Though we're part. These days was sharing more so at Geico, we'd like to say thanks. Thanks for sharing your savage dance moves thanks for sharing your d, I why haircut fails banks for sharing your inner lips and stop now it's our turn to share with the Geico give back the fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies for current and new customers, because we committed for the long haul, the fifteen percent credit last. Your full policy to visit guy got outcomes less. Give back for more info and eligibility andean the bureau host of the head, podcast family secrets, I just a new path cast called the way we live now. Our life I've been disrupted interrupted, but that does not mean that we can't reach one another in ways that are both powerful and intimate I'll talk with people. Across the great human tapestry, what's life like for you today,

we'll be reminded that were not alone. Listen to the way we live now honey. I aren't radio, app apple pie, outcasts or wherever you get. Your pack casts from you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know,

well hello and welcome back to the Ministry of stuff. They don't want you to know, they call me met and I am no the illuminated one Brown, seven out of our summit. I remarked Mona moment that seen from Temple of Doom Xaver was momentarily speaking and tell me was covering my heart. I think that's that's just saying Kali mind than you're supposed to say on them. Should by isn't that right? Oh yeah, I guess so you are back on them, show by ha, that's really simple adieu colleague or what about a different kind of temple. Today we go on ass airily one of doom, but neither potentially yeah. They call me, then you or you. This is not the Indiana Jones Temple of Doom tribute show this stuff, they don't want, you know and no you're segue way was fantastic. What are we talking about today today? We're talking about a little something called prosperity, theology or

We also think of it as tell evangelism yes, it is certainly an arm yet an arm of it yeah. So here we go another religious episode. It's not particularly religious, we're not talking about a religion so much as were examining some of it. People operating within it and movements, the? U s that you have maybe heard about yeah, I think, tell evangelism absolutely ties into this. We hear them. Evangelist, but what does that mean person who seeks to convert other people to a certain fate. This, also known as proselytizing its typically used in a christian contacts here in the west, you know we don't hear much about Buddhist. The list. So we don't even know, that's the thing so The connotation here involves public speaking and were performance. So, while for if, for instance, our super pretty

Your case you pegrenne today, we have a stable of super producers, are higher than the money A posse move were positive. Super producers in a stable, oh, so, would pick on key little bit news. Him is an example. If key, he was proselytizing people. He might. I decided to write a letter. You know what I mean like dear pixel on random, Dear Al Franklin, Donald Trump, her whomever. I sincerely believe in this particular and I think you should do you and it could be. Any sort of spiritual idea, Yanza solicitation, Mason its use cetacean in that regard, nuts, probably very polite rhetoric- has Casey's very talented writer, you how we and we just a drain on here, and you will always be at least something that I see every year during driving on our evangelists, who are oppressed

rising in the streets with the EC talking about Christianity, income to Jesus in other, it's it's a, Then you ve, probably seen, a very little lazier. This year I saw one: do that has had a boom box that was playing a message on loop, Anita stood there holding the song is they're all week, and you know it it's hard work. He can't sit down, maybe his lunch break or something similar phoned enemy so as a yelp forestry quarter programme. Though, be great, so evangelism is a little bit more in your face steadily connotation Casey practising a type of delete, a called evangelism. He would We go the whole nine. You know a linen suit attend. The travels across the sunbelt case. For producer, Casey Programmes, powerhouse of signs wonders in deliverance. I am actually sell em myself on this. What are you? What do you think Casey? Ok, we get

I would go to that and your beer familiar with this infection and you're familiar with this with the televised not at which call televangelist rate example would be in the show carnival there. There is a whole travelling preacher scenario when they set up a tent, and you know people in tongues and sometimes get the Holy Spirit in them laying hands and all that lot of that old School showmanship that goes into this idea of evangelism yeah, and I also remember where my favorite creepy versions of it is the tent revival: preacher, true to take the ass one, who has rambling monologue. That is super love, craftiness, sinister, but people are treating it as though they were listening to a sermon on the gospel and is not just one appearance of that guy like his that's it. I think he comes back with his voice. Well you never seen the Draken tone set our way I am, but why does it ever said that doom? He sees your true vice. He sees it

me and when I saw a third I blind and he's talking about seeing people's true faces the singer, and he says you know I want to see you true face and when I see him they're gonna, be same they're gonna, say appear more turns out it's a bit. He does it's a little bit of a street preacher kind of price, so it is Brad also proselytizing for the church, thereby blind, The term evangelism derives from people sources in our modern connotation started as a greek word original, something like messenger of Good NEWS, which is why you and your people say. Have you heard the Good NEWS and that's all about Jesus died for your sins and came back, and if you believe in him, then you get to go to That's good news for two Geico commercial. Ok, What is this? We live in a weird time. Right here also have got avenge, elegant, Christianity right you often here. Evangelism assigned to that and so

for instance, there could be a Methodist evangelists right. Could be any any degree of protestant, the guy several doctrinal things in common one biggest of courses. The emphasis born again nature of religious salvation? Yes, I am here I say we ve have really a special relationship with a it's. It's just thrived. You're in this country. I mean across the world as well, but here I would save at least from My research and what I've seen it just thrives. Why do you think that is That's a good question, I think maybe it's just where I don't know. Maybe it matches up with the american dream in some way. Are the idea of rebirth? Perhaps yeah? I don't know, I feel again. Truly.

Tied in to some things, but yeah yeah fill it there's a reason that America is such a rich, cultural soil for this sort of stuff, but it also this is expanded. Now across the world. Wherever there are protestants, then there are also going Evan Jellicoe Organizations, and a huge political movements I said, good God, released. A big driver of political change surely Republican Party specifically, yet an inn. Also there is wanna leave the Catholic church out the thing we after me which may strike us. Some. Some of us were more secular as surprising. Is that all do multiple denominations? I give religion exist in this case Christianity within denominations. There are movements right in those. MRS nor said, I can often drastically effect the polluter

landscape in Central America and in South America? There is a there was a movement called liberation theology which these, which. Totally struck the more hawkish right wing part of the american government as a threat, because these left wing catholic priest. Who were saying well, this is how we think Christianity should be apply towards more socialist environments which, as you know, a big. No, no, since a big immigration to the EU. To meddle in a country's affairs, but yet the these these job rose or maybe denominations movements. Is probably the best work or not always created equally like some individual at Angelica preachers have reached the pinnacle. Stardom and It says you know Casey Paragraphs Powerhouse of signs wonders and was the other one

it's a long named animated such a long and some move blossom only to enter a decline in later years. Especially prominent here in the. U S and controversial type of christian belief system is known as prosperity. The ology you might not have the term before you have definitely heard of the women and men preaching recited the tap the show? Yes, if we then heard at least once hopefully herded at least once a week the idea here so dear. Here is that God, what once for you is, be well like to be healthy to be financially blessed. God wants that for you. The problem is with you it's with your faith You don't have enough for you You you ve got to have that you ve got to have to send money and donations to these places too, essentially Greece, your faith in a way like I'm

this money in faith to a ministry, and then I am going to receive something back from that. I'm gonna get my stuff back ten fold from God, my blessings or Yes, that's according to the leaders of these particular donations right, then, Yes, sir, This is the idea, I think, that's a good summation. There met war. The idea is that personal faith. It's called positive speech or positive confession Donations to religious causes will be repaid in in material and literal terms right as well as spiritual. So it's not just karma. It's like cash, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly in the Bible, is portrayed. Lot of prosperity, theology as a contract between God and humans. Very. If then proposition. If humans have faith in God, God will deliver security and prosperity

sickness and poverty. Interestingly enough are viewed as curses. They can be broken by the power of That's the power of positive thinking. What I've with a lot of people, may be surprised to learn about this movement. Is that its built on a secular concept? The secret basically building, a concept old in that the secret to borrow from called new thought is popular. Nineteen thirdly twentieth century. It was pretty much gap. The modern interpreters, be the secret was the secret That's the thing that says it all about new thought: it was a book. It was written net. Essentially says you put positive thoughts out into the world, and you can make them real anything that you truly believe. You can make happen the centrally, which is a later interpretation of the regional new thought thing right,

late, eighteen, hundreds, so the secret doesn't repackage this for bill. Time remember seeing that book everywhere and I've never had any idea what it was its has Oprah mentioned. It is over Winfrey said, oh well. If the idea, the philosophy behind new thought was that the key to health and wealth acquisition is thinking visualizing, in speaking, the right words, not all of the new thought proponent survey, were christian, but there held that the individual human being human being had divinity and that they could affect. It. Will change through their mental state, mind over matters the power of positive thinking, exactly that's what the secret it more or less I hope you didn't ruin the book. I have thought about it. We can you spoil a book like that kind of useless to buy it

the whole point of the very too at the enemy Shirley Renaud. No, no reading it will give you more benefit, is hearing us. You know give the cliff note slow. Will you could all you could buy it or you could just think positively that it's already in your house. Let me know what happens shortages think imagine in visualize, you ve already right now. I know I'm I'm not. I don't. The sound rules There are on a date of studies that prove the at least the medical. Facts of positive things. In terms of recuperation rates stuff like that, but we're Talkin mind control here, right. In other words, if you could correctly channel your mental energy, you could harness material results almost a mere very quickly

A man named Norman Vincent Peel was pastor of place called Marble Collegiate Church in New York City, and he popularize this idea. These techniques Erica with his book. The power of past thinking what you know you ve heard of your book. Nineteen. Fifty two in that book. I digress. They met with that aim. To my friends. Mom had that book on herself when I was a little go on, or is it a good red I'd, never touch Oh they wouldn't let you touch it. No, I just let it remain enshrined in glass. He had no actual just say it seeing there with a bunch of other, so self help stuff. Just well, you know being positive in getting what you We should write a self help book accurately. It feels like to be easy it because it would be easy to write a self help book but really difficult to write a good one. That's exactly exactly very much now my friend growing up his my daddy's had all the Stephen King books in writing. We those either because I was to skirt and readers until high school

which it s still down, guess he ate at four o clock today That's true! You have an adventure, we're gonna, go, see him adventure and look at the cover. My ears has anyone seen it I have Ah, sir you're, on the ball person, you did it. You warned me about the jump scares again. Dirty You give me a sharp elbow to the rib winsome spooky. You owe me sit behind you just occasionally Lena go haricots. We can get that at its just children laughing it should be you're welcome technology. I guess you well venture capital is so we got a little way off the rails. Please let me know what you think of it obviously were excited to go see the fell, so the power positive thinking, seminal book books from this time period. We can discern some of the key recurring elements of what would weaken

the dna. Ultimately, what would become prosperity, gospel speaking, the right words, invoking a universe law of success with the words and having faith in oneself in those ability. So allow these ideas influenced among tons of others E W Canyon, who was an evangelist and the founder of the Bethel Bible Institute. So his particular approach to theology was the basis for one of the prosperity gospels most particular features. Speaking, the right words to bring about a new reality. Manifesting. You know what you believe, what you wish to be true, so what you confess you possess is kind of like a reverse version of the traveller in Ghostbusters or actually full circle like it. You know the kids to see the monster is whatever they fear the most. This is like a positive version of that. There were how like a go at that good on you bring him dead, kids,

is a link to the popular asperity preachers that form the foundation of the modern prosperity, Sports movement earlier We had asked about why took such strong route I'm starting to see a clear now knew why it flourish quintessentially american, an individualist there's this dear, that each person is responsible for her or his own happiness or whatever their gender might be and their health? in their situation, life and then fine. Mental energy in the appropriate direction is in of itself sufficient to cure any the idea of positive thinking as a panacea, but then also bootstraps, but then so bootstraps odor yeah, I'm glad you said they exert a couple other

contributing concepts and play here, there's like take yourself up by your way back when people always have bootstrap a little loops at the top, you. Don't wanna go hang up your boots on a peg yeah, yet they definitely feel for poor mine Cinema is like that. If they're in the back, I think you can hang them places webmaster absolute, no one hangs booth, hangers man hey a right in and let us know how you use your bootstraps. You hang your boots or do you just? Do it pull them like a tab, seek unpopular heal in what is a boot strapping, let's get into the cells, and the idea here is that that there too, as as each other to contributing concepts and play in addition to this philosophical On second thought: there is the idea of cap more specifically, the way a lot of western culture idolizes the protestant work ethic so called

in nineteen o five variable author de MAX Weber, publish the protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism, and in this he said specifically the Protestants, have a different approach, the labour and that this approach to labor is crucial to the developed. Capitalism and industrialization. He mainly about group that is, there were called the Calvin straight. And they believed in this idea of pre destination, which is really poor and thought pressing concept. The idea was a flat circle idea. We also that guide Like everything exists, created, as God created it so assent,. God knows, who's going to, Heaven is going to Hell like who's gonna, be good, whose right you're born damned or save an act. No free will reign. Essentially, a notary are like automaton that are just sat on a path, predetermine path and

is all we can possibly achieve and we can see get em. We can still get in trouble there. That's hustlers money! If you wanna get into. The mindset of some of this pre desk nation in just the religious atmosphere of the time pressure. Some of the most strange and terrifying things read our old sermons, one of the bankers the break out singles is a peace call centres in the hand of an angry god and one it's it's terrifying. This. The sermon contains too considerations that are all pretty well we downers. God may cast wicked men into hell at any given moment. Several very specific things about the wicked and the the idea of God,

It's like this anti heroin in action film and it's coming for you and justice let you know how it ends. Hey, you spoil this. Do you think I mean I think it's been out for establishing a limitation case. It is ok to spoil looking rum Jonathan Edward that centres in the hand of the angry guided ends like this. Therefore, let everyone ditches out of Christ now awaken fly from the wrath to come there. The vote mighty. God is now undoubtedly hanging over a great part of this congregation. Let everyone fly out of Saddam Haste and escape for your lives. Look not behind you escaped to the mountain, lest you be consumed pewter. I don't I don't know if they like pause for a band play for very sort of files. I guess better bad, but about bow. Oh here's a thing: there are a lot of human.

On this planet even now that I'm assuming take that very seriously when I think the angelic calls in general are sort of the equivalent of light strict constitutional construction swear. It's like the Bible is to be taken pretty literally and a lot of their tenants come from specific passages, even in terms of tithing which will go. To a little later now end in MAX Weber's idea about the protestant work ethic. He argues that Protestants were looking for outward signs of God's favour, money, material goods and for ways to express inward virtue. That being hard work which has bootstraps I would be the inward virtue like working working diligently to better yourself- shows you're sure your inner goodness, and then do you devotion right and then that devote

reward is shown in, like you know your physical success, and if you believe that your pre determined to be good right, if you are doing good things, it's almost that you have to believe that you are predetermine be good. So it's interesting cycle feedback lingering exactly so today, this internal, asian is still the subject of a lot of debate, but it's a popular perspective and when we come back, will tell you about the final contributing thread to the formation of

prosperity. Theology, though, we're part these days was sharing more so at Geico, we'd like to say thanks. Thanks for sharing your savage dance moves thanks to sharing your d, I why Heraclea trails thanks for sharing your inner lips ink star now, it's our turn to share with the guy go, give back the fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies for current and new customers, because we committed for the longer the fifteen percent credit. Last, your full policy to visit Geico dot com, slash, give back for more info and eligibility world yours. The ball park has the new factors with a fresh perspective. Culture bail, you not just considered in a bail down in one city. Impress us talk about this there. All eighty every owner is seventy away out criminal, social media. Ok, she carries out a lot of quality or whatever they think wipe out by any measure. Does I'll see to the millionth like ourselves. A flame sitting handrail summer right out, like like a young girl, are alive. My man is in jail and I started the like someone else. I know it's not right, but I really can't take when I feel what should I do even couple world, maybe you gave rise, is makes a huge and on our brand, can sell available now on the radio have on our ever. You get your plaid cat,

we returned we made it does have a good break. I said we talked a little more about centres in the hand, angry God, It is just that guy's is writing fire there. The final contribution to the dna of what we call prosperity theology today the development of care is Matic Pentecostal Church is in the? U S, there's an umbrella term, for a decentralized group of churches were tightened, like hundreds and hundreds of denominations. Over seven hundred there, characterized by an emphasis on what's known as spiritual gifts or terrorism, from which the term charismatic has drawn a worshipper experience, for example the gift of faith healing rain or Blossom Laelia, the arches, the the fancy stop with the Thai will allow our law. Everything sounds like glass allow Lala, it's all the loved for speaking in talks, true by love,

Where did funds, when you say glass allow yeah they repeatedly, it's kind of sounds like you. Talk is yea ends already form follows function, it's getting late and another one by love. That's when people go all along its word that describes very civic, sound like when you go up there. I can do it my throat or less that, but I think it is you'll wake up all along our idea in isolation whose relations there was little high just to give back into the tradition of worship. In this way, for the believer that God will manifest in some concrete way to repeat the fateful people who are worshipping so you physical, you gonna have something happen when you're thinking about In worshipping God, in your mind, do you have an example?

Yeah, all those are the examples that speaking in tones were running feeling, something having says yeah yeah ACT was also like when you see somebody kind of like going into convulsions who ever yet or like someone's, let the preachers laying hands and then all of a sudden. They start like getting flew out yard move. Israelis hugging, you In addition to decentralize nature, these churches means that there is room for individual leaders to become sort of the focus of personality based organisations. Many of these officials are preachers my practice, Faye feeling or similar practices, and They would build up these very devoted personal followings, with with these three ideas, right, protestant work, ethic, new thought, philosophy and charismatic Pentecostal, preaching

these three kind of ultronic cabin implanted in together prosperity, theology bubbles to the surface and it started like the work ethic maxim describes as a way to justify the big elephant in the room of both human civilizations during the gilded age. In the U S, it came around justify why some people were rich and other any many more were poor. I love his next quote an early prosperity, gospel proponent, the Baptist preacher, Russell age con well, oh I get it back, who knows he told his mostly poor congregation in nineteen fifteen quote. I say you ought to be rich You have no right to be Why? The very idea, the nerve running around no shoes poverty and left and right. What's next hip

you by your bootstrap, exactly he's, punishing or he's saying that you are being punished, because Your failure is not because of some larger structural inequality. That's keeping these people in a state of poverty this kind of interpretation, regardless Valley feel about it when pretty far and was pretty well known, God was occasionally portrayed as a banker yeah dispensing money. Material goods to the deserving in Jesus Christ. The sum was seen as the first and best capitalist. Two very modern, spin on very, very old stories, and it took off in some circles in today's press radiology- has a pretty difficult amount of support in two thousand and six a pole from the times on that seventeen percent of American Christians identify explicitly like yes, I am pardon prosperity, theology that means that is a good chance that a number of people,

having this conversation with us in listening, would identify them and after a little less than one out of five, that's really great later on we're going to need to hear from you and we will get to it yet absolutely because again not or not, all churches practising prosperity. Theology are the same, or, I would even say in some cases remotely relate so thirty. One percent of the American Christians pulled believed If you give your money to God, God will bless you with more money and it falls the one percent agree with the more general idea that God, once people to be prosperous however Mainstream Evangel Ackles or a lot of them can,

gotta general, is a little bit. They consider this prosperity theology to be a heresy in a way something not of the true faith and why here's, where it it's crazy, their allotted critics They don't believe the official stance of the proponents and instead of seeing them as evaded or motivational religious figures, skeptical prosperity algae see these people, as essentially cod Artist Commonwealth, Con Wells. Conway Twenties, you know in this is a cypher in Nashville, I think, was national. There was a thing: Spring up, like a seasonal, amusement park, goes called twitty city. They always kind way twitty audit and they also have the right to take the tweet Tweedy Bird

two new, Yellow Bernie Twitter City, and they will call it twitty city. I thought I thought putty tat yeah. I did the one! That's the one! I thought that's what about thirteen? I would think so I would have done Unlock tat. I would make a lot more sense: less gonna. There must be some kind of backroom deal going on between twenty in there explosive generate differ world back. Then I got a camel licence there. Why for some reason they had a thing where you could ride camels like a breeding licence test. To say yet a licence to operate a camel. The renaissance fair here you don't have to have a license. That's pretty and so I would like to give two hours ago, Asia Eyes, and then I go here. You go out to keeping the idle calculus. I don't think it will be a situation where we were the later on an airplane or a boat, and so it goes. No, it's their camel operator in the house. You have that cover before

get to deepen the this. I just want to point out that there are degrees of this stuff too, and we're gonna die about some of the extreme ones of France and then you now, as it a lot stuff filters into more mainstream kind, first accepted just culture as well, but we're gonna start with some of the more extreme ones, and we're not saying that I think we are giving to your faith are given to your church- is inherently a bad thing at all. It's a personal ways, but we're gonna start with some examples. Where and of the guinea, one would argue that there is a little bit of ill intent, but there's a wee some abuse going on of some sort law, as we said before, Bureau, as we always say, we're not going to tell you what to bleed interfere with your own spiritual practices, it's very personal, private matter. We did say ethically said earlier in the show too, that these

these movements, and I created equally and in some cases was languages they might even be remotely relate current. I they built in health and wealth, but a very different ideas about how to get there and into that point. As we said before, a lot of the critics, some of the strongest critics come from the church, barely theology, is certainly not a part of me. The stream evangelical ism. In fact, it. Even articles have condemned for a large part, prosperity gospels to no uncertain terms. Just for the few decades. Even you'll hear some of the loudest criticism of this stuff alone with its most well known. Practitioners like Joel Ostia probable one of the most successful religious figures of his sorts. Currently he caught some bad press recently in the wake of Hurricane Harvey, because staff said that the church,

was inaccessible Flooding, and that turned out. Of course, out of you, I don't. I don't pretend to know the exact particular years of what went on in that church. For that thing by man, it is supply looking to see how quickly social media can blow something like that up where just you know a couple thousand tweets and oh man, job stiens. Getting on the news that the internet has always been the losers capricious favour his right eye, SUI others again and Gordon fee. A prominent pentecostal scholar who wrote a book called the disease health and wealth gospels there's a Calvinist passed? Her name I'm piper. He said the prosperity gap will not make anyone praise Jesus. It will make people praise prosperity, take an idle your creating and there's a Utah pastor named rekindle person, who said jewel ah see equally misunderstands poor matters of faith and doctrine in this that way,

Criticism seems to be based more on the the nuts lots of knowing the Bible ripe, I do also- I will mention Books- want to highlight blessed a history of the american prosperity Gospel by Kate, Bowler, thanks, Kate Buller, yet among its monograph evidence, probably the best work of its kind out. Currently to read more secular forces, also criticized prosperity, theology, any cues. It splitting the poor. This accusation is a response to prosperity, theology, heavy and we mean heavy emphasis on tiding, Asperity theology tidy. Nor giving money to the church should I be someone's first fruits, their initial earnings that first ten percent So, if we want to go, if gonna be brass tacks about it more specific, then. Would mean tempers?

your gross income, yeah net income, timber, Senor, pre tax, so Uncle SAM comes second Uncle SAM come second, Sally may comes thorough credit card debts, alimony payments down there. Some gauges medical debt, which is one of the primary causes of financial per? disaster tree. So this money in this tiding is seen as an investment by showing faith parishioners could have a hundredfold return on their investment. This is a reference to a verse in the gospel mark about those who suffer for Christ receiving a hundredfold what they had lost while in his book was a prosperity. Can Copeland have rights? Do you want? hundredfold return on your money, give God multiply it back to you. No bank in the world offers this kind of return. Praise the Lord from this perspective, tidings they financially responsible think

we have, as I like I'd like a hot deal really does. Doesn't it aegis just feel so predatory when you think about people that might be watching a program at a certain time on television elderly allow events, but there may also be cases where were you equality is a tricky thing. There may also be cases where people believe this has worked for them. There They? I gave my last five dollars a sea prayer money end. Immediately afterwards, I got that job or that inheritance, or I found the straps on my boots there and it turns out they work. You know it's it's also a self fulfilling prophecy, though, for you know the more wealthy, I would say right. So if you're, like timing and that's a big part of your life- and you ve been doing it for a long time, you could argue that accounts for your continued prospect.

In success, whereas I think that I would be interested to see the officer between donations by wealthy church members verses me no more. Or class middle middle class members and how those smaller donations add up and if they equal, if not exceed that of the very The contribution I would say that the hook is I'm not doing so. Well, I need to give What little money I have in order to do better? It's like you, gotta, spend money to make money right now. I just checked out that's his business. Can I just is really quickly and reject a personal thing. Course, going to church as a kid would notice. I wasn't really pay attention this, but I would notice that a couple times a year there would be a spirit. He just a sermon. It was all based on prosperity and it was- about. Tidying was about why you have to do it. Why you should

area why you should do it and why you gonna have to do it. That says I was method is so what can we do? with the end then became known denominational, but it never changed it never and there was always this big put to make sure you are giving x amount of your money to the church at all times less. I pledged DR weakening PR it's exactly like that. Isn't it well the yet more ways than one because the church depend upon its congregation. I salute written or so you, I think, there's nothing wrong with having to support that organization. I guess what I'm saying is that it it's so normalized for anyone who has been going to any kind of church for any amount of time that the jump to prosperity, theology I dont think, is that far allies What you're saying? Ok, let's rising at the top of the section two, it's like their extreme examples, but this these concepts trickled down into more accepted mainstream, like what

How can you not like? I don't think they were put in that line every day, though they certainly wanted to remind you, give you a little kicking the pants like the empire let's drive- you know that hey this doctor I'm for free ass. You know how to help us out there We feel sorry for the folks on the impure pledge drives toward the end. You could tell there really feel in it because people who don't write into them all year- right into him during the pledge. Dr guy, I can't believe you doing pledges drive. This is not what I had my radio on. What restore public radio I had to do little spots like that from then. Let's drive and very specific language, we was it in them with and thank you maybe, but I we had like these very strategic meetings. Where light we have the person that headed up the pledge drive like helping shaped the language for the whole thing and like to make it most effective in all the stuff. In the thing they do now is day, hey help us

our goal early and will end the pledge Dr Weir, holding back good shows hostage care it man, yes, so beautiful, so we do see this stuff occurring in. That's not the only criticism. There is also a lady criticism. I can Running tax exemptions: this is a real hot, but an issue here in the: U S like all any other religious institution in the states organs since touting prosperity. Theology do not have to pay taxes while yeah. What are they? they were. Criticisms of this was a couple years back in twenty fifteen John Oliver ON is spent ass. It show last week, snake shadow formed the each of our lady of Perpetual, which was entirely sedated only to be a church to avoid paying tax actually made a ton of money. They were sent all kinds of

donations, including some, including jars of seamen. You can just say air years, then, in six actual seeds and insects, toys, joy seamen and cash heavily featured in that segment we are talking about was one of your favorite, their prosperity, theologians. Yes, that is correct craft Lou Dollar, here in Atlanta Craft Doll, prosperity, theologian? If who maintains that craft dollar is real and God given name absolute, I just want you to know that he says that is his real name. He's those planes? You guys send in your money. He needs those planes and so had not too far into my fascination with this person by this? the person who made the national headlines in the states when he had a fund raising have to buy a new private playing for the purpose

is of spreading the gospel yeah. There was a previously on private plain: theirs The story is that it will is unsafe and out of shape, so they're gonna buy a new one right and he did something brilliant in the. In his speaking, came, doesn't ask people to donate. He asked you believe in God. So he says you know, I need this many people to believe in God for fifty a hundred and fifty two and fifty dollars, you know and then interest People who were opponents are therefore telling this guy his prisoners that they cannot believe in God. They telling me that I can't believe in God for a house for car for new job We too believe even more now it's time for double exe. Of people to give ten thousand dollar I or something like that, so

Fascinating in Their stories decide like they say that the plane was unsafe to fly and that they needed the play right. I also believe the preachers and prosperity, the algae movement are misusing church funds. Scrolling donations way impersonal bank accounts spending, money meant for the church online personal items. Your rolls Royce is high and cars. Luxury living situation, so he talks about that. He like hypes up his his orbiting wealth. In talks about how he deserves it. In barely shies away from the fact that his followers paying for nothing. My word for analysis, newly sample of craft load, dollar inaction. Oh, let's paragraphs, thirteen reform or what evil pursue with sinners. What a righteous good shall be repaid. I'm

this year has been crowned with goodness God Almighty, has ordained and pre arranged for you and I live the good life. So I won't. Get ready if you're not live in a good light, did read it. God says you get ready to repay the righteous wisdom. Lou, MR dollar is not the only one. Let's go back to just what am I feel great prosperity. Ministers. You never favour to hear yeah he's absolutely my favorite. I grew up with him watching television as a kid before school no one's name is Robert Tilton. He said out and seventy four before I was born, but he grew his ministry into one of the largest in the country by the nineties and yes, what he's website and still go and strong today he has like a way of life. Webcast that he does A vivid memories of this guy watching on tv

he was fascinating- he would speak about all these Wendy miracles. They have come true in your life, all you. To do is have faith, and- He would also speaking tongues quite regularly. And he would call out somebody like he would. This was like on regular tvs alone, television screens staff in the morning linking virtual cardiac immersion before that the first commercials come on like five or six or something like that. I am yeah. Where are you at the five? My mom? Was it you're. So I was, I was at school. Really early I was fascinated by this guy I would just I would just sit there. Enlargement, I'll be ok with it before the commercial came on those fine, but the thing. He said at least I gathered from him and then reassured myself after looking up now is then all your money problems originate with your since the things that you are doing but if you send donations to his ministry, you're gonna get those blessings back. I mean he said it. Just

right out there. He wasn't. Playing around with the idea or anything. He just said that and at the time his ministry had this direct mailing arm, you might say the biggest part of it. That would send you items that Europe, This was a touch, your inner. You interact with them in some way and then you send it back to the ministry. Yeah right yes, you can. You already see like what's going on here. You send me a miracle prayer cloth, you pray with You know you interact with it, then you send it back, but you sent it back with your faith, you're donation right and then you that going with people who, your show and it's pretty crazy. The repair clause, these local, they would send you there you pray with again and then it gets put on some wall of deliverance, theirs, in tracing, where, if you put your hand on it, I make him, do it

we're here. You ve made it into Turkey, but then you send it back with your donation and then Robert someone's gonna put his hand where you put your hand, and you ve had like somebody to do it for him. Well, assigning autographs lives. Let's, let's get into that, because the interaction was always on you right. Robert Tilden wasn't said We think that he put his hand on the central that way. That's the bad example by you had to send the thing back to them for the interaction to occur, so you never saw it. You both had faith. That you're donation is gonna, do some for you right, if it was fascinating to me in ABC News: didn't investigation in eighteen, eighty one whenever this guy huh, specifically looking at the direct mailing service and they found that that alone. Brought in his ministry in nineteen. Ninety one

eighty million dollars a year and he wasn't doing what he said he was no did they find like a giant like pile of hand tracings, and they looked at the dumpsters in the back. You may let Sarah numerous banks that were used. This is all by the way. I hope I can even talk about this, that is, for the reliable lawsuits dead, end up getting thrown out in a bunch of appeals and much other stuff, but her they found just tons and tons of fame not family gosh. I'm sorry, that's not a word, but these lists in the donations and the little objects, the special water that they would send. You thrown away with the donations were taken, the wired rather by them in the first place, probably right, no, no! No, they would send stuff to you as like a gift in a way that you

interact with and send back, but it did it did it directly correlate with your level of giving like back to the entire model where you get a coffee cup at one level and then like a toad bag. Oh I'm sure some of that existed. I didn't I didn't find. Much would will circle, but there's more to it, though we ll have to go into if you're interested In this whole thing, you can look up Robert Tilton and you may know who this person is, if you don't recognize of the name, If you were alive, while the internet video phenomenon was beginning You may remember something called farting preacher, and this is the person has featured in those videos, they are beyond the phone or no, they even had a service that would satirical and in my opinion at least as a kid watching them, or a younger person watching them, the funny thing. I've ever seen. I can attest personally as a thirty four year old man having never seen before. I live when you showed it to me earlier this morning,

I was in stitches amazing. It's me but you know, buyer beware could potentially roughly events did you do we mention these scripts? That operators reusing? Oh, yes, I was also in the dumpsters and particular with those groups. It said you're not allowed to be on the phone or no, they even had a service that would cut the phone off if The person in the call centre was talking for more than seven minutes because the volume was of such a level that you couldn't stand the line that longer hand. They wouldn't accept anything any don't below a hundred dollars. So if recalling because you are lonely, need someone to talk to hang up. They give you seven minutes? If you got a hundred dollars, you know might get on right, Greece's, so this new. Clearly seen in this situation. There was stuff

Tell him didn't want you to know. We is that they were not reading it. They were not even according to their own internal logic, providing they considerations that they said they would. Do there's so much more to money. Wasn't going to these He said he those that have several orphanages in Haiti that apparently didn't exist when ABC rusticated and allow the money that was being donated was forced to go there, but it and he had numerous mansions guys This guy had so many mentions in boats and cars and it's just really. Disturbing me. It makes me angry. So not the only one, no he's not only fish in the shawl here now you still go. Here's just another one I threw in here, because I think it's no worthy, maybe two younger people who might be listening.

You ever heard of something called Super Deluxe, which is a thing it's a video. I don't know network, I guess Schuyler video neighbouring they'll. Never to channel as well and there's a guy named VIC Burger who is produced. An editor and he makes he makes these Jim your videos, specifically about Jim curse newest menace, and he's been around for a long time. Remember, you might remember Tammy Faye Baker in Jamaica. They into some legal issues. He ended up having to go to jail for oil woolly he's back in his most recent stuff is all based on preparing people for what's to come for civilization like these, in times of civilization. Exactly what you one of those big burger clips is to give you a sense. God gave us a new leader, gives a new president and he says We don't argue pipe

enemy, will come back and that's what they're trying to do there trying to kill their tried to get him out of office Look, I don't go. That's that's pretty good! That's pretty good! Sampled people find it on you too. The food, the right, yes, n, n you! If you're gonna website they will exe Stu nations for the following. There's an expanded, fuelless generator package that costs only three thousand hundred dollars is also other. Like no said the bucket of food. Called the staying alive time of trouble? You get thirty two buckets of food for fifty, hundred dollars, but my favorite encouraged to see This whole thing functions is the complete gross store special for thousand dollars, but it as in the description of this item, that the veil you of the food you're getting? Is two thousand one hundred and ninety dollars, but your

in quite a bit more for that saw in Central Europe donating to the ministry sure and getting something that you will probably use earlier. Might you is that wrong, then, if they have the actual value of the stuff, I was rest now exactly out. I had actually made me feel a little better about it of, but still you know he's making money on steering you into believing that you know the end of the world. Is on its way in somehow you're gonna be able to be a proper for this and be ok. I don't know it's still rubs me the wrong way. Envied Berger is hilarious in his videos, but it's not me not quite as bad anymore I totally agree. I think the transparency and the pricing is interesting and pretend He makes it a little less egregious, but when you look at these, they they look like a you know.

Billy, maize, infomercial, wearing heartily like selling you a product like it is very much not framed as tithing to the church. It very much like this is what you need by this prepare for the end of the world and you We can get it here, folks, so there's that So again it's a matter of degree. You know it would be unfair to people of faith in large to say that all of these the only way out creed, but also some here at least some how wrong or morally bankrupt. Yet several of them, I would argue, are empty if they don't want you to know, but not all I will have more examples that will return to after a quick word from our sponsors ever pull up to a red light. Does look around at that man or woman sitting beside you, who is that person, there's about five minutes, in people out our partner brawl right now, and what about

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we have returned no. There was one particular example that you are talking about off air before we force stepped into the booth, the room, the compound- and yes, this all originated after I nor the preacher clip. He showed me a clip of just indeed were hanging out at he'll song is always called the hillside in allay is a mega church that was founded in Sidney New South Wales, Australia, one thousand eighty three by Brian and Bobby Houston, and it is expanded across countries in Europe, Asia and the Americas, and then rod online over a hundred and sixty nations, has more than a hundred thousand worldwide attendees. Eighty affiliated churches, and so, if it's you know, when you think of mega churches, you think This Sab, like Rock,

Sir Kind of atmosphere where, rather than like a traditional church, these things take place and like arena type setting out and and thousands of people high production value from the actual sermons to the music. It's these like coldplay style rock shows, with leg lights in Ellie and even pyrotechnics and all kinds of bells and whistles, and this This is one of the most successful kind of brain, this hell something largely because of its association with many celebrities. Now, especially the beaver thing in this another super deluxe video with Bieber hanging out with to the pastors and his part where me like, brushing his teeth while they're talking about stuff in there's this like expand my borders. Oh Lord section we recommend just type in Bieber Hassan we're not gonna bust thou, not here, but

This is what our time utterly, where it's like. I don't know if I would necessarily peg these people is specifically being prosperity, theologians or prosperity religion, but it's huge, partly because it's got this inherent flash and he knows glossy high production value quality in this sense, that of success. That goes along with it with these celebrity affiliations and they push very hard for, tithing, they are pentecostal and they again that very strict interpretation of the Bible which incur his tithing and they equation. To give ten percent of your income of grossing. Yes, of course, oh yes to the church and you look at their sites there. Very robust page you know contributing to this organisation. They have a music group, like each other universal music group like a record label, basically where they put out and make

large sums of money. I would imagine on these christian Rock. Type banned. You are you so listen to this stuff and I live, your name on used to seeing he operates is easily drums for I dont really. I mean I don't think inherently wrong. No, I'm just because I was too that we came from that. Youth group is well in these forever embedded in my brain. I resent that a little bit before we get that bad. Whenever you're about had no, I just want to bring it up, but it is an interesting question of when an organization gets this large at what point does it become justice money making machine? It's that huge? I am you could say the same thing about any large church arrived the Vatican. Member when we talk about the Vatican Bank and that just the money that gets poured into there in the in the weird part comes from the tax exempt an aspect, where you know

This is lining the pockets of the founders of the high level officials in these organisations and paying any tax on it and they own massive amounts of real estate like in Australia alone. I mean the value of the property that he'll song owns is unprecedented and they even, I think, we're in we're trying to enter into an agreement with the gun, meant of Sydney to developing. Huge area of of the of the city and Ultimately that didn't happen, because looking independent council recommended against it by we're talking big bang, spending power. Here and the ability to really shape the politics of the area where the sway, OSHA and beyond it absolutely and Anna wanna get you even though, because I don't think it's entirely relevant or talk about, but I think it's interesting the fox, of the founder of Ill song ran into some legal trouble. Following an accusation of

station of one of the child and his kind nation when he was a pentecostal passenger and we'll get to new. Here, it's really not particularly relevant, except in the fact that their seem to have been some influence, perhaps if you look at the details of the case, they could have come. Whether or not it was in choosing to level the accusations were not the mother of the child made some stuff, as I indicated that she viewed these as royalty in this task And there was a sense that we'd you know they can do no wrong. So there's that psychological aspect- maybe I'm silly, manipulating the legal system by you know. There's a lot of power that comes with being in these positions in people's minds that are following you. They I am certain almost superhuman notions. You know traits to do the folks that are like in controlling these kinds of here.

Organization, absolutely and that's not just native to prosperity, theology, but too late bring it back there. I would argue that many times that problem is compounded in prosperity. Theology one thing we would be remiss about, though we talked about, we, we perverted tax exemption a little bit. But there is reason- and there is good reason- that religious organisations in the- U S are exempt from paying taxes. It's the least worst answer to a very big potential problem, which is that taxing religions could lead to the loss of freedom of religion, yeah So what happens if there's euro? If there's a group of people who have their own private faith and have the money to pay for, though, right at money. They would go or the right to practise a religion exactly and money that would go to the government right

which you know may make it seem as though there are some connection and ideally in that separation would keep the young the it's like. The old arabic proverb, lake camel has his nose in the tent. Soon the camel will be in the ten t, o a slippery slope argument. Although camels to that guy did mean to bring it back, but it is a real problem and then you see you have people that establish you know stories with nothing but good intention, and there is a lot of of charity that get that that comes from their histories, and you know, philanthropy and helping people in need given to the poor I mean religion is, is a force of good Most of the time, I would argue that base level rays level at its most pure you, I call

The good don't be a villain yet, but I think that there are examples of folks like we're talking about here that maybe look at that tax exemption status is like a way to create an international money machine. Oh, how happy Emily absolutely read about the rationalizations for buying a price Jack in a world where one billion people die due to lack of toilets near. No, I mean like in terms of priorities, not being been sent as some sort of divine messenger. It's pretty clear to me that there are others is to spend money on and maybe true. Maybe people get caught in a bubble with the best of intentions you know and the press These can seem skewed. There is another double standard here, which is that shit, Tax exemption does exist for very good reasons, however, there's no said earlier, it's completely clear that large groups of motivated people in

Any religious organisations are being told how to vote. Yes. Without knowing in issue perhaps without even reaching their own conclusion through spiritual self guided journey. There being told that some greater reward, greater spiritual reward and remember death is Can we really good forever really bad for ever and a lot of these belief systems, and that too? on how you vote today, sing every country, then it's a big en bloc to leave Angelica vote was very successfully rallied in this most recent presidential election. So there is Ray Power there and when you start to ask yourself where these choices coming from who is influencing these choices and to what end that's a whole another, and of worms that we're not even going to minnow dive into this episode, but I could be one for the.

I think we should. I think we should look at that influence, because we know that it is global right, church and state interactions occur. In many many countries, the roles of churches when there is mass civil unrest, sure yeah, This aberration were always talking about, as it is a bit of window dressing. If you ask me often yeah often here, however, we draw to a close with our examination. The ins and outs of prosperity, theology, despite their there are many, the proponents of prosperity, Theo and there are many seem set to continue. This work well into the twenty first century, there's an inch thinking there. Booms and bus. Yes, with this sort of movements whose very big in the fifties ripe and was very big in the AIDS. So it may seem to decline or wax in winning over the over the deck. I think somebody gets. Some figure gets a little too big.

In the bar too well known, then get taken down and then you can? It happens in that way for a long time, it's not a big deal anymore and then somebody else gets a little too big because as nobody's when talking about it, I think exactly what happens, then now. What we are left with is the question. Much of the money sent to these organizations does go to spread the good work to maintain and grow a church and religious organisation to support those in need it goes into hidden bank accounts, personal vehicles, clothing, trips, housing to cover up crimes right based on multiple interviews from multiple journalists over multiple decades, that appears often to be the stuff they don't want you to know. Dear, where he reached the time where we ask you. What do you think about all this stuff, You know we spend some time researching. If we leave, you know we ve, given you are thoughts. What do you think

Is this something that positive? in your neck of the woods. Is it something you ve been a part of, maybe You got an anecdote of something that came out of working with maybe Joe lasting? Maybe you work in the church, Maybe you know maybe there's something we're missing here, be your jaw ostiense personal page who write to us we're on Twitter and we're on Facebook. You can find us we're conspiracy stuff on both of those we are concerned. He stuff showing Instagram send as any that stuff there or if you like social media, you can find us through email. We get all of our best suggestions for episodes from you and the feedback you send us on. These episodes is invaluable. It really helps us get a better understanding for what we covered and we'll be got right. Will we get wrong all that good stuff? If you want to write to us, we, conspiracy? It has networks dot com

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