It's divisive figures week! Holly and Tracy discuss the difficulty in sorting out the reality of Lorenz's work, because of the polarized view of him within the medical community. Then talk turns to Hugo Gernsback, and the ongoing divide over him.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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that sheen there is a grimy side filled with greed, disregard and scandal, listen to art bust scanned stories of the art world. Wherever you get your podcast from welcome to stuff you missed in history glass abroad, of Iheart radio Eleven tapping, fried, I am highly fry and I'm trying to be reopened I do not add ons lorens this week, who is is interesting fast naming troubling thing that really struck me and in doing so search on him. Was this whole controversy within the medical community and how difficult it can be in a situation like that, to tease out reality from all of the varying and very vehement opinions rain
I mentioned it bear even you know within statements that criticized his work, also kind of contradicted themselves We already knew that work in a big way way way way way sit. That was like a fascinating in and tricky part to make his I I'm not a doctor my shock you, but I'm not an it's hard. I think. Even I mean you see it even within the medical care, it is for people to evaluate, because there were some doctors who are like these great. What do you do? I'm and others who were really angry about it in and the pound they loved him, which adds a whole other layer, because whether any of those people criticising or supporting him work, of it? They were surely being impacted by the the public opinion of him and by the fact that he was literally on the front pages of papers all the time when every came right. This is one of those cases where it
recent history and still difficult to de. I guess you can't psychoanalyze every single person you set me up. even if, in the moment you had psychologist being by to do that work, you would probably still not get a full picture. So those are always interesting to me. I just realized so, as we were talking in that an absurd, I was talking about my grandmother who had Scully Ursus, and I said that she had no treatment for it beyond adjusting the hands of her skirt. Actually, now it's totally possible that some time before I was born, she did have some kind of treatment, but the end Zol was still that she had a priest pronounce spinal curvature that you know required her to alter our clothing, but then also- I remember she was diagnosed. I think, with my troll val pro lapse, based on what the the blood flow rushing through. Her heart sounded like do as tell us tat the scope, and it turned out that it was.
Really that her heart with tits, because of the curvature and and and so that was like a whole process of like unexpected side effects. It also reminded me of whichever I think it was Dini, was that the Judy Bloom book that was about Scully ISIS now remember. I was like a snooty child who didn't read. Judy blue eye was lake busy with other things like to sell you as an adult. No, no shaded, Judy Blue measure Sid. I had this weird bias against it: Lake. That's at all, of that, the main stream girls read that are not intellectual by which is just what a protectionist oh weasel. I was, and in some ways continue to be yeah. Well, I do google it on my phone and yes that is Dini by Judy Bloom
I I probably read more than once, because since Poleos runs in families really often like, I was constantly being monitored to see how my spine was doing, and so like. This was a book that I read a lot in my teen years ass. I was going through that uncertainty yeah the other thing is really interesting. That became came of in in sharp contrast in appearance to me was that you know I I mentioned at the top of this came up in are criminally episode about the the person that masqueraded as a doctor to assist him and was very you're saying. Is that if you look at stories of that person's life, I definitely kind of couch it as though he was seek. He was practising. Medicine
he was not. Actually I mean. Obviously he was representing himself as a doctor, but he wasn't doing hands on care with patients, which is something that gets left out, and it really wasn't until I was like gazing at old archival newspapers covering the story that they were the ones pointing out. You know even in because it's much more sensational to think the worst, even in pretty leg buried parts of the article where it be, I gotta know he just uses writing things down. He wasn't touching patients, but that's never part of it, and you see how like, depending on what the story is being presented as how those details shift in good reminder to aware digging in looking in them. Genes in finding the buried lead in some cases. I have many thoughts about the sort of back by being in the inn fighting amongst the medical.
Community, especially, you know, once it becomes something we ve talked on the show many times before, about scientific disagreements and people feeling that they were getting credit or that they had been overlooked in it, discussions of something. But this is also you need because it does play out in the papers in a very public way at a time when the public was very big on on the person involved, and so it's sir, it's an interesting look at how the things get handled by the press, particularly at that period of time in the twenties and thirties yeah. I could. I could look at professional disagreements play on the press all day every day as long as they're in the past. That's more forever, but there have been times what I've been trying to figure out what to do applied cast on next, that I've been googling things like historical
scientific disputes yeah. It is also to me really really interesting the legacy we contract. We talked about the contradiction of of medical practitioners to simultaneously criticized his work and said we're doing the same work. But it's also interesting to me. The most of them acknowledge that he had developed all of these techniques, but then they kind of wanted him to shut up and get out of the country which is whole other lake layer that whole like what is really the crux of the problem, especially when a lot of a lot of people so in favour of his work and in favour of supporting him that they were willing to Lake make sure he got to sit for board exams in a much. You know quicker process than the average person would be able to have access to, etc, and then it always gets
and by somebody being really a blister gross in some way and yeah yeah, That is the other thing about that coverage in and we talked about it. Some in the show, just the way that language has changed around orthopedic issues. This billowy of any kinds. The medical community law. there are so many headlines from that period. Talking about his work that just make you cringe ray, you look at them to pay and you realize we're still figuring a lot of things out, I'm sure in another. If the years people will cringe at all of today's headlines for being incredibly ignorance, yet a hunter was that always motion is the future. We talked about Hugo goons Bob.
organs back I'll, see or hear people say all the time I sometimes use them interchangeably just to roll with the flow and cover all basis there. We had a whole conversation that we cut out of the show that I say we are our pretty use their Casey or whoever is helping Casey with edits, cut that out for us of how to say it, yeah casual here it both ways: MIT Geese. It's one of those names that is common enough. You know in a particular area that lots of people have said a lot the different ways, so I am it it pronunciation has transcended whatever his lifetime pronunciation was sure. In my opinion, he is obviously an interesting one, but he's also interesting because there's so much that you got We bowed to do an episode on him that isn't really worth putting in and expanding it to a two fur, because it's really like boy, he sure, was nutty eccentric
and it's just more and more evidence of that. There is one thing that I didn't mention these again a member from a hard bit of evidence for it that he apparently went through a period when he was quite. young, where he gambled a lot, but he events We lost enough that he was like. Oh, I should step to tat. I had there is right up about him and Life magazine in the nineteen fifties and there's a quote in it. That made me laugh so hard because they're talking about him as a writer- and you know he did obviously write fiction but was, as we said several times, not known for being a great writer and this journalist specifically mentioning the now position that came out of his his initial modern electric series that he did to fill out pages and says to
scribe. The book as a novel is stretching the definition of that word to the screech point. You know it's cute Alice since from Switzerland, there's no crazy, very simplified, easy too. Just love trope in their like. Everyone is a very simple story to follow. Nothing. It's too confusing. There were a lot of what you said: details about him that I didn't put in. One of the things that I saw that I really enjoyed was that he didn't believe in funerals, because he's really what you say is that he doesn't believe in our current system of burying people in cemeteries, because in his view he thought that over time, people will keep dying until the entire
Has to be a graveyard, I mean he's not wrong right. He came up with this idea that we should freeze all of our corpses and shoot him into space at speeds that are calculated to remove them from our solar system. That seems May. I like to toss in your garbage in the neighbors Europe's gas here, levels of problems with that That reminds me, though, of a thing that I was reading, where there are not a lot of places in the world, I did it. I don't want to miss speak because, unlike recall, in an article that I read some stretch of time ago, but it was basically about how the idea that your loved ones,
remains, are going to be buried in this cemetery in perpetuity is not a universal idea and that there are lots of places where you, basically, if you pay rent on the the grave site and if you have no surviving relatives paying the rent on that grave site anymore, it's going to be somebody else's for that reason of, like we continue to give each person their own grave site then eventually saw grave sides. It reminds me of the jewish, far escape when it was on some there. Was one episode where Rigel, who was one of the puppet characters? What sort of having this concept of of cemetery is explained to him, and I won't quote it accurately: exam literally going from very distant memory, but he was like you can you're dead right there with you is horrified by the idea yeah and if you
future Emma eventually waste our bearing people in other places, because we have no money to have satellite cemeteries to handle it yeah well, and there is culturally how many different yeah dealing with death and what to do with remains after death, like none of these things are universal at all. That was a weirdo digression. We just went on the bed kind yeah- I am one of the things I love reading. Reading burns backs work is that you know the time he was writing a lot of his early stuff. The word technology had not been calling yet, and so it is that fine I mean to me. This is one of the day. Lights of history is seeing the ways that people came up talked around concepts that didn't have a name. Yet I mean even scientific action is hilarious and charming
This is also a thing I didn't I didn't get into. He claims I mean he came up with the word scientific action, but he also claimed that he came up with the word television and some other things. You know he was. He was not like that, I'm not afraid to be as on hype man. He made a lot claims. He made aware claims he I mean he did have a lot of insightful predictions about things. That would come to fruition, but also lots. They were completely cockamamie share. He apparently also was known to send food back in restaurants if it didn't arrive at the table in a way that he liked lake had all be pleaded perfectly and he was not afraid to send it back several times down country. That would suit me his dislike personality, but you know
I am usually to Hungary. I dont care. Fine, fine, isn't in front of me. Do I have a fork yeah? I think the only time I've ever sent something back in a restaurant like it was literally burns to the point of not being pleasing to eat any risk and not a dish that was supposed to be charged in any way rights rights other rise, even if I get something in it, not to my taste. I'm not sending it back yeah, it is also just I love sort of doing comparative reads on what much later people working in the science fiction space think about him, because it is very polarize. There are people who still sort of lost him is like this charming nut of a man who really like created this this entire. You know the concepts with his his focus on community of fandom and and this idea of science fiction
this place, or we could think about the future. But then there are other sewer leg. He was a problem in all the ways and yeah I. Why are we lauding M as this masterful amazing person, yeah, there's, there's so much gate keeping in the world of science fiction, both among like the writing aspect in some in some cases and among the phantom like from all sides, there can be a lot of gay keeping, and so the idea that somebody who was so central to establishing the yeah. That science fiction was its own genre, was like here's, the mathematical formula of what counts like yet drove me up a wall yeah well that and that it had to be predictive of the future and there is a lot of science fiction. That is not right that, but, as you know, speculates I'm on other things are or
is born of a what, if scenario of the past week, which yeah it's a widow, but then when you read as tough as we said, he would contradict himself all the time and to him. I think he was just leg, warm just spit Balin, and so he didn't see it is this big contradictory thing. He didn't even see himself real as lake, I dont think as the arbiter of all these things, he was the scaling back. This is how I am thinking about it. This is how I, but it also gets into that. the idea of a cult of personality right where there are people even now who will refer to him as like Uncle Hugo, as though he still
like a person in their lives, even though they have never met him, and he has never been part of their- you know personal or professional development, and so that's the other thing is like how much of that is him saying this is what I say and how it has to be verses, that community that he was putting together going with Hugo says, so that's the rule and rolled my eyes right. I mean this is part of the problematic aspect of things like that, and even those two hosing viewpoints we mentioned regarding changing the name to wonder stories is pretty exemplary of how problematic that can be right when everyone else that's a good voice. You're gonna get some that are not great, takes sets of bought of look. It's not say that everyone should have their own take, but you have to be
discern the good from the bad once again, thanks for spending time with us this week, if you're headed into a weekend of time off having absolutely great time and and do lots of things that bring you joy. If you don't have time off and you're working, try to find those things that bring you joy, anyway is best. You can we're cheering for you. We will be right back here tomorrow with the classic episode and on Monday, with new stories stuff, you missed in history class in the production of Iheartradio for more podcast from radio, either by her radio, have added mankind's or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This summer on next question with me, Katy Correct, I'm Sullivan, In the shortest season, with a fine summer series on books, I just
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-29.