From CAFE, and the Vocs media pack has network welcome to stay too. I'm free Pereira, and I think there is a lot that must be done to teach students that tab network is not self love, and you have to worry about society at large in all, companies have limited liability because they all society of duty of care, but some hope is not forgotten the duty of care path. in renewing she's, the former ceo and chair, a Pepsico bunny. She led for twelve years in that time she may waves through her initiatives to transform the company's human and environmental impacts knew he was the first woman of color and immigrant to run a fortune. Five hundred company she's, been ranked among Forbes is most powerful women multiple times, and just last year was inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame.

she's, also, unsurprisingly, the best selling author, here she wrote her memoirs, my life and for work family and our future. We talk about moving to the United States from India, the importance of corporate citizenship and how to improve the workplace for families. That's coming up stay tuned. This episode is brought to buy windows eleven and Intel get the power to work with more speed and quickly arrange your desktop with snap assist windows eleven any Intel EVIL platform make working from wherever better revokes Some of you may have heard the news that my new children's book is now out. It's called justice is the book as a kind of guide for young truth seekers. It showcases trailblazers throughout history, from Frederick Douglass and I'd be wells to Malalai Soft.

and John Louis and its illustrated by Sukarno, said to bring them to life on every page. I'm donating all my proceeds from the book to the New York legal assistance group. A leading civil legal services organization that advocates for people experiencing poverty or who are in crisis had to justice is book. Dot com to buy your copy of justice is for the budding leaders of tomorrow. Now, let's get to your questions question comes from twitter user, hullo, bunny, great name how much need to anticipate what legal challenges a target may raise before you issue the charges like a chess game, or do you plough forward with a plan and react to the challenges as they raise them and then hula bunny your comments, I imagine any charges against trump- require a lot of anticipation of his counter moves. So that's great question and that I suppose

in certain jurisdictions, where there is an on the scene, arrest and charges are brought, particularly by DA's offices. you have to charge right away, then you should see what challenges arise as they unfold. But in my experience, the southern district of New York and federal cases in the kind of case that may ultimately be built against someone. My Donald Trump that's complicated. It happens over time, and that requires a good deal of investigation. You absolutely focus on and anticipate the legal challenges and legal defences in advance of bringing the charges. In fact, I think, would be irresponsible not to- and this happens in many contexts. For example, in my during overseeing the case against the terrorist named augments carlini. There is the question about whether not certain statements made during his time, one time Bay, Cuba might be suppressed in gun cases. There often issues of suppression, And sometimes those legal arguments are quite compelling and you have to take it into account before we decide to charge. In some of the cases that you are familiar with, that we talked about in the past

and on the insider parkers with Joyce, for example, the case against the it of the monetary I'm certain the prosecutors thought deep and hard about the Self defense defence of those folks made the correct determination that that wasn't a viable defence. If the jury was thinking about it properly, brought their charges intact. It's not just anticipation. tickler legal arguments, but the shape and form of the defence narrative. In fact, I was taught when I was a junior prosecutor that unity consider and anticipate what gonna, say information and rebuttal. Even before You finish, writing the charging document, so I would put together the facts for purposes by showing them for an indictment or a complaint. would keep a running document of arguments. I would make two about the arguments that I anticipated. The defence would make an in fact, often in meetings when people were presented case, to me and there were significant enough for me the way and on ice Then, let's have interesting. Can you home a few bars

of your summation- I think that strengthens the charge. That's the responsible thing to do and that's how I think good prosecutors go about doing their job The Spectre, Donald Trump if there is ever gonna, be a charge that relates to his conduct, ungenerous, sixth and the days Up to January six as one example, a defence and legal challenge will be, he was engaged in normal political speech depending on what other evidence there is, that's a legitimate defence argument and before anyone, whether to deal J or anyplace else decides to the charge against AL trumpet amassing there ever will be. You have to consider the case law? The president, the organ? about that. First amendment defence, certainly not once you get to trial you home and refine and craft your arguments in response to the arguments made by the defence, but you actually have to consider in advance, if you can.

This question comes in a tweet from Mary MAD Dog, another great name Mary mad dog asks. What, if any, are the legal ramifications of all the trim said in last week's Texas Rally, I will limit myself to the Texas Rally, but trump has said thing. In writing in statements that is put out and at the rally that in combination, I think, are not insignificant. A key issue in holding down Trump accountable for the insurrection of January sixth hinges upon and what his state of mind was what he wanted: those people to do and so some of the evidence is the speech he gave on one six? Some of it is his inaction. Four hundred and eighty seven minutes when people were overtaking the capital chanting, hang my pants looking for Nancy Pelosi trying to overturn the election. That has been the focus. of everyone's interest when someone down Trump puts out a statement- and

is essentially MIKE. Pence should have indulged trumps. Words overturned the election, that's where the now down from his adopted that in many people's minds look into an admission that that was what he wanted and that, central, important his state of mind when he made the key, whence he made on January. Sixth. Similarly, when said on January six, that he law the insurrectionists. He said I love you. That was an indication. that they did what he wanted them to do. We have further proof of this when you hear Donald Trump dangling explicitly the possibility and indeed likelihood that if he gets elected president again and twenty twenty four, he will pardon the insurrectionists. That is a data point for people to argue that on the day of January six, he wanted them to do exactly what they did. That's not great for him as further evidence that he wanted my pants to overturn the elect.

Kia suggested the pain should be investigated for not doing what Donald Trump wanted him to do. So you take all these things together, overturn the election. Pardon insurrectionists, investigate MIKE Pence protest. If Donald Trump was indicted, which is sort of a repeat of one hundred and sixty one to be advocating for you put that altogether. It dispositive know, is it the thing that gets you over the finish line with respect to a charge against Donald Trump will probably not but you added to all of the other actions and communications and statements, and you get a pretty good picture of what I'll drop one. You are also by the way to the evidence of town Trump was personally involved in the plan for three different cabinet agencies to seize voting machines, although you didn't end up doing that and you combine it with his calls to Georgia, state elections, officials, you put all of that together, you start to get a pretty thick portrait, it would Donald Trump wanted and what he wanted was an insurrection to overturn the election. So the choir

As you know, who's. Looking aside from the Fulton County District attorney in Georgia, what is Deirdre doing, but certainly prosecutors would be paying attention to this day. You always pay attention to the statements of a target, vitally important, statute, there's more coming up after this If you are in the business of selling anything there's one thing: that's a pretty sure bet you'd like to sell more of it. That applies to the pie. Shops on main street and multinational businesses selling goods all over the world. There all to connect with customers and supercharged growth and they'd all be wise to start using shop. Afire shop of fires and all in one commerce platform that makes running in growing every a business easier than ever before shop. If I finally give small businesses the same tools

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there seems to be nothing in renewing can't do The former ceo and share of Pepsico New is also the author of the New York Times best selling memoir my life in full. In it she described. to experience, moving to the states being a woman of color in corporate Amerika and the complicated task. Balancing home and work life, Renewing welcome to the show it took it to have. You read the young. Thank you for having Absolutely long overdue, you have had a legendary career in the corporate world in philanthropy and also other things, and we congratulate you on your book that recently came out called my life in full work, family and our future. Did you have fun putting up together or was it hard work? It's a tremendous amount of work. Anybody contemplating

a book should be ready for months and months and months of hard work to get the book right because this is not a novel. Norway easy looking book, it's a book with stories supported by his tree, lessons derive from it. So it requires a lot of thinking and not of planning to get this book. Just right says a lot of work, beer, I'm sure there was the case when I wrote my book as well, so I often wonder what makes people successful and often something from their use, I wonder if the following, you credit, would say your success. You tell the story of how, at the dinner table your file Their made you and your brother gave a speech I don't know every night or some knights were many nights in which he does hey did you as a president of a country or the prime minister or a minister from a country, and you had to take a position and then he would vote can. Can you tell us about that?

and how that may have effected. You're late arise I think this is my mother at dinner. She would make the two daughters do that soldier motherland down. You know this was just how we'll living life my came to us because she never went to college and had she going to college in progressed further. She would have been see. Oh she's just super efficient and smart, but she's in the because, on the one hand, she'd say if you were chiefly to what would you do? If you will, Prime Minister, what You know whenever she embarked on this particular line of questioning was a different leader. at the same time she'd say, but I will It's a matter of eighteen. I hope you can dream because you don't know one hand she had to put on the accelerator was said: dream big. Does anybody can the other hand. We live in a society where people expect the elders to get the young girls meditating. So I feel you know feel for her because she was dealing with the break and accelerate.

but the end of the day, the accelerator one out and we will allow to dream dream big. And they enabled it to that's great, any particular leaders who speeches you gave snow speeches, rules I mean now. We were naive and kids at that time, so are frame of reference is fairly marrow, but women ass to be Prime Minister of the country or chief minister, a country? Interestingly chief ministers? Job always but make sure what is available in powers available if those water was not available in the draft that time so to speak. Always be about, how I will make sure that what is available it interesting how your frame of reference and how you look at these leaders is nicely based on what your boy thrown a day to day basis, which actually has a broader lesson for today too, because. you can't look at leaders in a very locked away. You gotta look at it.

through the eyes of the public who are struggling, all have great needs and I'm looking to leaders to solve those problems. I asked you just before we started taping You were busy, which I realise that a silly question to ask someone like you, because you said yes and then I asked you. Has there ever been a time in your life when you were not busy, and you said no and then you said well, maybe I need to think about figuring out away be lazy. Like me, I said I have a dream. I'm generally as you, but I do have a lazy jeanne. You enjoy vacations law. I dont that's a pie. That's a remarkable thing to say this is I think, anytime, I go on vacations, my dream to just sit in the hotel room, reading a book on the balcony, if a hotel reading a book, My is my family says: why do we come to an exotic place for you to sit in the balcony reading a book you might as well stay home in reality,

If you really want me to go on a vacation, I just like to stay home. Read it. I dont know why that's who I am I are allowed to read. I love to expand. my brain all the time, and this may be one of the fatal forces I have. I dont know what downtime is about and down I'm wired, but you're not unhappy you're, happy working. I'm I'm through working in fact of- gives me alive, but I'm wire differently. So I'm always extra, bring I'm always reading, I'm always trying to look at footnotes and figure out what it says. I have no idea why feet so when you are on vacation Even when you receive chair a Pepsico, how often did you call the office? Ah, I always bent on vacation the bags of reading up and down in a form that called three or four times a day, at least- and this is

obsession. I was just a kind of a seal and I thought that if somebody needed me, I had to be available for them at every point in time, so I always went than several bags of man. I read it all. I came back so a reinvigorated because I'm not caught up behind them Sylvie Sylvie. Let's talk about sleep, I will move on to other things. It's not surprising for me to learn that Europe pattern of sleep involves very little of it, that, throughout your career, you work all day. You sleep for five hours, then, for a time you play tennis, and then get to the office and that's always been my sense of things for very busy and successful people that didn't sleep very much Bob lately been asking other successful guests on the show, how much they sleep and I've been surprised to hear how many of them say eight hours, do you think they're fitting.

I'm having a doves of good among time to sleep. It Tom helps the body repair itself and you might actually better. Three dollars was too, but they also say this about one or two percent of people around the world gotta genetic malfunction where they cannot sleep. So typically, they try to sleep early and then forced herself to sleep cycling. My vote is a good, I'm gonna sleep a whole night when I wake up and I I used to have fresh look at the clock. Is eleven thirty, an online, oh, my god, what Gonna do till the morning so like counting sheep, from eleven thirteen, the need to build three or four in the morning, and I give up. I have no idea. I honestly believe that there's one thing I have to learn its re learn how to go to sleep. That's that's something I am committed to do. What's interesting is the second time now for some we talked about in your ear.

Not loving vacation, your addiction to work? And now your failure to sleep very much? You characterize it as a flaw in something you need to fix, even though your fairly late in your career why don't you instead think of it as a benefit or an advantage or something that helped you Well, all of those things you know you could have interpreted as invisible colleagues or you could say, that's what keeps Indra alive and active on the other hand, everything on reading these days says that for the body to be healthy through your life, however long it is it requires a thousand sleep so that the cells repair themselves and rejuvenate themselves, so I'm going with signs creep and if the science, it says that I need it also Streep about an inch my way to eight hours. So, if I can add an hour every three or four months, I've done something wonderful. I will have you know how that goes

You can help me out. Also, you like me, were in India and came to United States. I came very young. You came after college right in You say something somewhere that I found interesting. You said at some point: you got the american bug. What is that, I knew of the seventies I graduated from college in nineteen. Seventy one then went on to adjust customs pleasure from high school went of adverse Christine collars than I am confident that the six I graduated a lot of my class this with an eye to use all the items left and went to the? U S, because at that time everything we ve heard about the? U S was excited the? U S was the center of culture, music, innovation inventions- it was,

When I talk to see anybody could grow and five and have your dreams fulfilled, and every one of the people that I knew that came to the. U S always rolled back saying this is two different environment, then a newly emerging India and people kept him and you belong here. You ve got to come here. After one that infection solid grabs you because people writing to constantly saying you ve gotta come here, so you get infected with a bug and you say I want to go and see what is like there besides to listen to the american music and loved. It read all about down the greatness of american Court of the American Constant Library and read all the books there the magazines and then ultimately, I made my way to the? U S by you and I must say everything that people told me then was true as it is today. You tell a great story in your book and I quote from it

you said quote, I believe in the american story, because it is my story As a ceo, I once sat in the eighteenth century, would paneled dining room checkers the british Prime Minister's country manner and was asked why I had emigrated thirty years earlier, to the: U S and not the UK. You responded because Mr Prime Minister, I wouldn't be sitting lunching with you. If I come to the UK, what did you mean by that? Well I honestly believe, then, as I do now, yours too, one of the most welcome in countries and a real meritocracy and are really my background on my message. You didn't really matter as long as I delivered and people mental being pushed me, long at that time when I was looking at the UK. I didn't see many people like me in senior petitions, see your positions? Silence I believe that I haven't you.

go to lunch with the Prime Minister check those under because I see you're a large company in the? U S and job I would not have attained that position. Had I come to the United Kingdom, so I was being honest and telling him back in He paused for a moment. I thought for a while and said you're probably right, and we ought to do something about it. Do you think for yours is as welcoming as it used to be I think so I think, if you look around the world, there's been a protectionism. that's invaded almost every country and relative to every country in the world. I would argue that the you I would observe that the EU s still the most welcoming country, because if you come here and you contribute, you still are given the opportunity to progress. But what about him on the issue of immigration? Do you worry that there's some anti immigration sentiment in the? U S that was not present before. I think most the anti immigration sentimentalists from my perspective is all you know the elite.

immigration, that people are reacting to very, very talented people who want to contribute to the country. I think there is still a very, very good welcoming environment for them. Who is your favorite product? The Pepsico made Several I'd say I was a huge consumer lays potato chips because I'm going to let you know, I'm Superman most a mammal shock that your answering, because I would thank you would say I love all my children, but I'm glad I'm glad you know. I love all my children, but this is one where I do have some favorites. I grew up with my mom making potato chips on buying from the local store. Then you ve got a bag of lays uniform quality greatest uniform crunch and you fall in love with the product leads to me was that the goals, tenet of potato chips and on beverages orange soda that sold outside they want is to combat, hinder. That's my favorite.

It has an unusual taste that appeals to my power. And so a laser Miranda together a sort of heaven for me, You- and I have talked about this. You were kind enough to invite me. What book of in a few months ago and the most interesting fact now learn a lot of interesting facts. The most interesting fact I learned maybe was that, at least at the present time a bag lays potato chips has less salted and a slice of white bread. He explained how that's possible So when we talk of a bag of Ladys, don't think of his gigantic bag of maize. He was right to a single serve bag of these small bag which people buying, Install and Egypt, as they walk around the big differences that salt and amazed potato chips, surface solid salt in our wider

slice is solved useful evening? So you need a minimum amount of salt and that white bread in order for it to rise and be fluffy. What our scientists did with the song was applied the sole crystals in a way that spread. The solemn ships are not densely, but even I also went to smaller crystal structure for the sound so that you get that those If something is a new mout, but you don't, even though not of salt We like you eating salty snack, such as a scientific through the crowd. Technologists managed to pull off going to smaller, crystals and spreading among differently on the surface of the chip you know, got you. The Sultan is without too much. So that's why a single so bang of leaves has less salt. Then a slice of white bread

I think you need to market that little bit better, because I think that's it. That's a fascinating fact, but his maybe a dumb question. Why bother? Why bother to make that change when I tell you something The girl was known for making what I call a for your products, products and historically had high levels of fat, sugar and salt. We also need better for you, two zero cattle. You products, albeit laser big dog ruffles. We also make good food products like Tropicana breaker violence is believed that even the fund for EU products, if we could deliver those points but less fat, sugar and salt, that's just being more responsible, so a few things we good was reduced to sugar levels in full sugar Pepsi in many countries. In the time I started the time I left there was something like twenty to twenty five percent. Less sugar and a blue can achieve an upright. still tasted great similarly on, lays, reduces

alt level still enjoy the product, but if America has held crisis, why not contribute to improving the quality of the food system? Distant and so these were implemented, changes be kept, making and hoping that that would stories taught improving the overall quality of products we put out in the marketplace Because when you are making these plans to produce products that were a little bit healthier was that, because there is an ambition, a little bit to nudge people to more helpful food, or an anticipation that that's where the market was going and you didn't want to be left behind were both a little bit about. I think when we want you to nudge people to healthier offerings or too often things that had zero can agree or had positive nutrition. We put the better for you good for you, products at high levels

about. They knew that those products, but also available over great tasting and prized exactly like the fund for you products, but the bigger challenge for us was to take these highly optimized fund for EU products. Delays the readers the policy the Mount do and say. How can we maintain the greatest? Had she wrote, tastes deterioration slowly, take down the sole fattened sugar and down. You know if we thought the consumer walk away from the product because even used any of these on a solid fattened sugar levels, have they treated the product formula differently when we realise that by slowly taking down the levels, who can actually have no taste degradation, get the consumer. Used to slow, exciting one thousand one a level of salt and still offer great products,

This was a desire to just produce a better pipeline of products for the american consumer. Crossbow I mean. Actually consumers across the world was really push back within certain segments of the company. not been people taste of the product and the breath is fantastic. You shown themselves less salt does. Did you do blind, taste, tests, a lot triangular testing. Typically, what happens when you take the baseball up, and then you take the product with slightly less salt. I sometimes fifty fifty people can guess waters which, but if you did a triangular, best, where you have three products. Two of them on the same one is different. People have a tough time telling them apart certain triangular tests are people could tell him about which was fantastic. It would occurs to me that Pepsico makes one products. When you see your chair having different products, was the company putting out

oh globally, we must have had twenty fifty three hundred brands, but we had twenty two events with more than a billion dollars, the retail says each. Then we had another ten or fifteen rounds of more than six on fifty million dollars of retail also the company was a young. phenomenon branded products, company and I'd say perhaps one of the best marketing companies in the world and so on in the consumer products? Peace? If you wanted to be in marketing and product management, Pepsico was the place because it was useful, was exciting, try all kinds of new things and Did I used you, someone got younger. Women came to Pepsico, but the recent asking the question is you the head of a cup, it puts out actual products is not software is not one product. Did you feel a need to, or did you try everything, Pepsico made, I would say

the numbers go like this, you ve been a typical strategies session or a visit to wander divisions. over two or three days for anyone business. It is possible that I will do fifty different products off. Forty five words rejected them goober it goes back and get rejected and if I go to the UK or Mexico's something today's my taste, twenty five thirty products and snags and another ten products and beverages. So your constantly tasting constantly, but not just our products, will constantly buying competitors, products than opening bags and looking at them. packaging living at the parlor tasting it. So this is a big food fast, it's fantastic, This is why you're not sleeping under. I figured it out drinking Pepsi all day long, then you're not going to sleep is well its product of every kind of suspects.

was there was a time that you, this is a random question that you tried a product that your company made. You didn't like it Mary, you didn't care for it, but everyone else it. It was terrific and was popular. Did you have to experience? I tell Contra Tumblr dimes I'd tribe, and I'd, say I don't you I don't like it, but then people. Look just show you all the consumer tests. It's come out extremely! the delay so tender. You can't be as to your taste buds and decide the border guards him. You know you're right, go in and launch it and.

I had to say this, I would say more than half the time you were right. I may have been right. I may have been right so, but you know this is done on the great thing about consumer products. Is that the cost of failure to locate, and so you can afford, tried things in a small market on a small country and if it fails bulletin that launched the next fallen? So this is not a high cost, launching a failure, user particular failure that sit with you. There is the failure of the computer some years ago, with new coke. if you like that, but you were calling your tenure in and what you learn from it. Well, you know one of the things I say that it took a long time to launch was sparkling water companies like Lacroix, that had a sparkling flavoured water and we were very late to the table but when we launched bubbly in two thousand and sixteen or seventeen are today,

when a billion dollar brand eyes. Just that terms will lead to the game and die, The reason we are led to the game is because we look at the competitors port Can we say it's not the perfect cases, not passing all consumer tests. So till we get the bottom right memo would not allow us to launch products but then relaunch it. We do downward job. Now as a leader, I look you're goin that business is getting to have billion dollar guys what's wrong with you? Why don't we have a product and I go crazy, but then the team is usually right. We have to get the point of light. we'll be right back with more of my conversation within renewing after this, today's podcast is brought. By Hydro, a state of the art rowing machine designed to transform where you work out and

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that's h, why D, R, o w dot com and for a limited time you can use code pre, one hundred for one hundred dollars off the road I'm having Cox Richardson an angel in Freeman, where the hosts of now and then a weekly podcast, looks to the American Pass to make sense of our current political and cultural climate, there's been a wave of headlines recently about book bands. School boards and state governments are trying to outlaw the teaching of books that they find objectionable from arts people. mouse to Tony Morrison's bluest. I this way On now and then we're releasing the first episode of a three part series, the series will dive deep into past book. Panics explore why public,

school so often become ideological battle grounds and dissect. The interplay between book bands and political bullying join us as we can to make sense of the role that bans have played in our national culture and explain why We're seeing so many bands today listen for free on Apple CAFE come or wherever you get your podcast. When you were ceo, did you think of yourself as a seal? Who happens to be a woman, or did you think yourself, there was something about being a woman that made you a different kind of seo. Perhaps, but I think that I viewed myself as a seal and I said The fact that I am a woman, I'm gonna, be scrutinised more I'm going to be written about a lot more. I wanna rejoiced when I failed, because they told me that we're gonna live two out of that. you fall down. There's a bigger, a fall and the biggest story side here at all

stuff, and so I knew that I, the attention of a lot of people, also because I was perhaps the only woman who ran a fortune. Fifty companies that caused a focus my leaderships, Thailand, the company, I think I wasn't decided, I was going to change who I was I'm an empathetic person who's. Also top. I love my people or, while I also hold them type of phone ended, and so I didn't change my style. I kept running the company without remaking myself as a completely new powers, and so on people love. on Monday we should stop. People commented on my dressing. People commented on everything about me. The challenges to stay the course and do the job. what was the toughest thing about being sent you on such an only job, because you know there's a problem every day,

faith and suddenly the problems come to you right now, not only but largely where the good things you rejoice about, but the problems no, you agonising over and people. Like me doubly worry about these. lives and so on when problems happened, because it's a big company right and this some issue in some parts of the world every day every other day, and you can't really come home and talk about all the issues because at some point your family goes God we just tired of hearing only, and so if you want Have a harmonious family life. You ve got a part some of these problems and come home in a light. Hearted. I tried to do that. Sometimes I talk about it, my husband, but even here the job and how much can you listen to my problems? And so you can't talk about it to your appears, because there are no appears. When you see you, you can't talk to you about today,

bosses and you can talk about the other seals because in a financial disclosure who say you can't shared too much, especially their own pepsico, and you're, not gonna meet anybody say: do you own Pepsico store if you don't, I want to share something with you, so happens. Is you start internalize nor the stuff you talk to yourself and then why they say see. You have to have resilience credible resilience

We ve gotta be able to shoulder all of these issues and power through that. It helps to have the support of family in support of group of people around you, but at the end of the day, the bulk of the issues that you have to do it you have to do with it yourself. So that's a good subway to talking about work. The nature of work, work, life, family balance, whether that's changing with the proper balances, and you tell a story about one of your daughters who once wrote you a note, and you say you still keep it in your desk drawer, because you were working alone, as you always did, and you say on a big she

of construction paper decorated with flowers and butterflies. She begged me to come home and a note says quote: I will love you again. If you would please come home and the word, please is spelled out seven times how'd, you feel when you got that note. I am always breaks your heart. I mean vague to your heart because the kitten the time to write this, I'm leaving for you I'll, give it to you and you read this and you go what kind of a man like you know? It's a tough one, prepare tell you had I quit the job and stayed home. I to my kids would have been happy to have Mama run or that I don't know, I just don't know I don't know if I would have been a good mom. Just angle, I dont know goes on as wide a certain way. I tried to be the best mother. I could

I may not have been around all the time, but I will tell you when the kids needed me. I was always there and I mean look. I give my kids. If they have the flu, I would run home from the office three four times a day just to get in the medicines whatever. Irrespective of which other family members, but them. So I was a very involved mother. I was the school board. I never missed a single body. Trust is meeting never missed a single mother, daughter, liturgy and so except one? I think I was a good involved mother but I was always travelling all busy with worth reading, as

my kids would say more. Why do you still have homework because that's the job, so you manage it in some way, but, as you point out in the book and as you said many times publicly, there are too few women seers. Why is that? Still the case and twenty twenty two having first funding, but it look at the pyramid- let's just taken something like Pepsico another about fifteen, twenty thousand people in managerial positions around the world. By the time you get to the sea or minus one, there's fifteen people and from there one person gets to be seen So the tyranny of the numbers is that the pit the narrow, so damn much, but you ve got to rise up to the top. Not just by doing your job well but also keeping up with all the changes technology around? U business!

this around you, the world around you and somehow emerging to be the best person to move to the next level. So it's a real tough small to get the top and, if you're trying to then balance family and work in this pyramid, that's narrowing. It gets to be very, very difficult unless you have a fantastic support structure at home and you have the courage and the resilience the bandwidth to be able to make the journey. I think many men have a fantastic supposed tat your time in terms of their wives. Many of the women don't have the supposed structure, especially if they want a family and want to have kids, which many people want to and is very gratifying and fulfilling experience. Many companies don't provides,

support structures for family builders. So what is the woman supposed to do now? I will tell you, in today's world pushed forward the evolution of all these technologies, remote working technologies, the smartphone has been a game. Changer are the fact that you can face time text Are you not faced on video? You can use zoo. Whatever these tools are makes a huge difference. You cut down your travel. You can interact with your office from home. You can interact with your kids. Why a technology, those didn't exist, then some actually more optimistic about the future. To say that what was a grand juggle between so many things that had to get done with technology can actually be a balance. Balanced life I optimistic about the future and I really believe that this is gonna, give women a chance to do so. How make it all work?

and the only big issue that has not been addressed is how do we get men to think about the wrong as equal partners and family developing nurturing As opposed to say, families females, your problem, the more we get men to the table, You say we want linen and help bring up the family, nor to the family and- Any sort of family is an equal partnership between the husband and wife. I think that will be good times. It wasn't my kids. What about the role of companies? You talk about the three pillars. What should companies do more of and better to help families its companies? Governments is to me It is it's all of them, because if you do know only eighteen and twenty percent of people are employed in corporate Amerika. But let's talk with America. I think that paid leave, something that

should be thought of as a human issue, not a political issue. We need to do their job flexibility because of covert. We ve all learned what job flexibility is, but we'll talk, but that the second and the third is a cat infrastructure critically important to allow all talented people to come to work and for families to be created. Now the big challenge breed- and this is something we

is not being talked about as we talk about a cat infrastructure in the past when I was running Pepsi, for we put a child care center, either on site or new cycle offices in today's world. If people are gonna work flexibly, sheep childcare centres being communities where people live, not necessarily the office should have been a poor working buildings near where you live. I think in the next year or to a lot of discussion, has to happen about the workforce, the workplace, the fugitive work, but thinking through, we should be looking at all the support structures and how we gonna pay the child care workers a living wage so that they can actually look upon. These jobs is good

jobs as opposed to subsistence job, for they have to take a second job working a grocery store. Starbucks has a lot of discussion that needs to happen now on flexible hours. I think there's the wonderful thing about covert flexibilities becoming the norm, but I want to tell you that there is a problem with flexibility too. We have to make sure we don't create two classes of citizens. One group that comes to work and one dozen does not because the people who come to work shouldn't defined the culture and the people were flexibly be left out. Second, is There are many jobs where you do need people to come into a three days weeks, so that you can develop people you can get no them, as human being too can see we're gonna leave of skills. They have so, I hope the next two or three years are next to your that's enough,

fears. Seals are doing all kinds of experiments in different parts of the companies to see. What's the best way to think about the future, the workplace do support legislation requiring people which is the Norman in many many other western countries, industrialized countries. yes, and no, I think that what we have to think through the most difficult aspect to think through what those small and medium sized enterprises do for paid leave you, These employing ten people and to people have to leave because their illness, the family are. One of them, is having a child. How is the small and medium sized enterprise, which is where the bulk of our employees work? How are they supposed to keep their job open and pay for this person to be absent? Slighting preached in all our countries, known for innovative thinking.

We even got a telescope up in space tourists. I study, satellites and pilots way out in the universe. If we can do that, I think we can get a group of people sit down and say what do we need to do for small and medium sized enterprises to be able to put in place paid leave to me? That's what needs to be solved when it comes to companies and paid leave big corporations and vainly it's a no brainer and how much paid leave should be offered. I would say I would start with the twelve weeks for maternal maternity or pretended to get whatever you want, but that's just tables thinks we just have to look at this as a humanist. I'm a product of paid leave. When my father, There was dying of cancer. I was given baby. I was given paid leave my two kids bus and when I was in a car accident, but in every case I came back and I wasn't even more dedicated employment. I was before I left on paid leave

and so I think we view it as a human issue, and we don't say this is something people want exploit, just go forth. If we don't have fortunate that they actually think paid leave can be a great attention to on a great way to keep a great, employ based working, fail. Company deputy offer twelve weeks yeah and you think all companies should of a certain size vision. Look at it very, very hard. I want to talk to about corporate citizenship is a complicated issue. You talk about the role of companies in part to make society better, and I want to read my first broad general question. Amalgam more specific is what is the proper balance with respect to a good sized company doesn't have to be as large as Pepsico bouncing attend

into the bottom line, verses, a better country or world. We see that suddenly a choice. So let me give you an example: let's say: there's a company, a small or medium sized company that has to dump a whole bunch of chemicals in his effluent stream from the company if its focus on the bottom line dams, those chemicals in the local canal saves money terms too, and stream there and generates a fantastic work done for the shareholders. Who's gonna pay for all those people are gonna, get poisoned by those chemicals. All right, but not example. That's a short. strategy and the General Council of the company will tell you that's not it. idea when it comes to future liability. Well, Just tell you, many companies do that you're. Even today, General Council not withstand

yeah so happens today were people should listen to their general councils more on behalf of all lawyers and must show every General council was likely browser. I think there are many gentle councils to help your navigate these issues. How is a lot of it? So I think the best is the tip of the iceberg at every point. Let us think about plastics when regenerate plastics, if we don't pick up the plastic incredibly closed, loop he's plastics are gonna work, the land. So today's landfill somebody's foundation tomorrow, so we have to think very very hard about what will be. What is the impact to society of our actions and if you think that way, I think will actually do different things and make decisions decisions as a company. Now I will tell you if you say: I'm just gonna make money any which I'm going put paid to the metal, make all the money I can and guess what the foundation in my company that gives bunny to some charitable organization, there's a place for them.

Two! That's giving away the money you make All I'm saying is companies or to rethink how they make the money, how they make the money and think about every aspect of their support, Jane and say I am I doing the right thing. I mean the best examples of sourcing, because forcing from a country where this child labour is prevalent. I'm not an overnight changes, sourcing how'd! You won't that country and work with them to see. have you send their children to school? I do each of the family gets an income than those children are not working but make sure that you put it. Those standards that Austin autumn is with good companies into that country.

Brains in America and around the world doing enough on the issue of climate change, I think the noise and the actions of companies that have actually stepped up in the last few years, I'm seeing actual progress in this area. People are talking about it more, maybe because of these two investor, maybe because seals are getting more aware and conscious of the issues but I'm seeing more action from corporate Amerika the last two or three years, further to my earlier question about corporate responsibility and again No, I know you're gonna say that these are not choices, but there's a lot of stakeholders. You have the shareholders, you have employees you have customers, you have society you think a ceo of those different constituencies. that's what makes a see your job so difficult and so exciting, because the show,

it gets a return because you focus on all of the other stakeholders. We didn't have customers, there's no shelter return, if you don't have. Employees is no shelled return, but you can't keep growing at the experts to those people. So let me give you one example a brief, and this is something that you are to my heart. If you look at a lot of medical systems today, there being bought up by private equity, which is granting, I love private equity, their great force for growth and innovation, but then you cut costs, you cut costs, you cut costs, you deliver a great shoulder return. What happens to those patients when I was the service to people who needed the most. So I think if you don't serve the customer right, all your shoulder returns are short term and at some point you gonna find of customers just leave you or worse to society's daily badly off, because you enriched a few shareholders, and so I think that every point

time, you ve got it tell yourself without customers without consent, whose without society without communities without suppliers without employees, you dont have a company. This phenomenon people had been referred to, as the greek resignation Blue, give any comment about that. conclusion about that. The key thing is not to talk, but the great resignation as a one job of people. I mean we throughout these numbers of three million people have left to four million people are met as break down into pieces. I think, is about ten or fifteen percent of the people, who are not really great resignation, but the great redeployment they ve.

We have to do things they always wanted to do. I think there's another supplies which is still struggling covered their ill. They haven't come back to the woods, but I think sixty to seventy percent of the great reservations. People just don't know how to vote to work, because the pay is not good. They dont have childcare, they think working condition. things are not conducive for them to just go and work and then come back totally dream and unable to take out the families, and so I think we have to worry about this group of people who so hospitality, The kid in the stream and critical industries that make the quality of life possible. Tat, I think, is very important. The slices of this repressive and really focus down to, for example, the spawning. I saw the article on versus the number of nurses, that of quit, because you say just can do it can do so

we have to go sliced past life and asked the question what's causing them to quit. What do we need to do for them and how do we bring them back to the wall I think we're in an economy where we could actually get down to two or three percent unemployment. If we can support our employees the right way and not grew on the backs of the essential Do you think we're teaching the right things in american business schools? Fellow that's about it. I still have actually been what we should. We should talk about the fact we put it on the table that you went to the eel school of management. You have endowed the dean ship there. I blew the danger. in your name and- and I will also say that, based on my experience not to offend other business schools, I have experienced speaking it at many top business schools. I feel there is a greater interest.

At the school of management generally than some other schools in public interest, and not everyone just jumps into finance. So without preface now answer the question, I actually believe that business college occasion is badly in need of a real up and down in a business that education is fantastic. The two years you go, there ah teaches you so much and you go in ass, a student to come out of business executive. So it teaches you a lot, but business school education has moved much in the last decade or so, and I think there is a lot that needs to be done to teach students that arm in arm network is not self, but that you have to worry about society He had large. You know all companies have limited liability because they all society a duty of care, but somehow people are forgotten. The duty of care, part

I'm down there also gotta be taught that problems some complex early, when we do cases in business circles, we raise two cases be raised through them. We never pause and submit study this peaceful tubes one we brings. ahead of the environmental, any Sterling department to come and talk about environmental issues. On this particular case all have the economic depart from the political size devolving talk about the issues related to the politics of this country. Ray somebody from the larger problem. Talk about the legal issues underpinning this case Instead, what we say just make all the money you can and the very fails, bring the divinity school depressing doesnt, both admin. That's not what I would really urge. We look on business education, given the advice, four would be seals.

today, seals and tough environment the world around us is changing, so profoundly technology is racing forward is very hard to keep up with them. Yet you have to adapt and adopt those technologies. Inside your company, you to become a foreign policy experts yourself, because the world around us is changing in many ways thought. The world was flat now its flight, with lots of values between countries. the role of the Multi National, has to be carefully thought through judiciously thought through. Answer today, seals dealing in a complex one is operating in a complex one has to be a learning seal, with lots of curiosity ability for lifelong learning and has the incredible believed zoom out and german costume. Look at the world in a Broadway are an issue Broadway and zoom in and say how can I implemented in my company, so the sea

Future has to be special and I hope we are developing people with broad experiences and down all unite, exposing them to all kind of situation so that they can be the kind of senior was very easy. In other words, I guess I'm glad. I'm gonna see her in renewing. Thank you so much for joining us on the show the book is. Terrific people should get it. It's called my life in full work, family and our future. Thank you. So much thank battle. My conversation with in renewing continue for members of the cafe insider community too, out the membership free for two weeks had the kapital dot com slash insider again, that's cafe: dot com, slash insider

I want to end the show this week with a story from the world a book publishing no. Not about the banning of books. I leave that for another day it's terrible and deplorable and unamerican, but instead I will tell you about uplifting story. Publishing its about an enterprising and highly imaginative eight year old, second, greater, Boise Idaho, named Dylan Hell big. Let's begin with his past December, when Dylan used Empty notebook given to him by his grandmother, embarked on a four day: whirlwind of writing and drawing to complete an eighty one page story book I don't wanna, give too much of the story away. But there's memorable moment in the book when Dylan Disk himself decorating the family Christmas tree only too the star on top explode and transport. Him

mysterious time portal to the very first thanksgiving in sixteen twenty one sounds like a page turner like Author Dylan wanted people to read his work, so he took the logical if, as he puts it, naughtiest measure of sneaking his newly minted book onto a shelf at the Lake Hazel Branch of the eight, a community library in Boise, by the way he titled the book, the adventures of Dylan Hell, big Christmas. Christmas spelled, of course, our eye as Emma S. Here's what he told the local boys you television station, Katy, Phoebe last month about the covert operation there is a lot of lay bare in that I had to get past the do you know what I did, what you do. I covered this poor and covered the back with my body and just snuck in it, but that night he confessed to his parents, why his book was no longer in their home. The next morning they called the library with hopes of retrieving Dylan's work, which they assume? Had been discarded, but it may be found

way to the lost and found them, but to everyone's surprise, the librarian said that their sons debut effort was more than worthy for a spot on their shelf. In fact, for the Washington Post, Dylan's book became one of the most sought after works at the library. What's more publishers of even expressed interest in officially publishing the book and the library has when given Dylan its first ever Houdini award for best young novelist, an award they created just for him. There is also a proposed project. That would have Dylan team up with a local author and Boise to form a workshop that encourages young aspiring writers to pursue their story, telling dreams, I'm happy, report that the adventures of Dylan held big Christmas.

is not only highly and demanded the local I bury, but thanks to some national coverage, its inspiring children across the country to take an initiative in putting their own pen and are a crown to paper, and so I ve got to say amidst what has been a discouraging wave of book banning taking root across the country. It is really encouraging and inspiring and heartening, to hear a story like diligence and I of course, look forward to Dylan's follow a book which he says will be about the Grinch and will feature his dog rusty well. That's it for this episode of stay too thanks again, my guest ingenuity if you like what we do rate

review the show an apple pie casts or wherever you listen. Every positive review helps new listeners find the show similar questions about news, politics and justice between them. To me, I prepared with the hashtag aspirin, or you can call and leave me a message at six hundred and sixty nine, two hundred and forty seven, seven thousand three hundred and thirty, eight that's six thousand six hundred and ninety two for freak, for you can send an email to letters. A cafe dotcom stated is presented by cafe and the Vocs media Hype cast network executive producer is tomorrow, supper. The technical director

who's David Tadich or the senior producers or Adam Waller and Matthew Billy, and the cafe team is David, Kurlander Samos Dayton, Noah Ocelot, Gleaner, Jake Kaplan, Chris Boyland, Sean Walsh, and now I'm at the shop or music is by Andrew Dost. I'm your host Preet Bharara, stay tuned.