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John Dalton’s Anomalous Color Vision

2021-01-20 | 🔗

John Dalton is far more famous for his work in atomic theory. But he wrote one of the first thorough descriptions of what he called “anomalous vision” – meaning that he realized he wasn’t perceiving color the same way as other people. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode is brought. You buy discovery plus there's finally, a streaming service where you can watch everything you want to watch when you're, not watching sports discovery plus has whatever you're into all in one place. It's the perfect compliment to your streaming library, with the best shows from your favorite brands, like HDTV Food Network Discovery, channel and more plus x. of originals. You won't find anywhere else discovery, plus its best value and streaming available? Now? U s only what to explore! a former newspaper, editor and Minnesota insurance salesmen have in common all wanted to be the first to reach the north pole, I'm cat long signs at our mental loss and the host of the quest for the North Pole, a new podcast launching January fifteenth about our insatiable desire to explore the mysteries of the arctic and stand at the top of the world. I heart radio is number one for podcast, but don't take our word for it. Listen to the quest for north pole every Friday on the Iheart radio up or wherever you get your protests welcome too
a few missed in history, glass, a production of Iheart radio hello, unwelcome depart cast, I'm homely fry and arbitrary be reopened. Tracy. I bet this happen to you. I know it happened to me like you must have. this moment is a child where you thought you were being very insightful. I know I certainly did where I was like how I know that what I see is the same thing as other people see how this exact- yes, I also ask my mind when I was like mom: how do how do we know that? What I see as green is the same thing as what you see as green and my mom Oh mom would see little children did not always have a lot of patience for weird questions and she was like its same
that's right to drag my bomb in any way of a mile away. They really form of our creativity and attentive to our, but yet, as was the case for I liked, I just asked her into question. She was not prepared for questions here. Is the thing I asked the same question of my father, who I do. not now- and I dont know that he knew at the time nazi color the way so he was to describe the eggs- and I just remember- I mean I- was fairly like seminary- already kind of Montenegro's his leg I'm going nowhere, I'm out so maybe just saying Green is agreed with a really a better route, because that led to a lot of confusion in our lives for a moment until we finally put the pieces together. And really what happened was there and I don't mean to drag my father but like he was courier, military, so now retired, but his clothes
like sort of prescribed for Sir, when he stopped being constantly on active duty. Certain picking out his clothes, some things bouquet readily apparent, which is that is that go together. My do yes, he looked pretty are practically the same color. Oh, we should address this right. That's why we never nail for years when you're wearing leg means Emma PLAID sure in off time and then a uniform nervously time. It would never come up. Now. We learned This curiosity about whether other people see the way that you see is really drives a lot of scientific discovery. Are you as somebody who was curious and did a lot of scientific discovery, but in the case of this subject who was very well known and respected in his day, he just didn't think about how he or any one else saw color until he kind stumbled into it, while studying
hence in realising that his vision might be different from other people and as John DOE and really John Dullness, far more famous for his. in atomic theory and which build the foundations of of organic chemistry, but he also wrote one of the first really thorough descriptions of what he called anomalous vision, meaning, He realized he was not perceiving color in the same way as other people and his disguise kids are very entertaining we're going to read some of them. So today we will talk a little bit about his life, but mostly about this sort of pocket. His scientific work, where he made brief foray into exploring the world of photo receptors and color perception, although he didn't use those words for it Colorblind myth is a term. That's falling out of favour because it's not really accurate Colorblind suggested somebody, can't see color at all, but most people who have historically been diagnosed with color blindness can see colors. They just see them differently, so different
color vision or color vision deficiency. coming more preferred terms, I feel, like I see people describing themselves as colorblind still quite a lot since the something that's evolving Worse still came in at the beginning of the scientific community. Shifting to these different terms, just in its really about clarity more than anything else. Right like no, you do see We'll will talk about one exception, but just differently, so we need to make a clearer term for it. That's not mislead, skin color region deficiency is the Inn. Nobody to distinguish specific, colors, red, green and blue and to be dying most as colorblind, historically or color vision deficient. Now, a person only needs to happen an inability to distinguish one of these colours, but it is possible for someone who has color vision deficiency to be unable to distinguish all three
so in your retina you have cells called rods which perceive light and then three types of cells call. Cones cones are really the important factor here. They are the photo receptive cells that enable us to perceive color. The human retina contains six million pounds red sensing cones make up sixty percent of the total number of coal cells, green sensing, cones, make up thirty percent and blue something tones make up the remaining ten percent. So have I your cone cells are functioning normally, you are said to have try chromosome, meaning you could see three try of these colours and they combine to to create standard vision but it is also possible to have die chromosome with only two types of councils present or functioning or even motto: Cromer see where only one type of cone is functioning monochrome, as he is a little bit turkey, because it can also be used to describe a scenario where none of a person's cones are functioning in a person
HU as motto: chromosome may have other vision issues as well and motto: Cromer seed that we decide about with no cone function it's kind of the one variation in all of this, where the color blind label would be actually pretty accurate because everything to them appears not in the rainbow of color but as a shade of gray, most of the time die. Cromer see a manifests itself in a way that a person can't see a difference between red and green and die. Chromosome of this nature is broken down into separate classifications, based on which types of cones do and dont work. In a person's retina crowed Nokia describes a state of not being able to see red and uterine opium is a case where the red cones function, but the green cones do not blue yellow color deficiency, which is a little rarer, is similarly broken down in the classifications based on specific nature in a given person. So someone with a lack of blue cones is said to have
try to Nokia and if they have blue cones, but reduce sensitivity that color it is actually described as trade anomaly. An color vision deficiency can fall on spectrum. Some people have diminished stability to distinguish read from Greece, for example, but there are able to see difference within specific shades of these colours. Yes, I see. No people can't hit the lighter tones of the darker tones get real muddy, but they can see different shades. It's it's Allah manifest in many different ways And in the United States, an estimated five to ten percent of the population have some form of color vision deficiency. Usually this gets tested for when people are and more boys and girls have colored vision, deficiency and the percentage ships based on re. So there was a twenty fourteen steady. They caught sight of a lot.
This is published in the journal of them. Ology and it had taken studies of the color region of four thousand California children, ranging in age from three to six In this study, it was found that, among the girls, less than half a percent of them exhibited signs of color vision deficiency regardless of race, but in boys the numbers were different. Six percent The white boys in the study were diagnosed with color vision deficiency. Three per cent of the asian boys had some form of color vision deficiency. It was found in fewer than three percent of them. Tina boys and less than two percent of black boys. Genetically boys are more likely to have red green color risen deficiency because they only need to inherit from their mother. It is recessive characteristic, that's associated with the ex chromosome. So if a female in here
it's the train from her mother, but not her. Father should generally have normal color vision. She only has that when Ex chromosome, but then she capacity onto her own children, I miss is different from blue, yellow color vision deficiency, which is the dominant characteristic, and so that only needs to be inherited from one parent and it is not linked to a person's sex wish, I'm just going to say these are related to sex and not a gender. That's Its thing need yeah we're going with kind of that. Twenty fourteen studies, separation of boys and girls, which simplifies the whole discussion in his, is sex assigned at birth, not necessarily how, if they did, that would be fascinated if they did the same exact test today and how they would break it out, because its things have shifted a bit. Does anybody know of any studies similar to that going on today? I am very curious, but here's the thing probably wondering how we figured all of this out,
Emily Eighteenth century, this idea of people perceiving color differently than most humans are certainly not unknown. King George, the third Example: reportedly discussed this with an english novelist, Fanny Bernie at court in seventeen, eighty five and there were some please about what caused colorvision anomalies published in Germany in the late one thousand seven hundred, but the first systematic analysis of color vision deficiency appears in one thousand, seven hundred and ninety three at least the first that we know of, and that brings us to the person we mentioned at the top of the show. John Dalton John Dalton was born in early September. One thousand seven hundred and sixty six is actual date of birth is either September fifth or September. Sixth, his parents Joseph Dalton and Deborah Green up Dalton were quakers, his father made a living is a weaver thousands, dolphins had three children who lives, who adulthood and John was the youngest of them and ass. A child John attended, a Quaker school.
and that's cool changed hands. When John was twelve. John flesh the man who had been running it gave it to John Dalton older brother, Jonathan Dalton and enjoy, and enlisted Johns assistance in this new role and thus set John on a path an educator just Canada lights me that they had a job and a John it makes me giggle as well guarded Jonathan expanded their new careers by taking over a schooling, Candle England. When John was just fourteen the larger operation than the Quaker Grammar School, they had been running at it included students who boarded as well as day students the stones, five dozen students in all and John what sort of learning on a job he was studying, with scholars to learn: math, latin Greek and science to stay ahead of his students and to be able to speak on the subjects
their curriculum and keep in mind the kitten he's like fourteen fifteen at this keeps so he is taking in a lot of information. He stated that job for a dozen years and then at the age of twenty seven John moved on to a new professional posed as a mathematics teacher at New College, and this was in Manchester And we found all this a little bit frustrating though, because his workload in that job prevented him from having time to pursue his own scientific study, so he switched gears and decided that he would become a private tutor said that he could manage his own time in a way that would enable to carry on with his side. Work at this point has work outside of his daily teaching task was focused largely on meteorology. He had been publishing articles from the subject for several years, but he kept studying other sciences as well at all. It was through the
studies that he wound up. Writing a paper that expounded on the idea that not everyone saw colours in the same way. So this was not. The first time the mention of non standard, color vision, appeared in print you said earlier, surely color fish deficiency has been in place, as long as humans have existed in even before Dalton, there had been some mentions of it, including a write up of a man named Thomas Harris that was published in philosophical transactions and that described Harris's inability to distinguish colors, which was published in one thousand seven hundred and seventy seven we're going to come back. Here s an we'll talk first, more about John Dalton, but before we do all of that, we're gonna pause for a brief sponsor break Episode is brought to you by discovery plus there's, finally, a streaming service where you can watch everything you want to watch. Discovery plus has whatever you're into all in one place, from buzzer, beating cook offs and puppies playing football to epic reading,
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John Dolphin presented his paper, which was too extraordinary facts relating to the vision of colors, with observations by Mr John Dalton at me, gestures, literary and philosophical society on October thirty. First, seventeen ninety form he enjoyed Society upon moving to Manchester and ass scientific papers. Go this way kind of unique in that dealt in himself is really the subject of the paper, or at least his vision was that text opens with quote, it has been observed that our ideas of colors sounds tastes, Et Cetera, excited by the same object may be very different in themselves.
Without our being aware of it. He goes on quote. I was always of the opinion, though I might not often mentioned it that several colors were injudiciously named the term pink in reference to the flower of that name seemed proper enough, but when the term red was substituted for pink, I thought it highly improper. It should have been blue and my ass pension as pink and blue, appear to me very, nearly allied, whilst pink and read, have scarcely any relation He goes on in his introduction to mention how he had learned about light and objects in his scientific studies, but he hadn't really thought about applying any of that information to colors, because that it your area. The idea of color seemed kind of confused and onto them like he really was a guy. Would people group these colours either? Don't make any sense, but I guess that's. How was done it. It was now.
until he turned his scientific work to bought me that he really started thinking about. Why some color groupings just made. No sense in this study prompted him to ask other people questions about colors. He actually uses the example in this paper of asking a person whether a flower was blue or pink, but they always just thought he was you're joking, because the queries came office so completely absurd to them. So he just thought everybody had this weird relationship with color, even though you fat colors made no sense. It didn't really occurred to him. So one if there was something unusual about the way he was perceiving colors. That was a moment and one thousand seven hundred and ninety two, two years before he presented his paper. That really gave him this moment of pause. That movement happened when he was looking at a geranium by candlelight. So he had frequently seen these flowers. This particular variety he was looking at were in fact pink in daylight
and to him in daylight, perceived them as sky Blue, but by candlelight. He saw this flower as a vibrant. Read in this signal. Can shift in their color. Do delighting changes startled him in him to make a quick study by asking a number of friends to look at these same flowers in both daylight and can the way the people he initially asked about it saw them is pink in both living conditions, except for his brother who purse even that same shift of them being Skyblue in the day and read and can delay with experience caused him to start a more structured study of light and color, which he did with an assistant who had quote normal color vision. First, he used a prism two projects, sunlight into a dark room and then recorded the number of colors that various people saw in that band of light. Most of them saw six Red Orange, yellow green blue in purple. He does mention that purple is separated into indigo in
violet and newtons writings on color for the purposes of a person, simply looking at a band of light, that distinction is really nominal. I think we talked about this and whatever episodes that touched on Newton previously, he put them to go. violet in their separately because he wanted there to be seven. That's why people typically don't actually see them as to the state shades, unlike from a prism, yeah or you'll, see what you think is maybe a slight difference, but it's hard to be sure yeah. So for four dull, he just called that one thing: it's purple windows and looked at the prismatic light, though he could only make out to or sometimes three colors so generally You saw yellow and blue, or sometimes he would see, yellow blue and the little bit of purple and through his work he idea I did the band that he saw. His yellow was where other people were seeing red, orange, yellow and green, and he wrote quote that part of the image which
others call red appears to be little more than a shade or a defect of light after that, the orange, yellow and green seem one color which descends pretty uniformly from an intense to arrive. Or yellow making what She called different shades of yellow dullness perception of blue and purple aligned with what other people were seeing and the contrast between the end of his back. yellow and their adjacent blue was really sharp. So next he did the same collecting of perceptions from himself and others when looking at candle light projected through a prism, and these results
Mostly the same. The only exception that Dalton calls out is that for him, the red edge of the image looks more vivid in candlelight than it did looking at some light under the same conditions of being put through a Prism dogs paper. Next breaks out studies of specific colours, as he had always perceived them. He starts out by describing colors group with red, as they appear in the daylight versus candle light. His description of crimson is pretty charming quote. Crimson has a grave appearance, being the reverse of every showy and splendid color, a similarly quite description as his description of pink.
breaks that backbone as nine parts, light blue and one part red quote, or some other color, which has no other effect, then you make the light. Blue appeared dull and faded a little. He also was sat all the flowers that, to him look blue to give the reader a sense of contacts where he says he says: pinks and reds ass, blue blood, he says, appears to have as the color most people call bottle green and he mentions that if he saw a light, colored stocking that was spattered with either fresh blood or dirt, he would not be able to tell the difference visually. I I love this entire paper. So much it's exactly
This stop a hole through his his turn of phrase is quite quite charming. In adhering he goes on to describe the significant change that red undergoes for him when viewed in candlelight. He describes it is much more vivid and the blue no longer being present and instead replaced by yellow tones, while he found most reds and pinks quite drowned by daylight in candlelight, they became really dividend even exciting, orange and yellow he says, are not two different for him than anyone else. When he moves on to discussing green, he writes quote. I take my standard idea from grass. This appears to me very little different from red. The faith of a laurel leaf is a good match to a stick of sealing wax and that will be immediately concluded that I see either read or green or both different from other people. The fact, as I believe that they both appear dick
to me from what they do to others. He concludes that blues be generally sees the same as other people, and purple is just a little bit different from blue. He disk I'm brown in this same creative way that he does other colors rating quote my Idea of Brown. I obtained from a piece of white paper heated almost two ignition. He also knows that seeing Colors in moonlight, presents the same or mere same results for him and seeing them in candlelight lightning gives the same effect as daylight. It doesn't matter whether the sun is rising or setting when it comes to color and any kind of combustible substance creates the same color perception as any other flame. He concludes the section of the paper. With quote my vision,
always been as it is now. His next section breaks out the information that he's collected from other people and their perceptions of color, starting with people he has found who have vision. That seems similar to his own and dolphin mentions Mr Harris of Mary Port and his alternate perceptions of color. Dom thought that, based on the description, Harris's, a novelist vision might have been different from his own. He discovered that what of Harris as brothers was still alive, so he made contact. I went to visit upon questioning this brother and testing his vision, dot and found that the Harris family seem to have the same JANET variable that he and his brother had when it came to how they perceive the colours of the world around them. This led to a general line of questioning of the students and colleagues. The Dalton regularly came in contact with kind of as a subject group, and he found a small problem,
of them shared his specific experience regarding pink and light blue, looking similar by daylight, indifferent by candlelight. Dalton, also found just a couple of examples of people who We differ from the generality and from us also meaning that they seem to have a different type of color vision, deficiency so mentioned a shared experience among all of these people that, just as with him, it had not occurred. To them that they were seeing things differently from the majority of people, but that they too found the name. and groupings of colors perplexing. At times, though, his paper was really the beginning of sciences. Study of color vision deficient,
he, even in his really relatively small dataset Dalton was already capturing information that showed a difference in instances of color vision deficiency in regards to people sex. He noted that in the Harris family for of six sons in the family had what would come to be known as color vision, deficiency, sometimes also called Dalton ISM for obvious reasons, but their sister didn't. Similarly Dalton and his brother Jonathan had the same color experience, but their sister did not he wrote quote. It is remarkable that I have not heard of one female subject. Should this peculiarity. He also included the line quote. I did not find that the parents or children in any of these instances have been so unless, in one case, so
even though he them really realize it. He was gathering information on the recessive genetic nature of red, green color vision deficiency. Next up we'll talk about what Dalton that was causing his anomalous vision, but first we will take a break for we weren't from our sponsor Walt Disney World Resort, is the perfect escape, and now, as an adult, you can experience it in an entirely new way, enjoy the classic attractions you loved as a child like space, mountain at MAGIC Kingdom Park or test track at EPCOT and indulgent experiences that you can appreciate even more as an adult Cindy. castle received, a royal make over the treasured icon at the heart of Walt Disney World Resort was made over with bold shimmering and regal enhancements befitting the most magical place on earth and war
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the third section of dolphins paper tries to unravel the cause of what he was referring to, as quote are a novelist vision, one of the ways He worked out. His theory here was to work with transparent colored liquids, Then he would have various people look at objects through those transparent, colored liquids to record their perception of key so you would hold up a thing behind like a tank of blue water whenever and ask them what they saw and because people as you know, cortical normal vision described color, similar to what he saw in his normal. Day to day life when they looked through a tank of blue water. He came to this incorrect conclusion. That quote, one of the humour of my. I must be a transparent, but colored medium, so constituted as to observe. Red and green raise principally because I obtain nope.
the idea of these in the solar spectrum and to transmit Blue, and other colors more perfectly honestly, with a totally reasonable conclusion based on hundreds Tammy dry, suddenly be outline. How does what impact the perception of various colours and then addressed why the colors change so drastically for him and other will others like him in candlelight? Writing quote when any kind of light is less abundant in blue, as is the case with candle light compared to daylight. Our eyes serve in some degree to temper that light so as to reduce it merely to the common standard. The earth's atmosphere, he believed was a blue fluid. That quote: modifies the sums light so two occasion the commonly perceived difference. So this paper was met with some curiosity and his very detailed comparisons of his vision to that of other people who saw color normally offered.
Of insights. But this idea of a blue humour in his eye that was causing his anomalous color vision was kind of dismissed by the scientific community and in response adulthood really thought he was onto something with it. Donated his eyes to science, be rode up a document, the request, that his eyes be dissected upon his death to see if he had been correct and weather was any other physical evidence to explain the way he perceived color a little less than a decade after dolphins. Writing on his anomalous vision, scientists, Thomas Young, published on the theory of light and colors, and this put forth the idea that there were receptors in the eye for each
colors, red, green and blue. So he was totally onto it and young addressed dolphins, work and whose anomalous color vision with a different theory that there was a quote absence or paralysis of those fibers of the retina which are calculated to perceive red. He was so completely on the right track that you would think that this would have just broken. I science wide open, but no, no, it advancements. oh down after this and studying the eye, and that went on for decades. Yeah was if you weren't need idea, and they moved on to other stuff beyond the study of color vision, deficiency, John Dalton, of course, continue to make important contributions to the scientific world. concurrently, while working on figuring out why he couldn't see flowers the same way as other people. He also published a worked. held meteorological observation and essays published additional work,
immediate ology as well, and his work in this field led to some fellow scientists considering him the Father of Meteorology. Although his work time. Somebody gets called the father of something I want to go because his work was, of course, building on that of his men tours on this subject. He had particularly had a really get mentor in meteorology when he was studying, as a teacher Dalton also did a lot of work in chemistry, specifically atomic theory. His work in this area came to some incorrect conclusions, but it was also instrumental in moving the scientific community away from the long held idea that matter wise the basic level all the same and just configure differently to form different things. damn championed the idea that there were all kinds of different items of different sizes and weights in that they behaved differently. He started approach,
To measure the masses of different atomic particles to begin cataloguing, all of the different Adams that could be found, he presented the first table of atomic weights in eighteen. Oh cream in his work in this area propelled organic chemistry forward. He is also sometimes called the Father of chemistry. Dalton had joined the Manchester Literary and philosophical society in one thousand, seven hundred and ninety three, when he was still in his twenties in one thousand eight hundred and seventeen as a man in his early fifties, he became its president may be held. This position for the rest of his life is terrific career slowed down quite a bit, yet there were some other issues where his he had some papers that were denied for publication in its, as was it like the hey day he had had when he was a little younger, he had the unique distinction, though of seeing. If, for example, is a statue erected in Manchester during his lifetime for his accomplishments and why
he had been barred from an education at Oxford or Cambridge as a young man, because he was a Quaker nodded Anglican. He received your airy degrees from both later in life. He also sir the for an associate of the French Academy of Sciences on April 18th, one thousand eight hundred and thirty seven Dalton. He was seventy at the time had a stroke if it resulted in a partial RO, as this many had another small stroke or possibly a seizure several days later, being pretty pragmatic. He set his affairs in order as soon as he was recovered enough to do so. But then he lived. Another said years. He continued as president of the literary and philosophical society he made visits to leg country, that's something that he had been doing throughout his life You know is a very close call him any kind of like well. I'm still live a minute Do it my living stuff, John Dalton died final on July, twenty, seventh eighteen, forty four, he
really really beloved in Manchester by this point, and he was given a public funeral by the city on August 12th, one thousand eight hundred and forty four, an estimated forty thousand people paid their respects before Dalton was interred the day after Dalton's death on July 28th, one thousand eight hundred and forty four his wishes were carried out. His eyes were dissected. This was done by Dr Joseph Branson, the determine whether this idea about having a blue humor and his eye was correct. Of course, it was not ransom disk describe what he found indulgence. I ass quote perfectly pellucid ransom, also sliced office, section of the posterity or pole of the eye and use that as a lens to see of colors that were viewed through it, especially red and green, and took on a different Hugh, which they did not, but dolphins eyes were not discarded. After that sail for clarity he did. The folder action on when I about little part. He sliced off was from the second I. So he
it only taken the primary samples from one. The other was mostly intact. and the remains of dolphins eyes were preserved and were eventually given to the Manchester Literary and philosophical society that was not the their story, three years after Dalton died and ninety. Ninety five Dna analysis was conducted on his preserved eyes in this. Nomination, determine that he had Dutra Nokia conclusively proving that he had read green color vision deficiency two years after those findings are published in ninety. Ninety seven The eyes were donated to the science and industry. Museum in Manchester may remain in the collection there to this day, yet you have run pictures of him online. In the eighteenth seventies, german anatomists, MAX Schulz identified the rods and codes of the retina deduce that rods were dedicated
night vision and cones to daylight vision, then later in the eighteen seventies, Vill health care and laid the groundwork for a concept of photochemical basis for vision and the eighty nine. These spanish neuroscience, Santiago Ramona, how studied the retina Andrew detailed diagrams of the cells within it? The how scientific drawings are incredibly answer, kit and very beautiful, and they were part of an art exhibit at in. Why you in twenty eighteen year. So you know all of the things that would have explained adult in what was going on came a little too late. There also a cool discovery and ninety ninety one so fairly recently, a new kind of photo receptor was discovered, the ganglion so and that once again, find our knowledge of how the human eye takes in processes visual information with learning
I really really really will have to adopt a story, and I love this part of it I knew a little bit more about you know his work in in establishing the basis of a lot of the chemistry we use, but I didn't I had never read this paper before and I honestly it's the most fun Reed It's very sweet. I will switch gears completely, for our listener may allow. Ok, why am I won't red? Is his mail pretty sure, but I'll summon up. I wanted to say. Todd who wrote us, he was listening to our transfusion episodes while he donated platelets. So thank you Todd for donating platelets. We have had several people write in to make sure that we let people know that donating blood is very important and it is so. This is european aid.
and again thank you Todd, but my actual email that I'm going to read is from our listener. Larissa. I think that's probably how she pronounces it, who writes hi, Ali and Tracy. I've been a fan since two thousand and sixteen and I always look forward to new episodes each week. It helps keep my brain limber, while at home with the kids during locked down, which we are currently experiencing here in Ontario recently, I have been thrilled to make connections between your podcast in my library just finished, reading sherry demolitions empire of Wild, which is a novel set within the matete community of Georgian Bay, Canada in wood. We'll go through plays a major part, the most of the novel it answered the mingling part of my brain. That said rule whereby heard that before was when one of characters leaves thirteen objects on reports to protect herself is a rigorous, can only count to twelve, I'm so curious about how the creature became part of both culture. Surely the link must be the French. This may have set off. The great room.
Ruined restoration of twenty twenty one on my part, investors is yes, we mention, and that of its own other. We didn't go super deep because there's not really documentation of it. That's through guru is kind of a shift from Luger through which is french for werewolf. It seems to have travelled over with french colonists, and french fur trappers kind of became pretty standard in in that area. in the north and then migrated south into Louisiana. That is the best so how it travelled, since we don't have legacy heard documentation. But I love that the rigorous his inability to count beyond a dozen is still relating to laugh because we made it right now, If you like the right do, as you can do so at history pike Ass did I hurt radio dot com? You can also find us, as Mr History everywhere and social media. Do you have not subscribe to the show? Why not even be wearing now it super easy needed on the Iranians. Up and apple pie
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Transcript generated on 2021-01-22.