Here's the thing: saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up: basketball, is always that guy who joins your game He never passes the rock he certainly bricks theories and completely hack you and then put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico It's easy to switch and save on car insurance, no need to fake an angel sprain because you're absolutely exhausted we can save with Geiger. It's almost better than sport. I got everything, and I'm so excited turn out that for these season, finale of my pod Catholic, Ruth and J, we have NBA I'll start and mental Health Advocate Kevin Love, grubbing robs us of war, human potential them better, it's so it's like that. The pandemic that nobody is talking about. We talk about cabins journey anxiety, passion and, of course, the amazing NBA career. Listen,

We have a semi J on the eye, her review, an apple podcast or wherever you gave your pocket from you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know hello. Welcome back to the show. My name is man, my name is no. They call me dead. We joined with our super producer, Paul Deck and, most importantly, you or you- and you are here- and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know a very special episode of ours shoe today, because are delving into something that is all fascinated eyes, I think, as individuals and as a group. It is these

strange intersection of ethics and experts, mutations giants right. Science, verses the humanity of both the the experiment, hers and the experiment tease, but we not alone in this endeavour. Today we are joined with a friend of the show, a filmmaker Brett would who just recently created how stuff works. First fiction, podcast The control group bread, thank you so much for coming on the show with us today. Brentwood is excited to be here, and you are indeed right away. I well, we haven't fully firms, I've seen any identification. Did you guys get identifying? I shouted at the front desk. They will. We have a new policy locate. These cool is even looks a lot like bright. Would he at least signed his name Brentwood when you get in here, which is about the level of our security, and you really throwing our security under the bed so bread?

we were. We were extremely excited about the control group, as we were learning more about the show and more about the. Real life things events born places that inspired the the narrative of the control group and from law I understand this originally was a screenplays. I correct write about six years ago. I wanted to make it as a film and quickly realized that it was sort of beyond my means as an independent filmmaker to have this law. Hospital facility and a fair number of of extra, as patients in the hospital and also as we make it into a little bit later on. I ran into some problems with the locations where I wanted to shoot. So I've been moved over to a different project, which is mostly set and house, which was much more.

Manageable. For me is that one called those who deserve to die. That's coming next that when I just finished they have not yet shown anywhere out we're just finishing it sound and music. The unwanted is the one we did instead of the control group I end for anyone unfamiliar with the work. You are quite a prolific creator made the unwanted twenty fourteen psychopaths sexuality in two thousand six again, your memory, that we lean dying? Afraid highly in another show called car stuff skull highway. The true story of highway safety, films and two thousand three, which I care recommend enough. If you want something with a disturbing to us, are upsetting. Oh yes, I remember the cars have ever so. There was back in my hey days super producer, that's true that true we go. We all go way back in this regard, So I like like where your work taken you thus far in kind of where its headed. Can you tell us exactly what the control

is, what it's about sure it's a sort of a narrative annexation of a couple. Fred threads that were going on any sort of psychological medicine and covert government, activities in the nineteen fifties and Sixtys, one of which is the government's drug testing programmes, better known as income ultra, of course, Artichoke bird. There are lots of names for what they were doing, which is basically secretly casting drunk on people, preferably unsuspecting people and trying to determine if these could be useful, who for either mind control or interrogation and then the other thread of it is the see. I sponsorship of experimental psychological testing without any apparent connection to the covert irrigation arm of what

we're doing so they would get. These are set up a one organization to fund colleges, hospitals, doctors to just experiments that my kind of fit in with the kind of stuff they are interested in namely things like erasing someone's memory getting them to unlock the sick which they may be protecting consort. Anything that might be applicable there. They were kind of open to and alone the doctors who did the research didn't know they were sort of doing it the sponsorship of the CIA this aid called it a cut out, which I love that as ever front. We have, we have several cut out. We can hide this behind and we're gonna hide this the cut out known as this society

for the investigation of Human ecology. I love. What is that he's glean its sights? Is such an important sounding like who doesn't believe in that's real human ecology, tat what they called him yet has and well I guess it begin announced here for the first time that pretty soon we are going to make available society for the investigation of Human ecology, tee shirts at Control Group merchandise shop. So just stand by for more details on that, but I just love the idea of this Non profit organization handing out money too ambitious researchers and there's a bit of Gaddafi to right. It's like, we believe in your work, sounds colleague, illumination global unlimited occur.

It's funny- and this is why I feel so at home. Here you know within the house networks. Family is because, like with the drivers, a documentary- and I know that in gay order, has been a subject on stuff it. I want you to know and other shows, because you know your audience are relishes these secret histories of Nano. The underbelly of what's going on in our society in government, but just like being in the know of things, They were not in your high school textbooks well said so: let's do into your wrist search processes. You were gathering material and documentation for the script itself and for the story what kind of stuff did you find? Where did you look mostly will the interesting is? There's not much first generation information about this stuff. The whole thing would have been a secret and forgotten where

for the survival of I think seven boxes of financial records receipts and from those documents that people are able to piece together. This history, but there are a number of great books on the subject. As far as the CIA testing there is this for the manchurian candidate by John Marks and as far as the medical research there is war, person in particular, who I was this kind of the the official inspiration for our main doc, in the control group and the real life doctors name is you and Cameron, and he was a doctor in Quebec, he was the head of the American Psychiatric Association. You couldn't be more highly regarded, but yet he was conducting these today. When I consider ethically questionable experiments in manipulation of the mind, which I can't wait for us to start talking about the details of the euro,

The thing is: when you read about all this stuff, it doesn't seem possible, it's it's outrageous, its fascinating, but you can really imagine it actually happening, and so what I want to do with the control group is sort of imagine what would it be like to actually be subjected to? Some other way psychic driving, which is where Doktor Cameron would he would offer recorded himself. He would look a tape which would play in a constant loop. You, not being kind to others. You need to open up and be more open with your emotions. You need to sort of a mantra or add enforcement of the kind of behaviour the person should have, and so that tape would play constantly constantly. Constantly days at a time for days at a time and in headphone and sometimes they would have it like a helmet words wired so pressing it get up and walk around

and they even had speakers built in mattresses so that, when someone's asleep you will he kind to other. You will be more responsive to treatment this event psychic driving? Okay, so that psyche driver was it done on patients. In like a psychiatric word or where, who is this done to you? It wasn't that's the thing don't just like regular people There is a tendency to do a lot of this. More on women and we address that that's a big part of what the control group is so That, I think, is the ego of the doktor who, if he's gonna, shape and scope a patient, pygmalion style he's hence to want to do that more with a woman than a man, but having also it feeds a lot into the fact that so logical issues are, traditionally sort of been tilted too

words. Women, like the best examples hysteria That is something that, if you'd take it by it, original technical definition has to do. You know with the reproductive organs of a woman that was this source from which the psychological problem emanated where we think a lot about housewives in the fifties being prescribed tranquilizers and for the men they would just have an extra martini at lunch. That was their way of dealing with it. So there has often been this focus on site. Logical problems on women and down, and so that sort became an important point of the control group, as well as an avenue of control. I think, given the massage any, though, is institutionalized and still exist today it seems- again in in many cases, with the benefit of retrospect. We are able as a society, to look back and say well,

the person. Was it mentally ill? They just didn't wanna be forced to marry that jerk young nokia- and this, I think, that's, I think, that's a powerful thing, but the the idea psychic driving too. I don't want to lose that at first. You first hear it it's easy to think I'm unfamiliar with that I've had a song stuck in my head before how bad can it be? You know it any worse than desperado or something, but I there. There is some other techniques that doctor Cameron was using? Could you tell us a little bit about those may be starting with the sleep treatments so as part? of the psychic driving You would need to have your minds or neutralised before the fresh messages. These reinforcements are being allowed in your mind. They need to the slate clean, and so they did that a copper different ways, but the leaning process was called de pattering, and that means

the mines. It no longer has a regular pattern of thought. It's open and neutral and even peoples a bill had memory loss, long term memory loss, they could remember what was happening to them now, but couldn't think back into the, pass. That was the whole point, wipe the slate clean so that we can reach the psychic driving. So the one way they would the one way they would do. That is easy t electro compulsive be better known today, as shock treatment and doubled up with sleep therapy where they would tranquilize someone and have them sleep around the clock and sleep is great and, to a certain degree, shock therapy even now is considered of of use when correctly applied, but what they would do is give people shock treatment multiple times in a single day according to one source six times the voice, did your dosage at which

it is normally given that wasn't just like. Now you're here Neild mental Tulip, it was an attempt to really flattened the brain waves of the mine by excessively delivering shock treatment and then rests the body in mind would just shut down and use woken up FED. More easy tee and which put you back to sleep, and then they would continue the drip or the pills. I think some one in a barber tall is more commonly given as pills, so that was, I guess, how they would keep you in that deep sleep, well in how how effectively this at least the de pattering aspect other I guess it. People did After this all came out, a number of patients got together and you in Cameroon claiming that they had no here

their memories and in our cross, these the barriers, so it certainly didn't, seem to have the the curative effect that he was proclaiming. It was gonna. Have it didn't completely mess up people's minds. The way say in Trans Orbital lobata me. Might So the effect it was never proven to be especially effective, either as a sort of a treatment, Ford, general, psychological, difficulties and it certainly was never applied to the kind of use see I thought it might be viable for two will never know if it was an effective way of integrity. Brainwashing someone and it doesn't seem to them. Specially effective way of curing someone's mental ills. And will learn more about that right after a quick word from our sponsor

this episode of stuff. They don't want. You to know is brought to you by native, hey you guys, I am sitting here looking at my wife's native deodorant that she loves it. Is Africa and white peach. She uses this thing every day, she's tried a ton of different deodorants, and this is the only one that she says works for her aluminum free, it's baking soda free and it doesn't irritate her arms and it smells great because deodorants with aluminum can actually form like these plugs that clog up. Your swift glance to keep you from sweating at doesn't seem natural or or healthy, so natives deodorants are made without any aluminum sea can feel better about what you're putting on your body. Not only does it work, but it also works in style. You dont have to choose just one sent their over ten different sense. They have classic sense. They have rotating seasonal, you're, you're daring,

defined one. You love whether its cocoanut, vanilla lavender arose cucumber amid the list goes on and on there's something for everyone. Yes, literally every one for men for women, even teens Iccat specialised teens products and you can get free shipping on every order and native offers thirty day free returns and exchanges within the United States. Sab I'll give it a try for twenty percent off your first order. You can visit native deodorant dot com and use the promo code. Conspiracy at check out. That's native deodorant dot com use. The promo code. Conspiracy during check out

it seems like it should be easy, but it's not just getting out of bed and getting your day started. Trying to accomplish everything you need to do in your day that to do list as a lot easier when you're getting news stories and music to lift your mood and preparing for the day ahead, get connected to the things that make you laugh and make you think or make you want to reach out and share with a friend every morning with us. It's Elvis Doran in the morning show listen to us on cue, one or two or anywhere in the world on the iron radio, app We. There is one thing that perhaps didn't exactly come out of this, but was utilised then the M K ultra trials and specifically within the world of the control group, which is confinement, the give it away too much. But the cages because that's something that we do see used in what we would

just consider modern interrogation techniques, isolating someone now it not allowing them to sleep for long periods of time, and we Some of that in the story is well yeah them well. Talk about the cages in the in the podcast It's a little bit of a fictional innovation just in terms of but it, but it's true. The spirit of what was going on and we had a lot sensory deprivation where some will be kept in the dark with something over their eyes and something over the ear. So they can't hear and sometimes with their hands, sorted into something, so they can't feel as it is sort of like a version of the sleep therapies, so Tis tests see how long a person could exist in that state before their mind, gets weakened in becomes open to annul better programming. I guess and in the podcast the characters talk about how

back in the day when the section this ward was called the cages, people would just be left to wander and sit in their own filth, That's very well documented from like back in the if there is an forties word, you would have wards of people naked sitting in their own filth and being given no treatment per se, a condition that existed. I think there is a lot of men but a reform in the nineteen fifty. So it's mostly cleaned out at that time that You don't say you have this this dichotomy, my excessive treatment and then no treatment it's just a matter of pumps him drunk in someone neutralize the symptoms and ultimately that's what all this kind of was about. If we talk a lot Some of other medical visionaries who have done some pretty crazy things. Every history usually

justification for what they did was it it eliminated the symptoms, but it didn't actually cure the disease. My favorite and I thought about trying to dramatize this guy's work. Somehow. Was a guy named Henry Cotton the nineteen twenties. He had a big theory that mental illness and health problems was work triggered by. What kinds of infection, and so I bacterial infection that yet again and chronic dental infection was one of the big ones. Could you know they didn't have great dental care back in the nineteen twenties? No Florida. In the water and so he would pour teeth and remove tonsils and he He had two sons and complete report are their teeth. I dont teeth. Awhile Gay people Don T like the colon in own lots, tearing the coal and he would remove people's Collins. He would remove.

Portions of her stomach. He would remove this gleans, so all about taking anything that was possible source of infection and You'd be amazed at how hi highly regarded this guy was and how high up the professional ladder he was able to climb. He became the superintendent of the Trenton State Hospital in New Jersey in New Jersey. And eventually people kind of realise. Aha, were his numbers look good on paper, but he's doing is removed. A car central cause he's getting rid of symptoms, but he's not actually treating the illness and usually in cases like that, what happens is We don't do that anymore and we don't talk about that anymore, and so, LE bodies are not a great example in the bodies were considered so effective because they wiped out symptoms the same

do the bad stuff anymore yeah and you don't get rid of their part of their brain. That makes them act like a human impact. Where is the fact that you ve you? quickly change them. To not be would do that anymore and in the case of something like shock therapy, they change their behaviour because they dont want more shock therapy, gorse you're still not treating the cause but you're causing. The symptom to go away either medically or through the fear Jordan them by less like that idea that torture is and particularly effective, in getting good confession effective at getting. What you

to hear or you'll get some kind of confessed, some amazing stories you torture. Someone enough, though, tell you everything anything this guy you're talking about reminds me of like sort of like a sick twisted John Harvey Kellogg Type, almost where he's like involves like holistic staff, but he's treating the symptoms more than he is the actual illness in our enemies. For everything like yogurt animals and other stuff, colleagues are great, I guess he's like the light or so yeah right receive an a visionary, and it's all about a good goods cola that got more here tonight and we're gonna have fun with him. But then, when you get into some one as a low, more barbaric in their treatments bet with its the same is two sides of the same coin: this sort of visionary, medicine. That is not that grounded in the science of the illnesses

one is the guy you're talking about, sounds like he kind of developed a bit of a God complex around the two when you're unchecked, and you can do the stuff. You have this vision, you now but on stopping you, then, of course it in a push it as far as you can write. Yet no one starving you and like in the case of you in Cameroon, you're being made the head the American Psychiatric Association. That's like total validation. I go. It further and so well back The control of one of the things I want to do is what would These conversations be like with the society for the investigation, human ecology, whether coaxing him along and like. Maybe you should try, pushing the envelope a little bit and because I wanted to because the doctors who are doing these things are not monsters there. Vicious and I think they all have good intentions, even if they have egos kind of running rampant, and It doesn't take a whole lot of encouragement to get someone to maybe cross the threshold into something a little less.

Ethical than they might if they were not. Being fuelled by so much encouragement. And I think that's a really good point, because in the real world. We see these words of situations coalescing and degrees of increments. It's not as if some shady purse, from what was ever his breath cut out comes to you, one of your cut outside the EU and says: let's see how much lsd we can pump into someone before. We ruin their lives again, I just get like ten people just take us the wall. You know that that's something that we ease into as people and it's very easy to rationalize those further steps, especially- and I think this is this even goes to the deck Ray victimization- that some of the medical professionals experience which has much lower than the patient's. Obviously, but there there be

convinced that we must make certain sacrifices for the quorum quote: greater good and We actually have a clip from the can all group that It touches on this right met. Oh yeah. This is this is great news from episode for The name is Fino Barbara Tall and discussion between a character named Summer Hill and after haze in their discussing funding worthy. I guess the research is being done at the hospital as well as what types of things need to be done in order to continue that funding of the research. Get us a mare, Starbucks, it'll, be a good measure of your progress, but if you that little longer do the detective work connect the dots, I'll, try but

help wondering whether or not we should be stopped thinking about Should should is a dirty word in research. Take yourself off the least allow yourself to run. You haven't follow, got an age scratched and urge endangered and don't stop to ask whether it's something you should doing it. To give you a better understanding. That's all that matters. I love in detest the so much because it feels to real to me having person from the outside group trolls the money. That's good, gonna fond the research come in and say: well, you know, don't you want to do something. That's going to be different and beyond me. I knew your fifty, but you really think like a twenty six year old and push things harder, but he never once says the thing about you.

This is exactly what we need to do or anything like that So he's got this weird plausible deniability, with with him in his cut out a book. The same time he's convincing this doctor to push himself ethically to the to the boundary and perhaps be and it makes me wonder just how much of that is actually what occurred bring the MP alter trials, how much they were just pushing people without the CIA actually being the ones who are he's dastardly who come up The dastardly ideas that we then think of as being perhaps evil. If you look back with hindsight, I just we wonder if they or their literally just the push just getting the scientists to keep going that action. My wrath and giving them the resources to keep going given in encouraging stroking the ie go a little bit and then after member in the nineteen fifties, a couple of big things,

happening at a time in the biggest one is the cold war, and even though didn't specifically talk about the applications of to see I activities, there were this sort of attitude that certainly within the CIA that were behind in the race with the Russians and the Chinese and the Koreans for mine control, because believed brainwashing was a real thing and, to some degree it is better, not Everyone believed that it was going to be the thing that was going to be you're, going to be the transmit something to change the way people think or put something in the water supply. At one point, they wanted to put LS in an entire cities, water supply to see what would happen or like have some kind of drug or tool, and it is, the Americans we are. We love gadgets Perkins always wanted some kind of joy, his body and type thing, whether it's a drug

two or a shot. Yeah you give some one, rather than the more effective mean of mine control, which is to have a conversation with someone earn their trust. Let them talk, and in our share your ideas and eventually give him to come round to your way of thinking. That is the most effective means mind control, but we do have time that we weren't, you know we want the magic bullet. We want the the spy device. So it was almost like a sense of espionage to what was going on at the time that there is. There is a race to find either secret of brainwashing on the part of the CIA or with medical science, there's always like a race to either find a cure. Or find the best treatment or be the person to break through the next threshold of psychological, medicine and Laos. There's this attitude of yeah. Well, you know, Some ethical issues with this, but if we succeed, is for the greater good so

we're gonna go ahead and do the do the experiment and anger that person today. There's always this sort of suggestion that if you break a few eggs, that's fine, That is in favour of the millions of lives it's going to save. If these tests subjects die for the sake of science, there's so many ways, you can justify doing something and ethical. So many You can talk yourself into believing that, actually doing it for the greater good, the greater is one of the things it is always such a When you hear that phrase, you have to be very suspicious of it, because when someone trucks it out via someone's gotta get hurt boats, a power move right. It's like I can tell you with the greater good is because I have the master plan. I see the big picture and you need to get on Board Yeah our super produce report uses the phrase. The greater good law ripping us body I'll buy is it globally devils advocate for a moment.

Isn't there a greater good overall for humanity in some way- and this is just mean Devils- advocating- has called gods plan odious but I'll be completely seriously their arm. Maybe things that humanity is going to face in our not too distant future choices, organ after make sure of their who you really hard and are probably gonna end up, killing lots and lots of people cabinet in the problem that it's like the people in power, whether its in like a and organization like a psychiatric hospital or a government that are usually the ones they dictate the agenda of one that greater good is and their typically looking out for they are essential for the best interest of their cronies in some way, not necessarily the greater greater good. It's more like this notion of I it's my greater good. As I see it made a cynical but you're right on it, a kind of situations, very easy to define the greater good as the things that are that make things that are good, for a greater,

I have been is the status quo in many ways for yet and also their differing deafening. Inside me, I was being all declared that there are differing deafening for some people, a spiritual, greater good. A world in which one hundred per cent of all living people follow the same specific religion. If we're looking at purely solace. A logical imperative. Then the green Good is one in which no individuals matter the human species. Just metastasize is eventually gets to the stars. Neither of those are particularly great things for individuals. Right will me tell you about my greater good nourishing soup, so we can see that motivation and I think Brett you were of warning are astute and sorely needed, both in due course age in past ages

we don't want to lose some of the conversation you're having about other mad scientist, zoom cave. We call the mad scientist that he set out, abounds cause they're, not necessarily insane right there, just mad with power MIA you're, not that they are not always angry either, and I need a better term. Ok, I'll silver, termed scientist, every girl, Polaroid, ok, so these these perturbed scientists You tell us a little more, It sounds like you may have found a rogues gallery, a fact that you considered investigating further well, you know We talked about Henry Cotton and water. Freeman is the person who is really behind the Nevada me, and I don't know that we need to add too much to his legacy. Morton Charcoal. Nineteenth century scientist in his big thing was hysteria and the plus side, he was one of the first to say. Hysteria is not just a

female malady men can have symptoms of his. Area as well, and then he kind of got show business. Bug not literally, but he would have these demonstrations and envy people enter the surgical, theater and patients come out and perform for this, instead of medical dignitaries and women, happen is women who suffered from this particular brand of hysteria would have seizures and contortions and their bodies would twist into a very strange positions. And then sometimes have something serve cod erotic, ecstasy, and, with these became her popular among the intelligentsia in the medical community and there's even one woman named Blanche? Whitman came known as the queen of hysterics, because when she perform. She could always be relied upon to

the convulsions at the right time and really exhibit her erotic? Ecstasy and away That was dramatic soap. Certain point: what are we? What are we proving in studying anymore, but its and again It's it's women who were the ones put on it? and there's a very famous painting of sharks, holding shocking Whitman in front same it. Audience of men in this surgical environment. But. Careful with the mad scientist thing, because I I have a favorite doctor who buy a lot of standards would be considered a mad doctor, but actually was a brilliant surgeon and can maybe did an awful lot to our understanding of anatomy and John Hunter, who was eighteenth century resurrectionist He was the first you really championed. Anatomize embodies cutting open

is to understand them that way. This is when there is still a big taboo on it, and you would only get a body if, someone was hanged or executed this. Could have their bodies and became a big trade. And then eventually, they started robbing graves to get the bodies so that this would have any something to practice on and when first was reading about him in a book really sensational book about, like the corpse robbers and the gray robbers eighteenth century I read a really amazing biography of this guy and it totally showed that he was breaking down these. These sort of notions. We have that you can't cut open it, in body, and that its degrading to have your body, you know of violated,

and that's where they would collar. I M an internet was like it. When people be executed there, it would be a very frightening thing for them to realise it, thereby he's gonna be given to the school for the young surgeons to practice on, but he totally believed in it and anatomize, so many bodies over his lifetime and really broke that barrier and help the seller. Getting to the point where bodies were provided too because school, so that you can learn from the thing Yeah you're, going to actually be operating on to tell you this anecdote, which you may want to cut out for sensitive listeners, or we should just given or trigger warning, go right, you met her, one of my favor stories of him in its shocking, but at the same time it shows this guy John Hunter was solely done what he was doing You didn't have no way of testing certain things, and so he wanted to find out, like certain liquids in the body, how they

aged after death, and so one of the great big quoted this book, where he the semen of a corpse put it in his mouth and like, on his wasted around upsurge areas like the it has a metallic brackish taste, and do you know How are you gonna like tests things like that, but that just shows to him the body it was not it absorbing be been demystify for him. He just wanted to learn about the flesh and all of its this glory exact and was willing to do everything to better understand it, so On one hand we have our scientists are doing shocking thing but at the same time, a lot of times not always it yields knowledge, and it leads to de mystification and end the loss. Certain taboo.

Who's that we have about the body hold on a second guys: let's not go there quite yet. First, let's take a quick sponsor break

world yours. The ball park as the new cars with a fresh perspective pop culture bail, you not just considered in a building in one city. Talk about this there. All eighty every owner is seventy own away out creep in all social media. Ok, she carries out a little quality or whatever they may gripe announced by any measure. Does I'll see to the millionth right. Algerians explained sitting handrail summer right out like like Yahoo or Google are alive. My man is in jail and I started the like someone else. I know it's not right, but I really can't take when I feel what should I do even cobble stones with your very near the key word is: makes a huge out on our brand new back the plan itself of animal now on the radio have on Apple pie, gas or whatever you get your plaid cast. Our moroccan

and I went invite you to listen to a new podcast from the Dodo and animal saved. My life the Dodo is the most watch animal storyteller on social and now it's bringing those stories to life in audio. Since I was I've helped rescue some of the most vulnerable animals now, we're gonna hear about animals who have gone above and beyond to return the favor to the people they love on. This point asked will hear about animals who have pulled people away from immediate danger or from the throne diction one of my favorite Episodes is about a mandate Pga and his dog clue when they met. They were both being from trauma where they each other. They also found the strength to face anything. I had a sphere of leaving the house and showing myself the real world, and here we are sending on this mountain just celebrating life here about a dog whose untrained knows detects her moms cancer. Sooner than a machine can and a people who put herself in between her mom and an oncoming train, listen

an animal save my life on Iheart, radio, app on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast something we discuss on the show the numerous times. What do you do with research that gained from pure Experimentation over the years, Unit, seven thirty one or some of the things that the Nazi Party was doing. What do you do with them? because there is theirs Information Raw data that is collected there about that. Mobile things, a human endure and. We cannot have a discussion last, I'm like do you just throw that away you keep it locked away somewhere, do actually use it towards medical research. In the future, what do you think what should we do with all this stuff anyway?

The deed is done. You certainly have to try to gain from the knowledge it provided as long as you're, not encouraging forever in an ethical expert station that do you feel like Earth things still going on how I wanted to try to suggest this with a control group that we look back on the horrors of mid nineteen fifties and people in MID nineteen. Fifty look back on the horror of the turn of the century and so and so on, and so on. Do you sort of feel like. What's the horror that we were going to look at us simply years from now and sort of realized they did what absolutely and wooden, it's fantastic did you bring this up well, tragic and disturbing, but also fantastic, because that's one of the questions that we had for you, sort of the two poor question I saw them. Is what Do you see as the the employer? sir, the the.

The crucial relevance of work like the control group in them. Modern age, and that's. That's a big question is whether one but then the same in part is exactly what you are asking us. Do you think it is possible that there is experimentation occurring today that will later be looked at with opprobrium by future historians I was true, We are trying to make a list and was thinking you where the big disadvantages is that a lot of that stuff? If it is occurring, we'll be classify right xo, We only found out about things like site driving? Whereas you said seven boxes escaped a perch yeah. You know What do we know now? We know that there are some pretty fast three violating experiments with big data right. That might be thing by as far as suppressed medical, experimental

and I dont know what can conjecture it. I was thinking about this and again, I think it's It is part of a double edged sword of while we judge the past. We shouldn't judge the past too harshly, because a lot of times. This was the best they had, and so they were dared since airline desperately trying to deal with certain. This is and we may not agree with the way they treated it, but they desperate and there were no other ways. Really treating it, and it's kind of you know I've. I've sort of fuel horrible bringing it up, but when you think about something like chemotherapy, it's it's all right now it's it's! It is the thing that is or one of them things. It is the most effective entreating cancer. Fifty years from now, when we look, if someone looks back they're going you did what you you know you pretty

you active material in someone's bodies so that the body would kind of a fight and killed some portion of something that growing inside it, but it will it. It was what we were able to do. The technology we have, so I'm not by that saying that chemotherapy is bad. Radiation therapy is bad, but you know don't. Judge hoping we won't be judged harshly because its it is the best we're doing the best we can and we have to cut some slack to the people who were you know it's hard to say: cut slack to people who are performing the bodies and excessive shock treatment these in the past, I don't think it was malicious and it was the best had entreating these things and fortune? Things have gotten a lot better, so the treatments we're using Today we know are more effective and more focused and their specific, but same time take

he's gonna reach a point where they have genetic modification in these diseases just disappear and organ it look can say what. Why didn't you do that we're to be the people who were you know pudding. When iron lungs, basically we didn't, have the cure. This was what we So you know a certain amount of tolerance for the court and quote mad scientist the past is is called for, I think. Well, yeah really answers the question that you brought up to monitor. What do we do with this research and Sometimes them means justify not justify the ends, but at least you can accept the results as like something of value, even in retrospect. I don't know, I think, hard hard. How do we make it? Not a total loss? Railings egg, almost till I honour the

people that were subjected to the staff- it's like you don't, but do just out of like pure ethical and of panicky outcry toss, positive results from these experiments. That seems counter productive and and almost disrespectful to those who may have lost their lives or been damaged in these of experiments. I'm gonna be a little. They conspiratorial this, and this is just my opinion I would absolutely be unsurprising if it turned out that there were on earth and indeed illegal experiments being conducted through some tenuous tenuous attached for government funding, because one is really interesting about who, in Cameroon that we missed, I believe, we mentioned it, but I don't think we emphasised enough. He was from Quebec These experiments that he was conducting occurred in Canada. So in this case, he's the CIA and the various cutouts were not

funding experimentation. Domestically, it happened. A broad. So if something like this is happening, our current world, it is probably happening somewhere where law enforcement, a rule of law, is a little more lax little weaker, but I feel like just with all the medical, through that are occurring around the cusp of recurring. It is less plausible that's something like that is not happening, which I know sounds like maybe, we'll tinfoil on this now because it is theirs sort of a suggestion of that ends. Reading accounts of its yeah CIA activities, there's a thing which comes out when we talk about it in episode, ten called terms studies- and that's where you conducted experiment on some one to the point of no return, and There is no evidence that any terminal studies were performed in the United States, but

one source sort of says well, but some studies were performed in other countries, on people who are not Americans like prisoners of And we don't know what happened there and so there's, I wouldn't say a good chance. Would you say that it's entirely plausible that terminal studies were perfect. On in and again this is like the korean war. This is war. We were losing her where we, behind in the race for the control of the human mind in a for in a desperate measures, I would just say, with the number of destabilized nations right now across the globe. It I wonder, if there isn't sometime this conspiratorial, but some kind of smaller operation that still studying interrogation techniques out there in black sites. Sure I mean they're, just so so many places where it could be happening. Where there is a

a small CIA footprint yeah. Well, No, we did get to the present day very scary, where we hope that you you got consider this show a form of mind control benefits. It's just hit me when you are describing this bread. You said you said you the real form, a brainwashing in mind, controlling this is hanging on talking with people yeah and getting them over on your side. It hit me, I thought. Oh no, have we accidentally become bread. Breast Brett has bread has a very disarming smile, a little nervous we do what we do want to. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today and teach us a little bit more about the real world inspirations behind they control Group which, when you check out the show.

Does sound like there's no way, I could have really happened. Presented in a very plausible escalation, because it did happen. We have and just to make sure Ronald Grant, is that Frank Orson it! So this frank, Orson, except Frank: Orson did not die under the same circumstances in which there are a number of parallels between the control group. And the real life counterparts of your real fan. You know that more and how is the Alias of George White who's, the notorious former Bureau of Narcotics agent, who is in charge of the safe houses where operation a climax and other things, went on so there's there's lots of Easter eggs for people who are fans, This kind of information when we left a lot of things unsaid, William literally one particular oil, exactly just wanna put that other, don't spoil it there.

This is an interesting thing. You could do right now. I'm gonna do this after we conclude that show how many can listen to the Uk Ultra episode that we did then I'm going to go and finish episode. Six possess the one I'm currently on the controller, I'm gonna see where all those parallels arc as its I can see it already up into this point, but episode, nine is midnight climax oil. The elderly person about one, and thank you of course, folks for tuning We would love to hear your stories accounts and this might be opening a little bit of a risky door. But if you knowledge of what you consider to be unethical or illegal human experimentation occurring in Lahti day or if you know, of something that did And it has not yet reached the public sphere for one reason or another contact us. We would like to hear from you you can write to us on social media. Get the Facebook get the instagram. We are conspiracy, stuff show on Instagram

spears, stuff on Facebook and twitter. Maybe they're right. There is another way to get to a super will hold off on for a second. We want to find out first a little bit more about our guest. That's right, Where can we listen to the control group and learn more about you and your films and all that stuff? We can find the control group at the apple pie, gas in all major package platforms, and we have a site which is control, group dot, show and as far as me, I'm on the internet movie database and I dont maintain like a regular profile, tight page but try to stay active in the social media is as much as I can. We find the control group social media on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. If you wanna, interact They were the shoe. There's some really cool visual aspects to it that I think definitely worth the digital trip

and all the films that I've made, including the unwanted and, of course, Hell's. Highway are available on dvd from Keno Robber, so they're right now? You can go ahead in no deposits, yet let it finish, but then subscribed to the control room and then start listening. Those episodes pressure to this and then tell us what you think about it. You can give us a call we're one, eight, three three as T D, W, Whiting, hey Tannate! Oh yes, oh yeah! I prefer that perfect. Then you do. If you want to call us, but you should you could send as an email. We are conspiracy. It has to work stack you looking for new podcast, who is

these days. Well, if you want real stories about love, commitment, marriage and hope stories that will help you, through the strangest of times, look further than season for the committed podcast, its storytelling? venture about what really happened. After I do hosted by me Joe Piazza, while we are still stuck in the house, there are three whole seasons of committed for you to bend three available. The Iheart Radio APP Apple podcast or wherever like to listen to pod casts. Technology shapes our lives and we shape technology on the podcast text of you can join me. Jonathan Strickland, as I dive into tech stories, ever wondered how a particle accelerator works, or cause the video game crash of nineteen eighty three or who really invented the radio on textiles, Look at how tat works and, more importantly, how it affects us you can find. Next off on the eye heart radio up on Apple

it or wherever you get. Your pod casts