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Belle Starr: A Bad Rap for the Bandit Queen, Part 2

2012-04-02 | 🔗

After Jim Reed's death, Belle eventually married Sam Starr. Rumors circulated: Was Belle a barfly or a mom? In 1883, Belle and Sam served 9 months in prison for stealing horses. Tune in to learn how the Bandit Queen set out to turn her reputation around.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
here's the thing saving money with geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball because there's always there who joined your game he never passes the rock he constantly rex theories and who completely you and then put his hands up and say no foul no foul with geico it's easy switch and save on car insurance no the vacant fake an ankle sprain because you're absolutely exhausted so which in save with geiger it's almost better than sports my name is damaging i've been working as a correspondent an interviewers since i was thirteen and now seventeen i am so honoured to be the youngest person to have our own tat cast an eye her radio its cause let's be real with sammy j in depth and unfiltered conversations with celebrities activists athletes and influence will cover topics where curious about topics my guests are passionate about an topics many of us are just too afraid to talk about i get past the fluff too
real we go there and its fun pretty crazy and very revealing listen to us we re always sammy j on the radio up apple part gas or wherever you get your part cas locomotion stuff you must in history class from house report how come hello and welcomes the pie cast i'm doing a job the boarding and i'm scared out it and we're picking up here again with the story of fellow star one of the most poorest female outlaws of the old west has been called the bandit queen and the female jesse james and she's been crowded robbing stage coach is holding up ranchers while dressed as a man and leading own band of outlaws but as we do in the last episode a lot of these stories about her may have just come from the public's desire for intrigue old adventure tales of the wild west regardless
these stories blood into a number of biographies and so called official accounts of her life became true almost but more recent account of cod directed a lot of these stories for example we mentioned in the last at said that some people have thought that bells daughter pearl was bothered by the famous outlaw coal younger and sources like encyclopaedia britannica say that this was quote probable but then other work margaret roused biography bell of the last which have looked into letter than court records the sort of things further that most likely not the case so what we ve been doing as recounting bells life and some of those better known stories and the differing takes on them and what energy is looking to where some of the wilder ones came for maybe how they came about in the hopes are that perhaps by understanding her character and seen what primary sources can cooperate with some of these stories you can at least get caught
to what her real story truly is so well rehash part want a little but so far we talked about her childhood her work by during the civil war and her family harbouring of our laws and taxes in that tumultuously marriage to the outlaws jim reed and what we really seen from all of this is that even if bell herself was an account she was always really spunky issues an outspoken girl with a quick temper and she associated very closely with a lot of outlaws though already it's kind of easy to see a personality would have lent itself quite nicely to this whole persona of the bandit queen it it make fun when we stuff in part one it was august of eighteen seventy four and getting another taste of that spontaneous a man named john morris had just killed red and then asked bell who at this point we're going by her given name my remit bow to come found the body so that he could collect the bounty
so my enable shows up sure enough that she looks reads body and says that she's never seen him before and then told nor s in your member this dramatic quote from the end you will never get back county so with some what's going on here maybe some strange loyalty to read or an ethic our laws against the law exactly so it's unclear story is true but either way plenty of people could identify read for morris so we ve got his share of the bologna after all though not the full amount since he didn't bring and reads full gang after reading though myra may well really did struggle for awhile jim staff had left her pretty much broke except for that land her father had given her and it was hard for a woman in this is to make a living on her own too and she had the kids to think about food she ran to her farmland and briefly tried to push pearl into a stage greer because she had seen other children become quite successful that way little girl performers in particular were very popular in the frontier town though my room belt
pearl two dollars and rolled her in school and acting class was thereabout pearl ended up getting sick and so the doktor recommended she avoid the stress of proof farming in the meantime though myra may both father had passed away in her mother fold the farm and move to dallas with eddie though it really theme leg hard times emily according to arouse work some bell star biographers paint this time in dallas as a really wild time for her when she's done oliver time guzzling de in saloons and using her feminine whilst a scam money off of unsuspecting wealthy men she also said thirdly caused a lot of public disturbances shooting guns in the street much like she did when she was a kid but ral points out that local newspapers never once mention my renee bell in conjunction with events like these even though pretty much covered everything that was going on at the time and would either bela stories to make them more comfortable so it seems unlikely
lee that this really happened since she sort of conspicuously missing from these sorts of account one indefinitely offer seems like my remained always mostly focused on pearl during this time in dallas because after was clear the stage courier wasn't gonna happen she sold her father and she set off on a tour of visits to old carthage friends in missouri and are confined kansas and during the only she ended up leaving pearl for a time to stay with a long time friend along the way eighteen seventy nine or so she gone to joplin missouri and that gambler bruce younger coleopters cousin she found exciting and they started up a fling their release was actually pretty scandalous to not just because they were unmarried and because bruce was considered kind of a good for nothing sort of guy but also as they were staying at the same hotel and some people spend rumors even staying in the same room the hotel
we are however confirm that my or maybe i did in fact have a room of her own and her mom and sometimes even pearl would come and visit or their whatever the exact the situation was though she so i got tired of it decided to move into indian territory and visit her late husband business associate tom star and bruce younger accompanied her according to rule must have told her at something he would marry her release my room bell expected this happened because records show that she went ahead and change pearls last from red to younger but after a while bruce just got bored of in territory and headed offer north kansas and according who wrote the count my remained always just furious others because he'd essentially really her reputation that mean they had travelled there together by taking off without marrying her sorrow a popular story of how she got back at him saying myra may they followed him to kansas on horseback went to
house and got a marriage license and then she found a justice of the peace and track down bruce holding a gun to his head told him she'd below his brains out if you didn't marry her right away in front of twenty witnesses so of course bring along with a thrill shotgun wedding exact and after that she ordered a beer every one or beer in general for everyone having shorter keg or something and then just took often stay for the party or soft took off back to indian territory so that conflict and of an outlandish story the type of thing that would be more legend side of velvet stars life but there really is akard of the two of them getting married in kansas on may fifteenth eighteen eighty so carried out can happen she obviously wasn't too hung up on bruce though because just three weeks later there's record of my thou meringue someone else and that's it star the good looking
new three year old three quarter cherokee son of tom star whom we mentioned earlier she was probably thirty at the time that she lifted her age and the cherokee nation court records as twenty seven she also currently completely ignored the fact that she had just married various younger her last name is listed in the marriage records as real still and it was after she marry and she started going by the name the star so because of them cherokee status they could of course apply for a free parcel of land on indian territory which you couldn't do as well person unless you were married to a cherokee though they settled a bordering the canadian river that was surrounded by cliffs that contains several caves and it was to rout known as the younger is banned because they hungary's had gone there two strategies during the civil war although other sources chest tom star named at that because he really admired they are gang that's kind of strange hypothesis to me just because his wife dated two
brothers yeah although if you remember from the previous podcast the whole call younger thing was just a room he may not have been too upset him anything didn't even know about the navy he didn't so the thing about young husband was that it was also seventy miles from fort psmith arkansas is the nearest the eu s court which becomes significant later on in the pied cast nay moved into we'll cabin there and they set up this nice life for themselves sam tended cattle and horses and grew corn and hunted game and really filled that responsible manner when roland dallas life that jim red never really dead if you remember he was just more focused on now and wasn't come kept him on the rhine and was really around and so sam and asylum thou they brought pearl have to live with them and even though bell had acquired this until it sort of life bell didn't stay completely out of trouble now much like her parents home in texas fan
though younger spend whom became kind of refuge almost four outlaws jesse james who is one of the first to hide out with them he stay with them for a couple weeks while there was a tender than dollar bounty on his head james ended up dying not long after that after taking a gunshot to the back and according to rule rumours of his state younger span got out after his death and this is really added to bells reputation as an outlaw herself after you entertain jesse james i mean what are you gonna do but belt didn't necessarily want to be thought of in that way you didn't want to be connected to somebody like jesse james at least publicly she it or wrote quote on the canadian river i hope to have the remainder of my life in peace short term i live very happily with my little girl and husband but it became noise about that i was a woman of notoriety from texas
from that time on my home and actions have been severely criticised my home became famous was an outlaw ranch long before i was visited by any of the boys who are friends of mine allowing we have some exciting news yeah i am while we excited
people will have another opportunity to watch we cry at art yeah you set out so calm and it's not a calm situation at all our trip to paris last year was really successful so we're doing another similar trip this year but this time to rome in florence its may fourteen through twenty first twenty twenty and like last time it is with a company called defined destinations who is playing out this whole trip for us yeah and during the week long trip we are going to see some of the great art that we have talked about on the show many times including michelangelo's david we are going to go to tuscany we're gonna visit see peters basilica we are going to the sistine chapel so it's going to be a fantastic trip even get the whole list of places that we are going and information about looking at defined destination
dot com scroll down to the roman foreign strip was stuffy miss than history glass or come over to our social media we have posts about it there too it seems like you to be easy but it's not just getting out of bed and getting your day started trying to accomplish everything you need to do in your day that to do list as a lot easier when you're getting news stories music to lift your mood in preparing for the day ahead get connected to the things that make you laugh and make you think or make you want to reach out and share with a friend every morning with us it's elvis joanne in the morning show listen to us on cue one or two or anywhere in the world on the iheart radio app those own behaviour didn't always reflect this desire for peace vow even really sounds like that's what she wanted in the spring eighteen eighty two for example she got involved in kind of a shady situation involving horses the exact details
the situation as you might imagine with the topic of this nature they differ quite a bit depending on what source you're looking out that basically beilin sam corralled some of their horses on a neighbours land and so the neighbour realise that a couple of the horses they had belonged to other people who lived in the neighborhood and he pointed that out to them but stamina didn't listen and didn't really returned the horses either didn't react in an innocent kind of way like what a mistake by the situation of these backer let me explain why these horses look exactly like these other pupils horses no none of that so by july thirty four eighteen eighty two balance and were charged with horse stealing fan november seventh eighteen eighty two they both appeared and district court at fort smith and their trial four february or march of eighteen eighty three and a half we mentioned in the bass reeves podcast hanging judge isaac see parker presided over their trial he got
scary nickname if you'll remember from the tough sentences that he's to hand out please go easy on balanced sam since it was their first conviction foes them was sentenced to twelve months and bell two to six month terms in the house of correction in detroit and founded mostly hard labor while he was locked up a bell really became a model prisoner she helped tutor the other female inmates who were pursuing an education the sense of course she was very well educated according to aren't article in wild west which we mentioned in the previous path she even the warden into making her his quote assistant felt she did pretty well for herself ass she was in prison but both famine bell ended up having their sentences shortened to nine months and they were really around christmas eighteen eighty three so after being convicted of something as furious worse dealing bell really didn't want get in trouble like that again and she could have made a promise to her daughter pearl that she wasn't gonna go
into any trouble like that again in fact she sent pearl a letter before a serving her sentence that then i shall be away from you a few months baby and have only this consolation to offer you that never again will i be placed in such humiliating circumstances and we now have she thinks a little bit of pearls father to and how he was so absent from the family could see was getting in trouble and didn't wanna be another parent like the urine and maybe also that she's thinking a little bit of her family name airmen remember she came from this well to do kind of southern family and maybe a lincoln s i've been locked up now i want to change my ways so when belgium of prison she really did seem to do her best to keep the promise tom star had the younger is banned for them and she and sam took care of this planting and they brought both kids pearl and eddy up to live with them bell even planted a flower garden and she was also a model neighbour according to rule she was known for attending to the second her area even people show
he had had altercations workpeople shouldn't really like that much she would rush to their side of something was wrong and really help out where ever she could she stopped restless wild side to her though she would apparently take frequent trips friends to satisfy that and she couldn't connect with the other women who lives in their neighborhood that was kind of one disconnect that she had with everyone around her because they weren't as educated as her so well t one of the women coming to visit her and chop for a while she would sometimes just i guess had out the back door with a book hide somewhere until they were had gone away and of course she also still had a bit of a soft spot for outlaw she really admire them for the way that they live life in their own terms and they were always always welcome to visit in our homes though if she thought our coming she wasn't heading out the back to her with a book but living like this bell men to stay out of trouble for at least a year but then trouble cod
there again in the form of the outlawed john middleton and he was wanted for horse theft and murder and found his way to younger is banned and bell had probably him through her earlier travels maybe in arkansas even in milton hiding out around bells property until about april eighteen eighty five and then when the stars cabin raided that sprang middleton realises this too dangerous to stay there i mean if you start yet too much a reputation as an outline pointed out the logging into come there to the bell came up with a pretty clever plan to get middleton out of the area she would take off on one of her trips to arkansas that was how the plan was going to be taken her along with her and they travel by covered wagon and certain would hide in the back of the wagon salmon eddie were to travel along behind them for at least part of the journey and then when the coast
clear pearl would lend middleton her horse and he would take off so breathing well as planned at first but then littleton somehow managed to offend pearl they got an argument and she would not loan him her horse so bad the last minute had to track down another horse for him and ended up sorry old mare that was blind in one eye not a good get away no so as you would imagine middleton is not happy about this at all but he took the horse and fled anyway now whore covered in mud and still wearing pearl saddle apparently she wouldn't loan and the horse but she would lead him her saddle was still spot it a few days later without the rider after us milton's body was found he drowned trying to cross swollen river on the horse i also discovered something that would mean even more trouble for bell the person who had her that horse that sorry mare was not the owner it was
when horse stolen one eyed horror so bell was charged with larceny and a warrant was issued for harassed in january eighteen eighty thinks she ended up turning herself in fort smith and her trial with that for september and these events they just stoke the rumour surrounding bell according to rouse buck newspapers had a field day with the situation and we're coming up with all kinds of theories about her including pretty fallacious ones that she had been middleton mistress than that she ran of cattle thieves but in the meantime thing am who seem third domestic hello earlier and that that wasn't really helping matters very much has already been implicated in the hold up of a u s mail hack and then in february eighteen eighty six he was accused being one of three men who robbed several farm settlement so again a winner unified another one of the three the three you rob these farm settlement as a war
and dressed as a man specifically as bell star so bell suddenly had some heat honor she's wanted her husband's wanted sam managed to evade the authorities for a while i mean they were in general ban but remember they have these key those keys all around them to hide and so he somehow managed to get away every time they come around looking for them was arrested for the crime in mid may and its while she was in full psmith entering her not guilty plea for this crime that she kicked off another legend about herself she had her photo too that may with a murderer called blue duck courting to both arouse work and are not article this is really the only time she ever bet blue duck but the fact that their in this vote but today i gave biographers an excuse to link her to him suggest she may have been his mistress and that she
even retained an attorney who helped him avoid the death sentence and i couldn't help wondering here since i end up mentioning lend some doubt in so many of these were held last at the third with things remind me of em blue doc is is of course the famous murderer and the kidnappers some doubt and i wondered a little bit if maybe this blue dock with some sort of inspiration for the character that may be likely and i think it's also easy to see how even the sheep no this person and another again it's an affiliation with an outline of affiliation within notorious character even through just picture that helped bag you bells take one and our law of a different sort and maybe then some of the earlier men she'd been hanging out with me or worse oreo worth more disturbing work psychotic kind of sword just i note there was another famous photo taken around this time that of her wearing a writing costume sitting side saddle on a horse and a few google
sorry you may actually see that's pretty interesting photo to look out but thou her own legal matters to attend to of course and cheered at this then indicted for two crimes and how to stand trial for both over the next couple of months wasn't convicted in either ultimately that initial horse stuff that she went to prison for was the only thing that she ever serve time for but she had some pretty serious family matters to deal with it when she returned to indian territory and found them still trying to avoid the authorities had been shot and badly wounded and she finally convinced him to turn himself in thinking that it would just be safer if he did so but before his trial date actually came around got into a confrontation with the same neighborhood initially gotten him and bell and trouble for forest daft and famine the name ended up shooting each other dad december seventeenth eighteen eighty thick so that with the big boys to battle not just because she lost her husband but
famine the picture she no longer have a legitimate claim to her land but she really liked her and she loved the home that they'd built there and she really wanted to stay till she had to think of a creative ways following that problem and she did just the answer was marrying twenty four year old bill july i'm still his name isn't jim july or jim star i think he went by different aliases are nicknames and he was a creek indian who was dotted son of tom star that's it of all of those problems though her kids were going through some staff as well her son who is almost seventeen when bell remarried didn't accept turn your husband at all i think that he had connected with sound and when this new guy came into the picture whose only a few years older than him he he just wasn't having it and pearl dating a young man that belgian approve of because his family was wealthy so that created i have another issue in
shoe in which bound doesn't really come up looking that great will now in and that deal with pearls we got out of hand because when the boy asked for a prompt hand in marriage bell turned him down and then sent pearl away to visit friends and then while pro was gone she concocted a fake letter to the boy from pearl thing pearl had married she pearl had married somebody else and fine pearls name to it though tricking this kid he ended up being so hurt he went off and married another girl hey listeners i wanted to tell you about a new podcast from my heart radio called the women hosted by rose red it fascinating and deep dive interview show where rose talks to change makers in disruptors and she finds out what really drives them so she will ask each of them what was your first stand and how do you navigate success and failure and really what's the cost of fighting for others
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crazy time we're living in and i know you probably do too season of my podcast next question with me katy correct i sit down with people at the centre of the issue shaping the world around us like the impact it has on our health and on the environment why maternal mortality rate in the united states is so high and how the twenty many presidential candidates plan to improve the lives of every day americans i hope you'll join for these fascinating conversations on this can season of next question subject i've and listen every thursday on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever get your things chairs learning about her former boyfriends marriage really crushed pearl but eventually she and this man learned what had happened and they saw each other a few times secretly pearl ended up
pregnant and leaving home to live with her red family because doll was so angry she wanted her to give up baby because the whole point was that she wanted to marry someone else she wanted her to marry someone with money someone who had a future so just think this is interesting because throughout those left story this seems to me of her redeeming qualities is that she loves her kids especially pearl it seems you know she's really devoted another that this story just make sure seem really controlling and kind of diabolical yet got out of hand clearly that trouble with law kept on following them too belle heard more than just these family problems to worry about she tried to avoid that june of eighteen eighty seven builds why was arrested and indicted for horse theft and in july of eighteen eighty eight her son eddie was charged with the same thing those everybody with he was an outlaw now they weren't is harbouring them rave means belle was renting out the land near younger than to various farmers she'd end
to a rental agreement with mr edgar watson but then later through his wife that he was wanted from murder and florida and at this she really was not interested in harbouring random fugitives anymore especially ones that weren't part of her family or her friends because she didn't want to face arrest retrial herself so she tried to back out of the steel watson but then already accepted payment from him he would not budge so finally sort of obliquely or maybe not so obliquely threatened him saying quote i dont see in the united states officers would trouble you but the florida officers might we did it watson was furious and he did leave he settled on another farm nearby that he was very very upset about death and then on february second eighteen eighty nine bell accompanied her husband part of the way the for its mouth where he was going to stand trial for those horse deaf charges and after
a little shopping she headed back home the next day stopping at a neighbours place for a bit to eat and socialize lawnmower after she left members how she had it back toward younger span on horseback and when she turned on to the river away in that would take her back home she was shot at least twice causing her to fall from her horse neighbours discovered her and came to her side but she died air on the lame most people of course suspected watson of being the one who shot bell he asked there were no witnesses around so there was nobody the shooting happened right near the farm where he was living at the time there were even try from the scene that lead toward his cabin but the trail ended before they got to the buildings we couldn't definitively prove according to rule the murder weapon later on even turned out to be one of his guns that ultimately even though watson was jailed for the car
he had his lawyers help and was able to convince the judge of the evidence was completely circumstantial there were no this is around so there was nobody to prove otherwise there are a few other potential aspects too including july bell had supposedly caught him having an affair with a charity stone wall erected around those grave and there was gotten so rough with with their for her any imperil were both unhappy because of fights that she'd had with both of them obviously pearl had the whole relationship situation and the baby that wasn't accepted into her family they were their fur bell in the end there was a funeral for her to which the families ro outlaws came to pay their respects mean even though she was a controversial figure he had lot of friends and a lot of people who came to a funeral later pearl a stone wall erected around those grave and it was a headset
red should not for her the bitter tier nor give the hearts of vein regret tis but the casket that lies here the jim that filled it sparkles yet so after belts gath her fame really started to spread far and wide and pretty quickly too ral notes that it started with a bitch whereas sent by the for its mouth newspaper the elevator to several newspapers in the eastern united states than many of the papers is ignored the obituary you know who's this randomly from the west but the new york times ran and under the headline quote a desperate woman killed parts of a red bell is the wife of coal younger jim star which is spelled incorrectly second husband was shot down by the side of bell less than two years ago
belle star married call younger directly after the war but left him and joined a band of outlaws that operated in indian territory she had been arrested for murder and robbery a score of times that always manage to escape so that definitely built up the band legends and things it's kind of spiral from there and editor and publisher named richard k fox saw than europe obituary got interested and by eighteen eighty nine he'd written a paper bag called bell star the bandit queen or the female jesse aims and most now seem to consider foxes work at having been largely fictional lies for years a lot of people regarded it as biography writers including william harmon who wrote a book about judge parker in eighteen ninety eight even used foxes as a source material for their own accounts about life later on to movies including the nineteen forty one film bell star compounded this sensationalize take actually if you look at pictures of bell started
find that side found one and then a lot of movie pics s final though in the nineteen eighties researchers started trying to get at her real story you know what was behind this obviously fiction obituary in the later admittedly fictional eyes accounts of her work and in our view our descendants and looked into legal record fan letters for clues in trying to find out what really happened and it's still kind of hard to get quite it who she was but it seems even if she wasn't truly an outlaw queen she certainly did have an outward she had a potential she did it seem like see had conflicting desires to be a ranch wife and be abandoned queen and i think that's gonna summed up in and i quote that i like from down she gave to our rapporteur a couple years before her death she said i regard myself as a woman whose seen much of life and i think
no matter what true and what section about her that's kind of hard to deny violence is almost the kind of person who you like to imagine there are some of these accounts that will just never know about i mean it does a person's legend if there's still a little obscure after all of this research that can put into them it's very true well that's all about all we have on those life on those stories life if you would like to i don't know maybe add your own bell star stories to the mix or give us your best fictional eyes you count of bell star that we haven't looked into were mentioned yet or that we are favorite movie of the wild west we retire in about westerns earlier today i am curious as to when the people like because i'm always wondering which ones i should check out watch a lot of my guy you will need to check out the bell starman we'll have to check out the bell or maybe actually haven't seen that so
you have any suggestions like that forest we're just any suggestions that all maybe you don't have anything with wild west but you just want to request a different sort of episodes feel free to write us we are at history plant cast a discovery dot com or you can look up on facebook and we're on twitter it missed in history and appropriately enough for a story about a woman who was on the run from a rural life we do have an article on bounty hunting oh you could imagine again bell i don't know do you remember the bounty you can think of that will you read our article how bounty hunting by searching for it on our homepage w w w got housetop works i must stress the scarecrow coralie and this is the peat and sebastian pod catches is a show with just two
as we explore them as promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow the house for a downloaded today on ideas i'm only subversion man escargot p coralie and this is the peat and sebastian pod catches a show two guys hey i'm comedian p coralie and i don't believe this comedy gold listen to the sebastian show on i heard radio at apple podcast casper wherever you dear young rockers upon cast coming of age
but finding a home in rock music and learning to flourish in your own weird way it's also a series of letters of advice to my younger self ass she navigates ashes adolescence seals with social inside he body issues and relationships and discovers a transformative power during wrapper comes from double elvis productions is created a host of unequal citizen and executive produced by jake brennan of disgrace land listen to dear young rocker on the heart radio app apple pod costs or wherever you get your podcast
Transcript generated on 2020-02-04.