A big part of what makes our show special. Is you are listeners? That's why we like you, helped a plan for a future by filling out a short survey. The responses will help us understand whose listening, what kind of container audiences interested in how we can reach even more people, gotta carried out. slash serve it? That's cafe: dot com, slash survey, cafe and the Vocs media podcast network welcome to stay tuned, I'm prepared if the city it doesn't work way. We all dreamy can it'll probably be because it doesn't have sole or won't be diverse. You know it will be some homogeneous group and then just never really turns something that really super prouder. That's Mark lorry decent. Friend of mine is also a self describe cereal entrepreneur whose had massive

Sesar nearly every turn of his career, thriving and hyper the world of e commerce. Earlier this fall, he announced his biggest chain Gee at creating a new city from scratch, but he hopes set a global standard for urban living and become a blueprint for future generations. Lloyd me to discuss why he decided to embark on such an ambitious project, how he thinks about risk and why Excessive his new city, but he's named Tularosa, will only succeed with soul at its centre. That's coming up stay to we're all taught. A story has three parts, but life just isn't that linear, sometimes the middle is just the beginning more than this is a new podcast. From straight talk, wireless produced by vocs creative that examines the stories of the winding road that leads to life altering shift. Every Monday host Daniel Prescott, a fashion editor turned author.

The other side of her own more than this moment will introduce you to six people, the change their own lives by into the unexpected curves and the road listen to more than every Monday and check out the first of its kind, transcript experience at vocs dot com, slash more than this, the earth is spinning at approximately one thousand miles per hour. Sometimes it like the world is changing just as fast uncertainty, has become the new constant and with increased volatility, comes a host of new challenges, but Big challenges provide for an even greater opportunities on is in the business of helping clients, make better decisions, because opportunity comes from being prepared to learn. More subscribed on a on podcast, now streaming everywhere, and an dot com, that's AOL, dot com on the business of better decision making.

Let's get to your questions. This question comes in tweet from Gregg Burgess, who asks how long is it to go to a grand jury and make a decision for a case like steel bands and, of course, that something we ve been talking about for many weeks now stable. Was pardoned by president from former president from for his role in a fraud. actual with building a wall on the southern border is now crosshairs again, in my view, very legitimately, because he is openly defied subpoena from the general sixth panel of the Congress. The committee itself that panel itself voted unanimously to make a referral for criminal contempt of Congress of Steve Ban into the Justice Department and in the house The whole voted to refer him to the justice private as well. That was October, twenty first thirteen days You might have rejoiced vans and I discuss how quickly that could happen you is it could be any day, it's not a complicated case,

Why why transfers doesn't involve international information? Doesn't a whole host of communications. It's a simple matter of the Justice Department, notably the DC, was attorney America. Ireland, presumably will be heavily involved the bigger, whether not its fair and just to prosecute STI Bannon for a misdemeanor violation because he defied the subpoena without having any basis for doing so. I don't think requires This is, it doesn't require going through any massive kinds of documentary information. I think it's a simple call: they're, probably deliberating over it internally. there were a few precedents for this, but there was one back in the early eighties and it took about nine days from the time of the House of Representatives voted for referral for criminal contempt of com. To the time when they use attorney made the charge. So let me get up soon. This question comes in an email from Ellis who asks what Thought in the recent John Eastman revelations

Chinese meant, of course, is a figure who come into sharp relief. Over the last. The days and weeks outside lawyer for then present Donald Trump actively involved in the bin, the January sixth insurrection most famously a few weeks ago was reported, and we saw be of a memo. He wrote that outlined the steps to my pants than the vice president could take. to basically turn the election to down Trump, but not only the case that he wrote that memo which the way since then has alternately, distanced himself from and also embraced, which is a weird mix of reaction for him. But it's also come to light that, on the actual day of the insurrection after violence had occurred after the capital had been invaded, he had an exchange with an attorney from my pants and it's pretty shocking, while my pants, the sitting vice president, was actually being

and protected from a mob through the general sixth insurrection. There's an exchange back and forth between Johnny Spinning Gregg Jacob offence aid in which Jacob describes the siege that's happening at the capital at that moment. How does John he's been respond like this quote the seas which he puts him quote this Asia is because you capital, why? Oh you you and your boss, meaning my pants- did not do what was sorry to allow this to be aired in a public way, so that the american people can see for themselves. What happened end quote and then encourages him. even after the insurrection is under way to turn the election to Donald Trump sort of, I think, there's been talk, but the January six panel will subpoena Johnny's moving. That's an actual. Certainty. His testimony, I think, is vital to figuring out the advice you gave Donald Trump device. A came back from down trouble instructions. He gave what direction

He gave was a mental state of the former President ice dates and how close we came to having an election overturned, it's cool for understanding of who should be held accountable, is crucial to our understanding of what happened that day and also, as will be important in these debates in court. crucial to understanding what laws need to be changed. What laws need to be passed with John is becoming testify. I don't know, maybe he will find himself in the same position as to ban it. Now usually answer questions during this portion of the show from regular people, but this I got a question from someone you may know it's my friend and frequent stay tuned guest in Bremmer. He's been state so much that I sometimes refer to him. As my This film and that's a reference to how many times reduced filled in on David Letterman show any in Burma, uniform, asks a very, very important, substantive question. There really goes to the heart of our democracy and its this. What

Your new favorite Massachusetts, origin, prohibition era, cocktail, in Bremmer, though, is on a lawyer understands the principal, never ask a question that you don't know the answer to the reason is asking. The question is a couple weeks ago now for a drink of nice place, offer medicines were park in Manhattan and he at the boring, drink choice that I made and suggested I try what he had when I liked it very much so, if you're looking for new cocktail, take it from me in Bremmer, what you want to try something called a ward eight which, according to liquid outcome, is a turn of the twentieth century concoction, one of Boston, major contributions to craft cocktails, it was created at the Lock Ober CAFE in boss. the eighth ward, the ingredients in case you curious two answers right. Whisky, half ounce, lemon juice have found orange juice two teaspoons of grenadine and garnish with two or three spiritual

Of course, I kept forgetting the name of the cocktail and kept referring to it as district nine instead of ward. Eight does not, of course, is not a cocktail. It's the two thousand nine cipher. Thank you mean Bremmer for asking such an event question, stay tuned, there's more coming up after this, if you want an e commerce business, this add my change. Everything for you and that's not something. I say all the time. Ok, but if you ve ever scrolled fully through incredible marketing emails and texts from major brands and wondered quietly allowed what sort of magic dusted, these guys sprinkling over their communications. I'm even in a major secret? They probably use Clavijo Clavijo too The mystery out of email and sms marketing, offering all you marketers entrepreneurs and creators out there,

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variance with com, can do for your company not every day that someone comes along with the smarts and determination to build a new city, but that's what aunt mark lorry has set out to do with his latest Don't shut centre that will test the novel model for society. Implementing in short of what he intends as a reformed version of capitalist. mark lorry. Welcome to the show, thanks pretty great, to be here so. I have to begin this interview a little bit differently from how I do other interviews and had his two to make sure we put on the table a few things: We went to the same k through twelve private school in that involves New Jersey, the rainy school I've known you? I was trying to figure out how many years is it forty one and forty

Think I think forty eight to be here. I think it's for exactly forty years we ve been friends for forty years. You ve you been my brother's best friend since, like childhood forty years and started historic. We're gonna talk about some of this background before we get to the big project that you're undertaking my brother started a number of businesses together, including diapers dot com? you will have been an investor in cafe, so we have a lot of entanglements It's for a long time and I've. I've watched your growth and success with a lot of pride, my friend, so it's it's a pleasure to have you on. I have as well. Did you want that? We went to this weird high school, which is, which is very, very good. two no offence to the people who are going there now, but it was all but of a throwback. You didn't love. Highschool did you. I did not know I didn't love school. To be honest, why is that because you know as well as will discover

if you only have more this conversation about you clear human computer. So you didn't even like math sure like math, but not I just didn't like. there's too many rules and guard- or you know your name be creative and think about, in exhalations, you had a show your work, even if you found a new way to do and solve a problem, it didn't count or matter like guy. I didn't. I didn't, enjoy a very frustrating you're a bit of a job right I was I was. I did, love sports urine track right. I did. I did started the track. Team is America. You started the dragged him. There was no tracked him there. The Panthers. When will you ve been described? Which, I think is accurate cereal entrepreneurs, unfair Jeff, I hear you start a company when my brother, after being finance for wild, called the pit that that you sold to tops

and then, as I was told, the story, because it's interesting to people You then started something with my brother a number of years ago called one eight hundred diapers, which was a play. What was it one hundred flowers near where were you before the internet. You would call number you flowers lived. There was also one also hundred mattress exactly yet one end contacts. One hundred contact one hundred whatever Love telling the story, because not that well known, About how, when I was your attorney veni, call me up my brother and his. strange, new company was to sell diapers it and I will say to the crowd. So imagine how my parents felt when, my brother and his include- you went overnight from being the General Council of a publicly traded company, tops

to selling diapers on the internet under Logan- and this is true, We're number one in number, two and had always brings the house down. People laugh and I say yeah- that's that's that's right! You're laughing my brother, laughed too, when he saw, company to Amazon for five or ten forty, five million dollars? How the hell did not happen. what's funny just funny story to like when I to Mount Lakes, New Jersey with my family, the time back in This is two thousand and six and- neighbor tells a story about the first time he met me days. Zella. It's great welcome the neighbourhood out. What do you do, and I said the type of business I felt so diapers over the internet,

and he said that ninety went back and told his wife. Don't don't it to friendly with them out the glue beer that law because it sound it sounds crazy. It sounds and then you quickly went from one end of the day Cyprus that combat obviously for people we're not in no, it was a a play for a population of consumers in the country, moms people young, who you thought you could sell stuff too. So you ended up starting an animal, the website operating under the company Quincy can tell us about what The other ones were, then how it got successful. I guess. Basically, we started Nobody was signed diapers over the internet, even though their bulky, you don't really like going to the store to pick him up and make them home and host, commodity, I need to see it or touch it feel it to tuna. You're getting and so seem perfect to the internet, but we told people about this idea, especially people in and the actual market for diapers

they said this never gonna work because there are lost leader for brick and mortar companies like bomb art and target, and now you have to pay for sure being just not and be economical. And I think we thought the time is. Thesis was well more authority is in these products as loss leaders, not making any money on there's a reason, because they drive traffic to the store to sell everything else and we thought well online, selling. Everything else is a lot more than what you could sell in the store. So there's a lot more margin, so we they read, We should build a solid Debbie's for even a bigger loss. Leader I'll lose even more money because we could sell more products to people if we were able to build that relationship and that was the original thesis going in turn prove your proved to be correct. We did incredible relationships with with busy parents and we were able to sell them. Everything else is needed for their baby, including events.

we things they need for their pets. We asked a site called wag dot com. We launched a website called dot com which was basically on my drugstore yo YO, a com which is an online toy store, and we basically were in ten different vertical clean parents stuff in every category, consider com was a homesite, and so does the strategy was proving out, but there than we sold Amazon. Twenty, as you know, when I tell people this people in retrospect how can I wish I had thought of that as if it was about the idea alone and not about the executions at your team, when people say stuff like that: yeah yeah. I know as if you would have build from scratch exactly lot. Alot of people had the idea, a half billion dollar coming simply by having the idea of Cyprus on the internet right, it was definitely wasn't about the their and often tell people it really is never the idea, I think any idea could really work

turning to a meaningful business, if it's too big enough market and are there about the execution and was about more than execution was really about risk. Taking so many- and I are we had to be Secondly, we weren't able to buy diaper direct from Proctor Gamble and Kimberly Clark, because you didn't have a relationship with the manufacturers. You had to buy them from like a store like beeches, yet the whole, Al Qaeda were or cost. Colleagues that I went once at you, this violent with my dad. I remember this year and he had more credit at the time. I did and politically goes into the beeches some years ago, anybody Eighty three thousand dollars worth of diapers for your website to rearmament. the woman who was working at the time and took the order that designate Can I get you a hot dog or something that is. I know I'm I'm good. Thank you present member. He was reading through the videos. Does there when he was reading

in through the receipt of the current term, for this accessary Alice cracking up every time. How do you think about risk when you enter a new market or think of a new enterprise? Had I think about it? Yeah look as it does irrelevant to talking about the city. Yet really think about We think about. if you define risk a sort of probability success, I dont really about that in isolation like I think many people do certainly a big companies its that's exactly the way to think about in why its stance taken by swings because, as something has a low Palais success, they merely right it off. I think entrepreneurs manoeuvres in this which a entrepreneurs everyone else is when you see low probability of success. You don't necessarily right off. You ask, how big the upside of it does work and if the upside is outside relative probability, dance the shot were taking. So if

have a twenty percent chance of something working much people would say you know what I dont want to fail. Eighty four the time- no thank you, but better. They wait. Twenty, intensive waidelich. What's the upside? Oh, it's a thousand acts that I'll do because if that doesn't work, I find another opportunity as a twenty percent chance. Success with a thousand exit eventually get hit. One of these things now, maybe not maybe Maybe I never had the twenty percent, but that's entrepreneurship. Is you see that and you go for it and you put everything you ve got into something that is most likely not gonna work, give it the best chance. you can buy in working hard and putting everything you possibly can into it, but doesn't mean, is gonna work, so he started divers dot come there was a success.

You're, Bob Amazon. You worked there for a while, then you left, then you started another even more improbable thing: a direct competitive website to Amazon CO jet agenda, which was also very successful. Would you sold to Walmart for three? three billion dollars at the beginning of either those enterprises? Would you think the likelihood of success was? Was a twenty percent lower higher? I think I mean you when you are not very you don't think now it not working. You go all in and huge active like operate under some she's gonna work. But if you looked at the objective probability of working and just were an odds maker, I think you're probably have to say: diapers was twenty percent in jet with probably not much more either it we could say access to capital. At jet we had more access to capital. So

Maybe it was thirty or so likely was higher than no. When you have a track record of success does not become easier for people to believe in you and free to believe in yourself, I think it does. I talk about this framework that operate, buys not feel called v c p vision, capital people and I think you need all three ingredients and if you get em right, magical things happen and when you have a successful start up behind you, the sea and pay capital and people- you have an advantage, so oh certainly had an advantage raising capital after success with thy Bristol COM and equally with people. People, like you, said, believe in a new Europe would have to go out and higher the very best talent and that they have yet the best people and have capital, and you have a really big, clear vision. You have a good chance,

things are worked out better by one more improbable thing. It's one of my favorite stories before we talk about your city project and I think you will find it hard to believe you at one point qualified for the National Bob's. Let team. How the hell did that happen. You're you're you're working in the World trade center some years ago before him becoming a serial entrepreneur, my memory, is because remember, hearing met at the time you in your business suit, you're walking out to get lunch or something, and what do you see Yes, so the? U S Olympic Bob sled team going city, the city spending a weakened each city, trying to raise awareness, fer you S, Bob sled raise money and they had set up a track down at the world. Financial centre and basically just saying hey Remembered- was ten bucks. Twenty dollars, whatever

and push this lad in no time you. It was just for fun if they were there for a week and as one of the carrot they are. said. If you had the fastest time during the week, will invite you up like placid, and you can take this other too. just to see if you could actually qualified a train out there and learn how to be a Bob's letter so I am I saw there. You have you ever Bob sorted before nine Bob said I was, I ran, track call income, age, so you're in your business suit your living. The building, you see the Bob's led track and you said yourself the hell I'll give it a shot, suffer yeah took my jacket and tie off. They had sneakers gazelles one of the gems I went back up. My sneakers came back. I had basically still pants in it and a shirt and sneakers on an da yeah proceeded to to push the slide down the track, and I remember

them thinking. It was fast time. O is impressive to them. Whatever ass a girl s gonna find those coolly think if they think it was the first time and they like I don't know a week later. I get a call this so and from the? U S National Bob's team. We just wanted to tell you that tat you would fact had the fastest time during the week, and we did say that you'd get an invite, sir we're inviting you to lay placid. and they said you could come up too late, ass it and take this task and if you when pass the test you need to stay. Here for a month to learn how to Bob sled, and then you would the time trials to see if you make the US national team and so on a month off from work. That's credit so That's so insane you took a month, often how'd. You do yes up there, and then they had this test. It was like speed, jumping strand all these tasks and yet a score over seven hundred points tubes,

therefore the month and I dont, maybe like thirty people passed I was one of them and I stood up there for a month lived up there, late, placid, basically change every and at the end of the month there was the time trials and you finish in the top thirteen to make the? U S national team- and I was like thirtieth or something like that- twas the bottom up until the the testing metrics, I just assume I was going to be in the top thirteen, but it gave it a shot and finish. Thirteen. And so now they said I was, Welcome to the Us National Bob said team and we're gonna be travel around the world and in Germany would go in here and there in two years is the Olympics in, like I remembered the times like my from my eyes just go it's it. Have you heard the latest with Mark like ok, so then finish the story, Threeg argotiers.

God knows it and then says that's it. I had to make a decision. I wanna travel over the world for two years before the Olympics or and quit my job or I was you know, couple years into my career, and I decided I wasn't gonna quit fatigue To do it, and I stuck with banking- and that was the whole story- was eighty six debts is discontinued. Yet it's crazy creature, you on a lark. You take off your tie and jacket that lead you down a path where you actually qualify. Actual Bob's team. You have a shot at being in the Olympics represent- Nice is american, the Olympics, and having done all that, you, like they're, gonna, stick with banking Seems silly now, but I have no regrets so you and I have spent a lot of time over the last four and a half five years. Talking about this. I do you have that some people think is terrific. Some people think is outlandish yourself have said, even though

the likelihood of successes we have a baseline of twenty percent that you think make something worthwhile to try if its bold and aggressive and potentially world changing talk about the city that you have imagined to. My first question is given the resources and means you have and what you care about society and urban life. Why not put that one of those resources. To bear on actual cities. You live on in Manhattan in New York City, the best in the world in my mind, and I think you enjoy it won an advocate for improvements in reforms and existing cities. Rather than undertake something so massive and difficult by creating a new city, what's goin on their yeah, they first of all, I think the best way, impact. Existing cities is to show how it could be done, and I think, doing it with a clean slate from scratch,

ouch enables you to do things that exist in cities. Wouldn't you where possible and if you proposed it. Existing city. They be hard pressed to do it because the investments they ve already made in the existing infrastructure and the ways of of operating that it too much of a risk, but if you saw it working and the benefits it be able to do that, cost benefit analysis, and I think more likely to do it, and so not impacting one city, but impacting all cities and without that's one thing, the other thing is that this is me more than just. Building a city is really sort proving a new model for society, a new economic model, so I think you know like, like many of us, will just really frustrated with how divided this countries become and how

perplexed. It is to see, despite all the material progress we've made in this country, why? They're still so many people just barely getting by and one of the things that occurred to me was, you know, I think I think capitalism is. Is it a great economic model but is certainly has its flaws and there were flaws that have been exposed overtime. The best example is really. Monopolies please don't work in a capitalistic MC system and as an internal, and I trust, laws that really do workers protected from that. And if you go back in time when the warrant antitrust laws, workers were and rights were, were abused and that needed that, need be plugged. I think after doing research in reading about the current system and why it still flawed. I came across this book called progress in poverty. By

economists call Henry George back in the late nineteenth century, who proved to economic theory, and I believe it that the real problem is that land ownership is essentially monopoly, that's not regulated anyone in any way. So there's a finite, a meadow land and a few own appeal of land? You basically However so microbe monopoly, and and can charge and profit in a way that will always make it the case that there's a class of people barely willing to to work, and he proves it and economic theory and item get in at it, but by deftly bought into it, and then got me thinking down this path of will what if things were different way the land wasn't just new given to people that put a stake in again and said this is there. This is my hundred and sixty acres and that land was with then never

to be claimed again by anyone else, because there is a finite amount of it. I said what he started from scratch and land that was worthless and you the land bought by. Rather, give it away to individuals. It was and two or bought by a community foundation whose sole mission was to help create the city over land so that the land would appreciate to such an extent that the land- we're, very valuable and the end Foundation would sell the land and crew. an endowment and then endowment would be used to provide advanced social services like health care, education, jobs, training for women to such a degree that you would need a tax base in your theory or to supplement the tax base to supplement taxpayers you wouldn't certainly need to increase taxes to have amazing social services. So you'd have equal opportune did you education, healthcare, housing, job training like

without having to increase tax. so it's the best of both worlds. There Carmack an urban, sovereign wealth funds, it basically is basically is, and the wealth is created through rapid appreciation of land that happens when many deformed and tax dollars were invested in infrastructure, so it stands to reason that the people that created the communities that who's that their tax dollars acid in bridges and rose in tunnels and things that all the initiation alarm land caused by that come back to the citizens that that made it so and its it. Sir it's not socialism or anything like that, the land is bought, fair and square by. community foundation wets worthless and then, when it's worth something The foundation sells it off. So there there's nothing: it's not Government owned sort of thing: It literally, is like

you can imagine a small scale, a group of people, green that we're going to create value in the land that we are predicated around and when we, that value all share in it that's essentially what what would happen if a committee foundation bought desert then in a desert and helped bring a city of finally people there is. There is a catch twenty two there in the sense that, because it's you and if people thought well, there's gonna be a lot of value in this. In this land going forward, because we believe in the enterprise something's not more than twenty percent. with with the sellers of the land, because you have to buy land from someone. So let's say you found a patch of land and in Nevada, is our concern on your hand, on your part as a pragmatic and practical matter, that a seller of that land would raise the price higher up, because they think you'll succeed and will be a lot of value. Later

I think that is definitely concern. There is a Lima downplay, the prospects for success for the initial land purchase or down play who's buying the land, like you know, I think Disney did that successfully time. Think people do that all the time will buy by land buy up land at without discussion. in the buyer, so that yeah doesn't increase devalue before the lamp acquired, so that one practical there are people supply because this is this idea has been Germany for a long time with you. We ve been talking about it for five years, just to stem informally. The idea was on the cover of lumber business Week magazine a few weeks ago. Are people surprised when they learn that the idea was born in your head to address

inequality that we're too people depends on. How is everyone has a different opinion? I think, but I've really yet to run into any one that has this objecting to the to the idea that we'd be able to offer these incredible benefit. to the to the citizens without increasing taxes, I think I think the prince Thinking is, if you want to have the World Bank social services you need. For it somehow, and that is going to be from from increasing taxes and that's where there's a divide, I think, if we find a solution where we could not have done these taxes at all amazing social services, most people are bought into it. The other thing that is a real focus here is to like many other cities being built. They feel more like real estate projects, where a p

Lauren at the centre or their technology. Sort of showcases in our global tried to do worse is happening now I did this country, but the idea that if we focus on people put people at the centre and start with this set of values, we have three values: open, fair, inclusive. We want to be the most open, the most fair, the most inclusive city in the world, and that's what that's what rises? mission is to create a more equitable and sustainable future. So yeah we wanted to be more equitable through this idea that that I just said, but also one to be the most sustainable city in the world, and there are a lot of things that we ve learned over time that we could apply now that could make is more sustainable city will be one hundred percent renewable energy, for example, so

so all the all these things sound great, but one of them, the threads of conversation you and I've had an all you care about is when you plan a city, they can become antiseptic And you were that it becomes. You know, a city of materials that have a lotta gadgets and high tech, but it doesnt have sole here, the charm or grit, and you you said it again, a quote from you. You have set about this project quote: how does a city have a soul? It's not about buildings and road, it's about the values and the city standing for something we don't know what that is yet, but we want to find out end quote a few billion earmarked lorry and other folks planet and think about every detail of the city centre as an initial matter and think about all this.

Annabelle things you're gonna do housing, transportation, museum schools and everything else will get us some of those. Have you build a city that has vibrancy and a soul if its pre planned. I think it has to be a what we think about this a lot and if the city, it work the way we all Jamie can it'll, probably be because it doesn't have sole end. So that's how this year, a really important or a word, won't be diverse. You know it will be some homogeneous group that you know goes out their first in and then just never really turns into something that will really super proud of. So I think on the ceiling of the city, and this is controversial in its own right. You know trying to get the first. Fifty thousand people that move there to be as diverse group is possible across Roy religion, profession, income level, to give it

ass chance of organically growing. From that point forward, I get that right began so how'd you prevented from being in a very homogeneous announced this first fifty thousand people. Unfortunately the only ways solution. We come up with him somebody has a better solution. We're open to it would be to sort of do it increased. like a university class where you'd litter, have applications, and you do you build a class of citizens that represent the first fifty thousand and try to do it in the most diverse way possible to give it the best possible chance of organically grown cuz. It. Wouldn't the first first fifty thousand, you can't continue days on a private citizen, open public city, so you have one shot two so to do this and I think it's important we get the right. People in the room Helping to ensure that that first, fifty thousand is diverse and also that the type of people that are encouraging organic growth from their end

the building of the city itself we can have we, one single architect, for example, it needs to be a middle, be a master plan are but will need to engage the best and brightest mines and creative minds to think about the different parts of the city in and making sure that there is creative diversities. Well though, the worst would be. The city is- is very much a very similar like locked throughout it that I think that that would be missing saw if it wasn't organic legal. on our intention is to bring in the beginning. I sort of a destination is to potentially talking about this man

keen music and entertainment survey a focal centerpiece to bring creative minds and creative talent into the city early, because I do think it will take in a creative people to expand the city in ways that give it so and vibrancy, but there are things that we can do all snow. We ve learned, you know with nature, doubt and fear that into the city to make it walk a ball bike. Able to have the ability of people to work live play all within sight of a five minute. Walk we'll be cars in the city. so the way we're thinking about it now because of the benefits of going fully autonomous in terms of vehicles. We're probably had down that route where there won't be any non autonomous Theo. is the in the in the sun the city.

autonomous which would allow have narrow roads, fewer roads, no street lights and street signs to be a lot safer. So lots of advantages it be, although the vehicles would be electric, so it would be better for the environment as well, but the safety is a big thing: it's more efficient and you have fewer roads and fewer cars so that's something that is very possible today. Only reason why a times vehicles aren't more mainstream is because combined an autonomous vehicles with your normal cars just doesn't work it's it's did. The complexities are since just incredible, challenging difficult we'll be right. Back with more of my conversation with mark lorry after this accords

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So I know from our discussions the tularosa and also for my study of political philosophy in college comes from Aristotle's term Telos, which means purpose or end or where the highs purpose. My question to you is: have you thought about in the last week changing the name too many men Yeah, it's it's funny that there will be a this, a lot likely sort of mega verse of of Tularosa? That's bill, simultaneously. This is new yeah. This is it me break The news you're here right here folks for the first time it is new and we ve got this feedback in a very open feedback, and we ve got this feedback from quite a number of people, so were now exploring that, but with less people think this is some grand hypothetical. Now, instead the amazing millions of challenges that you would face in succeeding on this.

Your years into this project. You have spent millions, dollars of your own money? In my right, that's correct, yeah! You have actually engaged a chief architect. He could you tell us about what concrete things have happened. Airwave engage the architect from big, be our k is the the founder in, and yet we ve been working with them for quite some time now to develop the master. Land, and we ve got her on the on the two US website, city of pellucidar com. You can see imagery, we ve a lot more imagery, that's not up there. Yet that should be coming up soon, but yeah what we spend a lot of time, thinking about the lay out of the city, then a lot of time, thinking about water and water rights about how do you make the city a hundred percent renewable energy what solar and wind, what we need, and where would we ideally be located to better pull that off with looked into EL autonomous vehicles, a veto essentially, passion,

drones and how they would play into the city vertical farming in lots of different areas and there's so much more than to unpack, but we ve got experts in teams and lots of areas. Looking at these different problems, So where's people keep asking me first, where's are gonna, be, and you don't know that yet yeah, we don't know that yeah. I think that two thousand and twenty two. That's really the plan is to build out some of what we're calling the Junto group for the Board of governors were experts in each area come together to help answer a lot of these really tough questions and same time talking to Governor's a meeting with stage try to figure out where the best location

one where words doable and where we can get the land. So one is getting the land to is ok, have the land, but can you build a city of five million people in and there what's the tight? What's the timeframe over which you expect the city to grow, that big, so two thousand were targeting two thousand thirty is when the first fifty thousand people move in so you'd have the central core of the city built out enough tat to house fifty thousand people in work and have a high quality of life, and then we grow they over the next decade from fifty two million and then from a million to five million over the following decades has really like a thirty years from today,

a city of five million people. That's, I think, the most realistic goal at this point. This had been tried before their lot of instances- and you know talked about this also and was interesting as you, you think, of these kinds of plant cities being a feature of authoritarian governments and tried in China and the often fails. What what's the reason for the failure of other projects to build cities from scratch?. I dont think from our research him what was looked at their really starting with people at the centre and focused on how to offer people a higher quality of life, education, jobs and you know a place where you feel like it. One of raise a family.

I got, I think, a lot of those cities that are planning built, there's deftly lacking a soul. There's not is much sought. The kind of place that you'd be excited to raise a family there's just a lot of skyscraper type buildings, lotta, tick, ology lotta cement. The wayward designing this is, it's gonna feel great, like this can have a really good feeling when you come to Tularosa the amount, the amount of how natures, how it infused everything in everything and be won't be skyscrapers of the buildings will be with few exceptions, will be capped d, be a major focus on on culture, arts, entertainment, restaurants, things all the things that make things at you about the city you live in, and we're gonna put a major focus on that early and then and then a thing is is not a times. Is a chicken and egg thing with with people

not wanting to go there could other people aren't there and people do go there. A certain kind of people that doesn't resonates I'd do that was my worry is, could be a self screened group of a certain kind which can work against diversity. Nine. This is why, basically nobody, moves in and told the fifty thousand people have been selected and that the people are applying selected. Ok, here's the fifty thousand people now these fifty thousand people, just like you know, opening in our day at university, thousand people move in over the course of a six week period, so nobody's there and six weeks later, fifty thousand people are there and people will then in waves, and they want it would help you gonna work yeah, I guess. Maybe now I can work and zoom yet nobody there. That's it! That's another whole part thinking a lot of their original people will be

entrepreneurs that aspire to build tech companies that could be locate anywhere and that's it very, very white and mail. It doesn't have to be now. I mean it wouldn't be. the first. Fifty thousand people are going to be diverse, ass, race, religion, income level, they'll, be doctors, Toby, teacher, they'll, be lawyers, they'll, be construction workers, they'll, be people running operating rushed on small business city, workers like it'll be a day one. Fifty thousand people will have to have jobs across every sector that matters in a city So, and do we know fifty thousand by the way the right number could it be? Thirty thousand a hundred thousand, we sort of think back in the envelope of fifty riper whatever it takes to. Basically that diversity out of the gate and to cover all the professions that are needed to manage and run a fully functioning vibrant city.

Even if a small me is the biggest issue, the people raise how you seed the city in the first pillar, because it's gonna be human beings. Secondly, the Mai algorithm, presumably right yet human beings, human beings and human beings have biases no explicit an implicit they'll have to be the divert the diversity of the team. It actually does selection- is probably more important than even the people that is selected so we're engaging with some of the best and diversity inclusion mines in the world to help us think through this problem about who should be the team of people there. Should go through the selection process to try and make sure it is fair and inclusive again. our values are a fair, open and inclusive, and we we need to let those guys in a way that,

no, the sea, the wall does or who has lived, retirement education, cassettes, a very important part of of any community has education can be financed again. It would be not not property taxes, no one will be Betty taxes that would fund education up to the point that it is funded today. But then Can I can I pushed back, never yeah. You know, I think I think a lot There has been a dirty. It's very odd thing to fund public education to property taxes, because some people own land, some people don't own land, as is the problem that, at the base of your your strategy here. and it works, certain kinds of unfairness is out totally agree search IP. Let me just images expenses. I wasn't clear when I said property. Taxes- I didn't mean I agree with your hundred percent. It would it mean local property taxes, fun local school. So, if you're in lakes, New Jersey to the property taxes of the mountain lakes? Homeowners, fine the mouth like school system, that

not that is not fair at all either people who don't live in houses and even if you dont have children, so it works in both directions. Yes, based on your ownership of land, you pay or don't pay for local education. So how would tell us also be different so these are things that still need to be worked through that at the highest level, though, the taxes that you currently pay likely the lady. If you live in any city, you pay taxes, Those taxes offer publication education system. That system we know is lacking, is flawed in and in many respects, because there is not enough financing to to bring in the very best teachers so into low. So because we have this an endowment that would would have at the end of the day fifty billion dollars a spend, a big chunk of fifty billion. We go in education that would supplement the edge

asian system, as we know it today, to be able to have much better teachers and much better facilities like it. What it would be a much better education system and everyone, into Llosa would have equal access to that system. It wouldn't be different in different parts: wealthier ports to Lhasa, less wealthy, I wouldn't have a different education system. Where would you would you and private schools when somebody's. What is a moment two thousand and entrepreneur there said I want to start a private school. That's ok right thinks a great question. I think having just thinking about it now that that this a great question till I put out to the to the group of the agenda group to talk I don't see any reason why he you'd we're trying to be open and an unfair. So if somebody had an idea tat to do and wanted to create a private school because they felt that the public system was,

seen in this public system, we think would be incredible, given the amount of resources, but certainly somebody wanted to build a school. I don't see it this? Why I'm saying that without having discuss that with the broader diverse team, I think with all these questions pre, it takes many discussion, two to make sure that you not making a decision One way that has unintentional consequences and in another way, so without that loud, be made. Many jerk reaction would be sure, truly hard, every two everytime, I think about it. Every time we talk about his eye, I get my mind spins, how complicated offices with with the city have a mayor like most cities, yet it would be run just like any any city, if you think about it, it is it's just like New York City tomorrow, a community endowment foundation popped up. that had fifty billion dollars you spend to improve

the lives of the citizens that live there. Then that foundation. But have worked with the government's hey. I've got fifty billion to donate this year. We To donate in and make educate system better. We like to improve the hospitals, we like to mimic how you more fordable we wouldn't, whereas the fifty billion come from again the oppressed. nation of the land, the way we ve calculated, it would be worth about a trillion dollars when sold, So if you sell the land four trillion dollars, you create a trillion dollar endowment Tularosa Endowment Fund and that fund would die be invested in a diversified acid pitfalls. That generates five percent a year, which is fifty billion. Similar way university endowment generates cash every year to to put back into the university, but so when the economy crashes, because it happened from time to time, does tularosa suffer disproportionately because of its reliance on

doesn't now, because the just second it like a university endowment of something the expected returns. The way. It was invested in and would be, investing in very deed. sway might be so percent a year, but you'd only spend five percent share of the sort of a two percent cushion that two percent kind of stays there and grows each year for a rainy day when the returns are negative. Seven percent- and you ve got the two percent cheer that you over five that you saved up to cover it's like balances out? That's that's basically, the way you know any endowment works at university in Dallas. Who would have the same issue? You have to make sure it's a diverse investment portfolio and

you you won't have assets it on correlated, so some go down in a really bad situation. Others do well in a bad situation about economy, for example. So yeah, that's that's part of the investment management piece of it. I think I know the answer this on my municipal government. Do you commit to the city having nonpartisan elections? Do you mean Yeah. Do you mean for the community foundation? No, I mean for the mayor of the city with theirs It is like New York City. There is the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, in a variety of other parties as well, but some places its non parson election. It's not you don't run on a party line, it's just we did run and where we get the most votes becomes. The leader of the city of you given thought how that should be conducted. We haven't at all I mean that's, that's an area that we have already talked about at all. I mean, I'm an advocate for an for none

whereas in elections and rank choice voting. So when you, when you meet, if he were here, many to talk about those, I think even the poorest in politics in urban areas, where so much is about just competence and execution and cleaning the snow in getting the buses to operate in. All that should be not illogical. Non partisan I commend that thought to you. Yeah. I'm makes a lot of sense to me. What what's the aren't? You gonna make two governors of states and state legislatures as to why they want to be helpful and facilitate the establishment of a new city in their state. I think, because if this works the way we think he can could set a new a new model for society that we can make up America better, There's so much all the cities that we already have can learn from, and even if this didn't work, it still be attend to learn. I'm certain.

Best case scenario: theirs incredible amount of pride for the state to say that that the city is a city where it says new standard for urban living. For in a higher quality of life. More sense Annabelle more equitable. I think it's just a source of pride and what would go down in history as as being a gallop, a place for people, cities countries to learn from, does an incredible amount of pride. I would think to have that be happened at the time that governor is in the air is a governor. I mean our. I certainly would want that to happen at my watch if our fire there because if it doesn't work, is still so much to learn at. I don't think, there's really a scenario with this not good for America long term, I think there to be more people too.

Taking shots innovating taking risk in China make the country better, with lightning rounds and I gotta go. Favorite city other than to Lhasa. out of the country and said inside the country. I have to say, New York City law was an easy one what's more so you recently bought or are going to have majority stake in the professional basketball team. The minutes of the timber wolves. What is more, in successive tularosa or the timber, was having a successful season. The look and good sense to never get young team am excited about that. The season in the future for sure hemming, airily, beget, I don't understand how you do all these enterprises in twenty four hours I actually sleep pretty well do a lot of thinking, I'm sleeping some multitasking banal, you're sleeping I wake up with ideas all the time

I got a good eight hours every night you do it simple to get eight hours, because it allows you to go nonstop for sixteen hours every day. I think that's the if you yeah get five hours and then you ve got a guess, the three hours but you're, just not nearly as effective, so I have always found like better to get get a fully hours and in just go nonstop for sixteen. I didn't know that if I assume you slept three hours and more glory my friend of forty plus years. Congratulations earlier success. I wish you well with this new project that a very challenging and how to keep talking about it. Excellent thanks for it so what I want to show this week too high an email we got a few days ago from an avid listener. As you know, this past Tuesday was election day

It wasn't a presidential election or even the midterm election but there were a lot of important local leaders on the ballot and I was glad to see so many people at the pole in my home state. I voted. I hope you voted to. I know for a lot of folks people in Virginia perhaps in New Jersey, that race has been called yet the governors race. It was a great day and mine and suffer county, the eight also lost his race We want to tell you more about this email turn out as important in an election and it's hard for people when we don't have the day off. People have work and school and movements. That's why LISA K Solomon, who wrote the email. Educator and designer and residence at Stanford University rode into tells about the hashtag? All vote no play initiative. She wrote to us Quote- we don't get a lot of good news stories these days, so I want to something very special. That's quietly taking place across college campuses, this election day called hashtag all vote no play day.

In some ways. Although no play is a mixture of your recent epoch with. Can burns Talkin this new Mohammed Ali documentary. Your conversation I been Thinkin Robin and trying and the negative scenario. The Doktor Fiona Hill was talking about in your most recent episode will, first of all, he said your clearly paying attention to the show. Thanks for tuning in every week, she wrote further vote, although no play is the brainchild of former Stanford basketball player and coach Eric Ravine, oh, who twenty socialize. The idea that election day should be a day off from practice and play, and a day on for civic engagement over one thousand. One hundred coaches signed a petition for two thousand and twenty, and it was so popular Yea created legislation to make it an annual mandate. End quote means that every year, an election day, students will turn their focus to their communities and work towards becoming more engaged and passionate citizens. That's pretty fuckin cool,

You told us about the coaches dedicated to engaging their students and civic education and in many cases, the students inspired to take the lead like sophomore, Rhine, Belk, tight end for the Yale Bulldogs he hosted bulldog ballot, Breakfast LISA Road, where his team, It will want citizen university seo Eric lose brilliant TED talk on the joy of voting. How the votes giving to talk about the personal side of voting It is also a survivor of the mark stolen, Douglas School shooting and is trying to ignite and amplify the voices of the next generation, though it's incredible to see by partisan initiatives like this game lament an attention in this country, civic engagement, something I carry deeply about, and I hope you do too and hopefully that's one of the reasons you listen to the show. Our democracy depends on it. To check out their mission in work and although no play dot org there. You can find guy and resources for what they call civic drills. Whether you have ten minutes for three hours to spend on civic education, you can make it count

I will host a vote to giving to talk about the personal side of voting. So I want to thank you, Kay Solomon for sharing this great initiative with us, so that I could share with all of you If you have any stories of inspiration that you'd like to share, I love to hear them to us it letters at CAFE Dotcom, that's letters at CAFE: dot com, that's it for this episode of stay tuned. Thanks again to my guest mark Laurie If you What we do. And Review, the show an apple pie casts or wherever you listen. Every positive review helps new listeners find the show Some of your questions about news, politics and justice tweet them to me. I pray Pereira with the hashtag aspirin

or you can call and leave me a message at six hundred and sixty nine, two hundred and forty seven, seven thousand three hundred and thirty, eight that's six thousand six hundred and ninety two for Crete or you can send an email to letters, a cafe dot com, NATO is presented by CAFE and the Vocs media podcast network executive producer is tomorrow, supper. The technical director was David

sure, the senior producers or Adam Waller and Matthew Billy, and the cafe team is David, curl andor, samples, restated, Noah, oscillate, not wiener, Jake Kaplan, Chris Boil and Sean Walsh, Chelsea Simmons, an amateur shop or music is by Andrew Dust. I'm your host preparers stay tuned hi. It's me. Jesse data thoughts has a good want, a pot gas about jobs, and I am happy no thrill to tell you that folder Festival is back and I mean really backed his time. We're doing it fully live and in person and outside at the hybrid, Roosevelt and beautiful, ass angels, California, and of ever thirties and forty no faces and little box is a no

or silences after people tell yo unless there are bad job, just all of us, together in real life having a fun time. This year we have the case of Iraq and the sun were uniting and Henry went over teaching and acting class. I will be talking about air some minutes at Rogan about common, friendship and the holidays. And yes, for we require in vaccines just like the match, our in a way. This is just like the mapped out that you ve been dress more comfortably. An Israeli. Their way chosen is the right way to get your tickets before they sell out at Vulture Festival, dot, com.