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what those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn. Stop they don't want you to know a production of. I hope we, hello. Welcome back to show my name is met. Our colleague Knoll is on an adventure, but he will return soon. They call me then were joined, as always with our super producer, Paul mission, control, deck and most certainly you or you are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. We go to some pretty dark places in the show matters, especially recently. This is this is one where we can take our feet up in the beginning and talk about the finer things in life. You know me

despite least my background here. As a move around this room, I would say you and I have some refine taste right and most people do wonder what are some examples of stuff. You what are some examples of stuff that you're like willing to spend a little extra money on for the quality of half? We do more. The most delicious of the cafe? Also above you, Durban? I love it pure. My wishes. Hazel nut waivers, you're good at finally, fine art I thoroughly actual, I see now all. These are all fantastic examples. Dude I wish I had. I mean I've got a bunch of creepy old books, of course, but

that's me yeah, you, you nailed it dessert, excellent examples in an almost Everybody, I would say not just the people listening today. We all have refine taste for like at least one or Things are another. You know you might be really into classic cars. You you don't care. What will you don't care wit about but you need to have a good classic car. You might be your head, you might only have limited release. You know Jordan's, you might spend a lot of time in income chasing down limited release, music or rare books are expensive, clothing authorization symbols. I get it. Oh yes, children symbols one of the world All this continually functioning companies, I think, actually might be the world's oldest. Then you they are mass produced for the most part, but their somehow There are some rare soldiers as awesome and

You know it might be like we have a pal, a friend of the show the one and only Mister Ramsay Gun to his producer here with us. I in here he has a particular particularly refine taste for japanese whiskey. I know it's a whole thing. It's all genre, but with all of the jail You and I are naming Those has become the foundation of a massive global industry and today, as you, currently set us up for export. One of the most high end most serious more of these industries, the weird world of fine art, its place picture fellow conspiracy, realist where the rich there, NATO than the criminal mingle in the oddest vin diagrams, a business that orbits the lives of some of the world's most powerful people. It's a world that alien to the vote

the majority of human beings alive today and honestly many of you world insiders, hope and pray that it stays that way for ever. Why? Well, here, the yes, so this art world, that is rather uniform too? Many of our experiences is actually vast, very very large. Much Can you imagine in your head probably that you assume in its always been- I dont know there there's a fast. listen to it. If you think back to films that you ve seen anything from. Oceans. Eleven to I don't know, Ben you'd have to name like a few other these a bond films. There's this aristocrats see to do this stuff, you Know- and you Just imagine the money in this space because you get

may. Even if you don't know much about the art seen, you may have scene. galleries or auctions, where just millions and millions of dollars are being thrown around at art, anything why right and you ate you'd he'll, like you know that I love the. I love the image it's a troop now of people, aggressively bidding for something. I was just playing finally In short it for try to serious yeah. There's a hidden, there's theirs auctions seeing this not a spoiler, but there an auction seeing where people are trying to bid on a and artifact touch on the world of antiquities Abed. Today, too, I suspect and eat there's a lot of cross pollination, their yeah, exactly ins for beat the scene. You see in films where there is like one guy who's holding up his little Europe is all

sighing thing. You know, and I do mean to have two million two million jamais, not three million. Do I have three point five point five, and in some other guy makes a stink facings. I mean through point five and in its cheapskate. and then you know inevitably there's its use we think the bad guy who just gets tired of the cap mouse game. It throws up their little thing, the little paddle and just names thirdly high number and there like five hundred million dollars than ever. Oh wow, dang. Now have to do a heist and there is a reason for pushing up the price of in that way that I am sure will be talking about later this autumn, episode. Oh boy, yeah, I mean it's it's, trajectory world isn't it it's also one has long been a subject of special fascination for the disciples

the dismal sites. Economists at the most basic level, the art market is it's just a bunch of people buying stuff, it's a bunch of people, selling stuff and they're just happened to be trading in works of art or we get loosely call them are related services. There are two parts to big categories: the primary market, that's where new art hits the scene and then the secondary market. That's for art that has been sold at least one before and the art market it's not the same as buying a used car. The used the secondary market is where you see a lot of the big money changing hands, because the price the secondary market is usually gonna, be dictated by the price of which a given peace sold the first time around but not quite there's a reason. The economists like this ill without

into the weeds egg. Heads dig it because, evolves so much more than just supply and demand nea. If you man with the georgian symbols you ve got certain how does that make this thing up? You know different metals debtors melted down to then create the sting in its its Men are, maybe I might be stretching here a little bit, but I'm just imagining that, with with art, it is some that is created out of those complaints. But it's a brand new thing and you have to value- has to placed upon that part of it and that oh, you is very subjective. Yeah beautifully! Put no love, I love that you're bringing up the aspect of the components they are met because, let's take that for example, which is awesome. You can all you can predict the cost of the components right and NATO can prove you can produce,

the amount of labour rail required to make one symbol and then with information, you can predict the price you can sell it at and then you can predict the profit, but in the world of art, Likud, such a good question How much did they can this end? The paint for the Mona LISA Right, because here, you're not via the cost to the page? At this point I its needs and fantastic, We ended something that economists spend a lot of time on because of that subject value? How do we harrowing quantify we put a number on a non quantitative thing. That's why the art? world has elements of what they would call a prediction market. The in question has kind of a fluid fee. shhh waiting financial value and that cultural value is a huge piece of this You know they gun the right real,

old circumstances can massively increase the value of a given artist work. Badly when they die, that does that becomes a big dealing type. that, and maybe when the rivers and shakers of the art world, like an influential critic, says this? Is the new Bosky ought to write off this? Is this The next you know Frida Kahlo or something then boom people to be someone who already had their finger on the pulse. This result can happen with things like beanie babies by the well yes, oh yeah, magical That is its weird to think that value. Can be generated, have nothing from a piece, a single piece of art because of its like singular cultural value, but Similarly, it can be placed on the creator of that are right. All the sudden anything Artists touches is going to be elevated up to that level, which is over

No, no, it's so strange to me that both can can occur and all the only way that that's generated is by other people deciding that that artist or piece of art is worth x, amount of millions yeah. You know you and I are lucky enough to a lot of phenomenal artist. Both is just friends of ours outside of of the orbit of the show and then also and am grateful for this week. Hundred know a lot of amazingly talented artists through this shows specifically through stuff they don't want you to know. I need please. I don't know about you, man, but it always makes my day when someone says hey. You know I listen to your show, while I'm sculpting or doing iron working or painting and here's a thing that I thought you guys would like and when I see it I have to be honest, think back to bite us, but usually when I see those things, my first thought is

That is so much better than the actual show, because the level of accomplishment there is. Is stunning, will you know vision? the Turbo Benson first of all, but all the same of art than I held up. An original nagel- will your Georgian go from this a local artist here in Georgia. I do in my collection, It is seriously amazing stuff. So look out for it, it will be going on auction sometime in twenty twenty three, that amazing. really narrow way say that now, but you never know The reason we never know is because there's is another is another weird nay comes into play in the economics of the art world. It's called the greater fool principle. means. Yes, somebody will pay a certain price for something, even if it makes him crazy high, because there is an assumption. Let's be honest, a bet made

that later they'll be able to sell it to somebody else for a higher price. A nap Some will later often attempt to do the same, so its kind like a snark name for what happens I, but what? What its implying is that it might be foolish for me to buy this thing at this price, but there be someone more foolish than me in the future. dollar somewhere. Surely I have not the world's dumbest person more resources, are raising art, fine art, is a really long game, hot potato head on for some people actually yeah, you know for some people is and, of course, for other This is just something that is of great person, historical or cultural value. You know like sometimes you'll, see well heeled philanthropists, buy up air, my pieces,

from an artist to they feel is under pre shaded, who comes from their home town or their home region or their veto, their home community and they'll. Do it because they want to inspire the people living in that in that place, you know I'm just making up jump lab at specific one. But let's say there a multi millionaire, maybe in Botswana or me, in Panama or whatever, and they Why, too, have a museum with local art to enrich the culture of the people living in I wanna or Panama, then they might spend a lot of money by this nothing making a museum for it and to them it's just a good deed. You know, there's nothing crooked about it, but when we look at stuff like Stewart, partners work for american anthropologist, We see that this is it

stinks strange financial ecosystem. First, it's notoriously opaque LEO, absolutely no way to get a full comprehensive, high level look at private sale data. Absolutely no way. Zero, zip zilch way and added to that about half of the global trade actions in the art world are thought to be composed entirely of private sales. That's the last Bartlett's, but emphasis on global there, who its huge its huge legs, that's just the early. We're stats for sure just to get into we're talking about your we mention all the auctions and everything that's often public. That's often like from de la hatred and our action. This is happening. Look at all the transactions and are occurring here would return. My private sales issues have been. I've got this Nagel, because ok I'll take it for this matrimony done some resale, that's it. It's over

Who knows how much been paid for it, but still like this is crazy. I They don't tell Paul what I'm selling it to him. No vote I gotta go. had it for a year. Yes, weird rules, and there too, but let lesson these stats, like you, said throughout last year, twenty twenty, the global, are it was valued at fifty billion dollars. Fifth, a billion dollars for art, ok and no longer time the lack of transparency that were discussing right here, fifty billion is probably not quite it be a little more little less. Who knows right, but we're gonna We will use it as our running number, at least for this conversation, but here's the deal that number five billion is actually significantly less than what was spent in the past this year, before covered in twenty nineteen, It was around sixty four billion dollars, so fourteen

million got knocked off the top when galleries and other places were closed and auctions, weren't able to be pretty the same way that they were in the previous year and people are still guessing right again, the EU pointed out how money that number is because there is zero accountability in the private, the private aspects as market. This number, this Fifty billion dollars go ahead and doktor evil. Your pinky up there with his folks is represent somewhere around thirty one point: four million known transactions, meaning thirty one point four million different individual sales of art that are known to have occurred over the course of twenty twenty who s has most skin in the game or pain in the canvas they have the highest total share. The global market, China as the highest share of fine art auction revenue. That's this stuff! That's the Stuttgart,

am I right met the money that churns when outfits like Chris You yourself, bees hold auctions for peace, Susan MO? What have you so? explain a little bit about the sheer financial depth of the market, but this also sets us up to talk about the ways in which that market might be smaller than outside. The issue here is the simple truth: will just let the quiet bad? be the loud when, in this part of the conversation yeah most people can't action. Afford to pay millions of dollars, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars for a single piece of art unless they have like a clear plan to flip it for profit, the luxury of buying a piece of art for with historic cultural, personal value and then just like hanging up in your mansion, nor or some a cottage and then, under around your yacht, that's a privilege and restricted to very, very few. People in modern society because

the way in equality works and every other industry, the community get smaller and smaller and smaller at the top, which me Is that the movers and shakers their increase, likely to personally know each other or if personally know each other their increasingly like to know another individuals position in the hierarchy, including their big sales and purchases. That's why some time we hear somebody described is like a collector, contemporary art. You know like that they bought they bought a cup war halls, but they're, not a big fish to the big fish. How much money just the set this up. Are we talking about into seventeen, the arch, now Christy Soul, Divinity Salvador Monday for four hundred and fifty point three million dollars. That's one painting it's one sale, that's a lot of money, that's more money than most people will ever see. Entirely of their lives.

It was sold to someone in the upper echelons of the saudi government or within the family the crowd close associate of the crown prince, I mean that's all you can to Howdy government and olive garden have the same James line when you're here the Hamley. Is this: what we started this hierarchy, there's a jerry you can read about from several years ago were Daniel Ratcliff, you know Harry Potter. Yes, a disguise probably got some money. Guys really well known. He was attacked. to buy some fine art, but he was refused by. I believe the person running. The gallery, as I'm we're looking for. You know someone a little more Divergences are like someone within the art world. Right here got insider new money, moneyed,

generally I arose are eating it in wooden. Rickles has gone through today, but he eventually got to purchase. The painting does the artist himself found out he was doing. Radcliffe was like a year. You can buy my painting, the gallery or the people selling. It wanted to keep it insular within that the high or world allow an and that's all like if the artists hat and have known they would have had no control over that interesting interesting. That kind of avoids the market idea that so often touted these two Ample show us some pretty fast needing stuff in the case of that, eventually, This sail was unprecedented, a blue. It blew up the previous records out of the water and emphasise something that happens in the secondary market. Artists can become incredibly profitable, once they have died, cause you know, make any new sculptures or collages or paintings the supplies,

currently limited and if demand increases for any reason, prices can skyrocket and yes to be feared or talking the dimensions of the art world were kind of talking about the equivalent of blue chip stocks, their price way above what most other art in the world would be price and, as you can urgent. Toolbar controversies, we're naming the crazy part yet with this much money with this much opacity play. There is more than enough room in the shadows of the auction. House for crimes against piracies, it would be actually It is pretty astonishing of this. Wasn't the case. Art. That's a big deal. We already talked about epic, our heist, those are just a small slice of the pie, because we don't know much about the successful highs where something gaps lost or got replaced by a forgery which, has happened in more than you think others I've in black market in stolen goods and in antiquities. This stuff affects everything from like an archaeological,

dig in the hinterland of old Sumeria to the word most prestigious museums who may not know that they are participating with The best of intentions increase. acts. So what we ve heard from cured where to listen to the show who have told us like people in world of museums have told us figuring out the provenance and artifact can can be really challenging, but people are making their best faith efforts to help make sure there like, aiding and abetting war crimes, which probably some theological anticipate when they're getting into that career the truth of the matter. Is it's a huge problem so would museums and antiquities out for sure I will direct everybody over to the atlantic dot com. To read the tomb readers of the Upper EAST side the story, and while there are many stories within that story, but one of them is about

a true pollen museum of ART in New York, in how they purchased something from Egypt. That was you know a Mummy lists coffin right. And they allegedly didn't really under fully understand the provenance of this thing, but it was found. after investigators proved that this distinguished just take. The coffin was stolen and it was me almost all gold the mummy there was inside of it, which is dumped into the river and- it was there were false documents, set up and sell it to the Metropolitan Museum of ART, but they like they didn't really check any they just want. Oh here is in antiquity from Egypt, and they just bought it because they knew the value that it had and they didn't even check out. You know how it remember who who braided a tomb essentially to get it to them in it. It's all about

For me, it's about looking away when you're the person making up just because you know the inherent value? No, you can flip something look away from the actual provenance of the thing here. If it is the actual, thing, because one of the other Bingley problems is, it is forgery. We that old, chestnut great artist, steel, while you know middle Aigner, mediocre artist, copy, there's truth to that and art themselves have spoken about their influences and different people. The art world go go pretty far Knowledge is when a certain piece of art seems derivative of some Earl your work, and this happens? in creative endeavour for music to writing. To dance imitation, That sort is both expected and openly acknowledged by most people involved, but it cry is the line win a talented but unknown artist turns to the

Darkseid and makes fate Carlos or fake, Giorgio keeps in sells them as the genuine article. This is forgery its. you'll ongoing crime and there are countless exam. Is a very successful forgery operations. You could almost me a yearly list. We like looking through this and I found year by year. I am if I won for twenty. twenty one, but I found from twenty twenty on back year by list of like the most successful forgery so definitely happens. What today's episode is not about forgery, even though its apparently conspiratorial crime, it's just the Tipp of the paintbrush for decades and decades, if not centuries, the word finally as been home to another larger conspiracy conspiracy, that is arguably an art all its own money laundering. I know when we tighten up here, will tell you, after word from our sponsor

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here to help you find out. Now you can get a taste of something different reserve. exclusive tables at some of the best places in town with annex platinum, hundreds of sought after restaurants, thousands of new dishes, one of the many reasons you're with Amex platinum, visitor I can express dot com flash with platinum terms, apply here's where it gets crazy, ok, well, the fixes it the world's most high ticket art is part of a global business. Would tons of secrecy? Andy laughably small amount of toothless regulation makes it. Great place to hide money you're trying to avoid the tax ban or forget, allowed a dirty ash need of a good scrub. This is where a pretty cool guy name neural, Ruby, economist enumerate. You professor, comes into play. What I love about

SK I met he's got a street name which not all professional economists do. His street name is doctor. Do cause. He he made a lot of very dire, incredibly accurate predictions about them. housing crisis and financial crash of the early two, thousands so long doktor. Do I wonder what he said about the housing market right now, Doom and gloom, maybe who no? I don't want to look by what he shows us is how one person the visual can purchase a really expensive piece of art work, let's say a million dollars and they can pay cash? just on over There's no need for them to register the transaction, because there, because while, in some cases, could get around it basically and theirs

virtually no tied to the financial system when a transaction like that occurs yet we'll need a lad of paperwork evolve. Did this. You know what I mean: the opaque each. The art industry also makes it a haven for tax evasion and Lou Two pieces of ardor changed all the time, but now in the way you might think, because the artwork might never physically change hands it can be stored at these things called free ports for an unlimited mound of time, in which explanation I think for some of us in the crowd who might not know what free ports are, but mainly in the movie tenant. Yes, we're going to say TAT is where I think, a lot of a lot of votes year hip to it. Don't feel bad if you haven't seen ten, I dont know if reports are because the truth of the matter is that there are a ton of people who would prefer that you know actually think about these things. So

actually, like you know, depending on where you live folks, you probably have some kind of public. Storage, business in your neck and the global. What's and did you know what it is? It's a bunch of tiny garage, likin things and when people stuff, that they don't want to throw away they don't have room for in their house her apartment day. at one of those things like by the month by the year to store their junk. Very wealthy people do that but they do it in a much more sophisticated, expensive manner. Free ports are super secure warehouses for the collect, means of millionaires and billionaires. This is just art, snatches Picasso. It could be straight up bricks of gold and can be gold its and can be vintage Ferraris, it could be crazy expensive. Why these

things are found in countries where you would expect a lot of very wealthy people to store very expensive things: Switzerland, Luxembourg, Singapore, it's very advantageous to you if you want to avoid pay, the government anything because those goods in their stored in a free port, their technically still in transit kind. It's kind of, like they told Fedex to say just tell me, it's all he's on the way TAT s why I arrived in the UK. Yet so you don't have to pay those taxes when it was being shipped from the? U S: well, it's just whatever its in transit yeah a while back the economist reported that the free port near the Geneva Airport, just on its own, is suspected they hold the equivalent of a hundred billion. U S dollars in art, so nice

the Ferraris nor the why nor the inmates of golden platinum I this stuff restored years decades, there is at a time limit. There's one Another interesting mechanism of reports we have to throw in once something is inside the free port, like one say Peter is inside the free port, Ben Bull and original. I make a lot arbiter I'll sell. It was somehow it ends up in a report that art can be sold privately and anonymously to other buyers. Never asked to leave the warehouse they're just Reading money using that thing. As sorted madly in what thereby so can yield like a year. That feels like a good way. You can't really clean any that way, but it still has a weird thing: well view

we can in some ways ruby compares this doctor. Dune comparisons to the rule that swiss banks used to play he told see it in you know therein alternative. He said maybe an alternative, is just a by an expensive piece of art and hide it in a free port in Europe. Nobody knows what it is that becomes. The equivalent of a safe deposit a bank previously in Switzerland. The other thing is no one is sure about the extent of this problem. Even the people making money off of it. Think about your nose. Origin at the dirty money. It could be drug money, it could be financed. crimes, robberies, traffic in profits, you name, it also know unsure how often happens and no one is sure how deeply gos goes. Devil weapons sales by the way, so the Heath then why team Euro Times ran a story earlier this year about a very surprising case that you can read right now. If you ve got enough free New York Times articles

moreover, China, sizeable alone get a subscription if you hurt but was able read this there's an accused drug, healer, his name was wrong: Ronald Village Piano and he was in Philadelphia and the feds rated his house. They found and you know the things that you would find us spected drug dealer if they are inverted drug dealer latin lot of marijuana found all about two point: five million dollars hidden in compartment beneath a fish take which you can see a picture of just looks like a box and add cash, stuffed in it with an aquarium on top of it. But here's the other thing they found art real heart like expensive, fine art a whole cache of it. Here they did at a stored view that not a free port, just like a regular public storage unit,

few miles away from his house. They found thirty three paintings stacked up. They also have found fourteen paintings in his home. This was from like his kids high school painting class, this system, like Brainwash Picasso Salvador, Dolly he had Seattle had used the art to launder some of his drug cash. He purchased the works from this gallery near Philadelphia. Museum row solid operation, basically until it isn't, and they I t sums it up by saying. Buyers typically have no idea where the work their purchasing is coming from. Sellers are in the dark about where work is going. None of the purchasing requires the filing and paperwork that would allow regulators to track art sales or profits its distinctly different from the way the government you, the transfer of other assets like stocks or real estate. Now we need to talk about the other thing. Think it's something. People in the audience were anticipating power.

is not always limited to money. Money is just a medium of exchange for power, its coupon system, its symbolic, the fine art market also been seen as a way to peddle political influence and the notable accusation in the west in recent years for this kind of thing, sir. turn on the administration of current. U S, President Joe Biden won't kind, on him, mainly his son S Hunter under Biden, though you likely heard a lot about over the past few years. He's a team. Something that many artists have not level of fame, a level of Excess dead. That many can only dream of he's represented by the ultra powerful George Bearers or Biagi s gallery in does in New York been yet see that's in New York,

and he has his works. His art is expected to cost anywhere from seventy five thousand dollars. two five hundred thousand dollars again Hunter Biden, son of the current president right rate and experts, not just political. Poland have raised ethical concerns here. There are arguing that people might not be paid this much just because they, like the art day, may be doing this because supporting Hunter Biden, my esteem wish a line of communication and influence with his other who is currently one of them this powerful people on the planet and in fact you I found one prominent critic. Walter Shaw, because I wanted to make sure that the ethical concerns weren't just like me, no political motivated staff, so Walter Shop was in interesting critic of this to me because back in the day he was actually the director of the Office of Government

under the Obama administration. She can you make some assumptions about his own political leanings, and he said I find it deeply troubling We ve got a family member, clearly trading on his father's name. The man is never sold. A piece Our before has never even jury in a community center art show but suddenly selling art of fantastical prices there's simply no way anybody paid seventy five grand for anything other than his name, but I'm not the kind of cold and in his defense, Hunter Biden did appear a couple of outward say he was on an occupied cast a while back where he said. You know he was surprised that he was happy he said, I wouldn't you know, be happy if it told for ten dollars so pain, was a way for him to personally find soulless, which is something a lotta painters in the crowd today can agree with but in any case you can argue with the fact that the reason is that expensive is because of who he is

I mean it's that it's that it's that value that based upon the art by the outside right, then, when you, represented by a powerful gallery, it doesn't hurt. I mean definitely has to play at least some role in the six ass here partially because and people are buying a name there. There also buying a story right when you buy when you buy our you're, also bind the story the person who made it. The story of It travelled from the someone's mind through all of these various ventures to you so yeah, it's not crime, AIDS, just ethically on sound to a lot of critics and real it's not a crime, because the legal system does it have the vocabulary to articulate this as a criminal offence, but that does make it not shady and to be fair hunter by it is currently embroiled in other controversies. The you

attorney's office, is digging into his taxes. He stated that publicly there were corruption charges raised by the former Trump Administration during the last elections Biden. She'd been restraint is, to miss a smear campaign. hunter. Byron is promptly the thing about a hunter by He doesn't need the money you I mean he's not sweating the seventy five grand. Probably he did join the board of a place. Bereavement from twenty fourteen twenty nineteen, where making estimated fifty Grand a month. So if he chose art over that is he's following his passion, rather than the actual motivation is holding with the Ukraine. There will undermine and there's lots of. Theirs there's a lot. Is a lot with the phrase all was over.

Did you know about this by giving the way that Russia's amassing troops on the border? I I wonder: what's gonna happen round the end of the year honestly, do there's so much posturing going on both sides are no need as you know, first strike thing and they definitely I don't know, and also earlier this July, Vladimir Putin published I say about how you do you It has always been part of Russia, though you later thereof the same stuff, basically, their spirits, the same place, Yes, we'll see what goes on there and maybe that's an episode for the future, but regardless what goes down with NATO, Russia, Ukraine and Crimea. Limb white revelations come out about corruption on the west and that I do we do know one thing, no matter what wars occur in the future.

The problem of money laundering is only set to continue to grow, to expand at least that's what multi Governments assume we're gonna pause for another word from our sponsors and then will return to it, poor little bit about how these institutions are idly saying: they're going to fight back So, as you know that- and I are just pie- Castors Matt is tremendously accomplish musician. I write constantly. We in the world of creative things were also based on this broadcast excited to announce that we're getting into the world of visual creations, not with you too, but with fart. That's right. Bennett proud to be sponsored by financial alternatives to real transactions or fart in addressed, the problem that I am sure many of us have encountered in our various side. Hustles. Where do I? all this drug money,

let's eve embezzled, millions from a charity and need to take it out of the oven of crime to cool off for a while. In all the usual tax havens are closed down, plus those stick in the mud taxpayer prying it all the empty condos rhythm by casinos. Sheesh casinos mean that some mob gets a kite and you get stuck with tons of paperwork, bats We recommend fart up until recently, the best way for us to move dirty money from things like regime change, trafficking, badger smuggling or stamp fraud was the by regular art we'd, send one of our agents to us. Other bees tell them. few million into something whatever really and boom call it a day, but non criminal, non fat cats in the world of law enforcement hate to see a good hustle folks are cracking down on good old fashioned drifting and it's time for all of us to get ahead of the game. That is where fart comes in instead of physically buying art, all you have to do is pull up the handy, fart app. and just enter the amount of money you need move, make up a funding,

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women is richer in far more disturbing and, with ever been told, listened a bad women, the ripper retold on the eye, hot radio, app aware of and get your podcast and we return yes, governments or pay more attention to this in recent years. For a couple of pretty compelling reasons. First, business is booming, you know earlier Matt you and I were tied behind the pandemic- made a drop in the overall market, but the big take. Items are selling for increasingly higher prices, and this means that in a single transaction, more money is moving now it's Can illegal port of entry to the land of legitimate cash known for paperwork, no need for disclosure and no way for the law to look into things too closely. Right now, at least Venza many of the traditional money laundering. Avenues have been compromised or shut down. Think about it. The pin,

papers a little while back the pandora papers, people the world, the public is waiting to a lot of these traditional ways of just move? money around real estate taxi. In all of these things, the places where both credibly, rich and the high level criminals privilege two stash all that cash they just they fallen out because people know about him at all because there is increased regulation on those things or rules, especially if you're doing it action from one country to another country. Where that you know. and he would have been stored or moved or cleansed issues not happening right now at least not to the extent that it was the air is this also means that a certain demographic of the world's most successful scoundrels. I suddenly discovering a deep appreciation for arc personally, the expensive stuff, that's Galina features all so. What is to be done?

a world where its generally acknowledged that taxes are already for the little people, won't unquote and corruption I would say widely accepted open secret. How can government Institutions hoped to fight the almost entirely invisible kind. You of gloom financial crime in the art world. Good news, that you- and I looked into this- we know that the? U S is taking a stab at it with some new proposed bills, assent these stuff, like the Bank Secretary ACT, be essay and a now in something called it Combating the financing of terrorism laws the debate is anti money laundering, whether yes anti money. Yes, thank you anti money laundering, the be a sea already requires people who with precious metals, stones and jewels, to report active he's that seem says too little he's late, think of waking

you buy diamonds and your pretty sure, someone's trying to sell your blood types. You would report that or their stall at new report that the idea here is to expand those reporting requirements to art dealers in the. U S, some, you know some shade entity is like hey. I want to sell this Two hundred million dollars annually is that wasn't a painting, stolen Well, I don't know where you from Later in my gallery right now, so the idea is inutile again gallery owners and in our buyers and collectors, are not everybody is in on this now, relating not everybody but now we have to look across the pond. We know the EU the European Union Commission had issued anti money laundering directive in twenty eighteen in June, which also expanded the coverage reg.

Patient, so they started, they start counting p. trading in the world of art as obliged entities, meaning people were had report suspicious activities, they also had reported if they were storing art in free ports. If the value of transaction or a group of linked transactions, equal ten thousand euro or more gas. That's what they want to happen. there actually taking some of this stuff into effect. You can read about it right now. Some delays, news coming out of the UK, has to do exactly what this and that number in particular ten thousand euros or more is so low compared what the other regulators and other countries are to establish the others it like with the United States and a few other european countries are setting it that minimum as like you know, asked if it

reaches this amount of money, or more than asked me reported around hundred thousand dollars you S. So this is like as the other countries are looking at transactions that are ten times the amount that the European Union wants to look at year. End, like you, said this is something that still in flux in some parts of it. We're in the early days of this kind of regulation. In other parts of them It's still kind of in the idea, phase being read a pretty great summation of? U S, laws in various law review outfits and we have to point out. Course not everybody's on board. In the view of some art dealers, the legal changes in the USA and Europe would strip vendors of they're, big selling points, the ability he'd offer anonymity to quiets, either buying or selling side, and this enemy, indeed the desire for anonymity does, despite what surveillance states would have you assume, does now

necessarily make somebody a criminal. You might just. want to sell one thing, and you might be doing it because You actually need the money and you want people to know, or you might be doing it, because it One piece of a larger collection- and you don't wanna given bombarded by other people- who want to buy other stuff in your collection I mean they privacy is. and see all its own, so those ports aren't necessarily criminals. and in the years back right back in the day. The final Margaret was often seen as a playground for the the wealthy, the inn Lynch well to do the socio lights and so on there no real drive on the part of the authorities to police. It too I lost too? It is strenuously as they were, to something like banking, they could also use and help regulating banking, but whatever only time will tell what happens. Is

act is cause for now it's a wild west. It's a gold mine baby right now with the appropriate connections. You can easily launder money through fine, are your odds are getting away with it again for right now are actually pretty good. If you get caught The least lotta cases I've seen if you get caught your probably getting caught, do too something else, you did the actual gun running actual embezzlement, the trafficking or whatever, and then the art as laundering mechanism, only gets discovered later in the investigation. Like an arrow, you were here, they were, they busted the drug dealer in their life, while this guy's great aced. If he s surprise, when you open the stuff, June and You'Re- oh, my this thirty three paintings in here that are all worth. You know, thousands, if not millions of dollars. Why did this happen with lake grim?

OZ, book, severe cold, obscure reference works or comic books, early cleaning up, try it my storage unit needed just fine, all my son's clothes off, because creepy. If I didn't know you, what do I do with a mere there's sentimental value? You know right and kids grow so fast What's that, what's the shortest amount of time that a pair of shoes fit, they get the the latest. Minecraft choose our beginning of the school you're so August, this past August and completely algorithm, now wow, as last year s pretty fast Well, as you know, I am a big fan of your kid. I just mean ways I think he almost beat me at Schiphol will I just got enjoy my brief time in the side anyway, children's shoes aside, things you find in public storage,

spaces can always be weird and that's why sometimes they get rob. But what we're talking about now, money laundering problem is all just the traditional old school hustle. We have to admit that the rise of new art things like non fungible tokens enough tease, and also produce opportunities for money laundering in theory, and only time will tell what happens with all those nifty new technological toys, especially You bring in a group. Do the crypto techniques re talking about money laundering like it's a whole new world, their yeah yeah? Until people figure out, who Knocker motorways We're like we don't we don't know Furthermore, cynical folks in the crowd, I would say myself included candidly, there's all the issue of corruption in the halls of power, a lot of people per day. two painting in these conspiracies

also have influence in the world of business. In politics we are talking big fish capital, be capital, F, a can be plausibly difficult or even at times, dangerous, for your regular authorities to make a fuss, it might even hurt reelection chances for some politicians. Specially knows that d and heavily on private campaign donations, which can come from those capital, be capital? F, big fish. There other money too, hide away in art the extent that some of these players do than you can imagine that a campaign donation is in out of the question, especially if it's benefit you personally and somewhere here an hour. as an avenue for money laundering, really money laundering itself as as a kind of art form. These are things that immediately impact the average person, so there's no

tunnel on the ground momentum to change this dirty status quo. In fact image. three the stories about this in the media. China take this wealthy folks are bad angle, which is, I earnestly misleading. There is scant adds, get it Georgina's affluent folks who lived did Emily just dig ardor certain artists, it's either for their own personal enjoyment. Maybe it's a social flax to talk about it, the next fundraiser and, of course there are people who rightly see this is a genuine if at times, wobbly investment at bitten as we have closed the show. I have to ask you with this regulation. I knew that we, both upon this. Do you think it'll empty? Do you think it will make a difference? Will I think by today, example we gave of the foreign and fifty something million dollars that was spent on one painting, and that was done in an auction as somewhat above board auction right that

kind of transaction. I think it will be easy to enact regulations on when it comes down to the private buying the we lined up at the top. I think it's going to be extremely hard for any regulator in any country to get a firm grasp on those transactions. Right, because so many are pre existing. You know what I mean in and see how you list those as assets right? Look where, where do enter the legal system right. there's an app there, or at least one that's developed right now. That's it to what is it our pass? I think somewhere pass idea. It's supposed to allow buyers and sellers of fine arts like have their identity, information to like it over when you're making a transaction. Basically. But who knows if it's gonna work? Well we're not a group of Dutch Tech,

from nursery creating at you can read about that in the art newspaper, but there's that kind of thing we're like it is trying to come in to offer a solution like yeah. dirty. Money is a problem in the art seen maybe there's a way for us to exchange identity information. Without having to get into regulation, and it's more like I don't know you do it on the level of the transaction icy? Kindly where that were our regulate ourselves, to avoid overreach from institutions yeah yeah, all the best to bite you you can easily see folks why so many people would be cynical about this changing I just because of the content some interest involved, because the amount of money involved and because of the potential for nepotism involved, one because of the layers right there layers of shell companies that often make these actual transactions and representatives of representatives of the group that is actually working for the benefit?

after who's gonna own that are agreed So now, fellow conspiracy, real, if we pass the auction gavel, do you think what do you think do you have any personal experience with the world of fire? art are you and artists to has seen some shady stuff go down and galleries. Are you yourself a cure? reader who has been trying to keep people honest, though you wouldn't do You find yourself with in this or outside of this, do find yourself also assuming a cynical perspective here and if so, why we would, as always, love to hear your thoughts and will try to be easy to find online even look at us on Twitter, Facebook and Youtube where we conspiracy stuff, Graham we're conspiracy. Stuff show please, if you like

this episode, Hanover to Apple, podcast or reverie, listen to the show and give us a review. We appreciate it. If it was, I dunno five stars or more, but you know we get it. We'd love to just get your feedback. We wonderful! Thank you. Please do that if you don't like social media, there other ways to contact us yeah. Let's say you have a message for Matt or Docker Mission Control or the one, and only MR no Brown or me, you can call us directly on the telephone. It's the hottest new thing. All you have to do is dial. One eight three, three std w whitey K, you'll get a message laying you know, you're in the right place. She had three minutes. Those three minutes are yours: do with them what you will we ask that you give yourself a cool, nickname or moniker, as it always makes our data hear them, and let us know we can use your name and or message on the air most. Importantly, don't feel like you have to censor yourself. If you have a story,

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