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you were forced to psychic powers and government, conspiracies histories, riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know. I will come back to the show. My name is met. My name is now, and then this is stuff. They don't want you to know what it is. Always. Thank you so much for tuning in your weaken doing a lot of interviews recently guys. Now we have I'm I'm enjoying the state. I guess we wonder how you guys feel about this state of interviews. Interviews fate I got us haven't I've been enjoying. It is especially when we get to learn new things and talk to interesting individuals right. Yes, in previous episodes, we spoke with the author Brian Turkey, about sports conspiracies today,

We are interviewing named MAC Johnson, who is the director writer and star of a film coming out today, as if you're listening to this the day comes out today, September. Sixteen as we record this episode, yes, it's called operation avalanche and it's it's very difficult for me to describe saying that this movie encompasses bigger it's a movie about making a movie with by using their real names but its complete fiction. It's incredible right, here here are the facts on July, 20th one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine, the course of human history fundamentally changed when Neil Armstrong became the first man to set foot upon the moon, Buzz Aldrin. Did it a couple minutes afterwards right at once once these people went there that one time on the APOLLO eleven mission than the official

story is that there were five more mission, so a total of six APOLLO missions with two astronauts making contact on the surface each time for total of twelve people on it, and then we stopped going to the moon right, yeah, those up into the moon, so I went out you guys, operation, avalanches about how a moon landing could have been Hoechst just I would ask you guys, and we would ask you audience members to let us know what are you guys think two guys think somebody faked the moonlight I hope it was Stanley Cubic, according to the latest polls that can find on this roughly seven percent of the american Voting Public believe, the moon landing was Hoechst. However, that believe in it landing is pretty popular and other soon, as well, so it's more common there. What we're gonna, just into our interview with Matt Roy now and then we'll come back.

Then, and C4 appeared ass if anybody's had their opinion swayed. What do you think the? I love that idea? Quick note. No, you were not with us for this interview, true, but you are here with us now through the magic of time, travel, audio terms, We argue, we have an actual time machine here in the house of Works offices that we only use in case. Of emergencies like this, because it operates on blood and blood magic, yeah, yeah yeah- over the magic I and quick caviar, appear. There are spoilers inside of this interview, so listen caution and you'll see them As you know, ladies and gentlemen, we are here with Matt Johnson, the director, CO, writer and STAR of Operation avenue so Matt

We have to know man would lead you guys, specifically you in your co writer down this moon landing rabbit hole. When we first started. The plan was just to make another fake documentary about some great historical moment because we had such as for the first on the thirties, and we really really really really like that formal approach of sort of the real shake document tree by Neil fight filmmakers, like that that was just so interesting. And ass. We started looking at different. Moment in history. The kind of do this about it just became so obvious so quickly the moon landing. If it was, faith is like the most incredible movie ever made, and so if you're trying to make a story about people, movies. Then why?

and have them make the greatest movie ever seen that nobody actually note the movie and its a bit. It was almost as soon as it was mentioned, or let's do the fig moonlighting like that. With that, then we were good like we just new and and oddly enough just that ideal was so powerful that it gave us energy to just keep going I'm going in going to die when, when we thought up here who's, this is ridiculous, we do know, we can certainly relate with that drive that you get when there's some kind of mystery like that out there that just gonna hangs in front of you like a carrot, we definitely understand and our line of work yeah, and so it so clever for too for it to take that a documentary form about the year, we see it this way. Man, it's a really, is the greatest movie ever made if the moon landings are fake, and strange in the course of our research of extreme,

This story has captivated people for nearly half a century now, and we have to ask just to get get this elephants or lunar rover in the room out of the way real quick Do you think so? Some people believe that the APOLLO eleven MU landing was fate. I can tell you I, the major reasons at that conspiracy endures. The way that many others are a bit more laughable and are not nearly as popular is because of its innocence and the fact that there really are although there were some sticks to the appalling mission, and it was very important that a certain time nowadays, it almost doesn't matter if they did go the moon or they didn't geopolitically like there's? No, it's not like saying. I believed that nine eleven was hit by job or saying and committing back that J F K. Wasn't what happened?

like those have real consequences if their true, whether not true where the moon living beings take, is just so goofy, and it's just so it's almost as you see our film like it's just a great story. If is that true, like you, didn't, go the moon and expected the matter really amazing story, and it's not that the social cost for saying you believe it is not quite as high a thing. You know you think George Bush had something to do with the nine eleven attacks, like you just you just don't pay the same price for believing it and it's more funds and believe me personally. I do not think the moonlight was vacant. All nobody, not on my team, though that even a little bit, but that's actually won. The reason why we wanted to make the movie was because we thought how wicked would it be if we can make a movie that is convincing enough to make people think the movement was sick, even though that not, we believe, like that

such an amazing like trick elevating challenge for us, but I don't know, I guess those two ideas are not really that related, but, as I said, that's why I think it is yours and what people believe it also comes from a very american cowboy notion of I know better than my government very, very popular right, have you ever been lying to me that everything, I'm being told the steak? I think I think that also plays into a big time. I did you get more people in the coming elections cycle. Talking about this type of mass government lying MAX government conspiracies than you ever ever yeah. I absolutely agree with that. I think that's it. I think that is a fair and accurate prediction thing that we discuss the we really enjoyed about the film we were watching it is that biggest question for any anybody

fine critical thinking to that can a conspiracy theories. How could thousands and thousands of people keep a secret, like this. If it did happen for so long and we now face, here maybe you can talk a little bit about this from our discussions in what he thought was so clever about how the film handles we have said. This is the point we ve grappled with when discussing this conspiracy in particular. In do When you give your CIA, presentation in your explaining how you're going make the whole thing happened in there's only a handful of people that are going to have to be involved, including the astronauts I was just going astronauts. I was just going oh wow in that way that you You have to have mission control involved. You have to convince the astronauts just to read the script that without biggest challenge was trying to

figure out how to make that border. The conspiracy well, because nowhere where we looked online, people who are really into this conspiracy had an effective answer for that and still coming up, that and figuring out how like, like a junior. See. I would be able or something like that up was one of our big. Went like we're really really happy with that, and I mean, although it seems saying it does have a lot of credibility to it. As I said what we spend a lot of time at NASA and it was important to us that what matters the CIA is actually So speaking of NASA list, about the Johnson Space Center. It looks like you're filming inside that facility, and it looks like you're interviewing People- is the was I really happening, result onset known

that's all real. We I mean I was a grad student in Toronto at the time and we and said we are making a duck three for school about an idea, sixties and we went down from Canada and spent about a week and we shot most of the movie that you see at NASA. In actual I mean we digitally turns into a man state. They sat at which it was at that time, but that we saw the whole thing in Dagestan Another real mass is that they really have the job that they stay. That way. Like that. All can be real. That's insane yeah, that's that's! That's fascinating, and also by This isn't even a question but more of a leader, and I want to commend you on the pitch perfect. You'll tone It is, it is exactly of the time which I thought I was Seen in some earlier interviews, your talk a little bit about the process of that filming

but while we're on the subject of film itself, we have to ask: why do you think Stanley Coup break is so important to the context of this conspiracy. Really big reasons. Why stand the corporate has such a big deal when it comes to conspiracies in general, but also the move any conspiracy? The first one is he was insanely reclusive here, people already knew him as a secret cheaper as an unbelievably secretive guide, keep famously burn. Just two thousand one said what they said: a shooting you didn't want people, ass, if he did, he had behavior but did makes sense from a certain point of view, but could be twisted in such a way when you go all tat. This guy's operating at a different level than the way people are imaginary, does into the torn reputation that he had of pouring so much work into the things that he did. I think aloud

will you again if he could do the impossible. I like, when you stand a covert movies were coming out of that time. They were always pushing the boundaries technically of what could be done. No other filmmakers were nearly famous for doing some? It just think those Well, elements came together very well. German came a central figure. In the in the moonlight, a conspiracy, I really didn't hurt that he was making three thousand one at the exact same time, yeah and any burned the set I mean come on two incidents, her like what exactly will? Ok, those just let's continue on the coup recline here. Let's talk about room to thirty seven and the shining we watch room treated seven at TAT. I think it without in twenty eleven are not unnatural. We, but we went back to that a couple of times when we were writing this movie, just because he was the first time. I heard that

with definitely most eloquent combination of elements that I never seen. I love that goal and did you, also watch Capricorn one Josh wasn't I had seen Capricorn one well for that Alzheimer's, and mostly because it that you're Funny Movie Bike but yeah yeah We also watching, like this one, a dialogue in operation Atalanta, these just straight up lifted from Capricorn one. Look closely like, which I do a lot of fun. Lighting Texas to that movie. Yeah, I was gonna call Marges there, the sum of the visual shots to of were watching the. The moon landing on the televisions outside on the street amateurs it's beautiful manner. I was its pictures of it as I'm watching your film she went out. This is great men take her to another question here. So. The movie was shot in twenty fourteen, but

somehow managed to interview James E web, who died as the region decades in ninety ninety two and get an autograph from Cuba who died in eighteen, ninety nine. How did that we achieved this you? Don't you, twenty years pursued? I think that the James Web stuff and there yellow Sunday. We really proud about over waited focus to them. Who break I mean, obviously, those done with digital attacks, but that complexity with which we had to treat them because talking about extremely old cellulite that were then Cutting digital effects on and trying to combine the two together make it almost impossible that that bit, that the genius who did it again interest in Russia whose only affects supervisor and who made them who made both those sequences, happened mostly from photographs but turned to change what stuff and when he retired as well.

If it did it was, it was lose, lose footage that we got and then did a ton of manipulation to get me interact with those people botanical brick piece. It was like the six months of work and the fact that a whole article in this mass movie maker megabit about exactly how we did it by them, but that was the most challenging thing on the film. By far from a technical point of view, I mean that was because again cubic was was a recluse, any didn't let people film, especially during making two thousand one. So we had no footage to do that forest dumptruck on, so we had to make it out of photographs, and that was an interesting like killed himself doing that, but I am, but I mean we're all unbelievably: drought and academical brick literally, is alive and walking. In talking in our movie just so you know I just for a little context, then I also make a video show where we added archival footage lot anyway.

When those scenes come up it just hit us really hard see the amount of work that has gone on screen, please sort of stuff they don't want you to know is brought to you by native hey, you got I am sitting here looking at my wife's native deodorant that she loves it. Is Africa caught and White peach she is this thing. Every day she's tried a ton of four deodorants, and this is the only one that she says works for her because its aloof free, it's baking soda free and it doesn't irritate her arms and it smells great because odorants with aluminum can actually form like these plugs that clog up your sweat lands to keep you from sweating doesnt seem trailer or healthy, so natives deodorants are made without any aluminum sea can feel better about what you're putting on your body. Not only does it work,

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I share fractional share quantity; can be entered out to three decimal places. As long as the value of the order is at least one cent dollar based, it can be entered out too to decimal places. So orders are subject to an activity assessment, be from point zero. One dollar two point: zero three per one thousand dollars a principle: Fidelity brokerage services. Member, and why I see civic So let us was keep on the technological advances in film production, video production. Do you ever worry that if We can achieve this kind of stuff do you worry that may be the CIA or NASA could be working on something similar to operations zipper right now, I mean they originally with why I think they serve this conspiracy,

endured. I actually dont think there's enough of a reason for NASA lying to the public at any level and I can tell you the reason why an action I learned this while I was at NASA and not sure like what you are taken. Something like you know, NASA hiding aliens are NASA hiding technology or any of these types of things, but this plain: things are really interesting way to meet it, maybe you're. Ok, there's no way now is hiding think that if there is the matter is unbelievably underfunded. They aren't there. There literally closing departments, like every year over here, they're losing money and they're losing jobs at its because they have the trouble asking the government to a hundred percent fund, but more money and in the nineties, I don't remember it, but there was some an alien. There were, like you know in the news.

Which they all wait. There's some evidence that maybe the some of and NASA wanted investigate it and the government gave them something like hundred million dollars like they gave them so much money just to check out this, like tragically news story. Just this idea. Maybe there was alien life, So the notion that NASA the intentionally. Hiding things are they discovered is so suicidal like they were Never ever do that because it is, they found anything any evidence of anything at all. They would be the first people to go to New York, they look what we found just because they need money and they so happy to get funding because they discovered something good. But as your question about like video technology and maybe the CIA, using like in a fake you know wars and like the kind like wag, the dogs stuff, I'm sure seems like these days. The governments don't need Video evidence to create

you know environment with which to go to war? I mean no smoking guy like the like this, like the weapons of mass destruction during the Iraq war. It like. I don't think that is the only this year need some manufactured video ever in a way that that you would, you should to take the moonlight, and I think they have a lot since more rudimentary wasted for people into doing stupid stuff, yeah, I'm with you on that when that, because the I think one of the trouble things that can strike me, I guess the primordial soup, from which some of these kind of conspiracy birth is an environment of rampant distrust and, in many ways a well earned distrust

some government agencies, but the CIA and NASA are very, very, very different entities as most of our listeners no are usually yeah, yeah and our audience in our audience and now Matt and Arcos, nor myself all of us are found by learning about the very clandestine or underground operations by the CIA and other intelligence agencies, and there are numerous CIA operations references in the film but operate Avalanche is not one of them. So, what's the significance of the title there You know that it's that breathed into an a whole other projects that that I'm making right now is a television series, and I mean for me to it you mean you don't think I'm insane we we take

the movie operation avalanche one, because I mean it was briefly Matt in his own mission and thinking about the cool name. More importantly, that plays into a television theories that I'm making right now, for oh yeah. That's if I'm Craig does that, nor the show the ban to show the ETA correct and in any one of the episodes under one of the banned, the show what you're just a comedy serious. We might in my best friend sneak a movie into Sundance called operation avalanche and which is very important that the movie, because creation Avalanche Again- I know it sounds insane by the by I learned the reason that it was named exactly exactly we're inside this year and to check it out were huge comedy fans as well. So. We ve explored some of the we ve explored some of the genesis through the origin story of what became operation avalanche, and we just found out

cool Nedda cognitive twist on it. We will in the course of looking into the ideas of moon landings being faked, we also ran into a question that a lot of people have asked and for me personally, it's up there. The same question earlier in order of importance. It's up. That is as important as the question about how thousands people could keep a secret operation, village answers so I was, grace and elegance, my swear should be something that all of our listeners vast US, which is the following if it is Full did indeed land on the moon. Then why Did they stop going? Why were the only the six missions with two astronauts on the surface? Each time that I didn't do exactly what I was talking about before when it comes to NASA and their funding and that bad

they were only getting money because there was such a national interest in going on that mission, there was a light, be all of Amerika was tuned in to see America beat the Russian Space Programme. That's what everybody wanted, but then once it was done like nobody cared about the site, perfect ramifications of that mission to them it was just a race and as soon as we won, I should say weeks of Canadian. But if I had one, then all of a sudden the public interest vanished and in fact me famous story which afforded but like APOLLO twelve people were calling. Their television providers, to complain that the live broadcast of APOLLO dwelt with interrupting I love Lucy rerun so like people were so disinterested after they had landed once just big

permits are absolutely no red like. Why would you be funding this multi billion dollar programme when, when the public is aiming to start getting you elected is not getting vote is not drawing eyeball. People just didn't care and that's why all the sudden emissions were words were seized, because one I mean, if you take the necessary Yes, they have a very different opinions. In fact, one of the cool things that I learned what I was doubtless than that, because they only did those situations there. We didn't learn nearly as much as they wanted to, because, as one and told me, the moon is actually very variegated. It then extremely variegated surface, so they landed one specific spot. But it's not uniform at all. They wanted to go all around the moon, find all night to understand a building. They just don't know the, but they had to stop now what the scientific application of having a perfect geometry?

the moon would be I dont know by, but they had to stop a public interest that it had. Nothing to do with. You know like Conspiracy, you're, like oh yeah, we can keep this lie up anymore, no way it was. It was coming because the public had dearly track and I'm telling you you're gonna see this again in the next I mean I've twenty years as we start to look at Mars and other planet as soon as the new she'll interest till towards What's that, wouldn't care forming other planets or or or or interplanetary travel. You will see a resurgence of sun and these missions and it is always about public eyeballs. What what does not want to have happened? it's very rarely led by science. Well, you know never seen private interests in going back to the moon because, of the helium three content on the moon and trying to be all the mine that and other lol. So you may be interested to see how that

it is in the next ten twenty years way possible all that the future of the future of our galactic exploration will be done. By commercial interests, similar to the way that you know that East India, company partnered up with its goal, and at the time to create a suit powerful broad interest and. Is it going to be good be evil will be united Fruit right? Will we will we be alive to find out how quick will the timeline go? Eight, I'm sorry, I'm Emma at this boy, just expounding on this cause. I Four that day telling interest for space exploration, furnished stained exploration is going to have to be commercial at this point near we lost. Was that love man for exploration as a public

So our job back into operations that occur within this film there there two points in the movie. Where operation northwards is mentioned and allow, people who were watching your movie may miss some of the content, for this are some of the matter you're playing with their, but explain to us what the concepts of operation northwards is in the film visible stuff they want. You to know is brought to buy lifelike tax season is here. You paying its an emotional roller coaster, sometimes it's off.

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means one less thing, distress about during taxis and join now and say that the twenty five percent off your first year, just gotta lifelike tat, comes conspiracy. That's life, locked dot, com, flash conspiracy for twenty five percent off Have you ever wondered: how do the smartest marketers cut through the noise amber different chairman and see if I hard media and woven the mad, the magic stories from the frontiers of marketing? We went from Fourchan, thirteen or fourteen seventy two years. You have no idea how incredibly empowering lies with the best decisions I ever made subscribed to map the magic on apple pie. Ghastly I hurt radio up or wherever you get your fight. Yes, you're Iheart. We note. If you dont know your numbers, you don't know your business. In fact, that's the problem, that

sweet by Oracle has set out to solve its time to quit. Flying blind and unlike growth for your business with nets we schedule. Free demo right now and receive your free guide. Seven key strategies to grow your profits, go to net sweet dot com, slash math that's that's sweet dot com, slash math! You sure I northwards is CIA. Ah me in that went on. I think from Fifty nine forward, was just recently by the last five years, the last seven years with declassified, and it was what we do. Another one of those crazy. Like you cannot believe it happening, The aim from nineteen sixty, which was specifically that they were going to take the canadian column terrorist attacks for the open, a big terrorist attacks. Oh they were done by the Cubans

and they were going to use this to drum up, support for an invasion of Cuba and Norton the huge blanket operation. I mean, I'm not like US dollar on this stuff is basically just what I learned from the researchers movie. I was making what we ve seen operation or we're a whole bunch of other minor operation and one of the ones that we reference in our movie. I was either operation operation dropped Jack. I don't know which one it was, but it was crazy and if the aid crazy and if the idea was with Miss with Miss I'll be out of Cuba, there shoot down. John wines rocky if something technically went wrong, so I mean God knows help here curious. They were by no means all in the mission. That would be that first, you know circle. First, man in space block it from NASA went up and had any kind of technical now the CIA was going to intentionally shoot it down with me.

This was coming out of Russia Toy out of Cuba and blame it on the Soviets which is just like insane but the but really set the stage. Well, for I am too why they would want to shake them many. It helps our quite a bit. Ok. Now I do men I feel like were given away spoilers like crazy, for this will all tell people about this. Boilers yet again and basically see movie then listen to this, but There's an action that you, the you your character, Map, Johnson, the guy the agent takes after cutting together. All of the documentary footage that you guys have shot through the core, of the movie, both of them are, you bury a real and, I think, if I remember correctly there different reels that you very but one of them. One of them is the movie itself and

it just maistly they d the somewhere out there there's a real of film buried that, as I don't know another shot from the grassy. No or maybe the actual moon landing said I mean I would love to think that I mean, I think the fact is that type of sulphur, flexible, making documentary devote yourself and dominant doing was not in those I a time in such a way were. Somebody would think all this is important. I don't think people like, let's say that there is a conspiracy to kill J, F K and the people who were involved in that thought. It was important in other big documented. I bet such a stretch, the island going. I wish there was a bathing, I mean the others such as such an awesome. Cachet through all. I just found this to be an ethic desert,

is a movie. What's the movie with Nicholas Cage where he finds the photographs at the very end he gets. Only action will be whether the rocker, my air, don't it must be the rock I see did dealing with that. My six agent yeah I'm. So I like that that that's so pulpy and so exciting data. I hope it's true, but that I think, are options razors, though there is still no way you're crazy. It would be ill, be too crazy too. Essentially incriminate oneself in that regard, right unless a good reason with which, which may happen in operation avalanche like she's doing it basically other staking out it's almost an insurance policy, I can't imagine somebody doing that from the inside. Without really really really having a reason to do it. I'm also any. I can tell you from experience that burying downcast eyes I value model, would not Why did you know

completely stripped, maybe it'll be stripped because and in order to damage lot of the time frames, elaborate avalanche like our movie? We did bury them and we wouldn't leaving. Married for more than sixteen hours before before the asset, almost completely gains and inside looks, we're getting regains and inside looks in here. We do but our listeners to know that you can check this movie out for yourself. Today the day this package comes out. That's right: operation avalanche is dear near you start in September, sixteenth, two thousand and sixteen in net. We wanna. Thank you so much for your time today- and this is this- is an astonishing work at up I guess it's almost day. Is it you're a finely possible pollination for a moon landing hopes that

ultimately seemingly impossible issues? You guys were way to successful with convincing me at least personally yeah? We think we we we want. I commend you on a job. Well done. We hope that everybody check out this film before we before we enter today's episode? Are we wanted to give the last word to you? Is there? Is there thing that you would like to add about operation, avalanche or say directly to people, who are also fascinated by the idea that the mood Landy was faked. And I think what the what I'd like to say, is that I don't the moon landing was by it, very clear that, like an environment of wise, existed in the United States during the night, you they used to manipulate the public at large and just because

the moon, landing, a light wasn't take by the CIA doesn't mean that their word dozens and dozens and dozens of people in which institutions like this I heavily manipulated the truth to change the policy of the United States to put their citizens so so I mean hopefully, people getting out from this movie without necessarily to believe in the conspiracy but there, but what happy with it either way at some level is just a story that thing You again so much and listeners do check out, do check out the upcoming operation. Avalanche theatre near you September, sixteenth,

day, this comes out. So if you listening to this, the day comes out, then hopefully you're already underway to the theatre driving their now so pretty interesting stuff. What do you think that interview. I could talk about Johnson for a long time, because he was very open about believing himself personally in the Moonlight conspiracy, but he was also able to construct a film that can me if something that I've never convinced of which is that you wouldn't need thousands and thousands of people in on the conspiracy. You just need a select few with and we try to do where we try to look at sides of an issue and be respectful to those that might believe Leave him we ourselves do from time to time. Certainly absolutely so. Sue? I, I still don't think we have. Maybe the the

the answer to. Why the moon, landings or moon lunar missions sought. The I fear that it would be. A funding issue seems pretty compelling and I enjoyed met Johnson's prediction that The same thing will occur with man's Mars missions yeah. As soon as the Zeit guys can a leaves and moves on to something else, then it will be difficult to get taxpayer to say, yeah. Let's give a good portion more taxes, We want to know what you think listeners, giving some of the stuff we outlines here. Do you believe, To paraphrase I haven't you believe they put a man on the moon or do you believe that is all some. Bert Wag, the dog hoax, and if so, why while checked out room to thirty seven from now on that night and we ve all done,

in the Stanley Cubic side the theory of it. So we would like hear from you and if you think that the moon landing did occur but occurred, perhaps under different circumstances may be so other group got there, store, maybe lending its continued in secret we'd love you're more details about those theories covered burned. He said I mean come on guys he burned. He said I know I you can't. Nobody else will be able to use this stuff. It will only live in the cellular. Now, film. These sets, but still no guys, You can also check out some of our earlier video episodes on lunar, conspiracies as well as a video have coming out that addresses the the one on one, the introduction to the police. The moon landing was hopes. You have really focuses.

The APOLLO eleven mission itself and, as you know where you can find, as if you wanna go, dig deep dived down that rapid hole into our back catalogue, you can find every podcast we ve ever recorded at stuff. They don't want you to know dot com or, if you our more into you know, using a spot, a fire or a stitch. Sure or I tunes made me go, do that, but do us a solid if there's a way leave us some kind words. It helps people discover the show and helps the algorithm push us out two more potential. There's an also makes us a little less likely to get fired. Absolute You can also find us on Twitter and Facebook worry conspiracy, stuff. You can check out our instagram where we are conspiracy, stuff show and if you dont want to do any of that stuff, and you just want to write some words down and then send em our way right. Any mail to Caen Piracy at how stuff works, dotcom illegal see this often, but we do have a physical address and we would like to send a snail mail should is an email with it.

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