Holly and Tracy discuss the great master gardener's work, delve into the moral implications of opulence, and weigh those against the value of the resulting art. They also discuss the nature of unconscious perception of others based on presentation.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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you have been, I mean we said this episode, but you may and that you are working on this as soon as we got back from Paris and are the first for the four several weeks after that, I would get your outline and it would be something else and at first I was like what happened to the donor and then I was like showed she'll get through it. It's gonna happen some day, while I kept ordering books Unlike it's one of those things that, because he did so much one, it's hard to Lake really figure out what you have to include and what you can cut for time like we talked a lot about his work and we didn't come so many things that he did, that I'm sure other people are like. Why did you not talk about this and my favorite because he was so prolific and also just like in some ways it fell?
very self indulgent, because it is of a two part or about something that I love so much, and that is so much about aesthetics and beauty, and we only briefly touched on, like the the moral implications of France spending that much money too the apes in particular like the gardens that he created for the crown and also like the cost of human lives. It were involved in in works like this, so because that opens up like a whole. Other may mean that becomes a whole other on its own. Talking about like why Lily the fourteenth was so willing to spend so lavishly and to us it off I think, looks very, very irresponsible, but to him he
had it in his mind, I'm not saying this is correct, but blew the fourteenth perspective. Was that one? He really did have a conscious decision at one point to make France exactly what it has come to be known as today, which is like where design and style come from, like the absolute top tiered design. Anesthetics would all be part of french cultural identity, and so he was in up from one end like really really promoting. That idea like he wanted textiles to be the best textiles to come from France. He wanted the best architects to come from France, you one of the best painters to ran sick, that was part of it, but another thing was at his ideology and again This is a little divorced from reality. Was that for France to be prosperous, France had to look prosperous. That's kind of a very
bluff I'd version, but, like he felt lake, you know if he had visiting dig it dignitaries, they had to see the most lush beautiful, stylish, expensive everything so that they could appreciate not only that France had style, but that France was secure enough to be able to afford such things, and so that would make them willing to work with France and therefore that would you know propagate more wealth in income. There are big questions about the security of France and Lake Lou, the fourteenth really love to wage war and whether he he was also you no kind of just doing. All of this is in A thing that all things they get debated forever, but it is interesting Emmy we, it is the precursor of what leads up to the mass of Louis, the sixteenth, Marie Antoinette and blankets Why they are so divorced from the common man and how badly some people are
having while they literally just like our have everything done for them in and have the best of everything. Then it's I mean that's part of my fascination with seventeen through Nineteenth century, France's like urging that transition of the ideology, I think, is interesting, I don't think it sound, but its interests of life. We have to look amazing. You know it's kind of like fake it You make it on an epic and very expensive scale and then how that gets to the point where the faking Part becomes everything and there's no actual substance behind it and your broke is a joke. oh, but it also reminds me of how, in a much much more reduced scale, when our offices moved from a part of its land said, it was mostly like a financial district with hotel. Rules and businesses, and things like that and see like a more quirky space with an old building that was being
like revitalized into this multi use space. There is this whole arguments about like what people's perception of are our work. was depending on whether we were surrounded by a bunch of bankers or whether we were surrounded by like this new, newly red, Diane Multi Use, building with a lot more variety in it. It's like, though, the weirdness of optics of what your place is and how people see because of that place. Yeah yeah I mean it. It is the kind of thing that people think about, or did they don't always think about later subconscious judgments that we make all the time based on how we see someone spending money living their life. Tat word. We were so unconscious of it. It's one of those things I I tried to be active
conscious single way way way. I can't presume this person is x Y rosy because they are like that this person a smart because their wearing a richer Tyler suit is maybe they're just in it. Who inherited money. I dont know, or maybe they are really smart theirself made and that you know you can't make those judgments but we're doing. all the time right. Subconsciously, yeah becomes a very weird thing. There's also that For me I mean I, I love the visual arts obviously talk about it on the show all the time. I always want to talk about painters and sculptors in and people who design things. There is that weird moment, weird kind of just what I was saying, before where the artifice becomes the identity of someone and like this sort of artificial life that they put together. Starts to beat lead, they believe their own hype of it, and then in a very dangerous place, would like,
on the marshes with no solid, but the fact that they do not have the Notre to build a solid foundation under them yapping. But the flip to write is that for me, I'm sure it's not the same forever when, but for me, and I know further people it. I have talked to you like when you are in some of these spaces that linotype created at great expense It is moving in a way that is hard to quantify. Describe I mean admittedly lake. I because I love this, era of french history and by love art like when we walked to the side of sigh and we saw the orangery. I just started bawling like it's so beautiful That is very moving. If I had it said Moreover, I could have spent all the time that we were in Versailles just in the gardens me too, I mean
part of that is, we had the the sort of weird good fortune of it being a drizzly day when we got there, and so we did the gardens first and no one was out there because of the rain and it wasn't heavy rain. But it was not enough that the people were worried. It would get worse after they stayed out of the gardens and we just got sprinkled on a couple times. Yeah then inside. When you visit Versailles, it is not like us, soothing leisure experience, Your hustled three rooms- and there are thousands of people with you at every second yeah. I know not an intimate feel. I had heard that it was very crowded and I was not prepared for the fact that, like you're really shoulder tissue We are with the people around you shuffling three like that. Idle shoot style, yeah yeah. So I think that's part of it right leg in the gardens. You have a little more freedom to move about and explore
and sit on your own time in your own way, and it's not that leg are right next to grow link, there's another that going on, so you can kind of stumble into these groves of illegal. Yet have I found and there's a little bit more of that sense of of exploration and discovery that makes them magic in a whole different way, even though, like who I can look at all the sculpture and painting in the How forever? But you don't get the luxury experience, what feels very luxurious just being able to do it on your own time? Sure yeah, it's fascinating, because I remember at one point I saw you and Patrick take off down the grand canal like down the the that promenade and lake in seconds it like you were three miles away, like, it was a very talking about his use of perspective. I think, can never do justice to when you see. If I may, We knew Patrick walk quickly, but I was like they did not cover three miles. I got ninety seconds, that's about it.
like here in another country, practically yeah yeah, and when you go into those little grow that really is like you have wandered into a totally separate place that is isolated from the rest of the guard. Like you, you can feel like you have just wandered into a title like us, looted. Bang. You may feel very private, yet a little part of this big big garden. You It was very, very fine that happened about half way through our trip. remember there were a few times that lake I got to know. Other people in our big grew better because they would like pop out from a path believe you gotta come over here and they wanted to show me a grove that they had found. That was, you know like a spectacular fountain with music. We didn't talk about the music of Versailles, because now, when you go there is, is music pipes
to all of these groves. Those were always intended to be musical. It was just that when Lily the fourteenth would go visit them and subsequent monarchs, they would have musicians playing live to go with the fountains instead of the pipe in music there. Here today. That's a whole other level of lake sense engagement that happens if Versailles. That is difficult to explain why What that kind of like such a delight and a beautiful thing, and you ve sort of feel like a child in that year experiencing something that is simple, the beautiful its water flying. Through the air to music, and yet it just bring such joy of its a fascinating thing, see how does this? These are the things we ve when we debate the value of all of the expensive, creating such a lavish and self indulgent thing. But also wholly Moses, we have some art that is indescribably beautiful as a consequence. I also imagine that based
what we know of listeners we very frequently after you ve done an episode on something get requests about another. similar thing son maddening, we will hear from folks asking us to talk about Lancelot Capability Brown to designed english landscape gardens, which are very, very different from the former french Garden Sab. Yes, folks are getting the that they keep ready, has actually been on my list for awhile thanks to our co worker, Christopher hoo hoo pitch them to us some years ago now I feel like yeah there is also a whole interesting thing. If you look at Marie Antoinette era, she had a portion of the ground the Versailles changed completely over from that very formal, french garden to like a little hamlet, that was my or natural, and did not have all of the man occurring in staff and that's a whole other thing to be discussed like again, the artist
of like I'm, going to make a fake far member. I will feel like a farmer, but it's kind of like the equivalent of you know, and I that part, because, if she's not really for permitting, she just wanted to wear a pretty dress and red Rousseau and talk about engaging with the natural world we didn't even get into the tree, animals the grand jury and all which was really the fourteenth kind of get away from the palace at at Versailles. And then Petites Vienna, which was originally built. Her Madame de Pompidou and then later was given to Marie Antoinette by her husband, is a smaller get away there on the grounds. There is a lot on average in the gardens are very beautiful at all of them. highly recommended. If someone has the opportunity to go, take it, I it's one of those things I want to go back to I loved are are to our group, and I thought that was an amazing experience. But I would love to go just by myself with no no
itinerary and literally, I think I can wander those gardens frayed our street yeah. I agree. Others cafe in there now, so you can, you can be fed while you under for eight hours straight anyway. Thank you for everyone for listening to myself and dull, two part under Linda stuff. You missed in history class the production of Iheart Radios House, works for more upon here. As for my, how radio busied thy heart, radio, apple pie, guests or wherever you listen to your favorite shares.
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