Neil deGrasse Tyson investigates mental health, wrestling, and more with AJ Mendez, aka AJ Lee, former WWE wrestler and author of “Crazy Is My Superpower: How I Triumphed by Breaking Bones, Breaking Hearts, and Breaking the Rules”. With co-host Chuck Nice and neuroscientist Dr. Heather Berlin, PhD.
NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/wrestling-with-mental-health-with-aj-mendez/
Photo Credit: © Cathy and David Photography, via theajmendez.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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from the American Museum of Natural history in New York, city and beaming all is based and start with science
this start on your host, your personal astrophysicist near the grass Thyssen, I'm here with Czech NICE, almost descried chutney comic at sites are tweeting at nice. Comic love. You man levy to place. What do you mean you you're here when I needed
absolutely that it wouldn't work if it with any other work. He has done much to you're, always here when I don't need you,
I don't know what it is about: an
every time I look up you're here and I don't need further. You got a very good point,
show. We titled it wrestling with mental health,
ok, so yeah. So what we have here is where featuring my interview with age, amen,
professional rest, yeah, she's, a professional wrestling
like W W W W Ef. I ought to know that begins her daddy WMD ass. I forget which over the next one is she's a professional and what would one have to do with the other? She wrote a book called crazy as myself.
Nice and in it you know, she's struggles with her bipolar disorder right and tried to find how to take control of that were possibly
despite the fact that it exists in some way that can serve her life and so just thought. This was a fascinating story and fascinating.
Case absolutely. My notes, I W W p w e address superstar under her stays named age, ably, where a jailer such I sat down with her in my office to discuss nice who's, who she is.
Well she's about, let's check out the first clear. How did you navigate to pass into the professional wrestling ring? Ah, what when I was growing up
try to find solace and luxury
when I was physically meaningless
large carriage fashioned area. I tried to find solace and escape
and the world a fantasy infection- and so that was comic book,
animal video games, but
I found at such a escape in these worlds of a fantasy where there were superheroes on that that were strong and fighting fighting crime.
And the good guy would win at the end of the day and when I found professional rustling and these people were flesh and blood superhero
in spanish worth and so from a young age. I saw that that it just spoke to me, and I saw
place for me that wasn't represented
it was a superhero. You wanted to be
and in the book I can shout out on the dark, Phoenix saga and Oxman. I thought that was a time unlike like Chris, could
what was making women
stronger and more. If, like the leaders and then to have his character, that was a good guy, but then
Could I can change and was the bad guy I related to that duality, and so I was so obsessed with, with that version of June Gray, retorted with a good part of the report, or both
to be somewhere in between love on those lines blur. I don't know, that's a common people and found them, because so many stories rely on both historically stories relied on destiny
a guy, that's the good looking and maybe the better stories are. Where that's more nuanced, I think so because, whereas where it's easy,
Ok, you have Superman, he's he's a good guy, sometimes maybe they're too good.
It's impossible to achieve that level of of purity I'm. So I
this kind of related to the people who may be had a little bit of dark thoughts. Were
you, you know a little tiny savage was swinging in heading people in school home. Maybe I did that
and you know that you can,
deems arm, but also given to those whose instincts that was fascinating to me?
very very, very, very, very good, so we're gonna bring and Heather Berlin or go to person about brain in the next segment grain. But but before than to have you ever seen a professional wrestling match? What do you think of it? I you know, I am not necessarily a fan, I'm not a tractor
but it s a very euphemistic jacket. Well, don't necessarily a fan. Brother is this. I want them coming after you have regular. I don't wait affairs coming only either because they are quite ass. I say spirited now I'll put it like this. I am it's not for me, but I have spent so much time around people who enjoy
wrestling there, I know alone, most celebrated among them. The most are the ones that I think have the most pageantry. Are they any different from a superhero because their due
super super things in the ring. True I mean some of them are superhero like I would say that differences like what she was talking about with
Nuances in these story, arcs as their superheroes,
tend to be virtuous and good and righteous and forthright all the Tiber, where, as the wrestling sometimes a bad guy whims, they the right person whose portrayed as the bag, and sometimes the bad guy becomes the good guy, and so
the good guy becomes the bad guy in there's our active in their narrative.
Ok, you know, for instance, would want would attract a geek subset may because,
superheroes is very, is very centered in the givers. Yes, and I mean a lot of them are extremely charismatic, and I will tell you that one of the most famous wrestling
of all time from the double dvd Iraq that's right now and his Dwayne Johnson.
Can you walk rock and people would go.
Somebody had all these millennium
I have not seen any of these young people
But, alas, back that worried me the way you did that your eyes were like colleagues may we have seen here. It is
very attractive man. That's all I got out and then of course, late John Siena,
It is another one here, so these guys go onto behind their good actors to become actor. You know. Super super popular as part of their superhero strength is importing pain on others right. So there's an interesting question about pain, impressively sought by while broach that topic lies with a J D. So let's went on this
concept of pain and progressive sweet, so one of the things up
Professional wrestling is the appearance of moves that would impart pain. But in fact out how much
the performance is the illusion of pain to an audience.
Doesn't know that is not actually imparting pain. It sets a little bit of a team,
it's you need the audience to come in with the with this suspension of disbelief. Thing
need to think that if I throw a person toward ropes, they're going to hit the ropes and come back
It is that that they want to believe and then so much of it is trying to make it look like you are
killing your opponent, while simultaneously keeping them alive. You know it's dangerous.
Sport. If you kill have their own. I know what you're gonna work, and so it's this combination of taking care of persons, body and them,
called selling them really selling the moves forward
so is there must be some move school we
With really creative I've seen stuff, like my gosh,
that even work right right, like you said some people to jump up the legs rap you fall down, but bones
a break even looks like they might, but they don't
somehow all the body parts work. There are techniques that, when you learn at the very beginning to I can slip right now outside on the street and a fall in a way to protect me echo my spine, like it, it just becomes instinct
so there's different parts of the body. You can kick that are safer on that make a really loved noise, which sounds like it hurts, and it hurts by this really
Are you and it's really there's checks to the trade for shore? To is a fair to say that the people go to sea professional rustling, there's going to be entertained and to watch highly physically
people more one another, but it put it in entertaining way.
That's just what it is, and I think it's like this kind of unspoken agreements with
man's as, like? You know, you're what you're getting you have to suspend or disbelief when you enter the doors
and just kind of deal
I feel the moment, but I would compare it to arm like us.
So a mixed
Saturday. Night live, there's improv, so much of it is
and, as you know, the Finnish, but sometimes maybe the
looks like we're doing you have to do. You have to change on the fly and you have to figure out a way to speak to your opponent.
Without anyone seeing when you're surrounded,
every angle, I'm so that's an art form in that way. It's a dance and end in it
little bit of everything of every entertainment industry. So how do you prefer the Sultan
injured and when you do get injured, did you have any regimen to come back from it? How did that all come together? I think
made it more difficult for me, is on a bipolar and
cancer medications its
You get injuries, some people, you know where local caretaker painkiller, like I couldn't do that. I didn't trust myself during and I think that was safe. So I had to kind of power through all that stuff you're, so interesting furred when you think of injury, think what could break a bone right so, but generally people think about acceleration rather than speed right. So this speech kills yet as false. Ok, sorry, she kills acceleration gifts and negative acceleration, which we have word were deceleration rate, is the most common thing that will kill you.
In anything. So that's why high jumpers whittling? That's why pull voters right when they land on the other side? They don't want on cement right yet exactly because that if they let us demand,
I wouldn't go. They dont any more in our day. I remember when I was a man, so you fall and they reach their top speed, and if you hit the cement you go from their top speed. Two zero in a fraction of a second rate that breaks boned. Ok, so if you want to do is spread out the time,
over which you slow down and arithmetically acceleration is the change in your speed, divided by the time. So, if the time gets large, your acceleration becomes less so they land on pillows
She had the top of the pill outright and then they stop their motion by the time they squish to the bottom of the pillar right. She spread that out. That's where they can pop up and take another Polwarth gray after and not just be scooped off the ground.
So, as is the true knows where the early pulverizing matches, where they just shovelled. You up. This isn't caravans
private, exactly trod the care,
drug has won the gold medal, but he can only do it wants are so if you're, not if you dont, want to get injured
whatever it is you're doing, while you're moving make sure that you come to a stop over the long undermine possible. Ok right, if the ropes that the restless get thrown it and two were made of steel, then they could be
probably in a ribbon, the vertebrae on their back I'll guy. Ok, now you just made me love wrestling the height of these sort of these elastic. So I throw
go into the road, a bundle, the Youtube like a bunch of cord you. It takes your while to come to a stop right and that energy is pretty
early in the rope and he's about back right. So an end, if you ve ever played on a wrestling match, never in a professional manner is very springing.
You're, not thinking of workers, your pay attention to the wrestlers, but if you look at when they get thrown down, it actually has give to its spring, give to it right so that you don't you know, breaking
we're getting slam onto the Matt you. It takes a few inches to go in,
and then there are you hear it when you, when they hit its bottom up. Like you hear that kind of you really are, and you ve been to these match, no way you
No, I don't I'm telling you really like it
Pretty tying up up up up reciting to me what the mat sounds like after they get thrown onto has got what is only so, it's all about it. So if you're in a car accident way you're your chances of survival in much greater if the car takes a long time to come to a stop, that's why airbags deflate when you hit them? It's why you have your bags? Let you hit the bag of air raids, stead of
dashboard? Who the truth is the bag with the Arab actually deflate it will it'll cushion you to do to have more time for you to come to a stop right when Dale Earnhardt died. Ok, here
our accident was. He was going to involve an hour and then zero in a fraction of a second, I said, he's not survive and reach. The people didn't see a twisted wreck. They didn't see play
I didn't see tyres role in that, sadly, because the usual spectacular crashes, that's what you know the drivers. Ok, there's! That's me
likely to be ok, that's a long time for the car to come to a stop right and that's why they
these videos and they walked right, they get out
in a way that are outside the end they walked parties. Well, here is that it's because oh my gosh look what happened to the car and the card. You know the breaks into pieces over a hundred yards
and the guy gets our walked because it took that long to come to restart. So there s really difficult. Of course, they walk, of course, the issue of physic physics, one I want, of course they walked. Lets. You ruin everything, I'm just so checking back to a Jays, bipolar disorder right. She wanted to
but a reclaim, the word crazy right,
in her own way, so it's fine. I was behind that check that
It was a very conscious decision to use a word that might be divisive, but it might make people even if I might rub people the wrong way, and I was kind of enjoyed the and the point in doing is
have these words that make people go. You give the word letters our over you,
and so for me, every I've been labelled so many things I ve been I've been called bitch
I've been called louder than called impulsive. I've been called poor ugly freak rebel.
Easy I'll call you when you're mistaken there s, no, no, I just
I try to avoid labels because they their excuses for not thinking more
deeply around seven percent actually is definitely an and busy.
Things that were used against me. They were sharpened and as a weapon against me and when
you own it and when you say, oh being crazy, has given me power and given me Italians, that it would have
if I wasn't and being short and being looking different than the other girls. May me successful is the reason for my success.
I own it now and I I control. I have the power and I think that's the first step in these stigmatizing mental illness is there aren't they should be hush
We should be able to talk about it, joke about it.
I do. I take nothing so seriously where I can't make fun of myself.
And and that's kind of the first step and in the conversation starting
Did you go so check when we come back,
re gonna bring and have a Berlin yes to get to the bottom of. It will be ready
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We're back on startup
My interview with a tremendous professional Ruslan who suffers from bipolar disorder but turn that into her superpower and wrote a book crazy as mice
repellent check. I've been talking about her in the wrestling ring, but to take us any step further,
We need some real brain expertise.
So we bring em Heather, Heather Berlin
yeah. No, I didn't
no stranger to start or not
the the flagship but also your hosted, Northstar talk all stars yeah. So thank you for
when that I'm gonna be wonderful to have you and of course, so our first airing this
mental health awareness months, our
May we get a whole man homer suit, so tell us what is by port assorted cause? I don't really know. Ah,
many people, don't really know. Yeah so that by, but that is just one thing- are different type
can I that we can play in different categories of bipolar disorder, some basic
in general. It involves having both depressive episodes,
and then manic episodes, but rather the opposite of depression. Yes, yes, MA
it gives, like you know, being basically higher
Yeah and of the new programme does not have anything wrong with agony,
you will make. Actually you know they often enjoy the manic episodes. They have racing thought they have a lot of energy. They don't really need a lot of sleep, they feel very creative on, but they can also be impulsive.
And go shopping, spree ease and things, but it is actually subjectively feels really good to be in these states. Council,
like math, pretty much, I meant, but but but not everybody has there there's a difference in terms of the severity of the magic episodes of some people have what we call hypo me
which is kind of a mild episode of Mania Hypo, as are the opposite of hyper yeah. It's ok,
but there's still manic, but it's just a more mild manic episode, and so, if you have both a major depressive episode and then
have a hypo mania. You have what's called bipolar to disorder, but if you had to type to go call I apologize,
Two votes like mental verse of diabetes, about physiological excited ass. You do what the political scuba astrophysics! We have Taiwan and tried to supervise the tulip dutiful origins rates, the type
one is basic going. You have a major army of romantic episode and you don't necessarily need a depressive apples.
Norton usually eventually get one, but just having
one major manic episode, you'll get diagnosis bipolar type, one,
and then usually eventually, you'll have some sort of depressive upside down. The road of causes
Something happened on others. We ll have a really big question. You mean should only as well. We haven't had a dozen I possibly have someone up is yes, we know that at least eighty five percent- a variant- it's really
genetic, so there is a huge genetic component to it. We know there are jobs
all patterns of brain observation that we see people bipolar disorder that have to do with
regulating emotion, so parts of the brain, the eventual Medio Prefrontal Cortex, which regulates the amygdala emotional parts of the brain it doesnt work as well.
What have you migdol? Oh it's in terrible. Tell you that right now
their legs. What seems to be like super acted very additive, but it's not as active in the prefrontal cortex. So they don't. They can't modulate those strong emotions.
I saw your middle add. Is that where your fight or flight comes from is that Europe can a lizard brain, exactly yeah yeah you're, like crime all I'm here, and I need a higher order, parts of the brain to contain that exactly
you get angry with someone you just punchline without actually regulating
for, I will be like is normally could have the urge a cabinet. I feel like punching you, for example, shock I do now and then and then another part of my re would say: wait you know what that might not be the best idea in that part of your brain says punch of hard. So it's the same thing with these urges, but also with emotions. He might have a feeling of extreme sadness. Org
dream happiness, and normally our brain cut, a modular because we want homeostasis. We want to be kind of in our kind of comfort zone, but when there's this,
deletion there than you have these high highs and these low, which the treatment. So
We, you know, heavy treatment has not
believe all that much in the last fifty years, still electoral.
They're fine treatment is still basically lithium, which is as this basic elements glory.
Tabled, and I don't ever do that. I would like to thank my shot for your advice here. Let's nobody had ever do their lives is actually causing a logical, listen, I'm not very much of it in the same very little,
Mason was saying. Was the big bang depressed
a blue bird,
you'll. Be Bang. Has issues re medicated, don't understand it's already. Why am I here? A big bang has existential? Has it there's no hope for any of the others
aren't you take some cosmonauts who led the way we use. I don't think we make it otherwise you get it from nature
yes it's it's big! Bang! Listen, that's!
Actually in so that's the first time a number of other variations. We have an answer: compulsive drugs, which are also considered to be moved, stabilizers, no antidepressants, interesting way. You would never give them alone to treat by play.
This order, because it actually can throw you into a matter raise versus
I'm gonna take my antidepressants like all right. This is awesome. Everything is also everything does exactly on Sweden for lead. My fine day, you I've, told you, I'm not. An image problem is under great gotta clip of Asia. Talking about treatment, oh great, let's see where she takes us on how
early in your life. Were you self aware that you had bipolar disorder cause you eat? You bring it out in this book. I think for many peoples the first time knowing this about
was I correct? Ah I I can't remember a time when I didn't feel like there's something a little off with me, but I was only officially diagnostics:
nineteen. Twenty so took me a while, but once I got diagnosed everything kind of made sense, whatever stress factor the bipolar disorder
I knew you were nonetheless still creative and productive ass. A student
So so, when you diners,
Nineteen it or that does the medication to tamper down or had, or is it at work
definitely and louder borders.
I don't know in a lot of people, get intimidated about the long road to recovery, and sometimes you will get misdiagnosed as I've just been depressed and antidepressant really dangerous,
polar. But when you find the right diagnosis, it's a bit of a struggle to get your perfect formula for treatment.
But if you just fight through that its browsing, the careless really is it even where too, for someone else they could have the same. Diagnose yes to people are not can have the same, treat the lock and at the same modification or just we're how they treat them is often live.
There's, meditation or exercise or therapy. I'm you have to find the right cocktail for you, and I found that luckily early enough to in complete control over my life, so I would prefer to include exercise in meditation.
As part of what is the cocktail. Yes, these countries, not just the chemistry that you jest it's the restive, how you manage your life, I think
so anything could not only is there no assigns behind a of the ear being the serotonin and endorphins its releasing when you get that high. But there is this something about feeling capable and feelings: strong and ok,
can lift this weight or I did a formal run and just feeling caple ball is some
that will bring you out of any funk that you're in
Heather, I'm curious in modern day. What is this pilot? I can't answer this in a general way, but then be specific. If you need to what is the mixture of dry?
Eggs versus is couch therapy in your universe
and when do you say we can fix this? Just lay down on a couch and talk about your problem,
and when you say I got a pill, call me in the morning rain so any
things. Abhorrence remembers that every thought you have is related to some underlying brain physical brain process, but so once thoughts become
the place where they are so abnormal or innocent so hard to control, whether their negative thoughts or even highly positive thoughts, the
You really look at the underlying neural chemistry and c is there of nor chemical imbalance,
that's causing the imbalance of these thoughts or emotions, and if there is it's, you
Sweden, one answer is not enough. We find that the best effects is this: a synergistic effects when you
treat with the medication would to a brain that needs it ends together with talk therapy or psychological therapy. So it's killing the thoughts in the brain and, at the same time, you'll get a better effect than either on its own lobbying said, though, if there's some somebody who might
of some sort of psychological problems, but they're not related to nor chemical imbalance. Then taking the drugs can actually
do more harm than good absolute? So how is it possible that an emotional problems can lead to
rural chemical problem, so you start off with the trauma or add a problem and that problem actually chain
Does your brain to authorise it so there?
who actually have a neural chemical processing about a friend
yeah. I'm trying to say is the money has gone up. Let me
Heather, maybe I can we haven't, might have to charge for this ban on. It's always the sort of its advance between our brain
is, is constantly getting. Information are interacting with its environment and its developing and changing because we momentum in us what memory is memories and actual physical change of the brain?
so we do know that, especially in the developing brain, which is most vulnerable, if your exposed to stress and especially to repeated stressors, it actually releases cortisol and it can affect things like the development of
the campus, for example, so people who have travelled here that's why they talk about how impact for children
can be even yeah right into adulthood. Yes, it's I mean job at any stage is cadmium handful, but it's
even more so in China, because the brain is sold developing, it is much more vulnerable, and so we-
oh, that in older in we look adult brains, people who have certain psychiatric illnesses have smaller, hippocampus
smaller Migdol eye and then the question becomes. Is it because they were exposed to early life stressors? Or is it because
I have a genetic predisposition, they were born that way and they dont have this Neuro protective factor like maybe having a larger hippocampus enemies, will protect you from developing psycho psychiatric illness when you're under stress. So we just will know what came first that sugar, the egg, but yes, environmental experiences can certainly effect
rain truck- was a big man on his hippocampus now ass, I
for the next clarity for the item. I asked age.
So the next clip. I asked a J any part of her personality that sheet share. The credits were blames on her bipolar disorder,
For me, it is the source of my powers. If you will
I find that I believe me, I believe in myself, possibly a little too much, sometimes
You know I was there, I don't think a lot of people thought you could go from homeless.
On a champion on television or they
from being underweight and sickly to being in wrestling into it athletic career this line, we it unthinkable
arrest, sir, was smart enough to write a book by herself political words in your mouth, but you would say that being bipolar did away defined, who you came to be
a death and lady trying to raise my task as a kid out with
aroused or not, but looking back I know. As far as I can remember, I haven't bipolar wearisome diagnose sent, but it me
mean braver and made me tougher.
Made me a little brazen and maybe that rubbed people the wrong way, but it was, I was always honest, rubbed the monopoly.
And you know I'm the kind of person. I can't really keep my mouth shut. If I see there's some sort of injustice in the world, even if
stand up alone. I'm gonna stand up.
That is to say always I'll. Kick your ass and so I've been paying with extra empathetic because you had these days,
large range of emotions. I can feel their peoples pain,
maybe a little so deeply abilities. I understand mom, and so it is the source of I think my best qualities are have come from being bipolar and I'm
brain to think of who I would be without it somewhat pushed back on their just a little over this final, something from it. Clearly severe mental illness is country indicated in evolution. We might think you might think that if you can't really function or your cannot connect to reality, that would
so like it out evolutionary, but apparently it hasn't. There's any inciting your profession about that. Yet
allow a number of the psychiatric illnesses don't develop in total. You, everybody babies, you exactly derivatives. Will that may or may not have an early advantage in some sense
and then you know afterwards, but now
living longer in and were but, but you know in general, it usually is me
harm than good, and anyhow it's hard to say, let's say, for example, what she would be like. She might still have all those posit right rates with
out the disorder all wet, but would go ahead, but wait, but but wait not to be devils. Africa
but suppose you found a way to snip nip tuck in the brain,
So she never had bipolar disorder.
According to her, and I believe her she would have never become the person who she is then could add is because she is ascribing her achievements to,
bipolar, as this is my point so who are you as a mental health professional to say who should or should not have one illness or another nother? If the fact of overcoming the illness,
is what shapes who you become in life but see here's the prob. Did I ask you this empty after your name, I noticed the AIDS regions, but it appears balanced the auto complete value to see about go now so each
please be not a phd. Ok, so the amount of suffering subjective suffering, not the illness,
as is the patient, is one of the measures that we use in terms of the diagnosis so because most of it is subjective Sullivan.
Without behavioral uniforms, actual impulsively in an annex affecting other people but say something like depression? We have to ask the person: how do you feel how much subjective suffering is this causing you and if a person,
but you know what I'm perfectly v I mental illness. This is you know if I think it brings me you don't whatever my creativity, you know that's their choice, I'm not saying
eradicate all mental illness, but I think it would help to eradicate human suffering and the majority of the time it causes more suffering than it does good, really good answer, yeah,
gangs shops. Did. I just think that really very cogent thinking very insightful. Thank you. I think
human beings have a tendency to a tribute their success to things that otherwise they would not. If they didn't have that's it
So we cannot ignore were examined about exactly so. For instance, you know at ok, logistic. I was bully, there's a kid right, but
there's a part of me that feels like you know the fact that I never back down from bullies and the fact that I was able to handle
makes me a stronger person and therefore I am who I am today, because I was bullied right and then my wife will say: no, could you just a man
did your self. If you would love to nurture the understand right, o labour, I'm always you so you after the fact right ascribe lie writers itemised will be that way. Any there might have been that we anyway or you might have been better yet a model that we have a better, exactly wrangling Beethoven homeless if they were both bipolar. So there's this. Ought this is sort of math, because the people take these very prominent case. Individuals and say look that pursues super creative and they also had some sort of mental illness and therefore those two things must go together, but the truth is when you you look at the epidemiology and suggesting it's just not true it just
wants to be because there's a certain proportion of the population that develops he's, hiding, diagram, exile, voters and people with mental illness. Gonna. Do I'm not gonna be both exactly, and there is also some highly creative people who don't have mental health area, so it's doesn't necessitated
you think they will go out and fight. For example, you grew up in a
Elsie family rights highly productive at all, at all. Everything right nobody's making a movie about his midnight torment right right,
He gave us all those great drawings. Airy was an awesome wrapper. Yes, it's empty
how do you say wrapper, and it goes? I go straight to my husband. I couldn't brand,
I started my reckoning were empty square
in this regard. It is a debate about war, devoid of you start to argue with age remit as professional ressler,
you're crazy users
unlike in the secrets of your world and everything orbiting around it story time
go back to my final segment of star talk to you. Can I interview with AJ, Mendez professional Wrestler, author of crazy is my superpower,
and I got tat a Berlin here to help us out because we're talking about neurological issues,
yes, I've Chuck here so offer my next clip. She describes what she had to do:
life to deal with this affliction?
There is definitely evidence that hispanic community aid
reports their mental illness laughs at bigger, less treatment. There is this,
of machismo and and and this tough tough as nails, sort of
mandates amongst our families, and so that was one thing against me being
Tiny woman was another thing, those against me and I think, there's something
about being young, naive and kind of just hopeful that you
really do anything in the world and not knowing the realities of the world that somehow it didn't stop me. I just made me want to fight for it harder.
If more people felt that way, I think about how to reform the world would be. I think I think we get
and I think that Europe can you, give up, assess them and gets hard when there's the first robot,
yeah yeah yeah measure the forces, and then you look at your. Your fuel supply in his saddle have enough I'll just go the path of least resistance and, frankly, and but the world is shaped by those who take the path of closer,
Definitely such measures
so also coming from hispanic family. As you said, it
reported mental illness. Could you comment on just what the challenges are for any person to be candid or honest about their mental illness? Just as a person separate from what might be cultural yeah, I'm there's a lot of stigma. There's definitely coastal instil cultural.
Frazier, it's gotten much better? I mean much better. It used to be you now and everyone talks about you. I got my therapist vegetables, but you never used to write a body saga about AIDS. It's become so it's in the sort of public like I said if it is accepted, however, and cultures where
You know, there's still, this kind of you know you're supposed to don't cry, and you know
in war veterans, I mean they're free to admit to their PTSD, because you know they don't want to lose their jobs and they don't want to know. And so it's it's a process. It's getting better could just be pushed from about post traumatic stress, disorder, disorder, yeah yeah, but but but there are people were breaking.
Types and and their sort of role models that are like these tough big, macho Montraville look. I
this mental illness and ongoing training for it and that's ok, your age in the subway, no with a big swimmer guy who taught me
help cycle. Throbs right, you'll, take this
Well, we'll people do here saying therapies, helped me it can help you. Yes, just out there with it. Yeah aim is yeah guy and there are others
most people, the actress in Lala lands of her name
monsieur, I must own. She came out talks about her childhood severe exotic, no cd and ended a holders of obsessive, compulsive disorder, and so
when you get people like this, you are willing to come forward and speak up. It makes it better for everybody else and easier to come out and release. Pursue should be true for everything. So, for example, the number of people who went in for colon cancer screening after Katy Courage, husband, died right, her that defence
on the health of the country and even the world was greater than any public service announcement that doctors could possibly make. Yes, I owe my healthy call indicating that's for sure
so is in your hands. Celebrity in power is in your God. Like all so this whole celebrity thing. A j is, is sort of part of that
yeah yeah yeah I get her stage. Name was ably reads as follows:
but she's been doing to try to get the word up his check them to other than your book
how do you have other ways to sensitized people to mental health by the wish to be clear when I was growing up, nobody talked about little have exact day. Just you did not go there exactly there and that's what in my family, you didn't talk about it, it wasn't rail and that's why it took so long tat start helping.
Myself I'm so my goal is to get people to start helping themselves a little bit earlier. I believe most people it takes ten years between onset of symptoms to getting any sort of treatment, which is terrifying white. What can happen, and in those ten years
not that it should take ten years just in practice. People generally do not learn that longer on, because they're afraid to acknowledge at their afraid of what it means. If they have something wrong with the needs treatment on me, when you get somewhere
physical ailment. You go immediately. If you, if you got a cut, you put it back on it. If you're sick, you did, it take hold medicine army who break a bone. You go to the hospital. When you can't see mental illness. People are really pay attention, and so what we're trying to do is start people young, the Jed Foundation is a organization that focuses on youth and kids in high school are great score that have all these pressures for a million different angles and are just trying to figure out who they are and some of,
on top of that are trying to figure out the changes in their brain chemistry and trying to understand that, so they are usually surer middle school Hurstwood freely and then imagine feeling a little bit weaker or a little bit sadder, and so they are really great resource. If you want to see what you have as it is, is,
ordinary or if it is, maybe requires a little bit more treatment or a little bit more of an effort. So if you will learn about symptoms and what coping mechanisms, I would suggest people go to Jed Foundation, DOT Org further help through J E T foundation that Org slash help and that's really good. Jumping off point four, I would say middle scholars and high school kids
the great point because, let's say you're struggling are you said you don't know enough to know whether it's a clinical chemical problem or whether you just need to talk to a friend for both? Yes exactly and they have resources. When you can see you can kind of compare way going through it doesn't last longer than two weeks. I is her appetite changing it.
They pattern, changing little things and whether it's happening a new or maybe your best friend is going through it. It's a big. They have some guidelines that that can help you out just getting started an and what I am also working with Normie Vienna, the National Alliance on a mental illness and right now we have a campaign. That's called that is
to fight stigma. If people can go to nominate out, Org slash stigma free, they can take the pledge to stop shaming mental illness and start talking about it and the second it just becomes conversational and something that were not so scared of that really is the first up at any age to treatment and healing so heavily used struggle to world. Does I shoot you you're using a lot about little house? There might be to avoid conversationally incites into
what's driving people's thought, but you also looked inside people's brains. What's the future of treatment of mental illness, when will the day come where there are no mental asylums? Yeah, that's a big question
you know where we're going in just a few children note with once. You know I am making this up
imagine the day where you met every single neuron rowdy sake?
here's the criminal neuron. Oh there's this, nor Animist nipped snip chap redirect and now this this
psychopathic behaviors is over if only it were so easy because you
if we not be entire brain, the complexity of what entails just having a simple thought, much less of mental disorder,
We might not be able to crack that code. However, I do think we are getting closer.
I'm in another direction, is looking at the human genome and mapping that answer cognitive functions and certain types of disorders. Now I do think that,
we will be able at some point to if using things like crisper modify,
but the genome and perhaps prevent some of these things before they even gone to develop. But there's like home kit too, to genes place a Christmas. I mean it's gonna be right: that sort of designer baby
but there's a lot of obviously ethical issues with that, and you don't know what in that. At that level, you don't know what you're gonna be sacrificing, because of that I think what's closer in terms of our lifetime, is things like neural press
thanks for opening Earl implants, to stimulate parts of the brain to treat psychiatric illness and also arise.
Another, not invasive novel treatment
are the use of psychedelic drugs these illnesses. So we just just got FDA approval for
I was really not
I found out how he has come a long way ahead of me? I don't mean yeah, ok, yeah special K. We have internees, ok, see now the euro wholesome. Are you weren't, hang inimically you'd too busy steady? I was getting my physics astrophysics Phd very well today will see when you
Your peers, bowers. Does Turkey is here we got a lot of new measures. Can you notice present? So basically it's it's. It's not a static. It's a decisive anaesthetic that was it
is actually in children's put them out under anaesthesia. But in small doses, you get these dissociated effects. It was a club drug. I'm sorry there in the early trials of this, because this looking at depression, major depression, not just as a involving serotonin, but also the good amateurs,
system in the brain and other neurotransmitter system in the brain and miraculously people with severe depression was suicidal, who have tried
every other drug- and I you depressing on this- has intravenous ketamine as amazing effects. I mean an ice
in patients like anecdotally end, but we know from the research, so they just earlier this year, approve
internees, all a spray of KEDO, a sort of a cousin of Kennedy in isomer that will treats depression and
looking at things like suicide and am now saw an experimental, sages and basically ingredient shuttle chemical, its chemical,
we have. No money is we're. Sack of chemistry. Is your own static article ray we just saw so my best friends are made a chemical of these is a temporary fixes, their night cures until we really understand
how the brain works and for every successful chemical, that's evidence.
Deeper understanding of what actually happening chemically in your brain yeah. That's got
help going down the line. It helps it's a piece of the puzzle. There's a lot of pieces of the puzzle, theirs
The north is the oligarchy in chemistry and now to me and genetic aspects and appeal genetic said: there's a lot, but it is another piece of the puzzle. It gets us closer to answer sweet. I would get Erectus girl, tractor dairy fund,
nah. I think I'm gonna setting up what check
no, no. No. You just reminded me to make a women's issue. My therapist s are ok.
Well, I'm taking patients, so you can look me up on my no. I mean I mean
So I just really hope that we can get the day where everybody can look at the brain. Just like any other organ and when it's broken, we can look for ways to fix it and weakens work towards removing the stigma. I think is really important, and so I have to disagree with you about something
Ok, I just want to say that the universe
look really complicated. Until Isaac Newton came along and show that the movement of the planets previously given unto mysterious divine forces were explainable by just a couple of equations, and so is genius simplified that which was previously a managed imagined to be intractable e, complex, requiring divine knowledge of the universe, to even understand it.
So, dare I say Heather that, however complex you think the brain is. Maybe we are awaiting the birth of an Isaac, Newton Counterpart in neuroscience
who, rather than becomes stupefied by its complexity, becomes enlightened by its simplicity, and that is a cosmic perspective, but I've been your host Neil, the grass Thyssen, your personal astrophysicist. I want to thank Heather Berlin for being Onager chuck
you still host in plain sight, that's right, sir, playing with scientists hours spent, I support spin off. What do you know where you can find her being the guests? And I shall not get around you? Haven't around no loyalty was above rain injuries. Looking rain related with sports, we gotta have a person will be a lot box in man. It's allow, Mme all its other. Alright, we gotta go till next time. I bid you wish you can listen. The star talk commercial free.
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-19.