Hey folks, another busy weak, a politically charged legal news. Making the headlines former debit general rod. Rosa Stein is in the news again this time for being a quote driving force. End quote: behind the Trump Administrations family separation policy. At the? U S Mexico border, meanwhile, important how many Amy Coney Berets confirmation hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee started this week and process it has brought terrorism and conspiracy charges against thirteen men for plotting kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whittemore end in sight? civil war and an eye Thus, all this and more on the cafe insider podcast today were sharing a clip from episode with listeners of stay tuned to hear our full conversation an access all other cafe insider content. putting the newly launched United Security in cyberspace. Podcast, try the membership free for two weeks. You can do Kathy dot com, slash inside that's, cafe, dot com, Slash insider college, with a valid d etre you email qualify for a discount had to cafe dot com, slash student,

and sign up at a lower rate again that Have they d come slashed student? We look forward to having part of the insider community. Speaking about faith. to talk about a couple of other things that unite had been chow. About in the last week, it's really the perfect Saguenay year so. So I really had been thinking about rod, Rothstein, the former deputy attorney general, who appointed by mothers special counsel and before that was he was attorney in Maryland, But the two things happened last week: birthing deserve some of our attention. One was his new times report the details. What looks to be in a draft of an inspector general report about child separations at the border. Remember that's up to you and I talked a lot about on the show and the lot of you.

you're about and so upset and argued so vociferously against these child separations that lasted for a long time that it was one of the few things on which the trumpet Ministration didn't about face. And one of the few things about which people sort of headed for the hills not wanting to have responsibility for this terrible terrible policy and the pretty nice and it has been in the minds of a lot of americans- that there was really the doing of the Department of Homeland Security and the bad guys in the culprits, receive pillar in the White House, don't drop in the White House and then people at the age ass and very quietly back, then I remember, reading and hearing that the inspector general at the Department of Justice was gonna, take an internal look and see what involvement and responsibility the Department of Justice Had- and we haven't seen it yet and subject to change- insist in your time report in its not gospel and released yet, but it paints a very ugly picture.

of how Jeff sessions at the top and Rob Rosen's going too We're really into this idea of childhood separations intentionally and deliberately for the purpose of deterring up migrants from coming over the border in raw was this time who has spent a career as Jim? Can we put it being a survivor in trying to straddle lie so you can be on one side of an issue or the other side of an issue or escape blame doing this tightrope walk is at the center of the story. What did you make of it? I mean I. I think this is a really important conversation and it's a really important story and- and I do want to give a little bit of credit to the New York Times, reporting that, because they did review and eighty six page draft report, the report cited interviews with more than forty five key officials and then the times also went out and talk to three government officials who had read it. So I think it's it's not speculation. I think people should know the times's working off a draft.

it says in there and you remember that at the heart of the policy was this idea that, if used, if you prosecute the pair, The two are unlawfully crossing into United States and you separate them from their kids that this would be a deterrent to stop people from coming and again it is sort of on its face, just the cruellest, most most awful policy, in my view, to sort of intentionally try to target kids as a way to teach a lesson to their parents and what what this makes clear is that it is led by Jeff sessions in many ways, because the normal Access is that people come into contact with immigration authorities, and you know immigration generally. Has the authority to send them back. The people have the authority to bring a case to bring the prosecution which would lead to the separation is United States Department of Justice, so the article make says that Jeff Sessions, who was then the attorney general, made it clear that Mr Trump basically wanted this.

Policy. This quote: zero tolerance, family separation policy and there are notes from one of the participants on a call that session said quote: we need to take away children. This is missing from the quote, but it basically saying if parents quote care about kids, don't bring the man and then goes on to talk about not giving amnesty to people with kids. Then rod rose and sign. Who was the deputy HIV and remember that grows in time as a career prosecutor, the debt, the deputy generally, runs a day to day the office. He does a car with the? U S attorneys telling the five prosecutors that it could did not matter how young the children were. There had been prosecutors that have refused to prosecute two cases, because the children were barely more than infants and roses and goes on to say that it doesn't matter how young the kids are. And so, when he's asked, when he's interviewed for this inspector general report, he goes on to basically art

that the removal of the kids was not deal jays problem, that it was quote, the equity, because quote of the Department of Health in human services who had to take control of the Children- and it is it is outrageous- is so clearly to me and abuse of his authority as the deputy age you to say that there's no responsibility for what impact the prosecution would have when parents were entering the country with children or trying to enter the country with children. That otherwise did not have other alternatives to care for them and they weren't even try to figure out of their. If there were other options cook couple things. rod roses time when he's asked about it uses weasel words, I think his testimony according to your times, Suddenly I never direct anyone to prosecute any particular person and if any prosecutor, you know, mate brought a case against a particular person. Ably was correct. That's a violation oath, he made a general statement that you should not

consider the age of the children, and they were also sentiments expressed between the higher ups at them from the justice, negatively about use attorneys offices that we're not bringing these prosecution. So it's kind of a the twisted pretzel kind of logic, Two, on the one hand, have said things that would compel people to bring cases that will result in childhood. Separation in childhood vision and, on the other hand, say I'm responsible for it and the other thing that's very clear from all the you're describing as unlike some things here. Everyone was on the same side. It wanted to proceed. There was a rebellion taking place within the department. There were line, scooters and local United attorneys. One who didn't think this was a good idea. I'm trying to fight fight back again, So if you have not only sort of a generalised policy they can say, was issued in on a piece of paper. Know you had a country.

mercy within the department and rod roses time in particular, and Jeff sessions took a particular side in the controversy. In the side they took was one that it's terrible awful and that they will never lived down and should try to weasel out of yeah. I mean look weasel weasel fills me like the perfect word for Rosen sign, but in some ways it's it's even worse than that right because there's a way in which the you know when he talked about the oath, like the person who didn't honour their oath to the United States in the unites his constitution. Was him right. I mean it sort of like he's putting it on other folks saying you know when your face was something you don't believe in you shouldn't do it. While he did a lot of things and either he believed them are, he did in, and he has continually tried to straddle this line in a way that just not accurate right of interest he has been- and I want to talk about a few of the other things, but just to stay on this from for one more minute. I think people also to understand that the choice that sessions and rose and sign made here was a choice that was

not about public safety, and so the idea was, you know, you're gonna stop undocumented people from coming into the country, your by punishing their kids. The reality is that border, but you know the draft report documents a number of things we're not known, including that cop border patrol officers missed serious felony cases, because they were stretched to stand by the zero tolerance policy requiring them to detain and prosecute all of the misdemeanor there. These are the lowest level cases illegal entry cases, so in a one taxes prosecutor warns the top Tioga officials and twenty eighteen, that quote, sex offenders were released, close quote as a result, and you know there are really there's a lack of serving warrants and important cases by the Marshal service because they just didn't have the capacity. So I think it too

It is important to know what choices they were making and it feels incredibly political force when emphasise something that you said about how rod roses time violated his oath and he did both in spirit, and I think in fact, so, according to the report in a senior justice, officials viewed the welfare of the children as a responsibility of other agencies and their duties tracking the parents. Why other peoples to do that, and here's HUN Roses Dine says quote. I just don't see that, as a deal J equity and quote, and when I was in the department is all of these things are part of a deal J equity. If your job is to care about principles and fairness and justice, then you do care about those things. Can't just five off that responsibility on some other agency. It's not here, work and also, to put you know, a fine point on the kinds of things that price

there's were being asked to do and how they repelled added. You had one government prosecutor writing to superiors in a note or in an email quote. We now heard of us taking breast feeding, defendant moms away from their infants. I did not believe this until I looked at the duty log end quote: this is the kind of thing that rod roses I knew about was aware of didn't think was a deal J equity and then goes ahead and blames the prosecutors themselves providing enough. It's it's like the height of to coin, a phrase at the height of grossness. To me tat. I think that try and- and I think it's also really important to just note- also that there was no plan in place. So you and I agree that prosecutors have Consider what's gonna happen, you know you don't just make an arrest in everything ends: you're you're, making an arrest for misdemeanor a low level venture taking somebody's child, which there was absolutely no plan to get that child back and so

You know I sit on the board of a non profit that helps homeless youth. There are kids in Honduras, We are in the custody of care of this non profit who have not yet been reunited with their families, and this is twenty twenty, and so I think that anyone who doesn't understand the devastation of what this was, and what this was intended to be, is missing the point that they didn't care ray and they and for Rosen, signed two then double down into blamed. The people who were saying like this shouldn't have been happening is just it's like it is hate of grossness. I want to say one other thing that which this reminded me of, and I think Rosen sign. I don't know what you think he's got enough way too easy and he's got enough way too easy, because he he is a card carry member of the Trump administration. He repeatedly compromise integrity and ethics. In my personal view, in order to benefit the present United States, who has shown that he does not follow the rule of law, and so the other thing that got me about Rosen Side Street was basically talking about the rule of law there

countries strong- and it's almost like he's he's trying to put himself in a position of like I'm a hero of the robot when it's the exact opposite he's a coward and he's trying now to hide behind the wheel of one when he is The people whose undercut the rule of law in substantial ways- and we talk about the Mulder report in a minute as well, so that the US is the really kind of piss me off. It doesn't happen. Often was a combination of that report and the New York Times and ROD rose, assigns role and the cold hearted things he did and said. Also, then, as you, because you mentioned that I want to read it to folks his delusional and self righteous sanctimonious tweet. This is in the face of present from making these bizarre sort of payments about how Obama and Biden and everyone else should be prosecuted either. There's no evidence supporting such a prosecution rod resist. I tweeted quote

criminal justice will ignore the president's threats against political opponents, as it has in the past, because prosecutors who take an oath to support and defend the constitution, must uphold the rule of law and quote is a fine anodyne statement and high minded statement, but coming out of his mouth without context of it, moment and without an acknowledgment of all the ways in which I think he is violated. His arguably and is allowed, to violate the rose, did really stuck in my cry. What Firstly, stuck in my cries for those of you who are not what are the there's? A new feature by which you can disable replies from your tweet and restrict them only to people who you follow so rod roses on, puts out this tweet disables replies, which means literally no one can reply to him, because he in his the money and self righteousness follows zero people for so so

you know he likes to put out his statement or look at me. Minded rod roses time and we'll talk about ways that I think he has got off the hook on and a variety of things for far too long, but also wants to relieve himself of the legation to see what people have to say back to him, and I find that I find that unacceptable and bad yeah. I want to say to other things about red rose and sign and then, of course we can move on, but but really we could do it entire episode on him. The first is that it's really important to remember back and twenty seventeen when he first came into face when he or you'll remember he's called to a meeting with the president with President tramp. He is told at that meeting that Trump is going to fire. Jim call me he's asked to write this memo, which

sickly and he obviously I'm sure the memo didn't come out of thin air. I'm sure he was complaining about comments and call me had violated the norms of the department by talking about the Hillary Clinton investigation, which a lot of people agree with, but so he's ass right, this mammal he goes out. He writes a memo. He gives it to the president, the President walks out and what should have been surprising to anyone kicker they rose and sign. Who knew that call me was about to be fired, is at the president, says I'm firing. Jim call me because of what the deputy turning general right, Rosen sign sat, and so he uses that memo that rose and sign is written on. What Cobby did wrong with Clayton investigation as a justification for it so Rosa sign, then he threats to quit goes out publicly, and it really are in hindsight now understanding that he left that meaning what the president, knowing that the president was going to fire, call me he was a willing participant. He didn't stand up. He didn't say

He went out and wrote a memo that any one in their right mind should understand. The president was going to be used and he did it because he thought it would be hidden because he didn't think it would see the light of day and he apparently had no issues with it until it became public, and so this goes back to your view of red rose and sign as the weasel in chief, because that's cowardly right like he's willing to violate whatever norms whenever rules would ever rule via he has to violate. He just doesn't want to get caught and that's where he starts to complain and walk back and he puts smaller and as a special council. But it's always about him. always about his reputation and when it mattered and when he had to be standing up to the president, he did it. I went to one more story before that I should mention the folks and, as you know, the over the weekend in response to ride signs tweet, I tweeted a few things and shouted. This conversation, which was not gonna, go well for rod, Rothstein Social put on the record. He key

he reached out to me yesterday. He emailed me and asked me to call him and I decide not to call him back, because you know he can defend himself in a tweet. I don't know if he was because he saw the tweezer of his calling for some other reason. He and I are not friends, so I know that he was calling to get assume drink, but I should just leave here that he did reach out to say something. I don't know what he can respond afterwards, It would be really awkward if he if he was trying to get you for drank I'm just picturing what that would go labour anyway? Sorry, I've I've over other over the folks ever higher priority for drinks than the Mr Roses known, but you just read: it is overlooked and I think it's worth encapsulates allow the problems but rod in how we try to have it both ways. The opening anecdote in Japan

the latest book culture crimes in misdemeanours is interesting to me, and this is publicly known, but I think it just doesn't get the attention it deserves and may sixteenth right on the eve of rose. China, pointing Mueller and I'll say it like. That was a good move, appointing Mueller, but I have a view as to why he did that. I think was more about rods and about the country and about the Department of Justice in about finding out the truth. I think to attack, then he was being maligned by all sides- people who had supported him in the past because of his role in the firing of Jim Commie. Anything. What is the way to make it right for me and sometimes things at a right for you, a lie with what right for the country ethic this case. It did but make no mistake about what has motivations overall were in my mind, he went make things right about himself, and so he didn't nuclear option. The point about mother, but before that happened. Jeff tubing points out in his book. There was a meeting at the White House attended by rod roses, naturally the meeting was set up by right. Roses die at which the president was gonna. Hear from

mother, who is at that point a private citizen in private practice and purpose of the meeting was too little guidance and advice from Bob Mahler about who the next FBI director should be literally Rose this time had reached out and brought mother to the White House, the oval office. In fact, to have this meeting right just answer the presence there. That's what the purpose of the meeting is after my mother gets appointed as a special council Donald Trump, repeatedly, again and again and again said to the public, partly in an effort to to denigrate Mahler and also maybe to get him to refuse himself. An alleged conflict said that Bob Who had come to the White House to beg for his old job back that he wanted to be the appeal which, by the way, I think, was a violation of law, as you already served, the full term that have been extended by Congress again and again and again

The president blatantly lies to the public in an effort to give cast aspersions on the special council. What did ROD Rosen Stein do? to my knowledge- and maybe you can correct it- maybe I'm wrong, then I'll conceded. If I'm wrong, he never corrected the record. He never said that's not true and look. I should say that ROD Rothstein addressed for like a fleeting moment. This particular mother issue on a word matter podcast a few months ago, but, to my mind it was a daily and a doll short. I think he told you have to, but in the book was not true, but here's. An example of progress has died, on the one hand, touting the integrity of our Mahler appointing by mother, some ways he's gone away with a lot of things because he was seen by democratic means. Protecting the mother investigation, but here's a small point The president is lying again and again and again about mother begging for his job back knows it's not keeps his mouth shut, using its under our guiding investigation right too big to be two other areas in the Asian, yes by the president once doing it, but have you

spleen. How do you explain the coward? You explain how it is and a lack of principle on, and I think also we we knew that we talk about this. A little bit went bar. Did the summary of the Mulder report, which remember Robert Mother, came out road, letter saying this is not an accurate summary of the report and you know: Rosen sign stood right by bar and they D put in the letter that they both agree that this that the obstruction part was not prosecuted. As obstruction and they really they twisted and, I think, deeply misrepresented. The work around mother, and so I think you know, look Rosen sign he your he's a survivor. He cast his lot. He was always looking at where the wind was blowing and he just didn't want people to see who he really was. So he was. He kept his head down when it suited him, and you know. I think I think that that's where the story tells you a lot

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