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welcome to stuff you, minister, history, glass, a production of Iheart radio, Callow unhappy, providing I'm crazy. They will then Molly writing this week we kicked off our podcast up were summoned anatomy and some wax models and somebody it's. But I must not for that long, because a lot of the press about her followed, I think an edition of the book that I references,

and coming out, which was called the lady is out of us to the life and work of Anna Maria Diekmann Selene, but a lot of that. The articles that have come out on sabino mainstream popular websites. Recently I've referenced back to that book, and so she hasn't been on my list for that long. But she's been somebody have been just deeply interested in that whole time, partly because the self portrait of her is so visually striking, because she's really in gown, with pearls on dressed, very beautifully and very aristocratic Lee, while preparing to dissect a brain. I really liked

How are you- and I have both talked about- how we kind of download to our spouses what we ve been working on at this point? My husband has heard me talk about so many topics that are just horrible, but I will, as I was trying to explain, kind of the condensed version of ANA Miranda months Laney. He capped expecting there to be something horrific. Happening to her like, but we see exiled because of her anatomical interest. No, she just she just got paid a lot less than it wasn't enough to live off, of which is still bad, but like not. He Expecting like up here is a striking a trauma. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. I I'm looking at a picture of her that self portrait in wax as she did and I M thinking this is another good idea for a hollow.

I hadn't! I haven't thought about that, but I agree with you: cuz your is beautiful too beautiful lake really kind of subdued dusty, pink road gown of the era, so that means lots of fun. Embellishments there's some pearls, whose good hair you Jesse to carry around a brain in a jar, the fifth it there are pictures of several of her wax pieces that you can. Pretty easily on the internet, and one of them is a series of the eye, and it's got just I the skin around the eyes, looking in different directions, it getting a sense of how that musculature all attaches, then there's one, that's just the eye itself with the muscular musculature coming off of it and every time I see it. I have this moment where I think it's a starfish I understand completely about yours it does look a little almost love crafty, em,

because of the way up up so I've I've. I need anatomy and physiology. I've never personally bene cadaver study, but I have watched video of cadaver studies being done. I don't feel partition Lee squeamish about all of this, but the anatomical Venuses Crete me out because there are like their facial expressions and their body than the fact that you are like lifting out all of these parts of the persons like pelvis and abdomen, and somehow the look on her face is weirdly ecstatic I like it. I feel like this is a model of a woman whose enjoying being brutalized in that creeps me out. I have theories gal. I have to wonder if some of it isn't just that women at this point historically

eight were often objects of lake. Ideally, would be something pretty to behold: xo they're, trying to just make them beautiful. It look like women, you would see, and paintings and art, except of course you could take them apart and look at their insides It does create a strange juxtaposition there that are very disturbing, there's really recent book with an. I think. The last couple years called the anatomical Venus. That's on just these, and I have not read it, but that does exist if people are interested, something that we didn't get into. The episode that came up in the research, though, was how bout oh idea of the sexes, was really evolving just before and during this time back when we did the episode about the lieutenant none we talked about how in that particular era, the idea of the sexes was very different from

we think of it. Now, because it was everybody thought that, like there was one sex and it was mail and women were just kind of broken man, in an so ANA Miranda. Monthly was relative We early and in this sort of more conceptualizing it has two distinct sexes. Although there were still people arguing about it in, way or the other are now, of course, they were living at a time, not many centuries. Pass that point where, more and more for in there and genesis and all kinds of other specialist Sars hey this whole binary of two sexes is like not. Surely indicative of the diversity of the way people's bodies present. So it's like to me an interesting progression and how that understanding has shifted over like five hundred year, oh yeah,

I have a confession to make, which is that I am not emotionally tall enough to ride the ride of dissected bodies. I can surgery four days but like once, you see things like this. Or those instances of installations that have toured periodically in the last several years of lake, a human body, that's kind of lake, taken apart for people, oh yeah, Cannot he had the latter needed? One idea handle it. So for me being able to look up four eggs up at a beautified face that I could pretend this painting is working a little better but it is a good thing. The way men and women are treated. I also feel like in some ways we look at this period, specifically when she was doing her work, there is this strange juxtaposition. We talked about of lake in some ways, so much more progressive in terms of a visa.

Routes for women, but in other ways of, as evidenced by the fact that these anatomical studies had to you shortly after she was. Then be very pretty also wrong, like their weird, multiple societal standards and ideologies at play, all at the same time, right, which is always what makes history as fish specifically related to sex, engender very tricky to pick apart yeah. She definitely or women in Bologna when she was living, especially if for wealthy, not as much as they they weren't wealthy, like they had more access to education that in the last other parts of Europe, but they still face a lot of sexism and we're sort of held up is like token. Lady scholars yeah behold our lady scholar, instead of just the art person, YAP Yap

I was annoyed at all the times that I found her reference. Does the lady anatomist until I realized, like that's, really how they were sort of marketing her in Bologna in the eighteenth century, continued during our week of slightly graphic things that Europe is about anatomy, We also talked about William Kevlar this week and Alfred Southwick, the invention of the electric chair in its first use. Which is a weird and difficult thing to talk about, because it also involves, as we mention at the top episode, some animal torture, which we glossed over as much as possible and domestic abuse. There were two things really really really really made me spitting nails angry. While I was researching this one is the fact that, where's defence in his initial trial focused so much on the

that till he was so pretty. Of course she was having an affair grows yeah. I didn't included in the episode itself because it does get a little bit graphic but they even asked the surgeons that worked on brain if they thought she was pretty and one of the surgeons who is was considered like an expert in that field like an early brain surgeon. Big and had been the man the described, trying to pull fragments of bone out of her brain tissue in the hopes that they could somehow save that brain tissue, which of course, ultimately didn't work, Kind of had a great come back but I'm sure it was because he was astonished to even be asked that Ray something along the lines of not the way I saw her lake gas he would even be question as to whether he thought this woman he was trying to save, who was obviously a mess, was pretty just horrified.

Well in it. It reminds me of lake when, when women are assaulted and what they were wearing is used as part trial very similar. The whole thing did become very victim. Blame me in incomers defence I understand, of course, this was you know a hundred fifty years ago, but it really is leg startling to me that that was there take was it they asked everybody how pretty she was. In my mind, that is monstrous. The second thing that really horrifying thick Anthea research is that once that electrocution too, place and of course, when horribly badly, the way that Kepler was talked about in the press became much more sympathetic and they referred to him as that poor wretch and light that poor man and an eye sand that that was also framing it to kind of maximize the. Since

nationalism of it and make it seem like this had really vanity, terrible terrible plan from the start as a consequence, like the fact that he had so violently killed his at that point with And called his common law way, even though he was married to someone else kind of falls off of the story ran, it does not become about how he brutalized someone and he becomes poor victim that nobody is giving the same benefit of the doubt. You know how pretty was that electric chair like there's now it's a very weird thing and those two things together just me. You yeah, I won. I like that

phenomenon is also something that still exists where you know, if, if, if someone is convicted of a crime and their punishment is regarded as being excessive, somehow like that will earn sympathy, whereas the person. He was the victim of a crime, is sort of written out of a story. Yeah I mean I I you know where anybody stands on the death penalty is, is the in whatever they make peace within their own heart. I, sir, we do not want anyone to be treated in humanely or cruelly but is it really does bother me, particularly in a situation of such horrifying domestic abuse, that the thing that got him they're kind of gets written out and that victim never got the same right kind treatment? It's it's. Definitely

balanced in that regard. That, as the only thing is that I feel it, people don't talk about Sal. Quick at all. When you hear about the war of currents, They talk about him as as sending Edison letters? But you really don't know his whole background there. A whole lot of discussion in you know any of the the various films or whatever that have been made around it. You don't find out, like his whole, weird thing where he and his friends were electrocuted stray dogs, to try to figure out their scientific method that I mean it's difficult to talk about him think about, but it's an important part of the story. They gets kind of whipped past you re because those two figures, Kevlar and Southwick both are so eclipsed by the Edison Tesla Western

how's portion of it, which I understand like you, can't tell the whole story all the time in the amount of time given, but it just that's why I wanted to do this. One is unpleasant as it is in many regards yeah, If you would like to write as some pleasant email we would love to, but one of the reasons I put a very pleasant one of the other that episode You can do that, and history Pike s it. I hurt radio dot com. You can also find us on social media. As MR history, we would love for you to subscribe to the I guess you could do that on the I hurried EU, app apple, podcast or wherever it is listen PMS than district class. Production of Iheart radio for more plug gaps. For my heart, radio visit by her radio have added my cans or wherever you listen to your favorite shares. This episode is brought to you by Maloney Cook,

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