Here's the thing: saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up. Basketball is always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock he certainly bricks theories and completely hack, you and then put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico, It's easy to switch and save on car insurance. No need to fake an angel sprain, because you're absolutely exhausted we can save with Geiger it's almost. Better than sports. Technology shapes our lives and we shape technology on the pod, The text of you can join me. Jonathan Strickland, as I dive into tech stories, ever wondered how a particle accelerator works or cause the video game crash of nineteen eighty three or who really invented the radio on text of we look at how works and, more importantly, how it affects us? You can find textiles. On the Iheart Ready web on Apple podcast.

So where do you get? Your pod casts from you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know. Welcome back to the show. My name is mad, been married. Nine years, Frederick, hey, congratulations! Mad been married! Nine years Frederick, my name's not been divorced from a couple years brown. Yes, congratulations met the unmarried nine years, Frederick, they call me, then our super producer, Paul one, take deck and his away on adventures, but we are joined with our Super producer Casey. Peg room who you may recognize from several other shoes here at how stuff works egg ice thanks for having ended

For coming on the show Casey, most importantly, if your listening to this, that means more you you are here, and that makes this stuff they don't work. You too, no really is mad ninth anniversary, yet true lazily memorials yeah yeah well you're listening. But while we are listening to us Unless this episode somehow comes out on the same day we were accorded, which usually doesn't happen unless quick peak behind the curtain. We got some. But yes, massive. Congratulations meant. A lot of people may not know that you in case you ve worked too their extensively in the past in the film world right, right. We under companies together for awhile there he shot my wedding. We made numerous projects together set out to write. Oh dear, oh no, Now people will know what to search results. There might be some stuff on Google Internet. I think the website is no no longer up. He shot

Your wedding and United States that it, but it was, it- was like celebratory sail in the air. It was like a thing I wearing. It was, I think, was a bank ice. The wedding so was one when and how cinematic would that be speaking, amazing, sideways guys. Finally, getting to an episode that a lot you have asked us about in the past, and I mean for years. We're all buffs here at the studio and like many of you, we and a lot of time, kicking round theories and discussing the occasions are various works as well as they are greater influence on leader, films and filmmakers today, our diving into one of the most well known conspiracies in the world of cinema, and to do this justice we to begin with a single man. His name is staring Cooper, old stand. The man cubic was born on July, the twenty six of the year, nineteen and twenty eight in the Bronx. Yes,

the Bronx. Yes, I've never been there after away. We want the Bronx once right, yeah we're rich briefly there on that that that one day, the hidden buildings, the area- that's not a disagreement. Yeah on his dad was a physician and his mother a housewife, and he was a bad bad. Yeah who is using the really bad at school in elementary school. He had about as many absences as he did attendance days. It was an outcast. To go to high school he later claimed. I never learned anything at school and I never read a book for pleasure until I was nineteen, but when he did he caught the bug, and originally he wanted either play baseball or beer. Writer. Imagine how different the world would be if we were talking about Stanley Cubic the third basin, the third baseman right any did have one shining aspect or moment high school. It wasn't all rainy Grady.

He's in sad songs on the radio. He turned out to be a promising photographer, which I think happened, with a lot of people later goin to become directors right? They start off, was still Tiger feel they have a gift for it. Do we talk about why cases on the show today, I was not here when nobody is also becoming command These cases, like a film, see an audio. Oh yeah we're it's a film school together, a Georgia University and Casey was in several of my classes and he always knew more than the professors, and he would never admit that buddy deeds did Piazza encyclopaedic, knowledge of film lore, so Casey Ricky shot a lot of stuff early on fur. Was it look magazine, look magazine, and yet he was, he was quite the accomplished, a kind of photojournalist Stumm. Even from the start. And uh yeah mean obviously the everything that he learned. Technically about still photography also tends to apply to filmmaking, so he can.

I've got an early that way. So the point holds right. Is that something we see with other directors is well Casey, yeah, certain directors, it. You know every directors different, some have more like a theatre, kind of background or a writer background, but deftly though, is that our lake more hands on with a camera and tend to think more in terms of images. Photography is like a great great weight. I get into film so he started on this path early right age. Sixteen he's selling photos to look and the next year by the time you seventeen to hire them full time. Yeah and I'm just gonna to say it's obvious, a great way to kind of stably assure me something. You know where you kind of fear had a. And things and why given these holes, Hyenas Lena, The figure in all your framing deal with still photography. You can certainly apply that to moving images as well as in the way you place, objects in the frame almost certainly and

we have a little bit of a romanticized picture of his early life because when he wasn't travelling for looked as if photographer, he spent most nights at the Museum of Modern ART or mama, or at a park playing chess, you get a lot and that that's really Well, that's way more productive than a lot of things that the average person would do in the evening. Unfortunately, he was rejected from every college, apply to every single one full stop, not because he was a bad boy. He probably didn't have The transcripts needed Gay Bobby. Didn't have the grades, but it seemed like he wasn't a huge proponent of organised education to begin with however, he did not waste time time. He would have spent in college. He spent working on documentary, shorts financed by friends and family. These were some of his early work

yeah in, he thought he could make a good deal of money making these types of things, because there is another company in case you don't know if you know this If you do have the answer to this question, but their company that was supposedly selling documentary shorts for fifty. Dollars something insane forty thousand dollars and the time- and he thought I can do that. I can so those who make a ton of money out I'll spend ten thousand dollars make thirty thousand or something like that. Only to find our own. Oh, no, you! You can't sell a documentary short for that much that's interesting! I don't! I don't know the name of that company, but cubic in a later later on in his filmmaking career, was always kind of a visa a very active producer, honest films, any control, the budget's. Very three meticulously, and it was all with with an eye towards being able to have the time to do the thumbs. The way he wanted them and never have that pressure to just have to get the shot move on

Oh I'm. He learn very very early on that you have to control the money until making and that gonna allow you till I get that perfect shot every time you, that's a really good point, because that something alot of directors when their first starting out get wrong riots that you have to do the unfunded staff as well as the creative stuff. Two bricks. First feature was this military drama called fear and desire came out. Nineteen fifty three! Oddly enough, he made it out the help of a studio to your point Casey, he was some one of one man band was multitasking not just with the budget not just directing, but Sue, Eddie working, sound, doing cinematography doing things ordinarily would be a group of people's individual drops. He would also shoot physically. You know when the camera he didn't like have a cinematography was that guy Yeah I mean in later films. He did work with some retired his, but even then it was kind of understood that this cinematography was like his back up.

Lady. If, if the seller photographer was not for some reason Coover could obviously stepping in and do it just as well there's an Acta. When he's making his first semi commercial feature where he was working with a very well respected, cinematography end up We're told him the Linsey wanted and where he wanted to put the the track using it to do a dolly shot, and the summit harder for had a different idea about how do the shot, maybe something a little more conventional, and so he put the tracks somewhere else and he put on you know the Lindsey fellow putting on in Cuba. You know caught it right away and said I didn't tell you to put the dolly there. I didn't tell you to put the track there. I t to put the lines on so Do I said, or you know, you're you're fired off this stone and from then on, I think that summit hog referred knew. He could not like pull ass. One on corporate Jake as he's paying meticulous attention to detail right and something that shows in his thumb, augury a we know for

fifty seven nineteen, fifty seven just in case we came unglued from time there to ninety ninety nine. He me numerous feature, films, belief, ten, and these include the greatest hits right. Spartacus nineteen sixty lead in nineteen sixty two, which I do have to say, despite the premise is a fantastic book by Nabokov because of you ate it did you read it Some of it I wash them versions the versions of it, are these early one virginal their leader, that is theirs: language, Jeremy, Iron yea, the agent line version that was like in the nineties or something it has one of my feet. Depictions of a death seen at least the novel out, the first page, and this little bit of a spoiler, the narrator Superman. Viable and a terrible person is talking about how is mother pass away and all you learn is there's this parent theoretical, whereas just like picnic, comma lightning and moves on swell for my favorite

since the US, as one of the best and most redundant names in literature, Humbird, Humbert change like alive and then suicide like Lolita is a very controversial story. Yeah and it's it's got some hugely problematic things, but cubic, never never hesitated. I guess to address controversial themes like doktor. Strange or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb which may nineteen sixty four, that's, predictably, something that we dig right there and I went back as research. I sure I'm sure you guys did too to look. As some the great clips from that women Don't you watch the writing? The nuke, of course, of course, everyone's about that Slim Pickens, I mean if you gotta, go what away what a way to go and people we're feel, like you, probably get vaporized instantly yeah,

only after the high of writing the thing, I guess. Eventually, you pass out the first. What new I dont know again on the elevation terminal. Velocity thing asked her if he was doing he also probably wouldn't able to hold onto a thing with your legs to that. Guy fall right offers a shriek egg. I was deadly using at thy master this, yet you're here, what's your phrase. He had saddle ride and thighs. This is getting weird, yes, Olympic, and was was unaware. That movie was a comedy but he was, you know it is kind of known for being like a player in westerns and stuff Nanda. He loved the story, and I think he he had more of like a sincere interpretation of it, and I did not disabuse him of that notion. So and yet he rode the nuke yeah I Wavin has had a real circles. That was, he was all about it that our sincere in nineteen sixty eight Stanley

brick releases what remains one of his most popular films, two thousand one, a space odyssey on a side note here, the first move and moon landing according to these, story occurred on July Twentieth, nineteen sixty eight, which would be certainly a mere hours after the Chappaquiddick incident really interesting through an case. Anyone interested and once some spoilers for the Thirdly, unspoilt level ending of two thousand Wanna space odyssey. There is an interview that surface recently where Cuba China goes beat by beat about what that ending a supposed to mean something that he typically did not do. This was like four at a japanese television, and it was something that never really made it over here until very recently, but were checking out if you wanna go to Esquire and hear Stanley Cooper explained the two thousand ones based on the ending in a rare on earth. Video, that's the name of the article. We should post on here's where it gets crazy, tat everything, Facebook, meaning page, hang out with us

he has other works. Of course, a clockwork orange bury Linden, the shining, a personal favor, my full metal jacket, and why he's making these amazing iconic works of film. He is also, of course, kind know of living life outside of his job, but kind of he's married three times three daughters in the early Nineteen sixty he moved to the UK and begins to build, taken as a recluse. Almost Judy Salinger Level, but maybe not quite Dinner views there barely any photographs of em. None of them are formal and heat in a little time outside of the studio key looks like he would picture a typical hermit. My lawyer, a beard beard kind of shit, Shaggy John Kennedy, unkempt hair, and it should be noted that he takes huge breaks between feature films as the years kind of go by and lastly, for films and want to save revision were scared.

Its malloch yeah, it takes him a long time between projects and there is more history there of of other films. He tried to get off the ground and for one reason or other didn't into happening, or he decided he didn't want to make, we, the biggest one, is Napoleon that he was gonna. Do I think, after two thousand one and he's years and years kind of creating this like day by account of Napoleon's life. He had this whole like index card catalogue system of where Napoleon was unlike every single day of his life just about and he made you know, he needs years of his life into it, and Ultimately, there is other Napoleon movies that came out in the same period that did not perform well the box office and he couldn't get it made up you have ever seen in Poland movie because you Napoleon menacing bill in TED. What do you think that you now many users, an unsympathetic character, fairy hotel guy? There must be a footnote but Casey to your point so with his whole, methodical car catalogue system, probably a bit of a

neurotic room, a little bit of a secular and obsessive yeah, yeah yeah, I there was a sweet thing I found in the research world live in the UK and become increasingly reclusive. His sister would take football in baseball games for some, his favorite teams, like the New York Giants, send him to should send these to him in the mail. So we still had that you, connection Stanley Cooper eyes in his sleep on March, seventh, eighteen, ninety nine mere hours, after delivering a print of eyes. Wide shut in this would become his last film, but it's where our story really begins and we'll get to it after a word from ours

What is worse, yours, the ball park as the new cars with a fresh perspective, culture bail, you not just matured in a bill down in one city- impress us talk about this there. All eighty every owner is seventy own away, our creep in all social media reporting. Ok, she carries out of quality or wherever they may gripe denounced by any measure, does I'll see to the millionth right, I'll shillings might explain city and draw some a ray of light like Yahoo or Google or alive my medicine, and I started the like someone else. I know it's not right, but I really can't take one of Philip. What should I do even cover round with your, maybe the obvious, those key Ferrari? Things makes a huge out on our brand new back and self I can of animal now on the radio have on gas or whatever you get your plaid cast.

My name is Shapiro wealth. This is

story of my son Courtney. Your money was critical to dollar. Fifteen is the biggest here my life. He was a ladies man even which have anti in your grandmother. I'm just the wrapper. Cornick open was a good friend of mine in twenty sixteen. He wound up with a bullet in his back outside of Chicago police Station, twenty grams per order Photoshop, and it's the story of my search for the truth. This is somebody a coal production of them, visible institute the Inner South and Topic Studios in association with Tenderfoot TV available. Now this is somebody's chai. Somebody deserve to know what happened I desire to know what happened must listen to somebody

May I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your broadcasts we're back. So these are just three brief highlights very brief, highlights, as it were, of coverage life and times, and there is much much more to his story off screen in fact, even in the ongoing stuff, entire volumes of literature been dedicated to the story behind a single cubic film like full metal jacket or the shining or idols, and one or two thousand oh yeah, especially where eyes wide shut yo. Well, I got movie, was says secret, not so secretly about the Illuminati. You do. Kind of theirs There's a surprising amount of french journalist researchers who believe that while they tend to agree with your point. No, they believed

most influential work has little or nothing to do with what the public perceives issues of war of what the hell is that it's your body of work this year at body of work we really fast just Casey! I think one of the reasons just before we get into all this. One of the reasons is that people feel that way is because he dealt a lot with visuals symbol, symbolically things that represented other things. That would mean a shot or the shout would be a certain way to speak beyond asked what is occurring, what you're seeing on screen or what will your hearing yeah yeah? I think I think again, going back to kind of his is origins and install photography was all about the image and composition and symbolic g and economy into the deeper layers of storytelling Ino Joseph,

Campbell call Young that kind of stuff. The idea of archetypes and these kind of lake prime tendencies in in narratives in things that recurrent stories over and over throughout time. So he He was kind of tapped into a lot of that. I think so, before I got to say it again, there's an excellent article by Cormac Mccarthy, It addresses this concept of symbol is communication. Beyond articulated language, it's called they coolly problem. Where did language come from, which it totally posts that case? If you would love this sounds great, actually yeah in just kind of something that occurred to me cubic once he was living in England in sort of Vienna being but more perhaps reclusive he was having led tapes of american Football Games in baseball games. I think sent over to him from the United States, but in one interview the actually says that the commercials interested him more than the gains themselves, because just something

could tell a complete story within the span of thirty or fifteen seconds the economy of the of means of light, communicating that in just a handful of images in the best ever rising. I'm really. Fascinated him love to see him review commercials I have always felt that way about, like jingles, are like making a little tent. Fifteen second theme to forego the dabbled in that with some of our podcast. It's really and try to communicate a kind, beginning middle and end of something in very finite. The short amount of time can, you guess imagine the multiverse we're Cooper exists was working for profit gamble or some other company and just making commercials you'd be. When I last that's right, one gets through it I'm not kidding this, let's right Stanley Cubic, add somehow will Ok, so these people, these jobs, researchers who do I read something in the tea leaves or feel that they have divined something beyond the surface.

Story of these films. They argue that films are just a message. Reading to his larger secret, great work, which knows alluded term they argue that Stanley Cubic participated in some of the world's most insidious cover ups and that this participation later tortured him. So so in fact that he hid clues HU, the truth, own work. Here's where it gets crazy first and foremost in most well known conspiracy involving Stanley Cubic, is what the moon landing that never was was raised. Yeah. No human beings ever actually landed on the moon. They say instead, the governments secretly contracted with Stanley Cooper to film a fake me landing of high enough quality to fool the word old and then swore him and everyone else involved to secrecy. On pain of death, well that's, obviously true, let's move on.

Now there there's more to parts out here we can tell you how the story began to circulate so anti being taken seriously by people after daily cubits death this was not around when he was alive and the most I'm in it mentions. We can find someone seriously alleging this from a writer and director named J we'd near who began publicizing what he saw as clues supporting this concept, and we can we can dive into this. We do want to warn anyone who hasn't seen the shining for some reason go. Should now This is going to examine in detail aspects of the shining. It's not major spoiler territory by their income. We'll spots that are troublesome, but surely both the movie and the book are well beyond the statute of limitations. Your spoilers at this point, but but the Chinese or those movies that, even if you haven't seen it by now

You should see it before. We can even spoils. Oh Mamsie. Lately you probably also know the story already a you know it. So it's almost a true. It's almost a knock lamentation troops at this point, but still. I guess we should do the countdown for spoilers forty thirty nine, how one about the dude that plays piano in and can it loses marbles, rob that's the one I can't think of a holiday, is got shine, naturally selective Jeffrey, Russia's first big picture, nice spoilers, Jeffrey Russia- Censure- if that's it well. If that was the question one, it answered a Buddhist Bolivar shine his father. Fathers Father breaks his violin and now tat makes him into a desert old man terms. We a penis. It does so Factor the shy with an eye Angie, Jesus assessment, Jack,

Danny Torrents. The dad in the sun represent different aspects of public himself, so Danny is the gifted youthful ideal. Dick director, whose in tune with a greater message, Danny story, a psychic ensue. Some symbolically that's cool brick incapable of seeing things. No one else can see. Danny also has a knack for telling people things that should ordinarily be kept quiet. Jack on the hand. The fathers, the coop practical, pragmatic guy, wants to be a great artist and apparently willing to do anything to accomplish its goal of becoming a writer so to support J site, several perceived physical similarities, Jack's practice of smoking marlboros the same kind that cubic smoked, to the earlier point about his appearance, he says Jack looks unkempt an and, as the film progresses gains. Looking more and more like the behind the scenes, footage of coop, correct goober and I

It's I mean it is interesting, because it was known to carry it, acts around saying it s way that wildly people to get them to do exist. Shelly devolved, get back over here. What I say actually go through story. He never used to turn up. Axis, has his You have like a metal phobia like human He you know, maybe he just headed approve acts. Thing yes, Yes, the open. He does look unkempt, and you see this in about behind the scenes- footage he and Jack Nicholson playing torrents come increasingly, I want to say decrepit, but wild looking and you look hotel in this reading represents America, its shiny. It's. Why coffee, but it is built upon blood and terrible terrible secrets. We talked about the the baking powder cans down.

Yeah Keller comes in a little bit later, but that something we touch on now. I will only mention because been talked about built on. Blood money enabled a mention in the film I believe there I like in any other area, Leland arrogance in there we are doing the tour. He says we had to repel several indian attacks. Yeah. We were building this place, which is just a throwaway lied in there to it: ass, a more sinister but visually there's a whole like crazy, stockpile of Kalama baking soda powder. It has there. You know the traditional indian chief yeah, address very conspicuously turned towards the camera. Is there a case with its in profile and in its also Halloran? Who is giving the tour of the of the kitchen? is in the same profile as the Indian. So there's been some suggestion that Cuba is drawing up well visually between you know what would happen.

Historically, the Indians and African Americans, as well in the United States, but did it's all about faking, the moon landing to jail yeah. Yes, in this context is like this is America, and here is the most him Orton part rate the tell manager early see the first one we meet right here. Barely represents the face of the american government, where's red one and blue. He has a you flag in his office. He sits in front of an eagle the power behind the throne and the lunar lander. The APOLLO eleven mission J Notes was called the Eagle O the deal the jack makes with this manager in pursuing creative interest so long as he takes care of the overlook in May you're tells Jack is mean job is to prevent the overlook hotel from Looking like it is decaying yeah Here we are talking about America again if we taken in the context- that he sees it in that

we're gonna need you to fake this thing, so it doesn't look like we're the decaying force within these cold. Or powers, which is another big thing. There we go okay, so the storm hits. The overlook is again according to J Representative of the cold war between the USSR and the? U S, this cold war efforts are high, real american technology flying saucer. In his opinion, primary motivations behind the faked moon landing the torrents We then, in Erica in cubic are trapped in the cold war there's not all pregnant higher physique there's another thing that goes that ties into the native american artistic motifs right letter, all throughout the shiny you in there where he were Jack, is attempting to write and going crazier crazier and throwing the tennis ball.

The wall, the has this native american motif that, according to J, looks like a bunch of rockets. We are not enough there in there's, also so much native American just tree enshrined in there. Somebody symbols within they'll tell you look at the carpeting in certain areas, and I would just quickly, I loved it s Casey. If do you think, there's any salt to that. Reading of this film that perhaps the overall is in some way the United States. I, there's something to it. Yeah, I don't. I don't necessarily by into the whole cubic his guilt about the moon, landing in these kind of addressing that in the shining, but You think there is something to the idea that the EU the overlook hotel standing in for the United States in the film in some ways being about the past kind of

continuing into the present in kind of never truly being gone. My wife a loop the way as yet and the guy or alert but Jack he's always used, always in an area that has been the caretaker. We notice like it at the end of the film when, when you see that picture of joy Nicholson on the wall, with all the people in Lake nineteen, twenty and I think it is yeah it's July. Fourth, it's like the fourth of July Ball. Dont done done, and my whole thing is: why wouldn't Coburg do this for funds? Is you know? It's like. It seem like an odd choice for me anyway, to make like this horror. Movies loving had ever done before. He's need see my kind of out of love field It would make sense to me that he would have kind of not an agenda. By some twist on it. That would make it a little more fun for him than just doing a traditional you now threaten or if he were a phone yeah. I think that's a good point. So J W, would agree with you and people who think it's about the moon. Lenny would agree with you back there.

This ball windows goose twins through the ball to Danny he stands and for the first time in the film we can clearly see a sweater. It's a rocket with. Apollo eleven, soon crudely beneath gun from the proponents guy, and he says we reviewer gets to see the launch of the APOLLO eleven rocket as he's no ascending from sitting down yeah and Look I don't want to re, write the stuff off entirely, but there are some inaccuracies with his reading. So in the original version and the shining Danny experiences horrible psychic event in a room tat. Seventeen in the film this yours in room to thirty seven J, R is that the average distance between earthen, the moon is two hundred thirty seven thousand, miles and that this change and room numbers is an illusion to this idea. However, the act

average distance from earth to the moon is more like two hundred thirty eight thousand eight hundred fifty five miles and that's that's parnasse but you know, is working with right has always called for someone to save it it has been suggested that it was more to do with the hotel, not wanting their real room, two three or to one seven to be enough for people to be like. Scared of staying there, the heart of every hole, the hotel that they use Does the the exterior hotel on the phone a lot of the interior or on a set? Isn't that the EU is not an organ gear? Having says something Timberline log jam and told me, I was, I have a hat from there. I gotta Pee Portland Airport I may have noticed, show before, but someone pointed out that one fact was the the place that was you. Is that bad, the in them in the another kind of really weird coincidence, the the hotel that Stephen King had stayed out that kind of gave him the idea in the first place, to write the book I called the Stanley hotel. How nice

coincidence, probably and then, and it has even king notoriously not a fan, Regret Rick's film is very different. Was very different and I think that really support the idea that cubic was having a little. In a bit of fire was doing something in addition, yeah, which I think is an important point, so J and people who grew the room to thirty seven represents the symbolic set of which the APOLLO eleven landing was faked and he believes due to the nature of shifting perceptions of reality in the room that Dick Collar, said nothing in the room is real and the fact that Jack leader lies to his wife about it. Wendy claiming He saw nothing in the room is interpreted by J T mean that cubic lied about faking, the moon, landing and then said: hey. What's the best way to tell people about this, I should make the shining you should of a woman in a bathtub become very old

fast, all of the sudden yeah. That's what I would do I chills I do so. He has a really scary. How I did not sign the shining, particularly scary, oh, but that seniors sticks with me when I, When I do a lot of research, I actually play Lou FI chill wave, instrumental and the shining on mute, and it makes it makes it a different film. It's actually Great speaking about have you seen the funny spoof trailer for the shining with petering Peter Gabriel, Salisbury Hill, and it's just like makes it look like a total wrong com. It just goes just goes to show that it so easy to refrain things with music and just clever cutting shine. So he has some other things for people believe that the moon, landing was fake cubic. Did it and told us about the shining point? we're through spurs J D, J,

So what you lie forth, which I had no idea and that that's fastening have to go back and watch it again and then here's what I thought you guys for some recurring APOLLO, beyond the manuscripts, going crazy and just rights over and over again and different formats. All work and no play makes jacket, ol boy according to J. Could actually be read as not all work but eleven work and no play makes Jack a doll boy come on a eleven standing for, of course, APOLLO eleven. I think we solved it. why they look. I don't want to throw spurs J D J W what it you know, that's reading in the thing pretty hard. There are some recurring APOLLO. Eleven themes in the movie, but it was also very much in the consciousness of the time, The sweater moroccan

pattern and stuff. You know her He does throw out a quick reference in a clockwork orange. Also there's a cartoon talking about man on the moon and the Enron, or think about how again, just what you have said it out massive that is in the site, Geiss from that moment forward of imminent headed to carry to a point where we still are interested and talk about literally one of the top five more minutes in human history here dont know which, which one it is I'm just being conservative. I dont want to say it's the best one, because I have you get an amazing to buy solo video a while back. Fan? You sent it to me and I have yet to crack it open through my god. I should have apologized. I get a little fixated myopic and I think I texted as people during the day

This two percent just said all caps, tuba solo, and yet I was in high, couldn't really mistaken for anything it's great though ok, we can reach to the most? Yes, my favorite thing about all of this theory: and it's a thing that kind of solidifies it for me, because I understand as casey- and we are all saying before the America symbol as the overlooked in this deal that's being made that with them character that is subsist. It's all it has always been. There will always be there if you, you look at it again, all those things together. This deal. Do they make? Could it be that Stanley through work, making a deal with the american government in that hotel office that sets up the entire thing the entire world of in which cubic then, exists. I mean to me that I can totally see. I could totally see that

You know why you're Europe swaying me here, Matt something people debate Surprisingly, not everybody agrees yeah right by an awful. I agree, but it's If this is one of those, I want to believe things yea. I we still have to get this poster. Something to say was too many, thirteen footing the efficacy and so will only get twelve there another piece of intrigue that emerges around the shining in twenty five or so clips of someone proportion, to be Stanley Cubic surfaced and in these clips the subject appears to take credit for faking. The moon He calls it his masterpiece. He totally owns it and says that he found it. However, critics note that several parts of it

review strongly call the authenticity of the footage into question. Yet doesn't look like stairway to wear. It doesn't sound like Stanley, Riyadh, probably not Stanley covert. They said the interview occurred in May of ninety ninety nine after he had already died, and you can hear the guys doing. The interview refer to the person purporting to be Stanley Correct as Tom and hang ok. Let's do it this way so that we, I think we can dismiss. Additionally, his daughter cupboards Vivian Correct strongly object to these claims. Since she dismissing them outright, we we have a statement that she released on Twitter. Regarding this. Cool one want one. Why The I kill you and then for once and you can can read that in full. It's it's pretty well

it sounds very reasonable. One line that we all thought you would really enjoy is where she says there are many very real conspiracies that have happened throughout our history and are happening presently, I'm too aware of the dreadful manipulations perpetrated by governments. Secret services banksters them. Terry Industrial, complex, etc, but clean the moon landings were faked and film by my father. I just can't understand it. How can any I believe that one of the greatest defenders of mankind would commit such an act of betrayal. Vivian would really like our show? I hope Yeah she'd be ended, author. I followers on Twitter, so she really personal conspiratorial guess what boys follow owner the official that this sort of full endorsement disease- I think she person- can a problematic stuff, sometimes do well we're going to follow in anyway, because she no follow backer at risk. I was worth it boy, but of course there

turn it interpretations of the shining this great documentary called room to thirty seven came out, and twinning twelve remember. We all talked about it at work that exists, other analyses of the work, and here the big ones. This is that we mentioned earlier, the shining about the genocide of native Americans and case no pointed out. There is a ton of imagery ripe and purposeful framing of shots to support that idea. Other people say: yes, it's about genocide, but not the genocide of native Americans. It's about the Holocaust course I will say no the shines while taking the moon landing. Someone saying no, the shining is a retailing of the minute Armeth cases. There are either amazing the book, no there there just hedge creature, edge animal yeah committal may that's one of the plague. They changes and all

so in the in the book. The overlook hotel explodes because they, it manages to set the boiler off the right the first time I learned the word doesn't It has done for the last things. The possessed jack towards this you mean, as is ghost riddled body, die some kind of which he word its lay. It's like you dare not. Oh you doesn't interesting, is very interesting new tasks, tat Zuzu, but we seem the exorcist to name of the demon and necklaces to its position, That's one one in three reason I do is boilers hey. You know we didn't mention what's that, because I don't agree with any of the stuff he has talked about. I think the shining is an oligarchy for leaving or leaving the gold standard, the decline of the goals. Yes, that's another thing. People have argued the filmmaker of two

thirty, seven Rodney Ashton, I believe his name. Is he personally doubts? all of these interpretations, and there are a couple of other things that weaken the idea. This moon landing concept just based on the film prize. Here too the writer J W claims? There were two guys who propose The idea is a joke on the internet. And then there was a mocking memory that I think we ve all seen in this room. A dark side of the moon, which is also Christopher guest style look at the face you have. The moon, lanting now have everything I've heard of this. It's pretty funny. It's pretty good. Problem is it was often taken seriously and people will cited as evidence. Yeah vampire documentary what will we do in the shadows? This amount- that's great. It's it's real I think it's just a Marquis memory. It's the inverse! I guess of this year, that's a good contrast. There met so

I'm not sure what you guys doing without a day. I think we're going to a commercial break up goes to HIV. J and I'm so excited to now that for these season, finale of my Ipod Catholic, Ruth and J, we have NBA I'll start and mental Health Advocate Kevin Love, throbbing, robys of war, human potential them It's so it's like that. The pandemic that nobody is talking about. We talk about Kevin's journey with anxiety, passion and the amazing NBA career, listening, we have a semi J on the eye, her review, an apple podcast or wherever you gave your podcast we're back so there's another conspiracy play here that we we mentioned at the very top of the shrill, but we did really dig into S day we could break in the Illuminati a eyes. Why shots the last film he made or oh,

finished, making right depending on your interpretation, one that really freaked alot of people out yeah, the largely because, as the only film to feature in a cold Kidman wiping her bum o thou, I feel it. Yeah, that was the original title. Italy only Phil Eyes, wiping her by Friedrich, Nicole Gibbon, wiping album its Darrell yes Nicole, wiping her Burma side. There are a lot of things, and brought up before that. Perhaps this movie had to do with the first one than I read had to do with intelligence and whether or not this whole film What kind of a job at d this is not. Speaking, MRS other people, speaking the cold like similarities with the cold like things that Scientology has within it Tom Cruise Well, that's there will again like also

Vivian Cubic, who we ve talked about, is now Scientologists yes and People online will report that this is still a fighting against it s like you, ve taken my daughter, very upset, I'm making this whole movie exposing you, however She did not join Scientology until after the least the very very tail end of production in this film, so the Thailand's little tough yeah, if he, if you're talking about a man riding a film sure and then coming up with the shots, were in all this, that is, did doesn't lineup. But having the coal and Tom as the lead characters. Interesting connection there. Perhaps perhaps you weren't you too, He knows air that there's this idea of coup, brick, making eyes wide, shut

just to put them through the ringer. Well, that I mean that's been reported by several articles allocation of deferring about this, but there is there's like there's one scene and eyes what showed that feels a little bit weirdly at a place. It's where Tom Cruise is kind of walking the streets of you know that plot version of New York that they built in England at night by himself and he passes These kind of, like frat guys and they d get out of his way and the kind of bump into on the kind of lake start yelling kind of homophobic, stuff, Adam and has been some suggestion that that scene was in their almost as coup bricks potential. Commentary on Tom. You know there's been rumours for years, not sure about Tom Cruise. So just just not even so. Much cubic falling down on one side or the other of the whole thing, but just kind of I don't know Prodding Tom Cruise and make the control of his image and or that kind of stuff, but is also isn't Cooper.

Very well known for putting all actors through the Ringer yeah Jelly Duvall on the shining. Yes, yes, well, and also scanning brothers, you place Halloran in the shining, tells us. About having to do some wine dialogue like hello or something like times in finally, a kind of crying out and Exasperations Mr Cubic. What do you want, and you know capricious saying hundreds waiting writer. You know just keep trying it yeah. With those the London nobody goes. It goes much much deeper than there's, there's a theirs in nickel in Vanity Fair that gases, specifically how covered which the relationship of Nicole Acumen and Tom cruise onset and offset there was this fairly very short sexy, but Nicole Kidman character, and some other man- and you were born. Tom, cruise and being onset, and they shot it really six days in its this.

Tiny little and go, it Tom Cruise was not allowed to be told anything about what was happening again. This is his wife right and that's it that's one of those like things that almost I can see him as a director trying to unsettle both of them on purpose rang test their marriage, because in the movie they're married and then he's test their actual marriage, and he would have them sit down do essentially therapy with Stanley. With we have them together in a room and talk about their actual marital problems and then work that into the movie. I mean the joke about the the bomb waiting thing earlier, not to keep harping on them, but that sort of thing the two idea that he made them kind of behave in in the scene as a married couple, would you know go about their business in kind of having gone past. That honeymoon p where you're gonna do now take a p with the door open and worried that your husband standing right there These are two of the most powerful and famous actors in all of added tat at the time,

that he that he is kind of toying with an eye, and I wonder how much of that is him, like, I don't know, just really exercising the power yeah, but also this time is already a legendary directly, so he's kind alike, the level in in the terms of directing kind of like at the level prince, was in terms of music people. Just don't say no to him now, except after his death, so he, the big, question about eyes, wide, shut, re, easy purposefully, torturing the actors like a cat with a mouse see fighting in Scientology, using the languages symbolism, the thing you're, fine, the most curious. If, if you have seen eyes wide shut before or if you're not too familiar with the story, you wanna die into it. The thing you might find most curious is that many p,

argue about the cut of the Phil. Yes, then, finally, right right who breaks contract some hard lines preventing studios from editing his work without his consent. Again here still the same, very hands on director. He was back in the fifties. The essentially going through. The position is it's done when I say it's time and then, when I say it's done, it's definitely died, no studios intruding, don't tell me to put in new actor or some dumb, seeing with a talking dog I run the show and that here it through even to the marketing of his arms. He designed all the posters himself. He cut all the trailers himself and he was We have we involved in selling movie even after he done working on it? So then he after is untimely death. These Dixon researchers, wonder whether they cut the premier in theatres was the actual final cut. He won it so

whether scenes it might have been left out without his consent or altered Emmy. What gives Casey you gonna, so there there is some truth to this in a certain sense, I mean maybe goes deeper if you, if you buy into that theory, but you know just sticking to like what is definitely known to be definite true cubic? Was contractually obligated. Even though we had final cut, he was still contractually obligated to deliver an already film or the U S market and he died. You know, just as he had caught a finished his like final cut. He never had. Hence the kind of go back and forth with the Mp A over that rating Wednesday. Deliver Nancy Seventeen, because of something unity in the orgy sequence, Yo Yo, are there are orgies. Yes, just just one day, one of us one is to assume their ball to be our yes. Yes, it's it's a recurring event, but so do you know,

They were kind of it in a real predicament, because there are so many people, thou clamouring to see like the final master work of this legendary director and they can release it into most theatres. The way it and see seventeen works in the United States. It's it's a real problem commercially. So what they arrive. As a compromise, was that they use e g. I to put these kind of redeeming Looking very static very lake on any value. Ask nude figures standing with her back the camera in front of the more explicit action and this way. They didn't have to actually alter like the rhythm of the cutting or reshoot anything. But it is absolutely stands out. I mean one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, the estate of creating those kinds of immuno post production like figures was was not great. Girls still not super grant there. You saw wrote one. Grandma of Turkey in or whatever it took me out, I'm moving movie that Uncanny Valley effect is is alive and well

and so they are, but in Europe day they did get the unfiltered unaltered version right away, and now, if you buy the movie on Blu Ray in the? U S, sword or dvd or probably stream it's it's also the the unaltered version. It is not like as an option that as yet, I think it just to fall to it. It doesn't even can be rather than it did. I think it is so we're what was being covered. Is it like penetration, yea idly people on a table and you can kind of see what's going on so vouchers? There's like people cannot stand, in front of me, there's there's really nothing like supergraphic about any of it, but do you know it doesn't leave a whole lot to the imagination, probably nothing that we haven't already seen in like films like Caligula, four hundred for sure yeah it wasn't. It wasn't like. They were all these rumours when he was making the film that it was like gonna, be triple x rated and it was like the most explicitly never and then, when the solemn actually came out. I think most people were kind of like this is like way more time than we were told to expect, because they cut out the

puppet lovemaking sees it the right to be in their, which was the original second title of the film puppet lovemaking seen us daily coup, brick there is one other elephant in the orgy room here and it is the Illuminati ever masks and the robes and rituals the Dear the ideas that Cuba by I have been in the entertainment industry got embroiled in a massive global free, Mason Illuminati conspiracy, any devoted much of his career to referencing this through symbols and codes. Just like the moon landing shining argument, which is the true brick, the shining a sort of insurance to save his life from this couple. The eyes wide Shut, Illuminati argument says that he well he's always pushing envelope he actually

ass, the line for the secretive cabal when he depicted specifically trauma based mind, control, similar to concepts, explored and things project monarch. Another other related theories and that instead of Rick passing away after turning in the film he went assassinated. So one big questions. They think we should ask about. This concept is if this group is so powerful and if they were so worried that they killed him after he turned in the final cut, where were they when he was filming the thing. Well, it took case correct me. If I'm wrong, I think it took like eighteen. Yes, it was a very, very long shoe and when you, when you consider that you know Tom Cruise in the coal kin and are both lake extreme, the in demand actors at that moment, and even now you know for that Matter- they they really had to kind of shut their lives down and just like dedicate everything to

being on the shoot and miss out on a billion dollars. You're, probably right, but it is interesting, though, when you think about some of the things at least that of reading, in that very fair article, about the weird ways of shooting what they wish, they would shoot Tom cruise, honest, set with actually, greens, we are projected images by yet rear rear, like old school rear projection revert in the UK, for weeks yeah I just that one shot him walking round in just forced hungers do that for weeks, and it makes me wonder if he's kind of, if this thing holds true that he's kind of obvious skating, what's actually going into the movie in. What's actually what did the same they really me. Ok, maybe there was a strategy like a red herring, false trails, yeah, maybe item there's, definitely like a dream, like kind of feeling he's trying to convey, and even the he does have like second unit Photography

happening in actual New York. When you, get the movie. It doesn't really feel like New York. It kind of feels like a dream idea of what New York is. Yeah I don't know, I'm kind attempted the thing It was less about like putting Tom cruise through the ringer for the heck of it in probably more down to just you know: technical perfectionism of who were exported to have it not feel like just a bogus affect shot or something tat you saw this is by and large, where the converse. The issue about eyes wide shut lives, we No, that Stanley Cooper was no stranger to conspiracy theories on his own. There is a famous seen Doktor Strangelove, where he mentions. Fluoride We are talking about through her case. You don't happen to know quota anything. Do you turn to think that the one that I'm thinking of is to deny

women my essence, but I think in this when they're having a discussion about fluoride in the water, I believe yeah yeah. I do remember that area ever ever quote here. That might be helpful. I'm not gonna do the voice, but it's it's is a conversation yeah, I Mandarin. Do you realize that, in addition to Florida, in water, while theirs, daddy's under way to Florida, salt, flower, fruit juice, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream, ice cream, Mandrake children's ice cream jack you When fluoridation first began, I nine hundred and forty six nine teen forty six mandrake, how does that coincide with your post war? Commie conspiracy is incredibly obvious. Isn't it a foreign substances introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual states Lee without any choice. That's the way your hard core commie works there that

That's pretty clear. Sixteen from the film we don't know for sure Stanley, cooperage personal thoughts on for. I know his personal thoughts on the concept of extra terrestrial intelligence. Oh yes, we found an excerpt from Playboy Magazine NICE Triple X, her! Oh actually, I think IRAN that time, it's probably like double ex, maybe Playboy, was never triple x. They vote yes, guy really de machete. My now of nor would you like to regale us with some of that boy? Would I nineteen sixty eight the way Playboy magazine Stanley grouping. I want to space. Odyssey has just come to amalgamate cubic voice. Extraterrestrials made

best from biological species, which are fragile shells for the mind best into immortal, machine entities and then over innumerable yawns. They could emerge from the chrysalis of matter transformed into beings of pure energy and spirit that isn't real. I no longer giving more Bronx do you can only do evil evil. That's over goes great. These beings would be gods, did the billions of less advanced races in the universe, just as man would appear a god to an end. So here he's talking specifically about the possibility of extra trust you'll intelligence existing is not saying they exist here. We have taken an excerpt via he just postulate on what it would be like, and he makes a point which is actually play pretty flattering. For us when you think about it, he makes the same

point that we made in previous episode, which is that the idea of inner again life forms being the successful explores of the stars, little more likely than organic lifeforms, yes, and even gets into that. The important point Is that all the standard attributes assigned to God in our history could equally well be the characteristics of biological entities who billions of years ago we at a stage of development similar to man's own and evolved into something, is promote from men. Man is remote from the primordial ooze from which first emerged. That's a great debt! That's great! I just great The great thought I know you know that's in agglomeration of other people, thoughts in a wait and see, but still it's it's well well told she say it Well framed

guys will. In conclusion, First, we know this episode ran a little bit long, but we hope you enjoyed it as much as we have today, conclusion, there's no question that cubits work lends itself to a vast array of interpretation. That's the thing about it Reputations of works of art interpretations are not necessarily mutually exclusive resolutely, Ultimately, it could be argued that all so our belong to the audience perceiving them the meaning rikers. Once the artist is dead, then they have no real say, which is dear. The very controversial point needs to hate it. When my professors pointed that out was especially if you're an artist. I just wants to allow yourself to speak for itself, and you dont want to be talking to press all the time I want to have to go through every little frame and say this is what this means teaching you I'm telling you how to read my films and do not do

get out of my sight, I'm going back to the UK rights any intensely symbolic nature of the stories Cooper specifically tells arguably community. Eight, the audience on a semi or subconscious level accessing those primal, archetypes cited by people, a coral, younger freezer, the author of the Golden Bow or Joseph Campbell, and again that Cormac Mccarthy people are probably already posted it on his way. It's crazy, but were posting and again by Golly by gum, it's worth it in the case of the shining in the moon landing theory, the interpretation- Stu honestly seem pretty subjective but fascinating compelling problem is some inaccuracies. Poles. In the case, for the idea of a secret gwawl functioning behind the scenes, pulling the strings of industries, religions and governments across the world. Well, the retaining industry certainly does have a version of that they are called producers

burns. Petitions are EU producers out there in. This is one thing I just wanted to speak to Casey as well about this in general, dear say, frenetic pace, that's inherent in the film making process where if any of you out there have had the experience of being on a set of any kind of either for student film a school project- maybe maybe you ve, worked on a big production before, but if so, you know that there are. Major changes that occur to everything from the script. Set dressing to the camera angle that this can be used in the lens and everything in between it happens in real time when you have a director with it with a vision who seeing something that isn't necessarily written down allows the lily right. Yeah yeah, I mean Then again, the reason they cubic needed, eight, eighty, wants to shoot eyes wide shut, which, if you watch the final film, it's kind of baffling We could take so long to shoot it cause it's a lot of like simple

interiors and a couple people in a room talking, but it is because exactly that He wanted to be able to try things this, do a scene here, do a scene there. You know change the location, change, alighting there, and actors that dropped out because they couldn't. Doing the movie, so some stuff had to be restored in that way, so I mean he's here much like looked at the he prepared. His films meticulously, but he still they were like very much can a living documents that he was making. Some went when it came to shit them, then, if you wanna to see an example of this. There is a great clip on Youtube or you can see behind the scenes, shining footage where you can see. Were actually making these decisions about how yet the shot with with Jack Nicholson standing at the door, darling talking to his wife. This really low angle showed that he just kind of messing around their hanging around, trying to figure out how to frame the thing. Silly

down below ngos- oh yeah yeah. Let's try this one year is getting directors define Ernie lays down he's just like Nels. Due from here I mean in that, thing occurs in filmmaking all the time and sometimes, when you think about someone like Saintly quivered, making these films that Every moment is planned out in a note book somewhere in a groom war that he's got here on my plans. It probably isn't the way it worked out let's offered Hitchcock and then that I said you know and make my movies before hammered never comes on. We should also we should also note that Alfred Hitchcock was a monster offscreen two is to his talent at least yeah. Yeah last told them cattle I speak one time. Casey were students and video. I think I heard you say something like that. You only got all right well case.

Pegrenne. Thank you. So much for joining us today. On the show and partying, as some of you, are a brick wisdom to us and audience. And of course thank you, as we said for Meaning in this is the end of today's episode, but not our show you can find a sun instagram. You can find us on twitter. You can find us on Facebook.

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