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Politics is something that truly affects all of us that the one thing that we all get to have an opinion on the day that I get like a palace floating in the cloud. You know what that day, I'll stay in my legs: Grass Camille Nardoun, comedians star of a hit show Silicon Valley and the Oscar nominated screenwriter exit. I spoke with him, live in LOS Angeles, about being an immigrant, getting political twitter and who lay in a movie about the trouble administration. That's coming up, but first, let's get your questions. First, one comes in a tweet from John Paul just hate people are at the end of your one thousand one hundred and thirty show you know the importance of democratic congressional oversight. Can I call, for example, Whitaker before then multiple times or just one bite at the apple, hashtag, asprey, suppose you're, referring to the acting attorney general, who is generated quite a bit of controversy about his appointment and

modifications Matthew Whittaker. So we already know that there are Democrats who are very excited and anxious to have met when it comes to testify before them during Adler, who will become the chair of the judiciary, in a larger cummings, will become chair of the government Oversight Committee in the House have both said publicly. They reached out to met Whittaker, who is agreed to come testify sometime in January I think it is likely that he will be before members of Congress. Both Democrats, Republicans at the prerogative of the new democratic chairman in a matter of weeks whether or not he comes in testifies in the Senate remains to be seen, but it is usually the case that heads of agencies, in particular the d o J, come before both the Senate and the House oversight committees on a fairly regular basis may be once or twice a year to answer. Questions generally about habit in its functioning resources. Other controversial things that may have come up. Obviously, in the case of that Whittaker this

the concern you can expect of the Democrats in the house will be much more interested in having that would have become testify. Then the Republicans in the Senate, but I would expect him to before both- and I think there is some concern on the part of Republicans as well, do they get one by the apple. I mean they actually depending on how Europe considering it get multiple bites. We know that there are two committees: the house, the one I talked him. Maybe there will be an until many that wants to talk to him as well. You'll probably be coming before the Senate, to It is not. A permanent nominating, remains an office for any significant period of time. depending on how those things go, they can ask him to come back and separate from asking him to come back. You there's alive hearing with a witness. There's an opportunity to ask written questions which sometimes get ignored or sometimes get dodged capacities are to do that in writing than in person. The other thing is with respect to someone like an attorney general or acting turn general coming testified before Congress. That testimony is not narrow; in other words, everything is

table. I participated in a number of oversight hearings when a border Gonzales was the attorney general and also when my communication with the attorney general and members each have their own interests and their own local is that they want to ask about. So nothing will be off the table and you can spend three very wide, ranging not just focusing on the particular controversy of the day, and they will be an opportunity to get more information from that wave or so I would expect in the company's define our expect those hearings to be incredibly interesting and shut.

on a light, but hopefully by then we'll have a permanent nominee? But, as you know, present Trump has said very clearly that he's happy would have met. Whittaker is doing not withstanding the clear conflicts notwithstanding the fact that more qualified people were passed over for the Whittaker appointment so expecting fireworks in January I free my name is Jeffrey. Will Clifton from Seattle, Washington just heard the news about Michael Flynn and not more recommending that he received no jail time. I question is I can lawyers make these reckon nations shouldn't decisions like this, be up to the judge thanks and they found a shell thanks to every from Seattle. I was just in Seattle for a couple days in August great place, I hope to come back so the flint sentencing he's gonna take place on December in advance of that sensing. As always, the government puts into the court a sentencing memorandum and then the defendant will put in his response

and also to people were waiting with bated breath last night for the government submission special council submission. I saw in this way, the headline breaking news on cable last night, last, I being Tuesday December for awaiting sensing memorandum from the government, which is not something you typically see. but it S. Everything going on now is high stakes in a lot of interest. So if you things before, we get your point on the governor recommendation no jail time. So the special councils office file to documents were is the government's memorandum in aid of sensing Rico's through the details of the plea it goes through some of the particular characteristics of Michael Flan, the defendant and talks about what the proper sense could be that they recommend and then there's an addendum to the guy this memorandum and aid of sensing, which purports to set forth the assistance that Michaelson gave in connection with its cooperation with the government. So few things one is we learn from these documents that Michael Flynn participated in

nineteen sessions with the government, so I have a lot of experience doing these kinds of things, and sometimes it is true and complicated cases. A call bringing witness, will come in and prepared with the government, take them through documents, particularly if their financial documents and meet in a five six, seven, eight nine times. Nineteen times is not super rare, but its that's a lot of times to meet, and I presume that it wasn't twenty minutes sessions, each you're talking about whole morning for whole afternoons or maybe even entire days. So there's a lot of information that Michael Flint clearly gave the government there no simply from the fact that there are nineteen sessions. Second, the fact that much of the addendum, It acted as I'm sure you ve seen that interesting to me, because usually it's the case when a cooperating witness himself, The government agree that sentencing should happen. Means of their usefulness is over. That means information they have given his pipe.

We been used and there's been testimony about it and the person has participated in trials of other people against whom he or she has given substantial information. It's usually not the case, but it happens really not the case that some of the information about which they have testified is so sensitive and real. Two ongoing investigations, but you go ahead and sentenced person. So I have an open question and of talk some friends about this about why it is it. Michaelson is prepared to be sentenced even of those other ongoing investigations in which he has given information are not completed. It may be that The government has no interest in calling Michaelson as a witness that he's provided information or documents, and they have other leads that they can use to prove things that they want to prove. about Michael Michaelson. Usually you want someone like Flynn to have the hammer of a potential sense ahead of him when he goes and testifies in court you know and Emily Gemini. I, the coffee, insider part, is talked about this a couple days ago. With respect to Michael Cashman, who also it appears as partition,

in giving information, ongoing matters and just to be sentenced and according to microphones Council their sensing memorandums the week of assembly memorandum. Apparently he wants to get on with his life. He doesn't want to delay and if there's gonna be a prison term, he wants to do it, serve it, get past it and make the trends into being a law abiding citizen going forward, maybe that part of it with Michael Flynn but is not clear. The other thing that interesting maybe we sort of new this. The documents make very clear that, among the things that Michael Flynn has given information about, notwithstanding the reductions one that isn't? Reacted is the following: the defendant, meaning Michael Flynn, has also assisted with us, the council office investigation concerning links for coordination between the russian government and visuals associated with the term campaign the goes on to say. He's, on the same with respect to interactions between russian officials and the presidential transition team, so

he has given a lot of information about the very central purpose of the mother investigation, which people in lay persons terms call collusion. So it seems like there's a lot there. You don't meet with some a nineteen times if they have not provided information is worth while the first three four five or eighteen times, so I will stay tuned for that. Never go back your central question, Jeffrey! That's why the recommendation is no jail time. Remember what it is that Michael Flint pledge guilty to he played, It was single count of making false statement materially false into the FBI in violation. Actually we talk about a lotta shown. Everyone has become much more familiar with eighteen. We see one thousand one any lied about his dealings, both with Russia and also his dealings with Turkey. Now that, as we have all been saying lying to the government, an action with an investigation is harmful to the investor and it undermines the rule of law and its a serious crime. That said, it is not the muscle crime in the world, it's more than a process. Crime,

is really really I like to call it, but it carries with it not a particularly long prison cell according to the sentencing guidelines, so even in its own terms, especially because Michael Flynn, like some defendants, has no prior record, which would be an aggravating circumstance and would bring up the recommended sentence. The advisory guideline range for violation per a plea to the statute of describe one thousand one is easier to six months, so lots and lots of people who get prosecuted for making a statement to the government get no jail time at all. Even without substantial assistance are substantial cooperation, so it's not nuts and by the way, is to make something clear. The prosecutors only reckon you're, absolutely right that the judge should make the file determination about sentence, and the judge will on December eighteenth. But the prosecutors are an appeal, and to make a recommendation, and I think there are three three grounds. One has already said:

a violation of the statue thousand one carries with it a low sentence, in fact the bottom of the range of zero meaning no prison time and a maximum of six months. Typically, he provided really substantial assistance. They must find him credible, unbelievable and helpful. the other thing about his cooperation- that the government emphasizes more than once in the documents, is that his assistance was timely, and so the immediacy of his cooperation going to the government itself seemed to help his case law and then finally, now Michael Flynn, analytically care for him and the wakened up himself during the campaign- and I critically oversaw and help to less chance of locker up and has become poor and nasty showmanship, but as a german notes, magazines service to the country, An extraordinary, Especial Council Mahler acknowledges microphone. Given the military for over thirty three years, including five years of combat duty, he led the defence intelligence agency in retires three star lieutenant General

and they say- and I quote, the defendants record of military public service distinguish him from every other person who has been charged as part of a special council off. this investigation. So the combination of it being a statute that doesn't carry a large sends generally the faculty provided lots and lots of information and, finally, that he has provided extraordinarily service to the country going back three decades. I think makes it not unreasonable to ask for no prison types of people's heads for exploding about this thing, I think you're not quite right, I mean, obviously the the countervailing argument is that because he was a public service a long time and have these high positions you should have known better and the government submission makes. That point also, I think, on balance. Given circumstances. Nevertheless, the recommendation of no prison time is not unreasonable, hybrid rape, romanian apples,

and this morning we were usually only thought CNN Farm inputs, defence team, then updating the present legal team on the Morrow probe. Henderson is joint defence agreements, a common when defended, share a common interest, but medical or the cooperative witness would plead guilty not offended. Have you ever heard and worry that an arrangement like this, where cooperating when this was sharing inside information? With the subject of investigation, it seems somewhere between unethical and illegal, but rubies nonchalantly in the end for clearing up any accusation, re, that's a great question and one that lots of people been asking and scratching their heads over used by we're back people understand, there is sacrosanct thing colleague, turn inclined privilege, and everyone gets that and I think, based on watching television, even You haven't been to law school. You understand how that works is also something called a joint defence agreement which

so make sense, if you think about it. So let's egg prosecutors, investigate or prosecute no five people at a company that are engaged in a fraud and at the time They are alleged to all work together in the same conspiracy and had access to the same documents and had the same fiduciary. obligations or what not. They all have aligned interests, because we're all didn't defending themselves against the government's prosecution and it seems reasonable to allow them in alleged way to share information between, among each other, also understood by all the parties, including the other people at the company and the prosecutor's office if it such time, one? Member of that group of five in my hypothetical decides to cooperate with the government, presumably to testify against the other four and help the prosecutors put. The other four in prison. The net. Cooperating witness no longer is aligned with the other four. In fact, a complete adversaries to completely against each other in

the idea that they would have a continuing joint defence agreement does it make any sense on its case and so to answer one party or question most directly Have I ever heard of a circumstance in which a cooperate is with the government was providing information about that cooperation about the strategies and interests and questions of the government. To some one against whom he might be cooperating enters. I've never heard of that an illegitimate circumstance. It doesn't make any sense in it manifold. information that could have incriminating, respected trump and against trumps interests than those communications between Paul metaphor and his lawyers. On the one hand, and I'll trump and his lawyers would usually I or anyone else, on the other hand, cannot be covered by any joint defence. Agreement cannot be covered by any privilege and can be asked. Now it's interesting in part about all this, and we all know the details yet is upon us.

What's collaboration with a government crashed and burned, they did what we metaphorically referred to as rip up the cooperation agreement. They described it that special councils office, as a result of, constant lies by Paul metaphor, and I wonder if one of the issues was in fact this not just that he was lying about particular things in connection with proper sessions. He must have been having with especial councils office but also was back channeling information. Due to the presidents lawyers which, by the way on its own, you know when I was united Attorney, would have been sufficient by itself to show the person the door and say no, no more cooperating with you. So what's gonna happen Similarly, the special councils office, you will try and some and to find out what kind of information was given to the trump lawyers. But that's no easy task to dissent. They tried to find out from you an effort he probably was lying to them to do so when I find that out from the Trump folks, do not answering these questions and probably will refuse

No mothers office could actually take Heaven downing who's. The lawyer to comment afford subpoena him. When the grand jury do the same with a trump lawyer, because don't see any argument for protecting the communications in this circumstance between the man for people and the tree people and also be interested in seeing what the joint defence it actually says mean the. I guess it's not absolutely require, but, generally speaking, people reduce these things to writing. So in the example that I mentioned, the five folks the company, their lawyers were actually executing agreement or the lorries would sign them saying actually what the terms of the joint That's agreement are and make it clear that if any party finds out his or her interests are no longer aligned with the rest that they must withdraw, does arise of instruction on the manifold side I mean it. May I think it depends on what the other circumstances were. It depends on what the intent was. very difficult for someone like Manifold and Kevin Downing who

now is a well known lawyer was in the Justice Department for a long period of time. The he could claim the hidden understand down. Trumps team would be able to change their testimony and figure ways to undermine the mother investigation by getting this inside information. So that could happen meal fight about it- maybe there won't and then, on the other hand,. No is evidence that this Was done in a way that would cause the Trump folks to be liable for his tampering again, that's often a difficult thing to prove their lots of other things. Trump has done, including sending public tweets about the stone and how lovely it is it. He was strong and stood up, basically, no telegraphing, the possibility of a pardon, all those things, to my mind, gets through to the edge of witness tampering but approve a particular violation of a particular dad you and all the elements without obstruction witnessed hampering to me requires knowing a little bit about the details, Lubin more about corruption, a little bit more about what? What's in people's minds and what their intentions were, but

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a g t q, you IP dotcom, slash preach before we get to my conversation with Camille. I want to remind you to check out this new thing. We're doing cafe. Insider members get out. as to the new Cathy Insider POD, its co host, by an Milgram. My good friend, and maybe more relevantly, the former attorney general of New Jersey that pod drops every Monday Members will also get a weekly newsletter and more to sign up. Gotta caffeine outcome, slash insider and folks, just one more thing: you know. The live show was in LA. It was late the evening and so Camille, you know curse a little bit. So just a heads up in case you listening to the past with kids around. thank you. Thank you thanks. Everybody we're in LOS Angeles

I love being cheered. knowing what city I'm in you're an easy crowd to please. I feel bad for the forty five thousand people were still outside, but by like I think we have one point: two million in the theater, So the Wheelchair EVIL Theatre, which is a famous theatre, no offense the theatre people, but that the one, depending on your preference, is the one deficiency is there's no alcohol, there's no bar I understand some people have been upset about that, and I want to apologize to you. I was told that one audience member for the show actually became Billy belligerent. was upset that there was no alcohol bank, his fist on the table began. Yelling then started crying did you have to come over and say look

justice Cavanaugh you really need to get a grip bring outcome, male non Johnny in a few minutes, but you know it's kind of announcement towards world peace, male and I will be on stage together. Who is from pain, first, on an from India. And they're not supposed to like each other, or at least My father said Years ago, your committee comes from Pakistan, but so my Father in law and both of my parents were born. Four partition in what is now This done in Rob indeed and came over to the indian side. My father in law was born on the indian side and after partition, the balls belongings, just like my parents, did and the other. The border and moved to Pakistan

My mother in law. Meanwhile, halfway ass. The globe her family was in Germany during the nazi period and my mother, my family is jewish. Her father was allowed practice law. It's important so they moved out of Germany. got a book in Palestine, which is where my mother in law, was born. So every member of the grandpa group in my family. Is born somewhere had to move, for reasons politics and hatred. Animosity about various religions. but now we all live in America emigrate, about that is those kinds of activities should be less And so my family has a very diverse back or least with respect of faith, So I have three kids and my three kids have one hinder, grandparent one seat: grandparent, One muslim grandparent and one jewish grandparent,

which means, if I'm doing the math correctly makes them. Napoleon Camille Non Giuliani. Has has really made a name for himself he's an extraordinary actor and writer gifted performer. I mentioned he's pakistani American. He came to the U S at the age of eighteen group in Karachi, He has been a long time where the cast of Silicon Valley, is he's a director. He is an Oscar nominated screenwriter for them. we did, he wrote with his wife Emily the big sick, which is terrific. I didn't. Do you see a lot more from com Nanjing, Annie

I ate has again so I was showing you backstage before we came out that it was really. To prepare for this interview cause you know. Sometimes I have a guest. podcast and a like written books, which you have to read it to prepare for it. I got to basically my wife was upstairs in the loft office. I have in the basement laughing hysterically watching all your clip? So thank you for me. I was a day you give rap. Now I promise you. I will never write a book Joking isolation told me on her. That was a year and a half ago, it's hard right. It is very, very hard I give up on books, unlike I trust that it ends

I can write a lot of words but having them makes sense, one after the other four, like an extended period of time. That's a challenge, so I was going to start with a joke. My first live show it with was with the seminars, and I began and my interview with him by congratulating him on his excellent new movie. The big stick and then I was going to start with you and congratulate you on your new Netflix Show Patriot ACT. Then I but then I read that kind of peace. you're off when you get confused with other, south asian comedians, actors nobody's it's coming from south asian person? That's fine of so I could have you. If you are a white guy,

me, I'm great on big bang theory. Fucking angry this happens to me. It is always out just thinking about this. Does that moment of dread? When someone comes up to you, like hey, I'm such a fan, yours, oh good on and, as always from me a moment of dread where I'm like they're gonna, say the wrong thing, and then it's gonna be my job to make them not feel horrible about it and two years ago I made them asian that I wasn't gonna take on their awkward knows. I was just going to be like like, for instance, there was a famous actor who came up to me, and I was like hey. I'm fan of yours is like oh yeah. We worked together. I did big bang theory and I was like. Oh that's nice me? That's the other one, that's what I always say now: the other one, and then he really awful, and I was like it's not my job to make. You feel better about this. Remember

this feels and then fix fix your share, so born in Pakistan correct been established, and then you moved from Pakistan at age, eighteen to Iowa, we were you planning to run for the presidency is about carcasses I wish. I knew that not being born in America. You have to be other born in America or Kenya to be president. Otherwise you can be president. I went to Iowa because I didn't know how big America was and how many different places there are here It's not all like allay. Well, that's the thing. It's only known America from movies setting new Yorker allay when alone I was like this at sea. I hadn't seen field of dreams.

So I didn't know the one movie that would have prompt me for that, so you want to cut so I find this fascinating about you. As you may see, you go to college in Iowa and father was a doctor, is, is a doctor and you major in computer science awesome for them and philosophy. How did they get if I so, my dad's a doctor, deeply disappointed that I didn't go ethical school at my brother and go to medical school was briefly Joyce that I had a huge position and now again as, like. His son is a path cancer, so the cheapest, disappointment has returned, you took the longest the plot casting a most people just do a couple open makes him get right into it mean bill. O'reilly, different rowdy took just for the record.

I feel I guess it's kind of like if I had decided to kind of please my parents and then do my own thing like hey, I'm majoring in Bio, cam and interpretive dance. How they would have been received in my house. Was there any thinking about what your parents views be in deciding how you plan to a career in your education in taking computer science for sure yeah I mean I didn't really up. Obviously, my parents warrant, like our hopefully or some grows up to be a philosopher, major from a liberal arts school enough. That was not the path that they wanted for their son: but it really was. You know this was like. I was in college in the late nineteenth early, two thousands, and that was when the Tec.

Was- and I literally my last couple years of College- is when the first tech bubble burst and I taken computer science, hoping that I'd be able to get a job here and get a visa here and all that, so that was definitely the practical choice and then I chose philosophy, because that's what I really really enjoyed reading and talking about and they're, actually not that different. So you did stand up. You also began to act, and one of the challenges you have is that you're not one of them a white guy? What so their hark oh no are this explains so much so you know make a decision about working on the one hand and work is high I'm told in this town and also taking rules that you believed in I read that you somewhere once said that you the decision, which

noble and great decision, but it seems to be, You know not so easy decision to make if you're, just starting out that you Wouldn'T- take rules are a caricature, is up Estonia, man or a muslim man. How hard was apt to stick with yeah? why I decided that I would never like Do they. I did so many audacious where they would want me to do the accident like there would be, how could you do it, but could you do it? A little more now find here knew what they were saying. Vague and it's all I mean hurries talked about this lot, but it's all based on the full access, which is a white guy, doing a brown it really fucked for so long and an end. I guess it! Ok, if I do it like a brown guy, doesn't tat will do whatever we, while we're at the bottom of the talks

Jordan Paul right now we can make fun of every race try and- and I did in, and I made a decision pretty early on. Actually, I've only got one thing where I did play up my accident and it was one of the first things I ever did, and I just so bad and my parents also and my parents have been you know- we talked about them alone, but they ve been argument very, very supportive, and they always sort of trusted me after due? Did they just trusted that I would make the right decisions, even if they didn't agree with them, and they did say that they didn't agreed with them, but the authors, they trusted me, and so there was one that for the first jobs I got was me. I played up my accident and I've done it that one time and my parents didn't say it, but I could tell that they were a little disappointed. That and- and I think right after that, I decided I

I'm gonna, do that its? It wasn't a noble thing I just would like it just made me feel bad. It wasn't that I thought that it would be bad for are people or representation of diversity or anything it just made me feel bad to do it. So I decided I wouldn't do it. You want I'm being confused for other people and make them more than once the question you hey Kumar, where's, Harold, yes and it fuck me, because this mechanism as to some not in that world when I was a line assistant, no career process, when I was young, other cases with a friend of mine, organised crime cases and the I thought in the autumn and Manhattan. It was Crean American, and there was literally an agent for federal law enforcement agency hook does Harold and Kumar and in

it or I became the. U S attorney and in June my friend became the deputy use attorneys, those like last less on you, but it's kind of. I don't think the person meant an insult by it. What do you think of people who come up to you and say things like hey come on we're Harold? Well, it's all depends on the intent. First of all, I dont think its ever really right for somewhat. If, if someone came up to me, even if I thought they were making a joke and they were like, hey come on where's Harold, you can do it, but I would and the lights are low, but I would imagine most of these people can't do it. Yet

story checks out. I feel like not all of it comes from bad intent right. I think a lot of it comes from trying to connect with the person or trying to find some some degree of common ground. I think we all sort of make judgements on people based on how they look snap judgments right and I think, races of big where the people make those decisions do, and I think people who look like you and me have not really been a big part of american popular culture for that long, at least not up, not a big positive part of it. The intent isn't always bad, but I do

make the result almost always as bad, which is that you're sort of reducing people to the race, even if you don't intend to for me, you know the hard thing about racism for me has been I'm I'm a very well adjusted adult I'm successful, I'm very happy when someone is racist to me. It does make me feel bad, and I understand intellectually, that it's fault. The problem is with them. I haven't done anything wrong, but it does make me feel bad. It does make me feel flattened, and it makes me feel like there isn't that much to me these are you have. Is your travelled subtle, fantasy about her will respond to racists. What I'm have now. I always have a sentence that is going to the only point in my life, where I have something that out that I know to sort of go to do we tested here say something raising living raises? Go

most of your name. You gotta pass right now, yeah, what's your first and last name, and your home address go and then here. yet we determined held in Kumar. I had this Your experience and maybe doesn't make sense, but in in thinking about you and listening to you, I rose other What have the same experience there? Now many south asian ceremony Asian Americans generally, who were in film, who you see screen and you see people who are not like you any sort of get used to it. Now. Group watching happy days another chosen, the right you never going to be like me, and when you did, it was a caricature right. It was like up who, from the Simpsons or with joy, Harlow from go to a class and was always some either like a cab driver, which is you know, the only good one is dependent in debt pool contrary,

statement come out of the come up to me and told me. I was great and dead poor. I swear to God, so Either it's either. You run a seven eleven or you're a cab driver or you're a doctor and when held and Kumar came out that was a watershed. Wised it so cow pen, plays a guy who basically is a head. I hadn't ever seen an Indian American south asian actor. Talk like that and be kind of Who, like Van and become like bad, like that, I really thought there was a big deal. Oh, I thought Harold and come up with a huge. You have never actually met cow, but we ve corresponded online and I told him. I really think that him playing like sort of a stone or slacker guy was huge for us that was so different from any of the stereotypes and- and he actually

regional respond dogmas, that he said that somebody told him that he was really good and Silicon Valley? The other thing that's great, as is that I've become friends with John Show, and so now I really wants. to be like hey Kumar, whereas heralds electrodes right there. Because one thing I want to say is the one thing that I have noticed in the last few years. That I really want to fight is the tyranny of the deep positive portrayal I feel like there's there's some people think that diversity means representing a group of people in a positive light, and I think that that's reductive, I think my job is not to present. People is not at present brown people as good people. I think my job is to represent brown people as people as com.

Lex, real people away with all the problems and and lack of problems that white people- you know it's not my job to portray people is being necessarily or bad necessarily is just as being people. I think that's this victory, so the big sick and what I said at once. I say it again: unbelievable movie. Thank you very proud of it. one of one of the themes in the in the film, because it's based on truth of your relationship with your wife, how you met your wife, Emily and the relationship of their parents of her illness in its very both funny moving smart, thoughtful, unexpected. One of the themes of any immigrants life, including yours and mine, is how. maintain sort of sunlight Kennedy, but where you're from whether it's the land

or the music or the food or their religion, On the other hand, becoming American and others themes? Are people talk about their right essays. You do it in the film in a way that accessible and reliable, which I think helps a lot of people to understand that predicament. How do you think about it in your life, having no, I can't How do you know that you're all you know, but I have sort of old fashioned very connected to India, parents which is wonderful, So for you coming here at eighteen, having a whole life being brought up in Pakistan. How do you think about what you keep in? What you? Don't you you know what I think about a lot is my eye. Maybe right like what group do I belong to and I don't feel fully american because a big part of Europe, membership in a group is based on the other members of the group thinking you belong in that group and I think that is a bit

Uncle America, that does it see me as American. Similarly, I think, there's a big chunk of Pakistan that doesn't see me as pakistani. You know the project is to fortune identity that combines the right things from both those places, but there's no there's nobody to look through for me. You know, there's nobody. I can look at it, be like what that was a pakistani America Listen who figured out themselves and they have an identity that that's very definable. Have you heard from people from fans that you were like that for other people, terrifying people have come up to me and said that, but the as I don't. I don't really have any answer. If anybody has answers, dear me, there's some institutions that are there it's what I want to talk about adjust its passing to me, because I grew up with it. In my home. Your parents had I presume, arranged marriage, yes

my parents and arrange marriage. Everyone in my family You know older generation haven't I In marriage, people understand many of you look what what that means. It's, the way has a describes. It, I think, is basically like it's it's tender for south asian people and you your parents, swipe, for you and it was always expected. So my parents, I would see the the undertook great enterprise left. My dad left. India The young man you're twenty nine years old, didn't know anyone in America, but he kept expecting that we would all grow up and be a particular way that we would need beef and we would be religious in a particular way and we would have arranged marriages, the famous phrase all discuss. When we were young in sore. The indian american community was how strict they were and known. You could never date

and one time one of the Anti said sword Miss speaking in a way they did no dating until after you're married. That's all right line. She she missed spoke I remember once she's like the yoga yogi era I mean what's being with, but with an uncle of mine when I was a teenager who was going to to get married and he's real estate agent one of his colleagues was in the car and was saying you know- I'm leaving for four Indy on the weekend. I'm gonna get married to cooperate. We areas outside of daily. What's her name and my uncle, I don't know yet not that abnormal story now. So, as you know what the many ways, but not with the person your marrying is like here, obviously that sounds unusual and it's not,

usual were from, but to me it's not so much crazier, then no one someone in being like all right, let's spend the rest of our life together. You know and that's what I did I've known Emily Emily slightly over a year now, let's do this, the rest of our lives together. Right, really, love. You need a green card just being serious. To me. It's not so crazy. You know I mean, I think all of this is it's. All of this is crazy, we're just trying to sort of he ate, meaning in you- know those asunder supernova than some particle state somewhere in them gases. Like revolved around it and then it made the earth, and now here you are doing a fucking podcasting like all

This is our legs all do. The best we can also like when you became a citizen is very exciting, is a very exciting day. I've thought about this. I became a citizen. I think it was like twenty eleven twenty Twond so got to I've got to vote for that election. Twenty twelve election, my guy last, but still out. Ok now I did vote for Obama and it was really it was that the ILO Conventions Centre and there were like six thousand people- Obama comes on and welcomes you to being an American and I've thought that now it's gotta be It's not Obama anymore. It's gotta be individual one right. So also known as President tee.

I don't like taking a p work at Guy Individual one, You talk about politics, but Europe meeting in an actress MIKE. What do you say to people? Because I think it's great? What do you say to people when they say stain your lame? Why talkin about this stuff? This is what's crazy. To me, is that politics is something that truly affects all That's it. That's the one thing that we all get to have an opinion on the day that I get like a Fuckin palace in the cloud. You know what that day, I'll stay in my life. I won't talk about, what's happening on planet earth. Could it doesn't affect me anymore, but until that day it affects me, it affects my parents. there's. No. This is our lame. I mean, You're, not gonna, get invited to be in the Lord Ingram show any time soon. That's fine! do you know her? I do now.

I personally know Nokia region know her. I know of I know I love to its you're more outspoken in a lot of folks you're on Twitter, a bunch I follow you You should follow Camille if you don't already. You say a lot of things. How come oh my god. I think it was I decided it was a long time ago I was in a twitter. Is just gonna, be you know my work is my work and have put a lot of thought and work into it, and intentionally now like Twitter is the funding that I can have that. I could just say whatever is on my mind and its source: became the what's, but back in the last couple of years, has been this stuff and does anyone ever tell you that my dad from time to time bring my dad again will sometimes this text me in the morning. You need to stop yeah yeah.

funny enough the present a text with a mouse to stop treating? Is your dad got me to shave my beard? I did have a beard until a couple days ago. Look good and imbued look very good in a beard. Thank you. You said if the here's, what you said on a tweet writes a twin twitters to be A fund may be synergy. Maybe you know you posted photo of your cat. You once tweeted this in the summer quote letter poverty in this tweet, I have We believe that there is no inherent sense of right and wrong within people that Marie it comes from a just society An unjust society leads to immoral people, it mass atrocities happen? What has happened in this country. Right now makes me Leave this more like. What do you mean by that

what I mean is. I think- and this is a controversial position I want to say I'm a very very people who know me know me is a very optimistic, happy person, I'm a I'm, a very positive person, but part of how I see the world. I do think that human beings don't have it in sense of goodness. I really were animals like everything else. I don't think that were born any innate sense of morality. I think a sense of right or wrong comes from our shared relationships with other people, but that is not I dont, think of it as likes or any kind of an archaic thought or anything. I think beautiful, I think we ve created this meaning and morality and we have created community just because we ve

created it doesn't mean that it doesn't have value that it doesn't have meaning. I think that the most important thing I think people will, you know, sometimes aspect if you're, if someone's, not religion, How do you have a sense of goodness sake? While I get a sense of goodness from the people around me, and I think that that's wonderful, we all in some ways create our own meaning, and just because we created ourselves doesn't mean it's not the most important thing in the world. So you talk about community and we talk a little bit about being an immigrant there's a lot of aunt. immigrant feeling in the country and people like to say its end, illegal immigrant and you and I both know, there's an ant immigrant feeling and certain kinds of immigrants, safer from Norway on the part of some folks whose names- I won't mention Stephen Miller and you communicate with people. You bring people together. You act, you talk, you make people laugh and an immigrant yourself, and you face these things. What is yours? on how you can a community in which their appeal.

but who are not like you understand that you actually are like them- in the most fundamental important ways. I think ultimately- and I don't have to answer your question, but I thought about this a lot in the last couple of years. I think ultimately sing. directly two people, I am a human being with value or these immigrants are human beings with value. I think, ultimately, it doesnt really work. I think, if I talk to someone who is and tie up syrian immigrants right, there's nothing I can say to them. I learn does not

Chirac and show them that was to me to a real wake up call was when people can see pictures of refugees and not see themselves in them. I think that that's really truly this kind of no hope in that approach. I think my job is not to talk to people directly and try and change their mind. I think my job is to try and do work that some people may watch and that they can come to that conclusion themselves and I think that you're not making pop culture mainstream entertainment tat can humanize all kinds of different people. I think that that the approach that I want at least trying to go through some issues that you care about, and you talked about the media, How this president uses the media, you once said something bout. Sarah Sanders.

The intersection of free press and comedy. I think you said something like. we shouldn't be putting Sarah Sanders in these comedy sketches right. She You just fade into oblivion. Beguiling, comedies job is tricky because you can talk about something in a specific way and you can take it down or you can t about something in a different way and normalize make it seem. Ok, so Sarah Sarah Sanders Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who has done a lot of bad stuff if we put it in a comedy sketch- and I was taught me specifically about who was who was with Sarah had defenders before Sarah. How could he said on slicer I'd, say faded into oblivion in my head. I did it right, I think tat

One chance by sir was in that comedy sketch, and I love Stephen Crowborough, my biggest fan of hers. I really think he is absolutely amazing, but I do think that that was a mess that if we take these people who ve done actual harm, I represent them in these guph. It's not people playing them. It's them themselves, train humanised them. I mean What was people are like? What was wrong with Fallon, you know running is hands the trumps her, that's exactly what was wrong. It's not comedies job is not to make these people feel normal. Your job is to be like crazy. Shit is happening in not to make them so so next next subject, Serena show CALL Silicon Valley, Bill Gates, There's something about Silicon Valley once gave up, woman to your show and said, if you want

understand Silicon Valley, the place Watch, Silicon Valley. And I dont know if this is a function of you're feeling some obligation to have an opinion on the culture of the place that's being depicted in the show, but you been critical about this or the ethics and morality of tech companies and what another thinking about ethics in the way they should where we going. Oh man, this is what so fucking crazy So the come is that since we ve been making movies, we ve been making movies about a robots, killing us so many movies. Since the fucking if these and then later, you obviously the matrix but- in all this, and still we're still heading in that direction, raising to me that we ve known for decades Oh yeah, computers are gonna, destroy us anyway. There's no one knows where your faces. It listen

to everything you say, but I don't get it do anything bad, it's so crazy. So am I it's the opposite of what you said. It wasn't that I felt obliged to have an opinion in Silicon Valley, because I was in a show about Silicon Valley. It was the opposite. I was like a warm on this show. My job is just to be on the show. This is not really, issue that I care about deep, the effect they techniques, he has in our life was not really something I thought about that much, but it was because you know, because the shell we would have the opportunity to go to these tech companies, big tech companies and you go to these conventions and and AEGIS, see the Tec that people are working on and and the lack of any thought about ethics that goes into development of this deck. I think there's this whole thing in Silicon Valley, where they think like tech itself, is not moral or immoral. It's the way,

we use it, but that's exactly what the gun companies like you're, making stuff, knowing how it can be misused or not. Even it is your job to think about right, like if you make something like Facebook, you can't say. While we didn't think that fake news would be that if you make something, it is your job to think about all the d, the negative ways that it can be used right, you're, you're, obviously trying by the parties. ways it can be used. It is your job to think about the consequent. Maybe that's your calling. It occurs to me Maybe somebody who has had a double major in computer science and philosophy. is very well suited to reforming the tech industry. We look keep telling your jokes, that's one. that's just as important as the death of society by robots and my god he's just like my dad

you know what I was talking to my friend about this. We are the the. only generation. They got to grow up sort of without really technology in our lives. To that extent, without the internet, and then we got to see the good parts of the internet and only the good parts having our phones and all that stuff and having all this knowledge at your fingertips and down, we got to see and now it's destroying us right, so we really are in a way the one generation they got to see that whole our captain, yes, philosophical I want I want. I want to end with there are things that maybe then more philosophical, also that you said when you gave the commencement address, at your alma mater Grenelle in Ireland and in one of the thing You said by way of advice to the graduating class and

seventeen, because we want do enough of this- is quote populate your life with people different from you and then you further said this, which is not said so frequently. Is it understand the pain behalf an opinion such as our jobs are being stolen and try to empathize. and then you also say believe me, it is not easy when by that unwise at important. It's nice is that what is anti immigrant sentiment come from? It comes from I suppose you're someone who can find a job and you have a family in its hard to find it's hard to support your family, and you feel that that's your duty to do that and to some extent. Obviously it is, and then you like, Why can't I find a job like this happen? Whose fault is it and then someone's they're saying it's those people in the caravan? Those does. Does kids in diapers we're getting guy, it's their fault.

therefore fault, so you can sort of understand what that came from right so but I mean, even though it's really hard is to try and trying to see that all the negative sentiment does come from some some, ultimately, some kind of reliable place. But so do you think patient something you said before when people question: how do we make things better? Is it more through art or more through politics and government? I think different people choose different Patsy now you you ve sort of bridged that path. I think my my way to try and do it is undertaken, and I think some people's way to do it is through through politics and governments. I think he just sort of trying to find the way there You think you can best serve the vision in your head and you do that it can be very hard, but maybe I don't know, maybe there's all sorts of different ways do.

all so overwhelmingly, but we end with The very quick lightning round I thought you, and it believes getting end with just using its also overwhelming goodnight everyone I'd say it is overwhelming, but I do believe I think I do out we're gonna be ok, I think so. I think I'll, let you know I don't know I am very optimistic. I believe an optimism, I believe and idealism I think America's great work has always been great Fact this may sound self serving, but the fact like, like twelve hundred people, came through The driving reign in LOS Angeles, did to see a couple. south asian guys, talk, yeah stuff gives me great hope. America yeah some of them don't have Winchell wipers that they have money.

years. True hardship, I thought it was so funny that you quoted me saying, surround yourselves with people different from you, and here I am on statehood, another man of middle ground, for whom laugh the most. I really do think the funniest person I know is Emily. Life, she really she makes me laugh all the time and it's not not me being sweet. That's just completely true. She just makes me laugh all the time all the time every day which are favoured Donald Trump lie. I liked one where he was like we're use tying about coal This cold is going to be so clean can to be so clean and want to believe it. It's really clean and I just want someone to be like what does that mean What do you mean clean call every day he says stuff that one was murdered from la whichever one gets him impeached

do you think I just wrote: just now lagging Emily, think he's gonna get him paste. I think there's a decent chance. The healing get a piece of a people. Forget that doesn't mean convicted. I think this right will never can victim. I think almost against their will given was coming out with the mother investigation given what's happening with man. A fork. What's happening will likely happen with Roger Stone. What's gonna happen with Jerome course he and his own idiotic need to lie publicly perhaps in the written questions that people like during Adler who's gonna, take the gavel that the almost will have no choice but to proceed. I think- and I think I think more than I ever have before that it's gonna, be it's gonna, be bad for Trump and his folks. Are we got if we got if we could have been lagging well, let I got sick, say something nice to me, nor do oh

daddy bought up so that I can translate that your beard is very beautiful and I mean I won't I first saw you today, we ve met earlier about you're thinking. I was like all his beard looks great where there was the That's not my dad thought now. If you could play any Trump character in the troubled administration man afford Cohen, whoever like who to be. Take a play any of your movie here, yeah, oh, my god. This is actually very exciting. I dont want to be men afore. I think colonies very interesting because he's a scumbag I feel like now we kind of want to be like a cones, a good guy. He thought is so bad. He still your bad pay, they play you. I know you're not in that, but I guess if, if it's a movie about

but I'm playing you. I just get fired in the beginning, rights, everybody else, it's like being the person of color and STAR Trek. We lost that guy on the planet, the unless you're blind you're gonna die. That's a majority la forge. I think it's, the wrong kind of these guys need to go get a drink, so I have a couple of minutes to anyone, but out for We have a round of applause for our friend. Thank you, like you very much, so I always in the park ass with or mostly in the package, with something the news it struck me and I've been saving. This for a couple of weeks, knowing that was gonna, be here and allay, and couple weeks ago. A very famous, very influential

in writer and novelist passed away, William Goldman, whose breadth of work is stunning amazing over the course. Decades- and you won't know what you have some of the biggest things that he did- he's responsible for the princess bride, he's responsible for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid he's responsible for all the president's men he's responsible. Also given that movie for the is that people refer to prosecutors using all the time follow the money. The phrase follow the money and, if you know was actually not in the word and Bernstein Book or the press spend that was inserted by William government into the screenplay and it's become common parlance in America and in every day you hear about that you might be wondering what what why does it have any meaning? For me, I thought two reasons why Billy and was meaningful to me one. When I was a young associate law firm here twenty years ago, I didn't like it very much

although I like the law and I had this fleet ambition that maybe I would write a screen play some people on there try they get nominated for an academy award. I never made very far right, but I bought a book by Bill Goldman called choosing the screen trade to the best books it I've ever read in any genre so, even though I never made it as a screenwriter. That book always stayed with me and ass began to write my own book about justice and how justice is done. Based on some of my experiences, you might be surprised to learn That one of the books are used as my model in my inspiration in a completely different field to books. Actually, one bill governs book adventures in this green trade and second he wrote about how this will you tell stories called which did I tell which is not in fact the title for the autobiography Donald Trump. it was a book. He wrote about, screen, writing and it's hard to do,

just do it in a minute there in those books were models for me is, I think, Bill Goldman. Neatly among screenwriters of his generation or any generation, stood. Sort of course, to what we have been talking about, that you persuade people and explain to people about life, not just through statistics and data and argument or even philosophy, but through depictions of real people. In. Ways that you can relate to explain the universe and the world the persuasion happens through stories, and some of the thing I tried to achieve in the book is till the stories of how and about making some of the cases we So I literally when I want inspiration to try to push forward and write another paragraph or another chapter of my book. I didn't pick up a lottery this. I didn't pick up a crime book, William governments books because he's when the greatest storytellers of our time,

so William Goldman rest in peace. God bless you and I love you. that's it for this purpose. Go to stay tuned for more My conversation with Camille Non jihadi gotta carried out, slash insider and become a member. We talk about it, now become Baxter racist comments, the brave We have lame duck republicans in what he's working on next to listen to them part of the interview, gotta carried out, slash insider and become a member. You can also access my cafe insider pie, cast coasted by animal grim and more that's Cathay, dotcom slashed inside thanks again to my guest male non Johnny and the audience at the Wheelchair EVIL Theatre, in LOS Angeles, if you like the show, rate and reviewed and Apple podcast ever positive er, you helped new listeners vine, the show tenure questions about news and politics through them to me,

reaper art with a hashtag asprey, or give me a call at six hundred and sixty nine, two hundred and forty seven, seven thousand three hundred and thirty, eight at six, six thousand nine hundred and twenty four or you can send an email to stay tuned. A CAFE Dhaka statement is presented by Catholic. Its produced by cat and the team Pineapple Street Media Henry Velocity Joel levelled Generalise Burma's and mackerel in these areas, deserve a cafe Mister Merrick, separate in a cafe teams: Julia Doyle, Cowden Lord today basking in government or music he's my hundred dust, I'm prepared era stay tuned.