Hi there I'm sack wrath and I'm gonna phase on we're real life best friends. We met playing fake life, best friends, Turk and JD on the sitcoms grubs. Twenty years later, we ve decided to re watch the series one have pursued at a time and put our memories into a pod cast. You can listen to it home, we're gonna, get all our special guess. Friends, like sour chalk, John C Mckinley meal Flynn, Judy raise show create a bill. Lords editors, writers and even prop masters would tell us about what inspired the serious and how we became a family. You can listen to the pond cast fake doctors, real friends with Second Donald on the high heart radioactive apple podcast, and wherever you get your Marcus one night in nineteen sixty one on the side of a dark highway Betty Barney Hill caught lights in the sky. Two years later, the Underwood hypnosis to try and recall what happened

some took it his facts. Others thought it was a fantasy, but what really happened? That's a timber night in World New Hampshire join me he'll be ball for the inaugural season of strange arrivals, a co production of Iheart radio in grim and mild from errand monkey listen The strange arrivals on Iheart Radio, app on Apple podcast, sore or wherever you get your podcast.

From you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know a production of. I hope we lose our stuff works below. Welcome back to the show, I'm not wearing a hat labour intensive, I am wearing pants. My name is met, my name is no, they call me, then we are joined, as always, with our super producer, Paul mission Control, deck and, most importantly, you or you you are here, and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know this. Is a wartime episode as

record. Today's episode, the United States of America, is still in the middle of the longest war in the country's history. That means there are literally people listening to the show today who were not alive, win this war began. Think about that I did state invaded Afghanistan on October. Seventh, too, and one, and we are still there as we speak. Why which did our leaders new and win did they know it to answer that, oddly even though this country has been at war in this other country for the better part of two decades. Many people, many voters, aren't a hundred percent sure what asked, The sun is where it is

and why is such a big deal is also not the first time we ve been engaged there. No, no, no! No! This! This has an interesting name. First, things first here are the facts of Conniston is located in what is commonly called Eurasia rather than the vast stretch of land between, and the continent we call Europe eats landlocked its board, by some greatest hits countries in the rogues gallery of the United States, historically, Pakistan, IRAN, Tajikistan is and China Capital is. Please called Kabul, side of several cities, the country is extraordinarily rural. We're talking places that are simply physically hard to access in the mountains or in the rugged wilderness.

The country itself was not officially formed until seventeen o nine. But as you will alluded to match. It has a history, a long and bloody history of being a battleground. In fact, Afghan done is sometimes called the graveyard of empires due to just the sheer number of militaries the tried and failed to control it, and it's an interesting thing there because the just when we're talking about it's the battleground right leap, these were the wars are fought or the battles are fought and generally controlling. The area is kind of the goal, but a lot of times in- and this is what we're gonna kind of outline here- is that it's the The land of the place where to differ warring powers end up where they gonna go right. So it's not is not as though Afghanistan itself is rising up to you know fight a lot of the battles, its generally its we're proxy moors happen:

It's where we're it's interesting. We're getting continue on continue on with this rather show Silicious keep going down into the the history of Afghanistan still little ancient history showing death, so experts believe that early humans were living in Afghanistan as long as fifty thousand years ago, because it was rich soil for farming. There were communities of farmers in Afghanistan that were some of the very earliest farmers in the entire world and for a time the area was known as our or the land of Arians. This, because waves of people from Central Asia migrated to the region, and many of you settlers were in fact Arians. They were speakers. Parent language of indoor european languages area also migrated to Persia and India

in those prehistoric times and unless jumped to the sixth century, when the persian empire of the acumen, dynasty, controlled area and good luck, saying a committed, it's really fun into to look at and right in of the accumulated dynasty there, and he made his way to the eastern borders of the the last ruler of the accumulated diner de there, and he made his way to the eastern borders of the place that we was called Marianna now after this guy older great Alexander himself, died in three hundred and twenty three BC. It is early thirties feeling that he was a failure by the way and that Alexander, he sure was Grey was any I mean there's a guy who's. The guy the great thing did some huge stuff. Whether was great or terrible.

Depending on which side of the battles you're on a large scale stuff. Let's leave it. Ok, that's guess there we go home, so he died three and twenty three BC. All these other kingdoms, they're out there limbless name off here the so kids, maybe solutions solutions need Austria and the Indian, my you're an empire. They all were fighting to in an attempt to control this territory, there was known at the time as Oriana. So understandably, there are a lot of folks jockeying for position in the lot of kind of power grab situations in the van Yes, the History of Afghanistan involves a type of hand. Ass, empower grabs. We a lot of names that might be unfamiliar to the euro. Unless you have specific. Equally studied this history, so strap in we're just gonna? Do some highlights? A lot of these empires are no longer around and

the names will sound unfamiliar in the seventh century, Do you see EU which ever way you wanna go with that air, of armies carried this brand new religion of Islam to Afghanistan and eastern provinces of her out and sustained came under the rule of these arab forces, but the people of the he's provinces, revolting they returned to their old preexisting beliefs as soon as the Military forces were not literally using violence to make them pretend to practice Islam, in the tenth century. Muslim rulers called salmon aids from both car, I'm. What's those Pakistan, Stan, did their influence into the afghan area. And this, this kind of Lucy extending influence it means

there was a soft hedge, many, but you know expanding their people started to use the currency of those rulers. They started to speak similar languages. They acquired culture soon the salmon it establishes dynasty in Gaza me called the garden of AIDS and again Matt Prescient pronunciation. We do not speak these languages. The greatest of the gods David's was a king name off mood, who ruled from nine ninety eight to ten thirty here, the one most responsible for establishing the site, the Foundation of Islam, threw out the area of modern day Afghanistan, he let alone a military expeditions: India, India, even back. Then people started thinking of however, I understand too, as the gateway to these kingdoms of India, that state

falls in the middle of the twelfth century to the courage kingdom, which arose in girl. That's a west central region of present day Afghanistan, those guys kicked out early in the thirteenth century by another central asian dynasty, and these folks are all swept away around twelve twenty c e by Genghis Khan, oh yeah, that guy his calm actually call Genghis Khan, I'm Genji Genji K, Jane Jane Key sure made me of that tower game. Jangle, oh yes, and so we include. We include some of this ancient history because important to know that, already twelve twenty already two of the greatest conquerors in the world have come through this place, and now third, when appears near the end of the fourteenth century fee, central asian military leader, Timor, Lang or the lame Timor also

tamer lane in the West conquered gonna start, then he immediately moved on to India. And when he moved on his is children in his descendants. Could hold the empire together. They rule everything their grandfather their patriarch took over, but they were able to keep a hold on Afghanistan, roughly four a little while and now we get to where it eventually becomes a then independent nation. As we said in seventeen hundreds becomes independence, but there's a story behind that too. There's even more switching off people are trying to control this. Their die left and right and we're gonna talk about let's say a strategy. You something's gonna ripple across time here that occurs in the eighteenth century. The king, of Persia around that time. A guy named a deer Shaw. He was

employing this tribe of Pash Dunes there and of Dolly tribe of pests tunes, and he was using them in his wars in India, So he's he's got a contingency of other fighters in you, I wouldn't call them mercenaries, but their their fight, four under another flag, essentially fighting under his flat rate Ahmad modest this of Dolly Chief who gained this high post within, army there. He is dead himself after and Dear Shaw's assassination. That's the guy we're talking about the king of Persia, after he was assassinated in seventeen. Forty seven

So a mud Shaw is, you know, looking to move up a little bit, and thankfully, this assembly of Tribal Chiefs proclaimed him the new Shaw and then the Afghans extend their rule, is far east as Kashmir and daily in the north to the Amu, Darya and West into northern Persia. So they really just begin expanding their under the rule of Homage Shaw, yeah and retires from the throne in one thousand seven hundred, and seventy two is one of the few people with the option of retiring he dies in Qandahar. He has a son TIM Moore, shot, assumes control, Empire survives mostly intact through the next when two years, nothing by that time

yeah. Seventeen. Seventy to America is forming right right in this time period, increasingly irritated colonists, half a world away are dreaming of revolution in saying hey one day there will be a pop Broadway play about us, and you may be wondering rightly. So. What is all this have to do with me? What does all this obscure eurasian history have to do with me, when does my team enter the game? Alot of people in the West are wondering well, There is an entire era of history involved heavily involving Afghanistan that concern Just this. It's called the great game. We did an episode on this earlier longtime listeners may recall but look slightly glimpse. What's the quick and dirty way degree game is world dominance.

Really that's what it is. It's a bunch of extremely powerful countries and people deciding hey, maybe mean the ruler of all this. Let's see what we can do, but there are all these other people trying to do the same thing. So we have, play these my the games and diplomatic games and resource control gains for most of the nineteenth century, one thousand eight hundred and thirty one thousand eight hundred and ninety five to be precise, the british and russian empires, for control of central and South Asia including the country of Afghanistan. This period was known, as you mentioned, that as the great game, where both empires were trying to protect and secure their own territories they already held and also expanding outward into others. Britain was a huge player in this game in that they were very concerned that Russia might take control over India, which was the crown jewels, the british Empire,

but the fact that Russia will. This wasn't really something that they had designs on, but you know Britain that you gotta protect but she got near, reveal a f gases. Time became once again as you mad, a very fertile battleground right, can see You can see some excellent fiction based on this period of time, a work by Rudyard Kipling, tensely problematic author by I would say, tat to poet I he wrote a novel called Kim, which is about a child becoming embroiled in what the later learn is. The great game, redder Kip. Of course, would be, would be remiss not to mention this is the person is the person most responsible for the phrase white Man's burden. So is not a good dude. That was a well written book a series of conflict transpire in real life, not just in the book and

These are these are breaking out two wars, but they don't really turn in two world wars. At this point, one of these conflicts the second Anglo Afghan war, which was from eighteen thirty, eight to forty two ended. In a treaty that gave Britain control of Afghanistan's foreign affairs, so it turned into a vassal or a puppet state. Until one thousand nine hundred and nineteen. When I'm going to lock on declared independence from british influence, he tried to introduce some social norms as polish, the practice of products which, easy. Easy is the The other women should not be like allowed to be seen or interact, and public so use the more forward facing leader in some social regards I'm here.

Trying to do that really trying to hinder fleeing the country. Nineteen, twenty nine people did not really big people were not receptive to this change next, Zahir Shah, becomes king and for the following four years of Ghana, stun is a monarchy in nineteen, fifty three, a guy named General Mohammed doubt became prime minister. He turn to the Soviets to the USSR. He said help me out with the economy. Help me old military assistance also I want to introduce some social reforms, including the abolition of product. He was must resign. In nineteen sixty three said ten year rule there, but a nineteen seventy three. He rig power in a coup- and he said, ok- now we're republic, and he said you know what I get. Get the trend of history. Here, someone tried to play these world powers against one another. It doesnt work.

The way he wanted it to, because, just a few years later in nineteen, seventy eight he is murdered or assassinated in a pro soviet coup. There's a new governing faction, the new kids on the block in this situation of the Peoples Democratic Party. It come to power. But they have a lot of inviting in their own jockeying, for position in the hierarchy, and then Of course, they are eternally battling. The mujahideen groups that are backed by Uncle SAM, that is was at one time. Scene is controversial, and that is clearly a proof. In fact, and let's pause: for where from our sponsor and then we'll get to. The modern history.

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So the soviet era Paul. Can we get some kind? You know like really authoritarian sounding big yeah, that kind of music there we go soviet era, yes, so the USSR. It's it's in Afghanistan, in nineteen, seventy, nine it really is trying to shore up this newly established regime right that we talk about the people's Democratic Party, that's running things over there and those guys or whether we in the capital couple and in short order nearly a hundred thousand soviet soldiers took control of a lot of the major areas, the cities, the highways, the ways things are being transported all by all means an Here's the thing people really take to that

There was rebellion. If it came quickly, it was all over the place. The soviets were dealing harshly with the Mujahideen rebels and of the people of the families, the small groups there were supporting them. They were just taking out entire villages again, like sounds so familiar of the course of history and the things we ve talked about. They're they're, trying to deny any place where or that would be considered a safe haven for enemy soldiers to be hanging out, and you know regrouping and while this is happening there are outside foreign supporters who were propping up all of these diverse groups of rebels that are fighting back against the Soviet Union, playing the great game once again, exactly that that whole the proxy, the proxy The whole thing is in full effect here and

You know you guys rebels, fourteen from IRAN, Pakistan, China, the U S, even as some people over their training folks and having fighters over there in theirs rule nine year, conflict that goes on and on and on and in, estimated one million civilians are killed in this conflict. Ghana stands civilians. As well as others in their also ninety thousand mujahideen fighters. Eighteen thousand afghan troops and for fourteen thousand five hundred soviet soldiers, all of them who are killed in this ban these battles in this conflict and the? U S, support varied in many different ways over the course of this conflict. This we do after member. This is cold war era, yeah right so so originally they had some suits and some agents from the company.

Company re right right and it starts with the sea ties company it does and in by nineteen eighty six they were becoming more, they were being less subtle uncle SAM was they started, supplying stinger missiles to the mujahideen, which we're game changer, because these stinger missiles allow people on the ground to shoot down soviet helicopter gunships and nineteen. Eighty eight, four countries: Afghanistan, the USSR, Pakistan, the the: U S, sign peace accords and the Soviet Union says: ok, Wilson, pulling out troops the last of the troops leave the next year. Nineteen, eighty nine and civil war consumes the country which Not have surprised anyway, Louis Talk really quickly about some of the landscape there and the mountains. The mountain ranges, though, the mountainous areas very highly of some,

very stark areas where You know as the mujahideen, if you're, giving something like a singer missile when you're just troops on the ground is very difficult to battle against something like these soviet gunships, the helicopters that can role through they can travel across these landscapes to ever. They need to be in their heavily armed, but you know if you're, on the ground as just a single person or even a battalion small battalion anywhere from a hundred to ten people, fight backing as the gunship is very, very difficult, but if you're good, the singer missile can hide out somewhere within you know that terrain you easily have an upper hand there and again the ripples throughout time of things that we are going to see we're in splices in the hands of somebody that understands the area that has lived there.

You only need a few people to gain the upper hand on large military forces once when others things where you see enemy is even like as an owl sketches from in time and combating wanting on a welfare sketches from those days near the one. Where is the old prospector lawyer, I seem ass his great but its work, critical, and is playing the sergeant or whatever, and he keeps making the joke that it's an unconventional unconventional war, so I gotta use unconventional methods of some sketches having an old prospector to lead them through the the terrain. But it's true that's what they're talking about this thing heard thrown around constantly in the news, was what an conventional war wasn't required. Unconventional tactics yet in this case in an old prospector out. You forget the premise within old prospector, whose, like a cousin of somebody who was in command of the military, Isn t much good. You need somebody who has lived. There knows the history and the tree yet then also for the record, the old.

We'll feral, sketches and general hold up. Oh yeah! Oh my god. I'm not saying that because he's technically coworker of ours just because they do hold up a pickle shoe sentiment in Grave Sue who comes out ahead in this next adoration, the power vacuum. That would be a group known as the Taliban. These control of Kabul by one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven. They have a solid grip. What about two thirds of the country in their starting to be recognized in the international sphere? Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, for instance, both recognize the government and tell is the Eu S enters the a game as a full on combating and stiffer it because before proxy wars Riah, let's call these people rob remove Iders, yeah, yeah and so fast forward. As we say, the top there October two thousand one

U S lead bombing of Afghanistan begins, and this is right after the attacks, on September, eleventh two thousand one on the: U S: Soil aunt, I Taliban Northern Alliance forces inner Kabul Prick right after in this marks the official beginning of what has become the longest were in: U S, history across next eighteen years mould we'll president's three different administrations. From Both sides of the: U S political divide, we continually escalate the conflict, it would send more troops. They were proposed what they called surges. They would vow. We were making progress in a war that we knew we could win today's question: what if they were lying? Here's where it gets crazy.

So behind the scenes. Everyone knew all of the decision makers knew this was a disaster and that you recently had a conversation that touched on. Some of this is our right I guess quite a bit in I spoke with a gentleman named Steve Hooper that I very much want to have on the show we want to have on the show I forget his exact titles within the FBI, but he was a high level person. I hope he doesn't mind me saying his name. He he has Had cast on the I network, thirty talks about some of this stuff. So It should be ok, but he he's talking more about how the United States was keeping was aware, are very much aware of one Osama Bin Laden and alibi enforces. You know, after all of the because weeks and help that we essentially given.

That area in all we know our intelligence agencies know a lot of the operators we know a lot of the mechanisms that that exist out there with some of these forces, and they also knew just- past bombings, like the ninety ninety three attack on the World Trade Center, where a writer truck was used and Thankfully, did not destroy the entire building, then in eighteen. Ninety three, but it was certainly a disaster in a terror attack in a major, a major warning. Sign, basically that oh, we need to be paying attention to this, and he was telling me that after that attack and ninety three, the intelligence apparatus is were so aware of it. However, we went right back to the FBI least went right back to focusing on drugs, gangs and drug cartels that existed and were operating within the? U S and they didn't turn their eyes towards terrorism. At that point,

because there was a lot of us doing of information and gay keeping right. Yes, because again, you think about operating outside of the: U S, we're intelligences gathered operating inside the? U s a lot, times its separated and this whole thing. It kind of became a mess illegally. Stephen urge conversation o F, you create the Department of Homeland Security and, as that giant behemoth of organizations begins trying to keep tabs on things like that and organise you know who's controlling what who's looking into what I see a mass, that's not true. Anyone who's out their working in any these organisations. You know that's not! certainly true, but he was certainly then panes of something bigger ones poetic I like that Yeah it's it is. It is unfortunately, true, that many of the same people publicly touting progress in this, quagmire, we're all

in the very same people lamenting the doomed situation at least doomed, as they saw buying closed doors. We know this is not a conspiracy theory. We know this is indisputably true. Thanks to the fantastic journalistic efforts and the of the Washington Post and the real and publication of something called the Afghanistan papers on December, this year. The wash imposed Finally, one a legal battle that was three years in the making- and the war in Afghanistan continues today a boy. What did they get? What happens will tell you after a word from our sponsor. You owe me to do the planned gas candidates talk what one with blue Joe brandy and marking Craig Waterman the pot brothers that law we are the world's number one podcast for everything cannabis. Now the podcast canopy talk one or one. We all share a passion for entertaining and educating the cannabis community will be discussing. The pros

and the cause of all things cannabis, including new laws and regulations, listen the candidates I wanna, one on the eye: heart, radio, app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast, a three year legal Battle, Washington Post requires more than two thousand pages of quote lessons learned and quote: these are enemies are conducted by the office, Especial Inspector general for Afghanistan, reconstruction or see guardian. Yet, oh gimme, I loved it cigar and it's not pretty what's uncovered here. There was no internal consensus on any objective, any reasons for going to war. The country was spending billions of dollars with no idea whatsoever. What any kind of end game looked like They literally had no idea how to get out of the war. There was no exit strategy will, though, if you go,

recall back in this was just too date myself, a little bit this was occurring. Right around the time that I was gonna be finishing and graduated from high school, as all these conflicts are occurring. As the debates about the stuff is happening, and I remember for first time, not the first time, but maybe the first time, looking at the news with a little more understanding of history after some classes that I was taking and hearing people discuss this there would argue on the news. I will what what is it? Actually? What does this conflict actually, but victory mean what does it look like and you have even the president coming on and Can a given you a vague you know it's victory. You know it's good, we're gonna victory, rights white. What does that mean? Yeah the eighty

The thing is there was not the worst, some metrics for ideas of success, but there was nothing that people greed on with concrete steps, there was no universal definition. And without a universal definition. As Chin chamber would say: things fall apart: the post got the hundreds of memory There are really there almost like they're almost like Youtube erratic comments from Donald H Rumsfeld. Were called in. This has nothing to do with the current usage of the word today. Yes, but they were called snowflakes. No, that's more of our right wing pejorative on the internet today by in this case the recall snowflakes, because they were just sort of bees. Bring called on all these communications brief instructions or comments that the that right,

felt would tell his employees during horse of his time, working on the war and things that are so informed. Linked. There's there's one It says in the sure who the enemies are here. Let's give only don't know with where she had someone for sure. I swore together these memos and these two thousand plus pages reveal by this freedom of Information ACT. They function as a genuine secret history of what we know of The war some people taking a longer view of history, would say well, this is just another act. The ongoing war that has current on the land of Afghanistan. How much longer, then, ten years, but here's we learned the reports the journalist Anna analysed at the wash imposed, found food,

com in disturbing things running throughout these papers and they're pretty brutal do here. But we look And they are well researched and not a ton of editorializing eyes, every single year covered by papers? U S visuals, at least some of them purposefully. Refused to tell the public the truth about the war in some way or another would issue these pronouncements. They would say stuff that the street of New wasn't true and they were hide unmistakable evidence that for one reason or another, the war had become unwinnable, which was an odd concept of it. Being winnable were unwinnable because it just didn't. Might there was one or the other right. Chocolate rations have been increased right here and now they're gonna be eighty percent less than they were so they also in these papers. We see that

officials who were interviewed and again this what this was all internal documentation, and so they wanted to tell the truth the they depicted purposeful, explicit efforts by the: U S, government, to mislead the public, and then they also its. You could describe it, and maybe this is a little bit too much editorial voice here, but you could describe it as, a sort of collective disbelief in the facts can a cherry picking the stuff that would be good, ignoring this stuff. That would run counter to the narrative. Soon everybody is like everybody's. Do anything we're doing, go right, we're going to all agree that this is fine. Everything's great we're, gonna, win and stuffs gonna be good afterwards, you know what you're doing,

what that guy? Who said the house is on fire. What he meant was is warming cozy, and here yes at this banner. What does it say? Mission accomplished, we're done. That's sweet bomber jacket emulated a shrine that confident gate The president has seriously and again it's its funding, because people who consider themselves domestic political partisans in the? U S like someone who would definitely hate the right side of american politics? Would b we win levy valid, inviting criticism of the misleading pr that they were begins. I was doing when they had a presidential administration, people who hated the left side would levy the same again valleyed criticism. At the

Democrat administrations because they were doing the same thing. All the changed was the brand names on the facts. It was still a bucket of poison pills. They just had different labels do you're. So right, though, and I remember seeing that. We're gonna, have a surge, ran, surgical, fair, but that's ok, let's just one deliberate, at the very least at the most generous deliberately misleading the public, who is by the way pain billions of dollars for this and here's the thing we kind of mention of above this number, two by the way, the officials from you know the United States in the coalition forces the allies that were going into Afghanistan with us. They, pretty much admitted openly that the mission had really no discernible strategy, but we don't know. There's there doesn't seem to be a strategy? We ve got a lot of people there there a lotta troops there and

Some facilities that were building but yeah. We really dont have great object, if we were not sure, were doing her stuff on the on the level of like what have you got started tied? Does it in time Todd. Put a really well like I remember walking out of a meeting- and I was like this is for sure, what we're doing and scant Chemical hundred percent of a right now seem so confident everything you know, and then I he's a cecy such a gives gotta such good haircuts. I mean I just love the cut of his jacket. You can tell a man in a like. He goes to a manicure o after the lilies. Cubicles are hackamore and you just be can't really disbelieve a guy like that. So I, as far as I was concerned, if Todd's good were good writer, rewrite Hopefully retired can just keep us. Keep that morale up. You know in the interview is like tied, who and the That's great. You got disappears the work there are a lot of

work somewhere building and maybe in the subway been in general. I just lucky you as you know, and when you see em, it's true at first, there was this pretty solid rationale there were going to were aiming to destroy our guide, who why you're were involved in these various terrorist acts, not just being accused of involvement in these, timber eleventh attacks, but also be active in attacks throughout the nineties that you mentioned earlier met with certain leaders with names that you might know where people there is purportedly a part of them yet, but Todd would never do that for once, once Al Qaeda, been you largely muzzled, officials involved said.

They had mission creep, the goals got muddy and unclear and they began adopting strategies that might contradict the strategies of other agencies or institutions, and I start having goals that were unattainable. People who were running this war folks are dying billions of dollars going down the drain. People in charge were saying. I approach the basic questions who is the enemy? Here? I am being hyperbolic when Donald Rumsfeld said that who is the enemy here? Who, amidst these various complicated groups and alliances, can we count on as allies? And also you know? as we requested, drop it for thirty on a Friday, but how do we know when we ve won? There's there's no bell that goes off were specific person you have to defeat or

king, to overthrow right. You know: there's no goal posts like that, yet It turns out they eat the third revelation years into the conflict, the you I did state still had. Very poor understanding of of the country overall a fish. From not just the U S, but also from the afghan government, told interviewers that a lot of the policies and initiatives coming from Uncle SAM, everything from like training afghan forces to trying to say it again, trying to push through. Trying to stop the opium trade. All them fell. They were designed to fail, whether that because of incompetence, because our based on flawed assumptions, whether because there was some sort of ulterior motive or whether it was just a country, they did not understand, or you

I don't wanna put my biases on a better country. There may be some of those people in charge. Just didn't care about at a certain level. There are disturbing accounts, are allegations in interviews and in some of these papers, where Visual say something like We were just giving consultants tons of money and You know so my were fired and playing and they would read the kite runner or something whether on the plane and they would hop out and think that they understood everything This place is been a battleground for centuries and centuries and has been trod upon by one outside empire after another. The fourth one. Which clearly is a bit of a cheap, I myself have been having a hard time, not mentioning this. Yet the? U S flight,

billions and billions and billions of dollars down the GEO political drain. Trying to nation build in Afghanistan, nation building is a risky endeavour that can pay great dividends. You get it off. The ground is once called colonialism that building a different kind of nature, her hind heard used by over that's only yesterday. They wanted to. I don't they were just so out of out of ouch. What was happening so the There's this there's this great comparison Similarly, in the accounts of the early days here, neck economic boom for the military, industrial, complex, obviously, for the Associated Energy in defence industries, it was a boom contractors. Of course,

and we can just say like that- was immediately affected by these September. Eleventh attacks and the public exe. Captains essentially that year we should probably protect ourselves more and spend a lot more money than we were sure so will pay for it. You handle the details, yet I wanted you'll do it. When I see the news and feel like I've done my part so. Since it is so here's the ears, the simile One of the sources says my he is like water gonna start was like a desert and when you poor. Too much water too quickly, the and cannot absorb it yeah. And it becomes a wash with this money and that I do it struck me because it. It not only does it feel true but the unfortunate

you're being true since two thousand and two the? U S has allocated more than eighty three billion dollars in security assistance to Afghanistan that dwarfs the fence budget, the entire defence budget of other developing nations at two thousand eleven alone at the peak of the war. This country got eleven billion dollars, insecurity, aid from Washington three billion more than what Pakistan, which has nuclear weapons in a way bigger army spent on its entire military that year. That's not these eight billion and the? U S gave I've, got it eleven bill, you know I do want to say it- may sound like we're being unfair. Here we after a member that d military operators, people for the? U S, government and the the the contractors of all

they're not in these rooms there, not in these, these board rooms in these war rooms and so on, there being sent to a place to risk their lives and they are, they are trying to save people on the ground. Yonah mean they're, trying to help civilians are trying to prevent these deaths. Ah, yes, man, but the other side of that coin is about the you almost feeling of a goal lists he patient, like that call a lot of situations where you know A few as a small amount of those contractors in military personnel felt, as though or at least acted as though there was no rule of law

There are no rules, certainly good things could happen there and I think it's because that top down guidance just didn't exist. When we talk to about how you not maybe this is hyperbolic and an effort, people kind of Poohpooh this idea, but comparing Afghanistan to Vietnam in the sense that it was very difficult terrain at an enemy that they didn't fully understand and It seemed to have empowered alot military personnel to commit some atrocity, ray. We also have to consider a think that is, I don't think, that's These comparison, we also have to consider that A lot of the horror stories we hear came from the crimes private contractors super work in private industry. They ve been subcontracted out by the: U S, government or NATO, or they come from people who were supposed to be the authorities in in lake from honest. I yes said: do you know they're? There are stories which are true

military service members being brave. I didn't been dishonorably discharge because they fuse to tolerate the sexual abuse of children which they saw for, hand not in not in some way now sketchy part of town necessarily but like in Lee Police Chief compound the police station or having to make nice way warlords and crime deal with them because of their influence over. You know a region of the area, just for inflation in for just as they say, talking Turkey for perspective, eleven billion. U S dollars is me for then, the? U S spent in the entirety of Western Europe, with the Marshall Plan after World WAR, two the entire ready, but after

almost two decades of help from Washington or attempt, from Washington. He asked the army and the police force are, still not probably it can be capable of sending off all these insurgents. Not just the Taliban is its eye ass. These lummix state and others without outside assistance, without back up from the? U S military. I just want to jump in there really fast. Before we keep going just the two. We mention the Marshall Plan, which was of thee. The programme we mention was after a war to as well, but those a programme of aid right. The way that we gave to most of you are a lot of Europe just to rebuild. After the battles were fought in that region, just wanna exact Yeah and thank you. So, though, back to the money which promised hurry. I know you're gonna, stop harpy! Guy some boy, it's just like. It's crazy. What could eleven billion dollars? Do you know what I mean

superpowers could maiden be rocked. There could be. Brought into life right, There was so much money flowing that bribery, fraud and corruption, they became superpower as tendencies and trends one adviser it was the! U S said that when was working this critical? air base. Many afghan people. Me native afghan people who work in their regularly wreaked of jet fuel because they were just smuggling so much of it out to sell on the black market and we have another point about option with in the police force, and this this comes

an interviewee who is comfortable being named. Yes in one interview, Thomas Johnson was a Navy official serving as a counter insurgency adviser in Kandahar Province said that the Afghans viewed Lee police as predatory bandits. He called them quote the most hated institution and all of Afghanistan and then another interviewee, an unnamed norwegian official told interviewers that he estimated thirty percent of afghan police recruits. Deserted with their government issued weapons of they could quote, set up their own private checkpoints, a Highway robbery right literally extorting people there travelling through, yet what they were doing right right end, The other statements sees officials make doll it's pretty, but of course we

You know we have to point out again that part of this is a may, be a function of these shifting goalpost right, but do not know who your enemies are not know who that is through your enemies and realizes is, is tat, we especially situation like this. Other revelations. It turns out that several senior- U S, officials believe there was a realistic opportunity to cut a peace deal with the Taliban back in two thousand and two or two thousand and three again we're not saying it's definite, we're saying that's what they felt was in the cards also of came out new I was surprised Congress and you with Congress. It's tough like how many is performing is ray. I have to be set at this for my constituents who may know that I was definitely upset at this ray in theirs by partisan, theirs by partisan anger, this at least, if we look at senators rich,

Blumenthal and Josh Howley they're both on these Sinner Armed Services Committee and they ve already called for hearings based on these reports, even for Afghan present at home in cars. I gave him a view to the Ap Associated Press. Recently, and he said the Afghanistan papers prove the. U S was at fault for his country's corruption, however, Craig Whitlock. One of the journalist who brought the story, the light from the post said U S was at fault, but the afghan government did not prosecute many people for corruption or fraud. That's for sure and this this is where This is where this leaves us. I know it's a high level look but there's so many other things to report. A new revelation. Shirley Wright has a lot of documents here. I'm glad you brought that up. No because yeahs, we record today the Washington Post. We said it was an ongoing war for them right there

stewing court fighting for more documents and their pressing cigar to identify result a nukes wish. No one wants scorched earth policy Currently, the Trump Administration is holding direct peace talks with the Taliban. A lot of the experts that the post spoke with said that they believe the only way to end this war is to cut a deal that militarily, it is impossible to entirely defeat the Taliban unless it's something likes sewing the salt, a nukes wish. No one wants scorched earth policy. I am yet please don't do that. Anyone is listening. You has one of those things ends given these out civilians. Now Pascal baby, it's only things you have to buy three to get the deal. Does your memory, twenty twenty? Three that whole declaration happened, and we oughta nukes that it was the

usually assured discredit destruction, agreement of twenty four either at other, have a giant psychic squid. Those are coming to have ever heard. The news, the Good NEWS yeah. There's this guy he's working on a giant intergalactic squid thing I don't know, I don't know the details. I have no comment: are you the guy? I know. Look, let's go to a different yours. This is another thing about this story that is still continuing, and this I don't know this is just my. I want to be too conspiratorial. I do want to know It is a fact that currently- on a stone, still dominates global opium markets last year, according to the EU in office on drugs and crime, sue twenty thousand eighteen right, Eighty two percent of the world's opium supply was produced in Afghanistan.

Some of the biggest problems in the. U S, their drug related come from opium not a ton of it here, are they know, you know the difference the different. Pharmaceutical companies that are probably gonna avoid too many serious consequences of creating the opium crisis. Nobody, conspiracy here of evil ledges, we're just going hey, look at them I'm just say we talked about this in a previous episode, just how much security was devoted to what looks like from them reporting and the images that were sent back over the course of years up until very recently that we are protecting the poppy fields, I guess from allowing anyone to you, slim

right. Well is also tough, because you can see interviews with farmers in the area who say you know, I am a subsistence farmer. I let the third We're different plans to ensue. New crops for gash, but It makes the most money to sell and- and the mark is huge, the worst part as those farmers are not making. What nobody's gonna be buying a mansion. Doing same way with cocaine in Colombia and remain largely the cartels put the burden of cultivating at growing it on these families who look at it. As in our some sort of subsistence living, but they're not sharing in the profits of the criminal enterprise. Again and swore grass right elephants make war. The grass suffers its there's a lot of stuff tat. We may soon gotta emphasise on the indian, no, we have to emphasise the human element going to mean

People who are soldiers are not bad. People who are civilians a country that is being subjected to a conflict are not bad either. This is these are all human beings were trying to survive, and the horrific thing is that a lot of decisions upon which lives hinged army- by people who will never physically travel to the places where they see their consequences of their decisions, made real add to that, but I don't need to desert lease that yeah. I right there with you. That is tremendously frustrating in quite heartbreaking, actually and we know that we have a lot of survivors of conflicts in we're audience. Today we have many military veterans. Our audience today as Well- and we are- because we have people who have a fur hand, look at what the mill

to recall the facts on the ground. So if you are come from all you are by no means obligated. But if you are comfortable sharing your story with us, we would love to hear from you please Let us know if it's something you're comfortable, sherry on air or if you would just like to give an anonymous account, you can find Facebook. You can find a sun instagram. You can find us on twitter we're spears, stuff, twitter and Facebook. We are conspiracy, does show on Instagram. We also highly recommend our Facebook community page here. Where it gets crazy, but wait as Billy niece want to say, there's more, you can find US son as individuals on some of those social needs. Yes, I am a mat Frederick underscore I heart, I think I thought you'd. I thought you'd torched in No, I was, I was,

was thrown people off my sent. I see your social sent now back I'm glad to hear I follow you. I was worried that are willing. I get the the joy of of experiencing your online presence any well look at that. I propose anything in two and a half year so anyway, I would say that, while eighty trumps quantity year does indeed I Try to go for that. Emma on my social media account singular where you can find me at how now nor Brown exclusively on Instagram. Is there like I'm sponsored by them or something I am, I am on those social media as well. You can check me out at then bowling on Instagram, and twitter at then Bowling Hs W, but hey be saying I hate social media. If I did a buoyant, I love it. His unclean

I have a story to tell you one of what my to do while I will tell you there's a number. You can call me some other stuff, but right before we get to that. I just wanna put out here that we are talking about the Washington Post in some amazing reporting that they did. But there is, the people there so If you want to go to other sources, I just wanted to give people a few places. They could find your wording on this. There is one that, if you just Google, that you will find from the Atlantic that has a pretty good right up on it, but the one the source that I really appreciated the sig? I think its signature on line see I gee I on line the centre for international governments nation. They have a really interesting whole series of articles about the Afghanistan papers Yeah yeah, I, the guardian, is done some great work to add also like I mean I don't know with if people

fans are fools of red it by ready. As a separate called ask historians, which gives some fantastic background, to some other deeper dives of afghan history that we didn't get into today, excellent In the not to say that you can't access the Afghanistan papers, it's called Afghanistan papers, a secret history of the war. You can find it there's one called at war with the truth. That's for! Craig would lock in you, you can't find there and accessed. I just know that as you're going through navigating you made hit some walls there, this put in another- so let's just jump to the idea that you can call us if you wish to. You can call one eight three three, as a t d w why the UK leave a message. Talk to us just would then said earlier anything you want to tell us that you feel comfortable. Doing please do

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