Heads dramas from life as a Google podcast. This clip is brought to you by state farm as they form we know what it takes to manage money, no matter the budget. That's why it's a good idea to consider stay farm. Why? Because state farm offers everyone. Surprisingly great rates like a good neighbour state farm. Is there it doesn't matter how much hero things you have in this life how many career opportunities you have. If you do not take care of your mental health and make it a priority, it is going to Take you out one way or another. You know you can't Outrun this forever is important too, to address it,

make sure you listen to new episodes of life as a gringo. Andy Michael took up had cast network available on the ice heart. Radio, app apple podcast or wherever you listen to pod casts a drama of life as a growing upon cast. This clip is brought to you by state bomb. State bomb offers everyone, surprisingly great rates on car insurance. It may feel a getting special treatment, but truth is surprisingly, great rates are for everyone sought to an aged today, like a good neighbour, state farm. Is there it doesn't matter how much material things you have.

this life. How many career opportunities you have? If you do not take care of your mental health and make it a priority, it is going to take you out one way or another. You know you can not out run. This forever is important too to address it. Make sure you listened to new episodes of life as a gringo. Andy Michael took up had cast network available on the heart radio, app Apple pod cast or wherever you listen to pod CAS why mass in spring and the Marquise heart goes, but as a coming together to bring you our first paranormal pie cast from discovery plus urban legends with the goes beyond this package will get to the bottom of some of the huge. Is urban led compliment

Mary, two per capita candy main withal, share our stories. We even talked experts about it. Maybe channels speak describe and listen wherever you get your pocket. From you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff. They don't want you to know a production of Iheart breed. welcome back to the show my name is met, my name is no, they call Ben rejoined, as always with our super producer, all mission, control, deck and most important

you are you. Are here not make this stuff? They don't want you to walk back in. First, part of our series. We explored the history of Guantanamo Bay, including the centuries long obsession that so many foreign powers have had with controlling it and as we said in our previous episode. For me, of the world today the word. Guantanamo no longer describes just that Southern Bay and harbour area in the nation of Cuba. The word instead means why and one thing: only the world's most notorious prison now we're diving into the deep water? What's going on in gizmo here are the facts, so from many many people in the? U S and across the planet. This detention centre occupies a strain

nebulous dodgy legal space, officially it open as a temporary facility and the first twenty people detained there. We hear them called detainees. All the time in the news they were transported there on January, eleventh, two thousand and two eventually over the next few years. Hundreds of prisoners from multiple countries, find themselves get move all in all. I've been around seven hundred and eighty detainees held it get mo at some point since it opened, and currently as we record this, There are thirty. Nine detainees still held there many of whom have never been charged for the crime nets, Remember former last episode, that's

after the ninety nine, these win asian refugees were kept theirs, as well as a few other people were kept their specifically in camp X, Ray though we're gonna be talking about, while Cambric x rays, one of the places the ordinary talking about but while the Reverend referencing right now as part of get, is camp x ray this outdoor? age like thing and after the attacks on new nor Pennsylvania, the Pentagon in September? two thousand and one the Bush administration. Bush junior, By the way I launched a what they called the war on terror, some starting to them, into the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp, which is often simply referred to his get more, was constructed in several stages. Eats. The eight a bit misleading, maybe for some people, because one time

Mugabe, the detention camp is the larger neighbours, operation and the cap itself is actually several different camps, some of which are closed some of which are more transparent than others. I camp X, Ray which you mention Matt Eyes, now closed this week that camp with the chain link fences. This was this was the site of the photographs that sparked international outcry, I am prompted the: U S public, to ask some very difficult questions about what what the ultimate end of this enterprise would be, but there were other guy. Two. Yes right came back, she was closed, but it was replaced by camp Delta, which had sub camps within at Camp ECHO, Camp Mgwana, which was

there are very controversial site in two thousand to this camp actually help children today yes and then you had these super luxurious sounding camp platinum, but I have a feeling I wasn't his fancy, it might sound. soon going to stay here. For one second you'll see videos, online of subsections of Camp Delta, we refer to as like site for site five things like Yes, you can find that, specifically in a vice documentary that was made in twenty fourteen of that's, where you may see that directly. We actually see the sign that says site five year. These are references. The names can become a little bit confusing because it refers to things like one through six detention. areas right end and wool, we'll see Those divisions work but no lie. I agree. I suspect you write about camp platinum, because these camps are these camps,

not places you wanna liver, hang out there not created equal, and then four levels of amenities were comforts. See amenities. We dont mean super posh snuff, like jacuzzi. Obviously, these details, These are housed in different areas depend upon their level of cooperation with guards and interrogators, and they also, nearly differ in their level of transparency until two thousand and eleven, the? U S public did not. No about something called camp. Five echo camp five, ECHO is not the same thing as camp I see how these names can be confusing. Can't five echo was what was called a. What is called disciplinary block, but then there is also echo right yeah.

and there was also cap strawberry fields- camp, no they camps go on, I have strawberry, feel sounds magical can I can I go there now battle, I I don't think I wanna go there It's true it and then this is all wrapped up in that, like you said Ben this idea of the war on terror which will get more into it, but- to me as always, sort of ended up feeling. Like the war on drugs and now it's a never ending war, Where were you never really make it? dead hidden in the goal, that you ve laid out war? I had an idea is a difficult war to win, because its incredibly difficult could argue virtually impossible to find a clear, ending point for a conflict with a concept right, and this means that there is not. There is not one

nation state that can sign a surrender right. There are maybe representatives of factions of groups who can sign over some cessation of hostilities, but they dont speak for everyone, because there is not one person who speaks for entirety of an idea. Nor does that one person speak for every other persons interpretation on that idea You know, there's also a great, quite ivories, this question in the past. The answer can hundred depressing, but how come there are more things the war on illiteracy? How can learn things a war on Euro, Lee preventable medical conditions. You know either was short lived war on poverty, but it didn't seem quite gain- is much traction as the national courts.

business in like a wolf, we'll talk a little bit more about the war on terror in a moment for knowledge. Focus on the arguments for the arguments against extraordinarily unusual detention camp in Guantanamo Bay. So much bull. Presidential administrations have disagreed on the status of this area. Gone back and forth on whether the clues the prison bureau web former president, Rocco Bomb in fact campaigned on the idea of closing the point. More bay, detention, camp and then later quite recently. Biden Administration has made some of the same signals. Then other presidential administration said? Not only do we need to keep it open, like former President Donald Trump, but we need to add more detainees. Fact, if I recall correctly,

exact line was we need a loaded up with more bad dude and, as we record, this controversy continues He continues because multiple human rights groups and journalist another investigators representatives of other countries have pointed to get more as an ongoing example of human rights abuses and they're, asking questions like it is their posing questions like if the? U S presents itself, the champion of human rights. Then why would it knowingly and over decades, Run in operation like this Why is with? First not just? Why does this exists but wise at the? U S! That is the wise at the? U S that created it and though their primary conscience She's hinge on things like torture,

our water, what were euphemistically referred to as enhanced interrogation techniques? If you wanted More about that do check out our earlier episode. Does torture work, it's not exactly walk through strawberry fields, but its impact. to be aware of the dilemmas inherent in acquiring information through through those methods Another primary controversy hinges on the very shady legal status of the prison again for the purposes of detaining. the- U S officially does not consider get more. U s soil! kind of an odd argument, because the Bush junior again for anybody outside of the? U S, it's it's often It feels weird to say. Yes, this is technically a meritocracy, but this guy's kid became president has doubtless president what this issue. We understand how we're deck and sowed anyway, then

President Bush Junior, I said that detainees in it will resume. Administration rather fear, hey it's important that it was, is administered administration, yes, neurons right right right, the other president. At the time that administration, I e this ministry, said detainees and get no are not entitled to any of the rights or any of the protections guaranteed under the Geneva conventions or guaranteed to people in the: U S: system of justice, but at the very seem time. They said the: U S: government still nonetheless treating all detainees systematically with these principles. of the Geneva convention. He's a weird thing. They say really is If anyone out there is interested in those legal arguments in hearing from

the horses mouths exactly why and how those legal arguments were made. I would highly recommend on Netflix, I believe it's called Turning point: nine eleven You series Multi part series that into that in depth in again in here. hear statements from the people who were making those legal arguments and in their reasoning right it right and there's another controversy here, which is the cost from two thousand and two right when this started to. Two thousand and twenty just last year it has caused the United States government, an estimated billion dollars and the yearly costs of imprisoning each individual. Just one at a time is thirteen in dollars is thirteen million dollars a year according to reporter Carol, Rosenberg

has been on this story since all the way back in two thousand to this, almost certainly makes Guantanamo quote the world's most expensive detention, pro which has seen a lot because the human species loves incarcerate people Why is it so much more expensive as it because of its remoteness and kind of disconnected ness from the rest of the country and will wait? They can trade with the country on the soil Zack which they occupy, so her yeah sure it makes a little weird and old. Tough stuff in when you need it any additional lincoln's, You know we're talking about a situation where the military's administering the prison. We are also talking about the legal proceedings that have been ongoing right and. the arguments. There are arguments, of course, in support of the cap n

The primary one hinges on the idea that if these detainees are released, They will immediately return to committing acts of terrorism. This is the hour the one out when the Obama administration used in it. adjective order to call for call for the closure of the camp on January. Twenty second, two thousand nine spoiler. It didn't happen you. Talk about that. there were some detainees who were sent away right. They were transferred to other countries are taken out of Guantanamo Bay, but not all of them. Because all Congress stepped in so Let's go. Let's go through that yeah outlets so the closure of Guantanamo Bay was delayed essentially blocked by opposition from Republicans, and there were some Democrats as well that were against closing, at least in Congress people. They argued that the cost of

housing, the detainees was absolutely worth it doing so in prisons. On U S soil would be eighth went to national security, so the isolation, the fact that occupy This weird can achieve ethical grey area was a feature not a bug for these folks. So twenty thirteen more than half of the camps. One hundred and sixty six detainees whom had already been cleared for release or transfer to other facilities, engage. in a hunger strike to draw attention to the condition there and to their situation, and we know what happened in response to that right. The united its government began force. Feeding the detainees right is, and also There's there's somebody! I don't want to lose here. The The jewels who were undergoing a hunger strike had been cleared, which means

that, in the opinion of the U S government, they were free to go once there could be fat once The government could find a place for them to go and ass forward. Twenty eighteen, president Trump that administration signs and executive order to keep the prison camp open? So domestically the? U S is divided on this and the The idea here is, there's something about this idea. I think we should mention which is the? U S: prison system in general, is not rehabilitation there are no shortages of stories about people becoming more well versed it, to commit. You know insert crime here, because it your time in prison and there's a good question does need treatment that people undergo Guantanamo, especially their innocence,

does it run the risk of radicalizing? these individuals- this is this- is an open question. But another open question. one that is in the news, a lot frequently is ok. These people are held for years without trial. In some case, when will there be a trial? If you, if you go back, origin story from episode, one this camp was built as a direct response. the attacks on September, eleventh than the initial concept, was straightforward. The initial concept, the gist of it, is the people responsible. These and other terrorist attacks will be found, apprehended and undergo it I'll meaning that justice would prevail or chaos and acts of terrorism. But now We see that the detainees Guantanamo Bay. whatever you're Y ever. Your stance in regard to this is the

do not legally have the rights that a prisoner in the? U S, justice system would in theory have. had to put in theory there, because a lot of those rights for prisoners or people had been incarcerated on paper no end up being implemented in practice, sure, and I mean Ben you say the idea, the question of whether or not prisoners in this situation are further radicalized hell, even how here in the EU states. Prison system are when they leave whether their rehabilitated or further radicalized women, that in the case of prison, but definitely like difficult for them to be reintegrated what you say, but I would say that the question around one dynamo, whether the radicalizing folks, a sort of an open and shut question. I feel like it's very clearly doing that especially when you're taking someone under false pretences often times are you. Maybe it's been a good faith attempt to

solve the problem, but oftentimes people get lost in the shovel and then you end up with folks. Generations of folks were radicalized that happens to their parents or their family. Are there brother sister anew whomever in in the case of Guantanamo? U S constitutional protections, things like due process or habeas corpus do not apply so for a quick and dirty explanation. Habeas corpus, literally trends, to have a body of, and this means that, if you have someone under arrest, they should be brought up judge her into court unless there are full grounds shown for their detention. So this is desirable, sense either. The purpose of it is to give someone who has been detained a chance to challenge

the legality of their detention charge me for something you know off, FAS or have I been detained? Ok, why ok ring? I need an attorney because I'm gonna get a trial in my being team, brutal yeah, but its immediate. That's what that is yeah, that's what an individual should have daddy's devil it would be very weird if someone a police officer or any one else, just stopped you and may do not go anywhere you know there's threat of gun violence. If you defy them. and they will tell you why are being stopped. If that's just not to be it's a bare minimum for human rights in the argument is then justify the means, and all of that gets It's pretty clear that people are getting lost in the shovel, and their innocence are absolutely being scooped up and kept without due process. You now under pretty nasty conditions, which again, I would argue, could actually mean

a non radical person into a radical person. It could make the United States a real, quick enemy, Why didn't you feel to start yeah? That's it making earlier exactly because how would it is a good question to ask so what does it mean? If you don't have these protections? Well being? The government can do things like keep evidence against your secret evidence just involved in your case secret, and it could take evidence derived from torture. And could hold you if you are a detainee indefinitely. There is no end date to your sentence. Chrome is banned and also means there could be no evidence against just cause. It's a secret. It's a black box sue critics of this ring critics of the waves organise currently Contain you you'll, hear them argued that these military commissions military commissions, cyber

our tribunals organised outside of U S in international law by the o d by the Department of Defense, so critics are saying that these military commissions are explicitly created. to evade those normal rules of notches million but military courts, and it me surprise. Some were fellow conspiracy realist today, to learn that almost two decades later some of these people. in Guantanamo. Right now have never even had a trial. What are we talking about will tell you after word from our sponsor this episode of stuff. They don't want you to know was brought you by Monday dot com building had cast like this. One will recover a whole bunch of different topics requires a lot of research in every requires a lot of collaboration and without the right teamwork it would never work. So if you're looking too the culture of collaboration, transparency and ownership of work, the rights off work and help you do

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calm, work, o s, gonNA, Monday, dot com and start your free fourteen day trial. Today, heads dramas from life as a Google podcast. This clip is bad so you by state farm as they form, we know what it takes a man. Money, no matter the budget, that's why, when it comes to taking care of what we love most in the way, we want it's a good idea to consider state farm. Why? Because they farm offers everyone, surprisingly gray rates on car insurance. If you need to ensure your car, don't hesitate, sought to a state farm agent and take a look at solutions that match your knee, AIDS is easy. Like a good neighbour state farm is there and it really was seeing

Hurricane Maria. That I think like shook up something inside of me and just kind of made me realize something that was lacking. You know, I mean obviously just seeing the destruction seeing the places that I grew up visiting. Ah, you haven't been destroyed, seeing me pain, people's faces, and here again, voices and people that look like me and my family now is something that should be a chorus of that I ever the camp verbal as completely, but it death. They woke something up in me that you know I realized,

and I've been I've been missing this. You know that this, like feeling of connection to something so much bigger than yourself. You know, make sure you listen to new episodes of life as a gringo. Andy Michael took up had cast network available on the ice heart, radio, app apple podcast or wherever you listen to pod, CAS Aids Dramas from life as agreeing upon cast this clip is brought to you by State Farm state bomb offers everyone, surprisingly gray rates on conscience. Yes, for real, it aims to achieve car home a both. It may feel it getting special treatment, but the truth is state farm offers. Everyone, surprisingly, rates with solutions to meet your car insurance needs, whatever It may be so talk to a state bob aided today and discover surprisingly great rates to fit any budget like a good neighbour. State farm is there and it really was seeing

Hurricane Maria there. I think, like shook up something inside of me this kind of made me realize something that was lacking. You know, I mean obviously just seeing the destruction seeing the places that I grew up visiting. Ah, you haven't been destroyed, seeing you pain people's faces and here again, voices and people that look me and my family. That was something that should be my core i7, that I really can't verbalize completely, but it deathly woke something up in me that you know I realized and I've. Been I've been missing this. You know that this, like feeling of connection to something so much bigger than yours, if you know make sure you listen to new episodes of life as a gringo- Andy Michael Tudor, podcast network available on the icon, radio, app apple podcast or wherever you listens upon kiss

where it gets crazy in what is now a fact that nor before we get to the trial, I think it important to note that, regardless again, and if your stance on prisons in general were and get blunt, Honnami Bay Detention Camp, in particular its not just human rights groups such as journalist, talking about torture at this facility, people who worked there have come forward with this same claims this? This is something that you know. Four administrations are very supportive of Guantanamo. This is at the very least, not a good look in some cases its. These are damning accusations just last year January. Twenty second, Guiding Jeems Mitchell psychologist interrogator prisons at Guantanamo Bay. Detention centre testify about

risk. Human rights violations that occurred at this at this facility. Why wise Mitchell Important, because he didn't just interrogate prisoners himself? He also created, the CIA is post, timber, eleventh interrogation programme and the stuff that he talks about is pretty gruesome s right. He described in graphic detail, how detainees were tortured whilst still not be. cars are the crime or afforded that you know the kind of treatment that even the most heinous criminal would get you now on? U S, soil torture, including the use of tactics, water boarding we now have anyone seen zero dark three or any of these films that MT around Lee more on terror. Probably seen debate, of that money, burials

positions that we ve seen the bully their photographs of that from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal is well folks, like you now, in these kind of being forced to stand on a very narrow bucket for a very long time or being forced into these very uncomfortable opposes all kinds of late deprivation torture in terms of sonic torture, All of that kind of stuff many, the detainees at Guantanamo were first out in these black sites, which we ve got. A whole episode are more may multiple ones about and created by the CIA don't officially exists or they might have been held elsewhere by them, Jerry and they were also tortured before being transferred one tonne of there's no official chain of custody right or record showing where what happened to them and their well to use that legal loophole of Guantanamo, not officially being on. U S soil, to justify that, even if that have happened elsewhere,

it's all very, very slippery, The lawyers involved are all required to sign India's non disclosure agreements that prevent them from talking about any claimed acts of torture like the Netflix documentary just because it shows you Theo, The wording of the these. Types of enhanced interrogation that they were using and they were using them, how they got the government to sign off on it and you can watch it What was that one famous line like I see no problem with this? I regularly stand at my desk for hours at a time share. Her that's when you might remember, but you ve also the architecture we build, the attorney say what we know. There is a very big difference between attaching Electra

someone's testicles and shocking. Someone like that or just you know, slapping someone really hard in the face it wasn't that bad is. You know I had to be an open palm. You can only be certain a certain number of inches away when you slapped them. You know what else wow the banality of evil right and then the idea that overall, in the things, the greater good doing these things, while I know go in the moment, will result in saving people's lie. Such the argument and that's something that a lot of people spend a lot of debating again think we mention this in our first part of the series. Please do out the episode on whether or not torture works it an important question and You may be surprised by

the dilemmas involved. The ticking time bomb scenario that is so often glorified in popular film in fiction doesn't as as often as may be. Screenwriters would like you to believe me remember a lot of those folks are just trying to sell a film not to tell you the truth, so these black sites do This episode on black sites, the outer similar list of advantages right because they are not again there not on your soiled are not officially acknowledged. They don't have oversight from the usual institutions that would be responsible for those oversights. So it me interest somewhere. Fellow conspiracy, real is to know that the? U S government has in some. He's is acknowledged that what took place was torture One example would be Abu Zebediah, who is

palestinian man was captured by U S. Forces in Pakistan and he was tortured in multiple times in a series of CIA Black sites, and this is before us. Saved from public knowledge by the way were confirmed, another employers, Mohammed I'll call Tawny. I was ease, body national. I, his military chargers were actually dismissed because he and his legal team and made the case he had been tortured at Guantanamo Suez Military just their dismissed. You might say: where is he now? He is still in prison and, like. I'll call tardy in very real way. The world is still waiting to see what happens next, just a few days ago and September thirteenth this year, the current judge in the trial of the five men

detained who are accused applauding the attacks on September eleventh, this judge said that the actual trial was at least another year away, so at least that- everything works out, which historically, it never has in this case, judges, one colonel Matthew in may call, and he took over this case. Just a month ago, Disease Last August, right now he's in the midst of pre trial hearings and in It is important to note that Karuna virus caused a delay of more than a year and a half so they're trying to pick up where they left off blights this e. He makes a point when he says it's gonna take a while to get here. Because again, these are not the types of trials you would expect to see. We're in any. U S! Court detainees do not have a choice: Floyd, they are required to use the lawyers.

signed them. They are not allowed to your point map to see the evidence against them or not all of it, and when it comes to a conviction, you only need two thirds of the jury, for they can That's not the way that you courts typically work, even if you were acquitted, even if you are found not guilty or innocent you releases Well, nigh guaranteed were even in the: U S army. We hear about people getting public defenders now that can take a little time and how maybe heads equivalency of the idea of everyone gets you now the same treatment under the rule of law. That is clearly not the case there, people that can have word attorneys that are, you know, much more likely to get them off for something by in a situation like this, when you're a detainee not only do not have that. Ways of an attorney the option to hire your own attorney, the backlog of the attorneys, that you do do? Have access to can be

here's right to even get like your case heard, I mean the people, to talk to anybody for years? Sometimes what can we but generally doesn't take two decades. After you know a crime, but maybe, but it can be years without having any kind of resolution or any kind of forward movement? In someone's case, we ve been here all the time tat people that have been detained for years without me, now any kind of hope for above exoneration We have been the biggest thing years. Weapon said: Think of the one that's couch in the middle when you have, trial you're attorney gets to argue against the evidence in the points that the opposing attorney the prosecution makes. If you're, though events yeah and then the concept of discovery, which means that you are able to see that evidence so imagine getting imagine a worst case scenario and we're just go with hypothermia,

was here, imagine you're innocent and you have. to have a name that is very similar to some like from the perspective of someone who does not speak your native language. You have a name that looks too. Damn varies, to the name a known terrorist. You get scooped up, What did I do and they say you know what you did know really tell and they say: oh no, not going to, but we're going to tell us what you did and maybe here a random taxi driver jets picked up No, and maybe to speak to the letter. They say: will I'm not? I can't tell you the evidence they have again do you know what I mean in the taxi driver example by the way, folks is a real example that matches reference, so I would also like This is a little bit of a tangible, but this question I ve been I'm moving over recently. If the law is indeed MIKE Guantanamo aside the deserts every second. if the law in the? U S is

indeed equal then why are some lawyers paid more than others wired really expensive lawyers that seem to get, even the most you know when the people who have all the evidence stacked against wired those very highly paid lawyers able to get someone off, whereas less expensive. Why wouldn't I gotta go I'd love to hear your perspective, especially if you work in the legal sphere tomorrow. If you work is a lawyer or you workin litigation, where you work in the criminal justice system sure, but the really quickly put a pen in my point that Austrian me there are classes of detainees that are referred to as forever prisoners some of which have never been charged and have been there since nine eleven. Has been twenty years now so, it is now a common and bits little bit troubling is more than a little bitch,

and wool we'll talk it. Let's talk about that right now is more effectively to look into the fate of the detainees there are the reports of torture. This may need to be its own episode. And, in the meantime, do check out that the very important question whether or not torture actually colonel, who works a part of the hold up on the trial. These due to objections by lawyers, defending to individuals, Walid been Natasha and Rumsey being our sheep there These lawyers are challenging Judge Mccall. same here. You qualify. To reside over these cases. These are death penalty cases. A me and we need you to suspend the proceedings until you're, familiar with all President, all the legal proceedings leading up the time you were given the case in August I- and this includes they are-

you, the rulings of the three other judges previously involved. In the same case, we record scratch heard that right, there have been three other judges before Colonel Mc Caully none of which actually brought this to trial. None We call on the fourth judge to preside, on a court in the conspiracy case against college Sheikh Mohammed was the ledge mastermind, the nine eleven attacks for other men who are accused of helping plot those hijackings and again, those attacks resulted in almost three thousand people dead in New York and Pennsylvania and at the Pentagon, the most recent d any to leave, got out white recently, in July of this year, his knee Abdul Latif Nasser December in national and he had been we find it was released this year. I he had

cleared to be released for years ago in twenty sixteen he was held for nineteen years was not now never will be charged with crimes. So what does this mean for the future of Guantanamo Bay? A pause for were from our sponsors, we'll be back. I'm July Mass Spring and the Marquise heart goes, but as a coming together to bring you our first paranormal pie cast from discovery plus urban legends with the ghost brother he's the on this package at the bottom of some of the huge is urban legends Continental

Mary, two per capita candy main withal, share our stories. We even talked experts about it. Maybe channels speak describe and listen wherever you get your pocket. There's a reason podcast or popping up everywhere, podcast make you money and Springer is the easiest way start apply cast. You could literally recorder. first episode today, Speaker has. The tools we need to record added, publish and yeah monetize your aghast all in one place and its free, so tell your story money, while doing it start your podcast for free now, at spray dot. Com, slash make money! That's s! P, r e k, e r dotcom slash, make money from the EU

pot gas network. The reviews are in and audiences agree. I hardly used number one pint cast. Aftershock is the show. You need two beings making available of five stars. I love it is hard to find the pot gas that is truly immersive, and this one takes the king. We like died on the art, a roller coaster, so many hopes and downs twists and turns five stars someone's running towards us gets it about. Now. Has me at the edge of my see every one hears me listening to. It stops to listen and then subscribe themselves. You owe me afterward

he did. You owe me the truth. Heart stopping and I can't wait for more strapless and makes us think we're coasting along really racing to an abrupt end. Come with me and we're gonna. Do you aboard piece by piece, aftershocks, dying, stairway counties, David harbouring Jeffrey dean? Martin comes the island and been the series everyone is talking about. Following on Yahoo, radio, app apple pie cast wherever you get, your past outwards taken from actual user reviews. And we have the courage to several times in these episodes- You ve heard us talk about people like Abdulla, tease sir, who were oh, who were cleared for Release Uncle SAM was ready to let them leave Guantanamo Bay so widely and abstain there for years. If that is indeed the case, if the gun

meant that apprehended you says you're good to go. Why are you still stuck there? It's because the? U S, authorities of straw, gold to figure out how to transfer detainees, from the base, even when they wanted them to get out. The big stumbling block. Two big stumbling blocks here. First, there is the problem of getting other countries to guarantee humane treatment so like if you are For example, if you you have been apprehended in your now baby and national, and you It's government says: okay, this person has not committed a crime we are going to send them away to freedom. We want to send them. Twelve Vania. They can't send him to Albania unless there is an agreement, saying we're going to treat them humanely and then, if they try to get a third country to agree to resettle these folks, they have this.

that that third country, that agrees is not only will we allow them in this country, we will also prevent them, returning to hostile activities against the United States. So you can't just say you know: here's a plane ticket go nuts you after you, they have to have a place to go and so these negotiations can go on for years and years and years after everybody, He agrees this person could leave compounding these complications. Let's consider the case of these five Taliban, nurse and twenty fourteen were transferred to cutter. This was an exchange deal. These happen a lot. They don't always make the news, but they you'd be surprised. How often this happened. Five Taliban associated prisoners transfer decoder. In exchange for the release of a U S. Soldier bow bird dog and he was held captive in Afghanistan and Pakistan for food,

five years after he deserted the army. So four of those five prisoners get sent. The cutter have new, jobs, their members of the new Taliban government and Afghanistan and Justice February The White House announced its conducting. What they call an internal review of how to clues Guantanamo, not whether to keep it open, but how to close it and one of the big step Now that your people want is closed, when a big steps they advised taken first is to get rid of. Military tribunals and allow the deal J, the? U S, department of Justice to reach plea deals with people have been accused of crimes, including the suspected masterminding, nine eleven, so how you. How do you think that the american public would react to that idea of a plea deal? I would say, no,

well, they would feel that way to me as well as issues we, because when you make a plea deal, you know that there is evidence against. You were generally this not always, but the reasonably deal happens is because you know it looks really bad you're, probably gonna get a super intense sentence, so you take a plea deal in order to lessen that sentence. That's what I Please deal is right right. You agree to plead guilty to see, or all of the charges against you in exchange or some leniency, Intendant Senior a series of concessions. Yes, so like so like one example would be in. This is just a very general example. One example would be if you are already in prison for several heinous crimes, right and you and then you know your time maybe another murder, or something like that- was a molten murdered multiple people

then you could make a plea deal to assisting in. being further murders in exchange for life in prison instead of execution like that's it that's a very extreme case. It up one other plead eels are just wouldn't fairly petty crime, smaller. Much smaller felonies weary, it's much it's more fact, even getting a case through the system. And to have. Someone accuses something. Take a plea deal rather than having to go through a full trial right, so you can get you can it's In this case, it's like, ok I ve done all this has been all this time, rather than do a full trial. We'll just do play deals well, what does pretty often involve giving somebody else up or providing useful information, not necessarily necessarily it can, but sometimes is just a move. The case through court, especially in like a petty crime leg,

the implication being that, if you take this to a jury, then these sentence will reflect that you have inconvenience the system. And that's like that's you don't- have sufficient evidence right right, something like that and that's again, as we have seen that happens all the time. But these are not this one. Be new for these happening. So the idea of a plea deal on the part of people associated with these September, eleventh attacks. You can see how that seems how they can seem. Fundamentally, deeply of to reassure people whose loved ones died in those attacks food is loved ones, died as a result of the ensuing wars that followed in the wake of those attacks, and they take- Please deal from someone who was tortured and then to get a plane from someone was tortured, so this is just scratching the surface of the currency

We should ensure remains intensely controversial, either way. You look at it remains disturbing for that. People for the survivors of the September. Eleventh tax and of other terrorist attacks. You can understand how justice such as is seems often to be an ever moving goalpost and for critics of the prison and for relish of detainees who were held, therefore gears without being found in fact guilty of any crime in some cases were being charged for a crime there's no way to recover the time that was lost, and you don't make any mistake about this. there were innocent people subjected to this treatment. How do we know what we know because of the state multiple government officials. In truth, Nine, in fact of former Bush administration official explicitly publicly said this is

case, his name mourns Wilkerson, former CEO S, chief of staff, to Secretary of State Colin Powell, and he said, way back in two thousand and nine that he believed me detainees Guantanamo Bay should have been released and when he said this, He noted that he believed it happened not by design, but because you asked Where's his were unable to, in his words, distinguish enemies from non combatants. So now, that's where we are: the world waits parts of quantum mobile the facility and the legal processing, it's the legal process ease it pursuing. They remain hidden from the public eye, and for some this is just a this very evil and its committed for the greater good of national security, but for others it is solid proof

but when it comes to Guantanamo Bay, there's something the Eu S doesn't want you to know so. you think about this. I mean it is obviously a very sticky, discussion. I mean there's a lot wrapped up in terms of human rights violations in terms of an It is even mean to have a prison hated somewhere outside of the jurisdiction of our own country's government when it's getting it when it's convenient, exactly do, as I say, not as I do when I feel like it, please Now you can write to us on the internet. We are in all of the usual places. Yes, you can find his unannounced We can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. We would like to recommend our Facebook community page. Here's where it gets crazy, but wait then Matt know might be saying. I hate sipping, this social needs, I'm a social platte.

teetotaller. Wherever will I go to reaching? Well, you can give us a girl phone call as right you can talk to. Directly from your mouth to our ears via the digital magic will, the telephonic magic of technology- We have a phone number in everything. Your number is one. Eight three three std w. Why t care you have three minutes to leave a message say whatever you'd like give yourself a cool, nickname, hopefully not your actual name, metal the anonymity a little higher the levels of anonymity higher. Just in case you know, somebody wants you haven't, you got on. That's not gonna happen by the way, one more recommendation, if you're still listening, check out the guard and video. My brother's keeper of former Guantanamo detainees, his guard in their unlikely friendship it a providing an heartwarming story about two men that She had some shared experience in bondage, really great

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