From CAFE and the Vocs media pack has network welcome to stay too. I'm prepared, I thought the change happen from the outside, but what I realised as I was looking at it all wrong, and that if I were to think about elected office as an organizing platform and ability to organise both in Congress and bring kind of the movement the outside movement together in a we need a strategy to achieve the kind of change I want to see them. That was that was definitely worth it. congresswoman, primarily Gylippus from Seattle. In only her third term in Congress, she has emerged powerful, progressive voice within the Democratic party? As chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, she helped broker the passage about the bipartisan infrastructure package and the build back better social safety net.

Dr Hold joins me today to talk about her unusual path to Congress, the role she played in go shading the bill back better agenda and what it means be a progressive in today's democratic Party. That's coming up stating this episode. brought to you by Clavijo the sms and email marketing platform that empowers businesses from start ups to legacy brands to own their data and on their growth. Clavijo makes it simple descent, personalized campaigns built from customer First Data TM the great data you get directly from customers all with their permission, You don't have to outsource your marketing efforts to a distant third party, who'll immediately dilute your customer relationships. Clavijo puts you and your business back and control. you own the data, it's time for you on the growth to learn more clavijo dot com, slash holidays,

El Av. I why oh dot com, slash holidays today, as we approach the holidays reminder to check out the Cathy Merge shop featuring some an favorites, like our signature, stay tuned, hoodie in coffee, mug and sign copies of my book. Doing justice to Cathay dot com slashed shop, that's Cathay, Dotcom, Slash shop now, let's get to your questions the question from Twitter user, Shannon ass Brown, who writes, would you describe what kind of support staff there is and their roles in big cases, we only your big names, such as the prosecutor, I'd like to hear what goes on behind the scenes. Please, and thank you that's a great and important question, and I am very glad you asked it when

discuss cases here and on the insider. Podcast often is a shorthand. We refer to the person who gave the opening statement or the closing argument, the prosecutors in the case, but boy, me tell you: it takes a lot of people in a lot of places to me together, that's true in the defence side as well. So let me mention some of them. First, in any criminal case there's, always an investigative agency, a law enforcement partner that could be the police department. It could be. The FBI it could be the d a secret service. There's also always and outside investigative agency, which, by the way, they themselves have a lead agent and in others Ford staff on the investigative I'd as well off in a trial and in my experience in every no case in federal court. There is actually at the council's table not just the lead prosecutor in the other prosecutors, but also the case agent. So that's a very, very important part of putting a case to get

then all prosecutors offices have a whole bunch of other staff, including paralegal and assistance. They do all sorts of things from sight, checking briefs to putting together pair points to arrange, a witness interviews to Puddings its together for court or for hearings, They are invaluable and there's a tradition at least as the and why power illegals leaving to your last. Wanna coming back and becoming prosecutors themselves. There in many places, including as to why Internal investigators to either supplement the work of the outside law enforcement agency or do the work on their own. We were blast in the southern district of New York, with one of the best kept secret and the entire department of Justice with a nineteen, raising fabulous seasoned, smart, hardworking investigators among my favorite people in the whole office, and they contributed to every case well then, depending on the nature of the witnesses in the case, or how he went about the investigation. We have interpreters, who help you.

Stand the testimony both at trial and in preparation. If you have spanish speakers or a foreign language speakers, the interpreters are absolutely invaluable in their skill is very much in demand and helps make a case much stronger. There's audiovisual staff to help make exhibits for trial and for a grand jury purposes, in that can sometimes be very key to getting across points, there are sometimes ass in a mass of words. As they say, the picture is worth a thousand words then, depending on the nature of the case, there a victim witness what yours we, the southern district. When I was there had a wonderful woman named Wendy Olsen, who would do everything for making sure the witnesses had a place to stay politically if they were victims of crime, to something appropriate aware to making sure they were comfortable throughout the investigator process and the trial process, and it can make a big difference in the quality of life for victim witnesses and for the way they testify to have someone taken care of their

and there are other folks too. There are the folks in a close office. The folks in the press office, who also answer your question to make sure that filings go okay, so there's a lot of people all of that stuff by the way mean he cleared a folks, because on behind the scenes, it's really celebrated so really glad. You asked the question a the Laos in tonight just large criminal trials, but camel driver, discussion comes from twitter user with handle at Saint John Fifty six, who writes I preach. If someone takes the fifth does that mean they can't be question for any prosecutes, and therefore free to say and do whatever they want, and second, if they are pardoned by a protests and then questioned taking the fifth no longer applies. Hashtag asked pre, what's good question,

let's go back to basics. What is the fifth amendment say? Will it relates to a lot of rights, including due process and other things, but for purposes of your question, the fifth amendment says: quote: no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness again, himself, and so it is thought to be a very, very important right, very protective right for people who have been investigated or might be prosecuted in this country and its a bedrock principle of criminal justice system. Now, when you asked the question, if you take the fifth, does that mean they can't be question for any prosecution? That's not quite right in people differ on the process by which good faith invocation of the fifth amendment is done. As we ve been seeing play out in the general six investigation to people, look like their pleading, the fifth. They include Jeffrey Clark, The former Dio J official in John Eastman. former outside lawyer to Donald Trump now in both of those cases-

There are some controversy in dispute about whether properly invoking the fifth amendment rights, the he has taken the position. I think appropriately, that you have to involve The fifth amendment right again self incrimination with great specificity, with respect to each can being asked because our something's, like your name, your background, your employment and other basics. They clearly or not incriminating on their own questions about those kinds of thing, should be able to be asked and it gets more dicey. If you start to get into communication, back to the president, if there's a good faith, belief that maybe criminal conduct can be ascertained from that in a criminal case might be forthcoming. as Joyce and discuss in the cafe insider Pike this week week, when the consequence of invoking the fifth probably in this context, means that long as it's of somewhat reasonable invocation of the fifth amendment privilege again self incrimination Probably the case of Congress would be loath to refer that person for criminal prosecution of contempt of Congress

and I think it would be very unlikely for the Department of Justice prosecute someone for contempt of Congress. It was asserted philammon right, even if it's not fully clean, I think just gets difficult and to muddy, and I doubt that it will go forward the other possibility by the way- and this happens from time to time and it's a frog decision- the press Peters and investigators make someone takes. If, if you can decide to give them a form of immunity- and that happens criminal cases and also happens, rational investigations, then you have taken away. If you decide to do You ve, taken away the possible of their onward used against them in a criminal case, because you ve, given them immunity for that purpose. that will happen here. That's a conversation for another day in a lotta considerations that are taken into account before we decide to do something that is, is not uncommon, but still a fairly serious decision with respect. Your second question, if someone's pardoned by protests does taking the fifth no longer apply the outlets generally true, because there

more criminal case in which, Words can be used against you, as the fifth amendment provides, but it has to be very specific So, for example, he rubbed the banking pardon for it, but during the same period of time minute insider trading, you can't take the fifth with respect to the bank robbery, because there's no more criminal case, you ve, been pardoned. but you haven't been pardoned for insider trading and you can invoke the fifth amendment with respect to their conduct. So specific to the conduct in question not just a broad indication as to all things you may or may not have done in your life and will see how it plays out the Jeffrey Clark, Johnny's men and perhaps. Others stay tuned, there's more coming up after this

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Why he s t dot com, slash support My guess this week is Congresswoman Primula Gyre Paul. By her own admission. She something of an unlikely politician, but over the last year, the one time The west has become a key inside player, leading the congressional progressive Carcass and helping to negotiate present binding legislative agenda Congresswoman Primula Jaya, Paul thanks for coming on the show. Thank you pre, it's great to be with you? We were too, before we started taping and I sit, how are you- and you said- I guess- that's the first question. one has to ask each other these days still, and how are you good. Thank you. I will every morning and I feel bless my family and my friends of my loved ones are ok.

And that were moving in the right direction as a country, but obviously it still a question right that never used to be more than just a formality several years ago. I know in your bio? We have some similarities. One is of course, we're both born in India. That's my parents were not overly pleased at first when I chose to be a government major and then went to law school, and I learned that you in english literature in college. How did it go over? not very well when you have indian coherence to use in their last five thousand dollars to send you to the United States by your sound because you're supposed to become a doctor, a lawyer or veneer three vaunted those are the only three that's reactors are barely three and then You use your one phone call home that get every year to

call your dad from the dorm phone and tell him you're gonna, be an english literature major instead of an economic nature, but it is not a good day and the family you know and a whole the phone away from my ears. He screamed at me and said I didn't send you to the United States to learn how to speak English. You already know how to speak, but is withdrawing. Was the only thing were I'm driving? What would be worse in in an indian family. Maybe our history, art history, yeah yeah, I think gum definitely the arts. But I will say that, even years later, you know I was running. I had founded and ran a non power the organization. My parents came to visit and it happened be the year that the Washington Governor Governor Gregoire was our key note. She came over to meet my dad and he said yes, my daughter really enjoys this volunteer work. Yet it is not a full time job.

So do I learned also in connection with interview, I believe, they're only eighteen naturalised citizens in the entire EU, Us Congress, that's correct. and it's going to be think we need more. It's going to happen the last couple of years. I think when I came in and two thousand and seventeen it may have been thirty Don't call me on the number, so we increase the number slightly The reality is that in today's Congress, and recently you know in the in the last decades, we have few naturalised citizens that serve in Congress, and I think that is changing, but its changes very slowly and it's a number that is only topped by number of women of color in Congress, which is also extremely small. I think something like gum, was: seventy nine. Since the history of the founding of Congress, I get a question along these lines on a regular basis, sermon and turn the question to you, and that is

you have your experience. Being an immigrant unnaturalized citizen has a color your outlook in government Well, I think it really informs how we see the world and the union states in relationship to the world, because I did spend the four Sixteen years of my life outside of the United States growing up. In India, Indonesia and Singapore, and then I and ten years, when I was not yet a? U S, citizen working on international health issues, and so for me the world is much bigger than just the United States, our relationships on four policy, diplomatic relations, even international health. You look at the crisis of covert that were facing today and from beginning. I have been focused on how do we address covered in the world because it dramatic we affects how the United States fares, and so I think,

on everything, including immigration, and which is an area spent twenty years on, as an activist before I mean to Congress. it has changed and shaped the way I see what the policy priorities are, what the solutions are and what our responsibility is. As a country too in the world. You said something at the outset. The interview that I want to come back to you said America is moving in the right direction. A lot of people in this country don't believe that to be so, Why is there such a disconnect? Well, when I said that I meant it in the context of calls it will people dont really believe that either you know how to folks don't you know, there's a big divide and I think it's really unfortunate that public health has become politicized and that people Oh, you know. Thanks said Donald Trump. Really doubting covert, not taking it seriously. You know tat

treatments that were not real treatments, refusing to really come out strongly in taking on covered initially with mass, wearing and and simple things that maybe just a few years ago. Nobody would have contested. We are in this place, words are very divided. Very divided, Cunt free on what the facts are, and I think that's the thing pre that really bother me the most is. We don't start from the same set of facts and if you don't start from the same set of facts- and you can't get to the same conclusion, because the facts are completely different and so there is, I think there is a real disconnect in terms of what the Sciences and taking the science seriously, and this whole question none of you, and I were both you know, but both born in India. I was data people if I hadn't gotten vaccinated I'd, be dead and

the idea that we are questioning vaccines, particularly when it comes to something that is not just about yourself, but is about the broader public. If you don't get vaccinated, it's not just yourself that suffers it's it's the broader public. and because it is, it is infectious, and so I think that has been a real challenge for addressing what would have been a you know, fairly, benign in some ways, theory of how you get better and how you move in the right direction with Cove. I can only go about your bio for moment, because we joked about your family response to your being an English slip major, but then you graduated and you work at Pain Weber. So now you here, you put the english literature degree to to business, use how come well part of it was my dad. You know he was really having a hard time, and I said: listen, I'm gonna get the same job with an English lit major that I would have gotten with an economics. Major

the pitch I made to him pre, and it was the same page I made to a bunch of investment banks had ended up making me offers. Is it you can articulate in writing and reading orally that Then you really have everything you need to be successful with everything else. Everything else can be learned after that, and that was slippage I made for a liberal arts. Major d go work and investment banking in the middle, Nineteen eighties and it was too good pitch it's a good picture of the older I get the more we have this conversation with professor the other day the older I get the more. I think that reading and speaking in communications ability is the absolute key to success, whether you're a doctor or a scientist or investment banker. Obviously these other skills, analytical skills, expertise in a particular field, understanding how the law works.

But but if you can communicate it- and I don't mean at a party and necessarily or on CNN or an Amazon BC, but I mean to your colleagues into your superiors and to your subordinates. You're just lost that's enough. they write and an. I stop go by that. You know. I still think that that was. That was the right training for me and then I also think- and I tell young people all the time- that it's really good to do things that tell you what you don't want to do as much as things, but I tell you what you do want to do those two years. Investment banking were incredibly value. to me. I am very comfortable with numbers that has stood me in good stead as a non profit negative as a member of Congress on the budget committee, but it was clear to me that I did want to continue to pursue that past so long. So you been Am I congratulate you and your success as a member of Congress see you all the time we're gonna get back to the we get to the bill back better agenda in a few minutes

but you clearly have had a successful run in Congress. Even though you haven't been a very long and you clearly respected by our colleagues and you led the progressive cock my question to you is: if you could pick one of the skills or experiences that you developed, whether it was in a living in multiple countries were studying, was lit or time and finance or work at a non profit. What is the thing that you did before coming Congress that helps you the most. I definitely think it was organizing. I mean it's hard to separate those out because I do think each experience builds on the other and it just keeps you know. To your arsenal of skills and all come in useful in a different way, but I definitely think organizing and you know understanding how you build consensus across different perspectives, how you build a campaign? Happy! work, a campaign that

the theory of change that you know initially compelled me to run for office. I never really wanted to be in public office. Actually, in an elected official, I thought the change happen, from the outside, but what I realised as I was looking at it all wrong and that if I were to think about elected office as an organizing platform and ability to organise both in Congress and bring kind of the movement the outside movement together in a needed strategy to achieve the kind of change I want to see them. That was that was definitely worth it So that's why I ran, and I think that I've been able to show that It's possible inside Congress. You know building up the progressive caucus to be the force that it is, but also working across the democratic carcass working with the White House to achieve what I think really will be transformational change for this country. What cause you to have it epiphany? The change who come from the inside.

I think I got frustrated that I had spent so much time working with elected officials, some of whom were excellent, but many of whom were completely a blue it's too what was happening. in communities of color and immigrant communities and poor communities. You know I was working on fifteen dollar minimum wage that Seattle with major city on the country to pass ten dollar minimum wage- and I was proud to be a part of the committee that helped make that happen- there were so many things that we had fought for and actually had some success in, but it wait longer in my mind than it should have, and I realise that their just want a lot of people. Like me and elected office. There weren't organizers, the works folks of color in in you know broad scale there weren't. immigrants, as you mentioned, starting off the interview and it seems to me that you can't build good policy, whether

you're. You know in the law or whether you're in Congress, if you dont, have a diversity of perspectives and That I think that was part of it and then the other part of it was there's some ego involved in running for office, and I think I looked at the people that were running an Stay out of the race had stayed out. People kept ask me to run. This was initially from my state Senate race, I suddenly when they woke up and thought you know I can do better than that And I decided to step in and it was very late, but but it was great and I became the first South asian American, ever elected to the state legislature and actually at the time, only women of color in the state Senate, and so I think you know, I worked very hard to make sure that that was not the case after I left and now we have multiple, these Asians elected to the state legislature and we have a very much better, diverse city of women, of color and in the state legislature, including in the state tenant

when will you give advice to young people? As you mentioned, you sometimes do, is your advice now that they should really really think hard about running for office as opposed to doing outside activism think it depends on the person. I think you really need good people at every place, and so it isn't. I dont think everybody is suited to run for office, but I think everybody should consider it is an option and I think it is really. I tell young people that no, especially when they are not sure what they want to do. I say two things: one, your path does not have to be linear might have. My path was very far linear and I think, there's a lot of advantage to having a path that has not linear. Frankly, because you get a lot of skills in, arena Two I tell them to just keep a little note book with them and try a lot of different things entered to make notes about what energizes you, what depletes you, and that is a really

gauge for where you might want to apply your energy is so I dont tell we to run for office. I do tell people that they should think about it, that it is a very viable path, particularly for activists and organizers and people who never used to think of elected office. as a way to organise. That is something. I do talk about quite a bit their various ways to get a point across or to persuade folks audited and to defend the position that you have an obviously you use analysis and x and figures and evidence, but there's also stories and sometimes it's a personal story. They can have an impact on people and you in TWAIN. Ninety I wrote a very moving peace that you published and you told a story- you never told before

seems even more relevant. Now you talked about a very difficult decision you made years ago to have an abortion. Can you tell folks why you want to tell the story and what the story was YAP, one of the things that I learned in organizing is exactly what you said. That storytelling is really really important. Now, typically, I was well seem to get other people to tell their stories, not necessarily focusing on my own, but when I added Congress? I realized that part of connecting people- choose their elected officials is to be human and to Tell- a story and of course we have a very big platform when we are members of Congress to do that, and so this was the time when the abortion bans across the country were just beginning to come out. Instead, it's. There were numerous states taking on

Orson bands, and I think I couldn't stop thinking about the fact that I could perhaps make a differ. In calling attention to this issue. If I were to share a very personal story that I had never share before for more than a decade so I decided to write and are bad in the New York Times about my abortion, which pre I had never told my mother about and I had to call before my goodness I wrote about it, because I wanted to make sure she knew what was what was happening and why was doing what I was doing. What was, What was your reaction to aid, the fact that you would have an abortion and then be the fact that you can tell the world about It was more on the first. I think that I had had won and never talk to her about it, and I think we spent some time talking about that was, and I think that some of the barriers that exist to people telling their stories about abortion because we have

made it a sort of shameful. experience I mean that before I published the bed, I should say I I made that I had increased security. I made sure I contacted capital these to tell them that I was gonna do this week, installed camp where we already had cameras around the house, but we installed more cameras around the house. Because I also knew that there was going to be a spate of violence. threatened violence towards me, that was a real possibility and in fact, did it did happen. And so I wanted to be prepared for that, but I think from a cultural perspective as Well You know there is still a stigma telling your story, and that is why so many women across the country are talking about feeling Howard, when you tell your story because it shouldn't be. That case I mean it shouldn't be that we should have to tell her story number one. This is a very personal decision, but

you're in a reality where these stories are important. It's important to not have women were pregnant. People feel like they are closet somewhere, they can't talk about this. And there is such a diversity of experiences and nuances to everyone's abortion story from me. It was a difficult session. It was a very difficult decision, and it it is something that I still think about today, but that is the case for everybody does so people understand, and maybe you can feel the same a bit the background of your decision was that you would have a child who was born extremely prematurely. I think at a weight of one pound, fourteen ounces, and you made a decision, as you say in your op, that you would do anything to avoid get pregnant and has you say those measures are not always foolproof and you found your cell pregnant and where the doctors tell you that's exactly right. The doctors told me that there was no way there was very high probability that that

is going to have a similar kind of birth experience, which I was still with a very, very sick child, and I was still dealing with a lot of emotional trauma and post traumatic stress disorder that I had had from going through that experience, and they also told me that there was a real possibility of danger to my own health, which was the case in my first pregnancy as well. and I just knew there was no way that I could go through another pregnant, like that. I was still recovering from the first one and, as I said, I had done every possible than was very, very regular and religious about my birth control, but it didn't work and so I had to make that choice of whether I was ready to bring another be into the world, knowing that that baby may not survive or may go through the same experience that China had gone through and also pretty

in my own life- and I realise there is no way- I could do that so I I chose to have an abortion, and I was fortunate because I did not have income restrictions in? Oh, I was able to afford it. My state Washington state, made it so that abortions are available and affordable compared to most other states I had a very skilled provider and I had I had the support of my partner who completely understood: why doing what I was doing and had been a part of the decision making and You know so in every way. I had it easy, but that's exactly why I had to talk about it because that's what it should be for every person and these abortion bands, and now we ve seen you know the worst of it and with the Supreme Court arguments. The other day. I think you know confronting the fact that we may go back to back alley aboard and that we may take away this constitutional right. That was proof

I did because the Supreme Court apparently not going to consider precedent any longer errors, gonna considered in a way that allows them to overturn press it and so I think it has been a. It was an important article that I wrote and at the time improved the thing that made me the most happy about it. Was that in sharing my story it generated conversations at kitchen tables and workplaces across the country. I got so many letters from people saying you're Article made me tell my loved one, my mother, my sister, my whoever my best friend about the abortion that I had and it for the conversation also about folks of color and abortion, because it is. so true that when you limit abortion services, it is

It is particularly difficult for women of color for people of color for poor people. who? Don't have the resources to fly to another state and get an abortion, and so I think gun so many levels. It was an amazing opportunity for me to share my story into generate conversation and perhaps the best response I got was from a man who is a constituent who was it? I forget the conservative Democrat or a Republican, a conservative Democrats who was not pro abortion, who said that he opened the articles thinking. Oh my god, you're goes another liberal telling me no. Why should believe an abortion and in my peace. I made it very clear that I don't try to convince anybody to have an abortion. That is not my place. The whole point of this is that it should be your tweets and he said I was just so great

to see that argument and for the first time I feel like I might be able to understand why we should not fall this choice on any one else and in I think, that's what you hope to do with a peace is just affect how people see it and think about it through a story rather than through new political argument. That's right we'll be right back with more of my conversations with Congresswoman Gibe Hall. After this, it's not original to say the twenty twenty one has been an exhausting year, but that doesn't make it any. true and shore, while the holidays or about spending quality time with your loved ones. You shouldn't forget to do something for yourself too, taking some time to redesign your home with Hunter Douglas hundred Douglas his

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and here we are in the precipice of road overall. This is a very high likelihood of it, and even if it's not an explicitly, it will effectively be done. Based on what we saw. The argument that you just mentioned: how do you explain to constituents how it can be that a better right, the people relied upon four five decades and that only twenty seven percent of people want to have taken away in a social democracy? How can we possibly happen? How do you explain that, while I can't really explain it other than to say that these institutions that we have relied on to protect our democracy and you have spent your life if you know really making sure that those have integrity, that these institutions are now being politicized, in a way that is extremely dangerous to our democracy. That's true in Congress, it's true of the Supreme Court and that's why,

keep saying to people. You know the power has to be in your vote and in the ballot box. because we now need to make sure that we are electing a congress that can that can employ meant the things that Americans want. But even that is flawed. I mean we're get rid of the filibuster in the Senate, if we really want to have policies like gun reform, you know abortion rights codified, if we want to move forward on a fifteen, our minimum wage, all of them Things are blocked by a Senate that gives the power it's really the tyranny of the minority, the power to block a bill from even being considered, because you need sixty votes because of the filibuster. So I think it is difficult to explain- and I think it why there are so many people across the country that have lost faith and dont participate because you know there's so much money in politics that affects what happen

in Congress, and then people are seeing the way in which even the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land is simply becoming an ideological political reactionary court is not just a conservative court. It is a reactionary court and Think that is, that is going to do an enormous amount of harm to our democracy, and I hope that chief justice birds and and others on the court are thinking about exactly what that means. If they roll back or overturn row which, as you said, looks very likely I maintain my progressive ism. My first question is: do you prefer the term progressive over liberal for any particular reason? Not really I mean, I think progressive, has become a a term. resonates for people that are more towards the left particularly on fiscal issues. You know- and I think, on

economic issues, that's where some of the difference comes, and so I think the term we use and obviously Emma Progressive Carcass member. So I used the word progressive, I'm the chair, the Parrot, the carcass, and so that's that's and abroad, as always, when we use progressive old. I would ask you some questions about the Caucasus in a moment. How do you define progressive? The way I do find it is an absolute unshakeable focus on lifting up the majority of people poor and working class versus the very. Small minority at the top and end there a whole host of things that come into that, but that, I think, is the core of what we're talking about when we talk of a progressive policy says what lifts up the most vulnerable. what lifts up poor people working people who don't have as much of a say as they should in in democracy and in government, and that is true, whether you're talking about economics, whether you're talking about

social policy like algebra check your quality or what you're talking about immigration and and issues that directly affect black brown and an indigenous people. How big attempt is progressive them, it's a very big tens, but I think you know I have always wondered how come you know how much better we would be if we had multiple part, these verses, just one one democratic party in one republican party, but we have a two party system essentially in this country, and so it is a very big tat. I think have made enormous progress in moving the country to a much better as on so many policies like fifteen, our minimum wage. You know twelve years ago it was not a mainstream democratic principle. Today, it is that's true of algae b t cure quality, it's true, less so of immigration. That has really seen swings back and forth and back and forth. But it is still the case that the vat,

The majority of Americans believes in really inclusive immigration policy, and so I think it is a big tent. And it's important, that we keep a big tent but is also important that we recognise there are real barriers to implementing progressive policy, the majority of which in the form of things that are xenophobic, and you know target groups like emigrants or black folks in the tree, and the second is economic policy. I mean we are really stuck with the amount of money in politics. A prison prevents us even as Democrats from impulse hunting, bold prescription, drug reform or implementing bold tax reform. That has been a frustration, because, even if that is not just a Republicans versus Democrats, if you don't get me wrong, Democrats are a hundred times better on these issues,

is, but there is no reason that we shouldn't, as a democratic majority, be able to implement bold tax reform or drug reform. Those are basic, economic issues. That would really help us to say the people across the sky we're for you, whether your rural, whether in a Trump district, whether you're in a democratic district. We want to cut your cos, we want to make sure that you can have a better life and opportunity is Nancy Palacio, Progressive. Yeah. She is a progressive. You know she comes from San Francisco, but you have to remove were that speaker. Blowsy is also the leader of a democratic caucus. That is much more diverse, and so I think that oh she has to balance. All of the different pieces of the democratic clause I'm not saying I always agree with every decision she makes, but I do I think that that is a different. That is a different rule. That she's playing to be speaker would oblige imply burn. You know I think,

no that the representative, Clayburn whip Kleiber would define himself progressive. I think there are a lot of issues that he is salute we progressive on and then some less. So I don't know I don't. I headed how to answer the question. I ve never really thought about that when clearly but heels comes from a very different part of the country, and you know I think that all plays into it just talk about the congressional Progressive Caucus for a moment that you lead till folks about it. How many? How many members are there? How do you get entry is there a quiz, you gotta pass a litmus test as a very difficult task that you have the best know. It's a ninety six members, strong caucus. It was founded over twenty years ago and it was initially founded more as a social club. You know for people of of strong ideological alike.

To be together, german de facto Peter DE facto, just sadly announced his retirement was one of the commission there's Bernie Sanders, of course, Maxine Waters and and several others were all the founders of the progressive caucus, but when I can into Congress. It became really clear to me that Keith listen who was culture at the time and roll grow hover. We're both try to change that to be a more disciplined sort of focused carcass, but that was still very much the beginning stages of that and when marked pull can- and I took over it- co chairs, and we even before we took over US cultures, we started working on real building up the Caucasus and putting new definition to it. Updating our vision statement are goals are priorities which was some that has been done in a long time, but also changing the rules too. Make sure that we were making

It means something to be a part of the progressive carcass and so that involved. You know putting together a list of flagship, progressive caucus bills. If you were going to be a member of the progressive caucus you to sign on to at least seventy percent of that flagship legislation that you had a vote with the contrary, you are too literally become you had a little. You become a sponsor of that legislation, correct exactly you had to correspond. for that legislation in Congress and overcome so a year. We would check to see that you have done that because those are the the poles and the policy positions of the progress of progress and it needed to be that you, you know that you that you sent for thing. So not every single thing, you're about to say also that the rules now require members to vote with a CBC at least two thirds of the time career if, if we take a position and sewed- and

take a position. You have to get to sixty six percent or more of the pockets, and so so that has been I think, a really important discussion, even though it it necessarily been used as much, but it is the theory that we are voting as a block and that what we re able to do in the bill back better act, but so there were other things that we did to really encourage people to feel identified with the Progressive Crockett. So you know attended, set meetings that sounds like a really. You know basic you take attendance. We we require that people attend at least fifty percent of the meetings, and you would the only fifty percent that, but that's it was yeah yeah only fifty poorest. That's pretty that's pretty forgiving. It is very forgiving and and its we also started doing you know we added to the staff, finally raised our deuce progressives never like to raise do as I came in, and I was like why don't we have more staff for ninety six member cock as we one person, and so

oh peoples at all? Well, we don't have money, because you have to raise Jews from members in order to pay for staff, and so I said well, let's raise the dews and let's get more so we now have, I think it's five staff, a communications drug policy, director of fellow, negative director. You know, so we ve really added to our capacity to service our members, and now we do communications points every week. Everyone gets communications points so that we be disciplined about our messaging. That was something you saw that I am very proud of, and the bill back better fight. Over the last year, people were extremely disciplined and what are talking whence were in how we were gonna, stick to them and how we were going to use them to continue to build momentum so then a really fabulous opportunity for us as a progressive Kok, has to show what happens when you leverage an organised on the inside and really bring, people in, so that it's not just three or four members which, as you know, pre with this,

majorities we have. You only need three members to you noted to stop to block a piece of legislation but we wanted something much different. I wanted to have more than half of our progressive carcass members any being decision. We were making more than half to be on the same place and that's really what we were able to get have you had to kick him. You want out we haven't had to kick anybody out, but there are a couple of members that, because this is our, last year with the rules that are going to be notified, that they need to do a little bit of work over the next six months. In order to come, come to more meetings sign onto more legislation. So, let's talk about in the in the remaining time, though, back better and in that fight you have been incredibly important and influential and a leader and that's been acknowledged, and to congratulate and we're not we're not over the finish line yet. First pragmatic,

we're recording this UNAM on Monday December six and so doesn't drop until Thursday. Maybe things will become more clear, the odds of this thing getting through the Senate by Christmas, are one. Well, I think, they're very good. I know that leader Schumer is committed to getting it done before Christmas. I know we all are putting enormous pressure on him. And on the president and the White House to get it done before Christmas and fur because there is no reason not to one of the stumbling blocks. Right now is this. You know that the fact that everything has to be run HU, the parliamentarian in the Senate and the parliamentarian does have some health concerns. I can't believe that we're down to one woman having health concerns, that's slowing down the process here, but that is a reality of the system. Isn't there a deputy parliamentary there is, but I think that still has to be run by the parliamentarian. You know approving everything and so

It's a ridiculous system, in my my opinion, not because there is anything wrong with her she's just doing her job, but you know the idea we are pushing all these major decisions to one woman who is unelected, one person who is unelected is is ridiculous and my mind, but that's the situation we had. So there are certain things that have to be run through the parliamentarian, because of what is called this bird bath right. This is that argument that, in order to use fifty one votes instead of sixty votes, you using a process called but yet reconciliation, and so only things that dramatically affect the budget and cue to Sir the parameters are the things that can be included and the parliamentarian is the person who decides if that is the case. So most of the legislation was actually pre conference agreed to buy,

the majority of you know the olive actually all of the senators and house representatives, we obviously past it through the house already. So we are now just waiting for the parliamentarian. To sort of prove, the things that are in there and then, of course, there is the concept discussion with one or two senators, but I believe that part this is less the issue the procedural parliamentarian issue is the thing we're worrying about now and then we digital forward. This is the president's agenda, its much scale And unfortunately, but the reality of not having more of a margin in the Senate, and the house means that, even if you have ninety six percent of Democrats in the house in the Senate with the president of the It states that not enough you need to have essentially a hundred percent, and so we scaled back because of senators, mansion and cinema, and we came to a pre conference agreement- and it is still a transformational package that we passed in the house- and now we just need to get it through the Senate, because the american people,

desperately need this assistance lower costs for Americans across the country. It'll provide universal Pre K, Universal Childcare cut prescription, a pricing costs for families ass, the country extend the child tax credit and we could do invest in housing biggest investment. Why would I want to talk about that? We'll talk about a phenomenon that is similarly to when we talk about a few minutes ago. In a few minutes ago, talked about how the vast majority of the public doesn't want. Rhoda be overturned, and yet here we are- and this is not quite that but you have particular policies here. You mentioned the lowering of prescription drove prices which it enormously power enormously popular hugely popular overdue people really wanted popular with conservatives, progressives all sorts of folks between the phenomenon. Talking about is, Joe Biden.

Even as Joe Biden is trying to enact and is enacting acting popular policies. His on personal popularity doesn't seem to be benefiting, and there have been put aside another observers who are saying what were reaching a time when there's just a disconnect between the popularity of policies and the popularity of the people who are responsible for getting that done. It strikes me that that's anti democratic and dangerous these subscribed that theory or have any Explanation for it will. I think it is true, and I think it goes to the question of facts again, and you know the use of social media to distort what is true when it comes to covert, and I think, it comes to Joe Biden. I think the reality is were coming out of these massive crises, but it's it's not. I mean it's slow going to come out of the biggest economic have a station that we have seen since

depression. Some might argue worse than that. You know I think it is. It is, were coming out of a health crisis with covered that is slow. It is, extremely difficult, because it is such a massive issue the countries such a tiny percentage of people around the world have been there ex needed thanks to vaccine equity and global health inequity, and so I think these Take time- and I think if you had a account, three that was willing to acknowledge that we are moving in the right direction and that doesn't make health care, partisan you know, covert partisan. It would be different situation, but I think the other piece is that we have such slim majorities in the Democratic Party, and so we were able to institute american Rescue plan. We immediately went on to try to get build back better done, we're not very good about talking about what we ve done and liberating what we ve done, because there's so much we have to do, and I think we have to be much better. Remember the M during the day

appear there were those big signs everywhere provided for by your taxpayer dollars the United States government. You know whether it was new highway or whatever we need a real public campaign around the fact that democratic cut child poverty and half the fact that we have backs needed you no more people than People thought was possible when Joe Biden came into doing part of her the reason the that's being done better by the Democrats. Is that more of them were not english lit majors I do think we good communicators, and I think that that is something have spent a lot of time on. I was not anticipating, I would spend so much time on that were television, but I feel like it was. It became an opportunity to talk about it's in the back better and I I just thinks, simpler messages. You know people talk about him, another time. Unlike start talking about inflation, talk about you know when a family has a fixed income and fixed budget,

You gotta make costs, go down, some costs go up if the cost of gas goes up, then make the cost of childcare go down. That's how people deal with their budgets right mode, my families are not talking about inflation. There talking me about the rising cost of diapers or the rising cost of childcare, and so that's the way we need to talk about stuff, and I think we have a hard time doing that as Democrats. Sometimes I mean I worry, and I take your point on messaging him and I think that's very, very important, but I worry that because of tribalism and all sorts of other things. People are just not giving credit to policymakers for good policies people have made a decision about about Biden, associate him with a party some of these elements. They don't like any matter what good comes of it. He doesn't get credit I agree, and if in it that persists,

Priscilla and inside what kind of dont know what to do about that? Well, I think that will change, though the sooner we can get. What happens is a lot of the twenty four seven new cycle focuses on price ass. It does not focus on outcome that focuses on process and pressed says messy and democracy with narrow margins, as though everybody's focused on process process process, but the reality. Is I kept saying to anybody? I would go on tv with. I was like you have to. Let me talk about what's in the bill, because you asked me about price says, and I want to talk about would send the bill and so you know, I think we have to recognise that. That's part of the problem here- and it is part of the channel- with the Democratic Party that is, is not wholly behind the again now that the president has laid out, we ve waste, A lot of time getting to build back better, and I think had we done this six months ago, it would have been a heck of a lot better. we tend to in politics focus on the thing

that are easier and it was easier to get a bipartisan win, on infrastructure and to just leave out build back better, which is eighty percent of the presence agenda and we work and let that happen. But then that did lead to you know a public negotiation that was very much into the detail, so I dont, I have more hope, agreed that as soon as we passport by better, we will have a full in oh eight to be out there talking about how we're lowering prescription drug cost, however, getting childcare every family and those things will affect how people see, President Biden, but I also think we have to take out. I mean look the press, and under his leadership we have brought unemployment down to four point: two percent: that's a quarter before the ceo projected we would get to that level. Two percent! drop. We have created six million new jobs under this pressure in just ten months. We have cut child poverty and half through the child tax credit. So many things

that we have done and we need it Talk about it instead of talking about what we haven't done and we need to have a positive outlook on things because There's too much trouble and negativity and hate world today and people want to know what's possible and what's good out there, that we can look forward to remedy to feel it It's one thing to say: prescription drug prices will go down, but quite another thing you know to go to the pharmacy and pay less for insolent, that's exact. Right, and then that hasn't happened, and I think that so much missed from Switzerland, as though I am optimistic for that reason, and maybe that reason alone that just because, in a representatives The president are saying this is gonna happen. People cynical didn't quite believe it until it happens, and until I feel it in their own personal pocketbook. That's exactly right, and that is the difference between the by person infrastructure bill which don't

me wrong? It's great, a lover who take a while what things in it, but you know it's very different for somebody to say: okay, well, I'm gonna get a new road. Versus I'm going to be able to get childcare so that I can get on that new road and get back to work that it. Those are two different things and I think, build back better ask has the things that people will feel the wake up in the morning and they'll say wow. My life feels different today because I have childcare because I can pay for my insolent. You know all of these things. It is. That is what we're trying to get a tan. that's what the bill backed interact. Has that, frankly, I dont think the infrastructure bill has as wonderful as it is represented PAMELA Jive House, thanks for being the show it was real treat. Thank you, pray, pray talking to you,

my conversation with congresswoman Jaipur continues for members of the cap. they insider community to try out the membership free for two weeks had to cafe Dotcom slash insider again, that's capita come slash insider, so notice. Lately there had been a lot of questions about how you kind of take care of yourself it's too these terrible new cycles and with the worry about creeping untruth and the undoing of elections and the breakdown of some of our institutions- and it has people anxious and worried, not to mention the scourge of corona virus, which is still with us, And people ask you know how do you deal with that here too examples? This is a tweet from Twitter user Forbes to now,

is there any way not to get depressed and still stay focused on the erosion of democracy, not just in the states but everywhere, hashtag aspirin. here's another one from twitter user at Ronnie, Waidelich how, in the heck you decompress with all the Awful news, hashtag ass pre. For me, it's it's a few things. It's music and comedy. I liked to laugh a lot. I watch and download lots of shit. Who's in my family, but I had the same question in the last few days. I put slightly differently, and so maybe I should get some of the answers that you all gave. I posted simply on twitter. What key? you seen, and we got literally thousands of responses on that social media site. I note a few things when was popular categories of answer as to what keeps people saying were their pets, throw a dog and cat pictures which we appreciate it. Even if you hear a lot of people talked about quilting. Wouldn't you might have expected

people also mention books, hiking, cooking friends, dancing. That was one of my favorites and, of course, some people agreed with me about laughter, comedians and music. Hear some of my favorite responses. Maybe give you some ideas for yourself. He was a cheeky response tweet that set objection. Your honor assumes facts, not an evidence. I guess that's true. I don't know if you're saint or not

this answer came from Conny Schulz, who happens to be married to Senator shared Brown. What keeps her saying she responded: love flowing in flowing forth this responses from Amy Parker, chocolate, rye books, music and my quilting business. I spend a lot of time face first in beautiful quilts and their gorgeousness keeps me saying that does not mean I'm not thoroughly terrified also, and I think both can be true. At the same time, he was another answer which focused on nature. His presence and I live in the country on a quiet, rural road. Dear visit every day, it's quiet, oh, there is haunting geese, Pineau hawking horns, no sirens. The neighbours are few but kind and caring and fun

people talked about their Hobbes, one person talked about photography, my copy mechanism. This person wrote his photography and digital art. It pushes back what I can't control but is dominating my thoughts as I focus on what is within reach of my eyes and hands, and we got so many other beautiful responses as well. I think the important point of this is, please do worry about your country. Please do think about how you can make a contribution. Please do think about how to get other people to registered a vote and vote when the time comes, but it can't be twenty four seven. Just like work happy, twenty four seven! You have to do things for yourself to keep calm.

To keep saying to keep focused, so you can do all the other, hard work that needs to be done to help the country. That's it for this episode of statehood. Thanks again to my Congresswoman formula gylippus. If you what we do, and review the show, an apple pie casts or wherever you listen. Every positive review helps new listeners find the show semi your questions about news, politics and justice, tweet them to me. I prepared with the hashtag aspirin. or you can call and leave me a message at six hundred and sixty nine, two hundred and forty seven, seven thousand three hundred and thirty, eight that's six thousand six hundred and ninety two for

freak, for you can send an email to letters. A cafe dotcom stated is presented by cafe and the Vocs media podcast network. The executive producer is tomorrow, suffer the technical director. who's, David Tadich or the senior producers or Adam Waller and Matthew Billy, and the cafe team is David Kurlander, SAM Moser, Stayton, no Ozil, I not Weiner Jake Kaplan Chris Boyland, Sean Walsh, and now I'm at the shop or music by Andrew Doss. I'm your host Preet Bharara, stay tuned.