That's right. You have is a famous quote from Carl Sagan. He was saying: why is it judge animals intelligence by whether they can communicate with us when, maybe we should judge our intelligence by whether we can communicate with them exactly? That is exactly what we are working on so when you think about what might be beyond our earth or extraterrestrial intelligence why is it that we have such an inn miss ego that leasing that everyone must be Gower Language instead of learning? If there's, we have intelligent life right here on this planet and we have not yet interpreted how it is communicating with it. self? That is a really lovely analogue for perhaps trying to understand something other worldly when there's a lot of consumers. There's a lot of elephants. Opens.

well many animal with a brain bigger than now, we re so the audacity of us to declare that we could speak with other animal elsewhere when we can't speak with the other animals on our own planet. So I'm embarrassed by that fact. Let me just say that right now, ok, so levity greater if they actually because they do have bigger brains they all spoke our language like, but them when we're around they're, just like oh by Sarah yeah a kind of Germany's you come down because some sound right on idolized. That's why we're here I see, offer this our breath or other language guys. We don't even like we don't even know what have the communication is, is for Even though I ain't I studied this, on which is the male display. We don't actually know exactly what its for an.

That's where we're ads and there's passengers were. I would you get together with with bird people because they try and understand bird songs. How different is this? Really? It's like a slide down beds, in some respects, so, if you oh down a birdsong consult like a well and every speed up well song? It can sometimes sound like a canary yeah. We we definitely spend a lot of time with with bird people with Birdsong people and a lot of it Classification and now understanding of the structure of song comes from Birdsong, because that was farmer established before also at least better only foreign soldiers? We really will around that. It is a bird right. Yes tell me about it very last, only about it just trying to get these recordings of these males singing that little hearts out. So just one point relative to the question- and I don't know if this is what he intended, but around the world

the gulf. Vienna use electromagnetic energy using light of some frequency, and that would mean you would be showing the whale and its eyeballs would be seeing some kind of electromagnetic information. So that would be like writing. There's something where some symbol and by the way, that is any different from the deceptive So what are you guys? Oil in the movie arrival there sound that were anything but technically it was sort of the absence of light because it was making these ink drawings and the Incas absorbing light, but that then becomes the symbol. So have you ever thought of communicating with them? Not I saw, but just by giving them suddenly look at Ellen. Have you thought about that? I trust so song bias? That does not, even if you I'm, I'm, I'm I'm on that side of the communication spectrum. So I just I I'm too passive acoustic. So I recalled what they're saying

and what their singing I don't try in place Are you can't record with their writing because they tell I mean I think there s big spare with with. If we think about the soul is really has a lot of risk petition and that its really repeaters, Hove and redundant so you think about whether, if you're trying to get a signal out you'd want redundancy built and because you may only catch the end of that signal at some point, because at this time spreading out. You may just see the last little faint bit of a particular theme or a particular phrasing you think, there's. No, there is aware- and as well as this is the city philosophy where you don't want to give a long dissertation because they might and might not know that you began it yesterday, might ended in three days. So you sending, repeating signal exactly and as such. Not that is redundant. It's that you just being sensible about when they might come into the come into

the drop in here so that that, with that in mind, how do you determine what is this whatever phrase or word or whatever you want to call it? How do you determine what sound to try to decide like you know like, for instance, there are certain things that we know mean something like how right so, even we ve never spoke English right. If you never spoke any land and yours about a guy like you would know that is a distress call right just, but if you keep listening over and over you like Oda persons in trouble, so how do you I'm down like what the one thing is that you want to identify. Ok, first, truck? Did you become a petrol memory? I stole a patriot on a slot. I know I'm just consciously.

like this, why? I am not going to ask getting more now our values pursued. I can answer that question you. You spend, spend a decade listening first, so that Exactly what we wanted to do was to find out what is the essential when somebody screens that you it's because there's something essential that a shared among all people. So for Wales, we looks to find out what is sound, but that is essential to humpback whales communication, like the whale boat is chasing me help the whalers want my blubber. They said we wanted to know what is a sound but always produce that mail whales per day, a female whales, produce old wheels, young whales, baby whales, any population animals that will never have been separated three million years of genetic isolation still produce the same. Sound That was the sound that we decided to start with. We said okay, this is probably foundation of. This is essential.

So in order to figure out what that sounds, means now that we ve identified that there's something important, we're gonna play it back to them and see how they respond, so Viewscreen help an ice cream help we're both in trouble. Luckily, the sound doesn't appear to mean that it is more of a way of saying to the ocean. You know I am- and I am Here- and I am and then other Wales will respond With- and I also am I am here. I m me: but time like I just spells, was ink Therefore I mean there's a dead. We heard the people of Wales where there were. I think it's that there were three freak us out. We found out that their philosophy clouds that so little God, that's, who you want to what it sounds like. Yes, yes, This is important for airlines were too because this is a sound that appears in some pretty regularly, but

you call em in Ireland a generous imitating a whale. You mean in the Netherlands, I know my very respected and esteemed colleague the call is called a wolf call and it sounds which is what the sound sounds like. So that is a sound that humpback whales worldwide all produce do that again. Well. Well, it sounds like a voice. Warm up before you go in and get it they do an underwater laugh. So so, quick I'd week we get a rapid segment and come back with more questions from our audience. If Chuck doesn't keep steel, what is lacking- is a couple of things underwater as a particular vibrational frequent underwater is now vibrating denser medium, so that its frequency will change. So you just gave me

a sound that I'm hearing in air argues. That is that what it said, like underwater and you're, giving it an air version of it. Or do you need that underwater and it's gonna take on its own frequency profile. So that's what it sounds like underwater at close range got it, and, and so I thought there was a clever you know about it. I'm not a whale person. Maybe you guys thought this was the stupidest thing ever, but I thought was a clever element of of the STAR Trek for ok. The voyage home, which is otherwise known as save the whales right- and I know you ve seen those movies that other serious and in it there's a sound, they can't interpret and was Spock, who figured out let the most the sound on the water and then that's a whale sound and so did give him credit for thinking that forest. We want that online. Sure, yeah, absolutely ok,

downstream protection yeah. I mean the way that sound propagates through medium, like a house on propagates their waters very different and south, have some profits through air you in this is the media is very closely coupled with the sound producer. So few Nathan found in water and at that same animal words, even attempt to make it an air, probably wouldn't work to point to some propagation changes according to density in temperature. Yes, You get these, what he called the so far lane or myself. I cannot settle for China and love it. You have to be in the self Archie enough for that works out. If you were to mobilise under it or above at your side with the travellers are very, very cool. Could take a quick breakin when we come back church?

ok? We need you to tell me, give the question I'll go, get as many as we can, when we return, when we figure out how to talk to weapons to pay. If you want to find versatile, comfy and confidence, boosting styles that help you stand out in a good way, you ve got a sharp and express they have a fresh mix of casual polished, super comfortable style that will inspire self expression. Hey you uncomfortable, swept pants, inspired comfort, try the four way hyper stretched, Denham expresses stretches, Denham ever come might need appear those and, on top look good with expresses some reprinted shorts leave shirts and tropical geometric

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us back startled third and final segment retorted, but I have thought of Hannibal. If you're not dark to do it, but we have our version of Doktor Doolittle here, Michel, foreign aid and Ellen Garland and their expertise is precisely what we need to have this conversation. So let's do this jockey, like two questions. Talking to Wales, yes, let us continue the I love this question from Chris Plots and Chris says how big of a problem is: noise pollution in the oceans. Is there something we can do to mitigate the effects, while keeping our supply lines and tat and then download an addendum audits because it's his question. How great was the last year

the simpering and everything's grounds, but so true Ellen. Isn't it right that most commerce I was on shipping lanes so that in principle maybe the whales could adjust to that tackling there was a lot of low frequency sound being put into the ocean which can interfere with the communication, a range of particular Big Bailey Wales, which communicator those long distances? And, of course there are shipping lanes, so those can be built a little bit effort. If it's on a migratory rouse, at least we can understand where the whales system to go and win, and trying to minimize these overlaps and this interference in their sound space between the whales and I'm out, shipping because we do need to move stuff around the world, but we also need to provide quieter locations, a particular time

dear that's, really important for the well say when their when they're giving birth, in particular carving grounds amazing grounds just to make sure that they are able to hear each other so that they can find each other if you can't find of. If you can't hear me, you can't find the maids to actually reproduce, and I can tell you this. It seems to me you don't want to piss off a whale Because whatever butcher in the whales gonna win, seems to yeah. I'm thinking, I'm just think Everyone is more about. You really do not want to Eritrea. While I mean you don't want to do that, that's not come in there. I am. I shall I saw Youtube video of a whale. It was, did some add a spite. I know it like the impartiality and stop. This we'll came up and just just so active

laptops tail down and it didn't quite capsize the boat, but you know, even if it's not true, let me keep thinking that cause. It was built. There was a beautiful thing: they used to call gray whales, devil fish in the sea, a core task, because if you would separate accounts from her cat, she would actively go after the boat, so it without this horrible toxic, where they would try to do that to draw them the bigger whales in so bs date they don't mess with a Mamma whale oh yeah, I owe you do not mess with Ireland. on this very memo of members who are mammals, do where we protect our young yeah. Why comment about the covered think we just wrapped up some really cool new research on this week? dropped, Hydro phones in Alaska during Covert and the year before us away to told us it was a hundred, oh, an underwater microphone. It's how we live. under the whales.

Ok, Hydro as in water and then phone there's an ogre hydropower. No new word for me. I was so we go hide your phone found in twenty nineteen to listen to Wales and also just a document ship trapping so that we can answer that noise question that your holler had about it. But what we did when the pandemic hit was we dropped another hydrophobia and in certain parts of Alaska we documented a threefold decrease in waste associated with the pandemic, but business even this is even a bigger deal. There was a twenty five fold decrease in the loudest part of the day, so wench Epps would pass over our hydro fallen in twenty nineteen. It was twenty five times less. older than the loudest moments during the pandemic. And we noticed a change in how humpback whales communicate in quiet Ursus how humpback whales, communicating vice what we will that makes sense. Yeah we do the same thing. I mean anybody who has been to a nightclub, those that you all

you don't come home from work. You got your life, you know to do their job. Agricultural income yeah, good cool man that is really cool stuff, I rang girls just keep going because unless segment, I want monsieur gonna. Many too many questions as we can that out, they'll have to have another chance. Some of us do, we have will whisperers on the show just point taken. Ok here This is our friend Violeta and her mom is. He says other animals criminal. Can't use most violated this a twelve year old IRA and she thirty. and yet she was asking questions like the last twenty years. That's hilarious, while at once be master physicists by. We must not forget that she says utterance

must communicate using sound frequencies and wavelengths of light that humans can neither see nor hear. So what does the coolest? Crazies means of communication that you guys of ever encountered in any other species, I have my. I have my vote. I know what my vote is because only once. You start that, and I think, the question is now awesome. I I'm kind of stumps. I I mean, for I know: you're, not stop the ILO Guys life remember this is its well you're all my life. If you stop the experts, we're gonna have to cancel you, so I reckon I've. I've heard some really strange sounds be made by a humpback because, whenever anyone's like, oh can you play me some song? They want this gorgeous. Really morning

what you guys in used a harem records in you know they can makes him horrifically scraped. She the horribly grow knee high frequency sounds as well and the religious not. I was incredibly surprise when I she started listening to humpbacks all that they make this whole variety of sounds from from the lower, for Quincy screwed up the almost whistle maybe some of it just simply not songs sets off all I'm about. Maybe I mean when you listen to our songs, it. Maybe it's just like a W H, H, Ellie Radio, nobody denies them. We got some sententious tat metal come swimming right, that's what it is: heavy metal, sagacious music as politeness,

Michael boldly. I reckon I can vote there. We know where Ellen's taste line of Michel do you have. It was the weirdest former communication, you see Wales or otherwise to oh, I think, the one that always blows my mind. I don't study and I've never seen, but anyone who had it was a beekeeper could is this. Is the wagon They said they largely of the ethical bees, communicate the location of their food by dancing. So they do this, well go on? There will be little bee buts and they do in such a specific way that they can actually convey all crazy information to the other members of their hives and I'm a terrible dancing. If I were to do a wabble dance you wouldn't get are, and I think that it is one of the coolest way

that anyone you hold your whole colony would go. Sting depend on you and whirled around me might with another direction. Is bad, but I've used words even worse, but I've been. Let me tell you something: beat working is gotta, be up there with the best its work in what they do and as if it were the better That's why they call. Today we wanted a whole episode in cosmos. Begun be bade the bee waggled. It's always the other alternating another one is. it's a sound, but we can hear it on elephants, produced Then called a rum ball in Infer Sonic, sound reality in others believe wavelengths too high for us to see. These are sounds to love, reload and so people for a long time didn't even think that they are communicating at all and Katy Pain, whose a researcher and also my neighbour, she actually started thinking about the fact that these elephants were communicating with sound that actually transmitted through the Brown,

and then could be detected so those eligible for that low frequency goes further examined. My way in air and water, such amphorae, solid cell, is found travels either through water. air, but he travels even further through a solid than it does to water. The denser, the medium term, let me put your gear honouring a railroad track very effective in here, orientated fall asleep we'll be in municipal up against the iraqi people. you make more, we can get in God and by the way mind was chemical communication through lay at the way ants. So here we go. My fate would be when the aliens com and it we communicate- tell a basically they'll, be that's what I'm looking to get out of my browser,

don't you are alien is called out. I could become an arrogant, Zat MECCA once you know, there's good morning from Atlantic Canada, austrian philosopher, Ludovic Beating region thing didn't steal that if a lion could talk, we could not understand her. His point was that consciousness is taken radically different forms in different animals. Is this valid concern when conversing, with intelligent marine mammals such as dolphins and whale all's many gloomy. Let me shape that a little differently, I'd like their question, but I wanted to focus a little differently. We, study, human brains. We can isolate the language centre right and you know the communication centres. So is there similar sorter? You know the eight cagey or MRI Dunham Whale brains to you needed you need a machine bigger to stick them inhabitants, but do we do they have learned

centres as we do, and if that's the case, do they have the same? motives as we would win with as we try to communicate. I can take that myself and you want to go for it I've, had refused to take a step further than it did for three hundred, while brain like that's the first by yet we humpback whales heads are fifteen, belong in the eight thousand, council getting a minute. Memorize tribute bites, someone squeeze it, it may bring matters pre sweetie. I think that is perhaps not, but one of the big differences in how cetaceans communicate how humans communicate. We have language and that we have representational acoustic signals. I missed my hands, I have a high a whale, doesn't have a word for flipper, a whale, doesn't have a word for fish. All of the sounds that wheels make to our

knowledge. Again, we don't. We don't know how will perceive the world or even really how hears very well but the way that they uncommunicated interpreters through action, function and motivation, and so they might have a sound that is associated with foraging. They may have a sound is associated with reproduction, but it's true that you can translate whale because it's not representational speech. Now, if there is this really, Great principle called motivation structure, theory that were motivational structure theory that mammals and many terrestrial vertebrate share. That fearful sounds are sort of high entreaty scary, sounder lowered, proudly bar and that we can translate the different sounds of pitch and timber to understand. something about motivation, which is a bit like a science. If science friendly wasting emotion, we don't know no temperature,

This kind of that gives around you if you're not interpret the were exactly exactly so, there will be commonalities and how mammals produce sounds when they are feeling a certain way, and we probably share some of that with wheels. But in terms of being able to say our language can be translated into real, that's not sure they're, not they're, not all users about holding, oh by the way that it would make sense for them to be in that position anyway, when you think about All of our existence is predicated upon being able to make associations and references. We could survive if we didn't do that, whereas whales I mean their environment, they are, they are one with their environment. You know, I was trucks, flippant, a few more polluting what did you want to? I just I was gonna end. In that Europe we stole down completely unjust

and the communication system were unease standing to scratch the surface surface of trying to understand what some of these displays are, what some of these particular sound types mean or if exactly, if they're, just association with the particular behavioral sitting, we are only just scratching the surface, so tribute of travel one more question bringing on this is biomass, Zelie, says or mutually says this. I'm just gonna be the person to ask it. Nobody else will. Is there even a slight possibility that more people have ever existed? Somebody had to go there. Somebody had a daughter, somebody had to go there. Oh, yes, it another way. I learned embarrassingly late in life that Wales didn't evolve in the ocean. They their answer.

Sisters were land mammals. That somehow I did they rather swim. Therefore living and so at some point might I add, the mammal that could just do both well, I might I got the opposite way on that and say more people don't currently exist, but some of us and start arm our way back one minute evolution, broad bra men. Was into the ocean. You know we have fish in their fish bench. The camp landed than we had always evolutionary divergence in the same way that Wales returns to the ocean give it. Last time, enough impetus and enough evolutionary drift and random genetic drift and more people perhaps might exists at some point in the very very, very, very, very hard future sovereign she's The plan is the hardest thing. horses to learn the language of the whales, so that you know how to say hello when you get there,

I agree and here's something a little bit a trivial and I was the Tom Hanks movie with slash in slash the with Darrow him as the mermaid. all scenes underwater There are no bubbles coming out of her at all. This was an attempt to show how natural she was under water and that she's. Not trying to just hold a breath or anything that is where she hangs out and apparently she's gills men, otherwise make that clear, gray bird yet so that's that's and then there's always the shape of water. Where you know you just did you not, there's gotta be some sexy people in the oceans felt was okay, so here's my west point there is going to make. So let's say you guys succeed and you figure out how to communicate with whales in their language in ways that they understand

Wouldn't this completely freak them out see suppose we were unwittingly being studied by cats, ok, let's say and then It's not a stretch and then one day they all decide it is time and then a catches goes The White House lawn and pardon me with your positions, I'm pretty sure We would shoot the cat right. We we would kill the cat. No one any talking cats here. So is there it is Are you ok doing this they'll see a different species? giving them information that they give each other and that the Vienna Summit, psychological health. Now the goal whisper the whales to never know where their we all believe we all they do this work so that we can understand them. The goal is not to start a conversation that we're gonna have her ages ages, the goal is not to start a relationship, but we're not like your discovers store.

It is you have. Other drivers are relatively round to regard is the best example. Yes, we have a prime directive not to interfere, but we do want to understand to conserve something to protect its existence we have to. We have them straight to the scientific community and to everyone that it has value. It has to be important, and so the only reason that we are doing something is audacious. As talking to a whale is so that we can understand what they say to each other not to have this concept that they are so was to talk to us and if we do our job well, they will have what seems to be a completely natural, unobtrusive interaction with a sound. The bags Arians every day and that they will. Can you living there totally natural lives, oblivious to our existence I just want you to feel ok in our little eavesdropping is Cobb wiretapping eyes, as we have today

sir. I won't wait a minute one, one one good thing now. Let's say you do figure out you d code, you see you're ever understand with great clarity, and what you find out is that what we are really talking about is or less you say you hear this. the plan to exterminate all human life is on track. Well and will include in the next six months. What are they Has anyone right? Yes, I I would be very surprised if that was what what was being we just let you behind rise, where that is not what we know. What we want you to take us out with some concluding reflections on what to do. but we can look forward to so. I I'm trying

investigate how songs a shared across ocean basins. how whales are learning these really complex, vocal too. Why is it the only the males are doing so? There try understand who, There are singing to whether there seemed females. What other males to say, hi, It makes you a male and I'm really tomato, I'm begging you, go away and how these population level? coaches, are then sheared between these populations. Ass, an entire ocean basin there's really amazing focal cultures. All these incredible both who coaches in the oceans Unbelievable man that- you know, there's more ocean than land, and so and the ocean. Those really deep and land is pretty flat. So maybe we shouldn't have not wish. don't be surprised by any of this at the ocean is where its ad

and I like Michel's plan to breed murmur people so big we should break in on you Michel jihadi coming along main nuclear trajectory for managers? It's never too so guys we're gonna call acquits there. This has been a delight to have both a view on this cosmic queries, and this subject is so rich and so scientifically and culturally interesting their real, I'm sure we haven't seen the under this watch for this documentary film. I catch that documentary fathom and you missed it at the film festivals. You can, check it out on Apple TV plus. That's where you can go to Something for change given the time responding, binging sitcoms, thrown a documentary every now and then and getting closer

through our own planet, that this has been started facing reporting.